Batman VS Azrael

[spiderboy]

Hi to all! I jus picked up and read the Batman comic series about when Azrael became the new Batman, defeated Bane while Batman was injured, and how Batman managed to train himself back to his best and get the suit off Azrael and let Jean-Paul go after Jean-Paul realised he was not the real Batman. It was a great story that I thoroughly enjoyed. But what I was wondering was, WHAT IF, Batman could not get the suit off Azrael. Who would win in a straight out fight between the two? I know lots would like to pick Batman, but is there anyone out there who thinks in the end, Azrael might have jus killed the Dark Knight? *Gasp!* :surprised

[St-Dumas]

Batman would win.









Why? Because he's Batman.

[JPV>BW]

They have their rematch in Azrael #99 batman with loads of "prep time" hunts down Azrael to take him down for good. But Batman gets the surprise of his life when Azrael takes him out in 5 panels and is gracious enough to spare Batmans life, afterwards Batman decides they should be friends :grin:

Azrael all the way!!!!!!!

[Perfectstorm]

Originally posted by spiderboy
Hi to all! I jus picked up and read the Batman comic series about when Azrael became the new Batman, defeated Bane while Batman was injured, and how Batman managed to train himself back to his best and get the suit off Azrael and let Jean-Paul go after Jean-Paul realised he was not the real Batman. It was a great story that I thoroughly enjoyed. But what I was wondering was, WHAT IF, Batman could not get the suit off Azrael. Who would win in a straight out fight between the two? I know lots would like to pick Batman, but is there anyone out there who thinks in the end, Azrael might have jus killed the Dark Knight? *Gasp!* :surprised

Strait up Fight, Azreal is was a batter fighter, stronger, faster, and had a bad ### suit. He wins.

However, if Batman was not able to trick him to get the suit off, he wouldn't have fought him strait out. I can imagine batman lureing him over the edge of something and catching him with the grappling hook, or knocking a rock from the ceiling onto him.

So in a fight, I go with an armored azreal, but if he was just not able to get the suit off, I say batman would beat him in another way.

[Hack-n-slash]

Originally posted by Perfectstorm
Strait up Fight, Azreal is was a batter fighter, stronger, faster, and had a bad ### suit. He wins.

That's interesting. I'm only familiar with Azrael through the Batman/Punisher crossovers.

There was a pair of them, with Azrael and the just-returned Batman. The Punisher was much more impressed by the skills and ability of the real Batman than that of Azrael.

[de4dp00l]

Azrael will take Batman out in straight fight. He's not as smart or clever as Batman, but he's a much more dangerous fighter.

Batman is better at pretty much everything else, however.

[JPV>BW]

Don't judge Azrael by that abomination of a crossover Batman/Punisher lake of fire or whatever its called, Azrael is probably the most competent non meta fighter of either universe his skills make him superhuman hes earned the respect of Bane, Batman, Ras el Ghul, Deathstroke and many others. Denny O'neill (his creator and respected batman writer) created him as the antithesis of Batman who is the devil co-opted by good compared to Azrael who is the angel co-opted by evil.

[Hack-n-slash]

Originally posted by JPV>BW
Don't judge Azrael by that abomination of a crossover Batman/Punisher lake of fire or whatever its called,

I don't even remember what it's called.
They are both in a TPB collection of universe crossovers.

FWIW, none of them were particularly good.

Azrael is probably the most competent non meta fighter of either universe his skills make him superhuman

Don't take this personally, but I'm kind of sick of hearing that line from the DC universe. I have heard that exact statement about:

Richard Dragon
Lady Shiva
Batgirl
Azrael
...
... and probably half a dozen others.

Can't we just say they're all pretty darn good and be done with it? :confused:

[Regardless, Karate Kid'd take him.;)]

hes earned the respect of Bane, Batman, Ras el Ghul, Deathstroke and many others. Denny O'neill (his creator and respected batman writer) created him as the antithesis of Batman who is the devil co-opted by good compared to Azrael who is the angel co-opted by evil.

[de4dp00l]

Originally posted by Hack-n-slash
Don't take this personally, but I'm kind of sick of hearing that line from the DC universe. I have heard that exact statement about:

Richard Dragon
Lady Shiva
Batgirl
Azrael
...
... and probably half a dozen others.

Can't we just say they're all pretty darn good and be done with it? :confused:

Sure, just remember - in a straighforward fight, they can all beat up Batman.

[thugit]

Azrael would win for the same reasons Deathstroke does....he is stronger, nearly as skilled and he won't wear down as fast as Bruce.

[spiderboy]

Wow! St-Dumas saying Batman would win. Now that's ironic. And for the 1st time I see more people actually thinking Batman would lose. From what I can see here, Azrael is winning the poll a clear 3-1. Cool!

[Q99]

I'll point out the only reason Azrael beat Nightwing was because of the danger to civilians near the fight, #### was literally on top of him and starting to cut the armor open.


Grayson is more agile than Bats, but that still leaves pretty much no doubt that during the original arc, Bats could've probably won with the armor on.

And if he couldn't, Nightwing could ^_^

[Q99]

Oh yea, and on the best 'non-Meta' thing- His conditioning did give him actual superman attributes to an extent (not high level, but definitely noticable), and he lost to Nightwing (who is often underrated but really good).


IMO, he's a rung or two below the best. Batgirl/Shiva/Dragon > Nightwing/Bats > Azrael.

[spiderboy]

Wow! And 1 who actually thinks Nightwing could beat Azrael. :surprised

[Q99]

Not 'can'. 'Did'.

Although I think Azzy got a strength upgrade since then, but Nightwing is definitely the more skilled of the two (and overall quite close to Bruce, who mainly creams him for style familiarity reasons).

[spiderboy]

Sorry, my mistake. Well I guess that makes it a much more closer fight, with very slightly more people backing Azrael kicking Batmans you-know-what at a score of 3-2.

[JPV>BW]

I'm not doubting what you said but when did nightwing beat Azrael? im just curious.

[Q99]

Back in the whole Nightfall arc. I believe it was right after Jean Paul boobytrapped the Batmobile and it looked like Bruce was blown up, so Grayson was pissed.



Azrael was ranting about how the 'crown prince' now is trying to take him place, they mix it up for awhile, fall off a bridge, swim to a casino boat, mix it up some more, Azrael gets knocked down and Nightwing is sitting on his chest and is literally going to work on peeling the armor open with a batarang when Az fires his flamethrower (which is pinned to the ground, but can still fire outwards) and Nightwing has to turn his back to the fight to save some people.


The only thing that saved the Azbat is that NW cared more about saving people than stopping him. Nightwing had him pinned to the extent where he could just not worry about attacks and work on removing the armor, which is a pretty clear "I'm beating you rather badly in this fight" note in my book.

[JPV>BW]

Dude if your talking about knightsend Nightwing definately didnt beat Azbats, he was able to outmanuever him because of the heavy armor but he simply couldn't hurt him. As for him cutting him out of the armor there is no way his little shruiken is going to cut through armor that stood up to some serious firepower from Gunhawk and Lehahs mech soldier, and finally if those cops hadn't arrived to save nightwing he would have been eating his meals through a straw for a very long time.

Then you have the Azrael after Knightsend....in the Azrael suit his abilities are at there peak if you saw his rematches with Bane and Batman (in which he dominated them much more then in there initial fights) you'd see that Nightwing would be out of his league it would be like Tim Drake fighting Bruce Wayne. In fact in Azrael #93 Nightwing tell Barbara Gordon that there is no one who can stop Jean Paul including him or Batman.

[Q99]

He does get quite a bit stronger after Nightfall, admittedly. That one was more of the threat.


But in the NF fight, Nightwing didn't have to penetrate the armor, he would use the batarang at the joints and open it. He was doing a lot more to that Az than Az was doing to him (Picture a fight where an opponent was able to actually spend the time to start trying to unlock Iron Man's helmet while pinning him. That's a fight where Iron Man isn't winning).

He was doing better than Bruce did, and Bruce won too.

[JPV>BW]

Ok but when the fight was done Azbat was fine and Nightwing had to go to the hospital thats not a victory for Mr. Grayson. And yeah Bruce got the mantle back but he had even more trouble then Nightwing since he wasnt able to outmaneuver Azbat and actually almost got killed by the rigged batmobile and in the end Dennis O'neill (the writer) had bruce talk Jean Paul into giving up since he felt there was no way that Bruce would be physically able to stop Azbats.....In the end Jean Paul willingly gave up the mantle of Batman and walked away thats not really a victory.....;)

[spiderboy]

I have to agree with JPV>BW, Q99. NightWing could not get the armour off or defeat Az because Az used his flamethrower. Even if NightWing was cutting the armour apart, he would not be able to get the job done at all as Az had his flamethrower. So besides Azs exceptional fighting skills, he also has his suit which provides armour and kick ### weaponary. Which is why I think Azs is winning this debate of who would defeat who.

[Q99]

Good points.


Hmm.... why doesn't Nightwing have a suit of power armor? That'd make this fair, and I understand Bruce has one know ;)

[Q99]

er, 'now'. That he uses against tough opponents. I'm tired.

[JPV>BW]

If Nightwing really wanted to mess with Azrael's head (if they ever fight again) he should wear the Azbat armor and fight Azrael. Jean Paul would be like what the #$%%

[Q99]

Yea, if they were crueler, the Bats could really screw with his mind.

[JPV>BW]

There might be a Jean Paul/Bruce wayne rematch coming up since alot of people are saying that either Jason Todd or Azrael are Red Hood and Hush, while i would like to see Azrael return if he's Red Hood or Hush it will be the biggest out of character job ever... Even if you ignore the fact that he finally made peace with bruce at the end of his series, his style is totally different then stealthy masterminds Hush and Red hood. If he wanted to take out bruce (which would be redundant because he fought and beat bruce in Azrael#99 and decided to spare his life) he would either come after him directly either as Azrael or Azbats none of this mess with your head stuff, he is a formidable fighter not a strategist.