View Full Version : Movie Battles: Tournament Of Champions HW Division: Round 4, Match 1
ROUND 4, THE SEMI FINALS, of the Tournament Of Champions, Movie Heavy Weight Class, BEGINS!
Our last 4 remaining combatants are among the most powerful this weight class has to offer, and theyve all proven that they deserve to be here in the Final Four (speaking of which, how many of you guessed THIS Final Four way back when?)
Now allow me to present your First Battle in Round 4 of this Heavy Weight Division of the Movie Tournament Of Champions:
DARTH VADER (STAR WARS SERIES)
VS.
T-1000 (T2)
As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them or used in their films, to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.
Randomly Chosen Area:
Industrial/Military Complex - A vast network of highrise office buildings and machine floors. Large rail-yard full of cargo, trains, and loading equipment dominates one side (inspired by Enemy at the Gates, Blade Runner)
Thanks all, and enjoy.
And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.
ALSO, please do your best to respect everyones votes, reasonings and opinions here. If you believe your character should win, but doesnt in the end, dont hold grudges against the character that beat yours, or call the votes that allowed this to happen "fanboy" arguments or plain and simply wrong. We all have our own way of thinking and voting here, with each one of our thoughts and ideas as valid as your own. Lets do what we can, even in the heat of an argument, to respect that. Thanks.
MOVIE TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS PART 3
ROUND 1
Darth Maul vs. TX Terminator: Darth Maul
Treebeard vs. Cain: Cain
Mina Harker vs. Swamp Thing: Mina Harker
Medusa vs. Nomak: Medusa
Hellboy vs. Alien Queen: Hellboy
T-Rex vs. Neo: T-Rex
Spawn vs. Storm: Spawn
Boba Fett vs. The Witch King: The Witch King
Jason X vs. The Scorpion King (Monster): Jason X
Mr. Hyde vs. Dracula: Dracula
Darth Vader vs. King Kong: Darth Vader
T-1000 vs. Profion: T-1000
Mr. Book vs. Shelob: Mr. Book
Gandalf The Grey vs. Gabe Law: Gandalf The Grey
Lord Zed vs. The Lord Marshall: Lord Zed
Mace Windu vs. Agent Smith: Mace Windu
ROUND 2
Darth Maul vs. The Witch King: Darth Maul
Mina Harker vs. Mr. Book: MR. BOOK
Dracula vs. Cain: Dracula
Spawn vs. T-Rex: Spawn
Gandalf the Grey vs. Mace Windu: Mace Windu
T-1000 vs. Lord Zed: T-1000
Hellboy vs. Jason X: Hellboy
Darth Vader vs. Medusa: Darth Vader
ROUND 3
Mace Windu vs. T-1000: T-1000
Mr. Book vs. Dracula: Mr. Book
Hellboy vs. Spawn: Hellboy
Darth Vader vs. Darth Maul: Darth Vader
ROUND 4
Darth Vader vs. T-1000: ??????
Dalandow
08/12/2004, 14:47
T-1000
Dalandow
08/12/2004, 14:48
First Post, hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!
Prof. Aragorn
08/12/2004, 14:57
I don't care anymore, if Mace Windu can't do it because he doesn't have enough armor, then Darth Vader can-also they are fighting in a military complex-something tells me there's something to dispose of the body here. What about force lightning???
Prof. Aragorn
08/12/2004, 14:58
And if you couldn't tell, that vote was for Darth Vader, the second most evil being in all the universe. You want to know who was first?
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 14:59
Actually going to vote Vader, largely due to the environment. He doesn't really bring anything that Mace didn't to hurt the T-1000, however he's not up the creek in this environment.
Vader plays a cat and mouse game with the terminator for a while, slamming it with objects every once and a while to lure it to the machine/industrial floors. There he fights it up on the catwalks at range with the material in the shops, and knocks it into a furnace destroying it (or a large machine press, squashing it, and sealing the sides, effectively incapacitating it for a 10 second period).
In a different environment Vader would die as surely as Mace died, but he has stuff to work with here that could defeat the termi.
Gentlegamer
08/12/2004, 15:01
Darth Vader
Maniac has a good point, I'll go with Vader.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/12/2004, 15:03
Can Vader levitate for any length of time?
I agree, while at first this seems very similiar to the Mace v T-1000 battle, the arena here completely favors Vader, (unfortunately Mace battled the T in the Frozen North), as this was the very environment in the film that the T-1000 was destroyed.
Vader also is an Expert on robotics, having built C-3PO when he was 8, so while the T itself may be foreign to him, the field and area that the T comes from is most certainly not.
Assuming the T1000 is as aware of its own movie as Vader is,
does anyone honestly think it'll go anywhere near any kind of
furnace or melting device?
SpakSpang
08/12/2004, 15:08
Rouge...you took my joke.
Ok, I will vote for T-1000. He is going to a force to be reckonded with and I don't see even Vader being able to take him down. Everything Vader can use to hurt T-1000, T-1000 can use to some degree to hurt Vader as well.
Vader can't just kill him with his force, and the liquid metal is going to be a powerful weapon against Vader.
T-1000 for the win.
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 15:12
Yes, Vader is a much more skilled and experienced warrior then the T-1000 (in terms of skills I mean a larger skill set). If he keeps whacking it with objects it will tend to follow him like a puppy almost.
Then it should be a fairly simple matter for Vader to trick it into an area it will die. From force tk'ing it into a furnace, to something more creative, such as cutting the catwalk in half and force jumping to the other side, and then cutting it off there.
Make no mistake, pound for pound the termi has Vader beat on strength, durability, endurance, etc. It's just he has the ability to defeat it with the materials on hand.
Hah, see, I'm not an anti-starwars fanboy!:laugh:
Ignatz_Mouse
08/12/2004, 15:15
He has more cover here, as well.
I'm not 100%, but I favor Vader at this point.
brendanbrown
08/12/2004, 15:18
I think Maniac has very good points. Vader is cunning, and, having built many machines in his time, including a human-cyborg relations bot. I think he should know how most robots function and will know what buttons to push(no pun intended) to get the T-1000 to follow him to his own doom.
Vote: Darth Vader
Jackygobang
08/12/2004, 15:24
Hm, the environment is a real kick to the junk for the t-1000. If Vader has a stronger connection to the forcwe than anybody, even Dooku, Yoda, and the Emperor, wouldn't that imply that he could use force lightning? Even if he couldnt, a furnace or industrial press would nicely do the job.
65-35 Vader.
Vader has armor also which might help. The environment is his biggest advantage.
Vote: Vader
lukebuchanan
08/12/2004, 15:33
T-1000.
Vader for the win.
The environment provides multiple options for incapacitation and destruction of the T-1000 (unlike the fight against Mace) and Vader is a master of the Dark Side - which actually gives him several options not available to a Jedi like Mace. Force lightning is nice but throwing in outside sources there is a whole realm of force powers that the good guys don't have access to use.
Keeping solely to the films - Vader took out the Emperor so by rules of assumption we can credit him with pretty much anything the Emperor could do - including blasting the T-1000 into shiny liquid bits with pure Force or simply foreseeing the outcome of the battle and playing the machine for a chump.
hail_eris
08/12/2004, 15:40
Yeah, this is the anti-Terminator environment (you'd think they'd know better than to hang around big industrial presses, shield doors, and molten iron vats by now). My vote's for Vader.
Originally posted by Rubix1
Keeping solely to the films - Vader took out the Emperor so by rules of assumption we can credit him with pretty much anything the Emperor could do - including blasting the T-1000 into shiny liquid bits with pure Force or simply foreseeing the outcome of the battle and playing the machine for a chump.
He threw him down a hole.
How does that make him capable of performing ungodly
force powers under the assumption rule?
All that makes me assume is that if the T1000 held it's
shape, then Vader could throw him down a hole.
It's not like Highlander, where he gains his power.
Also, I don't think a press would work on the T1000, unless
it was also water-tight, which I doubt.
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 15:48
Darth Vader.
He can use "Force Lighting" Im sure that could literaly "cook" the T.
But im not sure. A good T argument could sway me.
I say that the throwing down a hole was the Emperor unleashing the full force (sorry, bad pun) of his Sith wrath at Vader - and Vader took it, dumped the old sot down said hole, and moved on. Okay - so he moved on to dying painfully because his suit was messed up but he walked away from the conflict. In the films Vader is known to be the strongest in the force - and this is proven when he rises up and defeats his own master with his bare (cybernetic) hands.
Thus we can assume anything a force user like Palpatine can do (massive lightning, etc) Vader can do as well or better. Rule of the Sith - the apprentice kills the master and then becomes the master. At the bell the refs call it Vader - 1, Emperor - 0.
Originally posted by Rubix1
Vader for the win.
The environment provides multiple options for incapacitation and destruction of the T-1000 (unlike the fight against Mace) and Vader is a master of the Dark Side - which actually gives him several options not available to a Jedi like Mace. Force lightning is nice but throwing in outside sources there is a whole realm of force powers that the good guys don't have access to use.
Keeping solely to the films - Vader took out the Emperor so by rules of assumption we can credit him with pretty much anything the Emperor could do - including blasting the T-1000 into shiny liquid bits with pure Force or simply foreseeing the outcome of the battle and playing the machine for a chump.
Actually, this is not entirely true. One could assume that an equal or higher level character, of similiar powers and abilities, can do something if an inferior character could. Vader I hate to say is inferior to his Master, Palpatine in his powers of the Force, so this wouldnt necessarily be true. If one saw Vader do something, like Force Choke, than it would be OK to Assume the Emperor could do it as well, even if weve never seen the Emperor do so, and we havent.
Weapon Zero
08/12/2004, 16:00
Vader could probably throw the T-1000 into the furnace with the force, and keep him pinned with it.
I vote for Darth Vader.
The Charlatan
08/12/2004, 16:01
Darth Vader, by just a bit. While he doesn't bring much more to the table than Mace did, Vader has a much better environment to play with.
Originally posted by Rubix1
I say that the throwing down a hole was the Emperor unleashing the full force (sorry, bad pun) of his Sith wrath at Vader - and Vader took it, dumped the old sot down said hole, and moved on. Okay - so he moved on to dying painfully because his suit was messed up but he walked away from the conflict. In the films Vader is known to be the strongest in the force - and this is proven when he rises up and defeats his own master with his bare (cybernetic) hands.
Thus we can assume anything a force user like Palpatine can do (massive lightning, etc) Vader can do as well or better. Rule of the Sith - the apprentice kills the master and then becomes the master. At the bell the refs call it Vader - 1, Emperor - 0.
Vader is not the strongest Force User is SW, both Yoda and the Emperor are more powerful than him in that respect. Anakin DID have the Potential to be the strongest, but Palpatine saw to keeping him under his control at his very young age, and keeping him from his potential, since Palpatine hardly needs a Sith who is more powerful than himself.
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 16:09
Could Vader use force lightning.
Isnt he more powerful then Count Doku?
As much as I like Vader, I still have to go with the T-1000 in this one. Vader, while probably having more Force tricks than Windu, is slower and less physically able to handle the T-1000 than Windu was. If anything, Vader will be easier for the T-1000 to harm as he's so reliant on the suit to keep him alive, that damage to the suit could very well be fatal to Vader. I think that the T-1000, knowing its weakness to extreme heat and knowing that Vader can tk, etc. will be staying away from the furnaces. Although Vader has good knowledge of robots, the T-1000 is a totally different machine from any droid in the Star Wars universe.
My vote for the T-1000.
Fat Ninja
08/12/2004, 16:11
I think this is very very close, and could easily go either way, but i think T-1000 will just clinch it. I figure vader can't do much to hurt him, but can do enough to keep him at bay. But for how long? as powerful as he obviously he, vader's still (part) human - he'll tire before the 1000, which >ahem< absolutely will not stop, ever, until he is dead.
T-1000
Standing atop the highest building in the battle zone Lord Vader stands silent vigil. He reaches out with the Force and senses his opponent a mile away, in the direction of another office-type building. Sensing no danger the Dark Lord of the Sith turns and walks to the stairwell exit.
The thrum of heavy machinery reverberates somewhere in the building and Darth Vader is quick to find it. He enters a huge laboratory-style room littered with machines and tools. For just an instant Vader feels a tingle deep inside himself. Something akin to excitement at seeing all the tools and machines and machine parts before him in this large room that nearly takes up the entire length of the floor. Wrapping the Dark Side about himself he quickly buries this feeling from a time long ago.
His mechanical breathing echoes against the machinery as he walks about the lab. He grabs tools and parts and devices during his reconnaisance.
Vader walks over to a large table and lays everything he gathered on top. Picking up a soldering tool he pauses and reaches out with the Force. Satisfied that no danger is near he ernestly begins to work and build and create.
In less than an hour's time Darth Vader climbs the stairs again to the rooftop. He walks over to the edge of the roof and scans the city scape below him. He uses the Force to detect his robotic opponent and senses him nearby, down below. Darth Vader extends his right arm and points downwards. Bright blue electrical Force Lightning sprays from his fingertips splashing the wall of the building.
That should get its attention.
The Dark Lord of the Sith settles down in the middle of the roof in a meditative posture.
A long time passes when Darth Vader feels a familiar tingle of danger at the back of his neck from the Force. Channeling the Force Vader instantly becomes aware of everything around him and all his senses perk to superior levels. He focuses and feels the robot's presence in the stairwell of the rooftop access.
Vader turns toward the door and waits.
Shortly the door bursts open and the silvery form of the T-1000 stands before him. Vader watches with curiousity and special attention as the construct's arms flow and shape into long sword-like blades.
Darth Vader stands silent and menacing as the T-1000 begins to walk towards him. As it nears Vader bends his left arm at the elbow, palm up. The T-1000 pauses only for a second as it notes the black armored person in front of him is holding some type of device. Scanning arrays begin to focus on the device while it continues its march towards him.
Vader presses a button on the slightly larger than palm size device. The device activates and Vader silently hopes that the basic laws of physics and mechanics stand true in the world where the T-1000 originates as his own Galaxy. He has faith, though, that his armor that he improved upon and perfected throughout his life will suffer naught.
The T-1000 freezes in its tracks as it feels the leading edges of the invisible blast strike him. Instantly it recognizes the energy signature as an EMP. In the milliseconds it has left before the Electromagnetic Pulse renders it inert files and memories download and save all data to reserve drives rendering them safe from the harmful and deadly EM Pulse. It knows that it will need a recovery time of 5.1257 minutes for its onboard systems to reset all internal hardware and recover from the EMP.
Vader watches in satisfaction as the Terminator robot drops to the ground- disabled. He walks over to it and grabs his light saber. The red energy blade activates: *snap-hiss*
Squatting over the Terminator, Darth Vader plunges his light saber into its torso and holds it there. The blade penetrates easily and begins to melt the robotic construct. The light saber's plasma blade heats up and a heat wave radiates from the blade. Two minutes pass and the entire torso is disintegrated into an ephemeral energy state. Vader reaches out with the Force and brings the limbs closer to the light saber's blade. Less than two more minutes pass and nearly all of the Terminator droid is destroyed.
Vader closes down his saber and attaches it back to his belt. He then reaches into a secret pocket in his cloak and pulls out a hard, plastic container with a lid that he found in the lab below. He bends forward and scoops the only remaining handful size portion of the T-1000 into the container and seals it.
This advanced droid will guarantee the Empire's victory over the Rebellion.
The Dark Lord of the Sith's mechanical breathing is scattered by the rooftop wind...
Winner: Darth Vader
'Nuff Said.
Excelsior!
Originally posted by Rubix1
I say that the throwing down a hole was the Emperor unleashing the full force (sorry, bad pun) of his Sith wrath at Vader - and Vader took it, dumped the old sot down said hole, and moved on. Okay - so he moved on to dying painfully because his suit was messed up but he walked away from the conflict. In the films Vader is known to be the strongest in the force - and this is proven when he rises up and defeats his own master with his bare (cybernetic) hands.
Thus we can assume anything a force user like Palpatine can do (massive lightning, etc) Vader can do as well or better. Rule of the Sith - the apprentice kills the master and then becomes the master. At the bell the refs call it Vader - 1, Emperor - 0.
This just shows that in his dying moments he was able to
display a high pain threshold.
Force Lightning?
EMP generators?
Armour?
Wha....?
TheUltimates
08/12/2004, 16:29
wow...that story just sealed it for me.
The EMP part is amazing. I would have thought of that maybe...but that is amazing. Your stories of the fights are pretty good.
Vader for the win and the T-1000 couldn't win...unless he got another Helicopter...hahaha.
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 16:38
do they even know what an EMP is? Can't remember anything like that used in any of the movies.
in any other enviornment, I'd of voted T-1000, but in this place, Vader will win.
Wow, I just voted Star Wars, that suprises me.
Originally posted by NotYou
Force Lightning?
All Dark Side Sith are capable of this. Darth Sidious/Palpatine, Darth Tyrannus/Count Dooku from just the movies. DTM said we can make asumptions so... there is my assumption. It didn't impact my battle tale any, though. I just needed an attention getter so the T-1000 would find Vader instead of waiting days for it to search the entire city.
EMP generators?
Darth Vader is gifted in mechanical things. If the Empire can build a Death Star (twice!) I don't find it beyond comprehension that something common like an EMP generator is fanciful.
Armour?
I'm not sure where to go with this. You do know who Darth Vader is, right? Big guy? In black armor? :confused: :D
Wha....?
Originally posted by TheUltimates
...Your stories of the fights are pretty good...
Thank you very much! :classic:
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 17:00
maybe, maybe not, since an emp is never used in starwars, nor are atomic weapons, I don't think it's fair to have Vader building one. That's a REAL BIG stretch of the imagination.
It's not like he needs one anyways, the T-1000 will go into an area that can destroy it, it already has with no compunctions. Vader can goad it into combat in such an area.
Then a machine press will flatten it, and effectively ko it for 10 seconds, or a furnace will melt it, if you could get it into it's liquid metal form (ie it's not mimicing human skin, clothing) then perhaps a suitable electrical shock could short it for 10 seconds (such as force lighting on a number of high power machines, causing them to arc between each other and short out).
Black suit, yes.
I've never thought of it as armour.
What sources do you have for its armour like properties?
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
do they even know what an EMP is? Can't remember anything like that used in any of the movies.
I never saw Darth Vader build his light saber, but I acknowledge that he had to in order to complete his Jedi training. An EMP generator is high tech in our world (although not really anymore), but Vader comes from a Galaxy that can build Death Stars and have light speed conveyances. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. ;)
Originally posted by Magnito
in any other enviornment, I'd of voted T-1000, but in this place, Vader will win.
Wow, I just voted Star Wars, that suprises me.
The environment clinched it for me. If Vader got stuck in the arctic like Mace Windu I would have eventually had the T-1000 winning.
I was kind of hoping for a construction site with a large foundation of freshly poured concrete for this battle. Vader would have forced chucked the Terminator into the center and just held him in the middlw until the concrete eventually hardened.
green_knight
08/12/2004, 17:11
Well, in the Star Wars roleplaying game they have ion cannons that short out electronics. Usually used for ships, but I'm sure the loveable Anakin who built droids and piloted ships better than ANYONE IN THE UNIVERSE at age 9 could do it. Probably just with parts from his own body.
Man, Vader rules, but Anakin annoys me as much as Jar Jar. I hope they get beaten up by ewoks, who I also hate, but to a lesser extent.
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
maybe, maybe not, since an emp is never used in starwars, nor are atomic weapons, I don't think it's fair to have Vader building one. That's a REAL BIG stretch of the imagination.
Well... then Vader could have just built a Restraining Bolt and attached it to the T-1000 with the Force and it would be rendered inert.
T-1000, this enviorment still isnt enough for Vader to do any lasting damage to the T1000, specially since the T1000 had just managed to beat mace. The terrain pull helps vader a little, but not enough.
Vote-T1k
Originally posted by NotYou
Black suit, yes.
I've never thought of it as armour.
What sources do you have for its armour like properties?
Well... since it had no impact on the battle whatsoever we can just say Vader was standing there in his skivvies. :laugh:
But, in all seriousnes, it is armor. Vader needs it to functionally survive since the lava nearly killed him in Episode III.
Originally posted by ro_gan
Well... since it had no impact on the battle whatsoever we can just say Vader was standing there in his skivvies. :laugh:
But, in all seriousnes, it is armor. Vader needs it to functionally survive since the lava nearly killed him in Episode III.
I agree, it is keeping him alive...that much was made quite
obvious in RotJ, but I still don't see any reason to believe
it offers any protection in the same way that Fett's suit does
for instance.
Mr_Clicky
08/12/2004, 17:26
Vader wins.
Oooh, next match is Mr.Book vs HellBoy :)
DeonBeast
08/12/2004, 17:26
Ok... seriously... EMP generator? And a directional one at that? Riiiiiiiight...
Vader didn't DESIGN the Death Star, he just commanded it. Made some droids, yes... liquid metal is FAR more advanced than anything in the Star Wars galaxy (although a case could be made for force fields and lightsabers... the physics are scary on those...).
Now... Mind tricks and force choke are out. Robot.
Flicking the 'off' switch is out. T-1000 doesn't have one. (And no flying into the mainframe ship and disabling all the droids like in Episode I).
Force. It will work. For a time. If he can find something to shove the T-1000 into to incapacitate him, he could win. If he doesn't find a means to finish off the T-1000 in the environment he is left with one option...
Lightsaber. It hacks, it cuts, it slices... but riddle me this... what if the T-1000 took on the properties of a mirror... his shiny exterior. Metal and reflective. If the lightsaber is based on a laser technology, it would be useless. No defense/offense for Vader. How long would Vader be able to Force the T-1000 back? Odds went definitely in the T-1000's favour.
I'll place a vote for the T-1000.
Originally posted by NotYou
I agree, it is keeping him alive...that much was made quite
obvious in RotJ, but I still don't see any reason to believe
it offers any protection in the same way that Fett's suit does
for instance.
Either way, the armor had nothing to do with protecting him in my battle tale. I mentioned it solely so that everyone knew that coming from a world of hi-tech Vader would have ensured his suit was EMP protected among other things (i.e.: Restraining Bolts and Ion Cannons/Blasters).
I wasn't even going to mention it but I knew someone would argue that Vader would disable himself with the EM Pulse.
hail_eris
08/12/2004, 17:34
Originally posted by NotYou
I agree, it is keeping him alive...that much was made quite
obvious in RotJ, but I still don't see any reason to believe
it offers any protection in the same way that Fett's suit does
for instance.
Yeah, I always thought of it as a really sinister looking iron lung as opposed to offering any real protective qualities. Jedi (light or dark) on the whole aren't very big on body armour. There are all kinds available, yet they still prize the freedom of movement that comes with a simple robe. And let us all sit back for a moment and respect the Fett for his ability to infiltrate every discussion on these threads. Someone will figure out how to bring him up in the SHW round...
Originally posted by DeonBeast
Ok... seriously... EMP generator? And a directional one at that? Riiiiiiiight...
I never implied it was directional. I even stated Vader's armor had pre-existing devices in it that would ensure it wasn't also disabled by the EMP.
Originally posted by hail_eris
And let us all sit back for a moment and respect the Fett for his ability to infiltrate every discussion on these threads. Someone will figure out how to bring him up in the SHW round...
:p :p :p :p
SpakSpang
08/12/2004, 17:43
Darth Vader isn't Anakin Skywalker anymore. He is a monster. A mechanical Man that is more machine than man.
I do not think it is fair to ASSUME that Vader has these skills or would use them.
What we do know is that Vader has shown some of the most impressive uses of the force in the ability to TK many objects at the same time while fighting. He is a highly skilled Saber fighter. He also can take massive amounts of damage.
I don't think Vader is going to be building huge weapons or items to use in this fight. It is completely out of character.
If anybody is ruling a Vader win on the above pretense I think that is a misjudgement.
T-1000 I think is going to be hard to beat in this enviroment. He can literally morph or blend into so much of the enviroment that Vader isn't going to know where he is. He can take hits from the Light Saber and be ok. Or atleast a few hits, perhaps many. Very little that Vader can TK will really hurt the T-1000. All of you are assuming that T-1000 will just walk or be lured into a furance of some sort. Well, it is just as likely that T-1000 will get a Stealth Kill before that happens.
And A Press I don't think would kill T-1000. It may slow him down, but he could just turn to liquid form and seep through the cracks between the Presses.
Hell...Fett just goes wherever the jet pack flies him.
We all know he can barely control it.
I believe that even if Vader could build an EMP, it would be safe to assume that the T-1000 is immune to them. In our day and age today, we have EMP technology. One would think that if they were so effective, we wouldn't have a problem using them against Skynet's machines in the future. However, in the future, humans must fight the machines with non-emp weapons, which leads me to believe that Skynet has long made itself and its machines immune to them. Therefore, I would think that the T-1000 is immune to EMP blasts.
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 18:02
Good point.
Its also hard to imagine the T-1000 not finding Vader within a hours time.
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 18:03
due to the T's sensors/scanning abilities. I figure he could locate Vader quickly. I just cant see the T leaving Vader alone for a hour.
Was a great read tho, keep it up. It was how he saw the fight going, not how it WILL go, we are all entitled to belive what we want about the fights. So dont go berating him cause he gave us a nice piece of fiction. Simply state how you think the fight would go and move on. His storys are just a way to entertain and cast his vote at the same time.
Nighthawk
08/12/2004, 18:11
Vader. the environment does it
Originally posted by Goose
Was a great read tho, keep it up. It was how he saw the fight going, not how it WILL go, we are all entitled to belive what we want about the fights. So dont go berating him cause he gave us a nice piece of fiction. Simply state how you think the fight would go and move on. His storys are just a way to entertain and cast his vote at the same time.
Good point.
I disagree with some of the details, but thanks for putting
the effort in Ro-gan.
brendanbrown
08/12/2004, 18:19
What were those blue ball things that the gungans were throwing in Ep. 1? I always thought of those as kind of a ball that, when it broke, released an EMP-type wave. Anyone know what these were?
NickFury15
08/12/2004, 18:31
Sigh. See, this is why I don't like the idea of using books as source material. There are arguements that Darth could throw freaking trains at the T-1000 to stop him. In the movies, you didn't see Darth do anything like that (I don't recall him ever even using TK in the films). Yoda lifted the X-Wing, but I don't think he would be able to throw it very far with his mind.
I think people have been overdoing the Jedi tricks. From what I can tell, a Jedi is fortunate to have a fancy sword, because if not, goodbye.
darthfatty
08/12/2004, 18:34
Vader. Is there even a question?
This is almost like T-1000 vs. Magneto
DeonBeast
08/12/2004, 18:35
Originally posted by brendanbrown
What were those blue ball things that the gungans were throwing in Ep. 1? I always thought of those as kind of a ball that, when it broke, released an EMP-type wave. Anyone know what these were?
I like to think of those as STUPID!
And how did the G-word get past the profanity filter...
Rokk_Krinn
08/12/2004, 18:38
Originally posted by green_knight
Well, in the Star Wars roleplaying game they have ion cannons that short out electronics.
They also appeared in the movies - those big surface-to-orbit cannons that protected the Rebels flight from Hoth were ion cannons. Easiest way to think of them is "directional EMP". The B-wing fighters also pack them.
hail_eris
08/12/2004, 18:45
Originally posted by NickFury15
In the movies, you didn't see Darth do anything like that (I don't recall him ever even using TK in the films).
I think people have been overdoing the Jedi tricks. From what I can tell, a Jedi is fortunate to have a fancy sword, because if not, goodbye.
Vader (more accurately, a bunch of stagehands) threw random junk at Luke during the Bespin battle. He also did the thrown lightsaber trick to take out a catwalk. The full Jedi skill set was pretty much limited to the special effects available at the time. That's why you see Force Jump (in ESB), but not Force Speed (until Ep. 1). No reason to hamstring Darth simply because the early movies didn't have pointless CGI in every lousy shot...
Jackygobang
08/12/2004, 18:54
Well, here's a case for Vader's armor working like, well, armor.
In ESB, he deflects blaster bolts. With his hands. WITH HIS FREAKING HANDS. That might just be because his hands are some uber metal, but his whole body is pretty much covered in the most dangerous iron lung in the universe.
Can anyone tell me how on earth he did that without it being somehow linked to his armor?
He used the Force?
Else why use his hand at all?
coyotejack
08/12/2004, 18:56
Originally posted by DeonBeast
Lightsaber. It hacks, it cuts, it slices... but riddle me this... what if the T-1000 took on the properties of a mirror... his shiny exterior. Metal and reflective. If the lightsaber is based on a laser technology, it would be useless. No defense/offense for Vader. How long would Vader be able to Force the T-1000 back? Odds went definitely in the T-1000's favour.
You know, I think this clinched the vote for me. I think the T-1000 may offer some serious resistance to a sabre. Also, I don't know how well Vader could force hold the T. He can just continually change his shape which would make it rather difficult.
T-1000 for the win.
If Mirrors stopped lasers/sabers don't you think they would use them in the movies. The Saber has a few similarities to a laser sure, but it is much more powerful.
NickFury15
08/12/2004, 19:12
If you couldn't tell DTM, I am voting for the T-1000
I vote Vader
I'm voting Vader for now, but the wild misrepresentation of him, and his powers in general, will probably irritate me enough to change my vote before the round is over.
hail_eris
08/12/2004, 19:25
The "blade" is a concentrated beam of light (and, thus, heat) constrained by a force field. The field is what determines the length of the blade (as light tends to go on forever unless acted upon by an outside force or object) and allows fun stuff like blaster bolt deflection. Now, as the containment field is a resonating energy barrier, a lightsaber is exactly the kind of weapon that liquid metal could not deal with. T-1000 might be a rock star against concussive weapons and simple kinetic energy attacks, but the lightsaber would play merry hell with his structure at an atomic level. Think of it not so much as a laser, as it's much more a sort of focused disintegration wand. When Qui-Gon went after the blast door in Ep. 1, he wasn't so much melting it as he was breaking it down from the inside out (like the world's most powerful microwave oven). Ever put a CD or a piece of tinfoil in a microwave? They get wrecked. That's what happens to T-1000. Voosh, voosh, a shower of sparks, and Vader spends the next fifteen minutes imitating a curling sweeper, chasing around bits of Robert Patrick with the end of his blade...
Let's keep this simple. Vader is very good with TK - the T-1000 has shown no defense against TK. The environment is very dangerous for both combatants (but near identical to the one that puts an end to Terminators in the films) - the T-1000 and T-800 have not shown a lot of self-preservation skills in their respective movies when pursuing their targets. So it is safe to assume that the T-1000 will attempt to kill Vader, end up fighting in a very dangerous location, and perhaps become open to a TK shove into a furnace, or press, or other trap that can immobilize or kill it.
Given the basic situation I believe Vader trumps the T-1000 at least 60% of the time if not more.
Silver Lantern
08/12/2004, 19:35
There is no cat and mouse game here. Does anyone remember how fast the T-1000 can move/run?
The T-1000 will slice through vader the way Obi-wan sliced Maul.
I vote T-1000 after a tough fight. He is just SO MUCH MORE INVULNERABLE than Vader is. This isn't the clone war cartoons either (where the Jedi do impossible stuff).
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 20:12
What about Vaders ability to use Force Lightning...
Could he melt the T with a sustained blast of lightning?
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 20:16
no, but kinetic energy weapons (ie tk'd weapons) will slow the terminator down. That's why they bother shooting it.
Vader can slam it with something while backing off, slam it again, slam it again, keeping it's top end down untill they get where the battle needs to happen.
Then tk push it into whatever trap he's laid out, or use his saber to destroy the environment arround him (cutting through catwalks, ladders, support columns, whatever) and force it into the trap that way.
This environement has
a. items lying about to be tk'd that the frozen north didn't
b. items/places where the T-1000 can be destroyed, which the frozen north didn't.
In which case it becomes a solving the problem outside the box. Nothing Vader is internally packing will take out the T-1000, but using the surrounding environment he can. Much like the T-800 did.
In another environment, Vader would have no options, and die just like Mace, but here he has lots of options meaning it doesn't have to come down to a straight up punching fest.
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 20:28
Just out of curiosity (I'm not a SW buff)
If Senator Palpitine(Or whatever) was just a senator, how did he become so powerful with the force.?
Originally posted by JesseJames
Just out of curiosity (I'm not a SW buff)
If Senator Palpitine(Or whatever) was just a senator, how did he become so powerful with the force.?
He wasn't just a Senator.
He was a guy who was trying to get power.
Politics and the Dark Side.
A combo that most would say go hand in hand.
Angelofhate
08/12/2004, 20:57
Vader.
OpalScion
08/12/2004, 20:58
Originally posted by JesseJames
Just out of curiosity (I'm not a SW buff)
If Senator Palpitine(Or whatever) was just a senator, how did he become so powerful with the force.?
i believe he was a sith lord long before infiltrating the republic government. Right under the nose of the jedi council too. hard to see the dark side is. i could very well be wrong about that, as i have no idea where or how he was trained.
oh, and i vote for vader.
VandalSavage
08/12/2004, 21:04
I vote...Darth Vader!
Mr. Savage
darkphoenix226
08/12/2004, 21:07
I don't understand how people can think Vader doesn't have the skills to build something. My god, if he, with limited resources and money, mind you, can build C-3PO at that kind of age, then he can build something right now.
I like what someone said earlier. This is like Magneto vs. T-1000
(LOL on I love the 80s, the Original terminator was just on there!)
darkphoenix226
08/12/2004, 21:09
(Oh, btw, that was a vote for Vader, JIC you didn't know)
t-1000
for all the reaons listed in the match vs mace.
only this time theres the chance the fight could take place in a room in one of the high rise office buildings.
less space for vader to tk the pieces, the faster the t-1000 reforms.
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 21:21
Originally posted by darkphoenix226
I don't understand how people can think Vader doesn't have the skills to build something. My god, if he, with limited resources and money, mind you, can build C-3PO at that kind of age, then he can build something right now.
I like what someone said earlier. This is like Magneto vs. T-1000
(LOL on I love the 80s, the Original terminator was just on there!)
no, there are those of us saying he can't build an EMP. Ion Cannons are great big things, not something Vader can build here (not to mention no way to make the specilized parts to build anything super advanced, remember to build C-3PO he had access to all manner of parts through Watto).
he's not a god, he can't magic parts into existance.
Also, at least from the movies, Vader had never exhibited any ability to do force lightning. Just because other Sith can doesn't necessarily mean that it's a common Sith power. Another Dark Force user that I would also assume could not use Force Lightning would be Darth Maul, for example, as he also never showed any ability to do so.
Originally posted by darkphoenix226
I don't understand how people can think Vader doesn't have the skills to build something. My god, if he, with limited resources and money, mind you, can build C-3PO at that kind of age, then he can build something right now.
I like what someone said earlier. This is like Magneto vs. T-1000
(LOL on I love the 80s, the Original terminator was just on there!)
Well in this situation he has even more limited resources
and money, and frankly I find it fairly ridiculous that after
developing jedi/sith skills for the past 40 odd years of his
life, he would revert to tricks he last used as an 8 year old.
An 8 year old that worked in a robot/ship parts shop.
Wherever did he get the parts to build c3po on his limited
resources/budget?
JesseJames
08/12/2004, 21:27
I enjoyed the story.
But I just cant see the T allowing Vader the time to build the thing to begin with. The T gets a objective, he follows through...he doesnt fiddle fart around.
Still, Vader has the terrain advantage, and could probably just TK giant objects around until the cows came home. Plus I still am thinking that a sustained Force Lightning attack could do some serious damage.
____
I just thought of smething...If Vader can TK a car, why couldnt he just TK peoples arms off, or decapatate them by TKing thier head off...
????
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 22:00
there is also the argument that an emp or just force lightning might not work unless it's in it's native state.
1. The machines come back through the time machine, now no mechanical device can be brought back through. The T-800 can because it has flesh and blood over the machine inside, allowing it to pass through. Thus the T-1000 must also be able to somehow nullify the charge by changing it's surface to some sort of flesh and blood material.
2. If EMPs worked against them, the resistance in the future would have a cake walk against the machines. A satchel charge emp would nuke an entire machine army. I mean, after all even small scale nukes act as a localized EMP. In fact some of our nuclear missles were designed to generate a large scale emp blast.
A signifigant charge could affect them (such as the particle accelerator in T3), but that's a big bloody charge. Not something you can pack arround easy. Now I voted for Vader, and still am, but let's not get crazy with stuff.
Vader also is an Expert on robotics, having built C-3PO when he was 8, so while the T itself may be foreign to him, the field and area that the T comes from is most certainly not
That's a good point. He may even be able to jury-rig something that could help (like removing the focusing crystal from his lightsaber and basically converting it to a tazer, then stick it deep into the T-1000 and turn it on, which could be more disruptive than normal force lighting even), if it came to it. Although most likely, he'd focus on force-pushing it into a deadly hazard.
Vader, for the moment.
WakandaMan
08/12/2004, 22:41
You know...
...I really don't like the way that terrain is often relied upon to effect a KO. Personally, I believe that terrain here should be treated the same way that it is in Heroclix in that it effects the way that battle occurs (ie. the amount of hindering terrain present to effect stealthy characters, and the amount of blocking terrain) but shouldn't be relied upon for the win.
These fights are about two opponents fighting, using their inherent skills...not trying to find some lucky piece of machinery or terrain feature that may or may not be there (since none of us can honestly say exactly what is available, or even if the keys are in the ignition ;)).
That said, I will vote for the T-1000. I don't believe that Vader will defeat it without the aid of external factors.
man i had no idea vader relied on his macguyver like skills so often in the movies.
:cross-eye
Originally posted by WakandaMan
You know...
...I really don't like the way that terrain is often relied upon to effect a KO. Personally, I believe that terrain here should be treated the same way that it is in Heroclix in that it effects the way that battle occurs (ie. the amount of hindering terrain present to effect stealthy characters, and the amount of blocking terrain) but shouldn't be relied upon for the win.
Of course, using terrain to take out Terminators is pretty much completely in theme ;)
Maniac_nmt
08/12/2004, 23:02
Originally posted by WakandaMan
You know...
...I really don't like the way that terrain is often relied upon to effect a KO. Personally, I believe that terrain here should be treated the same way that it is in Heroclix in that it effects the way that battle occurs (ie. the amount of hindering terrain present to effect stealthy characters, and the amount of blocking terrain) but shouldn't be relied upon for the win.
These fights are about two opponents fighting, using their inherent skills...not trying to find some lucky piece of machinery or terrain feature that may or may not be there (since none of us can honestly say exactly what is available, or even if the keys are in the ignition ;)).
That said, I will vote for the T-1000. I don't believe that Vader will defeat it without the aid of external factors.
I dunno, I've seen a lot of heroclix games come down to terrain, and it's use. Much like Mechwarrior or Warhammer 40k, terrain can be a huge part of the game.
Seen many 40k games won or lost on terrain, thanks to choke or funnel points. Shooting armies that funnel their opponent into their guns, or small marine assault armies holding choke points and keeping the opposing numbers down that way. Rhino Rush armies that sneak in under cover and then obliterate you in one turn because your firepower could not be brought to bare.
Stealth'd Outwitters that cripple an opponent, or indoor terrain making HSS all that much nastier.
Terrain is huge under the right circumstances, like oh say, this match (shoot, terrain was the key to defeating Napoleon at Waterloo, or the Spartans holding close to a million men when they only numbered 300)
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
or the Spartans holding close to a million men when they only numbered 300)
Anyone hear how the film of Thermopolae (sp?) is going?
Spartans rule.
VandalSavage
08/13/2004, 00:14
As DTM as stated a few different times...Just because Vader is not shown to use the force Lightning but others have of equal skill then it is safe to to say he has it. Plus I believe the light saber would not only seperate the T-1000 but destroy the part it touches....A bullet was going through the metal...the lightsaber would destroy the metal much like molten lava would.
Mr. Savage
Rokk_Krinn
08/13/2004, 00:45
While I definitely think Vader should be able to take this battle - especially using the environment - there are a couple things I have to disagree with as voiced by his backers.
1) I took force lightning to be one of the major be-all dark side powers that you achieved only as the highest of the high and at the sacrifice of learning more physical skills (which, let's be honest, isn't Vader/Anakin's style). IE: Basically only the Emperor could use force lightning (otherwise, why didn't Vader use it at some point?). Yes, DTM's rule says you can expect someone to be able to use skills exhibited by a lesser individual but the Emperor is above Vader, not inferior.
2) If EMP's worked against the assorted Terminators it would've been pretty dumb of Skynet to decimate the planet using nuclear strikes (something that create EMP's in otherwords).
Perfectstorm
08/13/2004, 00:48
Well the probelm was the metal mixed with the T-1000 screwing him up, not the actual melting.
By the way, The T-1000 is designed to go back in time, and kill a renegade robot. He is ment to get around any tracking system, and ment to take down robots. T-1000 needs little more then one suicide charge, to take them both out. Vader doesn't heal up, his life support gives out, and he dies. T-1000 can afford to take the light saber slash, and the TK hits, but Vader can't afford the slash across his life system.
1) I took force lightning to be one of the major be-all dark side powers that you achieved only as the highest of the high and at the sacrifice of learning more physical skills (which, let's be honest, isn't Vader/Anakin's style). IE: Basically only the Emperor could use force lightning (otherwise, why didn't Vader use it at some point?). Yes, DTM's rule says you can expect someone to be able to use skills exhibited by a lesser individual but the Emperor is above Vader, not inferior.
Hmm... what of Dooku? I'm of the opinion that he's beneath Vader.
Also, Vader does have some armor. In Empire, he got a glancing blow from Luke that bounces right off his shoulder guard leaving a small scorch mark. An attack by a metal stabbing weapon, likewise, is not sure of working unless it has a fair amount of force (i.e. not dodged/avoided/parried).
VandalSavage
08/13/2004, 01:59
Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
1) I took force lightning to be one of the major be-all dark side powers that you achieved only as the highest of the high and at the sacrifice of learning more physical skills (which, let's be honest, isn't Vader/Anakin's style). IE: Basically only the Emperor could use force lightning (otherwise, why didn't Vader use it at some point?). Yes, DTM's rule says you can expect someone to be able to use skills exhibited by a lesser individual but the Emperor is above Vader, not inferior.
There are only 2 Sith at any one time...Dooku being a Sith at the time of the Emperor puts Dooku at the same level that Vader was at the time of ESB, So if Dooku has force Lightning then all reason says Vader has it...I think Vader just considers it the lazy way of dealing with opponents when he would rather cut them down with his saber!!
Mr. Savage
I assume that most Jedi can do things like block blaster shots or tk because we see them doing that as a very integral part of their training. In the Sith, we assume they learn similar skills and some of that is shown by the Sith blocking shots and tking as well. However, out of the 4 Sith we've seen, only two have been shown to use Force Lightning. To me, I see Vader as having gone down another track in his Force powers, not using the Force Lightning at all, but instead focusing more on his lightsaber skills.
WakandaMan
08/13/2004, 02:33
Yeah actually Grinner, it was the fact that Terminator's are always beaten by terrain that got me thinking about it. In every terminator movie, the terminator is beaten by a lesser opponent because they got lucky with a terrain pull....
...to me this means that just about any of the Lightweights could beat any of the terminators if they got this terrain pull, provided they have half a brain. I know this isn't really the way they've been played, but the TOC should be about which opponent would beat the tar out of the other one, not which one can get lucky with the terrain, IMO.
Now, I can see the importance of terrain, and how it can certainly effect the outcome of some match-ups, since terrain has a big effect on characters with stealth, flight, ranged attacks, super strength, leap/climb...etc. However, I don't think terrain in and of itself should be able to be used to cause a KO- just like the Space station has been ruled as unbreachable so that a character who can survive in a vacuum can't just punch a hole in the side of it.
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
I dunno, I've seen a lot of heroclix games come down to terrain, and it's use. Much like Mechwarrior or Warhammer 40k, terrain can be a huge part of the game.
Seen many 40k games won or lost on terrain, thanks to choke or funnel points. Shooting armies that funnel their opponent into their guns, or small marine assault armies holding choke points and keeping the opposing numbers down that way. Rhino Rush armies that sneak in under cover and then obliterate you in one turn because your firepower could not be brought to bare.
Stealth'd Outwitters that cripple an opponent, or indoor terrain making HSS all that much nastier.
Terrain is huge under the right circumstances, like oh say, this match (shoot, terrain was the key to defeating Napoleon at Waterloo, or the Spartans holding close to a million men when they only numbered 300)
Indeed. I have won clix games myself using terrain to my advantage- causing a bottleneck in a room in an indoor map for example... however it is never the terrain by itself that causes the win, it is merely one factor that most of the time either side could potentially exploit in their favour. There are no boiling lava pits on clix maps that make your characters get KOed (of course , that might change once he get Battle Condition cards). The only way terrain can hurt you of itself is by knockback, but this is only by chance and if you don't have damage reducers at that...or Force Blast, which is usually laughingly easy to see coming.
In most of your examples, terrain was only a factor because of inherent abilities that the characters had in themselves, not the terrain by itself. Terrain should not be able to cause lethal effects.
Originally posted by NotYou
Black suit, yes.
I've never thought of it as armour.
What sources do you have for its armour like properties?
Not sure if this was brought up as yet, but in ESB, Luke actually hit Vader in the shoudler with his lightsaber, which while hurt Vader (and made him MAD enough to quickly cut Lukes hand off in return) it didnt go right thru him, as a lightsaber will do to many other durable substances. Therefore Vaders armor must provide him a pretty good level of protection.
Originally posted by hail_eris
Yeah, I always thought of it as a really sinister looking iron lung as opposed to offering any real protective qualities. Jedi (light or dark) on the whole aren't very big on body armour. There are all kinds available, yet they still prize the freedom of movement that comes with a simple robe. And let us all sit back for a moment and respect the Fett for his ability to infiltrate every discussion on these threads. Someone will figure out how to bring him up in the SHW round...
Actually, Boba Fett piloting Slave I is a combatant in the SHW battles.
No, not really.......although. :p
Originally posted by NickFury15
Sigh. See, this is why I don't like the idea of using books as source material. There are arguements that Darth could throw freaking trains at the T-1000 to stop him. In the movies, you didn't see Darth do anything like that (I don't recall him ever even using TK in the films). Yoda lifted the X-Wing, but I don't think he would be able to throw it very far with his mind.
I think people have been overdoing the Jedi tricks. From what I can tell, a Jedi is fortunate to have a fancy sword, because if not, goodbye.
Im pretty sure everything thats here supporting Vader is from the actual movies, original and prequels, not from any other source materials.
Originally posted by Jackygobang
Well, here's a case for Vader's armor working like, well, armor.
In ESB, he deflects blaster bolts. With his hands. WITH HIS FREAKING HANDS. That might just be because his hands are some uber metal, but his whole body is pretty much covered in the most dangerous iron lung in the universe.
Can anyone tell me how on earth he did that without it being somehow linked to his armor?
According to the Decipher SW CCG, Vader actually used the Force to create a Force Field (no pun intended) to block Hans shots. Not sure if thats stated anywhere else, and not saying its SW canon either.
So I was wondering... is Obi-Wan's skin armor-like then because he managed to not get his limbs detached by Dooku's lightsaber? ;)
Originally posted by JesseJames
I enjoyed the story.
But I just cant see the T allowing Vader the time to build the thing to begin with. The T gets a objective, he follows through...he doesnt fiddle fart around.
Still, Vader has the terrain advantage, and could probably just TK giant objects around until the cows came home. Plus I still am thinking that a sustained Force Lightning attack could do some serious damage.
____
I just thought of smething...If Vader can TK a car, why couldnt he just TK peoples arms off, or decapatate them by TKing thier head off...
????
Because he has a Lightsaber, which can do the exact same thing, and look cooler doing so? :)
I dont think dooku was going for the dismemberment, i think he did it to anakin to teach the youngin a lesson. I think dooku is the type that wants the jedi to join him, not to destroy the jedi.
Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
While I definitely think Vader should be able to take this battle - especially using the environment - there are a couple things I have to disagree with as voiced by his backers.
1) I took force lightning to be one of the major be-all dark side powers that you achieved only as the highest of the high and at the sacrifice of learning more physical skills (which, let's be honest, isn't Vader/Anakin's style). IE: Basically only the Emperor could use force lightning (otherwise, why didn't Vader use it at some point?). Yes, DTM's rule says you can expect someone to be able to use skills exhibited by a lesser individual but the Emperor is above Vader, not inferior.
2) If EMP's worked against the assorted Terminators it would've been pretty dumb of Skynet to decimate the planet using nuclear strikes (something that create EMP's in otherwords).
Count Dooku, a Sith Lord as Vader is, as well as being inferior to Palpatine, also used Force Lightning. I believe it is this instance, not the Emperor being able to use this, is what most of the pro Vader Force Lightning arguments are coming from.
Originally posted by Esper3k
So I was wondering... is Obi-Wan's skin armor-like then because he managed to not get his limbs detached by Dooku's lightsaber? ;)
It seemed pretty obvious to me that Dooku wasnt trying to remove Obi Wans limbs with his attacks, as the shots on his arm and leg were knicks, lightsaber scratches, nothing more.
Darth Vader - 28 votes
T-1000 Terminator - 12 votes
discombobulous
08/13/2004, 03:25
I don't think Vader's armor is doing anything to protect him from the T. When the T-1000 stabbed Sarah Connor through the shoulder in the steel mill, it looked as if his spike went into the metal behind her...into the metal.
That tells me he can stab pretty freaking hard.
Though it'll be a tough battle, I think the T-1000 takes it.
For those interested in rpg stats, the D20 system does not list Force Lightning as one of Vader's abilities, I'm not sure about the Westend one. I suspect that Vader blocking that blaster bolt was him useing the force to absorb the energy in a fashion similar to Yoda absorbing Dooku's force lightining.
I'm in favor of the terrain being able to provide the kill. I think that allows characters to draw upon things like ingenuity (which is an inherent trait), and which is otherwise difficult to factor in to matches.
forget Boba Fett, if anyone from Star Wars should be in the SHW with his ship it should be Han Solo with the Millenium Falcon. Now that I think about it that is an really cool idea, that and that ship and pilot from "The Last Starfighter".
I don't think Vader's armor is doing anything to protect him from the T. When the T-1000 stabbed Sarah Connor through the shoulder in the steel mill, it looked as if his spike went into the metal behind her...into the metal.
That tells me he can stab pretty freaking hard.
Well, against glancing hits, it's still gonna help (that's one of the primary advantages of armor, really- it's actually not too hard to piece it if it's stationary, and backed against something so it doesn't move. Most of the time, it deflects more than anything else). A direct strong attack like that, yea, it's going to cause some damage.
Originally posted by Perfectstorm
Well the probelm was the metal mixed with the T-1000 screwing him up, not the actual melting.
By the way, The T-1000 is designed to go back in time, and kill a renegade robot. He is ment to get around any tracking system, and ment to take down robots. T-1000 needs little more then one suicide charge, to take them both out. Vader doesn't heal up, his life support gives out, and he dies. T-1000 can afford to take the light saber slash, and the TK hits, but Vader can't afford the slash across his life system.
Therein lies the rub.
The T-1000 was programmed to terminate John Connor. NOT Darth Vader.
These ToCs pluck the combatants from their respective time periods and then places them back after the battles are over.
During this battle the T-1000 will do whatever is necessary to stay functional (i.e.: alive) so it can accomplish its programmong: terminate John Connor.
Doing a suicide run against Vader would not be logical nor an option.
Also:
In reply to someone who mentioned that in my story the T-1000 would never have allowed that much time to build something:
The battle takes place over a 10 mile terrain of buildings, etc. DTM already established (somewhere, I think) that the combatants start a mile apart at the beginning. If Vader doesn't make himself known how would the T-1000 find him easily? The T-1000 doesn't have any special detection systems that would enable him to know exactly where Vader is, whereas Vader has the Force to act as a danger sense.
Perfectstorm
08/13/2004, 09:56
Originally posted by ro_gan
Therein lies the rub.
The T-1000 was programmed to terminate John Connor. NOT Darth Vader.
These ToCs pluck the combatants from their respective time periods and then places them back after the battles are over.
During this battle the T-1000 will do whatever is necessary to stay functional (i.e.: alive) so it can accomplish its programmong: terminate John Connor.
Doing a suicide run against Vader would not be logical nor an option.
Also:
In reply to someone who mentioned that in my story the T-1000 would never have allowed that much time to build something:
The battle takes place over a 10 mile terrain of buildings, etc. DTM already established (somewhere, I think) that the combatants start a mile apart at the beginning. If Vader doesn't make himself known how would the T-1000 find him easily? The T-1000 doesn't have any special detection systems that would enable him to know exactly where Vader is, whereas Vader has the Force to act as a danger sense.
I could have sworn there programs where switched to there oppoent or else it wasn't fair. I thought that was brought up in the first t-800 battles becuase they still need to fight.
Originally posted by JesseJames
Just out of curiosity (I'm not a SW buff)
If Senator Palpitine(Or whatever) was just a senator, how did he become so powerful with the force.?
THE ANCIENT JEDI
170,000 years ago, in the Vordarian Beltway Galaxy, 850 trillion light years from our Milky Way Galaxy, a saga began. The Sith were discovered on their home world, Korriban, by the millennia old Galactic Republic. (This was about 75,000 years after the formation of the Galactic Republic under the first Supreme Chancellor, Merk Quanto.) The Sith were a primitive species, but had a powerful secret form of magic and religion. They had existed peacefully for centuries, undiscovered. Unfortunately, it was shortly after their discovery and the founding of the Jedi Order that an imbalance was created.
Kaja Sinis was a Civian born on Coruscant 25,000 years before The Phantom Menace. He was the first Jedi and founder of the Order of Jedi Bendu Knights. The term Jedi meant “light bringer” in the Civian language. Sinis created the techniques allowing one to use the Force. He discovered two sides of the Force, the good side (called “Ashla” in Civian) and the dark side (called “Bogan” in Civian). In the early years, it was the duty of a Jedi to study both the Ashla and the Bogan, but serve the Ashla or good side.
His first student or padawan was Shintor Beerus, a Twi’lek Sinis discovered on the planet Nefarion. The Jedi Academy on Coruscant grew large under the two and eventually the Civian home world, Ophuchi, was transformed into the Jedi stronghold. Kaja Sinis, aided by the Jedi scientist, Cobar Jacash, created the first light saber, as well as the first Jedi Holocron, a small hand-held cube which contained Jedi history. Cobar Jacash was a Bomewright from Sullest. Future Jedi light saber scientists tended to be Bomewrights as well.
Kaja Sinis built his light saber by finding a crystal on a secret planet to create the blade of light. Every Jedi followed in this path. They went to this secret planet and had to find either a green, blue or purple crystal in order to create their light saber. Whether this secret planet is identical with Vronioc, the most Force-sensitive planet in the Galaxy, of the Jedi stronghold planet, Ophuchi, is not known. After finding their crystal, Jedi constructed their own light sabers, often with the assistance of a Bomerwright Jedi scientist.
After training Beerus, Sinis trained many padawans, including Oton Grent, Issius Pallon, Quotar Forsh and Whel Baroc. Beerus trained many padawans as well, including Xis Latos, Don Votal, Eegis Plati and Yag Malore. The Jedi supported the Peace established by the Republic. Sadly, in Sinis’ lifetime, the Dark Jedi were created by a rogue Jedi named Zooti Frugan. Dark Jedi could act as free agents, choosing any color of light saber they could create and even training themselves without a master. These Dark Jedi studied both sides of the Force, but emphasized the dark side or the Bogan. With the rebellion of Zooti Froogan and others, the Jedi Council under Kaja Sinis saw that an imbalance had been created, so the practice of studying the dark side was disbanded. Nonetheless, the Dark Jedi were already flourishing.
The Sith were conquered by Dark Jedi who adopted their form of magic in Sinis’ lifetime. These Jedi called themselves Sith Lords. The first known Sith Lord of recorded history was Darth Scarz. In imitation of the Jedi Holocron, the Sith made their own holocron, the Sith Holocron. The tension between the two sides eventually came to a head at the Battle of Omicras, the first major conflict between the Sith and Jedi. Nonetheless, the Sith Lords remained and continued to grow the Sith Order including non-Sith species in their Order, as one Sith Dynasty succeeded another.
Kaja Sinis slew 3 Sith Lords and 17 Dark Jedi in his life due to their attacks on the Jedi. The 3 Sith Lords were Darth Mirage, Darth Sinistar and Darth Horrar. The 17 Dark Jedi were discovered and slain in the Dungstaka Uprising on the planet Natisular. Kaja Sinis was eventually assassinated at the ripe age of 187 under the orders of Prince Ganchok Krancore of Utarius, by a bounty hunter named Harbontin Dumis. Dumis slew Sinis by means of a fireball explosion, from which the tradition of burning a Jedi in a funeral pyre originated. After Sinis’ death, Beerus took over the Jedi Order. He recorded a prophecy made to him by Kaja Sinis in the Jedi Holocron. It regarded the One who would bring Balance to the Force. Shintor Beerus survived to the age of 174. His Jedi Holocron was lost and not rediscovered for several millennia.
Several millennia of strife between Jedi and Sith ensued. 5,000 years before The Phantom Menace, a Dark Jedi named Jeer Dexton created the Order of the Dark Jedi, who refused the discipline of the Sith. The Sith continued as well. 4,000 years before The Phantom Menace, the Sith were ruled by Darth Revan, succeeded by his apprentice, Darth Malak. Darth Revan was slain by a Force avalanche. Darth Malak was seriously injured in a duel with Jedi Knight Kylo Spartos, which is why Darth Malak lost most of his jaw. Other important Sith of note in Sith History are Darth Tantalon and Darth Cladar of Ropetru. The legendary Darth Tantalon was one of the ten most powerful Sith in regards to Force ability. He was slain by a Force fireball. Darth Cladar was the physically strongest Sith ever. Darth Kanamite was the dumbest Sith ever and lasted only a few days as a Sith. He was a short-lived apprentice in the Sith Order of Darth Bane. Kanamite died on his first mission.
While the dark side of the Force created many great warriors, the light side of the Force did as well. 2,000 years before The Phantom Menace, the most formidable light saber fighter before Yoda lived, the amazing Yendar Platis. Yendar Platis had six arms and could use six light sabers at a time. Another fascinating Jedi was the renowned Jedi scientist Crutus Penari. Penari succeeded in creating a yellow-bladed light saber, which could actually slice through any other light saber. This light saber was called the Penari light saber. The Jedi Council considered the light saber too dangerous and it was destroyed with its blueprints. Of even greater note than either Yendar Platis or Crutus Penari was the beautiful Ce Ce Denowai from the planet Rotteron. She had a higher midichlorian count than any female Jedi ever. Of course, the Jedi had to have their clumsier, less intelligent Jedi. The biggest buffoon of the Jedi was Zistar Flamgag.
THE SITH ORDER OF DARTH BANE
Eventually came the Dynatic Sith Dynasty, about 1,000 years before The Phantom Menace. Sith Lord Qodis trained Darth Bane in the arts of the Sith. Darth Bane never completed his training and rejected his master, but managed to gain possession of the Sith Holocron. All Sith were wiped out at the Battle of Gradon. Only Darth Bane and his apprentice survived, a young woman named Ishto Papar from the planet Nibon. Ishto Papar left Darth Bane to become the fabled Dark Woman, who fled Darth Bane and returned to the light side of the Force in hiding. The Dark Woman found a means to make herself virtually immortal and lived to train Aurra Sing the Herclu.
Darth Bane took on a new apprentice, whom he dubbed Darth Seer. With Darth Seer, he hid upon Coruscant, where the Sith were to remain for several generations. Darth Bane established a Rule of Two, only one master and one apprentice at a time, the sole inheritors of the Dynatic Sith Dynasty.
Upon his death of old age, Darth Seer established a formalized Code for the Sith Order, recruiting the next Sith, Darth Mongerer, who followed his code. One rule was of course, the Rule of Two. Another was that a Sith apprentice needed to construct his own light saber and it had to be red-bladed. The secret to making a red-bladed Sith light saber was to be found in the Sith Holocron. The Sith Holocron was encrypted by a password code containing a long series of Sith words. Darth Seer further insisted the title “Darth” which merely meant “shadow warrior” be made equivalent with the title “Lord” in honor of Darth Bane. This was to remind all future Sith that being a Sith Lord meant always being a warrior.
Darth Seer died of old age, succeeded by his apprentice. Darth Mongerer faithfully continued the Order of the Sith in hiding on Coruscant. A Jedi dueled and beheaded Darth Mongerer, but Mongerer hid the fact that he was a Sith and his apprentice succeeded him as Sith Master. Around this time, Yoda D’Kana the Whill was born on Grentarik, the World of Records. Yoda’s father, Syville Demetris D’Kana, allowed his son to be taken in by the Jedi Order at a young age. Yoda trained under Bontu Sitmus the orange Whill. Bontu Sitmus trained under Losho Yik. Bontu Sitmus became a legend in his own lifetime by slaying 7 Dark Jedi at a single time, all by himself.
Two centuries into the Dynatic Sith Dynasty, the Sith Lord Darth Gilgon discovered Darth Augor on the planet Nefeyi. The young Darth Augor grew to become one of the greatest Sith of all time. Darth Gilgon was slain with a Force tornado, making Darth Augor the Master. Darth Augor slew dozens of Jedi, but was in turn ambushed and slain by 17 Jedi, including the young Yoda. Darth Augor concealed his identity as a Sith and the Sith Order continued undetected.
When Yoda was 177, the Jedi Holocron kept by Shintor Beerus was rediscovered, prophesying the One who would bring Balance to the Force. Yoda was a more formidable Jedi than Evins Croslod and even Aenon Jurtis, the most formidable Jedi before his time. Many considered Yoda to be the fulfillment of the prophecy, but upon examining the Holocron, Yoda could not be the One, for the One would be born of a virgin mother.
Yoda rose through the ranks, eventually becoming a member of the Jedi Council under Lady Lidius Frotgus. Under her, the Jedi Holocron kept by Shintor Beerus was rediscovered. Yoda lived during the rise of the most powerful Dark Jedi ever (with the exception of the Sith). This Dark Jedi was Norius Havok of Eegius, who lived 150 years before the events of The Phantom Menace.
Unnoticed to the Jedi, one Sith succeeded another on Coruscant, eventually leading up to Darth Frordon of Dresdane. On Dresdane, Frordon set up a duel between his apprentice Baltimort and Baltimort’s potential replacement, Imperius. Baltimort and Imperius were each Baraosi, both from the planet Bothiwite, also known as Tindell 5, the fifth planet of the Tindell Star System. Since Imperius had a collection of kyber crystals, but was less experienced than Baltimort, Imperius and Baltimort teamed up against Frordon. Baltimort became Imperius’ master, until Imperius slew Baltimort by an ever-growing collection of kyber crystals and heightened skill. Imperius slew Baltimort by means of a Force earthquake.
After this, Imperius apprenticed a young boy from Naboo, Dantius Palpatine and dubbed him Darth Sidious. Imperius had several kyber crystals and eventually gave Palpatine one of these kyber crystals. The kyber crystals were forged by the Rodar Wizards of Perdonis and scattered throughout the Galaxy, about 100,000 years before the events of The Phantom Menace. Unbeknownst to Imperius, Palpatine had found a far more potent kyber crystal than anything Imperius had. Palpatine located it on the planet Moovis, which he purchased from Ushkar Madcra, a bounty hunter who sold it as junk. This potent kyber crystal made Palpatine too powerful for his master to control. On the planet Skaggis, Palpatine sliced off Imperius’ arms, sliced Imperius in half from head to hip, then finished Imperius off with a Force tornado when Imperius was 52 years old.
RISE OF THE SITH
Palpatine took on an apprentice named Darth Voltres. Darth Voltres, while still an apprentice himself, apprenticed Darth Orcron and possibly others, breaking the Sith Rule of Two. Palpatine found out and sliced Darth Voltres in half, from head to torso, then hunted down and slew Darth Orcron as well. (It is possible one of Voltres’ surviving students trained Asajj Ventress of Rattatak, who claimed to be a Sith warrior when Count Dooku discovered her.)
Undaunted, Palpatine sought out a new apprentice. He found a very young Zabrak on Iridonia named Khameir Sarin. Succeeding Palpatine’s tests, Khameir Sarin began to be known as Darth Maul. Before the Sith revealed their existence to the Jedi, Darth Maul succeeded in slaying 3 Jedi: Barco Trellius, Roro Fergus and Ji-Dis Flar. Darth Maul revealed himself to the Jedi, as shown in The Phantom Menace.
Some of the Jedi in The Phantom Menace were in fact the most powerful Jedi in history. Not only was Yoda of Grentarik one of the most powerful Jedi ever, but so were some of his colleagues on the Jedi Council including Plo Koon of Dorin, Yarael Poof the Quermian, Even Piell the Lannik and, of course, the amazing Mace Windu. Yarael Poof was trained by Zinkor Dawn and Even Piell was trained by Haccor Topkin.
Mace Windu came from Erberius and was related to another formidable Jedi, Usby Thape. However, Mace Windu ended up being trained by someone he was not related to, Cloto Nervon. Mace Windu in turn trained Depa Billaba and Ipto Follers, and fought Dark Jedi Barkius Zok. Let us not forget Master Qui-Gon Jinn and his apprentice, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Qui-Gon Jinn came from planet Hargithon. Obi-Wan was born on the yellow rocky world of Pilegias. As a very young boy, he was found on the planet Kelchase and given by his parents to the Jedi Order.
RISE OF THE EMPIRE
After the death of Darth Maul, Palpatine immediately sought out three potential apprentices; Sifo Dyas, Detori (Darth Rage), a cyborg Toban from Yetis and Dakkus Vitrich’s Jedi student, Count Jard Dooku of Serreno (Darth Tyranus). Detori grew up as a youth on Sevara, just past Iridonia and was there found by Palpatine for training. Palpatine first approached Sifo Dyas. Palpatine had asked Sifo Dyas to become a Sith, since the Kaminoans were expecting his visit. Sifo Dyas refused and Palpatine slew him by a Force fireball and Force earthquake. Palpatine then approached Detori and Count Dooku, who each accepted the possibility of apprenticeship. The two were to duel for the position of apprentice. Before the duel could be set up, Plo Koon fought Darth Rage in a fierce light-saber duel, eventually destroying Darth Rage by a Force avalanche. Before dying, Darth Rage denied being a Sith and claimed to act alone.
Count Dooku became Darth Tyranus, Palpatine’s apprentice, in less than a year after the events of The Phantom Menace. One of his first missions was to order a clone army as Sifo Dyas, who was on his way to Kamino. (Sifo Dyas was an Ogdarian born on the asteroid world of Esiken, and discovered by the Jedi when he moved to Allistare.) Count Dooku had Billigo Hilgobottomager (a Jedi master of disguise and possibly a changeling) pretend to be Sifo Dyas and order an army cloned from the bounty hunter, Jango Fett. Jango Fett had proven himself as the best bounty hunter throughout the Galaxy by always beating the formidable cyborg Montross to a mark.
Palpatine and Count Dooku quickly found a Jedi to aid them in their nefarious plans to take over the Galaxy. His name was Visivious Drakarn. Drakarn was born on Gishomire, where his parents gave him over to the Jedi Order. Drakarn was a rebellious student and as punishment at age 17, was sent to Melbius Prime to work for a Jedi charity organization. Drakarn was resentful for this punishment and took the opportunity to get revenge on the Jedi once he was allowed to return to Coruscant at age 20. Recruited by Count Dooku on Coruscant for the task, Drakarn erased the files concerning the existence of Kamino. This act remained unnoticed for years.
Dooku thought he was gaining much power in the Dark Side, but Palpatine was merely utilizing Count Dooku as a tool. As Count Dooku unified the Separatists, Palpatine brought adepts of the Dark Side into his conspiracy. He made Sly Moore of Umbara his secretary, due to her ability to read minds. He befriended two Jedi during this period, considering which one he would choose to replace Dooku as an apprentice. Their names were Anakin Cleevon Skywalker of Thessius and the little known Vorron Tastras. Though Palpatine’s relationship with Vorron Tastras remains largely unknown, it is known that he utilized the skill of the Dark Jedi assassin known as Xio Jade, the first “Emperor’s Hand” and aunt of Mara Jade.
Though Anakin would always consider Tatooine his home world, he was actually born on Thessius. Thessius was a watery island world Anakin’s mother Shmi Skywalker moved to. She was sold as a slave and taken to Tatooine, but was originally herself from the planet Cardonas. While Palpatine and Dooku were growing in the power of the dark side, Anakin was growing in the good side of the Force. This did not prevent him from negotiations. In fact, the negotiations he had with the rogue Halbertas on the planet Verkig got quite aggressive.
The events depicted in Attack of the Clones transpired. These were followed by the Clone Wars. During the Clone Wars, Count Dooku found Asajj Ventress on Rattatak. She claimed to be a Sith warrior and though Count Dooku rejected this claim, he agreed to instruct her and utilize her skills. He found a cyborg, from Disicon, whom he trained in the arts of a Dark Jedi as well, though only to the level of padawan. This cyborg was known as General Grievous, the Droid Army Leader. He could wield four light sabers at once, by splitting his two robotic arms into four. General Grievous was kept alive and made into a cyborg by a scientific genius named Sago Milius. Grievous is from a planet called Sharmite.
After the Clone Wars, the events of Star Wars: Episode 3 occurred. Anakin Skywalker slew Count Dooku, and became the infamous Darth Vader. After a violent duel, Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead on the lava planet of Mustafar, but Palpatine revived Anakin, giving him his cyber-genetic suit and possibly placed a chip in Anakin’s suit by which Palpatine held the life of Anakin in his hands. (All the means by which Palpatine held Vader in his power are not known, and the chip will not likely figure into Episode 3.) Anakin, now known as Darth Vader, made sure Dooku’s surviving minions would soon meet their doom. Asajj Ventress, General Grievous, Visivious Drakarn, Billigo Hilgobottomager and Shatar Hooslun would not survive Palpatine’s purge against Force users.
Chancellor Palpatine declared himself Emperor and reorganized the Senate under his rule, renaming it the Imperial Senate. He legitimized his rule with the aid of the highest court in the Galaxy, the Supreme Tribunal, located on the planet Granicus. The head of the Tribunal was the Consul, Cos Da#### of Alderaan. Da#### decided to cast his vote in favor of making Chancellor Palpatine the Emperor. Other members of the Supreme Tribunal who supported Cos Da#### included Son Hhat of Granicus, Mara Horus of Townowi, Crispin Hoedaak of Aquilae and the obese Vantos Coll.
Through Darth Vader and others, Palpatine established the Galactic Empire and executed the Jedi Purge. Thousands upon thousands of Jedi were massacred. The Order of 10,000 Jedi virtually disappeared. Great Jedi were just memories. Rido Fander, one of the ten greatest Jedi ever, was no more. Chase Hintock, the Bomewright Jedi scientist of Sullest, who aided Anakin in constructing his light saber, was dead. The golden haired, yellow-skinned Jedi of Ord Mantell, Nebar Foxis, was considered the best looking male Jedi of his time. He died valiantly defending the Jedi children on Coruscant. Dethal Vangris, the prettiest Jedi throughout the Galaxy, was gone. Other Force Users were eliminated as well, such as the peaceful Sutrans, the Biotans and the powerful female Vortari, which took their name in honor of their founder, Lady Vortari.
The only Force Users to survive were those lucky enough to remain in hiding on remote worlds. We know some members of E.T.’s species, which were Sutrans, survived. However, most Force-sensitive individuals were tracked down by Grand Inquisitor Tremayne and were either made to submit their abilities to Emperor Palpatine’s rule or perish. Under Tremayne and a warrior named Lettow, a dark side elite developed. The dark side warriors who submitted to the Emperor were called the Legions of Lettow. According to the Expanded Universe, the Emperor’s Dark Side Elite included Nefta, Sa-Di, Executor Sedriss and others. Assassins with Force ability were brought into the fold as well. They were called the “Emperor’s Hands” and included such notables as Mara Jade. Each “Emperor’s Hand” was led to believe they were the sole Emperor’s Hand, giving them great self confidence. Aurra Sing the Herclu supported the Jedi Purge, seeking out her master, the fabled Dark Woman. Ironically, Aurra Sing was slain by a Jedi, Nto Boraj, who did not survive the purge himself.
The Emperor appointed Sate Pestage as his Grand Vizier to control the mundane aspects of the Empire. No one saw the Emperor without his permission. Emperor Palpatine made Armand Isard his Director of Intelligence and Ved Kennede the Master Royal Guardsman, in charge of training the Royal Guardsmen. Other important Imperial Dignitaries included Janus Greejatus, Kren Blista-Vanee, Sim Aloo and Ars Dangor. The Grand Moffs and the Grand Admirals were appointed in time, of which Grand Moff Tarkin and Grand Admiral Thrawn are the most notable. Dark Prince Xizor was also held in high esteem by the Emperor. Through Xizor’s criminal organization, Black Sun, the Emperor could successfully direct the criminal elements throughout the Galaxy.
THE REBELLION
Many Senators rejected the Emperor and organized the Rebellion. The most notable Senator to oppose the Empire was the birdlike Kesselian, Mir Nash. The Rebels unanimously supported Seig Darklighter as their leader. Remaining Jedi like Kane Starkiller of Utapau and Akira Valor of Townowi gathered a handful of the few remaining Jedi. They fled to Aquilae where King Kayos and Queen Breha gave them protection. Kane Starkiller was survived by his son, Deak, who was taken to Tatooine and grew up to be close friends with Luke Skywalker. Akira’s son, Justin Valor, lived on to defend King Kayos children; Prince Oeta, Prince Puck and Princess Zara. Seig Darklighter, Kane Starkiller, Akira Valor and his son Justin Valor, were tracked down by Darth Vader and the Legions of Lettow. None of them lived to see the Jedi Order rise again.
Yoda and Obi-Wan remained in hiding for decades, until the events of Star Wars: The Classic Trilogy. In the final Episode of the Classic Trilogy, Return of the Jedi, Darth Vader killed Palpatine, saving the life of his son, Luke Skywalker. Darth Vader died, returning to the light side of the Force. The heroes of the Classic Trilogy continued to have their adventures. Han Solo of Corellia married Leia Organa of Alderaan and had three children, Anakin, Jacen, and Jaina. Luke Skywalker of Tatooine married Mara Jade and fathered Ben Skywalker. Chewbacca of Kashyyyk and Lando Calrissian of Zaskus.
Most of the events between Star Wars Episodes have been detailed in the Expanded Universe, but have not been detailed by Lucas himself. According to the Expanded Universe, between Episode 6: Return of the Jedi and Episode 7, Emperor Palpatine was succeeded by his Grand Vizier, Sate Pestage. He was in turn replaced by Director of Intelligence, Ysanne Isard. Grand Admiral Thrawn, a Chiss from Csilla, returned from the Unknown Regions to take over the weakened Empire. Following his assassination, Emperor Palpatine returned to rule in a clone body. His Royal Guardsman, Carnor Jax, arranged for all clone bodies of Emperor Palpatine to be damaged. Carnor Jax was slain by the last faithful Royal Guardsman, Kir Kanos. Carnor Jax was succeeded by the Imperial Interim Ruling Council, headed by Burr Nolyds. He was assassinated by the Yuuzhan Vong agent Nom Anor, as were the two elected heads after him, first Admiral Banjeer, then General Immodet. Under the direction of Lord Manos, a Devaronian, they eventually elected Xandel Carivus. Carivus, in a foolish sense of pride, declared himself Emperor. Upon his assassination, the Republic was once again restored to its former position, upon the growing threat posed by the Yuuzhan Vong. Leia Organa Solo was now recognized throughout the Galaxy as the undisputed Chief of State.
THE SEQUEL TRILOGY AND THEREAFTER
In Episode 7, the Jedi had been reorganized, but so had the Dark Jedi, led by Shindor of Brontic. These Dark Jedi carried not only purple, blue and green-bladed light sabers, but yellow, orange, white and black-bladed light sabers as well. The main opponent in Episode 7 was one of the chief Dark Jedi under Shindor, Spiden of Volotta. Aided by Asp, a changeling spy from Sentor, Spiden and Shindor controlled a powerful new order of Dark Jedi. Neither Shindor nor Spiden were Sith, for the Sith were truly extinct, no longer to terrorize the Galaxy. The war between the Dark Jedi and Luke’s New Jedi Order are all part of Star Wars: The Sequel Trilogy, Episodes 7, 8, and 9. In the Sequel Trilogy, the threat of the Dark Jedi is vanquished, eliminating the dark side of the Force forever.
Luke Skywalker and his sister, Leia Organa Solo, continued in their positions of leadership. 20 years after Episode 7, they entered into negotiations with the fierce Raverons of the Unknown Regions. The Raverons attempted to take over the Republic, breaking their negotiations. Luckily, the Raverons failed. Luke and Leia lived to be well over 100 years old. With Leia’s passing, Grone Tisal, Chief of Coruscant Secret Security, became the next elected Chief of State. The Jedi Order continued to prosper and protect the Galaxy under Luke’s son, Ben Skywalker. Peace was established throughout the Galaxy.
Maximcards
08/13/2004, 12:27
Vader
green_knight
08/13/2004, 13:59
Ro_gan, that totally rocked. I know more about the star wars universe now than I ever have. Thanks a lot!
Originally posted by ro_gan
Therein lies the rub.
The T-1000 was programmed to terminate John Connor. NOT Darth Vader.
These ToCs pluck the combatants from their respective time periods and then places them back after the battles are over.
During this battle the T-1000 will do whatever is necessary to stay functional (i.e.: alive) so it can accomplish its programmong: terminate John Connor.
Doing a suicide run against Vader would not be logical nor an option.
Also:
In reply to someone who mentioned that in my story the T-1000 would never have allowed that much time to build something:
The battle takes place over a 10 mile terrain of buildings, etc. DTM already established (somewhere, I think) that the combatants start a mile apart at the beginning. If Vader doesn't make himself known how would the T-1000 find him easily? The T-1000 doesn't have any special detection systems that would enable him to know exactly where Vader is, whereas Vader has the Force to act as a danger sense.
Two things:
I think we established in the MWs with the T-800 that for the purposes of Terminators in this TOC, their mission is to destroy whoever they are pitted against, here that would be Darth Vader.
And yes, the arena is 10 miles wide, BUT they dont start 1 mile apart, theyre starting at opposite ends of the terrain, meaning they are 10 miles apart.
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
I dunno, I've seen a lot of heroclix games come down to terrain, and it's use. Much like Mechwarrior or Warhammer 40k, terrain can be a huge part of the game.
Seen many 40k games won or lost on terrain, thanks to choke or funnel points. Shooting armies that funnel their opponent into their guns, or small marine assault armies holding choke points and keeping the opposing numbers down that way. Rhino Rush armies that sneak in under cover and then obliterate you in one turn because your firepower could not be brought to bare.
It's even worse in Necromunda. There are several terrains (especially using the "hazardous conditions" rules) that are outright lethal. Fall off a catwalk into an ooze-pit and you're out. Period.
In the old Battletech terrain would regularly end up taking out a 'mech, be it a collapsing building or a bad landing on rocks or such.
So, Wakandaman, while Heroclix might not have lethal terrain there are plenty of games out there where the terrain is going to kill you just as easily (if not more easily) than your opponent.
Maniac_nmt
08/13/2004, 20:17
Originally posted by ro_gan
Therein lies the rub.
The T-1000 was programmed to terminate John Connor. NOT Darth Vader.
These ToCs pluck the combatants from their respective time periods and then places them back after the battles are over.
During this battle the T-1000 will do whatever is necessary to stay functional (i.e.: alive) so it can accomplish its programmong: terminate John Connor.
Doing a suicide run against Vader would not be logical nor an option.
Also:
In reply to someone who mentioned that in my story the T-1000 would never have allowed that much time to build something:
The battle takes place over a 10 mile terrain of buildings, etc. DTM already established (somewhere, I think) that the combatants start a mile apart at the beginning. If Vader doesn't make himself known how would the T-1000 find him easily? The T-1000 doesn't have any special detection systems that would enable him to know exactly where Vader is, whereas Vader has the Force to act as a danger sense.
you know Rogan, this is just out and out stupid. Does that mean Tron was atomic particle sized, and ceased to function in the tournament since he was outside a computer?
So Matrix guys can't jump super far, or move faster, or punch harder? In fact they're just skinny computer geeks who's mussles don't work right because they've atrophied.
If you go the route that the T-1000 won't try to kill Vader (that's it's only after John Conner), well Vader is totally dicked then because he has no force powers. There are no midichlorians in these battlefields, nothing for Vader to manipulate.
Come on.
I vote vader. He hunted down and killed almost every jedi, except for yoda and obiwan. But they had to hide from him.
Darth Vader
JesseJames
08/14/2004, 15:32
T-100- wouldnt allow Darth to build a EMP pulse...A Super Android is going to search and destroy...he isnt going to walk around slowly....he isnt going to toy with equipment...Hes going to find Vader and kill him.
And im pretty sure the T-1000 has sensors/scanners that could see through building, with some kind of heat sensors and what not...
But hey, I dont care, I think Vaders going to win regardless.
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