View Full Version : Movie Battles: Tournament Of Champions SHW Division: Round 1, Match 10
Another battle of the fairly unknowns, though not quite as bad as Talos v Bavmorda, in the end, thus far, Ivan ooze has managed to take the lead and the win against Serleena and move onto the next Round. Not exactly Superman vs the Hulk now, was it..........hmmmmm, that gives me an idea.
Now allow me to present your Next Battle of this Super Heavy Weight Division of the Movie Tournament Of Champions:
SUPERMAN (SUPERMAN I, II and III)
VS.
HULK (HULK)
As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them or used in their films (Assumption Rule applies here, if there is sufficient evidence proving they would have something that they were never shown to use in their films), to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.
Randomly Chosen Area:
Apocalyptic City - Typical bombed out city seen in future sci-fi movies. Large areas of war-torn rubble, the remains of old shops, ruined vehicles. What was once great has become an urban wasteland. (inspired by Terminator, Mad Max, the One)
Thanks all, and enjoy.
And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.
ALSO, please do your best to respect everyones votes, reasonings and opinions here. If you believe your character should win, but doesnt in the end, dont hold grudges against the character that beat yours, or call the votes that allowed this to happen "fanboy" arguments or plain and simply wrong. We all have our own way of thinking and voting here, with each one of our thoughts and ideas as valid as your own. Lets do what we can, even in the heat of an argument, to respect that. Thanks.
MOVIE TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS PART 4
ROUND 1
Emperor Palpatine vs. Yoda: Yoda
Hellboy vs. The Mask: The Mask
Imhotep vs. John Murdoch: Imhotep
Agent Smith vs. Saruman: Agent Smith
Professor X vs. Magneto: Magneto
Queen Bavmorda vs. Talos: Talos
"Dream World" Freddy Krueger vs. Professor Dumbledore: Professor Dumbledore
Godzilla (American) vs. Gandalf The White: Godzilla
Ivan Ooze vs. Serleena: Ivan Ooze
Superman vs. Hulk: ??????
green_knight
08/24/2004, 14:02
Fight, range, superspeed, superior intellect, cold breath....
Hulk is down for the count.
I vote Superman.
bluebeetle
08/24/2004, 14:05
Superman hes so much faster
donnie72191
08/24/2004, 14:06
hulk will smash superman!
hail_eris
08/24/2004, 14:11
Sweet lord, and you thought the SW vs. LotR conflict was bad? Welcome to a new hell. While twelve-foot tall Hulk of the movie was a beast, I think Supes could neutralize him in any number of ways - freeze him with arctic breath, inhale and remove the air out from the arena to make him revert to Banner, etc. Flight is a *huge* advantage, as is Clark's ability to retain his intellect when in fighting mode. While I'm voting for Superman, I think the real winner of this battle will be DTM's ulcer...
Shin-Mario
08/24/2004, 14:11
Dang...Supes vs. Hulk in the first round? crazy yo, crazy.
I vote movie Hulk. If anything, they didn't show ANY weakness in this version. Throughout the movie (the few he was in...) the Hulk simply out grew or outmuscled the enemy.
Try to trap him? He grew out of it.
Try to shoot him? Skin made EVERYTHING bounce off.
Take him down in mental warfare? Took you down in a big jelly burst.
And for the most part I don't remember Superman showing that great a range...I remember him hitting the baseball into orbit, but that's about it...
SilverAgeFlash
08/24/2004, 14:13
From What i saw in the Movies Hulk couldnt be put down.
because we are goin movies alone i have to go with hulk, i mean he was practilly a force of Nature. I mean after Fighting for like a hour he took a Gamma Bomb to the face and survived. He just got Bigger ang Bigger and stonger stronger.
My vote Hulk
Kal - El II
08/24/2004, 14:14
Superman crushes the green bug.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 14:15
Superman. Hulk can't hurt what he can't hit. He'll eventaully rev ert, if Superman can't pummel him effectively.
Originally posted by hail_eris
Sweet lord, and you thought the SW vs. LotR conflict was bad? Welcome to a new hell. While twelve-foot tall Hulk of the movie was a beast, I think Supes could neutralize him in any number of ways - freeze him with arctic breath, inhale and remove the air out from the arena to make him revert to Banner, etc. Flight is a *huge* advantage, as is Clark's ability to retain his intellect when in fighting mode. While I'm voting for Superman, I think the real winner of this battle will be DTM's ulcer...
Superman can #### all the air out of a 25 mile wide arena???
And ice wont hold this Hulk long, certainly not for 10 seconds, in my opinion.
Remember all, while it might be tough with two comic characters here, we have to think what their Movie versions would do, how their Movie versions would fight, and using powers and abilities their Movie versions showed only.
AEONFLUX
08/24/2004, 14:24
If there was ever a fella who had a strong pimp hand it would be the jolly green guy.
Hulk, pimp hand is WAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY strong. ;)
lukebuchanan
08/24/2004, 14:27
Originally posted by hail_eris
Sweet lord, and you thought the SW vs. LotR conflict was bad? Welcome to a new hell. While twelve-foot tall Hulk of the movie was a beast, I think Supes could neutralize him in any number of ways - freeze him with arctic breath, inhale and remove the air out from the arena to make him revert to Banner, etc. Flight is a *huge* advantage, as is Clark's ability to retain his intellect when in fighting mode. While I'm voting for Superman, I think the real winner of this battle will be DTM's ulcer...
The best post I've read today...........and I totally agree.
Welcome to TRUE fanboy Hell DTM.
But for the heck of it I think the movie Hulk was pretty friggin' strong. I'll vote for him.
Wait a second, Superman I turned back time, he can beat everyone on this list.
Luke B.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 14:30
Remember, this Superman has TK-- he lifted that one Phantom Zoen thug in the air. Hulk doesn't have much to counter that.
Eventually, Hulk gets tired and bored, or Superman talks him down (which is consisten with the movie version). Hulk turns back, Superman gives him a love tap (if needed by the rules) and wins.
Rokk_Krinn
08/24/2004, 14:30
The thing to remember about this movie version DTM is that even bringing into play the magic weakness - this is still the pre-Crisis Superman who was so far beyond Hulk's capabilities it's frightening. Yes, this version of Kal _would_ find a way to #### all the air out of a 25-mile radius if needed. His heat vision could flash-fry the big beast (though remember too - if Clark's acting in-character, he doesn't kill). This is the version of Superman that uses super-hypnosis tricks in the movies...no trick at all for him to "hyp-mo-tize" the Jade Goliath into calming down. A pinky flick later and Banner's KO'd.
Inbetweener
08/24/2004, 14:31
O.K., I'm having a hard time stepping into the "movie only" paradigm...but I'm going with the Hulk. If we were talking about comic battles here it's Superman but the movie Hulk is just too much. If he was hurt he would get stronger. Granted, this decision is based on two films from two very different times in terms of special effects so take that into account...perhaps when Superman is remade we will get a better idea of what he can do on the screen but until then I don't see the Hulk going down here...a close one but Hulk wins.
Superman for the win...hulk can beat him down, but Supes will pull it out and kick the snot out of him. Superman can take a beating and took down a fellow kryptonian who has the same powers he does (Zod in movie 2). Superman for the win.
Hulk was a BEAST in his movie, but Superman for the win.
Shame really...these first round fights are amazing but I was hoping to have the HULK last at least until round 2.
Shin-Mario
08/24/2004, 14:32
...and I also think that the "Apocalyptic City" could be an advantage for the Hulk. Here he has cars and buildings to smash Supes with, as well as being able to hit him in close quarters without Supes running TOO far. And in the movie, the Hulk is shown to leap rediculously high & far while being able to RUN faster than bullets!
In the Superman movies, specifically II, I remember the initial fights had him going toe-to-toe w/ Zod and co. I think this translates to his mentality going into a fight. He won't fly into the atmosphere and blast away w/ his eyes.
I see Chris Reeves smacking the Hulk a couple times (in regular speed) bruising him like the Hulk has never felt, before an enormous blow comes crashing down on his spitcurl. By then the Hulk would be 12 feet tall, 5 feet wide, with his bruises and wounds healing rapidly.
I was really hoping to see this match in a later round. I let a friend borrow my Hulk DVD so I can't reference it. And as much as I loved Superman's orchestrated music, you can't beat the Velvet Revolver on the Hulk's soundtrack (sorry if I've offended anyone...but its true! Revolver Rawks!)
Sgt.Hatch
08/24/2004, 14:35
OK remember people, these are the movie versions here. And from just using the movies it would be hard to vote against hulk. Like others mentioned hulk is never beaten physically and seems just to adapt to stronger threats, he was able to catch a missle (or some type of projectile) fired at him and throw it back at the hellicopter, he was able to leap on a fighter jet (I know supes is faster than a jet) proving that he is not slow poke. As for supes freezing him I don't think that will hold him, he seems like he would be able to break out. Superman never did anything spectacular in the movies (except turn back time by reversing the earths rotation, that was cool), and supes was physically beaten and over powered twice if I remember right, by that red haired sun guy and the criminals from krypton. I mean come on Richard Prior almost took down supes.
Vote has to be for Hulk
Bah Zod could take Hulk, he doesn't have those frilly morals that Kal does. But those very morals will prevent the kryptonian from advancing. Superman would probably start off strong, but underestimate Hulk's capacity for abuse, and not go in hard enough, then it is all Hulk. His movie version is very overpowering and I don't think Supes could handle it if he got into close-combat with him and still wanted to avoid doing permanent damage to Hulk.
Hulk wins this one.
brendanbrown
08/24/2004, 14:47
Man, this First round is rediculous! First Yoda vs. Palp, then Saruman vs. Smith, then Magneto vs. Prof. X, then Freddy vs. Dumbledoor, then Gandalf vs. Godzilla, AND NOW THIS!
Hulk was never stopped in the movie, I don't think Superman can do it here. As much as I'd love to vote for Mr. Reeves, put me down for Bana
Vote: Hulk
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 14:49
How does Hulk fight if he's suspended in the air?
DTM, I have a question and it effects the way I'll vote. Does the Hulk come into the battle as Bruce Banner?
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 14:56
Superman gets knocked for a loop in the movies a few times, but other than Kryptonite and a 3-on-1 of equally powerful characters, does anyone ever knock him out? I don't think this is as easy as saying "Hulk never got taken out" if Superman didn't either.
Pre Crisis or no, he was still knocked around by missiles in Superman 3, and was hard pressed to actually catch only one of Lexs missiles at the end of Superman 1.
Those instances make him much more to the level of a SHW than a Cosmic Being.
Originally posted by Kazuel
DTM, I have a question and it effects the way I'll vote. Does the Hulk come into the battle as Bruce Banner?
No.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 15:04
He also rotated the Earth backwards. I think it's fair to say he's shown inconsisntly. ;)
Good point about the missiloe catch-- and I never saw Superman 3, which is why I asked.
I still say he wins, based on range adn the ability to neutralize Hulk (levitatin him)-- which he does attempt on the most Hulk-like foe he fights, so it's in character.
NickFury15
08/24/2004, 15:06
Superman has the speed, range, and flight. He will win.
Now if it was Superman vs Ivan Ooze...
Shin-Mario
08/24/2004, 15:12
I apologize for my ignorance...but someone mentioned earlier that Superman had TK? When was this shown? I have to admit I have a good knowledge of I, remember some of II, and only watched Superman vs. Superman in III.
...and for those who argue for Superman grabing the Hulk by the ankle/arm/anything and speeding into the sky: big mistake.
Grabbing the Hulk puts you in CLOSE COMBAT w/ him, and as most already know is a bad way to try and beat him. And even if he is dropped, Hulk survived falling from the upper atmosphere (higher than 25 miles I believe) and was still strong enough to dig through the river, burrough under San Fran, and was still dealt w/ an emotional flashback! Come on, the FLASHBACK!
Im gonna have to vote superman here. Hulk was having a hard time with those 3 gamma dogs. Superman was having a hard time with 3 kryptonians. Hulk should not be a big problem for him.
My vote SUPERMAN.
hail_eris
08/24/2004, 15:36
Well, if Supes can't s-u-c-k (yeah, you can tell in my first post that I unsuccessfully tried to fancy dance my way around using this forbidden word) the air out of the entire arena, what I picture is this (with apologies to ro_gan - not trying to steal your thunder):
Supes gets a nice head of steam going and approaches Hulk from the air. We get initial sparring, at which point Supes unloads on him with the high beams right in the corneas - little microwave action for the old brain stem. Hulk angry, but Hulk stunned - at least momentarily. Clark then starts flying - *fast* - in a tight circle around the quickly recovering Hulk. He hits the heat vision, creating the mother of all thermal inversions. The mini-tornado works like a chimney, funneling away all of the Hulk's precious air supply. In the movie, old boy doesn't last long at all in the vacuum of space. Hulk takes a nap and Clark advances.
Numb Skrull
08/24/2004, 15:38
Hulk has this one! In comic books, Superman wins, but this movie hulk was unstoppable. Superman has flight and range advantage, but if he wants to take out the Hulk he is going to get close and use his strength. Hulk can take alot more punishment then Superman in the movie, not only that, but he gets stronger with more pain.
I see Superman pummeling the Hulk in the beginning, but the Hulk just gets madder and madder until he gets uber strong. Each Punch from the Hulk will get harder and harder. Eventually the Hulk will knock out Superman
Puny Kryptonian the Hulk will say as he lays Supes down for the count!
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 15:40
Shin-- he levitates the big dumb Kryptonian with a beam in II. It was rather upsetting to a comics purist seeing Superman use a power he did not have in the comics (especially when he has so many already!).
OMG, I can't beleive this fight came up in the first round, it took all the way for the 4th in the comics tournament. I can't really vote right now, it has been so long since I saw a Superman movie that I can barely remember them.
Nighthawk
08/24/2004, 15:41
Hulk is too strong.
Numb Skrull
08/24/2004, 15:44
Originally posted by King
Im gonna have to vote superman here. Hulk was having a hard time with those 3 gamma dogs. Superman was having a hard time with 3 kryptonians. Hulk should not be a big problem for him.
My vote SUPERMAN.
Hulk beat those dogs in under ten minutes, is that having a hard time.
Hulk survived missle barrages, angry Hulk dogs, and he was constantly under fire from the military. He survived a drop from space! The Hulk was hardcore.
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 15:46
Originally posted by green_knight
Fight, range, superspeed, superior intellect, cold breath....
Hulk is down for the count.
I vote Superman. This pretty much sums up why I KNOW Superman will win. Also the movie Superman can do the disappearing and reappearing trick that he did in the Fortress of Solitude against the three Kryptonian supervillains. Making several illusions of himself. Considering how the Hulk is not very intelligent he'd have a hard time figuring out which one was the real one until it was too late. I really don't think this is much of a contest. Superman wins against this unintelligent creature100% of the time.
DTM!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME!?!?!?!?
Do you have any idea how long this will take to script? I might have to use two postings because it will be so long.
:confused:
And for all those Kal-El supporters out there:
Pre-Crisis Superman and Angry-Dumb Hulk have fought before (in the comics). It was a one-shot special back in the 1970's. It had Supes/Hulk against Doctor Doom/Parasite.
I just wish I could remember how that went.
The movie version of Superman, although still Pre-Crisis version, is no where near as strong as he was in the comics.
SpakSpang
08/24/2004, 15:48
Superman beats the Hulk everytime.
Superman is awesome. He has the strength level from the beginning that Hulk gets only after he gets mad.
The Hulk is not someone that can be beaten to death, but Superman doesn't have to do that. He just has to incap. Hulk. Superman can do that in so many ways its not even funny.
Superman will take this battle and move on. Superman is one of the most powerful contenders in this match. The Hulk is also powerful, but he got a bad pick here.
My top combatants that I know are in this contest are:
Dumbledore
Godzilla
Superman
Originally posted by hail_eris
Well, if Supes can't s-u-c-k (yeah, you can tell in my first post that I unsuccessfully tried to fancy dance my way around using this forbidden word) the air out of the entire arena, what I picture is this (with apologies to ro_gan - not trying to steal your thunder):
Supes gets a nice head of steam going and approaches Hulk from the air. We get initial sparring, at which point Supes unloads on him with the high beams right in the corneas - little microwave action for the old brain stem. Hulk angry, but Hulk stunned - at least momentarily. Clark then starts flying - *fast* - in a tight circle around the quickly recovering Hulk. He hits the heat vision, creating the mother of all thermal inversions. The mini-tornado works like a chimney, funneling away all of the Hulk's precious air supply. In the movie, old boy doesn't last long at all in the vacuum of space. Hulk takes a nap and Clark advances.
If he starts speeding around Hulk like this he'll get clotheslined.
Then a really annoyed Hulk will grab him, and swat him
around like a rag doll.
This is not a vote.
Also, according to Peter David (long time Hulk writer), the Hulk has no limit to how strong he can get. The movie brings this out even moreso.
Superman is already at his limit. He is as strong as he can be. Albeit, that is WAY strong. But, the Hulk, with no limit, will eventually out class Superman's power levels. The question thus is, can The Hulk last long enough to go all uber over the Kryptonian's hide?
DTM:
Quick question:
Is this version of Superman (Pre-Crisis and all) capable of moving planets by simply pushing them? He demonstrated time control by reversing the Earth's spin, so can we ASSUME he can physically move a planet as well?
And, if so, where is this battle being fought? Is the war torn world just a chunk of earth free floating in space or is it on Earth or is another abandoned planet? I will need to know this for my tale.
Shin-Mario
08/24/2004, 15:54
Hulk beat those dogs in under ten minutes, is that having a hard time.
I also believe that its the manner in which they beat their respective opponents.
Superman: took two (three?) fights, first one where he was challenged and pushed for over 15-20 minutes. He then wins by finally luring them into the fortress and sends them flying in his symbol (okay, I didn't get that either...)
Hulk: got bit a few times, got madder, punched one through the skull, dog scares Betty, Hulk RIPS THE DOG IN HALF.
Granted the Hulk write up is shorter, but I believe it proves a point. What was the question again?...
ro_gan, in the cross over you are refering too Doom puts a mind control device on Hulk, and forces him to fight Superman with it. Superman uses his x-ray vision to find it and his heat vision to destroy it, which essentially ends the fight as Hulk didn't have any beef with Superman after that.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
Superman can do that in so many ways its not even funny.
Or mentioned...apparently.
I have to say that having a concrete example in the movie of Hulk passing out from lack of air that Superman can pretty easily do something like that and the Jolly Green Giant is out for the 10 count.
Superman to round 2.
freakazoid_x
08/24/2004, 16:00
Well Superman would launch a supereffective attack while Hulk would pull his pud and try to imagine a way to rip off a Speilberg movie to beat Superman.
Originally posted by ro_gan
Quick question:
Is this version of Superman (Pre-Crisis and all) capable of moving planets by simply pushing them? He demonstrated time control by reversing the Earth's spin, so can we ASSUME he can physically move a planet as well?
And, if so, where is this battle being fought? Is the war torn world just a chunk of earth free floating in space or is it on Earth or is another abandoned planet? I will need to know this for my tale.
He cannot get out to push it, or fly around it, if that helps.
Well seeing as how this supes includes movie 3 i have to go with the hulk. Some stupid robot thing almost kills superman and richard pryor saving him is a bit of a stretch. Man i got a bad taste in my mouth thinking of that movie. What im essentially getting at here is that movie three powers down superman to where Hulk can beat him and thats facoring in the other 2 movies. Hulk is really powerful and supes 3 brings down supes below hulks lvl of strength and power.
Hulk love Superman 3 gives hulk chance to win.
Oh and one more thing generally superman in the movie did not do any superspeed attacks against his foes especially when he was fighting in number 2. I think superman would face off against Hulk in a fist fight like he did doosmday and lose and im referenceing that fight for this fight as in my mind it would be the same but with hulk winning. Now im not using doosmday superman fight for a reference for how the fight will go just how i think it would be fought out.
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 16:02
Originally posted by Rando
ro_gan, in the cross over you are refering too Doom puts a mind control device on Hulk, and forces him to fight Superman with it. Superman uses his x-ray vision to find it and his heat vision to destroy it, which essentially ends the fight as Hulk didn't have any beef with Superman after that. In that brief fight, Hulk hit Superman and kept hitting him with everything he had while Superman just stood there with a smile on his face.
Originally posted by ro_gan
DTM:
Quick question:
Is this version of Superman (Pre-Crisis and all) capable of moving planets by simply pushing them? He demonstrated time control by reversing the Earth's spin, so can we ASSUME he can physically move a planet as well?
I can actually give you an official answer on this one:grin:
You may notice that the movies listed after Superman are 1, 2 & 3. Four was specifically left off of the list because in that movie Superman moved the moon. DTM felt that this was too powerful for the SHW tournament.
So no, he can't move a planet.
overseeker
08/24/2004, 16:06
Remember all, while it might be tough with two comic characters here, we have to think what their Movie versions would do, how their Movie versions would fight, and using powers and abilities their Movie versions showed only.
DTM, Is this the new rule for all the characters or just certain ones? I've seen this rule flip-flop around and was just wondering. I agree with it mind you, but I've seen far too many instances when it is convenient, where people have been allowed to make too many assumptions, that were not shown in the movies, with the characters involved. Also, that would mean that only the weaknesses shown in the movies can be used. Or is that a matter of convenience as well. With that said, I vote Superman!!! He is equally as strong and durable, but way faster and smarter. Plus he has a vast array of additional powers that the Hulk doesn't.
Oh and i think that illusion thing he pulled off in number 2 was part of the fortress and not superman, just superman programming the fortress to do what wants. So i dont think superman has illusion abilities on top of everything else.
aZrealmusik
08/24/2004, 16:08
Like ro_gan said, even though this was pre-Crisis Superman, he was not even close to the comic version in terms of overall power. The Hulk got his shoulder blown open by a warhead and the wound sealed up in less than 5 seconds. Supermans eye beams would only piss Hulk off, making him stronger. Then Supes, maybe trying to avoid a close-combat situation, would try freeze breathe, which wouldn't have any more affect on the Hulk than the nerve gas or orbit-level atmosphere in the movie. If he tried some little "fly in circles around him to create a vacume" deal, Hulk would only get enraged. He would stick his arm out, catch Supes, and throw him through a wall. It has to come down to Hand-toHand combat. In the comics, I would go with Superman. HOWEVER, in the movie version we are referencing, Hulk would win. Not because I like him more and it wouldn't be an easy win, but for every blown Superman lands, Hulk would get angrier, bigger, and stronger. We never saw any limitation in the movie at all. I think it would be safe to think that the movie version NEVER "plained off." Superman can take some serious damage, but even he has limits. Every time he hits Hulk, it may take a second, but Hulk will completely recover AND get even stronger, thus causing his own blows to do more and more damage. In time, Superman would just get beaten into unconsciousness.
Maybe in rumored upcoming Superman movie his power will be on par with that of the comic. And if he's REALLY lucky, Lois Lane might actually be attractive this time! But I digress...
I vote for HULK to move on to the next round.
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 16:10
Originally posted by SpakSpang
Superman beats the Hulk everytime.
Superman is awesome. He has the strength level from the beginning that Hulk gets only after he gets mad.
The Hulk is not someone that can be beaten to death, but Superman doesn't have to do that. He just has to incap. Hulk. Superman can do that in so many ways its not even funny. I agree. With a MUCH wider array of powers Superman has all kind of options available to him.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 16:11
I always thought that appear-disappear thing was Superspeed, which the villains hadn't figured out yet.
Numb Skrull
08/24/2004, 16:15
Originally posted by aZrealmusik
Like ro_gan said, even though this was pre-Crisis Superman, he was not even close to the comic version in terms of overall power. The Hulk got his shoulder blown open by a warhead and the wound sealed up in less than 5 seconds. Supermans eye beams would only piss Hulk off, making him stronger. Then Supes, maybe trying to avoid a close-combat situation, would try freeze breathe, which wouldn't have any more affect on the Hulk than the nerve gas or orbit-level atmosphere in the movie. If he tried some little "fly in circles around him to create a vacume" deal, Hulk would only get enraged. He would stick his arm out, catch Supes, and throw him through a wall. It has to come down to Hand-toHand combat. In the comics, I would go with Superman. HOWEVER, in the movie version we are referencing, Hulk would win. Not because I like him more and it wouldn't be an easy win, but for every blown Superman lands, Hulk would get angrier, bigger, and stronger. We never saw any limitation in the movie at all. I think it would be safe to think that the movie version NEVER "plained off." Superman can take some serious damage, but even he has limits. Every time he hits Hulk, it may take a second, but Hulk will completely recover AND get even stronger, thus causing his own blows to do more and more damage. In time, Superman would just get beaten into unconsciousness.
Maybe in rumored upcoming Superman movie his power will be on par with that of the comic. And if he's REALLY lucky, Lois Lane might actually be attractive this time! But I digress...
I vote for HULK to move on to the next round.
Thats how I feel about the battle.....
and also for the hope of having an attractive Lois Lane in the next movie.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 16:16
Originally posted by aZrealmusik
If he tried some little "fly in circles around him to create a vacume" deal, Hulk would only get enraged. He would stick his arm out, catch Supes, and throw him through a wall. It has to come down to Hand-toHand combat.
I TOTALLY disagree with this. Even if heat vision is not effective directly, Superman has tons of things to try without worrying about Hulk touching him. Even though Hulk can jump high enough to catch a jet, jets have neither super-hearing nor can turn on a dime. Superman can play cat-and-mouse with Hulk, he can do the funnel trick outside of arm's reach, he can levitate Hulk so that Hulk has no leverage (and hence no attack)-- the no-range thing really hurts Hulk, and Superman is shown to be very, very creative in the movies (absurdly so at times).
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 16:23
Originally posted by odieses
Oh and i think that illusion thing he pulled off in number 2 was part of the fortress and not superman, just superman programming the fortress to do what wants. So i dont think superman has illusion abilities on top of everything else. I'm not so sure. Remember he commented to Lois "I used to play this game in school. I never was very good at it". Obviously he didn't go to school in his fortress. Of course, he may have been jokeing.
VandalSavage
08/24/2004, 16:29
Yes, It is MOVIE Versions...Superman can travel fast enough to TURN BACK TIME!!!! There's no way Hulk will ever see Superman much less hit him....Superman can create such a vacuum within the barrier Hulk will not be able to stand, much less do anything else!!
I vote...Superman!
Mr. Savage
Originally posted by gladiator1518
I'm not so sure. Remember he commented to Lois "I used to play this game in school. I never was very good at it". Obviously he didn't go to school in his fortress. Of course, he may have been jokeing.
At school in Smallville?
Originally posted by VandalSavage
Yes, It is MOVIE Versions...Superman can travel fast enough to TURN BACK TIME!!!! There's no way Hulk will ever see Superman much less hit him....Superman can create such a vacuum within the barrier Hulk will not be able to stand, much less do anything else!!
I vote...Superman!
Mr. Savage
And that was the only time he travelled faster than a
speeding missile. I think it's pretty clear that in building up that speed he didn't really have any degree of directional
control.
Also, as he cannot escape the arena, he probably won't be
able to build up that kind of speed.
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 16:35
Originally posted by NotYou
At school in Smallville? I guess. I don't know. That's why I said he might be jokeing.
thedon99
08/24/2004, 16:36
All right, if it was comics versions, Superman hands down. Since he can't move planets either and even though this is pre-crisis Superman, the movie version is still a lot weaker than the comic version, so i vote Hulk. He went absolutely ape#### in his movie, and in my book the movie made him more durable than he is in the comics. Like many have said, h2h, using these versions, I have to go with Hulk most of the time. i also think Superman's boy scout approach would cost him dearly, especially against this version of Hulk.
Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
I TOTALLY disagree with this. Even if heat vision is not effective directly, Superman has tons of things to try without worrying about Hulk touching him. Even though Hulk can jump high enough to catch a jet, jets have neither super-hearing nor can turn on a dime. Superman can play cat-and-mouse with Hulk, he can do the funnel trick outside of arm's reach, he can levitate Hulk so that Hulk has no leverage (and hence no attack)-- the no-range thing really hurts Hulk, and Superman is shown to be very, very creative in the movies (absurdly so at times).
He can do his big sonic clap to disrupt the funnel.
He has a 25 mile radius arena, FULL of rubble to throw for range.
He can jump high enough to hit the 'roof'.
He was shown almost outrunning gunfire.
These tricks that are mentioned would really just get the Hulk
very p****d off.
HE used the controls in the movie to take away the villains powers most liekly when he was at those controls he used them for illusions. Ok and one more point in the movies or 1-3 superman really never used his abilities on the villians fro mwhat i remember he generally stuck to close combat used his other powes to afftect the area around him usch as freeze a gas tank and along those lines. I wish i could come up with more examples but from ai remember he didnt huse his other abilities for face to face combat but for general means to fave someones life or something else along those lines. Again this plays into the character that is superman he doesnt go fullboard and use every single power at his disposal or else he would win everytime. Thats why i think the fight will be similar to the supes vs. doomsday with supes using his power very little.
Perfectstorm
08/24/2004, 16:44
Hulk wins. Sorry but i can't count the stupid plot powers (ala: turn back time, levitate, super-hypnotism, moving the moon) that are given to superman becuase the writers wrote themselves into a hole. No way in the same movie can supes barly catch a missle, but yet move fast enough to reverse the rotation of the earth.
Supes has alot of extra powers butI doubt the freeze breath would hold hulk, the Heat Vision would only inrage him as hulk healed from a warhead in a could seconds. The regeneration gives Hulk the bigger advatage. If hulk heals from everything supes throws at him, and daamge is stacking up on supes, eventually the big blue boy scout will loose to the big green monseter.
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 16:49
Why does everyone seem to think that anger gives you an advantage in a fight? It doesn't. It negates it. Hulk has to stay angry or eventually he'll revert to Bruce Banner. Superman ALWAYS keeps a clear head in battle. Which the Hulk can't do or else he'll turn into puny Banner. Cool headedness beats uncontrollable rage every time.
HE used the controls in the movie to take away the villains powers most liekly when he was at those controls he used them for illusions. Ok and one more point in the movies or 1-3 superman really never used his abilities on the villians fro mwhat i remember he generally stuck to close combat used his other powes to affect the area around him usch as freeze a gas tank and flying back in time etc. I wish i could come up with more examples but from what i remember he didnt use his other abilities for face to face combat but for general means to save someones life or something else along those lines. Again this plays into the character that is superman he doesnt go fullboard and use every single power at his disposal or else he would win everytime. Thats why i think the fight will be similar to the supes vs. doomsday with supes using his power very little and it turning into a slugfest. Shoot the way i see it, this fight will be almost exactly the same in its duration and way with which it was fought. You could almost take out most of the dialogue and place it here. Shoot even the hulk was silent exactly like doomsday in the film except for a few hulk yells and a big Yeah when he smashed up those tanks which was cool as hell albeit unrealistic with the drivers surviving being flung two football fields.
The Charlatan
08/24/2004, 16:50
Superman
First Superman makes illusions of himself to confuse the Hulk, then TKs him into the air, wraps him up in his peel-away chest symbol, then Super-kisses him to make Hulk forget that Clark Kent is Superman. Or something. Too bad he can't use his 'Rebuilt the Great Wall of China' vision, because that was in IV. Well, it doesn't matter, because Superman can still fly fast enough to go back in time, but not fast enough to catch up to a nuclear missle flying at mere MACH speeds.
Hey, I just realized that without the lens of nostalgia, even Superman I&II are pretty stupid at times!
Ignatz_Mouse
08/24/2004, 16:53
Wait till we get some perspective on the current super-films.
Only the 1966 Batman holds up, becuase it was *supposed* to be campy, even at the time.
thedon99
08/24/2004, 16:56
I think anger does hold anyone back, especially when your opponent is cool-headed, and is the Man of Steel. However, not Hulk. Anger makes him stronger and tougher, so how can that be a disadvantage to him?
Well anger is definently an advantage for Hulk in a fight because it makes him get stronger. Maybe not for normal people, that don't get stronger when enraged (at least not beyond the limits of adreneline), but Hulk's powers increase with anger and as such, it is an advantage.
As to clarify to DTM im voting for Hulk for reasons i have stated above.
thedon99
08/24/2004, 17:00
Exactly. Just what I said. Plus the fact, that if he loses his anger he turns back into Banner, how can that be an advantage?
Paradox Factor
08/24/2004, 17:01
I have to go with Hulk. If Supes puts everything into one massive hit at the start of the fight, he could take Hulk down. If this fight goes on for more than a few minutes, Hulk has it. His rage keeps him strong, and his healing factor patches him up. Superman would eventualy tire out, while the Hulk is stronger then ever.
not sure if this was covered..
the arena is 25 miles wide.... is it also 25 miles straight up?
Rokk_Krinn
08/24/2004, 17:02
Once again to everyone saying Superman can't beat the Hulk physically...
That's fine, but the movie version of Superman really _does_ have super-fast super-hypnosis. That's the ultimate attack to use against the Hulk.
TheUltimates
08/24/2004, 17:09
Originally posted by hail_eris
Sweet lord, and you thought the SW vs. LotR conflict was bad? Welcome to a new hell. While twelve-foot tall Hulk of the movie was a beast, I think Supes could neutralize him in any number of ways - freeze him with arctic breath, inhale and remove the air out from the arena to make him revert to Banner, etc. Flight is a *huge* advantage, as is Clark's ability to retain his intellect when in fighting mode. While I'm voting for Superman, I think the real winner of this battle will be DTM's ulcer...
O ####...you made me drop my laptop because I was laughing to hard.
Sure Supes is supes...but did he ever fight anyone like Hulk?
Sure he fought Zod and the other 2...but they never actually came at him straight on.
Also...he never beat them totally on his own. He had to trick them into a defeat.
Also them knowing about each other before the fight starts...Superman has nothing to defeat Hulk. Betty is the only thing that made him revert back. That's it. Hulk took on a M1A1's direct shot to the chest and STILL came after the ####ed thing and riped the top off. He even deflected a shot from one. Those things shoot at HIGH velocities. I think supes would be taken down if he was shot with one of those because he never showed that much prowess in the movies.
I can see Hulk taking this whole thing. Even Godzilla. Just because his movie version is so powerfull. I can't wait to see him in the next movie
TheUltimates
08/24/2004, 17:11
That would be a good fight..
The Gamma Creature VS The Nuclear Creature
SpakSpang
08/24/2004, 17:16
Hulk will get stronger, but he doesn't get smarter from the anger. He gets more powerful.
Superman's biggest advantage is that he is going to have a strength advantage from the beginning.
Superman just needs to incap Hulk, or stay away from the Hulk until he calms down.
Superman doesn't even have to fight. he can just avoid Hulk or fly to where he isn't able to be caught and wait.
Superman is easily as strong or stronger than the Hulk at his highest level. He may not be as resilent as the hulk is, but Superman won't need to be. He can easily avoid the attacks the Hulk can throw at him (literally since Superman will be flying.)
Hulk doesn't have a "highest" level of strength, it just keeps going up, so no Superman is not stronger then him. Superman may have the power advantage early on but Hulk will get angrier and therefore stronger. Also is Supes keeps dicking around just out of Hulk's reach, it will piss him off more, not calm him down. As far as the heat vision goes, I would say that it would hurt the Hulk, especially if targeted at a weak point, but Superman doesn't have the malice in him to want to mess up the Hulk that bad, while Hulk can't control what he is doing, and therefore won't feel sad when he feeds Superman his spine.
Superman is easily as strong or stronger than the Hulk at his highest level. He may not be as resilent as the hulk is, but Superman won't need to be. He can easily avoid the attacks the Hulk can throw at him (literally since Superman will be flying.)
Actually I would dispute this - movie Hulk is not shown, in any way, to have an upper limit on his rage-fueled strength. He just keeps getting bigger, and stronger, and laying down the smack. Keeping solely to the movies there is no "highest level" of strength established for the Hulk. I want to watch Hulk again before making my final vote, though.
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 17:27
Originally posted by thedon99
I think anger does hold anyone back, especially when your opponent is cool-headed, and is the Man of Steel. However, not Hulk. Anger makes him stronger and tougher, so how can that be a disadvantage to him? Anger makes him stronger AND tougher? My bad. I thought it only made him stronger. In that case, you may be correct. Getting madder will help him win.
However, I don't think he'll get anywhere near Superman's power level before Supes KO's him. Don't forget, according to the rules of this tournament the combatants have their adversary's movies downloaded into their brain. This would benefit Supes alot more than it would the green giant since Supes is MUCH more intelligent. Superman would know right from the start to go all out and not holding anything back.
VandalSavage
08/24/2004, 17:34
Exactly...If Superman just hangs around the top of the arena...Hulk will go back to normal...
It is SUCH A JOKE THAT THE Hulk Followers say that Superman's Abilities don't count because he only used them once or because it was a plot point....HE DID IT>>>GET OVER IT....Whether you Agree with it or not Superman travelled fast enough to REVERSE the DIRECTION of the Earth...Just as a reminder...Superman is roughly six foot tall and weighs maybe 300 lbs....The earth weighs 6.5 Billion Trillion Tons...To move that, Superman would be moving at Unbelievable Speeds...The Sonic Clap moves at the speed of sound...Much slower than Superman is going....
Mr. Savage
gladiator1518
08/24/2004, 17:34
Originally posted by Paradox Factor
I have to go with Hulk. If Supes puts everything into one massive hit at the start of the fight, he could take Hulk down. If this fight goes on for more than a few minutes, Hulk has it. I strongly disagree. Even IF Supes didn't go all out from the start(which I believe he would after having Hulk's movie downloaded into his brain) it would take Hulk a VERY long time to get near Superman's strength level. Superman doesn't start off just a little bit stronger than Hulk but alot stronger.
when dtm or grinner get a chance... i need a height on the arena.
i'm assuming 25 miles... but i want an official measurement.
thanks :)
I believe that Superman will be able to stay out of Hulk's reach long enough for Supes to either wear Hulk down or wait until Hulk reverts back to Banner. Having seen the Hulk movie, Superman will know that the Hulk gets stronger the angrier he gets and thus will know not to try and provoke his opponent.
My vote for Superman.
Kal - El II
08/24/2004, 18:03
Superman moves at close to the speed of light, grabs the Hulk by the arm, and flings him to Neptune before the Hulk even knows what happened.
Hulk did not even come close to out-running bullets in the movie. The bullets were missing him.
Sonic Claps? He is slightly slower than the speed of light.
The Hulk is going to throw rocks at Superman? C'mon.
Originally posted by VandalSavage
Exactly...If Superman just hangs around the top of the arena...Hulk will go back to normal...
It is SUCH A JOKE THAT THE Hulk Followers say that Superman's Abilities don't count because he only used them once or because it was a plot point....HE DID IT>>>GET OVER IT....Whether you Agree with it or not Superman travelled fast enough to REVERSE the DIRECTION of the Earth...Just as a reminder...Superman is roughly six foot tall and weighs maybe 300 lbs....The earth weighs 6.5 Billion Trillion Tons...To move that, Superman would be moving at Unbelievable Speeds...The Sonic Clap moves at the speed of sound...Much slower than Superman is going....
Mr. Savage
Travelling around the world is such that he can fly in an
approximate straight line, and build up speed.
Travelling in a circle that is what?...20 foot in diameter?
is not likely to give the same opportunity.
I'm thinking that in Superman 2, his best bet would have
been to hit the 3 Kryptonians hard and fast, taking full
advantage of his experience with his powers, and not
allowing them time to get used to theirs.
A bit like not letting the Hulk get madder.
Well lookee here...he didn't do that.
Further...he didn't zip round the world a few times to turn
back time and give it another shot.
We really need to get DTM to rule on whether or not the end of Superman II counts, if it does the magic users who were promoted as the anti-Supes are useless because he traverses the arena before they even think to blink.
Originally posted by Kal - El II
Superman moves at close to the speed of light, grabs the Hulk by the arm, and flings him to Neptune before the Hulk even knows what happened.
Hulk did not even come close to out-running bullets in the movie. The bullets were missing him.
Sonic Claps? He is slightly slower than the speed of light.
The Hulk is going to throw rocks at Superman? C'mon.
If Movie Superman could move this fast, he would've
saved Lois, without the absurd turning back time by spinning
the Earth the wrong way trick.
He didn't because under normal circumstances, Movie
Superman doesn't move that quickly.
Superman is just more versatile here, i think hed eventually put hulk down for the count.
Vote: Superman
hehe
i love this.
some characters are given powers and items that they never display in movies.
some characters are given powers that we can assume they can do based on what weaker versions of that character can do.
superman is having powers that he actually displayed in movies taken away.
Same as in the comics, superman has the potential to fight really really fast, but he just dosent. Its not the way he does buisness and it never has. So dont give me this superspeed to neptune stuff, cause that has absolutely no basis.
TheUltimates
08/24/2004, 18:17
I remember saying something that Supes couldn't do stuff like moving around the Earth.
That was just a stupid plot twist to get viewers to be like "WOW...supes can move the Earth."
Originally posted by Goose
Same as in the comics, superman has the potential to fight really really fast, but he just dosent. Its not the way he does buisness and it never has. So dont give me this superspeed to neptune stuff, cause that has absolutely no basis.
Yes...and if he could, then with Lois' life on the line,
why on earth did he not?
dramatic effect
seriously, regardless of weather or not *you* like the powers, he still displayed them in the movies allowed by dtm.
just because you think it's stupid that supes can fly around the world and turn back time, or that he can cause amnesia by kissing someone... too bad.
actual movie powers for a contestant in a movie tournament.
Movie Hulk was a better fighter than movie Supes as I remember. I'll give a vote to Hulk.
Okay.
Run 100 metres on a straight track.
Then run 100 metres by going 10 times round a circular
10 metre track.
I'm guessing your ability to build speed on the straight track
will enable you to do it quicker.
Now as he took many thousands of miles to build that speed,
which he doesn't have here by the way, I'm guessing that he
hasn't been shown to have a super speed ability that he
could use in this combat.
so your saying that he doesn't even have super speed?
one of the most basic of all superman's powers?
the whole "faster than a speeding bullet" bit?
thats reaching.
Firstly...he doesn't have thousands upon thousands of miles
to build up speed.
Secondly being faster than a speeding bullet, (as was shown
by him eventually being able to catch rockets) is
significantly slower than the 'light speed' that has been
claimed, and far more easy for Hulk to catch.
So the only reaching involved is when Hulk jumps, catches,
and batters Superman, after getting wound up by him trying
to stay out of range.
And yeah...now I think that, that is a vote.
cool
i'll have to remember the "these powers don't count because they're stupid" argument.
it'll come in handy next round.
and if you think hulk jumps fast enough to catch supes midflight... ok.
Originally posted by jedah_s
i'll have to remember the "these powers don't count because they're stupid" argument.
What is this refering to?
If you're talking about me denying he could use time
reversing speed, read the posts again.
He needs a massive run up to use this...which he simply
does not have.
Maniac_nmt
08/24/2004, 18:55
I dunno, the movie superman didn't really use that superspeed in fights all that much.
The movie hulk also has limitless power that not even the comic hulk routinely displays. (the whole massive gama release at the end).
Radiation is a weakness of movie Superman, and even radioactive natured guys hurt pretty bad.
Given that vulnerability to radiation, and radiation spawned beings, I must vote with the hulk.
Christopher Reeves was awesome as Superman, with some pretty amazing abilities. Hulk is probably the only bruiser I could see beating him, largely due to his limitless, and faster hulking up, plus his radioactive nature, and the fact he can spam an area with it.
movie hulk just didn't release radiation at will.
absorbing man was leeching off his powers.... and hulk gave 'sorby all of them.
he doesn't just "spam an area with it"
Maniac_nmt
08/24/2004, 19:01
Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Once again to everyone saying Superman can't beat the Hulk physically...
That's fine, but the movie version of Superman really _does_ have super-fast super-hypnosis. That's the ultimate attack to use against the Hulk.
shrug, for quite a while superman is going to be physically stronger then the hulk (although the movie version really seems to 'hulk up' a lot faster then the comic version).
What's the kicker is that the hulk will be able to hurt him, and it will hurt worse then the equivalent punch as Radiation, and radiation related super beings are very very bad news for movie superman.
Kal - El II
08/24/2004, 19:02
Each movie has been downloaded into their opponents brain, right?
Supes knows that Hulk can take the abuse. Hulk knows he's Hulk. Supes, in my opinion, knows his major advantage is the speed that he displayed in 1 when he moved so fast he turned back time!!
Goose...I recall someone mentioning that when Supes fought Doomsday no one could see them b/c they were both moving so fast. Moral of the story, when he fights an opponent with superspeed he'll use his superspeed. When he feels he needs to stop certain uberpowerful enemies he will take it upon himself to stop them (General Zod and Manchester Black).
And this mumbo-jumbo about him not being able to stop the Missle. He thought he could, he didn't push himself, Lois died. He learned his lesson. If Hulk does try catching Superman in mid-air, Supes will bore a hole in him. Either way he loses.
I thoroughly enjoyed the Hulk Movie, but there's no way Hulk wins. Supes cracks the Hulk upside the head with such force that Bruce Banner comes poppin' out like a baby out of the Hulk's rectal sphincter.
Maniac_nmt
08/24/2004, 19:04
Originally posted by jedah_s
movie hulk just didn't release radiation at will.
absorbing man was leeching off his powers.... and hulk gave 'sorby all of them.
he doesn't just "spam an area with it"
shrug, nuklor or whatever his name was, worked the S'man because his strength was radiation derived.
The hulk does just 'spam' the area with it. His father is trying to take it, and the hulk's reply is to just say fine, here, take it all, and give it all off (which he can't do as it's limitless) in an area 'spaming' attack/effect.
Kal - El II
08/24/2004, 19:08
Maniac_nmt - What was that last bit about Radiation? Was Hulk changed into the Hulk by Kryptonite Radiation?
The only (at least to my knowledge) radiation that affects Supes is Kryptonite Radiation and, I guess, Magic Radiation. Neither of which Hulk can produce by punching. If you're talking about that goofy Solar Being in IV, he doesn't count. This isn't the Superman from IV.
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
shrug, nuklor or whatever his name was, worked the S'man because his strength was radiation derived.
The hulk does just 'spam' the area with it. His father is trying to take it, and the hulk's reply is to just say fine, here, take it all, and give it all off (which he can't do as it's limitless) in an area 'spaming' attack/effect.
nuklor (or whatever) is movie 4
this is superman movie 1 thru 3... as per the toc rules :)
and hulk does not spam the area.
'sorby is leeching hulks power.... and hulk force feeds 'sorby.
he hulks up and 'sorby can't *stop* absorbing.
he doesn't give off radiation constatnly, or at will.
if he did it constantly betty would be bald and dying of cancer.
Originally posted by Kal - El II
Goose...I recall someone mentioning that when Supes fought Doomsday no one could see them b/c they were both moving so fast. Moral of the story, when he fights an opponent with superspeed he'll use his superspeed. When he feels he needs to stop certain uberpowerful enemies he will take it upon himself to stop them (General Zod and Manchester Black).
And this mumbo-jumbo about him not being able to stop the Missle. He thought he could, he didn't push himself, Lois died. He learned his lesson. If Hulk does try catching Superman in mid-air, Supes will bore a hole in him. Either way he loses.
The moral of the story comes from Movies however...not comics.
So, you believe he was happy to risk that Lois would be
killed, and just didn't feel like working a sweat up?
you can't take a power away from superman simply because of the need for drama in the movie.
lois had to die.
drama.
Well, he'll probably feel the need for drama here too.
i think he'd feel the need to advance.
lois isn't around.
heck no one's around to endanger.
Nah...he'll be worrying about Lois, and will want to go home.
Originally posted by Grinner
I have to say that having a concrete example in the movie of Hulk passing out from lack of air that Superman can pretty easily do something like that and the Jolly Green Giant is out for the 10 count.
Superman to round 2.
The Hulk didn't pass out. He just got a little woozy and lost his grip. His eyes were open all the way down to atmospheric pressure and subsequently into the ocean.
ro_gan: his eyes were open... and rolled back in his skull.
hulk passed out.
notyou: if he's worried about lois, then i guess he better win the tourney faster.
thinking he'd throw a fight to get back home quicker is completely out of character.
As is using Super Speed during a Movie fight.
Originally posted by jedah_s
...he doesn't give off radiation constatnly, or at will.
if he did it constantly betty would be bald and dying of cancer.
Actually, in the comic, Peter David's final 2-3 issues to be specific, Betty did die of constant low level gamma radiation poisoning. It was later horribly ret-conned that the Abomination did it to make the Hulk think he was responsible. Man! The worst thing Marvel EVER did was remove PAD from the Hulk as his BEST writer EVER!
Bonecrusher
08/24/2004, 19:30
I'd have to vote for Hulk. We can debate what powers should or should not be allowed or assumed forever. When it comes to the movie version of Superman, he just didn't have the killer instinct it would take to put the Hulk down.
turning back time speed....
not faster than a speeding bullet speed.
if your taking away superman's super speed, then you may as well take away the strength and invulnerability...
thats just funny.
Originally posted by NotYou
The moral of the story comes from Movies however...not comics.
So, you believe he was happy to risk that Lois would be
killed, and just didn't feel like working a sweat up?
Actually, Supes didn't catch the missile that killed Lois because that is what makes drama and tension and feeds the plot device.
Blame the writer/director for that, not Kal-El.
Originally posted by ro_gan
Actually, in the comic, Peter David's final 2-3 issues to be specific, Betty did die of constant low level gamma radiation poisoning. It was later horribly ret-conned that the Abomination did it to make the Hulk think he was responsible. Man! The worst thing Marvel EVER did was remove PAD from the Hulk as his BEST writer EVER!
hey look at that..
"in the comic"
outside source :)
Originally posted by jedah_s
turning back time speed....
not faster than a speeding bullet speed.
if your taking away superman's super speed, then you may as well take away the strength and invulnerability...
thats just funny.
Yeah that'd be like taking a comic character...and making a
film character out of him.
yeah except the film character actually displayed these powers.
When did he fight at super speeds?
well when he reversed time for one lol.
i'm sure there are others.
haven't seen the movies in ages.
if the magic vulnerability is allowed by dtm because "it's part of his mythos"
then "faster than a speeding bullet" should be allowed.
oops soory read that as flight
Once round the world is approximately 40000 km.
Does he have a 40000 km run up here?
No.
He's fast, yes. Faster than Hulk, sure.
But his speed is not an overwhelming factor here.
Originally posted by Grinner
I can actually give you an official answer on this one:grin:
You may notice that the movies listed after Superman are 1, 2 & 3. Four was specifically left off of the list because in that movie Superman moved the moon. DTM felt that this was too powerful for the SHW tournament.
So no, he can't move a planet.
Thanks, Grinner!
This saves me from eventually writing that Superman just pushes the battle planet/field into a nearby sun, thus ending the battle.
And that wasn't fighting.
It was flying in what approximates a straight line.
And it took more than one lap to build up speed.
In fact it took a hell of a lot of laps.
Only has 25 miles to play with here.
so once around the world is 40,000 km.
and he did that pretty fast on the first pass.
imagine how fast he could get across a 25 mile span.
if a car goes zero to sixty in 5 seconds, does that mean going zero to 50 takes longer?
super speed is still super speed.
and going any amount faster than the hulk is an advantage especially if the jolly green mouth breather can't lay a hand on him.
Rokk_Krinn
08/24/2004, 19:47
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
shrug, nuklor or whatever his name was, worked the S'man because his strength was radiation derived.
Part of the problem with this arguement is that it takes into affect a movie not considered "legal" for this tournament and part of Nuklor's powers involved "red sun radiation" I believe. If Superman IV counts than he's strong enough to move the moon at whim. Hulk's got a _lot_ of catch-up to do.
As for the "take it" part of Hulk giving his pop the radiation - I didn't interpret that as a release so much as Hulk stopped fighting the absorption which led to overload on elder Banner's part.
gotta run for the night
later all
brendanbrown
08/24/2004, 19:51
Originally posted by jedah_s
so once around the world is 40,000 km.
and he did that pretty fast on the first pass.
imagine how fast he could get across a 25 mile span.
if a car goes zero to sixty in 5 seconds, does that mean going zero to 50 takes longer?
super speed is still super speed.
and going any amount faster than the hulk is an advantage especially if the jolly green mouth breather can't lay a hand on him.
Or if a car can go 0-60 in five seconds, in 40 feet, can it accomplish the same goal in 5 feet? Will it ever be able to go 60mph in a five-foot area?(assuming the car has relatively no length, for scale purposes)
Why do you think they try to break land speed records on
huge open stretches of straight road?
Because building up speed takes time and space.
If you're lacking either, it becomes harder to build up full speed.
For the umpteenth time...he doesn't have the space to
achieve those kinds of speeds.
Sure a car might be able to do 0 to 60 in 5 seconds, given
a sufficient length of road...but what if it only has half the
distance?
BrendanBrown says it nicely.
darkphoenix226
08/24/2004, 20:12
A. I figured DTM would rule that Hulk wouldn't ever turn back into banner. I wanna know if this is true or not, cause it seemed like back in the HW comp. He ruled that Dracula didn't have to sleep. So wouldn't hulk not ever have to turn into banner? I dunno, I'm just curious.
B. Hulk, even if he can turn into banner. I don't think superman is able to go THAT fast normally because of the fact that when he did it, it was his emotions reacting, making him go ballistic, trying anything. So, he tried it and was able to do it. But the point is, unless Hulk kills Lois Lane, I doubt he'll be strong enough. Also:
*Superman flies towards hulk, then goes straight upwards*
*Superman is thrown down to the Earth by the hulk in the air*
WHAT?!? Yeah, he can jump freakin far, and I'm sure if he tried to he could jump high. Superman starts to go into the air, Hulk jumps up grabs him and slams him into the Earth. This hulk is mean, and there's no way supes is gonna match him. It's gonna be quick once Hulk gets mad enough. Bye bye Superman.
Vote for Hulk.
Maniac_nmt
08/24/2004, 20:24
very well, if we take out out superman 4, I must swap up to the hulk.
Although pre-crisis supes' vulnerability to radiation is almost as known as his 'vulnerability' to magic (although according to the DCU role-playing, he is actually less invulnerable, and weaker to magic, just pitching that out since everyone always says 'he never was less invulnerable to magic' and what not).
shrug....sad to see something we know really kicked the hell out of supes tossed out.
Although, I certainly wouldn't call the movie hulk dumb, or slow. He fought a lot faster then supes, who tended to telegraph his moves and stand arround and take things on the chin. Hulk at least has super hearing in his flick, and the brains to use it when he jumps on the jet fighter after the pilot radios he's out of control/going to crash. While he only says one sentence in the movie, it's not the mono syllibic hulk we know from the comic. I rather get the impression he's not all that dumb, but rather that his rage occasionally keeps him from thinking the clearest.
JesseJames
08/24/2004, 20:44
Hulk laughed off Nuclear Missles that reduced miles to nothing.
His strength and toughness has no limits.
He leaps 3-4 miles at a time.
The Hulk actually isnt slow at all, he moves pretty fast in the movie. Not Superman fast, but fast enough.
Hulk takes it. Superman will eventually have to face Hulk HTH, and NO ONE matches Hulk hand to hand, safe for the Juggernaut.
green_knight
08/24/2004, 20:50
Originally posted by NotYou
Or mentioned...apparently.
Superman can use his TK to hold the Hulk in the air and shoot him with heat vision till he's out.
Superman can throw that stupid "S" shield and hold Hulk with it. Then use ice breath while Hulk struggles to get out. That "S" shield held Nob, a brutally strong Kryptonian.
Superman can play the illusion game with Hulk, like he did in the fortress of solitude, till he takes him out.
Superman can hit him FIRST, at full power, and take him out before Hulk has enough time to get angry and become too resistant to Superman's superior (initially) force.
Hulk needs to breath, as shown in the movie. So Supes could put the "S" shield around his head, and freeze him. By the time Hulk breaks out, Supes will have superheated all the air in the arena and caused the oxygen to combust. Then all he has to do is play the illusion game or move at super speed (the kind he used to change really fast before anyone noticed) to stay out of his range till he passes out.
Superman can kiss him and make him forget something important, like why he's in the arena, like he did to Lois to make her forget his secret identity.
Are these enough ways yet?
green_knight
08/24/2004, 20:58
And if people are voting that since Gandalf can communicate with Godzilla, that he can talk him out of being hostile, then consider that Clark's charm and honest face would be enough to talk the Hulk down to being Banner.
Hey, lots of people seem to think it would work.
JesseJames
08/24/2004, 20:58
This may sound cliche...but...
I dont think anything Supes can do will do anything more then p*ss the Hulk off.
Supes heat vision is nothing compared to a nuclear missle, which Hulk shrugged off with his healing in less then five seconds.
JesseJames
08/24/2004, 21:02
Originally posted by green_knight
Superman can use his TK to hold the Hulk in the air and shoot him with heat vision till he's out.
Superman can throw that stupid "S" shield and hold Hulk with it. Then use ice breath while Hulk struggles to get out. That "S" shield held Nob, a brutally strong Kryptonian.
Superman can play the illusion game with Hulk, like he did in the fortress of solitude, till he takes him out.
Superman can hit him FIRST, at full power, and take him out before Hulk has enough time to get angry and become too resistant to Superman's superior (initially) force.
Hulk needs to breath, as shown in the movie. So Supes could put the "S" shield around his head, and freeze him. By the time Hulk breaks out, Supes will have superheated all the air in the arena and caused the oxygen to combust. Then all he has to do is play the illusion game or move at super speed (the kind he used to change really fast before anyone noticed) to stay out of his range till he passes out.
Superman can kiss him and make him forget something important, like why he's in the arena, like he did to Lois to make her forget his secret identity.
Are these enough ways yet?
Superman could hit the Hulk first...but unless that punch is capable of dealing damage at least twice that of a Nuclear Missle barrage, Hulk isnt going down.
Im not sure what the "s" shield is, however, if Superman has to get in the HTH range to do it...Hulk is going to batter Superman, or force Superman to back off.
Same for the kiss. Heck, Hulk would GET REALLY PISSED if Superman kissed him:p
Hulk takes this one. It will be a tough fight but the movie Hulk was a mean and powerful monster. He never stopped and just took everything the army could dish out and then just shrugged it off. Superman doesn't have that killer instinct to win this one. This Hulk doesn't seem to have a limit in strength, keeps regenerating faster and faster and has some good super speed being able to run at 300mph, its not Superman speed but it shows hes not slow. Hulk will grab Supes and then when its HTH it will be over.
Originally posted by green_knight
And if people are voting that since Gandalf can communicate with Godzilla, that he can talk him out of being hostile, then consider that Clark's charm and honest face would be enough to talk the Hulk down to being Banner.
Hey, lots of people seem to think it would work.
I dont really think this would work. In the movie only Betty could calm him down and that was because Banner was in love with her and would never hurt her. Superman may be a girlie man but still he is no Betty:p
JesseJames
08/24/2004, 21:16
Didnt Wonder Women have a movie...at least a T.V. movie?
She should have been here.
brendanbrown
08/24/2004, 21:35
back to the radiation argument, when Hulk is in the trees fighting the dogs, he yells and a green mist surrounds him. That may be him releasing gamma rays, or it may just be for cool effects.
VandalSavage
08/24/2004, 22:04
Originally posted by NotYou
The moral of the story comes from Movies however...not comics.
So, you believe he was happy to risk that Lois would be
killed, and just didn't feel like working a sweat up?
He had NO IDEA that Lois was going to Die....HE would have been faster...And what basis are you using that he can't build up that speed within a 25 MILE track....Let's see one turn every 25 miles...That's not hard for Superman.....Hulk DOES NOT release Radiation....
Mr. Savage
TheUltimates
08/24/2004, 22:06
I thought this was about Hulk and Supes...not a diccusion about how fast someone can go. changing the rotation of the Earth is stupid and has no relievence:SP: on this*
Prof. Aragorn
08/24/2004, 22:07
Originally posted by hail_eris
Sweet lord, and you thought the SW vs. LotR conflict was bad? Welcome to a new hell. While twelve-foot tall Hulk of the movie was a beast, I think Supes could neutralize him in any number of ways - freeze him with arctic breath, inhale and remove the air out from the arena to make him revert to Banner, etc. Flight is a *huge* advantage, as is Clark's ability to retain his intellect when in fighting mode. While I'm voting for Superman, I think the real winner of this battle will be DTM's ulcer...
Yeah, by the end of this tournament-his ulcers will have ulcers...
I vote Superman-He tries to reason with Hulk who just wants to smash-something goes wrong and Superman charges Hulk and hits him hard. Hulk is pissed off and belts Kal through a bombed out building. Hulk is pushing while Superman's on the defense-using superspeed, tossing walls and blown out cars. Nothing is being done except make Hulk madder. Hulk smashes Supes to the ground who now isn't in a good mood and one ssssss later, Hulk is out from either a labotomy or just being hit with heat laser vision.
The Hulk is the strongest there is-in the Marvel Universe, Superman is much stronger I didn't even touch on the fact that he can move at the speeds of Neo and Agent Smith.
VandalSavage
08/24/2004, 22:10
As said before....There is no one in this Tourney that can match Supes Speed shown in the Films....He changed an already turning earth by moving around it....He is roughly 300lbs...The earth weighs 6.5 Billion Trillion TONS!!!
Mr. Savage
Nobodyspecial
08/24/2004, 22:25
Superman wins
Although I want to vote for Hulk, because i have NEVER liked Superman, I have to vote for the Blue Boy. Hulk won't hurt him much, and he has too many ways to take him down. ie. cold breath, heat vision, brute strengh...
The Hulk can't stay angry forever and would probaly wear out long before superman. Superman, above all else, has the power of desperation. He's able to muster up all his strength, to give 110%, to over come whatever is set before him. That's why Supes is Earth's Champion. No matter how down and out he is, he'll pull out a victory.
Vote Superman
Speed, range, and flight will nearly always beat a slower, grounded fighter.
Maniac_nmt
08/24/2004, 23:31
sorry, that would be since superman 4 is disallowed, and thus the radiation weakness goes out the window, I will side with
Christopher Reeves
Maniac_nmt
08/24/2004, 23:44
Originally posted by VandalSavage
As said before....There is no one in this Tourney that can match Supes Speed shown in the Films....He changed an already turning earth by moving around it....He is roughly 300lbs...The earth weighs 6.5 Billion Trillion TONS!!!
Mr. Savage
it's pretty pointless though, he had the entire world to fly around to build up speed, He's not reaching anywhere near those speeds in a 25 mile arena.
What helps him out are super breath, his strength (being much greater then hulk's to start), super-hypnotism (even if he can't calm the hulk down and turn him into banner, which I don't see a problem with, but if DTM does...'eh, he can calm him down to a point where he can ko him by letting totally loose or freezing him, whatever, he gets pretty small in the film before turning into banner, the big jabroney version though would work supes pretty good for a good long time).
Heat Vision is kind of meh', Hulk regenerates pretty dang fast.
Let's not forget the Hulk did catch a missile and bat'ed a few away in his flick. Given that most missiles do travel at speeds over Mach 1, that's pretty good reflexes (not super-man level speed, but pretty dang good, and certainly not the slow, uncoordinated brute some make him out to be). He also runs fast enough to generate enough centripetal force to defy gravity.
Supes, acting in character, will talk hulk down. Number one, after punching him a few times, and seeing he's not a puny human, and if Clark makes no overly agressive plays, he'll settle a bit arround him, enough for clark's goofy super-hypnotism to calm him down to the point he could freeze the hulk for 10 seconds, or he could get him into a place he could drain the oxygen out of and cause him to collapse for 10 seconds.
It wouldn't work twice, but Clark doesn't need twice, and since he now has no vulnerability to radiation (since 4 is right out), he can get close enough to the hulk to do it.
Supes is seen flying into space several times in the movies... besides the "Spin the Earth in the opposite direction to turn back time" trip.
So here's a fun fact.
To escape the Earth's gravitational pull, an object must reach a velocity of 24,840 miles per hour (11,180 m/sec).
25 miles apart equals 40,233.6 meters apart.
At 11,1180 meters per second Supes could travel 25 miles in .36 seconds.
You want to prove he doesn't have supert speed to me?
How long does the first trip around the Earth take him? Just the first trip. Rent the movie and time it.
Now however fast that was.... realize, that he had to reach a speed of 11,180 meters per second (24,840 mph) just to get into space.
Now traveling at 24,840 mph he should be able to travel around the entire glode in a little over an hour (the Earth is roughly 24,900 miles around).
In the movie, does his first trip around the earth take an hour? No.
How about the second? No.
The third? No.
So it's safe to say he's traveling faster than that on the first trip, and each trip was getting faster.
If he's capable of acheiving those speeds in such a short amount of time, tell me again that he doesn't have super speed.
Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
Shin-- he levitates the big dumb Kryptonian with a beam in II. It was rather upsetting to a comics purist seeing Superman use a power he did not have in the comics (especially when he has so many already!).
Maybe youre thinking about Zod TK lifting the country bumpkin instead?
Originally posted by ro_gan
Also, according to Peter David (long time Hulk writer), the Hulk has no limit to how strong he can get. The movie brings this out even moreso.
Superman is already at his limit. He is as strong as he can be. Albeit, that is WAY strong. But, the Hulk, with no limit, will eventually out class Superman's power levels. The question thus is, can The Hulk last long enough to go all uber over the Kryptonian's hide?
DTM:
Quick question:
Is this version of Superman (Pre-Crisis and all) capable of moving planets by simply pushing them? He demonstrated time control by reversing the Earth's spin, so can we ASSUME he can physically move a planet as well?
And, if so, where is this battle being fought? Is the war torn world just a chunk of earth free floating in space or is it on Earth or is another abandoned planet? I will need to know this for my tale.
No, this Superman cannot move planets, which is why we didnt include Superman 4 in his list of films, since in there he did in fact move the Moon. Since Superman 4 is not allowed, we can only use facts from the first 3 films, where he was still Pre Crisis but not as powerful as his comic book Pre Crisis version.
And its being fought in a war torn world of the future Earth, BUT there is a force field around the arena to prevent anyone from simply flying a character into space and leaving them there. That has been a rule since the Very First Vs Battle Ive done.
Originally posted by VandalSavage
Yes, It is MOVIE Versions...Superman can travel fast enough to TURN BACK TIME!!!! There's no way Hulk will ever see Superman much less hit him....Superman can create such a vacuum within the barrier Hulk will not be able to stand, much less do anything else!!
I vote...Superman!
Mr. Savage
Superman never moved even close to this fast every before or again, and only did so when the Love Of His Life was killed in an effort to bring her back. Also, with the arena only 25 miles wide, Superman wouldnt have close to enough room to use this speed effectively.
Not siding with Hulk, just pointing out things here and there as I see them,.
Originally posted by jedah_s
not sure if this was covered..
the arena is 25 miles wide.... is it also 25 miles straight up?
I would assume so, yes.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 01:15
Originally posted by JesseJames
Superman could hit the Hulk first...but unless that punch is capable of dealing damage at least twice that of a Nuclear Missle barrage, Hulk isnt going down.
Im not sure what the "s" shield is, however, if Superman has to get in the HTH range to do it...Hulk is going to batter Superman, or force Superman to back off.
Same for the kiss. Heck, Hulk would GET REALLY PISSED if Superman kissed him:p
JJ, you didn't see Superman II? The "S" shield is the "S" off his chest. He threw it a good distance, and apparently fast enough that a Kryptonian didn't dodge it. It looked like a plastic, folding "S" shield that wrapped around Nob.
As for kissing him, you never know....Supes could probably make him even forget Betty. Its not like Hulk has much of a brain in there anyway.
Let's see, more super speed info for DTM.
Supes spun really fast, fast enough to drill a hole in the street and go underground.
When he was just starting out, as a "weak" kid, he outran a locomotive.
Then later there's the whole "leaving earth's atmosphere" which he does many times in the first 3 movies. And as Jedah_S pointed out, that's FAST.
Hey Jedah, any idea what kind of pressure you have to exert to turn coal into diamond? I'm sure its huge, and Supes did it with his bare hand, in a matter of seconds.
Also, DTM, someone was mentioning what Peter David said about the Hulk's power being limitless. That never occurred in the movie and is therefore indadmissable.
Originally posted by TheUltimates
O ####...you made me drop my laptop because I was laughing to hard.
Sure Supes is supes...but did he ever fight anyone like Hulk?
Sure he fought Zod and the other 2...but they never actually came at him straight on.
Also...he never beat them totally on his own. He had to trick them into a defeat.
Also them knowing about each other before the fight starts...Superman has nothing to defeat Hulk. Betty is the only thing that made him revert back. That's it. Hulk took on a M1A1's direct shot to the chest and STILL came after the ####ed thing and riped the top off. He even deflected a shot from one. Those things shoot at HIGH velocities. I think supes would be taken down if he was shot with one of those because he never showed that much prowess in the movies.
I can see Hulk taking this whole thing. Even Godzilla. Just because his movie version is so powerfull. I can't wait to see him in the next movie
Keep in mind everyone who says the Hulk has never been KOed in his film, he also have never fought anything in Supermans power level before either, not even his father. Superman has. Missiles from the military are great, but Ive got to say that Supermans punches are alot more damaging than that.
Originally posted by Agent_X
We really need to get DTM to rule on whether or not the end of Superman II counts, if it does the magic users who were promoted as the anti-Supes are useless because he traverses the arena before they even think to blink.
The end of Superman 2, when he kisses Lois? Is that really a big threat to Dumbledore and Gandalf? :)
Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
shrug, nuklor or whatever his name was, worked the S'man because his strength was radiation derived.
The hulk does just 'spam' the area with it. His father is trying to take it, and the hulk's reply is to just say fine, here, take it all, and give it all off (which he can't do as it's limitless) in an area 'spaming' attack/effect.
Actually, Nuclear Man wasnt as much of a radiation being, but a Solar being (the source of Supermans own powers) as well as being a clone of Superman (Lex using Supermans DNA to help make him)
Originally posted by jedah_s
well when he reversed time for one lol.
i'm sure there are others.
haven't seen the movies in ages.
if the magic vulnerability is allowed by dtm because "it's part of his mythos"
then "faster than a speeding bullet" should be allowed.
Superman displayed super speed from Day One when he caught the muggers bullet that was going to hit Lois. As for his flight, he flies at Super Speed all the time, or it would take him hours to get to Paris in Superman 2 instead of minutes.
Originally posted by darkphoenix226
A. I figured DTM would rule that Hulk wouldn't ever turn back into banner. I wanna know if this is true or not, cause it seemed like back in the HW comp. He ruled that Dracula didn't have to sleep. So wouldn't hulk not ever have to turn into banner? I dunno, I'm just curious.
B. Hulk, even if he can turn into banner. I don't think superman is able to go THAT fast normally because of the fact that when he did it, it was his emotions reacting, making him go ballistic, trying anything. So, he tried it and was able to do it. But the point is, unless Hulk kills Lois Lane, I doubt he'll be strong enough. Also:
*Superman flies towards hulk, then goes straight upwards*
*Superman is thrown down to the Earth by the hulk in the air*
WHAT?!? Yeah, he can jump freakin far, and I'm sure if he tried to he could jump high. Superman starts to go into the air, Hulk jumps up grabs him and slams him into the Earth. This hulk is mean, and there's no way supes is gonna match him. It's gonna be quick once Hulk gets mad enough. Bye bye Superman.
Vote for Hulk.
I ruled Dracula didnt need to sleep??? :confused:
As for the Hulk, if people believe Superman can lull him to reverting to banner, by all means, I am not going to officially outlaw that.
Some thoughts here:
When did the Hulk laugh off a nuclear bomb in the film, as some here claim, I seriously missed that.
Supermans punches are going to do a great deal more damage than any missile, nuclear missile, excluded.
Superman of course has super speed, though I seriously doubt his light speed trick is done routinely by him since it was only done once in all 4 films, and that was under an EXTREME situation.
Superman - 23 votes
Hulk - 22 votes
discombobulous
08/25/2004, 01:57
Superman. He's strong, he's fast, he's got heat vision, he's got that shield symbol thing that he threw in the 2nd movie, and he can fly.
I don't think Hulk can do that damage to put him down, and Brucie won't stay mad forever.
Juggernaut146
08/25/2004, 02:00
Im goin to go with the Hulk here. I just dont think that supes can dish out enough damage to put him down for ten seconds. But i do think that the hulk can put him down
Dalandow
08/25/2004, 03:44
Hulk would beat the Big Blue Boy Scouts @$$!!!!!
I've seen many posts saying he is going to freeze him, or burn him, or hes to fast for him. How often does Superman use his freeze breath or Hyper Sonic Speed, almost never. If it is so easy to just freeze someone or burn them or aviod there attacks with his speed, why doesn't he do it. The only powers that I see him use on a regular basis is Heat Vision, Flight, and Super Strength. Heat Vision would just upset the Hulk even more, and if he tries to get into a slug fest with the Hulk, he wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of beating him.
Alot of people think he can do anything, Supes can do this and this and this and this and this and this. Hell, most probally believe Supes could **** gold is the city needed it.
The fact is, he doesn't use hardly any of his powers, ever.
Ex: Doomsday vs Supes
Doomsday is a knockoff of the Hulk, its obvious. When Supes fought him why didn't he just freeze him or do all that other #### that you people claim? huh.....huh....... If Supes can't handle Doomsday, the knockoff, he can't handle the real deal.
Dalandow
08/25/2004, 03:47
I hope everyone that votes for Superman, sets in a very special place in Hell.
Originally posted by Dalandow
I hope everyone that votes for Superman, sets in a very special place in Hell.
I just got my reservation there, i hear the beaches are nice.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 04:02
Originally posted by Dalandow
Hulk would beat the Big Blue Boy Scouts @$$!!!!!
I've seen many posts saying he is going to freeze him, or burn him, or hes to fast for him. How often does Superman use his freeze breath or Hyper Sonic Speed, almost never. If it is so easy to just freeze someone or burn them or aviod there attacks with his speed, why doesn't he do it. The only powers that I see him use on a regular basis is Heat Vision, Flight, and Super Strength. Heat Vision would just upset the Hulk even more, and if he tries to get into a slug fest with the Hulk, he wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell of beating him.
Alot of people think he can do anything, Supes can do this and this and this and this and this and this. Hell, most probally believe Supes could **** gold is the city needed it.
The fact is, he doesn't use hardly any of his powers, ever.
Ex: Doomsday vs Supes
Doomsday is a knockoff of the Hulk, its obvious. When Supes fought him why didn't he just freeze him or do all that other #### that you people claim? huh.....huh....... If Supes can't handle Doomsday, the knockoff, he can't handle the real deal.
Have you even read the rules of the tournament?
This is a MOVIE tournament, only the stuff that happens in the movies is allowed, not the comics. So no Doomsday fights, in which he DID use everything at his disposal anyway.
I think it was the beginning of Superman III he froze an entire lake, lifted it, and carried it while flying.
He used his cold breath against the villians from the phantom zone, and they used it on him. The Kryptonians were strong enough not to be frozen by it, but they were certainly affected by it. He and the Kryptonians even used powers that they don't have in the comic books, such as TK, hypnosis, illusions, and the "S" shield used as an incapacitation device.
Since it seems you don't understand what you're voting on, DTM probably won't count your vote anyway. But I'm sure everyone will be happy to listen once you follow the rules of the tournament.
Wow this is a hard one.
Superman seems to have all the advantages with so many more powers at his disposal.
Hulk however seems to be his equal or even better at the few things they share. (invulnerabilty and super strength).
In the end I think it's a matter of endurance as these 2 giants keep hitting each other and as in my opinion Hulk definately outstrips Superman here I'm going to vote for the green giant.
winner : Hulk
Dalandow
08/25/2004, 04:39
Originally posted by green_knight
Have you even read the rules of the tournament?
This is a MOVIE tournament, only the stuff that happens in the movies is allowed, not the comics. So no Doomsday fights, in which he DID use everything at his disposal anyway.
I think it was the beginning of Superman III he froze an entire lake, lifted it, and carried it while flying.
He used his cold breath against the villians from the phantom zone, and they used it on him. The Kryptonians were strong enough not to be frozen by it, but they were certainly affected by it. He and the Kryptonians even used powers that they don't have in the comic books, such as TK, hypnosis, illusions, and the "S" shield used as an incapacitation device.
Since it seems you don't understand what you're voting on, DTM probably won't count your vote anyway. But I'm sure everyone will be happy to listen once you follow the rules of the tournament.
OK Dad, thanks for putting me in my place.
LaterMan
08/25/2004, 05:13
I'm voting Superman. Hulk may be strong. But Supes is strong and fast. Big Blue just has more of what it takes then Mean Green.
sapphirex7
08/25/2004, 07:34
I am also voting Superman. He has way too many advantages to lose this one. Speed, flight, intellect, ranged attacks, etc. You name it. On the other hand we have..."Hulk Smash!". Give me a break. Sorry, big fella, not this time.
Range (both heat-vision, and cold breath which is actually pretty strong in this incarnation. Oh, and TK and some other stuff), intelligence, and the ability to pull powers out of nowhere. I vote Superman.
Zod would do better, but Superman also has the advantage of hero factor. He can get beat up pretty badly, retreat (note, with the speed difference, retreat is easy for Supes), then come up with a plan using his powers and execute it pretty flawlessly.
gladiator1518
08/25/2004, 08:43
Originally posted by Nobodyspecial
Superman wins You have to give a reason why you think he will win or your vote doesn't count.
JokersWild
08/25/2004, 09:02
Joker has decided that the Man o' Steel will win...by factors of superspeed, heat vision, freeze vision, super strength, flight...need Joker say more?
Ignatz_Mouse
08/25/2004, 09:16
Originally posted by DTM
Maybe youre thinking about Zod TK lifting the country bumpkin instead?
Maybe. It's been a very long time since I've seen it. I though Supes did it to the big guy.
Anyway, it's an option.
donnie72191
08/25/2004, 10:20
hulk wins hell smash superman in half!
brendanbrown
08/25/2004, 10:41
I Vote Hulk if I haven't yet. This version of the Hulk doesn't seem to be as brainless as most people think. He said "Puny human." to Bruce and it sounded very coherent. He also said "Take it all!" to his father, that also didn't sound to stupid when he said it. He did some other clever things in his movie (like bending the tank's barrel back into the cockpit, and deflecting missiles and throwing them back at helecopters. If we are giving Supes his Movie powers, We should give Hulk his movie intelligence.
Maximcards
08/25/2004, 10:50
Hulk smash
Remember, Superman could also just fly to the top of the arena and just wait until the Hulk calms down/gets bored. He's seen the movies, he knows what the Hulk is capable of and what he does. The Hulk may be able to leap far, but I doubt he can leap 25 miles straight up, especially fast enough so that Superman wouldn't be able to see him coming and fly out of the way.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 12:05
Originally posted by Dalandow
OK Dad, thanks for putting me in my place.
And don't forget to eat your veggies. And look both ways before crossing the street. And don't eat uncooked pork, or any of that "ham steak" business. And....
Superman - 26 votes
Hulk - 25 votes
Remember all, if you dont give a reason as to why youre voting for who you are, it wont be counted. Had a few of them here earlier.
hope everyone that votes for Superman, sets in a very special place in Hell.
And the award for "Person Most Tolorant of Others Opinions"...
...Oh my god! I can't believe this. Its...oh I can't read this. It's...NOT Dalandow.
SumYungGai
08/25/2004, 13:50
I vote Superman. He has too many advantages: he's strong enough to move the Earth; is the definition of invulnerable; has a plethora of ranged attacks; has superspeed; and has TK.
About the Earth moving thing, my take on it was he didnt do that.
He spun around the earth to go back in time, and this was shown as such by the Earth rotating backwards for a bit. I think this was done just to show what he was doing, and not saying "If you turn the Earth backwards, time will reverse" I dont think he actually reversed the rotation of the Earth, this was just done to show him moving so fast he could go back in time.....something he did once and ONLY once, ever, in all 4 films.
Fat Ninja
08/25/2004, 14:03
My initial instinct was Hulk, but on reflection I'm voting for SUPERMAN.
Am I right in thinking the combatants still get their opponents movies 'uploaded' into their brain?
If that's the case then Superman will KNOW that the longer you fight Hulk, the angrier he gets and more powerful he becomes, to the point even where he would become stronger than Supes himself.
He'll know he has to take Hulk out quickly to avoid him growing more powerful. Knowing this he won't hold back as much as he normally might. I think Superman at full strength, at superspeed can KO a mildly-irate power-level hulk.
Take that, factor in the more general advantages from flight, heat vision ranged attacks, superspeed, superior (at least until Hulk gets REALLY REALLY mad) strength, and, importantly, his super breath (a huge factor given Hulk's shown to be at least somewhat vulnerable to oxygen depletion etc) and I think Superman takes much more easily than you'd first think.
Maniac_nmt
08/25/2004, 15:09
Originally posted by DTM
Superman - 26 votes
Hulk - 25 votes
Remember all, if you dont give a reason as to why youre voting for who you are, it wont be counted. Had a few of them here earlier.
you did catch my post about changing my vote to superman since superman 4 was out correct?
Maniac_nmt
08/25/2004, 15:13
shrug, really I think the superspeed stuff is pointless, he never fought anyone that way in the films.
Superman can win it do to the fact he doesn't have anger clouding his thoughts. Being a calmer, more rational person he can plot out what's going on, and deal with the hulk in a non threating manner. That's really one of the only ways to deal with the Hulk. If Clark comes out punching (which is against his mo) Hulk will in all likely hood take it and come up about the size of a small house (in the film he gets bigger as he gets angrier).
If he handles it in typical Clark fashion, and does things other then punching he can do it more often then not on a first encounter since he doesn't have the radiation weakness of 4.
I vote for Superman
Esper is right, Superman can easily just stay 25 miles from Hulk at all times. Hulk can't keep his rage on with no real stimulus at all, and Superman's super hearing and x-ray vision will allow him to stay out of Hulk's range of perception at all times, after a while Hulk will calm down, get bored, and revert.
thedon99
08/25/2004, 15:58
Superman can do that, but will he? He seems to prefer h2h, and that favors Hulk, so Hulk wins. Also, think of how high and how far Hulk can leap, it is miles, correct? in the movie it certainly was. Hulk could jump straight up and grab Superman. I think such a move would suprise Supes, so it could work. Let's be honest, Superman could avoid the Hulk all day long, but I don't think he would.
Originally posted by Rando
I vote for Superman
Esper is right, Superman can easily just stay 25 miles from Hulk at all times. Hulk can't keep his rage on with no real stimulus at all, and Superman's super hearing and x-ray vision will allow him to stay out of Hulk's range of perception at all times, after a while Hulk will calm down, get bored, and revert.
So you and some others believe that the only way for Superman to win is by hiding and running away from the Hulk in the hopes that he will eventually get bored and calm down enough to revert back to Banner so that he can then come in and KO him? Doesn't sound like much of a win to me if he wins by default. Maybe Supes should change that S to a C and call himself Chickenman instead.:ermm:
Ignatz_Mouse
08/25/2004, 16:00
He would if he were losing.
And Hulk can change course in mid-air-- he'll never get Superman unless Supes is distracted.
Superman is smarter and faster and flys.
Vote: Superman
well i'm putting in my official vote for superman
he is capable of superspeed.
dtm said the arena in 25 miles high.
supes flies in, grabs big green by the underoos, drags him up to the stratosphere, and lets him go.
hulk's passed out from lack of oxygen before.
and it'd take him at least 4 minuites to hit the ground from 25 miles up. that should count as a 10 second incap.
gladiator1518
08/25/2004, 17:02
Originally posted by thedon99
Hulk could jump straight up and grab Superman.LOL. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 17:10
Originally posted by DTM
About the Earth moving thing, my take on it was he didnt do that.
He spun around the earth to go back in time, and this was shown as such by the Earth rotating backwards for a bit. I think this was done just to show what he was doing, and not saying "If you turn the Earth backwards, time will reverse" I dont think he actually reversed the rotation of the Earth, this was just done to show him moving so fast he could go back in time.....something he did once and ONLY once, ever, in all 4 films.
Regardless...It was SHOWN and HE DID IT!!!
Many others here are granted powers on what someone lower in level then they are did, yet Superman DOES SOMETHING and everyone keeps saying he ONLY did this once....MANY PEOPLE do MANY THINGS Once that doesn't mean they can't do it again!!! He could obvisiouly do it at will or Jor-el would not have made a point of the whole never interfere speech!!! The Earth moved backwards...Hence he changed the rotation.....
Mr. Savage
Superman isn't some thug that likes to beat people down. He is a hero of the highest order, as well as a living example of restraint and responsibility. Why would he choose to engage in mindless fisticuffs to win a battle he could win more easily and asuredly, by not fighting at all? Superman doesn't fight people because he likes fighting, he does it to protect the innocent, it isn't like he would get a big thrill out of slugging it out with some other bruiser, quite the opposite. I think just allowing Hulk to calm down is the most "in character" action for him to take that way noone gets hurt at all (except Banner, and then only a little, as it would take a lot more punishment to put him down as Hulk), and Superman wins. Hulk may be able to leap to where Superman is, but he would have to know where Superman is first. Superman can easily hide his position given the terrain, as well as the fact that his enhanced senses will allow him to keep track of the Hulk pretty much anywhere in the arena.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 17:19
Originally posted by jedah_s
well i'm putting in my official vote for superman
he is capable of superspeed.
dtm said the arena in 25 miles high.
supes flies in, grabs big green by the underoos, drags him up to the stratosphere, and lets him go.
hulk's passed out from lack of oxygen before.
and it'd take him at least 4 minuites to hit the ground from 25 miles up. that should count as a 10 second incap.
You know, that's a great idea. He could yank hulk 25 miles up, and then fly around in circles too fast for Hulk to do anything but run out of air. When Hulk passes out, Supes would carefully bring him back down, and when he reverts to Banner, Supes would offer to help him control his anger, and try to help him.
Clark really is a compassionate person, and would probably take the method that would do the least long term damage to someone that by virtue of having the movie downloaded, he can see as an individual that needs help. So he would do something that meets the requirements of the contest, make him pass out, and then move on.
But one more thing, DTM, I was under the impression that when characters fought in these contests, it was with the understanding that whatever they hold most dear is at stake, so they don't hold back. If that's the case, I wouldn't rule out his super speed time travel thing, since in that case what he held most dear WAS at stake.
And as for the magic weakness, I don't believe that should be allowed because it is not shown in any of his movies. Mythos or not, or else we should include Talos or whatever his name is, his immunity to magic because of his mythos, even though its not shown in the movie. Thoughts?
Ignatz_Mouse
08/25/2004, 17:23
Rando, I agree completely.
And, pretty much my argument for Captain Marvel beating Hulk back in the original TOC.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/25/2004, 17:29
Originally posted by green_knight
And as for the magic weakness, I don't believe that should be allowed because it is not shown in any of his movies. Mythos or not, or else we should include Talos or whatever his name is, his immunity to magic because of his mythos, even though its not shown in the movie. Thoughts?
Apparently, the magic weakness shows up in Supergirl. I haven't seen it in so long I don;t recall the details, and I am not about to watch it again!
I'm tryin gto get details as to the flavor of the weakness, as there have been different, conflicting interpretations over the years. Anybody remember the movie well enough to describe the way in which Supergirl was vulnerable to magic? Was it:
1) Vunerable to spells
2) Magic items hurt her like normal items would hurt normal people (ie, magic fire burns, magic knives vcut)
3) Magic items affect her, but she's still tough
#2 is the one the people arguning against Superman most often choose, although it's the least often version that shows up in comics (for instance, Thor's hammer does not cave in Superman's head in JLA/Avengers).
Originally posted by VandalSavage
Regardless...It was SHOWN and HE DID IT!!!
Many others here are granted powers on what someone lower in level then they are did, yet Superman DOES SOMETHING and everyone keeps saying he ONLY did this once....MANY PEOPLE do MANY THINGS Once that doesn't mean they can't do it again!!! He could obvisiouly do it at will or Jor-el would not have made a point of the whole never interfere speech!!! The Earth moved backwards...Hence he changed the rotation.....
Mr. Savage
I'm sorry, but even as a child watching this film for the first
time I knew that changing the Earth's rotation like that
would devastate the Earth as we know it rather than turning
back time.
What DTM said in post #194 is the only sane interpretation.
Ignatz_Mouse
08/25/2004, 17:34
I agree, clearly that's time going backwards, not the Earth spinning backwards. But it does suggest that Superman can go insanely fast, fast enough to lay on some serious momentum-based hurt.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 17:42
Originally posted by NotYou
I'm sorry, but even as a child watching this film for the first
time I knew that changing the Earth's rotation like that
would devastate the Earth as we know it rather than turning
back time.
What DTM said in post #194 is the only sane interpretation.
And what would casting a fireball by means of waving your hands around do to reality as we know it?
Probably nothing except burn whatever the fireball hit as well as show anyone watching that there are still a lot of unknowns in the universe that can somehow produce unexplained effects.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 17:48
Originally posted by Rando
Probably nothing except burn whatever the fireball hit as well as show anyone watching that there are still a lot of unknowns in the universe that can somehow produce unexplained effects.
Excellent point. Just like Superman flying around the earth.:grin:
Originally posted by green_knight
Excellent point. Just like Superman flying around the earth.:grin:
And if the Earth was 25 miles in diameter that would be relevant here.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 17:56
Originally posted by NotYou
And if the Earth was 25 miles in diameter that would be relevant here.
For Hulk and Supes, right now it is.
I think Superman's been flying around your head at light
speed. I'm not going to waste any more of my time on you.
Just a hypothetical question. If Superman hit the Hulk fast enough and hard enough, would Hulk keep growing until he popped like an over-inflated balloon?
My vote is for the weaker but much smarter Superman who could use the Hulk's own strengths against him.
The Art of War baby!
how long did supes' first trip around the world take?
a matter of seconds.
know how fast you'd be going if you flew around the earth in one hour?
24.900 mph.
supes flew around the first time *in seconds*
i think he can cover 25 miles pretty quick.
green_knight
08/25/2004, 18:49
Originally posted by green_knight
For Hulk and Supes, right now it is.
Apparently my comment requires some explanation. Despite the fact that I do have Superman flying at time traveling speeds around in my head.
DTM said that in these tournaments, the character's fought as if everything is on the line. Otherwise heroes wouldn't fight heroes.
So when everything was on the line, Supes broke the time barrier. He had to alter all the events on earth in order to save Lois.
In the 25 mile arena, Supes and Hulk are both fighting as if everything is on the line. They still act in character, so I'm not suggesting Supes would combine his X-ray vision and heat vision and lobotomize Hulk.
But for these 2, everything is on the line here. They will do the best they can, in character. Since Supes can reach escape velocity, change his clothes into his hero outifit in under a second, spin fast enough to drill through concrete, he is supremely fast, and didn't need that much room to do most of those things.
For the duration of these battles, this IS their world. Everything is on the line. So I see no problem with pulling out desperation maneuvers, as long as they are done in character.
So no Superman giving Hulk a super speed kick to the sack after flying across the arena at Super speed. Especially since we know that would hurt, courtesy of a gamma dog in the Hulk movie.
JesseJames
08/25/2004, 19:02
Actually Hulk just got VERY ANGRY when the Hulk Dog bit his testicles.
:p
In all seriousness, I cant see freeze breath, heat vision, or super speed bringing it home for Supes.
What its going to come down to is hand to hand combat, and Superman cannot top the Hulk when it comes to that. Hulk shrugged off Nuclear Missle Assaults. The Hulk is just gonna get more pissed, and more pissed, until he is really really really really pissed. And is the size of a 7 story building with the ability to jump 70 miles, and lift small mountains.
Hulk isnt going to stand there and let Supes pull him up into the stratusphere either. Theres gonna be resistance.
And we never saw Supes fight at Superspeed.
Anyway, the only way for Supes to win is score the first hit knockout...and I dont think he can.
Just my opinion.
Superman pulling the
green_knight
08/25/2004, 19:15
Originally posted by JesseJames
Actually Hulk just got VERY ANGRY when the Hulk Dog bit his testicles.
:p
In all seriousness, I cant see freeze breath, heat vision, or super speed bringing it home for Supes.
What its going to come down to is hand to hand combat, and Superman cannot top the Hulk when it comes to that. Hulk shrugged off Nuclear Missle Assaults. The Hulk is just gonna get more pissed, and more pissed, until he is really really really really pissed. And is the size of a 7 story building with the ability to jump 70 miles, and lift small mountains.
Hulk isnt going to stand there and let Supes pull him up into the stratusphere either. Theres gonna be resistance.
And we never saw Supes fight at Superspeed.
Anyway, the only way for Supes to win is score the first hit knockout...and I dont think he can.
Just my opinion.
Superman pulling the
Hmm, that gives me an idea. What if Superman just does the flyby punch thing enough times that Hulk gets too big to fit in the arena? They would both be squished, but Superman doesn't need to breath, so Hulk would pass out first.
And the look on Hulk's face when the dog bit his groin was priceless.
super speed is all he needs.
if he can cover 25 miles in a fraction of a second (remember movies superman's first trip *around the world* took a few seconds)... hulk has no time to react to being dragged into the stratosphere.
hulk has passed out from oxygen deprivation before.
he will this time too.
and the 4 minute+ free fall should count as a 10 second incap. since hulk can't do squat while falling towards the arena.
schicantek
08/25/2004, 19:29
Well, for all the Supes will hide and win folks:
A) Isn't it a rule that all combatants MUST try and fight.
B) I think that DTM ruled that Hulk wouldn't revert. Besides, Hulk will get awfully mad with cat and mouse games.
I think Hulk is too much of a monster for Duperman to take down. Hulk is so strong and durable, he takes this.
gladiator1518
08/25/2004, 19:40
Originally posted by schicantek
Besides, Hulk will get awfully mad with cat and mouse games. I've a question to ask of all the Hulk supporters. Is there anything that won't get Hulk mad? It seems everytime when someone mentions a way for Superman to win they say "that'll only make Hulk madder".
it's because when he gets madder he grows.
and his pants get tighter.
PirateRoberts
08/25/2004, 20:02
I gotta go with Superman on this one. Way too fast for the Hulk and one good hit will put Hulk out before he gets a chance to shine.
Originally posted by VandalSavage
Regardless...It was SHOWN and HE DID IT!!!
Many others here are granted powers on what someone lower in level then they are did, yet Superman DOES SOMETHING and everyone keeps saying he ONLY did this once....MANY PEOPLE do MANY THINGS Once that doesn't mean they can't do it again!!! He could obvisiouly do it at will or Jor-el would not have made a point of the whole never interfere speech!!! The Earth moved backwards...Hence he changed the rotation.....
Mr. Savage
The Earth didn't actually move backwards they showed that for dramatic effect to represent him going back in time. They do that all the time in Star Trek where they sling shot around the sun at warp speed and go back in time, same concept. Whether the Earth spins one way or the other it doesn't affect time its to show him going backwards in time.
brendanbrown
08/25/2004, 20:46
Scientific question-
If you could go around the world (in real life) and get through each time zone in less than an hour, would you arrive at your original location earlier than you started? so would your watch just be off or would you have really 'gone back in time'??:ermm:
1.There is no dragging Hulk into the stratosphere, they can't get out of the arena.
2.It has never been a rule that Hulk can't revert any of the times that he has been in these things, it isn't now either.
3.There is no "it's all on the line clause," the combatants fight because they have to, there are no consequences for loseing other than you don't win the tourney and it is assumed that all characters want to win. The "all on the line stuff" is a popular misconception often used by people that want non-lethal competitors to break out of chararcter and use their powers in weird crazy ways that they don't do.
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 20:51
Originally posted by LDK
The Earth didn't actually move backwards they showed that for dramatic effect to represent him going back in time. They do that all the time in Star Trek where they sling shot around the sun at warp speed and go back in time, same concept. Whether the Earth spins one way or the other it doesn't affect time its to show him going backwards in time.
Well,
Now we know your OPINION on the Earth moving backwards or not....It was shown that it did...It was then shown that he then started it forward again...Dramatic effect or not..It happened...
Mr. Savage
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 20:57
Originally posted by Rando
1.There is no dragging Hulk into the stratosphere, they can't get out of the arena.
Well, Hulk passed out way before 37,725 Feet into the air, so He could drag Hulk in to the upper atmosphere very easily.
Mr. Savage
Originally posted by Rando
1.There is no dragging Hulk into the stratosphere, they can't get out of the arena.
actually i made it a point to ask dtm how high the arena went.
he said 25 miles up.
thats the beginning of the stratosphere.
so, yes superman can drag hulk up there.
that also depends on where this battlefield exists at in reference to sea level. If it is at an elevation similar to at the bottom of the grand canyon, or some such thing then that might not be the case (but I'm not certain of the actual numbers).
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 21:01
Originally posted by JesseJames
Hulk isnt going to stand there and let Supes pull him up into the stratusphere either. Theres gonna be resistance.
Unless Hulk is anchored to something stronger than Superman than he cannot prevent being dragged in the air.
Mr. Savage
Yes earths atmosphere is up that high but your forgeting this is dtm's arena and the air is all locked in it could be the same amount of air on the ground as in the air.
Originally posted by Rando
that also depends on where this battlefield exists at in reference to sea level. If it is at an elevation similar to at the bottom of the grand canyon, or some such thing then that might not be the case (but I'm not certain of the actual numbers).
the grand canyon is only 5000 feet deep
thats a little less than a mile.
even if were going to argue details about where the 25 miles start.. thats still leaves 24 miles of overhead.
Originally posted by odieses
Yes earths atmosphere is up that high but your forgeting this is dtm's arena and the air is all locked in it could be the same amount of air on the ground as in the air.
hey if this had happened in the space station my vote would have been different.
to the best of my knowlege arenas act like normal terrain.
no special penalties for people who can actually fly to the top.
hulk got hosed on the terrain... and supes has a valid stategy for incap'ing the hulk without hurting him too badly.
completely in character for supes if you ask me.
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 21:09
Originally posted by Rando
that also depends on where this battlefield exists at in reference to sea level. If it is at an elevation similar to at the bottom of the grand canyon, or some such thing then that might not be the case (but I'm not certain of the actual numbers).
Not sure what the point is on this statement? Please expand on what you mean.
Mr. Savage
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 21:11
Originally posted by jedah_s
the grand canyon is only 5000 feet deep
thats a little less than a mile.
even if were going to argue details about where the 25 miles start.. thats still leaves 24 miles of overhead.
Sorry but a mile is only 1509 feet....I agree with what your saying, but your figures are wrong...Also the Grand Canyon is ABOVE SEA LEVEL...NOT BELOW...
Mr. Savage
Well if it takes 25 miles to reach the beginning of the startosphere then is one placed the arena at 2 miles below sea level then you couldn't get to the stratosphere. The arena could be anywhere in reference to sea level, at it, 100 miles above it, 100 miles below it, we don't really know. Superman also has to keep Hulk there for him to pass out, which is something of a task.
brendanbrown
08/25/2004, 21:19
I dont think that pulling Hulk up until the air is so thin that he passes out is a viable way for Supes to win. Otherwise he would be undefeatable in any terrain but the space station. He goes to his opponent before they can blink, drags them up into the atmosphere until they pass out. This is a perfect non-lethal solution. So I think the air is as thick at the top of the arena as it is at ground level.
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 21:19
Originally posted by Rando
Well if it takes 25 miles to reach the beginning of the startosphere then is one placed the arena at 2 miles below sea level then you couldn't get to the stratosphere. The arena could be anywhere in reference to sea level, at it, 100 miles above it, 100 miles below it, we don't really know. Superman also has to keep Hulk there for him to pass out, which is something of a task.
Now your reaching with the 100 miles above or below....
Mr. Savage
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 21:21
Originally posted by brendanbrown
I dont think that pulling Hulk up until the air is so thin that he passes out is a viable way for Supes to win. Otherwise he would be undefeatable in any terrain but the space station. He goes to his opponent before they can blink, drags them up into the atmosphere until they pass out. This is a perfect non-lethal solution. So I think the air is as thick at the top of the arena as it is at ground level.
Ok, So your saying since he can win every time with this option, it should not be allowed....OK, I THINK THAT'S WHY HE'S A SUPER-HEAVY WEIGHT. So with that logic in mind let's NOT allow Hulk's strength because that's what allows him to win all the time.
Mr. Savage
Originally posted by VandalSavage
Sorry but a mile is only 1509 feet....I agree with what your saying, but your figures are wrong...Also the Grand Canyon is ABOVE SEA LEVEL...NOT BELOW...
Mr. Savage
sorry
1 mile is 5,280 feet
http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm
check it.
hulk passed out while riding on the back of that fighter jet
he doesn't need to be up there long.
from 25 miles up it'll be a 4+ minute freefall before hulk hits the ground.
the arena is a blasted out city
not anything 100 feet below sea level.
25 miles from sea level is the bottom of the stratosphere.
like i said before, the terrain has always been treated as normal terrain.
no need to start added fantastic properties to the arena just to hinder supes.
that would be unfair.
VandalSavage
08/25/2004, 21:26
Originally posted by jedah_s
sorry
1 mile is 5,280 feet
http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm
check it.
My mistake...I was thinking meters...which is 1609...Still wrong but closer...Well then that changes my entire first calculaction....Superman can fly Hulk 132,000 feet into the air....Which is over 3 times as high as an International Jet will fly at top altitudes.....
Mr. Savage
JesseJames
08/25/2004, 21:27
Originally posted by gladiator1518
I've a question to ask of all the Hulk supporters. Is there anything that won't get Hulk mad? It seems everytime when someone mentions a way for Superman to win they say "that'll only make Hulk madder".
No.:p
He has a short temper. Anytime he battled in the mvie, he got madder and stronger. Now with Superman buzzing about like a fly, Im sure hes going to get extra angry.
JesseJames
08/25/2004, 21:36
Theres 2 problems with Supes speeding across the arena at 553646 miles a hour, grabbing Hulk by the feet, and dragging him up a gazillion miles.
1. Superman never fought at Superspeed in his movies. And even if he could, I dont think thats his style. Im sure he will wish to inspect the Hulk...talk to the Hulk, Ask the Hulk to surrender...before he actually tries to formulate any kind of tactic. And while hes making nice, Hulk's gonna try and attack him, and Hulk moved pretty ####ed fast. Even at bullet speed, Supes is going to be thinking under pressure, as Hulk leaps towards him 100 miles per hour.
I dont think the "pull up in the air" tactic will be the first to come to mind for Supes. Im sure he'll test his strength, or something.
2. Hulk is going to resist getting pulled up into the great beyond. Supes may be moving fast, but his hand, and thus body...will be stationary as he hold the Hulk, dragging him upward.
This will give Hulk a free shot, perhaps lots of free shots. Not to mention his natural twisting of his body, ect. Supes probably wont be able to keep a grip.
Again, just my opinion.
brendanbrown
08/25/2004, 21:41
The special features on the Hulk DVD said he can travel up to 300 miles per hour. That is pretty darn fast, but no where near the speed Supes travels at. Hulk and Superman fight at about the same speeds, so I don't think Superman's speed is going to factor into this battle AT ALL.
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