View Full Version : HUNTER DC/Marvel/Indy TOC Round 5, Match 1: Superman Vs Captain Marvel!
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 11:26
Welcome to the Marvel/DC/Indy Hunter Tournament of Champions!
The backstory:
A bored Mr Myxyzptlk, out wandering the multiverse looking for mischief to cause, runs into the Grandmaster and is fascinated. Inspired, he and Grandmaster decide to hold a very special tournament, to see whether the craftiest of the humans can face the most powerful. To that end, he finds amid the vast multiverse a world which just happens to contain all the beings in question, a hybrid universe when all these characters have co-exited all along.
The rules as follows:
Two opponents are chosen from the following list, and given 24 hours to prepare to hunt down each other. No contact can be made prior to that time, and certain handicaps may be placed on some characters at the whims of the two Game Masters in question. Each character is given the proper motivation-- fight or suffer unspecified terrible consequences-- but they are not expected to break from their own codes of ethics.
Characters may make use of whatever resources they have, including allies, up until the hunt begins-- but then must go it alone. Our gamemasters are patient, and they do not expect every hunt to resolve instantly into a battle. Traps may be laid, plots hatched, elaborate schemes set forth. The joy is in watching the two participants at work, be that battle or cunning.
If only one of the characters has an asterisk, that character is handicapped in the following way-- they get no advance notice of the tournament or who their opponent is. This effectively gives their opponent a 24-hour head start.
Voters are strongly encouraged to provide a synopsis
Other than corrections of fact, other people's synopses are off-limits for criticism!
Our contestants!
1. Batman
2. Lex Luthor
3. Superman*
4. Martian Manhunter*
5. Iron Man
6. Forge
7. Nick Fury
8. Reed Richards
9. Magneto*
10. Dr Doom*
11. Black Panther
12. Atom
13. Black Adam*
14. John Constantine
15. Dracula*
16. Captain Marvel (“Shazam!”)*
17. Ultimate Hulk
18. Ultimate Captain America
19. Flash
20. Dr Mid-Nite (Pieter Cross)
21. Deadpool
22. Spider-Man
23. Blue Beetle
24. Time-displaced Brainiac 5
25. The Fixer
26. Henry Pym
27. Abe Sapien
28. Venom
29. The Midnighter
30. Green Arrow
31. Deathstroke the Terminator
32. Mr Terrific (Michael Holt)
33. Prometheus
34. The Human Target
Round 1
1. Forge Vs Dracula: Forge
2. Henry Pym Vs Midnighter: Midnighter
3. Venom Vs time-displaced Brainiac 5: B5
4. The Fixer Vs Nick Fury: Fixer
5. Captain Marvel (SHAZAM) Vs Prometheus: Cpatain Marvel
6. Deadpool Vs John Constantine: Constantine
7. Martain Manhunter Vs Blue Beetle: Martian Manhunter
8. Reed Richards Vs Flash: Reed Richards
9. Abe Sapien Vs Spider-Man: Spider-Man
10. Human Target Vs Dr Doom: Dr Doom
11. Ultimate Hulk Vs Superman: Superman
12. Deathstroke Vs Black Adam: Black Adam
13. Green Arrow Vs Atom: Atom
14. Iron Man Vs Mr Terrific: Mr Terrific
15. Batman Vs Dr Mid-Nite: Batman
16. Black Panther Vs Ultimate Captain America: Black Panther
17. Lex Luthor Vs Magneto: Magneto
Round 2:
Black Panther Vs Magneto: Black Panther
Mr Terrific Vs The Atom: Mr Terrific
Superman Vs the Midnighter: Superman
Batman Vs Black Adam: Black Adam
Spider-Man Vs Dr. Doom: Dr. Doom
John Constantine Vs Forge: John Constantine
Brainiac 5 Vs The Fixer: Brainiac 5
Martian Manhunter Vs Reed Richards: Reed Richards
Bye: Captain Marvel
Round 3:
Mr. Terrific Vs Dr. Doom: Dr. Doom
John Constantine Vs Reed Richards: John Constantine
Black Panther Vs Superman: Superman
Captain Marvel Vs Black Adam: Captain Marvel
Bye: Brainiac 5
Round 4:
Dr. Doom Vs Captain Marvel: Captain Marvel
John Constantine Vs Brainiac 5: Brainiac 5
Bye: Superman
And now…
Round 5:
Superman Vs Captain Marvel!
A classic battle if ever there was one!
John Constantine gets the bye, ensuring an interesting final round!
Based on a suggestion, the GMs have induced temporary amnesia of previous battles, until this match starts. Both participants with have 24 hours to prepare.
Starting Time: Midnight!
lobodragon
03/03/2005, 11:41
Ok I think it will happen something like this. Billy finds out that his next opponent is Superman and his heart sinks. "I might be Captain Marvel but this is my hero Superman". Billy spends his prep time worring about what is going to happen to the world and his family if he refuses the fight. Mr Myxyzptlk is going to kill my family if I don't fight but I can't fight Superman. I do have the edge with my magic so maybe I can get it over with quick.
The day of the fight Cap and Superman meet. Cap says he doesn't want to fight Superman but his family will die if he doesn't so he is sorry. Superman tells Billy that Mr Myxyzptlk is not a killer and doubts that such actions will be taken. This convinces Billy that the fight he has always wondered about is possile. Just who is the stronger of the two. Billy refuses to use his magic in the fight and fights his hero strength agaisnt strength. Bad call Billy as Superman is just that much stronger and gets the win.
SumYungGai
03/03/2005, 11:48
If Superman can keep the battle at range, than he has it sewn up. If Captain Marvel manages to tie him up, Marvel stands a much better chance. I don't see either guy taking advantage and ambushing the other. They might do that against a villain, but not against each other. This will be a fair fight.
I'll still vote for Superman. His offensive powers are more diverse. Cap might have a magical edge, but that has never been a guaranteed win against the Man of Steel.
Whenever DC needs someone who can beat up (but not kill) Superman without breaking much of a sweat, here comes Captain Marvel. I seem to remember in the "Crisis Times Five" JLA/JSA crossover (I think that's what it was- the debut of J.J. Thunder), Cap had a one-punch KO of Superman. It was a sucker-punch, too.
That said, I have to take this from a Wisdom of Solomon standpoint. It's as-yet unspecified what the point of the tournament is, and what happens to the winner. There's no "if the villain wins, all is lost!" in this particular fight. A valid assumption would be that the winner gets some boon from the contest organizers, and if that's the case, and if Marvel doesn't know who the other remaining competitors are (but since he's fought villains already, he knows they're in the contest), then whoever wins in this fight, it'll be a powerful hero going on to the next round.
So in turn, Cap might concede the fight to Superman, knowing that in the grand scheme of things, having the more-powerful Superman going on to the future rounds might be better for the final result of the contest than to advance himself just because he has powers that can result in a win over Superman specifically. He's got enough wisdom and humility to recognize that Superman is the stronger hero, and the best for the job.
My vote is a handshake and a concession (and offer to help in the future) from Captain Marvel. Superman advances.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 12:17
The GMs make it pretty clear that the characxters need to fight, or face a terrible consequence. That means fighting to win. So no handshakes.
Each believes that it is imperative that they win.
kky101023
03/03/2005, 12:18
Captain Marvel for the win. He's got an entire pantheon of Greek deities backing him, and seems to hold the wins over Superman pretty consitantly.:grin:
Doesn't Captain Marvel win this fight most of the time? I'm pretty sure most of these go to Marvel due to the magic edge. By the way who won the Braniac/Constantine match, you have Braniac listed as the winner but Constantine as getting the bye?
Superman.
Marvel has in fact KO'd Superman before by catching him off guard.
This time however, Marvel doesn't have the element of surprise, AND unlike Doom last round, Superman can contact Batman who now most certainly knows who Marvel is......
It would be a MOSTROUS fight and I can easily see it going the other way, but I'm voting Superman.
If CM is going to "Cheat" and get his hands on Kryptonite, hell certainly take the win, but I dont think CM will fight Superman like this.
I see him fighting the honorable way, simply with the powers they normally bring to the table, may the best man win, in which case, magical bonuses or no, CM will lose to Superman, just a bit more than not.
CMs magical bonus is the main reason theyre so even, though even with this, I dont see CM taking Superman in an honorable one-on-one fight more than Superman takes him.
No sucker punching here, no surprise hits, (as that was how CM won against Superman at least the one time) Kal will be ready, and he will win.
My Vote - Superman
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 12:42
If you'll allow me to quote Captain Marvel and Superman from their last adversarial encounter:
Captain Marvel: (After smashing Superman to the ground) "It doesn't take the Wisdom of Solomon to know you should stay down. I've beaten you in the past and I'll do it again if I have to --
-- But I don'twant to."
Superman: "Marvel's powers are based on magic. toe-to-toe he has the advantage."
Even when Marvel thought Superman was a criminal he was reluctant to attack.
Marvel has never put his family or friends above what's right. He is the ultimate hero; the purest soul in all of the combined universe (according to Neron). Self-sacrifice would come much easier to him that Superman.
When we talk about Captain Marvel in these battles we don't present a litany of feats-of-strength or the fact that he could lift the entire mountain range (not just the portion of it that Hulk held up)... No, we talk about The Wisdom of Solomon.
On these very threads Superman has been shown to be vindictive, cold and an absolute jackazz at times. Not so for Marvel
The true hero here will be the first to sacrifice himself and everything he holds dear for the betterment of Mankind.
Superman advances
Yeah, I seriously doubt that CM would use Kryptonite on Superman. Of the DC heroes, I only see Batman doing that because he fights dirty.
Gentlegamer
03/03/2005, 12:47
I really think this match, of all matches, can go either way. This is one where several different stories could be written where either Superman or Captain Marvel wins.
In my version, I could see the fight starting as an epic slugfest in a deserted area (neither wants to harm bystanders). Captain Marvel would start using the Speed of Mercury and staggering Superman, and wounding him with the Power of Zeus. Superman, believing that he must fight his best, would then get very serious, using his own, even faster, superspeed combined with ranged heat vision attacks to get in several wounding strikes. Captain Marvel's Wisdom of Solomon tells him he can't let Superman keep this up and exerts all of the Speed of Mercury to close with his present foe. The battle turns into a close combat brawl in the sky. Captain Marvel soon finds himself subject to the same level of blows Superman administered in his final effort to defeat Doomsday, a strength on a level that Shazam's champion has never encountered. After a grueling fight, Superman is able to knock out Captain Marvel before himself succumbing to his wounds and passing out.
Superman wins in one of the closest battles he has ever participated in.
Gentlegamer
03/03/2005, 12:51
Originally posted by DTM
the honorable way, simply with the powers they normally bring to the table, may the best man win, in which case, magical bonuses or no, CM will lose to Superman, just a bit more than not. Remember, this isn't a "bit more than not" scenario . . . you can come up with your synopsis of how the battle would come down, giving reasoning and circumstances in which either would win.
sigh I really wanted a JC/CM final round match up. Oh well, I doubt this round will be anything other than a straight up fight.
Captain Marvel and Superman will confront each other as equals with a notion of honor in each of their heads (suckas), then they will proceed to beat each other into a living pulp. Eventually after a long hard shlog, Clark's ability to stick, move, attack from range (Which is a tactic he will start to use), and then follow up a stunning shot to CM with an intense pummeling will put CM down.
Vote Superman
Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
The GMs make it pretty clear that the characxters need to fight, or face a terrible consequence. That means fighting to win. So no handshakes.
Each believes that it is imperative that they win.
Holey Moley! I'm switching my vote to Captain Marvel, then.
Originally posted by LeaLu
Holey Moley! I'm switching my vote to Captain Marvel, then.
Actually, that should ensure that you vote for Superman.
In a fight where he goes all out and holds nothing back, I've never seen ANYONE beat Superman. (Well, he and Doomsday killed each other.)
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 13:00
I voted for Superman... but if you want to get serious and both combatants were fighting their hearts out something like this wouldn't be too far fetched:
The fight starting as an epic slugfest in a deserted area (neither wants to harm bystanders). Captain Marvel would start using the Speed of Mercury and staggering Superman, and wounding him with the Power of Zeus. Superman, believing that he must fight his best, would then get very serious, using his own, even faster, superspeed combined with ranged heat vision attacks to get in several wounding strikes. Captain Marvel's Wisdom of Solomon tells him he can't let Superman keep this up and exerts all of the Speed of Mercury to close with his present foe.(thanks GM) But before Superman can react to Marvel's speed he realizes that he's no longer on earth... or even in earth's solar system.
It hit's him too late. Superman looks to where the sun was and sees a giant RED SUN!!! The rumors were true. marvel can traverse the multiverse via the Rock of Eternity.
Superman puts everything he has into the fight. But the stamina of Atlas is great enough to allow Marvel to weather the storm. Slowly, inevitably Superman exhausts his reserves... until, at last, Marvel saves him from the vacuum of space, placing him (Clark) safely on the Rock of Eternity until the danger has passed.
Originally posted by Gentlegamer
Remember, this isn't a "bit more than not" scenario . . . you can come up with your synopsis of how the battle would come down, giving reasoning and circumstances in which either would win.
True, but if say Deathstroke has an 80% win record against Batman, Im not going to come up with a 20% chance win simply because I want Batman to advance. I base my votes on who I think would win more than not, as in most of these TOC Battles all characters have some chance to win, and go from there. (by the way, there is NO Official Rule saying you have to vote as such in my TOCs, just most people do because they agree with the above statement)
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 13:06
Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
The GMs make it pretty clear that the characxters need to fight, or face a terrible consequence. That means fighting to win. So no handshakes.
Each believes that it is imperative that they win.
Based on this I will also switch my vote to......
CAPTAIN MARVEL!!!!!
Kal - El II
03/03/2005, 13:12
My vote goes to Superman.
He's got range. The last battle (at least I think it was the last) Superman/Batman issue 2,3 or 4 that these two had together ended up with Supes winning. You didn't see it but Supes stole Caps outfit (or Bats had a spare knowing it was going to happen). It was a battle to bring in Supes and Bats.
Who prevailed? Supes and Bats did. Granted Supes probably won with Bats help, but according to the rules, Supes can get Bats help for this one too.
Yeah, but you have to take that S/B story with a grain of salt...
Batman also dropped Lady Shiva like a bad habit, when he's never beaten her before....
Originally posted by thugit
Actually, that should ensure that you vote for Superman.
You know, you'd think that, but you'd be wrong. I'm sticking with Billy :)
In a fight where he goes all out and holds nothing back, I've never seen ANYONE beat Superman. (Well, he and Doomsday killed each other.)
I still don't think this is going to be an all-out fight like you'd see with Superman and Doomsday (in which both Superman and Doomsday were willing to kill each other). Superman knew that if he didn't kill Doomsday, then no one would have been able to stop him. Say the worst case scenario is whoever loses gets their friends and family killed. Even despite that, neither Supes nor Cap is likely to take the "two wrongs make a right" philosophy and try to kill the other one, so we're back to both of their normal styles of fighting- pound on each other with their fists, heat vision, etc. And in that sort of fight, Marvel has pretty consistently been shown to have an edge over Superman due to the fact that his powers are based in magic. A lot has been made of Superman's vulnerability to magic, and while that doesn't mean someone with a magic needle could take him down, I still interpret it as Superman being punched by Captain Marvel is a lot like a normal, heavily muscled person being punched by Captain Marvel. If this were an actual comic book story, I think that it would most likely feature Superman and Captain Marvel spending their twenty-four hours working together to try to find a way to jointly trick Mxylpltlk into ending the contest prematurely. And they'd probably succeed. Mxy seems to inspire Superman into some very lateral thinking, and combined with the Wisdom of Solomon I think they could do it.
But of course, that isn't what this contest is about. I'm sticking with Captain Marvel for the KO.
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 13:22
Originally posted by thugit
Marvel has in fact KO'd Superman before by catching him off guard.
How do you catch a guy off guard who can hear a pin drop in St. Louis from the moon??? Answer: You can't.
Marvel has the speed of the gods - Post Crisis he's traveled faster than light (to Pluto).
All Marvel can do... is consistantly knock Superman on his butt.
Gentlegamer
03/03/2005, 13:22
Originally posted by GoldenAge
I voted for Superman... but if you want to get serious and both combatants were fighting their hearts out something like this wouldn't be too far fetched:
The fight starting as an epic slugfest in a deserted area (neither wants to harm bystanders). Captain Marvel would start using the Speed of Mercury and staggering Superman, and wounding him with the Power of Zeus. Superman, believing that he must fight his best, would then get very serious, using his own, even faster, superspeed combined with ranged heat vision attacks to get in several wounding strikes. Captain Marvel's Wisdom of Solomon tells him he can't let Superman keep this up and exerts all of the Speed of Mercury to close with his present foe.(thanks GM) But before Superman can react to Marvel's speed he realizes that he's no longer on earth... or even in earth's solar system.
It hit's him too late. Superman looks to where the sun was and sees a giant RED SUN!!! The rumors were true. marvel can traverse the multiverse via the Rock of Eternity.
Superman puts everything he has into the fight. But the stamina of Atlas is great enough to allow Marvel to weather the storm. Slowly, inevitably Superman exhausts his reserves... until, at last, Marvel saves him from the vacuum of space, placing him (Clark) safely on the Rock of Eternity until the danger has passed. This is a very reasonable twist on my synopsis and I could see it happening.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 13:45
Time out--
I had forgotten one suggestion for this round-- a three-way.
Let me take a quick straw poll-- are people more interested in letting this resolve and having the winner face Constantine, or a three-way among all of them?
Let me know quickly!
If you DON'T do a 3-way, neither of them will beat Constantine.
Originally posted by GoldenAge
How do you catch a guy off guard who can hear a pin drop in St. Louis from the moon??? Answer: You can't.
Really?
Then how is it that Batman can sneak up on him?
(He even snuck into Lois and Clark's bedroom. The implication was that he had been there for a while, too....)
Superman isn't always listening.
He limits himself CONSTANTLY. When Mongul pointed into space to show him something, Superman claimed he couldn't see it--Mongul corrected him: "You WON'T see it."
Superman can definetly be caught off guard--just as Marvel has done before.
oh, and for the record, doom should have won the last battle, but even though he lost, he probably actually replaced himself with captain marvel and took his powers. and if that was the case the doom aka captain marvel wins
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 13:56
Okay, but you can't deny that Cap took down Superman wit 2... yes 2 punches!!! Martian Manhunter was very, very impressed.
Not even Doomsday did that.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 13:57
Sure, as long as Hulk was retroactively beaten by Captain Marvel back in DTM's first SHW TOC! :)
(Seriously, as I have said elsewhere, everyone's own interpretation of what happens is a-ok, it just doesn't count when narrowing the field. Hypertime is in effect-- all possible outcomes occur!)
Cap could certainly beat Superman. I've never said otherwise, GA....
If they both go all-out, no holds barred, I think Superman has enough of an edge in strength to put CM down--barely.
Like I said--I've never seen anyone who can stand up to Superman when he doesn't hold back. Not even Darksied.
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 14:04
Originally posted by thugit
If you DON'T do a 3-way, neither of them will beat Constantine.
Bogus.
Captain Marvel would whipe the floor with Constantine. Superman, however, wouldn't stand a chance.
Goblin_Avenger
03/03/2005, 14:05
Captain Marvel- I believe that if he wants the win, the Wisdom of Solomon will provide him a way to 'pwn Superman. Since they are so close in strength i reall think the smarter one (Cap) will prevail, and Supes' magical weakness doesnt help him any either.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 14:05
No opinions on a three-way? Yes or no?
Gentlegamer
03/03/2005, 14:07
I have no opinion since I know jack about Constantine.
The Red Baron
03/03/2005, 14:07
CHEAP SHOTS
doctorfate77
03/03/2005, 14:08
if they both have 24 hours, they are going to default to superior strategists for help. The wisdom of Solomon may know how to avoid a bad situation if there ever were a worse one than facing Supes, but it can't discern his fighting strategy. Instead it would hurt him. This is why...
Now: Superman and CM stand on opposite sides of a field far from any civilization, so as to not cause any unnecessary harm or damage. They exchange pleasantries and enter into a fighting stance...
24 hours ago at the JSA Brownstone: The Wisdom of Solomon would compell CM to consult Mr. Terrific and Hawkman on how best to take Superman down. They will give pointers based on previous encounters, either from facing him or fighting with him. They all agree that Superman ALWAYS makes the first charge, and they all discuss how to counter him accordingly.
Now: Superman shoots up into the air and makes a hypersonic charge towards CM. CM responds by not attempting to match the charge, but instead holds his stance. Superman's eyes betray a hint of worry as he foolishly barrells head on into an opponent with a distinct advantage....
24 hours ago in the Batcave: "Are you SURE that this is the best way, Bruce?", Superman says, leaning against the bat-computer. "It's the ONLY way... Clark!", Batman chides. He then shoves Supes off the panel that he was leaning on, and presses a few buttons. "Mr. Terrific may be the embodiment of 'Fair Play', but the entire JSA holds that phrase as its creed. So it's my way, or NO way." "Fine!", Supes concedes, "Let's just get to work"
Now: CM betrays a hint of a smile as Supes closes the distance between the two. Much to his surprise, Superman does the same. Before he has time to react, Superman angles his attack and pummels the ground mere feet from CM and sends up a cloud of dirt and debris, at the same time flipping up and behind the "Big Red Cheese" and tagging him on the base of the skull with a focused shot of heat vision.
Disoriented and confused, CM struggles to figure out what move is best to make, when he is tagged on the jaw by a hypersonic "drive by", followed by a barrage of more heat beams.
Slightly weakened, confused, and for the first time, a little peeved, the Wisdom of Solomon urges Billy to close the gap as to allow for a couple of magic infused blows to bring this match to a close. As CM charges in, Clark releases an array of heat vision blasts that wounds, but in no way stops this "Worlds Greatest Mortal" missile. As CM closes in for the game, Supes ducks at the last split-moment, grabs his outstretched fist and using his own speed against him, deflects him into a nearby mountain.
CM shakily stands, hoping that Supes will come in close enough to be felled by a bolt of lightning from calling out the name of the wizard, and glares at Big Blue. Instead, Superman tags him from long range with one more blast of concentrated heat vision for the win.
"Bruce, I owe you one..."
Superman wins.
doctorfate77
03/03/2005, 14:10
Originally posted by Ignatz_Mouse
No opinions on a three-way? Yes or no?
i vote no.
superman has needed a chance to prove himself against Marvel one on one.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 14:10
Originally posted by Rando
Doesn't Captain Marvel win this fight most of the time? I'm pretty sure most of these go to Marvel due to the magic edge. By the way who won the Braniac/Constantine match, you have Braniac listed as the winner but Constantine as getting the bye?
Total mistake on my part (curse the lack of editing!): John C won, by quite a margin. Combination of Brainy's inability to find him coupled with his various psychological weaknesses seem to be the prevailing reasons.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/03/2005, 14:15
We'll proceed, then!
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 14:16
You make the Wisdom of Solomon sound like the Credulity of Solomon:rolleyes: ... good story though.;)
Originally posted by doctorfate77
"Bruce, I owe you one..."
Superman wins.
At first glance I would have given this one to Billy all the way.
First I am alifelong CM fan and I admit that such aprejudice makes me want to see him best Kal every time. Also based on the fact that I've seen Cap put the whup on Supes several times makes me feel justified in that opinon.
However when Dr Fate77 wrote the fight that way with Clark going to Bruce for advice and being told to basically drop the honorable combat carp and fight dirty for once, That makes a huge difference. Fighting dirty is something Cap doesn't even consider and would never expect from Supes. Superman fighting all out and using dirty tactics would in my opinion give all the edge in this one instance to the Big Blue Boy Scout.
Also, nicely written dude. I could actually see that conversation between Clark and Bruce in my minds eye. MAybe yopu should write comics.
doctorfate77
03/03/2005, 14:29
thanks y'all.
out of curiosity, to what extent does CM's magic work against Superman? I mean, granted, he's given his powers by magical means. however, a punch is a punch. how is that any more powerful than getting tapped by Doomsday?
That's a good question that no one has a legitimate answer to.
I'd say Doomsday hits harder than CM, but the magic makes it close.
That's a fight I'd like to see, Cap vs Doomsday.
But on the other hand I always wondered why Superman didn't just grab Doomsday and fly him out into space at HSS and throw him into the Sun or something. Before you think I'm being silly look at what he did to Darkseid recently.
Doomsday was too fast and too wild to try that with...
Remember--Superman thought he could control him if he kept him in the air, and he was proven quite wrong....
HitBattousai
03/03/2005, 19:08
Supes didn't protect himself very well in that situation though(as he never does). He could just as easily throw/punch Doomsday into space to screw him. And I don't think magic affects Marvel's punches(aside from making them Superman-class strong), but his lightning gives him an edge against Supes close-up. Supes has the heat vision, but it's never done much more than annoy Captain Marvel(like in Kingdom Come). However, Supes fighting strategically with Batman's aid as doctorfate77 posted is a nice depiction of the fight and that's the result I'm voting for.
GoldenAge
03/03/2005, 19:21
In April Captain Marvel will be featured in a series that spans all of the Superman issues LIGHTNING STRIKES!!! (Featured in ACTION COMICS #826, ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #639 and SUPERMAN #216)... AND THERE's MORE!!!
Hopefuly, we'll get some answers on the Marvel Family in 2005!
Take a look at what's coming up!
http://www.marvelfamily.com/mfmain.asp
Originally posted by BadAxe1
That's a fight I'd like to see, Cap vs Doomsday.
But on the other hand I always wondered why Superman didn't just grab Doomsday and fly him out into space at HSS and throw him into the Sun or something. Before you think I'm being silly look at what he did to Darkseid recently.
The only form of Doomsday CM would have even a small chance to defeat is his first appearance, and even then I wouldnt give it to Marvel.
Doomsday at the level was the rough equivalent of 100% Superman, PLUS Maxima, Bloodwynd (aka Martian Manhunter), Booster Gold, Guy Gardner, Fire, Ice and Blue Beetle. CM wouldnt do nearly as well handling all of them.
The later forms of Doomsday have him taking on the entire Main JLA, and handling Superman, Martian Manhunter and Orion all at once in combat, near easily.
CMs good, but hes not THAT good.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/04/2005, 10:10
I'mn voting for Cap... though he's woefully behind.
The count is 11-4, Superman leading.
Also, Rokk_Krinn asked me to post this, when it would have been a 3-way. It's a great story:
********************************************
"Oooh, the Big Boys, eh?" muses Constantine as he takes a drink. "Think it's time to go to the Trenchcoat Brigade - well, one of 'em at least - for this one." Drawing a sigil in the dust of the bar, he waits for his "contact" to arrive.
"Constantine" intones the Phantom Stranger a few minutes and a skewed explanation later, "I do not have certainty that I should become involved in this." "Yeah, well, that's all well and good but you should know by now that I only would be contacting you if it was crucial and that I don't fart around with kiddie games." The Stranger stands silent knowing that Constantine tells the truth - such as it is - about how in his own odd way he works for the "side of the angels" but on the other hand, so does Captain Marvel. Shaking his head, Constantine finally plays another card, "Please don't make me remind you of ---****----****" The Stranger winces at the non-human words Constantine speaks...the language of the Silver City....words associated with the Stranger's True Name. "This is a foul game you play Constantine but so be it. I will summon the Quintessance. They will watch your actions and Judge but be warned they have less of a sense of humour than I. In the meanwhile I strongly suggest you speak to your father-in-law, Nergal."
"Bah. Father-in-law? Keep trying to get the Church to annul that one but they insist three marriages spanning 120 years counts as "legal" for them, demon or not." muttered Constantine as he began the preparations.
An hour later, Constantine walks down the Subway path that links with the Rock of Eternity, perusing the Seven Deadlies. "Broke that one. Yep and that one. Ooh, and you're my favourite...next to him." His odd situation with Nergal - the two were bonded in many ways - had led the Archduke of Hell to aid Constantine by making court with the demoness Blaze. Her information had been...interesting. Now cloaked from Marvel's notice by blood etchings, Constantine left a small "present" in the tunnel. "Next stop, Daily Planet to have a talk with those blokes that are always snapping pictures of the Big S."
Chatting up the lady reporter was really pleasant, he had to admit. Lane had great legs, even if she wouldn't say much about the Man of Steel. Oddly enough, using his ability to peer into people's souls and see their secrets, it turned out she was sleeping with Superman but didn't feel guilty cheating on her husband. Then Constantine saw her husband and - admittedly backed by the same power - understood why. Shaking his head, he laughed and asked Lane, "Tell me, does the slick back and glasses really fool people?" He knew what his plan had to be and this time he didn't even have to deceive Zatanna to take down a fellow hero.
Billy Batson heard shouting from downstairs. Creeping down he saw his adopted parents arguing with Mary. He was shocked to find out she had stayed out all night and come home a little seedy. When he asked her why she was acting that way she called him names he didn't realize she knew and pointed out, "Gin and tonic. Try it sometime and you may not be such a little prude." Then the news hit...
It was all over the nation. The Daily Planet's morning edition had a very British "page 3 section". In it Mary Marvel was doing some very nasty things with a skinny old blonde man. Billy choked back tears, his rage building...and then he flipped the page and saw Courtney. "SHAZAM!!!"
"Where is Lois Lane?" demanded Captain Marvel as he strode into the Daily Planet newsroom. The Wisdom of Solomon was telling him something was wrong and that he needed to reel in his temper. Billy hadn't always been the best at listening to the Wisdom - especially early in his career - and it wasn't overly hard for him to ignore it now. Not with his emotions skyrocketing. "Son, I think you need to calm down." said a calm voice from behind CM. Marvel knew who it was before he even turned...Superman. "We don't know how those pictures got there, but..."
From out-of-phase, the Grandmaster and Mxyztplk watched the fight that had unexpectedly erupted. For some reason, Marvel's blows were blunted - they guessed it had something to do with the runes left at the subway tunnel - and Superman was holding up quite well. They had decided that even though the 24-hours weren't up yet, as it wasn't a direct assault by Constantine and the other two, well they were fighting outside of the contest. However, once the 24-hours hit (John had timed it fairly close to be safe) they froze things and explained it.
"Obviously it's this Constantine's fault." explained Superman. Marvel started to nod, it made sense the Wisdom of Solomon told him...and then he pictured Mary and Courtney in those lewd drunken acts and for some reason - even though he knew better - his Wrath went beyond control. The "present" at the Rock of Eternity had been sprung and the fight continued.
Later, the two powerhouses stood panting in the midst of the broken and battered print factory of the Daily Planet. Billy heard a voice in his head...it was Shazam. "William Batson, you must stop this fight. You know it is wrong. You are abusing the powers we gave you. Zeus is not pleased." "Wizard, I'm a little busy right now" replied CM as he began grappling with an exhausted Superman. "So be it, Batson. You force our hand...we will not protect you from what is to come."
A city away, in Gotham, Constantine was drinking - gin and tonic, natch - and watching the fight on television. Smiling, he snapped a packet of something between his fingers and whispered, "SHAZAM!"
The magic lightning crashed down among Superman and Captain Marvel, igniting a near-by printing press and causing it to explode. The explosion stunned the now powerless Marvel while the lightning KO'd Superman. At that moment, the fight was finished. "Now" said Constantine, grabbing ahold of Mxy and Gamemaster from where they stood watching, "about my prize of anything I want...Grandmaster, you back off on these contests. No more mucking with our universes. As for you Mxy, well, I'm keeping that marker in check."
Vote: John Constantine (and Dr. Mid-Nite)
overseeker
03/04/2005, 16:26
I vote Superman for a very, very tough win. He always seems to reach down and snatch victory when it's all on the line.
Ignatz_Mouse
03/04/2005, 16:30
Looks like he has this sewn up! I'll start the next match soon, and let it spin ovr the weekend.
Captain Marvel. Supermans big weakness aside from kryptonite has always been magic. Captain marvel has the better win record in fights between them.If they weren't forced to fight to there all i don't see either of them fighting. But ignatz said they are going to give it there all. So CM to take it
gladiator1518
03/05/2005, 00:06
Originally posted by GAMURAI
Captain Marvel. Supermans big weakness aside from kryptonite has always been magic. Captain marvel has the better win record in fights between them.If they weren't forced to fight to there all i don't see either of them fighting. But ignatz said they are going to give it there all. So CM to take it OK. No disrespect meant, but I'm tired of hearing this from people without them giving proof. Can you give me specific post-crisis references that prove CM has CLEARLY bested Superman in the majority of their fights? I've seen them fight only a few times and Marvel didn't win any of them. They fought during the Eclipso: The Darkness Within series in which a mind controlled Superman clearly beat Marvel. Of course, they also fought in Kingdom Come and although Marvel was winning with his magical lighting, as soon as Superman got tired of trying to reason with him he got rid of him. Superman victory. Then they fought pretty recently in an issue of Superman/Batman and Marvel certainly did NOT come close to winning there either.
By the way, instances where CM sucker punches Superman DON'T COUNT.
Yes, I too would like to recall when, without sucker punching or surprised attacks, Post Crisis, CM defeated Superman in a one on one battle.
Kingdom Come and although Marvel was winning with his magical lighting, as soon as Superman got tired of trying to reason with him he got rid of him. Superman victory STrange as i seem to remember blood running from supermans ears and him getting totally ##### slapped in that particular tpb.
gladiator1518
03/06/2005, 01:35
Originally posted by GAMURAI
STrange as i seem to remember blood running from supermans ears and him getting totally ##### slapped in that particular tpb. Superman won. Period. I'm not gonna wate my time arguing this with you.
gladiator1518
03/06/2005, 01:58
Also, you must of read an alternate version of Kingdom Come than everyone else did cause there wasn't ANY "#####slapping" of any sort going on between those two. You still haven't given me ANY references where CM has beaten Superman in a FAIR fight. While I've given three references where Superman won.
KC Supes was stronger than normal supes by a large margin.
In JLA during Morrison's run, he flat-out punched out Superman.
And Supes wasn't exactly winning in Bats/Supes either. He said Marvel had the edge so traded off with Batman.
gladiator1518
03/07/2005, 09:00
Originally posted by Q99
KC Supes was stronger than normal supes by a large margin.
In JLA during Morrison's run, he flat-out punched out Superman.
And Supes wasn't exactly winning in Bats/Supes either. He said Marvel had the edge so traded off with Batman. Can you be more specific concerning when Marvel "flat-out punched out Superman" in Morrison's run? Do you know the name of the story?" Was it collected in a tpb? Also, was it a fair fight or did CM surprise Superman in some way?
Also in Superman/Batman Superman said that Marvel had the advantage in "toe-to-toe" combat. Superman would have the edge in hit and run attacks since he's slightly faster and has ranged attacks.
Wasnt the JLA Morrison run battle between the two actually the 2 hit sucker punch combo that let CM defeat Superman? He even took a second or so to charge up his fists with magical energy then, to give his fists more of a magical boost against Superman. That being so, I wouldnt call that even close to a fair fight. If not, what other JLA Morrison run battle do you speak of?
My vote goes to Captain Marvel.
Cap is the only DC hero who can match Superman for strength, speed and invulnerability, and the magic nature he can impart to his punches means that they do far more damage to Superman than those of a simlar strength character would (say Orion or Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman).
We know that Captain Marvel can KO Superman with 2 punches and Superman was out for a loong period of time (JLA: Crisis x5). Wwhile many say this was a surprise punch, I merely use this argument to re-inforce that his punches are more effective than any one elses against Superman.
As a basis of comparison, consider a similar attempt by Wonder Woman in "A League of One". She sucker attacks Superman, kicks him a couple of times and still cannot put him down. She even says she cannot beat him (even though she surprise attacked him in a simlar fashion that Captain Marvel did in JLA.
Now Cap and Wondy are fairly similar in strength, yet Cap can KO Supes with 2 shots, but Wondy can't. This demonstrates that the magic nature of Cap's punches are far more effective against Supes than those of a similar strength character.
Cap was also able to KO Superman with a single blow in JLA/JSA virtue and vice.
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