HeroClix A to Z – Legacy Marquee Primer: Part 3 – Cards

[AZS]

Another set means another “Marquee Primer” review!

WizKids posted the entire set last week, although we’ve had a little more time than that to look over the new cards.
Some lucky players were fortunate enough to get their hands on Legacy over the weekend at the Pre-release tournament. For the rest, the Marquee is still several weeks away, but that just means we have time to look things over in detail before the tournament.

This review is being posted in 4 parts:
Part 1 – Commons
Part 2 – Rares & Uniques
Part 3 – Cards
Part 4 – Super Rares

Today’s review looks at the Cards. The new 5th item you get in a booster. These are supposed to have equal rarity, so you’re just as likely to get something you want as you are to get something you can’t possibly use.


click on comments below to read the review.

[AZS]

Feats, Battlefield Conditions, and Bystander tokens


It used to be that the common ‘fodder’ type generic figures were the ones that you would use to fill out a team in a sealed tournament. But now that the ‘common’ rarity figures are starting to include heavy hitters like Power Girl and Hourman, and the only ‘cheap’ figure in the set is Spoiler, it falls to the tokens and Feat cards to round out your team.

Keep in mind though that you will only get 1 card per booster (and don’t toss out the box with your card still inside!), so the likelihood of getting exactly the card you want for a specific character is pretty unlikely. Still, that doesn’t mean that you can’t use some of these cards with a lot of different figures, and pulling the right Feat or Battlefield Condition can help make a mediocre pull into a great team.

**NOTE** all of these cards are new, and many questions surrounding them have yet to be FAQ’d or even answered. So I am interpreting the cards as best I can, having reviewed the information I could find online, and I apologize in advance if I make a mistake. But I’m sure people will be quick to correct me if I did.


Feat Cards


Armor Piercing
Cost – 10
Prerequisites – None
This is possibly the most universally useful feat to date. Along with being so cheap, just about anyone who pulls this card will likely play it, and get good use out of it.
Even so, there are some figures who will benefit from this card more than others. Big guns like Ultraman and Mongul don’t exactly need this feat, they’re already hitting for 5 damage. Green Lantern could still use this though; When you use GL with multiple targets and split his starting damage 3 / 1, that 1 can still hurt a Tough or Impervious figure.
However, this Feat is probably best used on figures with lower damage so that it can pierce defenses. Great candidates for this feat are: Impulse, Talia and Ra’s al Ghul, Hush, and any figure that may start strong, but has a quick drop off in damage.

Damage Shield
Cost – 10
Prerequisites - Close Combat Expert, Combat Reflexes, Energy Shield/Deflection, Flurry, Hypersonic Speed, Impervious, Invulnerability, or Poison.
This Feat is somewhat tricky to use. It has a ton of prerequisites, so you would think that a lot of figures could use it, but some of the figures who can, won’t get a lot of use out of it because they’re not likely to get attacked in close combat. Other figures only have the prerequisites on a couple of clicks, like Power Girl who has just a few clicks of CCE.

Good candidates for this feat include: Impulse/Kid Flash (he can use it for his entire dial!) Spoiler, she can make a good tie up piece against a low point opposing figure and deal retaliatory damage. Major Force can also use the feat for his entire dial, and is more than likely to end up in close combat as well.
When putting your characters into close combat, keep in mind who can target them with a ranged attack (not affected by Damage Shield) and position them out of the Line of Sight.


Note – This may be changed later, but as the feat is currently written, a character does not need to actually take damage from an attack, they just need to be the target of a “successful” close combat attack. That means if you make a successful Impervious roll and reduce the damage from an attack to 0, it was still technically a “successful” attack and the attacker will take the retaliatory damage.
Note #2 – This Feat only says it deals 1 click of damage back. It is NOT the same as the Mystics Team Ability; as it reads, this damage can be reduced by normal defenses like Toughness. However, it is not a counter attack, so it can’t be avoided with Super Senses. Keep in mind that most of the characters in this set with Charge also have some kind of Damage reducer, so they’re the most likely to attack in close combat, and won’t be affected by this Feat.


In Contact With Oracle
Cost – 10 points per character chosen. Minimum of 2 characters.
Prerequisites – None
Ok, so the likelihood of pulling ICWO and the actual Oracle Unique are slim to none, so I’m not going to go into much detail about that.
However, fortunately the Feat card is also playable without the queen of the information age.
ICWO allows you to boost one combat value for an entire turn when you assign a character an action.
Until this is FAQ’d, we have to make a few assumptions: The first assumption is that you cannot use this with Free Actions such as Outwit. The second assumption is that you cannot use it more than once per figure, per turn. (IE, Outwit to boost a stat, then Move to get a second bonus.)
Many people look at this as a variation on Perplex, but keep a few things in mind: It can actually be used on Defense, since the effect lasts the entire turn. A character using this Feat is not the target of a modifying power, and thus wouldn’t be affected by the new Outsiders Team Ability.
Also, the way I understand it is that for every character who is “In contact with Oracle” that is KOed, your opponent will get an extra 10 points.
Pretty much anybody is a good candidate for this feat. As long as you have 2 characters to put it on, and the necessary 20 points (at least) to spare. The exceptionally nice thing about this feat is that you can assign it to every single figure on your team as long as you have the points to spare. That way every character has adjustable stats to fit to their needs.
Keep in mind though that you can only modify a combat value when that figure is given an action, so you can’t just arbitrarily bump up a figure’s defense.
Also make sure to know who on your opponent’s team is assigned as an agent of Oracle, and keep track of the extra points when you knock them out. Those 10 points can make the difference in close games, but are really easy to forget.


Fortitude
Cost – 25
Prerequisites – None
Well, there is a good deal of Outwit in this set. There’s also a fair amount of Exploit Weakness. So anyone choosing to play this Feat will probably get some use out of it.
However, without being able to “build to suit” teams, someone with Outwit may not be as dangerous as they would in a normal Constructed game.
Fortitude may or may not be useful on your team. The catch-22 though is that the really high point characters that this is intended for are already so expensive in a 300 point game that adding another 25 points to their cost is pushing your luck.
On lower cost figures, in the 100 – 125 point range, you have to weight the benefits of keeping your mid-cost character alive, versus adding another 25 points to their cost.
In the end, this is really going to come down to personal choice, more than just about any other feat in the set.


Large Object
Cost – 3 points per 100 of the build total (ie, 9 points for the marquee)
Prerequisite – Super Strength or Telekinesis.
This Feat is a little confusing, but read it carefully and you’ll see the benefit it offers.
Essentially you can increase a character’s Attack Value by decreasing the Damage Dealt by an object.
This set is particularly Super Strength heavy, so paying 9 extra points for your characters to gain this benefit could be a small price to pay by comparison.
There are a huge number of figures with Super Strength whose attack value drops pretty low, while they still remain otherwise very strong. Meaning they can use this feat later in the game to improve their attacks.
Getting in the first big hit early in the game can also be crucial, sometimes the ability to land a hit can be more important than how hard you hit, using Large Object to improve your attack value can be a big help there as well.
However, keep in mind that there are only 6 objects total on the field, and you probably won’t get to use all 6. So there will only be a handful of opportunities to use this ability, and that you may not want to use it every time you attack with an object (choosing instead to use an object’s full damage.) Keep that in mind when building your team, and if you only have 1 or 2 figures with Super Strength, it may not actually be worth the extra 10 points, especially if it means that you can’t fit another figure or feat on your team instead.
The figures that do have Super Strength, tend to have a lot of it, so just about any of them are good candidates for this feat. Some in particular are: Rookie Blockbuster- on the clicks where he has Charge, his AV could use a little help. Power Girl’s AV drops off quicker than her Damage, so this could help. Ultraman also has the same issue.


Lazarus Pit
Cost – 20 (10 for Ra’s al Ghul)
Prerequisite – None.
First off, this card is very confusing, so make sure to read it thoroughly and understand it before you actually play it.
Basically what it does is let you resurrect a KOed character… all it takes is time.
That is the important thing to note with this Feat, the timing. Keep in mind that you’ll be playing with a set time limit, and consider that; before you can even use this card, you have to wait for one of your figures to get KOed. Then it takes several turns back and forth for the character to get healed. Then you have to wait before you can remove the “special” marker and fully use the character. With all that, the game may very well be over before you ever get your figure back into play!
As all that is happening, your opponent has still already received the points for the initial KO, and if the character is still on the Feat card regenerating when the game ends, your opponent gets those points again!
Lastly, this feat card works best on characters who are good at the end of their dial. Using this on someone like Prometheus or Superboy will take you forever to get them back to their worthwhile clicks. However, someone like Batman could be good since he has Outwit at the end of his dial.
There really aren’t any figures in this set with late dial upswings, Joker has a fantastic last click, but if you bring him back to life on that click you’re pretty much giving your opponent another 85+ points. Also, not a single figure in the entire set has Regeneration, which would allow a character to come back to life and then Regen back some more.
Ultimately, this feat card probably won’t work out nearly as well as you might hope, and could very well end up giving your opponent twice the points for the target figure. (However, no matter how many times they KO this figure, they only get points for the Feat card once.)

If you opt to play this card, watch out for an unscrupulous player intentionally stalling to slow down your healing process.


Stunning Blow
Cost – 10
Prerequisite – Incapacitate
This is another feat that has players excitedly discussing all the possibilities.
Surprisingly though, there’s not as much Incapacitate in this set as there tends to be for DC, so the Feat may not be all that popular in the Marquee.
The best candidates for Stunning Blow are figures with high natural damage and multiple ranged attacks. But most of the figures with Incapacitate in Legacy have single targets and/or low base damage. Even so, the feat only costs 10 points and you’ll probably have that much left to fill out your team anyway.
The very best candidate for this feat in Legacy is Red Robin. He has all the qualities you’d want for Stunning Blow. Other good choices are Talia, Star Spangled Kid, Mr. Terrific, and Mr. Freeze. Kid Quantum actually isn’t a very good choice since she only has a base damage of 1, so Stunning Blow won’t do much for her. (She’s also already very pricey for what she does and adding another ten points to that probably isn’t a good idea.)
While this feat may not play out real big in the Marquee, it will be a very popular going forward.

Trick Shot
Cost – 20
Prerequisite – Plasticity or Ranged Combat Expert
There are a couple pros and cons to this card.
The Con is that in comparison to the same card from Mutant Mayhem, this one has an added restriction. It says “When making an attack” which means that you can’t use it Outwit a figure in stealth.
However, the Pro here is that there are a number of characters in Legacy that can actually use the card. (Whereas in MM, there were maybe 3, and none of them any good.)
This set has a fair amount Stealth, and the potential for wildcard abuse, so if you can arm someone with Trick Shot you’ll pretty much take away your opponent’s advantage.
Some good choices are: Stargirl, Jade, Sinestro (even the vet, who doesn’t start with RCE), Captain Atom (who also doesn’t start with RCE), and the best of the bunch – Green Lantern. Mr. Freeze is also a good option, and his Vet could actually use Trick Shot to Incapacitate 2 targets in Stealth! (But he could not use this trick shot to put up a Barrier outside his line of sight, since Barrier is not an attack.)
There are no figures with Plasticity in this set, so that aspect of the prereq is a non-issue.


Battlefield Condition Cards


Bright Lights
The “anti-stealth” BFC. If you have a lot of range, and no Stealth yourself, this feat could make or break entire games for you! It could also heavily influence your team building preferences.
However, keep in mind that this card won’t come up in every tournament, so if you don’t pull it, don’t let the fear of it determine how you build your team. (But do be conscious that it is out there.)

Deep Shadows
Despite what people think, this BFC is not contradictory to Bright Lights. You can actually use the two together. Which would be pretty interesting if it happens.
This one can work very much in your favor if you pull the right team. If you get a lot of figures with Charge, or limited range, Deep Shadows could redeem your team by limiting your opponent’s range (many of which in this set are greater than 6). It will also limit the range of Outwit and TK, which could work in favor of some teams as well.
Keep this in mind when choosing your figures, and you could build a team that completely ruins your opponent’s supposed strategies!

Ordinary Day
There are more devastating BFC’s in this set than Mutant Mayhem. Pulling Ordinary Day could save you from getting blind sided by the likes of Deep Shadows or Poor Teamwork.

Overconfidence
As mentioned before, there’s only 1 figure in the entire set that starts with Perplex, and only a handful that get it anywhere on their dial. So the use of this BFC in sealed play will be limited. However, if your opponent does actually have Perplex on their team, this will nearly eliminate that advantage. And if you pull no other BFC besides this one (and don’t have Perplex yourself) go ahead and play it, it won’t hurt you any.

Poor Teamwork
The considerations to weigh before playing this are; if you don’t have any TK on your own team, do you want to risk giving up the ability to carry other figures?
If you do pull useful TK, playing this would be akin to shooting yourself in the foot. But since there’s not a lot of TK to go around, you could play this to nerf the big advantage someone else might have.
There’s also a lot of fliers in this set – so there’s a chance your whole team could fly. In that case, there’s no harm in playing this. If you have a mixed team of flyers and grounded figures, you may want to pass on this feat, as it will hurt you as much as your opponent.

Radiation Leak
This BFC affects Support and Regen, neither of which appear anywhere in this set. So this Feat is a non-issue for this Marquee.


Bystanders

Between all the Feat and BFC cards that people hope to pull, the Bystanders tend to get overlooked. However, they can be a great asset in a sealed game, or any game for that matter.

Iris West-Allen – 3
Carol Ferris – 3
Dr. Jeremiah Arkham – 2

These are the three Bystanders who are little more than innocent observers. They have zero damage and minimal other stats. Carol has the highest defense of the bunch at 14, while Dr. Arkham can barely defend himself with his 12.
These tokens are good for filling out points on your team (if you want), but their real value are as a throw away figures. Let your flying characters carry one of them around and block their flank. Having a throw away 3 point character block LOS from an opponent is well worth the cost. You can also use them to tie up an opposing figure, forcing them to choose between wasting an attack on such a low point objective, or risking rolling to break. Even though they’re easy to KO, the Tokens can be a huge nuisance if played well. If you do pull one of these, it really can’t hurt to put one on your team and try them out.

Jimmy Olsen – 5
Thomas Kalmaku – 5
Both of these bystanders actually have a damage value, even though their attack and defense are the same as Carol Ferris’s. They’re still cheap and effective at only 5 points, but using more than one on a team is probably pushing it. Particularly since they’ll just about never get off a successful attack.

Ma Hunkle – 9
You’re essentially paying 9 points for a single click of Toughness. Although Ma may be able to survive an Energy Explosion attack, there are only a handful of figures in this set that deal only 1 damage. Anybody else can still take this token out with a single attack. There may be some uses for Ma Hunkle on a constructed team, but in this format her easy 9 points may be more of a liability than an asset. Especially if you realize that this one character will create an 18 point gap, 9 down for you, and 9 up for your opponent.

Harvey Bullock – 12
In general, it is pretty hard to justify a 12 point token. Even with Toughness.
However, in this Marquee, there are so many wildcard characters that Harvey’s Police Team Ability could be a huge benefit to the entire team. Particularly when you consider how many high defense characters there are in Legacy.
Besides his TA, Harvey also has a small ranged attack with a decent AV so he can attack in a pinch. If you pull any wildcard figures to go with him, Harvey is almost a must for your team.
Other players may also underestimate him, not realizing that your ‘pog’ can ping them for 2 damage from 6 squares away.
Just don’t use him as mobile blocking terrain the way you would Carol Ferris or Iris Allen, since he’s an easy 12 points for your opponent.

[mol0tov]

Sweet, thanks :D

[drgnoftyr]

don't forget ma hunkle and harvey you can use joker and his mastermind to keep him on one of his better clix ... and if you pull both so much the better ...:laugh: :laugh:

[thugit]

The Lazaus Pit worked BEAUTIFULLY for me. Ra's came back from the grave compeletely healed in 2 games....

I would use him as bait to draw someone out, they'd KO him, I'd KO the figure that KO'd him--only Ra's gets to come back!

ICWO does NOT work on free actions. It has to be a "tokenable action"--that's straight from Hair10's mouth to my ears.

[AZS]

Originally posted by thugit
ICWO does NOT work on free actions. It has to be a "tokenable action"--that's straight from Hair10's mouth to my ears.I meant to say "cannot", and have edited the article. Thanks for pointing that out.

I also meant to say "...so the likelihood of getting exactly the card you want for a specific character is pretty unlikely, unless you are Thugit."

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Impervious Candidate #1: E Superwoman. A lightly expensive brick, who gets to keep her Super Strenghth, Impervious (with 17 D), Charge and PC all intact.

I used this combo and it worked very, very well. Until I forgot I had it when my opponent outwitted Charge rather than IMP. D'oh!

[4est]

Quick note that I think is worth mentioning. In sealed games you get to use your battlefield condition every round. So if you pull a good one don't sweat about whether to play it or not. Just do it.

Great write-up azs

[thugit]

Originally posted by azs

I also meant to say "...so the likelihood of getting exactly the card you want for a specific character is pretty unlikely, unless you are Thugit."



It's good to be the king.

;)

[sundevil]

Armor Piercing is the best Feat ever made.

And that means something in a set with a lot of great feats (Stunning Blow, Fortitude and Lazarus Pit all come to mind).

[urlmaker]

Originally posted by azs
Note #2 – This Feat only says it deals 1 click of damage back. It is NOT the same as the Mystics Team Ability; as it reads, this damage can be reduced by normal defenses like Toughness. However, it is not a counter attack, so it can’t be avoided with Super Senses. Keep in mind that most of the characters in this set with Charge also have some kind of Damage reducer, so they’re the most likely to attack in close combat, and won’t be affected by this Feat.

Unless you stack it with Armor Piercing... :)

Outside of the Marquee I could see some crazy Damage Shield/Armor Piercing combos particularly with Poison.

[de4dp00l]

Large Object is not going to be all that useful. Don't forget that you can only reduce the damage to a minimum of 1, so if you're swinging with a standard light object for a Close Combat action, you can't benefit from the feat at all. A standard Heavy will give you a bonus of +1. 3d objects open up the field a little bit, with the Soda Machine and Mailbox upping the damage for heavy and light objects respectively, and the Dumpster allowing you to at least have access to Heavy throughout the game.

TK will be marginally more useful with the card, but damage will still be ridiculously low for the most part. For 9 points, it's not really a huge investment, and in a sealed event.

[FaithlessOne]

Deep Shadows is -huge- in sealed play. With all the high defenses in this set, the +1 hindering bonus you get -anywhere- is great! Of course, it's a double edged sword and works both ways... but still, it's nice to see Jade's defense become an 18 :)

[eagletsi]

Great breakdowns of the Cards. I'm getting excited about the Marquee now.:grin:

eagletsi

[LeaLu]

Originally posted by de4dp00l
Large Object is not going to be all that useful.

Against someone like Green Lantern, every single point of bonus you can squeeze in to improve your attack will count. V Superwoman charging with a heavy and using the Large Object feat only needs an 8 to hit GL, and she can have a reroll thanks to the CSA Team Ability. If you don't want to risk the KC roll, then have her throw it, and get up to a 13 attack that way for 1 damage, or a 12 attack for 2 damage. Green Lantern in particular gets progressively easier and easier to hit as soon as you are able to crack that initial 20 defense, so in a set with this little Perplex and PD, feats provide another good means to get attack levels up to provide a reasonable chance of hitting the 20 defense figures in the set. Unless you're lucky enough to pull exactly the right figures to get to an even 300, there's a pretty decent chance of having nine points to spare for a feat like this. If you don't need it, you aren't obligated to use it on every attack.

[Mister J]

E Joker is a great canidate for Armor Peirceing since he starts with Poison. Also, in any team with no Outwit putting Armor Piercing on your big gun, like Zod or Mongul, can still be a great way to get past IMP even if your opponent makes his roll. Even if you DO have outwit, if you don't have a good Psychic Blast peice you still might want to give your primary attacker Armor Peircing just in case you run up against someone with IMP and Fortitude. Anything to stop someone from getting one of those lucky IMP roll streaks that makes even the best strategy meaningless.

[DarkCrisis]

So basicly ICWO is only good for raising your defense right?

[AZS]

Originally posted by DarkCrisis
So basicly ICWO is only good for raising your defense right?I don't think so, no.

Its like personal perplex. If you're taking an action to make an attack, boost Damage, AV, or Range. If you're charging, boost Movement.

But, if all a character is doing is moving from one place to another, use that action with ICWO to boost Defense.

[DarkCrisis]

But you have to take an action to use it right?

How can you use ICWO in the middle of an action?

Isn't it declare an action

take the action

now that youve met the needs for ICWO you get a self-perplex

[CuriousLurker]

This is the also the first Marquee with both bystander tokens and Suicide Squad members potentially in the same pack. If I was to pull a Blockbuster or Enchantress, those dirt cheap Arkhams and Allens will be well worth their point costs.

The other nice thing is with so may high point figures you might be not be wasting an action getting those tokens in place and with our first Suicide Squad flier who can bring with them a buddy to sacrifice; the tokens may not be something to scoff at.

[lukebuchanan]

This is going to be a really stupid question, but I want clarification for my guys at our tournies:

When using Armor Piercing, is the damage value dealt in full, that is I understand that if a HYDRA operative shoots Despero while having AP, he'll take 1 damage no matter what on a sucessful roll. However, what if Eclipso hits Despero, has AP, and declares it. Eclipso will do 1 damage, unavoidable, as well. Is this correct, because if we have people bypassing Impervious, INV, and TGN for full damage it'll be a mess. Thanks,

Luke B.

[Glen Quagmire]

Originally posted by azs
Large Object
Cost – 3 points per 100 of the build total (ie, 9 points for the marquee).[/i]

That's actually a bit disappointing. I hadn't read the card that way before. I had just thought it was more of a "three points per character, but not more than 3 points per 100 of the build total" type thing. Ah, well. Still useful, but it looks like the 9 points are only worth while on a team with a good number of super strength figures. I tend not to build teams like that.

Ah well. At least I didn't draw it last week. Probably would have built a team with it and gone over on point unknowingly.

[LeaLu]

Originally posted by lukebuchanan
This is going to be a really stupid question, but I want clarification for my guys at our tournies:

When using Armor Piercing, is the damage value dealt in full, that is I understand that if a HYDRA operative shoots Despero while having AP, he'll take 1 damage no matter what on a sucessful roll. However, what if Eclipso hits Despero, has AP, and declares it. Eclipso will do 1 damage, unavoidable, as well. Is this correct, because if we have people bypassing Impervious, INV, and TGN for full damage it'll be a mess. Thanks,

Luke B.

The damage just can't be reduced below 1. So Eclipso (with armor piercing) hits Despero for 4, and Despero fails his Impervious roll. Despero takes 2. Or, Despero makes his Impervious roll, and takes 1 (instead of reducing the damage to 0, he reduces it to 1).

[AZS]

Originally posted by DarkCrisis
But you have to take an action to use it right?

How can you use ICWO in the middle of an action?

Isn't it declare an action

take the action

now that youve met the needs for ICWO you get a self-perplexWhen I said it was like "self perplex", it implied that it opperates under the same rules as perplex.
That is not the case.

“…when an Agent is given an action you may choose to give one of its combat values +1 until the beginning of your next turn.”

To me, this says that at the time you declare that you are giving a character an action, you choose to increase one of the combat values, then make the action. You’re not doing something in ‘the middle’ of an action because it all happens at the same time.

[disciplev1]

From Hair10's clarifications on WK forums:

"The +1 to combat values that Agents gain is applied immediately when the action is given."

Thanks for the awesome articles azs!

[Painreliever]

So how bout this...playing Darkness with KC Flash Armor Piercing and Energy Shield, always having him stop on hindering terrain. That would mean anyone attacking from range has to hit a 22 and anyone who hits up close takes a click back? And you could play ICWO card to up his defense to a 23?

[LeaLu]

Originally posted by Painreliever
So how bout this...playing Darkness with KC Flash Armor Piercing and Energy Shield, always having him stop on hindering terrain. That would mean anyone attacking from range has to hit a 22 and anyone who hits up close takes a click back? And you could play ICWO card to up his defense to a 23?

I don't believe Darkness increases your defense, and what is "Energy Shield"? You'd be better off playing Deep Shadows, so everywhere is hindering terrain :)

[Painreliever]

Okay sorry getting all more words messed up...I meant to say Deep Shadows...and Damage shield...also I realized that deep shadows and sitting him on an object do the same +1 so max would be a 22 defense at range, 21 in close combat.

But...would trick shot avoid the +1 from Deep Shadows?

Also with this trick shot I was thinking you could base the trick shot figure with a stealth figure, even out in the open, then TK an object to his square and the trick shotter has to deal with the Stealthy in close combat to continue trick shotting.

[cephusdog]

Originally posted by thugit
The Lazaus Pit worked BEAUTIFULLY for me. Ra's came back from the grave compeletely healed in 2 games....

I would use him as bait to draw someone out, they'd KO him, I'd KO the figure that KO'd him--only Ra's gets to come back!


I figured if I got Ra's and Lazarus Pit in the same booster it was a sign and it was...
Lazarus Pit worked extremely well for me as well. Ra's KO'd at the hands of KC Hawkman came back 4 rounds later to avenge his own death.
I didn't know the deal that figures were unable to move into the square with the token in it, so I scrambled to KO a figure in his square to be able to bring him back. NOW I know better...

[LeaLu]

Originally posted by Painreliever
Okay sorry getting all more words messed up...I meant to say Deep Shadows...and Damage shield...also I realized that deep shadows and sitting him on an object do the same +1 so max would be a 22 defense at range, 21 in close combat.
You don't get a double bonus from hindering terrain. Under Deep Shadows, all non-blocking terrain counts as hindering, so whether there's one square of hindering terrain between you and your target or ten squares of hindering terrain, you only get the same flat +1 to your defense vs. ranged attacks. No different than any other time.

But...would trick shot avoid the +1 from Deep Shadows?
There is no "+1 from Deep Shadows" separate from the terrain. Trick Shot ignores Stealth, Stealth-like Team Abilities, and hindering terrain and figure bases for purposes of drawing LOF, so Trick Shot would ignore the hindering terrain bonus as always, as though there were no hindering terrain in the way.

Also with this trick shot I was thinking you could base the trick shot figure with a stealth figure, even out in the open, then TK an object to his square and the trick shotter has to deal with the Stealthy in close combat to continue trick shotting.

This, on the other hand, is a sound strategy. Being Stealthed and basing the trick shot figure is a good way to lock them down and prevent them from using Trick Shot. Taskmaster with Damage Shield and a Mystic/Crossgen to mimic would be a good choice for this. TK him into base-to-base, TK an object underneath him, then he can go to work on the trick shotter, who not only can no longer use trick shot (since they're based), but has to deal with damage shield and crossgen damage to get rid of the stealthed fighter in their face.

[ohoni]

I know the review is about the marquee itself, but in terms of longterm play, wouldn't Large Object be made MUCH more useful by the "Rip It Up" BFC? I assume that the "free" objects provided by that card would equate to practically auto-perplexing attack if used in combination with Large Object.

[Painreliever]

One more clarification...I wasn't saying the Deep Shadows and Hindering Terrain stack, I was recognizing I did that in my first post and was trying to say that they are essentially the same thing, a total +1 hindering terrain bonus, but that adding in the +1 defense from In Contact With Oracle he could still get to 22 defense, 21 vs Trick Shot or Melee.

If I had realized that you could base the trick shotter and he can no longer trick shot I might have done better in the constructed portion of the prerelease, as I could have based Amazo and had a decent chance to take him out in my 2nd round of the constructed portion.

[LeaLu]

The problem is Rip It Up only provides free light object tokens, which your superstrength character can only use in conjunction with Large Object if they're throwing it. In that case, you'd have an unlimited supply of objects that you could use to throw at someone from 6 range, for either 2 damage or 1 damage and +1 to your AV. The best bang for your buck will always be the heavy objects.

[Phantom]

Armor Piercing will be the money feat for this marquee, and is the one thing that will prevent Fortitude from becoming overpowering. E Joker was already pointed out due to the nice synergy it has with Poison, but this also applies to figures with Quake and Energy Explosion.

There's enough Outwit in this set that Fortitude will be essential on anyone with damage reduction. It's a great ability, because it actually makes damage reduction useful again. No longer do you have to worry about your mighty 250-point Superman being depantsed by a 50 point Deathstroke!

[Wolverine_Hulk]

Fortitude is a waste I agree:laugh: Fortitude can be countered with Armor Piercing. Also Armor Piercing can help even the big guys against Impervious.

[J Rancher Hulk]

Can you use Armour Peircing and Damage Shield together so if somesone charges you with Imp they still take one?

[LeaLu]

Originally posted by J Rancher Hulk
Can you use Armour Peircing and Damage Shield together so if somesone charges you with Imp they still take one?

Yes, you can. Any time you think your Damage Shield may come into play against someone with damage reducers (and if you're in close combat, there's a good chance of it) there's a good reason to add Armor Piercing too.

[J Rancher Hulk]

Kuul, thnx. I am ready 4 Legacy right now!

[Sundance_Kid]

with ICWO

if you play the card with oracle.....

can you copy her team ability even though she is not on the map...???? because there are alot of wildcards in this set...

also I could use some clarification on the other part too..

so, if I use um... mr. terrific to click her dial to outwit.... he gets to use that outwit until my other agent... um... speedy takes an action to click her dial to another click...??? so he would in fact get two outwits.... one being unoutwitable???? need some clarification.....

help

[Po Po]

I witnessed someone at my Pre-release tear it up with Harvey Bullock! He took out a couple of major pieces with him. Definitely a good pull if you get him.
Also, if you pull Damage Shield and Hourman, try it out! Hourman already rules, but he can use the Damage Shield almost his entire dial thanks to his power variety.
Good article as usual, Azs.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Wolverine_Hulk
Fortitude is a waste I agree:laugh: Fortitude can be countered with Armor Piercing. Also Armor Piercing can help even the big guys against Impervious. You realize that the odds are slim that you’ll actually face Armor Piercing, right? You stand a much higher chance of having your brick face down by someone with Outwit or Exploit Weakness.

Look at it this way. For a measly 25 points, your big gun is almost completely protected from Batman. His Outwit and EW is harmless. He does 3 damage on his starting clicks, but he has to devote the full thing to you to be effective. He has some CCE and Incap on his last four clicks, but at that point he’s on his at the end of his dial and his AV isn't what it used to be.

With the amount of EW and Outwit in this set, Fortitude may end up being a very smart investment on figs with a long dial and heavy damage reducers.

[AncientOfDays]

wouldn't any non-flyer/big/large/ultimate/superman ally character's movement have to stop as soon as they moved one square if deep shadows is in play? or would they simply have their movement halved the whole time?

[Painreliever]

I believe the answer to that is no. Deep Shadows effects line of fire. It isn't actually putting you in hindering terrain that would halve your movement it only effects things associated with LOF. Its similar to the way that water terrain is hindering to movement but not for LOF, so water basically does the opposite effect of deep shadows. One only effects movement, one only effects line of fire. At least thats how I understand it.

[Bladej]

In case anyone is curious, the odds of pulling both Oracle and ICWO from the 3 boosters in a sealed is approximately 1/175. :noid:

Also, Painreliever is right on both aquatic terrain and deep shadows.

[JasonPotapoff]

Originally posted by DarkCrisis
So basicly ICWO is only good for raising your defense right?

I think ICWO is a fantastic Feat, for a number of reasons.

1) you are getting 1 Perplex for 10 points. (granted you are forced to spend a minimum of 20 points but you get 2 different figs with Perplex for that). Ther'es no figure out there that gives you Perplex for that cheap.

2) Your figure gets perplex throughout his dial. No figure has that.

3) You don't have to worry about having Line of Sight in order to use it

4) It can add to your defense (can't do that with Perplex) but it can affect anything else just like Perplex.

5) It can't be Outwitted.

6) not affected by the Outsiders TA (although I suspect that will be FAQ'd out)

The only drawbacks to it are:

1) if the figure is KO'd you are giving 10 more points to your opponent. So it's not great for those "sacrificial attackers" the types you throw at someone to do one hit then assume they will be taken out (ie Scourage, or Aquaman). And is poor for figures that you know odds are will be KO'd at some point in the game (ie. Ultimate Hawkeye, Ultimate Cyclops, Havok)

2) It only affects your agent (so not as versitle as normal Perplex). So three figures made Agents cost 30 points and each one is only getting a boost of 1 (not as effective as 3 Perplex on it's own which can be put on a single person to really make an attack effective). So it doesn't benefit the teams who are based around a single strong figure with mostly support around them as much as teams with 2 or 3 good attackers. And after a 2 or 3 agents you are probably spreading too many points across your team

3) Can only be done when you make an action giving you a token (unlike Perplex which you can use any time as a free action whether that figure has been pushed or not


But still I think it's a great feat. Perplex for your entire dial, that can't be Outwitted and doesn't require LOF to use is fantastic. Cheaper than using a Con Artist and no need to activate her. I've been using it for the past few weeks in an online league and it was a killer feat for my team that was using Rasputin and Firestorm. Especially backed up by one other Perplexer (Harley or Riddler), my team was VERY versitile with a lot of Perplex while giving me enough left over points to bring in some good secondary hitters or support.

[Gemini77]

This is becoming a pet peeve of mine, the +1 from ICWO is not Perplex. It is as much like Perplex as PD or Enhancement is.

The +1 only affects your combat values, it lasts til the beginning of your next turn, and it it not lost if you are healed or wounded. In addition, it is not effected by the Outsiders TA.

The 10 point cost per figure is not added to the point value of the figure. Only feats that say "Choose a character" add to the value. Meaning that when you KO an agent you don't get those 10 points. The only way to get them is to KO all of the agents and get the cost paid for the feat card.

[CaptainCanada]

It just dissapoints me that there aren't any Mystic who can use Damage Sheild on their first click. That'd be sweet. A Mystic with Armor Piercing and Damage Sheild. Looks like a job for super-duper-wildcardin' Cloak! :devious:

[Phantom]

Originally posted by CaptainCanada
It just dissapoints me that there aren't any Mystic who can use Damage Sheild on their first click. That'd be sweet. A Mystic with Armor Piercing and Damage Sheild. Looks like a job for super-duper-wildcardin' Cloak! :devious: Not true! Zatanna and Circe both start with ES/D, so they can use Damage Shield as needed.

[JasonPotapoff]

Originally posted by Gemini77
This is becoming a pet peeve of mine, the +1 from ICWO is not Perplex. It is as much like Perplex as PD or Enhancement is.

The +1 only affects your combat values, it lasts til the beginning of your next turn, and it it not lost if you are healed or wounded. In addition, it is not effected by the Outsiders TA.



Well it's very nearly Perplex. It's quicker to say Perplex than "+1 to your combat values till the beginning of your next turn" over and over again. I beg to differ on your saying it's as much like Perplex as PD or Enhancement are (they boost only one specific value not your choice, where as ICWO boosts any value that Perplex can boost). But that's quibling.

Perhapos it's better to refer it to Perplex-like or Nearly-Perplex.



The 10 point cost per figure is not added to the point value of the figure. Only feats that say "Choose a character" add to the value. Meaning that when you KO an agent you don't get those 10 points. The only way to get them is to KO all of the agents and get the cost paid for the feat card.

Ah right... Misread that. Hmm I will need to go over 2 previous online games and make sure that it didn't affect the victory points too much..

[Painreliever]

As other people who are like Mystics...V Bron and U Sam Rey from Indy are Crossgen both start with Invulnerability so they could both use it. E Demon, V Demon, U Ares, LE Zatanna, V Zatanna, R Circe, can all use it on their first clicks. Of Course Ares makes use of damage shield the most...at 8 clicks of use

[Painreliever]

Also thought I would mention...that while Son of Darkside Superman can use Damage Shield his entire 11 click dial you should remember that damage shield can be reduced while Mystics/Crossgen can not. So the total best bang for your buck figure using the two is U Hellboy from Indy. 11 clicks of Mystics 9 clicks of Damage shield, so if you use Hellboy with Samandahl Rey you get 20 clicks of Mystics and 9 of Damage Shield, plus Sam can heal Hellboy at the end of his dial. Just a thought.