New Game Mechanics: Battlefield Conditions and Bystander Tokens

[BrotherMagneto]

<p align="center"><B>Marvel HeroClix: <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> New Game Mechanics: Battlefield Conditions and Bystander Tokens</b> by Jason Mical</p><p>The next stop on our tour of <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> are two mechanics that may already be familiar: <b>Battlefield Conditions</b>, a mechanic that <b>Mage Knight</b> and <B>Crimson Skies</b> players may recognize; and Bystander Tokens, a mechanic that has appeared in <b>HeroClix</b> before, although not in a collectable release like <i>Mutant Mayhem</i>.<p><b>About Cards</b><br>Instead of using styrene (the stiff plastic used for <B>Mage Knight</b> domains), cards in <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> use the same glossy cardboard stock as the bystander tokens from the map packs and the cards issued for <b>Crimson Skies</b>. Each booster will have one card - either a Feat, Battlefield Condition, or a Bystander Token. No card is more "rare" than any other, so your chances of pulling any one card from a booster are exactly equal to your chances of pulling any other card.<p><B>Battlefield Conditions</b><br>From the rules:<p>Battlefield conditions alter terrain, weather, or other properties on the battlefield. Using battlefield conditions is optional, though if players agree to use them, then all players must use them. Battlefield conditions are printed on cards.<p>If using battlefield conditions, each player secretly chooses one battlefield condition card to play. After the map is chosen and players choose their starting areas, but before players place their characters, each player reveals the battlefield condition card he or she chose and puts it into play next to the battlefield. Some battlefield conditions cancel other battlefield conditions. If a battlefield condition is canceled, remove its card from the game. If two battlefield conditions cancel each other, both cards are removed from the game. Otherwise, follow the rules text on each battlefield condition card in play.<p>Not terribly complicated. <B>Mage Knight</b> players will recognize the "domain" mechanic, imported to <B>HeroClix</b>. Most of the Battlefield Conditions have a fairly minor effect on gameplay; see, for example, <B>Darkness</b>:</p><p align="center"><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBC_01.jpg"></p><p>Darkness is pretty typical of what a Battlefield Condition does. There are a couple of effects Battlefield Conditions can have on gameplay. First, you can use them to make casual games more interesting, because they are essentially minor "scenarios" (heck, you could even shuffle them in a deck and draw one randomly!) Second, you can spice up regular tournaments by using them competitively. And third, you can use them strategically. A card like Darkness allows you to severely limit forces that rely on ranges and ranged combat, so if your force is particularly vulnerable to a ranged combat team, you can clip its wings before the fight even starts.<p>But let's say you've created a ranged combat force, and you know that somewhere out there, someone's got a Darkness card with your name on it - how do you cope? There's an old adage in chess: never make a move hoping that your opponent won't see what you're trying to do. Instead, move with a plan. For your ranged combat team, we've given you another fine option - <b>Ordinary Day</b>.<p align="center"><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBC_004.jpg"></p><p>Ordinary Day - or "stick in the mud," as we referred to it in playtesting - will allow you to cancel a Battlefield Condition that would otherwise completely deactivate your force. Sure, it's less fun, but it's a good insurance policy if your team is two-dimensional enough to be shut down by a Condition card.<p><B>Bystander Tokens</b><br>First introduced in the Map Packs, Bystander Tokens are cardboard characters that players want to see, but wouldn't make a lot of sense to actually sculpt and put in a set. They are not considered "unique" for gameplay purposes, so you can put as many of a single Bystander as you'd like on a single force. Bystanders only have one "click" of life (if a Bystander takes at least 1 click of damage, it's KOed). They generally have point costs in the single digits, meaning you can use them to round out a force if you're looking for a couple extra points to invest in something cheap to block Line of Sight (or, for the less ruthless players, if you want to play a scenario or add your favorite non-superhero to the mix).<p>Franklin Richards is a typical <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> bystander:<p align="center"><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBT_04.jpg"></p><p>A couple of things to note: Franklin has no powers, abilities, or team abilities. All of the Bystanders in <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> lack powers and team abilities, so there won't be any two-point Perplexers out there. At only two points, Franklin isn't going to KO Galactus any time soon, but he does make a dandy way to block Line of Sight, and a Defense of 12 isn't terrible, considering his cost. And, if you were feeling particularly nasty, you could always Perplex his damage value up and watch in surprise as Franklin puts the hurt on someone much larger than he.<p>There are a total of six Bystander tokens included in <i>Mutant Mayhem</i>, and one "Limited Edition" Bystander that will only be available at the <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> Marquee tournament. This token is a participation prize, so everyone who attends a <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> Marquee tournament should receive one (while supplies last!) The token is a figure that may never appear again, but plays such a large role in the Marvel universe that we couldn't completely ignore her:<p align="center"><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBT_LE.jpg"></p><p>Hope to see you all at the Marquee! Tune in text week for the final New Game Mechanic article, as we dissect Feats!

[Funky Jett]

Friggin AWESOME!!!

[hair10]

Great start to Wednesday previews BroMags!!

Thanks!

[Angelofhate]

Very cool.

How will battlefield conditions be handled in sealed play (and the Marquee?) ... Cause it would #### to be the guy who pulls 3 bystanders against the guy who pulls 3 battlefield conditions.

[vaders sabre]

AWESOME!!! and I have not even read it yet

[OpalScion]

i like darkness a lot.

a little concerned that when i buy a case, i might miss out on some cards though, with only one per pack. just have to cross my fingers i guess

[Rottgutt]

Originally posted by Angelofhate
Very cool.

How will battlefield conditions be handled in sealed play (and the Marquee?) ... Cause it would #### to be the guy who pulls 3 bystanders against the guy who pulls 3 battlefield conditions.

I'd guess it'll be like Mage Knight Domains and you can only play one each game.

And I do like the idea of a bystander card for everyone who plays the Marquee.

[hair10]

Wow... everyone who attends a marquee will get Aunt May. Nice touch!

I was looking forward to the new mechanics of this set from the beginning. But I'm really liking how WK is handling these things. Nothing looks unbalanced, no rarity levels (darn MK relics!), and participation prizes just for playing. Color me impressed! :grin:

[crookedtooth]

This is going to be great!!! Now I'm really not gonna have a life! :p

[Denim&Leather]

The Battlefield Conditions cards look to be my favorite part of the new play mechanics. One card can shaft outwit or range attackers hard, and if a guy wants to waste his card on ordinary day to stop it he's giving up any kind of advantage another card could give him.

[grey_zealot]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYY!!

More game mechanics!!

I'm sooo excited! :grin: :grin:

[VorpalDiplomat]

See! Franklin Richards isn't powerful...

[sarcastro]

Well, for those who thought Giant Man would shift the game more towards ranged combat, I guess darkness fixes that.

[OpalScion]

it looks like darkness doesn't affect TK

hmmmmmmmmm.....

[Pipedream]

I like that the bystandards will not have powers and team abilities (wild card abuse is already rampant). I was on the fence about playing in a marquee (was still going to get a case though), now I have too if for no other reason than to see my opponents face when I use Aunt May in the Who's got the Power Cosmic scenario (Golden Oldie will be a reality)

[crookedtooth]

wrong, it looks like the card says "POWERS and ABILITIES" that can affect a character upto 10 squares away. It looks like TK will also be affected.....

....But I could be wrong ;)

[Darth Sabre]

It'll be hard envisioning anyone carrying around any card other than Darkness (of course, since we aren't sure of the other cards, or how they'll be able to be used in game play, it's a baseless statement at this point, but still), because it really neuters ALOT of things. Limiting Perplex, OW, PC, and ranged attacks, REALLY changes the face of games. Really awesome though!

[SuperGENE]

I guess this should satisfy everyone who complains Outwit and Perplex are open. I think I'll probably be carrying the ordinary day card in my tourney kit just to play things safe.

The LE Aunt May for all marquee attendees is an awesome idea. Are they going to hand them out at the even ot mail it to everyone who is registered? If they hand it out, some judges will be stuck with loads of extras.

I think I see a lot being added to the FAQ in the near future. But this time it's a good thing. Nice work!

[OpalScion]

Originally posted by crookedtooth
wrong, it looks like the card says "POWERS and ABILITIES" that can affect a character upto 10 squares away. It looks like TK will also be affected.....

....But I could be wrong ;)


well, for throwing an object at someone, ok

but moving someone...

they start out adjacent, so they aren't any spaces away....

see where i'm going?

[drgnoftyr]

very interesting i can't wait for next week's preview.......;) ;) :grin: :grin:

[AlgertMan]

sweet

[de4dp00l]

How will the Battlefield conditions be handled at tournaments (including the Marquee) in terms of each round. Do you pick one card, and then have to stick with it through the tournament, or can you switch for each match?

[Nighthawk]

Gee, introducing cards into a miniatures game, I'm shocked it took them this long to do it. Instead of making more accurate, consistent characters they carp things up with frills. Hope they don't 'tap' or Wizards of the Coast will sue their @sses off.

Don't get me wrong, I think some of the stuff sounds cool, but there are better things that could be done to improve Clixdom.

[Gentlegamer]

Originally posted by BrotherMagneto
All of the Bystanders in <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> lack powers and team abilities, so there won't be any two-point Perplexers out there.
BroMags knew I'd be coming for him and JonL if there were Perplex Pogs!

:grin:

[Gentlegamer]

Remember, when you play the Darkness card, you have to say it like Rick James . . .

"Darkness! Darkness is spreading!"

[freakazoid_x]

Hmmm, it's funny that Franklin is a token. Because he'll be an orphan after the retirement of Clobberin Time. An amusing picture is painted in my head of Franklin in a Tourney crying for a mommy that won't come. Well, unless it's the LE invisible Woman I guess.

[4est]

Very very cool. And knowing that the bystanders will not have Team Abilities or Powers this time around is pretty cool.

And wow having to carry around a "deck" of battlefiled conditions could be annoying.

But this info just solidifys that I need to preorder a case with my LGS.

[crookedtooth]

Right, but I'm assuming that darkness is really more like limiting your line of sight, see where I am going?

No really I totally understand what you're saying, I guess I'm looking at it from a different perspective. Yes your TK target is adjacent to you, but if the point of the card is to cut range why would this not affect TK. You need to "see" the target square.:p

You aren't one of the rules exploitation guys are you ? ;) :p

[adamical]

OpalScion:

When you are TKing someone, you are affecting them, for the duration of the TK. So once you've moved them 8 squares, you're still affecting them to move them further. With Darkness, once they get 6 squares away, you can no longer affect them. So you shouldn't be able to still move them.

At least that's how I see it.

[dal_johnson]

From a game play point of view I like the idea of the bystanders not having any powers. It keeps things in control. But part of me wanted to see it as it would suit the characters. I kept constantly picturing a Leech pog with Outwit.

[Manchine]

This is cool!

[SPLITSECOND]

These condition cards could really make many more forces and strategies viable in a tourney setting. Looks good.

[MeatLoafX]

Very cool info!!

I think everyone knew of a domain that would cancel all others, but it is still slightly disappointing to see it. I really hoped that these cards would totally shake things up, but the normal cracker player will just pack that card.

Still, the cards will make for a very interesting tournament scene if judges are bright enough to make good use of them in scenarios.

:)

[wonderboy]

I guess the Battle Condition cards don't affect your point total. Hmmm, interesting.

Also, when it says they are "optional, and when players agree to use them", does this mean if someone doesn't agree to use them, they can't be used? Kinda like the way 3-D objects were handled in the past?

[secretwarrior]

what's the point of making bystanders with nothing going for them?!?!?!?


and using franklin richards as an example to block line of fire is plain WRONG!!!! he's like ten years old!!!

[Cell]

1.The Pogs look boring... Not TA or Abilities? So its really more for scenarios and stuff... Like a rescue the Richards kid scenario... things like that...

2.Darkness is cool... less need to worry about those Running Shot characters with 10 range :)

3.Ordinary day? Not so cool... cause most people will use that just to be safe...

4.The fact that you dont have to use cards if you dont want to is also cool... I wont be using them much personally ...

[thugit]

I'd be a lot more enthused if they weren't putting a "trump" card like Clear Day or whatever.

Everyone will play that one. Why? Because they won't take the chance of having outwit, perplex, or TK get neutered.


How about fixing some of the problems? No stacked perplex, NAATK?

What's that saying about re-arranging chairs on the Titanic?

--ThugIt (Mr. Negative)

[psmccormick]

Whats the point of "Ordinary Day"? Why not just say "Nope, I am not playing with Condition Cards"?

[spyrus]

I really like the idea of battlefield conditions and feat cards, but in the end, they will just become another set of rules that half of us will exploit, while the others complain.

The key problem with Darkness in my mind, is that it will make turtling very easy, and increase the already vast power of hypersonic speed.

Beyond that, I am looking forward to playing with the cards.

[sfx5000]

Originally posted by dal_johnson
I kept constantly picturing a Leech pog with Outwit.

Same here. In fact I was really looking forward to one. Now I hope they don't make a Leech pog at all. At least not this time around.

[Nickel97]

So Sage is on the Darkness card. Does that mean we'll get a Tessa/Sage figure in MM...? I can hope.

[wonderboy]

Originally posted by psmccormick
Whats the point of "Ordinary Day"? Why not just say "Nope, I am not playing with Condition Cards"?

That was my question. Is this really the way it's supposed to be handled? Cause what is the fun in bringing these cards to a tournament if someone can just say, "I don't agree to use cards so you can't use them."

I think they should be assumed legal to use unless the judge decides to not allow them, just like the way 3-D objects are handled now.

[lancelot]

hot damn!

can't wait!

[LeaLu]

The way I see it, Darkness would make a Batman Enemies team much more potent. Suddenly the fact that all these slow-moving characters tend to have no more than a 6 range means that they're more cost-effective- you're only paying for the range you're using :)

[SumYungGai]

Franklin is totally broken. For two points we're getting a token that can do one click of damage. Compare him to the LE Aunt May. His stats are just out of whack with what we have seen so far. I don't think there is a real point formula.

[TheLion]

I think the designers at Wizkids need to look up the meaning of the word "bystander."

Use Franklin Richards to block LOF to one of your figures, now that's the way to play a superhero game... :rolleyes:

[hair10]

Originally posted by secretwarrior
what's the point of making bystanders with nothing going for them?!?!?!?
Two words... Mastermind fodder!


and using franklin richards as an example to block line of fire is plain WRONG!!!! he's like ten years old!!!
Sweet, isn't it. :devious:


As for all those who don't like "Ordinary Day", remember... Judges can always impose house rules. ;)

[kwsazul]

Does the suggested use of a senior citizen and a small child as human meat shields disturb anyone else?!? :p :eek: Hopefully this doesn't mean we will never see a Franklin Richards clix. Oh wait they already made Galactus ;)

I personally like that there is a card that can cancel battlefield conditions. I think there really needs to be a cancel card for battlefield conditions. Think about it, someone could tailor a very lethal team around low/no range. That means that you either build a team around low range yourself or pay for stats like 10 range, TK, Outwit, PC, PPX that you would not be able to use in proportion to their 'cost' in the game. I also like the fact that you don't HAVE to use the cards and that they don't have a rarity level associated with them (yet).

These cards will be great for random scenario tourneys. The judge shuffles the deck and picks a card. Bam instant scenario.

I am sad to see that there will be no Madri pogs, but cheap Xmen TA would very easily lend itself to abuse.

And as far a what happens to the guy who pulls three pogs vs the guy who pulls three battlefield condition/feat cards. What happened to the guy who pulled average figs in the Ultimates Marquee vs the guy who pulled Ultimate Thor and Xorn? He got hosed Johnny, seriously hosed.:noid:

[Ed0825]

Originally posted by thugit
I'd be a lot more enthused if they weren't putting a "trump" card like Clear Day or whatever.

Everyone will play that one. Why? Because they won't take the chance of having outwit, perplex, or TK get neutered.


How about fixing some of the problems? No stacked perplex, NAATK?

What's that saying about re-arranging chairs on the Titanic?

--ThugIt (Mr. Negative)

Unless it is house ruled that you can't play that particular card or that you can't use the same condition card in more than one game :)

[psmccormick]

Originally posted by hair10
As for all those who don't like "Ordinary Day", remember... Judges can always impose house rules. ;) [/B]

Yes, and I would think that any judge that REQUIRED Battlefield Conditions would disallow Ordinary.

[MeatLoafX]

These posts are hilarious...

Doom is targeted by Invisible woman LE who then Masterminds onto Franklin Richards...

awesome.

I think the trick to the ordinary day card is that it allows you to cancel 1 other terrain card. Imagine a 4-way game.

Or a 2 vs 2 co-op game - you pack a card, your ally packs the ordinary day card, and you suddenly have some interesting choices to make.

[Thunderbolts]

Oh well, if they use the same domain choosing method in HC tournies as MK ones, then you all just got 2.0'd, whether you wanted it or not.

tb - there's a Storm Gale brewing

[kwsazul]

Originally posted by hair10
As for all those who don't like "Ordinary Day", remember... Judges can always impose house rules. ;)

So you 'impose' battlefield condition use on the players and negate the use of 'ordinary day'. What is to deter me from playing my now even more potent TK/PPX/HSS/Inv Girl turtle?

[Ed0825]

From the pictures, it looks like these will not be normal sized cards and about 2/3 the size of a normal card. If they did that, they would have to make the boxes like mage knight. I guess the only thing I am really disappointed in is that they are not made of styrene.

[igoritzelf]

Originally posted by OpalScion
well, for throwing an object at someone, ok

but moving someone...

they start out adjacent, so they aren't any spaces away....

see where i'm going?

Unless of course, what they mean is "you can't draw Line of Fire beyond 6 spaces"
Then that would truly limit all ranged effects at 6 spaces.
(the destination of TK must be in LOF of TKer)

[sarcastro]

I hope there's a battle field condition card called "flood" or something like that. I'd love to see the aquatics get a boost.

But I suppose multiplayer games could get very complicated with many cards.

Hey, does darkness effect Galactus?

[secretwarrior]

Originally posted by TheLion
Use Franklin Richards to block LOF to one of your figures, now that's the way to play a superhero game... :rolleyes:


my point exactly. Yes everyone I know strategically you can mastermind to him etc.. but it's still pretty sad


and aren't the cards hidden until you play? That is: I paly darkness becasue I don't know if my opponent has Ord Day. Maybe does or doesn't...


Plus, even if he does, he may wait a few turns before using it to throw me off

AND CAN'T THEY TELL US ALL OF THE CARDS?!?!?!?! SHEESH

[StarDuck]

Darkness means Mr.Sinister can play!:grin: :p

[Lex Luthor Jr]

A couple of thoughts...

I don't like these Battlefield Cards. I didn't like the idea when they first announced it. I don't know about all of you, but I am carrying a deck of "Oridnary Day" whenever I go to a tournament, just in case the Judge makes Battlefield Conditions non-optional. I agree with the person that said some conditions will most likely cause more cheese teams. I don't want to face anything cheesier than I already do. Nor do I want my team to be completely emasculated because my opponent was lucky enough to pick the perfect Battlefield Condition to fight my team.

However...

Sometimes I think everyone forgets that not everything in this game is designed solely for tournament play. These Battlefield cards might be kinda fun if I'm playing with some buddies in a fun game over the weekend. We'd probably even do it randomly. "Pick a card. Any card." We could have so you can build your team either before or after you know the conditions.

That would be all well and good. I'd just consider these as being "Pocket Scenerios" and leave it at that. But if players get to choose the conditions, that can make for a lot of cheese and will give some players a new reason to complain.

And to get the ball rolling...

How comic realistic is this? The team fighting gets to decide what the day is like? Better have Storm or The Shade on your team for stuff like that.

And would all conditions effect all characters equally? Take Darkness, for example. Wouldn't Superman be able to see just fine in the dark? All the Superman Allies and Ultimates would be uneffected, wouldn't they? And what about Aquaman and Black Manta? They can see in the Darkest Depths of the ocean. And don't even get me started on Daredevil.

Wouldn't Batman be in Stealth everywhere? And shouldn't you have normal range against a guy like Firestorm. He can have a hard time hiding in the dark.

(Yeah, yeah. I know. You can't argue comic realism in this game. Just poking some fun in those last few paragraphs.)

[tyroclix]

The best way to handle Battlefield Conditions would be to just shuffle a set and flip the top card.

If it's Clear Day it's a normal game.

If it's something else, so be it.

I think these are absolutely great. For me, the game just keeps getting better and better...

[Darkskaven]

I'm relieve that the Bystander tokens will not have TAs.

All this stuff seems good and I say great job to Wizkids !


My main concern is about the Aunt May Bystander tokens given at the Marquees. It's not evident for everyone to attend at such events (I need at least to travel for 2 hours to go to a place where there will be a marquee). So no Aunt May for me. That(s not a drama, just a little annoying.

[tyroclix]

The key problem with Darkness in my mind, is that it will make turtling very easy,

Not likely. Being able to move your Charge figure a lot closer and them not being able to Outwit the Charge will make turtles even less viable then they already are.

A soaring figure can get within 4 spaces and not be outwitted.

And think how much closer CA's will have to be to multi-perplex anyone which will effect LoS.

And that's just one effect. Hopefully there will be a few more...

[YoungTG]

These additions are welcome to me.

Anything that has the potential to spice the game up this much is welcome. As the type of player that beats people with themed teams, perhaps this will alter the type of teams I have to walk through each week to get my LE.

Change is good.

One.

[Thunderbolts]

Originally posted by secretwarrior

Plus, even if he does, he may wait a few turns before using it to throw me off


I'm assuming cards are flipped before the game begins...

[OpalScion]

Originally posted by igoritzelf
Unless of course, what they mean is "you can't draw Line of Fire beyond 6 spaces"
Then that would truly limit all ranged effects at 6 spaces.
(the destination of TK must be in LOF of TKer)

how's this. i'll admit that this was probably the intent, and it should probably be played this way, but the wording isn't quite there. moving someone with Tk, in my eyes, isn't a power or abiltiy that affects a figure up to 10 spaces away. it affects a figure that is adjacent.

although, the figure doesn't "leave the map" like someone being carried does, so they become a figure farther than 6 away that is being affected by the power.... (as someone mentioned before)

oh, just ignore me. i'm just looking for a flaw in what looks like a very cool new part to this game i love, and i don't know why

[Kaitouace]

I think "Ordinary Day" is fine but the way the playing of the conditions is handled is wrong. Like someone said, it'll just be to the point where everyone will probably have Ordinary Day with them just in case. It would be better if you just put a bunch of conditions in a stack and shuffled them and pulled one.

Have each person bring say......3 battlefield condition cards. They can't be the same one. Mix them up and flip a coin. Whoever wins the coin toss gets to pick. Pick one at random. That's it.

Unless you can somehow play battlefield condition cards during a game. But it'll cost you a turn. You can either play normally or lose a turn to play a condition card. In most cases you wouldn't risk losing the turn but if you're already stuck (via Incapacitate) or are really hurting from a condition like Darkness then you can take that turn to play the card (like Ordinary Day to negate a condition). But make it so you can only have 2 or 3 cards you can play per game. Otherwise it'll just turn into a lame CCG.

I also don't see the point of playing with bystanders at all if NONE of them will have powers or team abilities. Of course you'll have your Mastermind fodder guys but that will be the only real use for them. And come on. Franklin Richards without FF team ability? Really. And what would be the point of making guys like Leech or whoever who are real weak but still DO have powers?

Just make a simple rule. Bystander tokens' team abilities can't be copied. And make named bystanders unique so they can't have multiples used of some of them. Random guys like bus driver or whatever is no big deal but named bystanders (like Alfred, Mary Jane, Franklin Richards, etc.) should be unique. So that way you don't have 20 Leeches on a team with Outwit or whatever.

It doesn't make sense to me to design a new system by tying your hands. You should make it how you want and then find out how to keep it from being broken. All these restrictions on upcoming cards, bystanders, and whatnot just makes me go "If there's a condition card to negate all conditions and all bystanders have no powers and team abilities, then what's the point of having them in the first place"? I can see the bystanders still being used but what's the point of making named bystanders if you're going to limit them to having no powers and team abilities. Shouldn't Leech have X-Men or Morlock TA and some form of Outwit? Shouldn't Franklin Richards have FF TA and at least Perplex or something?

It all just seems totally backwards to me. Hopefully Feat Cards will be better. Because with "Ordinary Day" I don't see the point of even using Condition cards the way they seem to be currently set up for play and there's no real point for using future bystanders either unless you need Mastermind fodder.

I really like these ideas but the execution leaves a bit to be desired.

[hair10]

Originally posted by kwsazul
So you 'impose' battlefield condition use on the players and negate the use of 'ordinary day'. What is to deter me from playing my now even more potent TK/PPX/HSS/Inv Girl turtle?
Because we don't know what other Battlefield Condition cards there are and we don't know what effect they might have have on gameplay. Maybe there's a "Lightning Storm" where if two or more figs are caught huddled together they each take a click from a lightning strike (don't stand by the Penguin and his umbrella!). Maybe theres a "Mud and Rain" where all movement (including HSS) and range is halved.

The point is, we don't know. Speculation is fun, but there's no point in anyone getting "up in arms" over anything yet (yes, LLJ I'm talking to you ;)).

I was just thinking out loud when I posted. I'm the type of judge (depending on what all the Battlefield Conditions are, of course) who would absolutely create games where Battlefield Conditions are not optional and Ordinary Day wouldn't be allowed. The point being, you may create a "killer team" but you'll never know what your opponent (or me as the Judge) is packing. Don't ever come to one of my games and expect it to be a "standard 300 point constructed KO your opponent" game. I don't work like that. If you don't like suprises or scenarios... don't play at my venue. :devious:

But like I said... it all depends on what the rest of them look like. :)

[New Warrior]

Gee Golly Gosh!! An Aunt May Pog/click!! I wanted 1 so bad! Its a shame she doesnt have the power cosmic but still! All I need now is Speedball, 2 Gun Kid, Darkhawk and Howard the Duck and Im happy!

[stormfang1502]

I guess I shouldnt be surprised people are complaining about something included as a bonus and completely optional :rolleyes:

Its very simple, if you don't like them, dont use them.
If your venue makes their use mandatory, take that up with the judge.

WKs is experimenting with the mechanics and trying to add a new dimension to the gameplay. I applaud them for that. And I certainly don't expect them to get it perfect on the first try (personally I think they've done a great job though).

[hair10]

Originally posted by Darkskaven
My main concern is about the Aunt May Bystander tokens given at the Marquees. It's not evident for everyone to attend at such events (I need at least to travel for 2 hours to go to a place where there will be a marquee). So no Aunt May for me. That(s not a drama, just a little annoying.
Well, it is a collectible game and all. But regardless, if WK is giving out one per attendee I'm sure there will be lots of extras. I know around here there are 4 places that run marquees and there are people who attend all of them. I don't see Aunt May as being "highly desired" or hard to trade for. There should be extras around to be had.

[Sink74]

The implication I like best about these condition cards is the possibility of having tournaments where a random condition is revealed before beginning each game.

Not to mention that knocking 10 off Galactus' range is just too fun. Pulse Wave me now, chump!

[Sink74]

The implication I like best about these condition cards is the possibility of having tournaments where a random condition is revealed before beginning each game.

Not to mention that knocking 10 off Galactus' range is just too fun. Pulse Wave me now, chump!

[Noman]

Happy with the cards (We've been using our own cards with the game for ages anyway) - and am also happy with the Bystander POGS...

...however, Franklin SHOULD have the FF icon, and Aunt May SHOULD have the Spider Team icon.

As Jarvis, Alfred, Mary Jane, and Alicia all do, so should Aunt May and Franklin.

After all, May and Franklin both either have, or used to have, powers of one sort or another...

Ah well, we'll just have to upgrade the POGS with the team abilities, I guess...

LoL

All the Best

Noman

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by psmccormick
Whats the point of "Ordinary Day"? Why not just say "Nope, I am not playing with Condition Cards"?
Because in Mage Knight, some of the domains only cancel a portion of the other domains. Plus, there may be a Battlefield Condition that specifically cancels "Ordinary Day". There are SEVERAL domains in MK that target specific other domains.

[chimpy2888]

Yeah, if Alicia gets the FF abilty, so should Franklin. He even deserves it more.

[swinte]

Awesome. I'm excited that WK is expanding the game this way. These definitely sound exciting for use in a tournament where the judge would randomly throw out a condition or pick one in advance to make things more interesting. Thanks for the sneak peak, Bro Mags!

[daedalus25]

Originally posted by Funky Jett
Because in Mage Knight, some of the domains only cancel a portion of the other domains. Plus, there may be a Battlefield Condition that specifically cancels "Ordinary Day". There are SEVERAL domains in MK that target specific other domains.

But even if there were another card to cancel "Ordinary Day", "Ordinary Day" would still also cancel that card. So they cancel each other, and the net effect is that "Ordinary Day" wins.

I love the idea of Battlefield Condition cards to spice up the game. But the inclusion of a card as powerful as "Ordinary Day" which can cancel ANY other Battlefield Condition card is very poor foresight. As it stands, "Ordinary Day" is the only Battlefield Condition card where you are GUARANTEED to get the condition you want in the game. It took us absolutely no time at all to recognize the impact of this card. It's hard to imagine that Wizkids, with all the time they've spent developing this set, didn't come to the same conclusion.

[spyrus]

These battle cards almost have to be random in tournements because if i have seen your team, I will know which cards will nullify your team/strategy, and vice versa. These seem fun to me, but only for non-tournement games.

[RavenProject]

It's hard to imagine that Wizkids, with all the time they've spent developing this set, didn't come to the same conclusion.

Or perhaps WK and its playtesters, who have a complete list of the cards, came up with things in the course of play that aren't immediately obvious?

I've got a vision of playing "chicken" with your opponent. You know your force, and you see his. Do you play the card that's going to turn your force into a powerhouse? The card that's going to nerf his strategy? Or do you play it safe?

I suspect that when we see the full list of options and play it for a while we'll see that just calling "Ordinary Day" may not be the best course of action.

-J

[KneelB4Zodd]

Originally posted by thugit
I'd be a lot more enthused if they weren't putting a "trump" card like Clear Day or whatever.

Everyone will play that one. Why? Because they won't take the chance of having outwit, perplex, or TK get neutered.


In MK, don't you bring three domains for a tournament, each of which can be played only in match?

[igoritzelf]

It's amusing to me there there is so much dissent already based on seeing two condition cards.

They're optional. So if you don't like them, don't agree to them.
Wiat until you see more before you get set in an extreme opinion (be it extremely for or against)

That said, It looks like a fun way to mix up the standard "Let's fight for an hour and count the points when we're done."

As far as "ordinary day" being broken or what-not: All it will do (according to what we can see now) is guarantee that neither side is helped nor hindered in a TWO PLAYER GAME. In team games, that's not so clear cut, there could be several cards in play and whoever threw the Ordinary day would have to choose what to cancel.

If most people are throwing Ordinary day, then it's obvious that the group doesn't really want to use the cards, and they will likely fall into disuse at that venue.

[Angelofhate]

Well, what if there's a card that says "May not be countered by Ordinary Day, but is overruled by X" ... Checks and Balances :D

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by daedalus25
But even if there were another card to cancel "Ordinary Day", "Ordinary Day" would still also cancel that card. So they cancel each other, and the net effect is that "Ordinary Day" wins.

I love the idea of Battlefield Condition cards to spice up the game. But the inclusion of a card as powerful as "Ordinary Day" which can cancel ANY other Battlefield Condition card is very poor foresight. As it stands, "Ordinary Day" is the only Battlefield Condition card where you are GUARANTEED to get the condition you want in the game. It took us absolutely no time at all to recognize the impact of this card. It's hard to imagine that Wizkids, with all the time they've spent developing this set, didn't come to the same conclusion.
In MK, the domain cards say, "This card cancels ..." I wouldn't be suprised if there was some type of magic bullet BC card that targets "Oridinary Day" and is worded such that Ordinary Day cannot cancel it, AND leaves it's effects in play.

[FireLFighter]

I like what I read today. (First rulesupdate on which I don't find anything to complain about!!!!!)

No Bystanders with TAs (Wildcard-Extreme) or ultra cheap Perplex/Outwit/PC...

Conditions Optional!
=> Unrestricted Events may include whatever the judge wants, especcially optional rules!
=> The Cancel Card for tourneys!!!
=> Pocket scenarios for casual play!!!!!

Bring the feats on!!!!!!

[Funky Jett]

You know, the funny thing is... Ordinary Day is just the standard conditions we have been playing under all this time. We just never had a card that said that before.

;)

[FireLFighter]

OK, the cards could have been styrene, but hey! I like them anxways!!!

[DS-00-0, FSD]

Originally posted by BrotherMagneto
<b>Ordinary Day</b>.<p align="center"><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBC_004.jpg"></p><p>Ordinary Day - or "stick in the mud," as we referred to it in playtesting -


This pretty much says it all for me...

[mattsolo]

So are the Feat and Condition cards going to be part of the build cost? And how will priority be decided?

[StarDuck]

Originally posted by StarDuck
Darkness means Mr.Sinister can play!:grin: :p

LOL. I just noticed it looks like Mr.Sinister is in the shadows looking at Goblin Queen? Looks like that to me.:classic:

[Funky Jett]

From what I understand, there is a point cost for the Feat cards, but not for the Battlefield Condition cards. At least, that's how it's done in MK with their related cards.

[Magog321]

very cool, but wthat about those Bystanders? are we supposed to pop them out of the cards so they'll be a pog like the old ones? or are we to just let them walk around as cards, prolly taking up 4 or so squares???

[Miraclo]

(I've only read the first page of comments, so apologies if I end up seeming to restate something someone else has said by now.)

Nice! So far the new items are fairly smooth additions to the game. I appreciate the intended even distribution of cards and bystanders, too.

Some details to iron out, but even the ironing should be fun.

As an aside, I expect "Ordinary Day" to be played often enough by enough players that it'll be the first card house- ruled out of some games. I'm curious to see what the other Battlefield Conditions are, though I'm expecting most of them will be more a care of something to disadvantage certain types of characters and teams, so one or the other player will have something to protect and will see more advantage in wanting to protect his own team with an "Ordinary Day." A "Storm" or "Tempest" card - something with high winds to ground flying characters - seems likely to me, and I'd expect some players to build grounded teams and play that card in the hopes of negating another team's flyers.

I'm curious about next week's Feat mechanics overview, but after that I might try to steel myself and try to keep from looking at the actual figure previews. As things stand I already feel I know more about the set than I really want to, and my order's been in for months so it isn't as if I'm still trying to decide


Originally posted by hair10
Wow... everyone who attends a marquee will get Aunt May.

That should thrill the old gal. It'll be like her sorority days all over again! ;)

[TechLee]

That, and it doesn't say it cancels 1 card, it says 1 Condition. Some cards could have more than 1 condition on it, I would think.

The "Storm" or "Tempest" card could be an example of this, having both the flyers are grounded thing and if 2 figs are adjacent at the start of the turn, they both take 1 click of unpreventable damage from a lightning strike.

[DiceShooter]

Originally posted by TechLee
That, and it doesn't say it cancels 1 card, it says 1 Condition. Some cards could have more than 1 condition on it, I would think.

Each card is a Battlefield Condition, so I'd assume that Ordinary Day would wipe out the whole card.

[Miraclo]

Originally posted by TechLee
That, and it doesn't say it cancels 1 card, it says 1 Condition. Some cards could have more than 1 condition on it, I would think.

The "Storm" or "Tempest" card could be an example of this, having both the flyers are grounded thing and if 2 figs are adjacent at the start of the turn, they both take 1 click of unpreventable damage from a lightning strike.

Good points, though I suspect most of the rulings will go towards since "condition" = Battlefield Condition card.

I like the lightning strike aspects, btw.

[capsshield]

I had heard that in a tournament you would choose three battlefield cards and play one for each game and that you could only play a certain type of card once during the event.
otherwise you would need 3 clear day cards.

I also heard that feats cost points and work with a certain character or type of character and that when the character is ko'd the points of the card go with the character to your opponent.

[Nickel97]

Originally posted by StarDuck
LOL. I just noticed it looks like Mr.Sinister is in the shadows looking at Goblin Queen? Looks like that to me.:classic:

It's Elias Bogan's eyes overlooking Sage from the cover of Xtreme Xmen 41.

[Herc]

Its a little sick, but I love the fact that Aunt May is my new polish mine Detector.

Peter Parker : Aunt May, would you look around that corner for me.

Aunt May: Yes Dear

(Sounds of missles, lasers, bullets, explosions amid an ols lady scream)

Peter Parker: Thank you Aunt May
:eek: :devious:

[DS-00-0, FSD]

Originally posted by capsshield
I also heard that feats cost points and work with a certain character or type of character and that when the character is ko'd the points of the card go with the character to your opponent.

Hmm, wonder where that info came from... :rolleyes:

[Miraclo]

Originally posted by DS-00-0, FSD
Hmm, wonder where that info came from... :rolleyes:

Probably from some judge! Cracked pots and leaky sieves, the lot of them! :cheeky:

[GroovyBoy]

Originally posted by MeatLoafX
Very cool info!!

I think everyone knew of a domain that would cancel all others, but it is still slightly disappointing to see it. I really hoped that these cards would totally shake things up, but the normal cracker player will just pack that card.

Still, the cards will make for a very interesting tournament scene if judges are bright enough to make good use of them in scenarios.

:)

I would say that in a multiple-round tournament, the "Ordinary Day" wielder has to declare which effect he is canceling when he wishes to use it, and it only affects the relavent domain for the rest of the tournament (so if they picked "Darkness" and played against "Windy" the next round, too bad). But hey, that's just a house rule I'd come up with for Joe Powergamer...

[The Werle]

Originally posted by OpalScion
it looks like darkness doesn't affect TK

hmmmmmmmmm.....
"powers and abilities that effect characters up to 10 squares away instead effect characters up to 6 squares away."

Sounds like that covers TK to me, and I'm sure any real confusion will be FAQ'd.

[The-Atom]

So there's a 4 person agem and three of the people have battlefield card and one player doe's not want them,do them play with the cards or not????.

[GroovyBoy]

Originally posted by Lex Luthor Jr
A couple of thoughts...

I don't like these Battlefield Cards. I didn't like the idea when they first announced it. I don't know about all of you, but I am carrying a deck of "Oridnary Day" whenever I go to a tournament, just in case the Judge makes Battlefield Conditions non-optional. I agree with the person that said some conditions will most likely cause more cheese teams. I don't want to face anything cheesier than I already do. Nor do I want my team to be completely emasculated because my opponent was lucky enough to pick the perfect Battlefield Condition to fight my team.

However...

Sometimes I think everyone forgets that not everything in this game is designed solely for tournament play. These Battlefield cards might be kinda fun if I'm playing with some buddies in a fun game over the weekend. We'd probably even do it randomly. "Pick a card. Any card." We could have so you can build your team either before or after you know the conditions.

That would be all well and good. I'd just consider these as being "Pocket Scenerios" and leave it at that. But if players get to choose the conditions, that can make for a lot of cheese and will give some players a new reason to complain.

And to get the ball rolling...

How comic realistic is this? The team fighting gets to decide what the day is like? Better have Storm or The Shade on your team for stuff like that.

And would all conditions effect all characters equally? Take Darkness, for example. Wouldn't Superman be able to see just fine in the dark? All the Superman Allies and Ultimates would be uneffected, wouldn't they? And what about Aquaman and Black Manta? They can see in the Darkest Depths of the ocean. And don't even get me started on Daredevil.

Wouldn't Batman be in Stealth everywhere? And shouldn't you have normal range against a guy like Firestorm. He can have a hard time hiding in the dark.

(Yeah, yeah. I know. You can't argue comic realism in this game. Just poking some fun in those last few paragraphs.)

Actually, without the "always carry an 'Ordinary Day' card" zombies [like you], the game will get a lot more interesting. Why? You forget that BOTH teams bring a condition to the table. Sure, player one's condition may be perfect for his/her team, but what will player two's condition do to it (and vice versa)? It's the combination of conditions, half of which a player has no control over, which will add some depth to the game...

[CuriousLurker]

Franklin Richards isn't a member of the FF!?!

Cripes. Reed and Sue get all hot and bothered for an extra click of health if Medusa or She-Hulk drops or even for a wildcarding Rita or Doombot. But their own son? Nothing.

:noid:

Reed: "What's that? Medusa fell to evil plans of Puppet Master?... There'll be heck for that!"

Reed later: "Huh, Sabretooth clawed my 1 click son for 6 clicks of clawing? Well OK. I guess what's done is done."

[Gacy's Clown]

Originally posted by DS-00-0, FSD
Hmm, wonder where that info came from... :rolleyes:

A butthat?

[crookedtooth]

1 Point for goovy, in the "making sense" department...;)

[Gacy's Clown]

Originally posted by GroovyBoy
Actually, without the "always carry an 'Ordinary Day' card" zombies [like you], the game will get a lot more interesting. Why? You forget that BOTH teams bring a condition to the table. Sure, player one's condition may be perfect for his/her team, but what will player two's condition do to it (and vice versa)? It's the combination of conditions, half of which a player has no control over, which will add some depth to the game...

Agreed. Sometimes you may get hosed. Sometimes you may hose your opponent. Sometimes nothing may happen. And Sometimes all sorts of crazy #### may happen.
That's the beauty of them...although I'm not a fan of Ordinary Day already. But, like someone else said, there may be cards that get around it, so it may not be so bad afterall.

[Gacy's Clown]

Originally posted by crookedtooth
1 Point for goovy, in the "making sense" department...;)

Man, you're cheap...:cheeky:

[spider_ham]

Awesome!

One question, though: Are the Bystanders removable [from the cards]? Looks like it's time to cook up another template!

[daedalus25]

Originally posted by crookedtooth
1 Point for goovy, in the "making sense" department...;)

I wouldn't say he gets the point for "making sense". Definitely for being an idealist, though.

In an ideal game setting, nobody would play "Ordinary Day" because they want the excitement of an unexpected game environment where their theme-based teams have to overcome odds to battle each other.

In a real game setting, however, people are going to be playing their turtle teams or perplex teams with dupes and generics galore or what have you. They won't want ANY random condition ruining their already high odds of winning any match, so they'll all be carrying "Ordinary Day" to ensure nothing weakens their teams.

Re: the arguments that "Ordinary Day" will be less effective in a multi-player game environment.

Yes, this is true, however I've not seen any multi-player tournaments around here, so if anyone is playing one of these then it's a fun casual game. So it's not likely many will be using this card for a fun game anyway.

Re: the many judges who have already decided to house rule this card away.

I think that's probably the best idea - it's just a shame that Wizkids gave us a card that we have already decided to ban before it even gets out of the box.

Re: the card that will be immune to "Ordinary Day".

I hope this is correct, though I just doubt this will be the case for some reason. Playtesters have already nicknamed it the "stick in the mud" card, so I would imagine it's the one card that is going to take the fun out of Battle Condition cards.

Now, don't get me wrong. I won't be carrying around any "Ordinary Day" cards because I'm the type of player described in my first paragraph. I just have a feeling that all those players who I go up against whose teams make me roll my eyes in disgust are going to be the same ones throwing down an "Ordinary Day" to cancel any fun condition I try to bring to the table. If I'm being prematurely pessimistic, I apologize. Having Beta-tested a number of games, though, I tend to have a bad habit of looking for the potential problems in a new game element right off the bat.

[WarHULK]

I'm wondering what Franklin Richards with the FF TA would cost... can anyone enter that into one of those magical cost machines and PM me his cost? I'm definately willing to house rule him as a FF team member. It seems wrong not to.

[BrotherMagneto]

Originally posted by spider_ham
One question, though: Are the Bystanders removable [from the cards]?

Yes, they pop out.

[CaptainCanada]

All hail the mighty BrotherMagneto, for he is mighty in his supreme omnipitence! Hip Hip Hooray!

Finally! My Cap'n Britain and Rhino teams will be effective aginst steriod-pumping range-mongers! Like George Harrison said: "Watch out now. Take Care, beware of the thoughts that linger. Winding up inside your head. The hopelessness around you in the dead of night. Beware of Darkness." Bwahah!

[Remjer]

Cool Stuff

Love the Battlefield conditions already

lol this going to be fun :devious:

A little surprised that the new pogs will not have any TA's or powers, but hey that's not really a bad thing, though I kinda agree that Franklin should've had FF TA

Good stuff WK
can't wait till next week now

[hair10]

Originally posted by daedalus25
Re: the many judges who have already decided to house rule this card away.

I think that's probably the best idea - it's just a shame that Wizkids gave us a card that we have already decided to ban before it even gets out of the box.
Just so we're clear... I don't think any Judges (myself included) have stated "oh, we're house ruling to ban that one!". I simply put it out as a possibility, not an inevitability. I (and I think the other Judges) are taking a "we'll wait and see" approach.

It's all just discussion and speculation right now. It's half the fun of getting these sneak peeks. :)

If I'm being prematurely pessimistic, I apologize.
Apology accepted. :grin:

[Likes2smash]

Okay I think all this stuff looks great. Love the battlefield conditions thing. Really, I think the Ordinary Day is neccessary because you know there will be some "borken" cheesy filled "Darkness" or "It's Raining Gamma Irradiated Monsters" based team that everyone will be crying about. This means that even if you base your team around a specific card it still needs to be able to work in the standard format. Personally if someones plays that card then they are just a tease. "oh sure, battelfield conditions sound great. NOT!"

[lukebuchanan]

I can't wait to see the Aunt May LE pimped out on eBay. Priceless.......

Luke B.

[crookedtooth]

Too much negativity. This are generally a good idea. That being said, we don't know what any of the other cards are.

daedalus25 said it best. There will be those who don't use "ordinary day" because they want the added excitement that these cards will bring. Its the people already using those "cheesy" teams that will bring "ordinary." Sounds good so far, maybe players around particular venues won't even want to use them in tourny settings. Who knows, I for one welcome anything to the game that makes it more fun....as if that was possible, I mean we're all posting about a superhero game right? ;)

@ gacy didn't mean to be cheap :cry:

[Maximcards]

Range of 10......So i suppose people with 12 range will be unaffected?

[Draggor]

Actually we mightn't see nothing but Clear day in tournaments. In Mage Knight constructed tournaments you can bring as many domain cards to a tournament as there are rounds minus 1, and none can be duplicates. That means for an average three round tournament each player will only have 1 ordinary day at most out of 2 cards. Sure those turtle teams can play ordinary day to help themselves but they can only use it once. What If they decide to save it till the last round but their opponent used both their battlefield condition cards earlier? I'm going to use them the same way as Mage Knight even if that isn't the official rule. I'll definitely be using them as special scenerios too. Each round is played under random conditions or something similar.

[clix]

Man, I'm diggin the new mechanics. Should be an interesting set.

[Lex Luthor Jr]

A couple more things...

It has been discussed about banning "Ordinary Day". No one has said directly they are doing so, just that the possibility exists. According to the rules, using battlefield conditions is optional, and are used only if both players agree to use them. But "Ordinary Day" might be banned. What does this say? It suggests the posiblity of Judges (and/or players) making Battlefield cards REQUIRED. And if they are required, that's fine. But if I want to play normally, I'll play "Ordinary Day". But if it's banned, I can't play normally. This seems to me to be a problem.

Besides, I have enough trouble putting together a winning team. I need to worry about all the cheese tactics my opponent might use. Now on top of that, I'll need to worry about "Darkness" or "Thunderstorm" or whatever. Big team-building headache when you actually want to win a tournament. I'm not that great of a player, so I have enough trouble. (By the way, what happens if you don't have any Battlefield Cards?)

Anyway, all I'm saying is this: As long as these cards are optional and played normally within the rules, there is no problem. But if they are made to be required, that is going to be a big upset to players who like traditional play.

One last thing, though: I'm just discussing this. I'm not saying these cards need to be eliminated. I'm not whining about their use. I'm not saying anyone who plays with them is cheesy. I'm just talking. That's it. This isn't a serious campaign for me. I really don't even care. I'm just sharing an opinion.

[TheRavenHQ]

I hope some of the bystanders have teeth. Cause if they don't, I'm just going to hope that I don't pull bystanders since they waste space.

[Mordantos]

Originally posted by daedalus25 It took us absolutely no time at all to recognize the impact of this card. It's hard to imagine that Wizkids, with all the time they've spent developing this set, didn't come to the same conclusion. Maybe, just maybe, we don't have all the information that Wizkids is operating from.
Perhaps we are missing information on how often you can play a card. Maybe it will be like in Mage Knight where you use a different domain each round and can't use the same one twice. ("Do I use it in this tournament round or save it for later...")

'Course no one here would over-react to a sneak peak :rolleyes:

Me, I am just happy with the added possibilities and secure in the know edge that I can house rule anything that spoils the play at my venue.

[hair10]

Originally posted by Maximcards
Range of 10......So i suppose people with 12 range will be unaffected?
Now you're just being a rules lawyer.

:p;)

[Funky Jett]

Frankly, I see no reason to ban Ordinary Day. THat's just silly. It's just exactly the same way we play right now, so why does it need to be banned?

Frankly, I think it's just a boring condition.

[Wyldstaar]

I'm all for the pog people not having Team Abilities. No problem there as far as I'm concerned. I would however have liked it if there were a couple with powers. Nothing game altering like Perplex or Outwit. Perhaps a pog equivilant of Scourge for example. Lots of cool powers, but he burns out quite easily.

[Lex Luthor Jr]

Originally posted by hair10
Now you're just being a rules lawyer.

Heh. It isn't even being a rules lawyer. It says "Characters with a range greater than 6 now have a range of 6." No two ways about it.

[kwsazul]

OK so you "ban" the use of ordinary day. I build my ultra min/maxed team of HSS/TK/PPX/Medic/Inv Girl. With this team I play the Darkness card, making my team that much more effective. but you play -X- card that makes your team viable while hurting mine, all while still in the darkness domain? Unless they built cards SPECIFICALLY to bust up the turtle this will never happen. Anything you do will only add to my strategy:
Examples
Mud: All terrain is considered hindering(not a problem for Black Adam)
Wind:All fliers are considered grounded (once again not a problem for a HSS fig)
Low Gravity: a +X bonus to all movement (thanks!)
Lightning storm:Figs adjacent for more than one turn take one click of irreducible damage (ouch!)
-and thats it right there, a card designed specifically to counter the turtle. But what if I am not a turtler, I just happen to use support or *gasp* the Xmen/Teen Titan TA. Now this card that cost you ZERO points of your build total negates a part of my force that I "paid" for in my build total. And thats my problem with it, these cards cost you NOTHING to play. As much as some complain about outwit and ppx at least they have a cost associated with them.

Don't get me confused I am not some guy who hates the idea of his streamlined tourney team getting neutered by a Battlefield Condition Card. I love theme teams/TA only teams, I am simply a realist. Ideally no one would use dupes, people would never use the same tourney team more than once, and stacked ppx would never have been a problem, but realistically people are always going to play to win. And with no card to cancel battlefield conditions, it could get very nasty.

[Bluebeard]

On the bystander issue, I side with all those who wish they would've been a little more... interesting. It seems to me like they're all gonna be 2 point LOS blockers. Franklin Richards is a great idea. Not being on the FF isn't. Come on, the FF need all the help they can get right now.

[kwsazul]

Originally posted by Funky Jett
Frankly, I see no reason to ban Ordinary Day. THat's just silly. It's just exactly the same way we play right now, so why does it need to be banned?

Funny how the way that we currently play is boring or 'stick in the mud. I play 3 times a week every week and the only thing I ever get bored with is "build a 300 pt team" Otherwise its 400 pt theme team, 600 pt TA only team, 800 pt Avengers vs JLA (bring one team of each) 1000 pt Battle of the sexes (bring one team of each) 500 pt good guys vs bad guys. One R One E One V One U/LE no build total, etc.
I usually have fun with these.
And on a sidenote I would love to have a random scenario night where you build a well balanced team and the judge pulls a random card from the deck and announces the scenario for that round. I played one of these and it was fun.
Its one thing to build a team to accomodate a scenario and yet another to build a team that is tailored to a scenario.

[ElectricMonk]

dang, i want to read all of this, but im p*ssd up right now.. what does darkness do? i can't read the text... it's not my vision, i haven't had tht much.. it's my browser i think..any way it's all blured...WTF?

[joferma0]

CLEAR DAY SUCKS!!!


There should only be an opposing card for each condition, not one that cancel them all...

[TKMandroid]

Ok, to help ElectricMonk and others. This is the complete text for Darkness...

Darkness

Characters with range value greater than 5 have a range value of 6 instead. Perplex may not be used to increase a range value greater than 6. Powers and abilities that affect characters up to 10 squares away instead affect characters only up 6 squares away.

I hope this helps.

[warden]

Originally posted by WarHULK
I'm wondering what Franklin Richards with the FF TA would cost... can anyone enter that into one of those magical cost machines and PM me his cost? I'm definately willing to house rule him as a FF team member. It seems wrong not to. Alicia Masters costs 5 points and Franklin has better stats so I'd say make him 6 points.

Not making him part of the FF is crazy. And not having any more team bystanders makes this feature of MM quite lame. If anyone should belong to the Spider-Man team, it's Aunt May. And the reason for these failures is that wild card teams are broken.

WK should bite the bullet and change the way that wild cards work so that they don't continue to spoil the game. Ideally they should be redesigned to have different new abilities. Until then, the simple house rule that I recommend for them is that they may declare a team allegiance once per game. Once they've chosen that team, they stick with it for the rest of the game, even if the team mate that they are copying is KOed. This makes the wild card team ability balanced and eliminates the timing loops you get if they can keep switching.

If you play with this rule then a FF Franklin isn't a game breaker. If Dr Doom is babysitting him and gets attached to him then that means Doom can't be on some other team that day.

Andrew

[Sanity]

Maybe there will be a feat card such as this:

"If you have a 'Storm' or 'Ororo Munroe' or 'Weather Wizard' character in your team, then give them a power action- you may change any one battlefield condition card to one of your choice."

Well I guess they wouldn't mention Weather Wizard, since he is DC but you get the gist of it.

And I'm not so sure about the 'Darkness' one. What about smoke cloud/darkness - isn't that power already supposed to represent darkness?

Shade: Well I'm gonna use Darkness- Mwahaha!
Flash: It's already dark...
Shade: Er. Well now its... darker?

IMO they should either have made 'Darkness' have the same effect as the smoke cloud/darkness power (albeit throughout the entire map) or it should be called something else. Like 'Sandstorm' or 'Lost a contact lense'.

[hair10]

Originally posted by kwsazul
but realistically people are always going to play to win. And with no card to cancel battlefield conditions, it could get very nasty.
Relax k-w-s-azul... it's all still speculation. We've seen (count 'em with me now people) exactly 2 conditions so far. We have no idea what the others will be. :)

[skyounkin]

skyounkin stands up stretches and pats himself on the back....

I called limited edtions pogs like forever ago!! Of course I also called a Franklin pog too.....mine just didn't ####...:p

I enjoy that wizkids is constantly coming up with new mechanics for the game!! Will I use them, probably.

:cool:

[grey_zealot]

Originally posted by Sanity
And I'm not so sure about the 'Darkness' one. What about smoke cloud/darkness - isn't that power already supposed to represent darkness?



It depends on how "literally" you are taking the name of a power/ability versus the game mechanic it intends.

Barrier: creation of temporary Blocking Terrain.

Smoke Cloud: creation of temporary Hindering Terrain.


the whole "darkness" thing is left to your imagination as a player.


(Like trying to figure out the "continuity" in a comics universe! :grin: )

[skyounkin]

The LE pogs aren't going to take the place regular le prize support are they? Cause that would really blow chunks.

[yitjuan]

Originally posted by joferma0
CLEAR DAY SUCKS!!!


There should only be an opposing card for each condition, not one that cancel them all...

for those of you who keep on saying that Clear Day is borken and they didn't playtest it enough and all that BS , for your information they already have an exact copy of Clear Day in Mage Knight , and guess what? Nobody complains about it.

Of course , they have much cooler sub-faction abilities , and extra abilities ... and cooler special powers ... and nicer sculpts ... *sighs*

[TheLion]

What I fail to see is how bringing another fantasy skirmish game mechanic (Heroclix Battlefield conditions = Mage Knight Domains) will be good for a superhero battle game.

Are we going to get Heroclix equivalents for Storm Gale, Blasted Lands, etc. since we are getting duplicates of Darkeness (Darkness) and Clear Skies (Ordinary Day)?

I really wish Wizkids would hire designers for Heroclix that are separate from the Mage Knight designing crew, Heroclix deserves better than a Mage Knight re-tread game mechanic that (once again) does not fit a superhero battle game.

[DarkCrisis]

I can tell ya right now tha if I'm playing (and paying for) a range team I will carry a Clear Day with me.

[cheetor]

Personally I am delighted with free extra stuff in every booster to add another fun element or two to the game.

Go Wizkids.

People get way to hung up on tournament play in my opinion and subsequently lose sight of the reasons that we actually play games like this in the first place.

Im happy that there are Bystanders at all , with or without TA's.

The Battlefield Conditions look like a great, straightforward addition to my favorite type of Clix game, the one where all the players are just trying to have a good fun comic book based game.

They are an easy way to break a little from the monotony of the 3-400 point "line them up and then knock em down" tournament style game IMO.

So basically when you want to play hardcore competitive tournament games pack your "Ordinary Day" card.
Otherwise use the other ones for fun games.

Then everyones happy.

Unless you are still waiting for a Namor or classic Green Goblin fig, obviously :grin:

[superfriend]

Bro Mags,

My budget for HC has been drasticly reduced to 20$ a month. Paying 5$ to play once or twice a month and a booster or two is all I can spend. I've been skipping on Ultimates waiting for Mutant Mayhem. But I am really much more of a DC fan. Will these or similar cards be offered again in the next DC release? Or will they be offered separately?

If this has already been asked and answered, can someone just point me to the page?

Thanks.

[AlgertMan]

Originally posted by capsshield

I also heard that feats cost points and work with a certain character or type of character and that when the character is ko'd the points of the card go with the character to your opponent.

you are a butthat
the person who told you that is butthat, and needs to be banned

[igoritzelf]

Originally posted by CuriousLurker

Reed: "What's that? Medusa fell to evil plans of Puppet Master?... There'll be heck for that!"

Reed later: "Huh, Sabretooth clawed my 1 click son for 6 clicks of clawing? Well OK. I guess what's done is done."

I move that this scenario happen in the FF comic....
hilarious.

[Jack Squat]

Originally posted by igoritzelf
I move that this scenario happen in the FF comic....
hilarious.

At least we agree on that.

[BrotherMagneto]

Originally posted by superfriend
Bro Mags,

My budget for HC has been drasticly reduced to 20$ a month. Paying 5$ to play once or twice a month and a booster or two is all I can spend. I've been skipping on Ultimates waiting for Mutant Mayhem. But I am really much more of a DC fan. Will these or <B>similar cards</b> be offered again in the next DC release? Or will they be offered separately?

If this has already been asked and answered, can someone just point me to the page?

Thanks.

*Looks into "Magic 8-Ball 'o The Future 'o HeroClix" *

8-Ball says:

Looks promising.

;)

[Gentlegamer]

Originally posted by BrotherMagneto
*Looks into "Magic 8-Ball 'o The Future 'o HeroClix" *

8-Ball says:

Looks promising.

;)
ARRR! Then I can wait fer the next DC set for the carda and pogs.

"Avast! I pulled a Gotham Fog battlefield conditon card!"

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by Gentlegamer
ARRR! Then I can wait fer the next DC set for the carda and pogs.

"Avast! I pulled a Gotham Fog battlefield conditon card!"
I've heard from a very reliable source, this will be one of the DC Feat cards --

Bat Nipples

All Batman Ally team members get +2 to their attack rolls because the opposing team is laughing too hard at their costumes to bother protecting themselves.

Cost = 0, but permanently embarassed

[SpakSpang]

This battlefield condition cards got me thinking. What stats would be altered for battle...or what conditions could be created. Here are a few fun ones I thought of. Some will work really well, others won't and are just my silly ideas.

Heavy Gravity:
1/2 Speed movement for all characters
Low Gravity:
All characters are treated as flying, however only flying characters can soar.
Poisoned Field:
All characters must take a click of poison damage at the end of their turn. Can be reduced by damage reducing powers.
Super Damage:
All damage dealt by close combat attacks is doubled. The effect is cancelled if perplex or close combat expert is used to modified values.
No Hindering:
All hindering terrain is treated as clear terrain for movement, targeting and powers.
Speed Zone:
Double the movement values for all characters.
Clear Vision:
Add +2 to the range of all characters with a range value of 2 or greater.
They Might Be Giants:
All characters with 0 range are turned into Giant Figures for the Battle.
Indoor Out:
Indoor Maps are treated with the same rules of Outdoor maps.
Flood Conditions: (Only played on Outdoor maps)
All clear terrain (outside starting area) is now treated as water. Elevated and Hindering Terrain are now considered clear terrain.
High Winds:
All flying characters are treated as grounded characters for the battle.
Crazy Damage:
After all successful attacks role 1D6 to determine damage dealt to characters.

[Squid_blk]

Battle Condition Cards and Feat Cards seem like a good idea but how does that change things. People continue to play mixed Universes and mix heros and villains. Gee Dr. Doom with Robin, a FF bystander token, and She-hulk sounds like a good superhero team to me--not. I thought Bystander Token/Pogs were suppose to be for scenarios and not part of team builds. Now WK is promoting them for team use? With no actions after Taxi, the Stealthed turtled Range team dominates game play. If I cannot get to you with TK and Charge then I cannot win. If I play a turtle team in response then that is no fun because nobody will move. And gee having to use the same figures all the time in a tournament is not allowing me to use the other figures I have. Abandoning the tourney scene is the only way to get good play in these days. I agree with The Lion. Keep Mage Knight out of HeroClix. Mage Knight seems to have jumped the shark and I don't want that to happen with HeroClix but it seems to be heading that way. Come on WK fix the rules instead of piling more unbalanced min/maxed tweaks on top of it.

[kwsazul]

Originally posted by hair10
Relax k-w-s-azul... it's all still speculation. We've seen (count 'em with me now people) exactly 2 conditions so far. We have no idea what the others will be. :)
*takes a breath closes eyes and exhales* ;) :p
Its okay Hair10, like Lex Jr said I am not up in arms or anything like that, I was simply trying to make my point. The same people who complain about clear day/stick in the mud/boring gameplay are the same people who complain about cheese/MinMaxing/Powergaming. I just wanted to point out that without clear day (ie house ruling no use) it could get even worse.
I think that the battlefield Condition Cards (can we just call them BCC's or maybe BFCC's thats alot to type) I think that BCC's are an interesting/fun game mechanic and I look forward to seeing what else WK has to offer, but I would not want to use them in every game. And to all the Clear day naysayers, based on what the MK players are saying you will only be able to play one BCC per round and one round will have no BCC's.

[hair10]

Originally posted by BrotherMagneto
*Looks into "Magic 8-Ball 'o The Future 'o HeroClix" *

Man... I gotta get me one of those...


Anybody got one for trade? ;) :p

[I Am The Game]

I expect we'll see battlefield condition cards as often as we see the 3d objects in play. A nice accessory, but they'll stay in most people's boxes in favor of a simpler game. (BTW, PM me if you've got an outdoor construction map for sale, someone swiped mine!) Most likely, I'll just have to run a surprise scenario, and draw a card at random at the beginning of each round.

As far as house ruling Franklin, 6 points FF TA sounds good, but the only pog I ever see in play is Alfred, so it doesn't really matter. I'm inclined to do something more special with him. Which one do you like better? If Franklin is KOed by an opponent:

A: Franklin retaliates with 1d6 worth of damage against the attacker. This damage is unavoidable. "Bad man, go away!" :devious:

B: All FF members are fully healed, no wildcarding.

C: Reed flips out... you have 5 turns to KO Mr. Fantastic before he builds a bomb that will atomize the universe!

[KneelB4Zodd]

Originally posted by Squid_blk
I thought Bystander Token/Pogs were suppose to be for scenarios and not part of team builds.

I was always under the impression that they were intended to be fully useable figures.

In fact, paranoia suggests that the reason they don't have Bystanders with team abilities is because you need to get the map packs to get those. ;)

[skyounkin]

Originally posted by Funky Jett
I've heard from a very reliable source, this will be one of the DC Feat cards --

Bat Nipples

All Batman Ally team members get +2 to their attack rolls because the opposing team is laughing too hard at their costumes to bother protecting themselves.

Cost = 0, but permanently embarassed

And the ones on Batgirl just makes her opponents having problems standing up straight.....

From getting leg cramps, yeah, LEG CRAMPS, that's the ticket!!!

[antedoX]

i think these are gonna really make the game more interesting. and lots of hate to any naysayer who thinks that one card will neuter their team :) build more versatile teams! no matter what card gets played, i'll be sure that my card is packed with little helpers to my team to offset the imbalance.

can't wait to see the feats preview, just to get an idea of average point values! :)

[MSU]

Originally posted by Bluebeard
On the bystander issue, I side with all those who wish they would've been a little more... interesting. It seems to me like they're all gonna be 2 point LOS blockers. Franklin Richards is a great idea. Not being on the FF isn't. Come on, the FF need all the help they can get right now.

Well, in November, its going to be Alicia and Le Invisible Women in the FF...really now the Fantastic One and Alicia. Oh, and all the wildcards you can add to the fight. :-)

I am happy and not happy that they don't have powers or team abilities. I hate that Alfred gives the entire Legionnaire team stealth, or Mary Jane and Alicia give the Doom team one click of health. But...its fun!! Who here hasn't cursed the name of that wacky Wayne Manor butler who has caused more grief for 6 points that all 200+ points of KC Supes? :p

[naganuuch]

Originally posted by Squid_blk
Battle Condition Cards and Feat Cards seem like a good idea but how does that change things. People continue to play mixed Universes and mix heros and villains. Gee Dr. Doom with Robin, a FF bystander token, and She-hulk sounds like a good superhero team to me--not. I thought Bystander Token/Pogs were suppose to be for scenarios and not part of team builds. Now WK is promoting them for team use? With no actions after Taxi, the Stealthed turtled Range team dominates game play. If I cannot get to you with TK and Charge then I cannot win. If I play a turtle team in response then that is no fun because nobody will move. And gee having to use the same figures all the time in a tournament is not allowing me to use the other figures I have. Abandoning the tourney scene is the only way to get good play in these days. I agree with The Lion. Keep Mage Knight out of HeroClix. Mage Knight seems to have jumped the shark and I don't want that to happen with HeroClix but it seems to be heading that way. Come on WK fix the rules instead of piling more unbalanced min/maxed tweaks on top of it.

I originally felt the same way about about the Battlefield Conditions and the Feat cards. But, on further consideration, I think they will actually enhance the game quite a bit.

Hopefully, the feat cards will be able to give a team the powers and abilities it needs to compete in tournaments without having to use figures like Destiny, Mandroid Armor, Con Artist, Paramedic, etc. all of the time. Consider this: what if a Feat Card allowed actions after taxiing? Also, if the Pounce card does what we think it does, that opens up a whole range of possibilities with characters that were formerly all but useless (i.e. Spiderman, Hulk, veteran Black Panther). And I would expect that other feat cards would do the same.

As for Battlefield Conditions, they offer ways of limiting so-called *cheese* (which I don't believe really exsists anyway) without annoying, imbalanced scenarios, or-- even worse-- house rules.

That being said, I still believe Wizkids has a way to go before they make up for what they did with the whole retirement thing, but give the new ideas a chance.

[Likes2smash]

Originally posted by warden
If anyone should belong to the Spider-Man team, it's Aunt May.
Andrew

See here I would have to disagree. IMHO if Aunt May teamed up with say Batman, I do not believe she would automatically become a crazy stealth ninja. Nor do I think she would share defense with Hawkman or become a quick acting, fast moving gear in the well oiled machine that is the Avengers, just by deciding to help them to combat the Masters of Evil. Doom or Baron Zemo might push her in the way of Thor's mighty hammer but I really think that is all the use she would be in a combat situation. Though I do hear she can wield a nasty umbrella.

Perhaps if she made chicken soup and told everyone to wear a scarf...

What they should do is make her only be able to wildcard the power cosmic TA. Golden Oldie to the Rescue!!! Someone give me the point cost on that pog.

[Likes2smash]

Originally posted by warden
If anyone should belong to the Spider-Man team, it's Aunt May.
Andrew

See here I would have to disagree. IMHO if Aunt May teamed up with say Batman, I do not believe she would automatically become a crazy stealth ninja. Nor do I think she would share defense with Hawkman or become a quick acting, fast moving gear in the well oiled machine that is the Avengers, just by deciding to help them to combat the Masters of Evil. Doom or Baron Zemo might push her in the way of Thor's mighty hammer but I really think that is all the use she would be in a combat situation. Though I do hear she can wield a nasty umbrella.

Perhaps if she made chicken soup and told everyone to wear a scarf...

What they should do is make her only be able to wildcard the power cosmic TA. Golden Oldie to the Rescue!!! Someone give me the point cost on that pog.

[Bad6423]

Finally, a reason to pay an extra $1 a booster...

[Likes2smash]

d'oh double post

[K-Ness]

Originally posted by hair10
Man... I gotta get me one of those...


Anybody got one for trade? ;) :p


I'll trade you one of mine for a case of POWERBOMB! They're getting harder to come by and I'm still missing half of the set, including Macy Gray.

;)

[CarlosMucha]

My Opinion: As a collector: I dont have problem with the battlefield conditions is just aextra nice for good scenarios but I agree with some guys here: must be random not choise, remember, when you choise the weather??

Bytanders: NO NO NO!!! why not team abilities?? you already do the others bystanders WITH team ab and now no??? THAT is what I dont like about Wiz Kids: dont have "continum" I mean: or all without teams or all with the teams who deserve because now we will have Alicia Master with F4 team and Frankling without tream?! bad desicion Wiz Kids. You have fear aout the cheeze teams?? we already have the others bytanders, then forget about it, but... I think is too late already...:disappoin

[superfriend]

Originally posted by BrotherMagneto
*Looks into "Magic 8-Ball 'o The Future 'o HeroClix" *

8-Ball says:

Looks promising.

;)

Thanks! I'll buy some Ultimates, some Mayhem, and some of the next DC and get some of the bonuses of each set!

[Whiz Fan]

Originally posted by sarcastro
I hope there's a battle field condition card called "flood" or something like that. I'd love to see the aquatics get a boost.



You and your aquatics. Honestly, how many of your posts deal with aquatic characters? ;)

[sarcastro]

You and your aquatics. Honestly, how many of your posts deal with aquatic characters?

Probably about half of them. Improving that movement ability seems to be my number one cause. Hopefully the Battle field and feat cards will do the trick. Then I can move on to my next project, getting them to make an Ego the Living Planet clix.

Love your signature, by the way.

[CarlosMucha]

the aquatic guys are important for me:
Namor, Aquaman, Aqualad, and even if is not auquatic characteres the rain can be a dramatic scenario for any dramatic battles (I'm thiking in Matrix Revolutions and Batman Dead end)

[DarthZaius]

Meh. I call being "stick in the mud" guy at my local venues.:ermm: So sayeth the Despiser of Pogs.

/will still wait to see 'em all before mind is made up 100%

[warden]

Originally posted by Likes2smash
See here I would have to disagree. IMHO if Aunt May teamed up with say Batman, I do not believe she would automatically become a crazy stealth ninja. I don't think Spider-Man would either. His ability is currently the exact opposite of a "team" - it encourages you to play him with strangers rather than characters like Aunt May and Black Cat. The ability should be changed so that it's a proper team. And this should be part of a general revision to eliminate wild-card cheese. If there are no wild cards, then there's no obstacle to putting bystanders in their proper teams.

Andrew

[Gentlegamer]

Originally posted by warden
I don't think Spider-Man would either. His ability is currently the exact opposite of a "team" - it encourages you to play him with strangers rather than characters like Aunt May and Black Cat. The ability should be changed so that it's a proper team. And this should be part of a general revision to eliminate wild-card cheese. If there are no wild cards, then there's no obstacle to putting bystanders in their proper teams.

Andrew
ARRR!!! The initial idea behind wildcards, at least the Spider-Man Ally TA, is that of the "guest star." Spider-Man is well known to guest star on other teams so it seems to make sense at first glance. In practice, wildcard TAs create such an atmosphere of abuse and min/maxing (esp with pogs in the picture) that I too would support eliminating wildcard TAs altogether, replacing them with an actual TA. Probably will never happen though . . .

[SpakSpang]

I think Wildcard teams would be fine if you choose once what team ability they will be and they have to stay that team ability for the game.

This creates that Guest Star feel to the game...and allows you to design teams with wildcards to act like members of the team you are building.

Last, it would free Wizkids to not be afraid to make more wildcards and more powerful wildcard figures because they know the wildcard just means you can pick 1 team ability for your character to use the entire game.

Ok this is really the last point, It would also change the game dynamic that your wildcard could keep the team ability even after all the members on your team with such ability are gone. It creates a more stable enviroment for both your opponent and you to play in. Creating a more stable world for that game.

[rotru]

Not counting the pogs, I really think that Wildcard cheese is probably the least offensive cheese out there. I mean, Perplex is pretty obviously (to me, at least) the most abusive factor in this game by a long shot. That being said, I also don't think I'd mind too much if it were changed to one copied team per game. That would certainly eliminate any possibility of true cheese while not making the TA worthless.

Still, even if such a change were made, I admit that every once in a while, I would play the current rules in home games. It's just awesome to see Spider-Man and Hellboy copy all the great abilities.

[Likes2smash]

Originally posted by warden
I don't think Spider-Man would either. His ability is currently the exact opposite of a "team"
Andrew

Because he isn't on a team. However he has teamed-up with everyone from Iceman to Alpha Flight in a little book called "Marvel Team-up". The wild card ability is suppose to reflect his ability to adapt to these different partners and work effectively with there team thus gaining their "team ability". Aunt May however has only ever effectively teamed up with Anna to gossip. I personally have no problem with them replacing this with another team ability as all spidey teams pay for the team ability and get nothing. I just don't think people should complain that Aunt May doesn't have a team ability. Heck I don't think Alicia and MJ should have team abilities but yes for Mr. Pennyworth. I think that Franklin should have the Power Pack team ability to somehow defeat Sabertooth.

[Gentlegamer]

ARR!!! I'd be all for limiting wildcards to using only one TA per turn . . .

[bootkneelee]

And how was it that Power Pack could beat Sabertooth and Wolverine always had trouble??????? :noid:

[igoritzelf]

Originally posted by bootkneelww
And how was it that Power Pack could beat Sabertooth and Wolverine always had trouble??????? :noid:

Because Wolverine is a Wuss and the Power Pack are Super-AWESOME!!!:knockedou