Marvel HeroClix Mutant Mayhem Sneak Peek: Cards! [Archive]

BrotherMagneto

09/22/2004, 13:25

<P>Regular <i>Mutant Mayhem</i> Sneak Peeks begin next week!<CENTER><table BORDER="1"><tr><TD><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBT_03.jpg"></td></tr><tr><TD><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBT_05.jpg"></td></tr><tr><TD><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBC_05.jpg"></td></tr><tr><TD><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMBC_06.jpg"></td></tr><tr><TD><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMFE_01.jpg"></td></tr><tr><TD><img src="http://www.wizkidsgames.com/images/figures/rotating/HMMM/MMFE_03.jpg"></td></tr></table></center>

drgnoftyr

09/22/2004, 13:25

hehe very kool..........

Angelofhate

09/22/2004, 13:26

Oh, I guess I did spoil the sneak peak ... hehe.

drgnoftyr

09/22/2004, 13:27

angelofhate you ruined my suprise hehe:grin: :grin:

Hadez

09/22/2004, 13:27

well, Cool but spoiled.
Thanks anyway Guys
Can't wait for previews

4est

09/22/2004, 13:28

Woohoo Xorn has a use with War Zone. Auto Regen sounds nice for big bruisers with Regen like General and Despero.

El Poolman

09/22/2004, 13:28

White Noise, never leave home without it.

LeaLu

09/22/2004, 13:29

Ooh, War Zone is the first battlefield condition card I've really liked. Death to the Paramedic!

drgnoftyr

09/22/2004, 13:29

Originally posted by El Poolman
White Noise, never leave home without it.

more like clear day never leave home w/o it....;) ;)

Sink74

09/22/2004, 13:31

Looks like Xorn just got a whole lot better.

DraXXXen

09/22/2004, 13:32

All Cool, except the pogs. Would be cool to see some pogs with either team abilities or very different stats which would warrent playing them in a game other then a scenerio.

Mad

09/22/2004, 13:32

There is no question WK pays close attention to this site. Auto Regen, War Zone and White Noise have all been mentioned as rules suggestion or house rules before. Not forgetting Rip it up.

stormfang1502

09/22/2004, 13:33

Auto Regen looks awesome!
Finally Wolverine can be played the way he was meant to be.

The Battelfield Condition cards look nice too, but the fact that their optional and your opponent has to agree to their use diminishes their effectiveness I think.

Kaitouace

09/22/2004, 13:33

I still wish Bystanders would have TA's. Just to see if they would have been crazy enough to give Flash Thompson Syndicate TA. Heh.

But White Noise and Automatic Regeneration are welcome and War Zone is interesting. No more Paramedics with that card. It also might favor using actual characters with Support.

Goodness. I just realized that Xorn has Support and 4 damage on his first click.

rouge2

09/22/2004, 13:38

Originally posted by stormfang1502
Auto Regen looks awesome!
Finally Wolverine can be played the way he was meant to be.

The Battelfield Condition cards look nice too, but the fact that their optional and your opponent has to agree to their use diminishes their effectiveness I think.

They are optional in the sense of Team Abilities. YOU don't have to play them if you don't want to. Your opponent has no say in the matter, and you have no say in whether he plays them or not. Just like the 3D Objects.

dino1626

09/22/2004, 13:43

So does this mean Ultimate Hulk on his click of 6 damage using Haymaker can do 8 damage,and then he takes 1 point of damage.A fair trade off.

ohoni

09/22/2004, 13:47

Actually 3D objects ARE optional, both players have to agree to their use.

Anyways, I like these cards. Much better than Fastball Special's gimpyness. I expect to use War Zone and Automatic Regeneration a lot.

deathsythe

09/22/2004, 13:48

I love both War Zone and Automatic Regenration. Ya Wolverine and alike. Building off of what dino1626 said hulk with a heavy object on his 6 damage click with Haymaker. 10 clicks without using stacking perplex, nice.

deathsythe

09/22/2004, 13:50

sorry, don't think you can use and object and haymaker at the same time.

Gentlegamer

09/22/2004, 13:52

Originally posted by Mad
There is no question WK pays close attention to this site. Auto Regen, War Zone and White Noise have all been mentioned as rules suggestion or house rules before. Not forgetting Rip it up.
It does seem that way, doesn't it?

Now, we just have to find a way to make sure Ordinary Day doesn't ruin all the fun!

q111111

09/22/2004, 13:53

Warzone and White Noise do not have a point cost?

stormfang1502

09/22/2004, 13:55

Originally posted by rouge2
They are optional in the sense of Team Abilities. YOU don't have to play them if you don't want to. Your opponent has no say in the matter, and you have no say in whether he plays them or not. Just like the 3D Objects.

You should probably check out the original announcement about Battlefield Conditions.

Originally posted by BrotherMagneto
Battlefield conditions alter terrain, weather, or other properties on the battlefield. Using battlefield conditions is optional, though if players agree to use them, then all players must use them.

All players must agree to their use. If one person doesnt agree then they can not be used.

rouge2

09/22/2004, 13:56

Originally posted by ohoni
Actually 3D objects ARE optional, both players have to agree to their use.

That was changed about a year ago (Indy rules and onwards). Currently only the Judge can disallow their use.

From the FAQ:

3D objects from Adventure Kits are legal unless otherwise specified by the Judge running the event.

Hope that helps.

Gentlegamer

09/22/2004, 13:57

Originally posted by q111111
Warzone and White Noise do not have a point cost?
Battlefield Conditions do not have point costs.

Thunderbolts

09/22/2004, 14:22

Justice Is Served(!) + Haymaker = 41 point Magog. He may not charge and he may not have a 13 to hit, but he's 160 points less!

tb - that's gonna be vicious, especially if brick-users are packing white noise

Makaveli

09/22/2004, 14:29

Well I was honestly hoping to see the LEs for November, but this is a happy suprise as well. I can't wait to feild The General with Auto-Regen, finally he will be feared... well maybe not, but it is still a kick arse addition. Now I just have to work on getting money and finding a venue to play tournies at that isn't on Sunday (you just don't mess with a man's football). Thanks for the suprise WK, can't wait for the set.

Makaveli

09/22/2004, 14:31

hmm won't let me edit, anywho that should be "field" and "surprise"

tyroclix

09/22/2004, 14:35

What I like about these Battlefield Condition cards is they are making Clear Day less valuable.

Sure if you are the "best" player at your venue you can just force your opponent to play a straight up team. But if you are using one really expensive figure it might be better to add a little insurance against being Outwitted rather than making sure you can use an 8 point Paramedic.

Really, really great stuff here.

Sink74

09/22/2004, 14:36

It looks like WK is using these BC cards to fix some of the game's problems without changing any rules. I'm all in favor of not adding rules, since the best thing about Clix is the relatively simple rules. I kibitzed a couple guys playing Warhammer the other day, and I nearly got a migrane.

Support and Outwit were at the top of the list of groan-inducing game mechanics. I also like how they didn't get outlawed, just made a little less effective. So, you either have to play Clear Day and not use a BC of your own, or you have to make a more robust team.

I, for one, am happy and looking forward to the set. Out of curiousity, does anyone think Darkness could be nearly as effective as White Noise just by kicking the range of these powers down to 6?

Sink74

09/22/2004, 14:37

Originally posted by Makaveli
Well I was honestly hoping to see the LEs for November, but this is a happy suprise as well. I can't wait to feild The General with Auto-Regen, finally he will be feared... well maybe not, but it is still a kick arse addition. Now I just have to work on getting money and finding a venue to play tournies at that isn't on Sunday (you just don't mess with a man's football). Thanks for the suprise WK, can't wait for the set.

They're not messing with anyone's football. All the good football is played on Saturday...

dernjg

09/22/2004, 14:41

So much good news, this one's slipping off the front page. Might want to fix that.

Kaitouace

09/22/2004, 14:48

Curious. Is the prerequisite for Automatic Regeneration JUST Regen or does your character actually have to have Regen showing on his dial?

kyrinthic

09/22/2004, 14:52

so, whats the exact deal with haymaker?

The basics are obvious, its about as effective as SS with an object or CCE. it adds 2 to the damage, but the questions I have are these,

1. does it take an action from your pool for the turn? ie, if its a free action other than the push click.

2. Does the figure using it get an action token for doing so? if not it would be quite powerful.

3. Can you use it more than once per turn on different figures?

4. If for some reason the first three answers are favorable, can you use it more than once a turn on the same figure, so long as you kept taking push clicks? (god I would hope this one at least is a no)?

Just trying to figure out the point of this card, since its basically #### if all of these questions are unfavorable, and its absurdly overpowered if they are all favorable. So where does it lie in between?

-Kyrinthic

AlgertMan

09/22/2004, 14:57

Auto-Regen rocks

just imagine the unkillable "General"

just like in the comics

schicantek

09/22/2004, 14:58

I've always had a passion for trying to demolish people with pieces that they considered 'bad'. The General isn't so bad by himself, but his TA is horrid, and all his regen just leaves him open to a return hit with no damage reducers.
Now that the Auto Regen feat is out, I declare The General a Monster. He'll be much harder to take out with so many clicks of regen, and now he'll never have to waste a turn just to try and heal, or worse yet, have to push!
Other upgraded click are those with lots of regen to posssibly land on; Wolvie's been mentioned, how about Sabertooth or Mr. Sinister?
Man so may of the BFC are great fun, it's too bad they made Ordinary Day, huh?

Sink74

09/22/2004, 14:59

Originally posted by kyrinthic
so, whats the exact deal with haymaker?

The basics are obvious, its about as effective as SS with an object or CCE. it adds 2 to the damage, but the questions I have are these,

1. does it take an action from your pool for the turn? ie, if its a free action other than the push click.

2. Does the figure using it get an action token for doing so? if not it would be quite powerful.

3. Can you use it more than once per turn on different figures?

4. If for some reason the first three answers are favorable, can you use it more than once a turn on the same figure, so long as you kept taking push clicks? (god I would hope this one at least is a no)?

Just trying to figure out the point of this card, since its basically #### if all of these questions are unfavorable, and its absurdly overpowered if they are all favorable. So where does it lie in between?

-Kyrinthic

Well, it requires a Close Combat Action, so yes it does use an action, you get a token for doing it, you can use it on different figs if they both have the feat, and you can only use it once per fig per turn.

swinte

09/22/2004, 14:59

That's what I was wondering, too. I'm assuming from the wording of the card that this means that you have to have regen showing on your dial. This will make a huge difference when playing characters with regen.

dal_johnson

09/22/2004, 15:00

I have the same question as Kaitouace. Does the pre-requisite ability have to be actually showing on the dial to use the feat card, or do they just have to get the abiliity at some point in time.

Sink74

09/22/2004, 15:01

Originally posted by Kaitouace
Curious. Is the prerequisite for Automatic Regeneration JUST Regen or does your character actually have to have Regen showing on his dial?

You can pay the cost to put it on anybody, but it can't be used unless the bearer has the prereqs on his/her dial.

de4dp00l

09/22/2004, 15:02

The pre-requisite has to show on the dial.

Ignatz_Mouse

09/22/2004, 15:03

The General just became the monster he always should have been.

schicantek

09/22/2004, 15:05

Well, logically the figure must have the prereqs only when they try to use the card. No figure in the game to date starts with regen, so that card would be completely useless.
Good question on the having the power on a diiferent click at any point in the dial. It makes sense to me that when you try to use the card that you must fill the prereqs. That negates the having to click through the dial to prove a char actually has a power or not, which is against the rules.

de4dp00l

09/22/2004, 15:07

Automatic Regeneration will make Sabertooth and Wolverine very difficult to kill in all of their forms - Regenerate as a free action, and if doesn't go anywhere, Regenerate as a Power Action. The General should be pretty badass, too.

AlgertMan

09/22/2004, 15:07

let's say i have Auto-Regen

and i have a team full of people with regen

can they all use the same card?

ultimatecap

09/22/2004, 15:08

Am I reading that correctly? Do you suffer a -1 to hit with Haymaker?

Puuka

09/22/2004, 15:09

The way white noise is worded, you can make your opponent roll to see if he affects his own figures with perplex as well and for each perplex

megakilroy

09/22/2004, 15:13

Originally posted by AlgertMan
let's say i have Auto-Regen

and i have a team full of people with regen

can they all use the same card?

I believe since it says "Choose a character", you have to assign each character you want to be able to use this feat at the beginning of the game and add 12 to each of their point costs. Similar to the Trick Shot feat.

megakilroy

09/22/2004, 15:15

Originally posted by AlgertMan

let's say i have Auto-Regen

and i have a team full of people with regen

can they all use the same card?

But I think you only need one card for your team, you just have to assign points to each figure who gets the option to use the feat.

swinte

09/22/2004, 15:19

Some of these card wordings leave a bit to be desired. I'm assuming a FAQ will be coming out soon after the set's release to clarify.

New Warrior

09/22/2004, 15:22

Warzone works well with xorn and decently with the rest but really screws over Jane Foster...Horray!

Bluebeard

09/22/2004, 15:24

I'm VERY happy with todays preview. I was gonna be one of those players who would always be playing Ordinary Day, but now I've gotta choose between War Zone and White Noise... Also, looks like CT is still gonna be retired! Goodbye Invisible Girl! =)

ultimatecap

09/22/2004, 15:27

Hey, where's the cost on White Noise and War Zone?????

Whiz Fan

09/22/2004, 15:27

I just might start using Judge Death again.

wonderboy

09/22/2004, 15:31

Originally posted by Bluebeard
Also, looks like CT is still gonna be retired! Goodbye Invisible Girl! =)

What makes you say this? There wasn't anything posted about CT being retired.

ultimatecap

09/22/2004, 15:35

Ooops, my bad, White Noise and War Zone are Battlefield Conditions.

MSU

09/22/2004, 15:41

This is my ignorange, but who is Flash Thompson? I know Gwen Stacy is a Spiderman gal, but who is Flash?

megakilroy

09/22/2004, 15:42

Originally posted by wonderboy8917
What makes you say this? There wasn't anything posted about CT being retired.

Ditto. Where is this "news" that you speak of posted, Mr. Bluebeard?

Miraclo

09/22/2004, 15:42

No complaints on the cards so far, while the bystanders, to date, appear to be immediately forgettable. I'm presuming Parisian Hooker Makeup Action Gwen Stacy and Demented Microcephalic Flash Thompson are from the Utimate Spidey line?

megakilroy

09/22/2004, 15:44

Originally posted by MSU
This is my ignorange, but who is Flash Thompson? I know Gwen Stacy is a Spiderman gal, but who is Flash?

Flash Thompson is the school bully from Spider-man. If you've seen the first movie, it is the guy who gets the cafeteria tray dumped on him and then promptly gets beat up by Peter Parker. Unless I'm thinking of someone else...

rouge2

09/22/2004, 15:47

Originally posted by stormfang1502
You should probably check out the original announcement about Battlefield Conditions.

All players must agree to their use. If one person doesnt agree then they can not be used.

It has been ruled that in tournament play use of Battlefield conditions will be up to the judge, not the players, just like the 3D Objects. Casual play is still the domain of both (all) players.

MSU

09/22/2004, 15:58

Originally posted by megakilroy
Flash Thompson is the school bully from Spider-man. If you've seen the first movie, it is the guy who gets the cafeteria tray dumped on him and then promptly gets beat up by Peter Parker. Unless I'm thinking of someone else...

Thanks!

Sriad

09/22/2004, 15:58

Very cool indeed.

My favorite is Auto-regen; that's how regen should be IMHO and now at the low cost of 12 points per figure, it is! And since it's a free action, you can push to run away and then spend the next turn or two regenerating!

Other figures who'd benifit from this:
Despero (only 2 clicks of regen, but every little thing that makes Despero better... ;) )
V Shade (3 clicks of auto regen and mystics...very cool.)
SILVER SURFER
And I have no doubt at all that I'll be playing Deadpool with it. :cool:

Sriad

09/22/2004, 16:03

PS. Some people find bystander tokens very forgettable, but they're cool for these reasons:
1: Can get 2-5 point fillers without buying the maps.
2: They're imporant people to the Marvel U. who would never be represented in Clix form.
3: FLASH THOMPSON VS R. MOLEOID! GRUDGE MATCH OF THE CENTURY!!!

But it would be cool in the next sets to have 5-15 point bystanders with a TA or one power.

hair10

09/22/2004, 16:25

Well, WK once again listened to all the whiners and cry babies and finally nerfed support, perplex, and outwit. :(

Sink74

09/22/2004, 16:31

Originally posted by hair10
Well, WK once again listened to all the whiners and cry babies and finally nerfed support, perplex, and outwit. :(

You say that like it's a bad thing. Personally, having hookers and EMTs as focal points of a superhero game just didn't sit square with me. Note that you can always use Ordinary Day and keep your Perplexing, Outwitting, and Supporting.

deathsythe

09/22/2004, 16:35

I just want to see if I get this straight. Say I have Auto Regen and I have too characters with regen. Could I use it one turn on one of them and on the other turn on the other one. Or when I attach it to one charcter it stays with that charcter throughout the game and is it the same thing with Haymaker?

Ignatz_Mouse

09/22/2004, 16:38

Originally posted by hair10
Well, WK once again listened to all the whiners and cry babies and finally nerfed support, perplex, and outwit. :(

No, they listened to people who were willing to shake up the staus quo and attempt to make a good game even better.

I wonder if the people who wanted air conditioning and automatic transmissions and electric starters in cars were whiners and crybabies too?

Miraclo

09/22/2004, 16:41

Originally posted by Sriad
PS. Some people find bystander tokens very forgettable, but they're cool for these reasons:
1: Can get 2-5 point fillers without buying the maps.
2: They're imporant people to the Marvel U. who would never be represented in Clix form.
3: FLASH THOMPSON VS R. MOLEOID! GRUDGE MATCH OF THE CENTURY!!!

But it would be cool in the next sets to have 5-15 point bystanders with a TA or one power.

It was my problem based on #2 (how appropriate!) that I was making my comments. I don't care one bit about anything from the Ultimates line at Marvel, though, of course, there's not too much stopping me from just pretending they're not the version's they're supposed to be, much as I've done with the U-clix from the Ultimates set. The Flash shown here, though, looks like a mad scientist's mad & brain-damaged assistant, and Gwen looks as if she charges $200/hr.

Miraclo

09/22/2004, 16:44

Originally posted by deathsythe
I just want to see if I get this straight. Say I have Auto Regen and I have too characters with regen. Could I use it one turn on one of them and on the other turn on the other one. Or when I attach it to one charcter it stays with that charcter throughout the game and is it the same thing with Haymaker?

I'll be curious as to the formal FAQ for this, too. My reading of it, right or wrong, had me presuming that the "choose a character" meant that that card would apply only to a single character on one's team for that game, unlike Rip It Up, which applies to anyone on the team with Super Strength showing on the dial at that time.

cthoaa

09/22/2004, 17:02

Originally posted by Miraclo
No complaints on the cards so far, while the bystanders, to date, appear to be immediately forgettable. I'm presuming Parisian Hooker Makeup Action Gwen Stacy and Demented Microcephalic Flash Thompson are from the Utimate Spidey line?

Not sure about Flash, but the Gwen pic comes from Spider-Man:Blue (Tim Sale).

ludd_gang

09/22/2004, 17:38

Is the Haymaker click damage cumulative with normal push damage. That is, if I push to Haymaker do I take 2 damage.

BTW, Hulk doesn't mind pushing.:)

Sink74

09/22/2004, 18:42

Originally posted by ludd_gang
Is the Haymaker click damage cumulative with normal push damage. That is, if I push to Haymaker do I take 2 damage.

BTW, Hulk doesn't mind pushing.:)

Yup. Sounds like a good way to get Logan, Ultimate Wolverine, and Ultimate Sabertooth onto their Flurry clix.

K-Ness

09/22/2004, 18:49

Originally posted by hair10
Well, WK once again listened to all the whiners and cry babies and finally nerfed support, perplex, and outwit. :(

Actually, this helps shake things up because it prevents players from using the same old tired tactics that win them tourney after tourney. I think it's a great idea to try to keep things fresh and invigorating. Think of it this way... it's not a re-write of the rules, and you can always say no to using Battlefield Conditions.

Wolverine_Hulk

09/22/2004, 18:53

If a Giant figure has earth bound does he become a "normal" figure

Makaveli

09/22/2004, 19:03

Blasphemy! Give me the NFL over college ball any day, but to each his/her own. As for the bystander tokens I like them because I enjoy sticking to themed teams. I play the game because I love comics and if I can throw Flash out there and watch him get killed, all the more joy for me.

Originally posted by Sink74
They're not messing with anyone's football. All the good football is played on Saturday...

webhead817

09/22/2004, 20:13

So...I'm looking for patterns...the REV figs have the primary colors in their rings, Yellow, Blue, Red...and it looks like the newer game elements have the secondary colors, Green, Orange, Purple...very cool.

Batman1983

09/22/2004, 20:45

If Haymaker is continuous it'll definitely make any Hulk playable. I think its best use could be for KC Superman. On a natural push you could get Superman to his 3rd click from his first & deal at least 7 damage doing it. Just make sure you're charging someone/where thats not going to leave you vulnerable to counter attack. Now KC Superman could be his own 300 point team w/ Haymaker, Rip It up (or Trick Shot), & a White Noise.

ludd_gang

09/22/2004, 21:04

On Haymaker, what does the "damage symbol/two guys standing +2 "mean? I thought the 2 guys were the gigantic symbol?

Dominion

09/22/2004, 21:11

The "2 guys standing" symbol is the damage symbol for Giant figs. The "pow" is the one for normal-sized figs, and the fist is the one for actual bigfigs like the Sentinel.

webhead817

09/22/2004, 21:17

To clarify...the fist that looks like it's smashing the ground (not shown on the card) is for big figs...the fist shown on the card is the attack value symbol.

supermangl1

09/22/2004, 21:19

Ok I'm still trying to figure out exactly how Haymaker could work.

Example: Wrecker using haymaker

Base damage of 2, plus CCE = 4 in close combat.
Add haymaker during close combat and he deals 6 damage and takes a push click?

Since the cards supercede the regular rules is this a correct understanding?

VandalSavage

09/22/2004, 21:37

I must be missing something on the Regeneration card..Am I correct in thinking all it does is allow the character to make the Regen roll without counting as one of your total actions?? Does it do anything else??

Mr. Savage

ohoni

09/22/2004, 21:43

Isn't Deadpool supposed to be in this set? If so, I know where I'm keeping my auto-regen card.

Also, that Haymaker ability? Think Absorbing Man. Great starting AV, low starting DV. You have him start with a haymaker, which would push him into his power phase. ALL "push click" characters could use this tactic (although many would whiff the attack).

My guess on the ruling is that you can only use this once, on a character that you assign at the begining of the match, and that it counts as a regular action (although I think it would deal push damage with only one token, not two, and that if you pushed to use this ability you'd take two damage).

You'd apply the 10 points as if it was a character of its own, and like Fastball, this would likely be discarded after it's used, with you banking the points. If you want it on all your characters, you'll likely need to have multiple copies.

"Base damage of 2, plus CCE = 4 in close combat.
Add haymaker during close combat and he deals 6 damage and takes a push click?"

This says "give the character a close combat action", doesn't CCE count as a "power action" or something? I think Haymaker basically counts as a new power on the character using it, so I doubt most powers stack with it. Yay for the characters with high AVs and solid base damage.

Now, if you don't have to declare the recipient at the start of the battle you could always "play" this card with they stuff your RCE characters.

"Oh no, you've based my Bullseye! Whatever will I- Oh wait, BAM three damage with a ten to hit"

Not always the best move, but I bet it could come in handy.

"Warzone works well with xorn and decently with the rest but really screws over Jane Foster...Horray!"

It really only helps Xorn. Everybody else only deals 1-2 damage on healing clicks, and while sometimes a guaranteed 2 clicks of healing is worth taking an action and possibly missing on the target, but 1 is the minimum anyways, so most medics would gain nothing anyways (including Beast).

supermangl1

09/22/2004, 21:44

I don't think it does anything else, basically someone could regenerate and then attack someone in the same turn. I think thats rather cool.

ohoni

09/22/2004, 21:48

"I must be missing something on the Regeneration card..Am I correct in thinking all it does is allow the character to make the Regen roll without counting as one of your total actions?? Does it do anything else??"

It's a Free Action. This means it's not one of your total team actions AND it's not one of HIS actions. This means that if Wolverine drops to his last click, at the begining of your turn he automatically rolls, gets a 3, gains one click of life. You can then do anything you want with him, let's say you attack. You survive to the next turn, you automatically get to roll again, you gain 3 more clicks, and again you can attack, or clear.

Very handy for regen characters, and deffinitely how the power should have always worked (at least for most characters, some DO need to actually stop moving to heal themselves).

daedalus25

09/22/2004, 21:55

Originally posted by supermangl1
Ok I'm still trying to figure out exactly how Haymaker could work.

Example: Wrecker using haymaker

Base damage of 2, plus CCE = 4 in close combat.
Add haymaker during close combat and he deals 6 damage and takes a push click?

Since the cards supercede the regular rules is this a correct understanding?

You can't combine the two. If you use CCE you've already assigned a power action. Haymaker requires that you assign a Close Combat Action. You'll have to choose one or the other.

TheLion

09/22/2004, 21:55

Originally posted by hair10
Well, WK once again listened to all the whiners and cry babies and finally nerfed support, perplex, and outwit. :(

Why... did someone tear up your "Ordinary Day" card?

Gacy's Clown

09/22/2004, 22:12

I'm lovin' White Noise and War Zone!!!

hair10

09/22/2004, 22:19

My original statement...
Originally posted by hair10
Well, WK once again listened to all the whiners and cry babies and finally nerfed support, perplex, and outwit. :(
Replied to in the following ways...

You say that like it's a bad thing.
It is. I'm becoming rather annoyed at the "squeeky wheel gets the grease" mentality. These changes keep coming because the minority yell, #####, and scream about it. People who are happy with things have no reason to say anything... therefore, those squeeky wheels keep getting what they want.

I wonder if the people who wanted air conditioning and automatic transmissions and electric starters in cars were whiners and crybabies too?
Well, being that I drive a Z28 with T-tops I'd have to say "yes" to the automatic transmissions and air conditioning.

Actually, this helps shake things up because it prevents players from using the same old tired tactics that win them tourney after tourney.
It won't be long before there is new tired tactics that win tourney after tourney.

Why... did someone tear up your "Ordinary Day" card?
Interesting that this was brought up. When I first saw Ordinary Day, I mentioned something about house ruling it. I mean, how boooorrriiinnnnggg. Now I see that it is going to have to remain a necessary evil.

Figs with Outwit and Perplex have those powers figured into their point values. They didn't have those powers working only 50% of the time figured into their point values. And since Battlefield Conditions cost nothing from your build total to play it, it screws up the costing of the figs who have those powers.

army_22

09/22/2004, 22:30

I haven't read boneyards list yet, so I don;t know if I'm just spinning my wheels, but..

Shocker is on the white noise card, doesn't that give the impression that he's a new Spidey enemy in MM?

Batman1983

09/22/2004, 22:45

If Shocker is in the set (& lets hope) I can see him as a decent cross between Boomerang & Blizzard... Triple EE followed by PW on the Vet would be nice. Doubt he'd see RS, but maybe one of the versions will have front loaded PW.

firstfederal

09/22/2004, 22:52

I was reading that for the feat cards, that you would have to pay points for each piece that uses the card. So, for example with Trick Shot, is that plus twenty for Bullseye, Firelord & KC Superman? Maybe Iron Man and SHIELD sniper would pay half for half of the dial?

Was this statement wrong, or just completely unmanageable?

Ed0825

09/22/2004, 23:01

Originally posted by VandalSavage
I must be missing something on the Regeneration card..Am I correct in thinking all it does is allow the character to make the Regen roll without counting as one of your total actions?? Does it do anything else??

Mr. Savage

Its a bit more. Not only does the regeneration not take one of your actions, but the figure does not even get a token from my understanding for regenerating. This is a Free Action like Outwit or Perplex. So you can regen and then hit in the same action if you want. Or lets say you push for an attack, you take your click of damage for the push and land on regen. You can regen right away and get up to 4 clicks back.

WakandaMan

09/23/2004, 00:06

I just went and checked the wording on Fastball Special, and it explicitly states that it is removed from play after one use. I guess that means that Haymaker can be used over and over and over again..Yay! Sounds like fun!

WakandaMan

09/23/2004, 00:12

hair10- I like the way that you assume that only the vocal minority doesn't like the prevalence of Support, Outwit and Perplex in the game. At least Brazil tries to conduct a poll first to form a rough consensus of whether his views are in the majority or not... :confused: :ermm:

Anyway, I think these are all great. Well except for bystanders....Franklin Richards deserves the F4 TA and PC! If they made them unique, then they wouldn't be abusable, but instead they let us play as many multiples as we want, but with no reason to. :(

Oh well...loving the Battlefield conditions so far! Good job on those Wizkids! Auto-regen is very cool too! Wolverine will be the beast he's meant to be! :eek:

I Am The Game

09/23/2004, 00:17

Originally posted by Batman1983
If Shocker is in the set (& lets hope) I can see him as a decent cross between Boomerang & Blizzard... Triple EE followed by PW on the Vet would be nice. Doubt he'd see RS, but maybe one of the versions will have front loaded PW.

Triple EE and PW? Who are you talking about?! Mr. Schultz should be praying for an AV over 8! :p He doesn't have the ability to cause widespread damage like that, he has enough trouble hitting one person with a shock.

I'm liking the battlefield cards very much, the bystanders less, and the feat cards not at all.

Battlefield cards are a handy-dandy way to drum up a scenario for those judges who aren't used to creating them. I didn't need them, but at least they'll make other venues less boring to play at! :classic: I'm not letting players decide which card to use, I'll be pulling one or two at random, and let my guys play around it. Gotta go with War Zone as my favorite. Start using those AIM and Checkmate Medics again, folks.

As far as the bystanders, Ultimate garbage ruins the day again! In the regular universe, Flash was an accomplished Boxer, even when he was young. His token has an AV of 7, the same as the Bus Driver and the Deli Guy! Meanwhile, I still don't know why Franklin isn't part of the Fantastic Four...!

Nothing wrong with the idea behind feat cards, Automatic Regenerate is sweet. Trick Shot's gonna be abused to death, though, and it'll ruin the whole fun around 'em.

TayJK

09/23/2004, 00:33

I just had a crazy idea of what one of the Bystanders might be, although I'm not sure how many people will get it: Hot Dog Vendor.

kwsazul

09/23/2004, 01:10

RavenProject

09/23/2004, 01:28

Originally posted by TayJK
I just had a crazy idea of what one of the Bystanders might be, although I'm not sure how many people will get it: Hot Dog Vendor.

Not "Old Man at Crossing?"

Or "Man Dodging Debris?"

Or "Security Guard?"

Or "Jury Foreman?" :)

-J

yitjuan

09/23/2004, 03:56

Originally posted by kwsazul
I think I heard an argument similar to this before....
:noid: :confused: ;) :p
nice smileys ;)
Why does evryone think that you can assign the same feat card to multiple figs. One fig per card (or in the case of fastball special two) For 20 pts Rip It Up would be the most broken thing in the game if it gave EVERYONE of your characters with SS +1 to damage after movement action, or for every charge, HSS attack, or ranged SS attack. It would be like some kind of Mega-Omnipresent hooker who could perplex anywhere on the board.
erm ... Rip It Up does JUST what you said ...
I am a fan of the Bat family, and since WK decided to beat stealth dead with a stick then push it off of a cliff, the only thing Bats and friends had left going for them was Outwit, now that gets a jab too! Woo Hoo!!! Go theme teams!!??
read next reply ...

Originally posted by hair10
Figs with Outwit and Perplex have those powers figured into their point values. They didn't have those powers working only 50% of the time figured into their point values. And since Battlefield Conditions cost nothing from your build total to play it, it screws up the costing of the figs who have those powers.
I think that's when Set Retirement comes in. Then all of the miscosted figures will be recosted ...

Ignatz_Mouse

09/23/2004, 06:16

Hair10--

You missed my point-- you're assuming anybody who wants change is a crybaby or whiner. I'm an advocate for change, but I can tell you right now that I can exploit the current rules as well as anybody, and I have the LEs to prove it. That doesn't mean I can't see ways to improve the game.

Oh, and air-conditioning and AC for the luxury vehicles, then. :)

See you Sunday!

Thunderbolts

09/23/2004, 07:24

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 07:45

Miraclo

09/23/2004, 09:13

Originally posted by kwsazul
Why does evryone think that you can assign the same feat card to multiple figs. One fig per card (or in the case of fastball special two) For 20 pts Rip It Up would be the most broken thing in the game if it gave EVERYONE of your characters with SS +1 to damage after movement action, or for every charge, HSS attack, or ranged SS attack. It would be like some kind of Mega-Omnipresent hooker who could perplex anywhere on the board.

As others have mentioned, however, this is how the Rip It Up card is described as working, and I'm very pleased with it.

I disagree that it is in the least "broken" as it simply gives the super strength characters something they should have had all along. How many panels of super-powered comics action does one usually get before at least one of the characters is grabbing a chunk of something to wallop his opponent with?

I anticipate that 20 pts will simply become part of many people's team build if they have much in the way of Super Strength showing. If it's not important enough to their team makeup and strategy they're free to use those 20 points on a low-end character of some other Feat.

Similarly, I'm hoping both Pounce and Catch A Ride have the same, broad application, (though I'm hoping there'll be some reduction of movement to balance it out) as these are things that the characters with these powers should have had open to them all along.

If Rip It Up is FAQed into applying only to a single character in each team, I'll be disappointed, and I'm sure that such limitations would be ignored under most house rules.

Miraclo

09/23/2004, 09:29

Originally posted by hair10
Figs with Outwit and Perplex have those powers figured into their point values. They didn't have those powers working only 50% of the time figured into their point values. And since Battlefield Conditions cost nothing from your build total to play it, it screws up the costing of the figs who have those powers.

I understand the nature of the complaint, but some of this reminds me of the complaints heard all the time that Impervious and Invulnerability frequently end up being wasted points because there's so much Outwit around. Granted, the players with Outwit have to pay for that power, but depending upon what team they're up against the cost of that Outwit could be a <i>tremendous</i> bargain, as when it allows a superhuman powerhouse to be taken down by figures who normally shouldn't be able to have a chance at doing him any harm, who are riding on the coat tails of the one or two team members who have Outwit.

Personally, I suspect that Battlefield Conditions will be the most fun if they're played randomly - shuffle a deck and choose one. Whether each person does that - and then the one who pulls an Ordinary Day (in a game with 3 or more players) decides which other Effect it cancels - or it's a single card draw from a common pile - that should quell nearly all complaints as it won't give a team-builder advance knowledge of what he'll be facing. Things could really be shaken up if a random card was drawn for each round - the previous Effect being displaced.

I continue to look forward to these additions to the game.

hair10

09/23/2004, 09:38

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
I'm an advocate for change, but I can tell you right now that I can exploit the current rules as well as anybody, and I have the LEs to prove it.
Having the LEs doesn't really tell me anything... I rarely exploit the rules and I've got all the LEs. ;)

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 09:46

Originally posted by hair10
Having the LEs doesn't really tell me anything... I rarely exploit the rules and I've got all the LEs. ;) Nice refutation of the dependent variable! :p

Exploit the rules ----> have all the LEs

incorrect contrapositive: have all the LEs -----> exploit the rules (can't just flip the conditional)

the contrapositive:

do not have all the LEs ----> do not exploit the rules

Sorry, preparing for the LSAT . . .

shin-goji

09/23/2004, 09:51

Originally posted by 4est
Woohoo Xorn has a use with War Zone. Auto Regen sounds nice for big bruisers with Regen like General and Despero.
If you can't find a use for Xorn, then maybe you should stick to playing with AIM Agents.

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 09:53

Originally posted by shin-goji
If you can't find a use for Xorn, then maybe you should stick to playing with AIM Agents. Yeah, I don't get why some think Xorn is useless. Support with 10 attack, TK, damage value 4, X-Men TA, I know I could find a few uses for him, even at 90 something points.

TayJK

09/23/2004, 09:59

Originally posted by RavenProject
Not "Old Man at Crossing?"

Or "Man Dodging Debris?"

Or "Security Guard?"

Or "Jury Foreman?" :)

-J
:)
Reason for Hot Dog Vendor is that I read on imdb that, if a director doesn't have a specific role planned for him, that he wants to be a Hot Dog Vendor. I think it has something to do with a cameo he made in an old Spidey comic.

Oh, and when was he a Jury Foreman?

I wonder how many people besides me and RP know what I'm talking about... :grin:

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 10:01

Originally posted by TayJK
:)
Reason for Hot Dog Vendor is that I read on imdb that, if a director doesn't have a specific role planned for him, that he wants to be a Hot Dog Vendor. I think it has something to do with a cameo he made in an old Spidey comic.

Oh, and when was he a Jury Foreman?

I wonder how many people besides me and RP know what I'm talking about... :grin:
I do!

Excelsior!

Glen Quagmire

09/23/2004, 10:03

Automatic Regeneration question ...

Okay, you use the card's ability, but you get the cruddy 1 or 2 roll. You still have the option of using Regen as your regular action, right? :grin:

SimonMoon5

09/23/2004, 10:14

Originally posted by ohoni
Also, that Haymaker ability?

ALL "push click" characters could use this tactic (although many would whiff the attack).

Hmmm, probably wouldn't work well with Con Artists though (even if it would be funny). And I imagine that even Haymaker wouldn't make Ororo Munroe worth playing.

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 10:14

Originally posted by Glen Quagmire
Automatic Regeneration question ...

Okay, you use the card's ability, but you get the cruddy 1 or 2 roll. You still have the option of using Regen as your regular action, right? :grin: I think using it as a free action precludes using it again later in the round.

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 10:17

Originally posted by SimonMoon5
Hmmm, probably wouldn't work well with Con Artists though (even if it would be funny). And I imagine that even Haymaker wouldn't make Ororo Munroe worth playing. OHHHH, I like this! This is now officially the "SHAZAM!" feat!

RavenProject

09/23/2004, 10:30

Oh, and when was he a Jury Foreman?

"The Trial of the Incredible Hulk."

Which was actually better than most people give it credit for.

-J

Glen Quagmire

09/23/2004, 10:37

Originally posted by Gentlegamer, regarding Automatic Regen:
I think using it as a free action precludes using it again later in the round.

Argh ...

Well, maybe we'll get a FAQ on this one. Could be a real boon for The General, who has several clicks of Regen.

Gentlegamer

09/23/2004, 11:41

Originally posted by Glen Quagmire
Argh ...

Well, maybe we'll get a FAQ on this one. Could be a real boon for The General, who has several clicks of Regen. Even if you fail to regen, it is a free action, so you don't have to push or use up an allotted action. Sounds rather powerful to me (and identical to my house rule)!

lantern314

09/23/2004, 11:59

OK, this is completely childish, but when I was scrolling past Gwen's card, the Mutant Mayhem logo and her collector number, looked like the word My and a female anatomic reference.

Ozymandas

09/23/2004, 12:12

Gwen Stacy: My Boo*s. Yes, that IS completely childish (that's OK, I thought it was funny, too!).

Just nit-picking, but I wish they could have gone w/ just one artist for these cards. I'm fine w/ Bagley, Romita Jr, Sale, Jiminez & the rest but if they used 1 artist, at least per character's "mini-verse", or one for feats, pogs, etc..., they'd all have a more unified look to them.

Shenanigans In

09/23/2004, 14:13

I got it.

and that isn't Ultimate Gwen Stacey.

dj_sha

09/23/2004, 16:37

The art is a little odd. I even own most of the comics this art appears in. Couldn't Wizkids find ANY artists that would be willing to do some stuff for the feats, bystanders, and battlefields?

Lex Luthor Jr

09/23/2004, 17:09

Originally posted by dj_sha
The art is a little odd. I even own most of the comics this art appears in. Couldn't Wizkids find ANY artists that would be willing to do some stuff for the feats, bystanders, and battlefields?

Not without paying them. WizKids must have decided o save a few bucks by just using some pick-up art rather than hiring artists to do some original artwork.

After all, talented artists are few and far between. They can charge an arm and a leg for their talent because no one else can do it.

jiggle_billy

09/23/2004, 17:56

the picture of gwen is from spider-man blue

jiggle_billy

09/23/2004, 18:00

by jeph loeb and tim sale

Ignatz_Mouse

09/23/2004, 18:12

Originally posted by hair10
Having the LEs doesn't really tell me anything... I rarely exploit the rules and I've got all the LEs. ;)

I don't tend to.... but I can. And I'm certainly not a whiner or crybaby.

Whining would be like "they keep changing the game.... wahhhh!" ;)

GMSLegion

09/23/2004, 18:48

Originally posted by ohoni
"Warzone works well with xorn and decently with the rest but really screws over Jane Foster...Horray!"

It really only helps Xorn. Everybody else only deals 1-2 damage on healing clicks, and while sometimes a guaranteed 2 clicks of healing is worth taking an action and possibly missing on the target, but 1 is the minimum anyways, so most medics would gain nothing anyways (including Beast).

I like the other side of the equation, when you're playing against someone who fields three medics on a 400 point team. I'd rather nerf the fellow who constantly heals his own people for 5-6 than worry about healing my own people.

hair10

09/23/2004, 18:50

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
Whining would be like "they keep changing the game.... wahhhh!" ;)
Nope, whining would be like "Outwit and Perplex is too powerful, it needs to be rolled for".

'nuff said.

GMSLegion

09/23/2004, 19:15

I rather hope that my local judges ask that players bring three different cards to the tourneys - one for each round! That should limit people spoiling all the fun with an Ordinary Day card.

Sink74

09/23/2004, 19:44

Originally posted by hair10
It is. I'm becoming rather annoyed at the "squeeky wheel gets the grease" mentality. These changes keep coming because the minority yell, #####, and scream about it. People who are happy with things have no reason to say anything... therefore, those squeeky wheels keep getting what they want.

If the squeaky wheel got the grease, Firelord would have been retired in a few days, not a few years. WK waited for the game to develop and strategies to emerge before acting on Outwit and Perplex. The fact is that 27 point Outwit Chump[TM] shouldn't be able to look at the 265 point Ulterior Motive Man[TM] and render said figure defenseless. Not without a roll, without using an action, and able to use every turn.

Personally, I'm glad WK found a way to balance things out a bit without changing the rules or banning some figs. Two of the best things about this game are the relatively simple rules and the compatibility of the peices.

daedalus25

09/23/2004, 20:08

Originally posted by Gentlegamer
Nice refutation of the dependent variable! :p

Exploit the rules ----> have all the LEs

incorrect contrapositive: have all the LEs -----> exploit the rules (can't just flip the conditional)

the contrapositive:

do not have all the LEs ----> do not exploit the rules

Sorry, preparing for the LSAT . . .

Heh, well to help you out, the contrapositive doesn't negate the original conditional statement. The correct negation would be Exploit the rules AND do not have all the LEs.

Just don't ask me to show you the truth table. I don't want to appear THAT geeky. ;)

Now um... where were we? Ah yes, I'm still holding my breath until November.

warden

09/24/2004, 07:45

Originally posted by dj_sha
The art is a little odd. I even own most of the comics this art appears in. Couldn't Wizkids find ANY artists that would be willing to do some stuff for the feats, bystanders, and battlefields? I like the art which seems to be of a high standard. I gave the Vs game a try but the art for that comic-book game is poor by comparison.

Andrew

Miraclo

09/24/2004, 08:42

Originally posted by jiggle_billy
the picture of gwen is from spider-man blue
by jeph loeb and tim sale

Thanks to you and the others for citing the source. I have to say it makes me feel even better that I'd decided not to bother with that miniseries.

Ignatz_Mouse

09/24/2004, 09:01

Originally posted by hair10
Nope, whining would be like "Outwit and Perplex is too powerful, it needs to be rolled for".

'nuff said.

Wsell, thet wouldn't be me, even though I advocate change. You, on the other hand,m have been whining. For instance-- who brought this up?

My advice-- adapt.

kyrinthic

09/24/2004, 10:13

why is it when people say 'nuff said' its ainvariably following an aweful arguement that just begs to be refuted, even by people that dont care about the argument?

-Kyrinthic

Wolverine_Hulk

09/24/2004, 14:21

comic book refrence

hair10

09/24/2004, 15:15

Originally posted by Sink74
The fact is that 27 point Outwit Chump[TM] shouldn't be able to look at the 265 point Ulterior Motive Man[TM] and render said figure defenseless. Not without a roll, without using an action, and able to use every turn.
Man... I can't believe I still have to say this....

For all those who haven't figured out how to deal with a 27 point fig with one click of Outwit yet... maybe you should find another game to play. Sheeessshhh...

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
My advice-- adapt.
I always do. That doesn't mean I (or anyone else for that matter) can't or shouldn't raise a concern or voice an opinion. Everyone else always does. That's how we end up with this carp in the first place.

Originally posted by kyrinthic
why is it when people say 'nuff said' its ainvariably following an aweful arguement that just begs to be refuted, even by people that dont care about the argument?
It's just fun to say!

'nuff said! :p

Batman1983

09/25/2004, 00:04

'nuff said!

yeah that was kinda fun typing that... In a "I'm using one hand to type because the other is in Carpal Tunnel agony" way. :disappoin

shadow_cat55

09/25/2004, 01:24

Ya it's definitely not Ultimate Gwen. If it was her she'd have BCF! Man I'm funny...
ShadowCat

Lex Luthor Jr

09/25/2004, 01:34

Originally posted by hair10
That doesn't mean I (or anyone else for that matter) can't or shouldn't raise a concern or voice an opinion. Everyone else always does. That's how we end up with this carp in the first place.

I find it amusing that when you share how you feel on an issue it's "raising a concern and voicing an opinion." But whenever anyone shares an opinion that you don't agree with, it's "whining".

jiggle_billy

09/25/2004, 01:48

Originally posted by Miraclo
Thanks to you and the others for citing the source. I have to say it makes me feel even better that I'd decided not to bother with that miniseries.

spider-man blue is an excellent story, the art is great too.
you should really read it and not judge the mini-series from one panel of art alone. Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale make a great team. Some of their other works include (Batman: Long Halloween, Superman for all seasons, daredevil Yellow, and a few more) all great mini's :p

hair10

09/25/2004, 09:13

Originally posted by Lex Luthor Jr
I find it amusing that when you share how you feel on an issue it's "raising a concern and voicing an opinion." But whenever anyone shares an opinion that you don't agree with, it's "whining".
Well you haven't seen me start twelve differenet threads on this, have you?

Ignatz_Mouse

09/25/2004, 11:37

Originally posted by hair10
Man... I can't believe I still have to say this....

For all those who haven't figured out how to deal with a 27 point fig with one click of Outwit yet... maybe you should find another game to play. Sheeessshhh...

...and...

I can't believe I still have to say THIS:

I know how to deal with outwitters of all varieties. That you think game-change advocacy all stems from inability shows a remarkable ability to miss somebody else's point of view.

Go look up "solipsism."

ANd no, you haven't started 12 threads, but you brought the dicussion up in this one.

hair10

09/26/2004, 22:10

Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
...and...

I can't believe I still have to say THIS:

I know how to deal with outwitters of all varieties. That you think game-change advocacy all stems from inability shows a remarkable ability to miss somebody else's point of view.

Go look up "solipsism."

solipsism - a theory holding that the self can know nothing but its own modifications and that the self is the only existent thing

In other words, I think therefore I am... but I don't know about the rest of you guys. ;)

Well, this self has made modifications. It seems that WK needs to do it for other people (that is, assuming you all exist of course :p).