LOST

[doctor_x]

Wow!

This episode was definately a 1000 on the weird ####-o-meter!

Locke may be dead.

He should never have dropped his guard or taken his eye off of Ben.

Now we know how Dharma ended.

Did anyone else notice that the VW van was playing the same 3 Dog Night song(Shambalah) that played after Hurley and co found the van in a past episode and were riding in it?

I don't know if I believe that Julliette wants to go against Ben and help the survivors.

Next week is going to be great!

[ClownShoes]

You know, this is all getting really confusing... does anyone know of a place where everything we've foudn out so far is laid out in a logical fashion? I kept thinking that Dharma and the Hanso foundation were essentially one and the same but now I'm not so sure... it's tough to keep everything straight.
I go to wikipedia. It's still confusing but it's organized pretty well and has a lot of information.

[doctor_x]

I think that Jacob either lives in another dimension, or is able to cloak himself mentally in some way.

I heard his voice say, "Help me" and it wasn't Ben's.
Ben may be trying to attain Jacobs level of whatever it is and may be trying to kill or take over from Jacob.

Jacob is probably the culmination of whatever human perfecting/advancing/evolving/ experiments that have gone on here and that lured Ben into the Other's fold.

I don't think Jacob is the "island" per say.

I hope "he" does save Locke as I want to see him now!

[CapSpalding]

My predictions:

* Richard (along probably all of the Hostiles) are clones, possibly left over from a World War II experiment.

* The current Richard is not the same Richard who "rescued" Ben. That Richard would almost certainly know that Ben wasn't born on the island.

* Ben's little girlfirend joined the Hostiles before he did and became the Sheriff.

* Locke survives (OK, this one is sort of a no-brainer).

[Thawmus]

Methinks that the Others put Ben up to killing his abusive dad, the same way they put Locke up to it. It's probably some sort of ritual.

I'm still stunned at how obtuse Locke was this whole episode. As soon as he left the Others' camp, he should have had Ben at gunpoint the entire time.

I'm betting that Richard followed them, and will rescue Locke, however.

As for Jack and Juliet coming clean.........the whole crew just annoys me now.

"You tell me!"

"You tell me first!"

"No, I wanna know!"

I wanted Juliet to pull out a gun and shoot both Jack and Sawyer. I'm so utterly sick of all of their junior high BS that it's becoming a horrendous turn-off to the show. I was actually glad that we only got a whole 5 minutes out of them this episode. Ben's a significantly more interesting character, as is Locke, because neither of them do anything uselessly. They always have a purpose for what they do, and they always propel the story when they do something. Ben does something, you find out more about the Others. Locke does something, and you find more and more answers.

Sayid, Sawyer, and Jack just enjoy pissing matches every 5 seconds, Kate is just a jealous harpy at this point, Charlie and Hurley are terribly unimportant and annoying, but yet they all get way more screen time than interesting characters like Desmond, Juliet, Sun, and Jin. These people have history, and they don't act ########. Let them do more than just make reaction faces while Jack and Sawyer whip it out and compare.

[ClownShoes]

I hope "he" does save Locke as I want to see him now!
Yeah, this was the first episode in a long time where I thought Locke wasn't being annoying and then they shoot him at the end. I was actually thinking he was pretty cool in this episode. Making demands. Not having blind faith in things. Acting like a real person.
"Jacob isn't the type of person you just go see. You wait for him to summon you."
"Well, there's a first time for everything I guess."

[Wyldstaar]

I think Locke will be just fine. He came through an uncontrolled plane crash in better shape than he was before. He walked away from the Swan station implosion without a scratch. The Island isn't going to let a lead slug kill Locke. He'll just have a new scar to add to his extensive collection.

[doctor_x]

I think Locke will be just fine. He came through an uncontrolled plane crash in better shape than he was before. He walked away from the Swan station implosion without a scratch. The Island isn't going to let a lead slug kill Locke. He'll just have a new scar to add to his extensive collection.

Well, if the 1 eyed Russian dood can almost hemorrage to death and come back fully healed, anything is possible on this island.

I think this is why also that Richard doesn't seemingly age.

I think that Ben is testing Locke now in some way. Especially since he seems jealous/surprised that Locke heard jacob speak.

I thought Ben was going to put a second bullet in Locke's head but he didn't.

Ben may be testing Jacob as well.

Jacob seems to be in distress.

Ben's dad was a total ###.

I felt sorry for Ben.

Did anyone else notice that the guy who played Ben's dad was in Napolian Dynamite as Uncle Rico?

[JackAssterson]

Something I hadn't caught the first go-round:

From the wiki:

Note: Upon a close view during the scene in the shack, an older man can be seen, which we are to presume is Jacob. He only appears for a split second, no more, and here's how. When the shack begins to shake due to Jacob's anger of Locke shining his light, Ben goes over to the chair to attempt to calm Jacob. However, Jacob somehow sends Ben flying clear across the room. When Ben stares back at Locke with shock in his eyes, the camera pans very fast across the room. By slowing down or pausing the shot sequence, one can see that the formerly-empty chair does, in fact, have an older man sitting in it. This is the only situation in which this man is seen, and his facial features are indistinguishable.

Checked the tape and yup, there he is. Jacob. (...Marley...?)

[Superfro]

Saw this pic on another site and it seemed to sum up my thoughts on the episode very well.

[Superfro]

Seriously though, what an awesome episode.

And good on Uncle Rico* for getting some work, even if he had to play Ben's horrible father. (I prefer to think of him as the Wolfman from Monster Squad, but I know he's more known for being Uncle Rico. :p )

[ClownShoes]

And good on Uncle Rico* for getting some work, even if he had to play Ben's horrible father. (I prefer to think of him as the Wolfman from Monster Squad, but I know he's more known for being Uncle Rico. :p )
I remember him from Real Genius as the guy that lives in their closet.

Also I have to admit I didn't see Jacob when I watched it. The scenes were cutting back and forth rather quickly. I'll have to watch again sometime. I did see his picture on wiki though.

[absolutvt69]

I saw it when I watched it but I rewound it to see it again... I couldn't tell anything about the person in the chair though. I've seen some speculation as to who it is. Also, remember when they were approaching the cabin, Locke bent down and picked up a black substance... ashes? gun powder? I initially thought ashes... I'm shaky on my Supernatural myths but isn't that one way to contain a spirit? Maybe Jacob is being kept in that cabin against his will... and that's why he needs help?

[Thawmus]

I saw it when I watched it but I rewound it to see it again... I couldn't tell anything about the person in the chair though. I've seen some speculation as to who it is. Also, remember when they were approaching the cabin, Locke bent down and picked up a black substance... ashes? gun powder? I initially thought ashes... I'm shaky on my Supernatural myths but isn't that one way to contain a spirit? Maybe Jacob is being kept in that cabin against his will... and that's why he needs help?

I thought ashes as well, but it could also be salt.

Anywho, for those that haven't seen the pic of Jacob:

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jacob

There's one right there.

Kinda creepy if you ask me.

[Wyldstaar]

I think that Ben really doesn't see or hear Jacob in the shack. He probably used to, but now he can't. This is why he was able to get a tumor on his spine. Ben has fallen from whatever grace he'd risen to in the eyes of The Island, Jacob, or whatever.

Why do I suspect this? Because the words spoken to Locke by Jacob are inconsistant with the reaction that Ben was portraying as coming from Jacob. Ben was acting as though Jacob was angry, but when he spoke to Locke he didn't sound angry. He seemed distraught and in need. The fact that Ben couldn't hear Jacob's words to Locke also points to his little show being nothing but a sham on his part.

[cattmoe]

I think that Ben really doesn't see or hear Jacob in the shack. He probably used to, but now he can't. This is why he was able to get a tumor on his spine. Ben has fallen from whatever grace he'd risen to in the eyes of The Island, Jacob, or whatever.

Why do I suspect this? Because the words spoken to Locke by Jacob are inconsistant with the reaction that Ben was portraying as coming from Jacob. Ben was acting as though Jacob was angry, but when he spoke to Locke he didn't sound angry. He seemed distraught and in need. The fact that Ben couldn't hear Jacob's words to Locke also points to his little show being nothing but a sham on his part.

I agree. I think Ben was faking when he was pretending to talk with Jacob and that's why he was so angry when Locke actually heard something.
I saw the quick shot of Jacob last night but even when I rewound it several times I couldn't make anything significant out. I have a distinct feeling that the season finale is going to leave off with some major cliffhangers....

[Wyldstaar]

I heard on the radio yesterday that Lost is going to be given only a half season in 2008, and a half season in 2009, which will be the end of the series. Don't know if it's true or not. The timeframe sound about right though.

[Thawmus]

The more I read and think about this, the more I think Jacob is central to the healing powers, amongst other things.

Ben promised Juliet that Jacob would cure her sister's cancer. And he did.

Given the way Ben expected Jacob to be in the shack when they arrived, I'd assume that he never leaves the island. Also, if he is indeed a spirit, and the ashes, salt, powder, or sand outside is supposed to keep him in that area, then he's not going anywhere.

So in order to heal Juliet's sister of her cancer, Jacob must have a tremendous amount of power, and the ability to heal people from very far away. On top of this, he had motivation for helping Juliet in this way.

And then, the plane crash. The Others discover that a paralyzed man suddenly can walk after reaching the island, and they've all remarked upon how they feel that he must be special somehow. And what better explanation for that feeling than... "Jacob only heals people Ben asks him to."

And what better explanation, thus far, for why Ben would get so terribly jealous of him?

Just wait until he finds out that Mikhail was resurrected thanks to Jacob, or Rose's cancer left her body, thanks to Jacob.

I also wonder if the electromagnet was supposed to hinder him in some way. He doesn't seem to like technology too much, and the electromagnetic dam might be a good reason for that. The Others are STILL completely unaware of what happened to the Hatch. Meaning that Ben very likely has no clue that Jacob's powers might be unhinged a bit. He seemed genuinely surprised that Mikhail was still alive.

One other thought that comes to mind is Walt. It's been a long time since we've even had to mention him at all, but we know what he can do. What if Jacob was like Walt, but died? And was kept in place by the ashes, so that he didn't leave this realm? That would serve up a lot of explanations for Jacob's power.



Despite all the theories here, I think there is a distinct and increasingly real possibility that Jacob was either captain or crew of the Black Rock.

This picture here: http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/DreamyDylan/jacobenhanced.jpg

Also seems to indicate that he might be Jack's dad still. Who really knows?

I'm looking forward to season 4 already. Next week's episode promises to annoy me to death.

[CREED]

I was all set to drop this series until two weeks ago and things started- FINALLY-rolling.I love the Sawyer/Sawyer thing.I'm loving the Others/Hostiles thing.I'm loving that the show is starting to make me ask questions again.For the record-I also thought the powder Locke discovered was meant to contain something big.

[bootkneelee]

.

This picture here: http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w156/DreamyDylan/jacobenhanced.jpg

Also seems to indicate that he might be Jack's dad still. Who really knows?



My girl saw Jacob last nite but I did not {gonna have to go home and play the tape over to see what's what.... But when I looked atthat still the first thought that came to mind was "Kirk" from the TV series Dear John... anyone else have a remote clue as to what I am talking about? Anyone? Anyone? No???

[theanalogkid]

I think that Locke could not see Jacob because he did not kill his dad himself. Ben did not have anyone do his dirty work.

[JackAssterson]

Wild Theory # 45637:

The smoke monster is a manifestation of Jacob -- an intelligent 'security system' if you will, as he protects the island while serving an agenda that involves providing personal spirit quests to the island's inhabitants.

Eh? EH?

[Wyldstaar]

I think that Locke could not see Jacob because he did not kill his dad himself. Ben did not have anyone do his dirty work.

I can't go along with that one. It was Ben who decided that Locke was supposed to kill his father. Ben isn't in constant contact with Jacob, so he had no idea what his intent was. He just knew what he wanted. Anyone who looked at Locke's file could tell by his history that he's not a cold blooded killer. Ben decided to manipulate the situation to discredit Locke in the eyes of The Others, and stabilize his own power base, which Locke was disrupting.

I think The Island/Jacob/Whatever brought Locke's father there for the closure that both Locke and Sawyer needed. Locke only needed his dad to be dead. It didn't matter how. Sawyer needed to face Locke's dad and show him the letter. I don't know that he necessarily needed to kill him, but the guy was just asking for it as it was.

[bootkneelee]

I can't go along with that one. It was Ben who decided that Locke was supposed to kill his father. Ben isn't in constant contact with Jacob, so he had no idea what his intent was. He just knew what he wanted. Anyone who looked at Locke's file could tell by his history that he's not a cold blooded killer. Ben decided to manipulate the situation to discredit Locke in the eyes of The Others, and stabilize his own power base, which Locke was disrupting.

I think The Island/Jacob/Whatever brought Locke's father there for the closure that both Locke and Sawyer needed. Locke only needed his dad to be dead. It didn't matter how. Sawyer needed to face Locke's dad and show him the letter. I don't know that he necessarily needed to kill him, but the guy was just asking for it as it was.

Naw in this cold blooded eye for an eye type of world we live in, Locke's Dad needed to be killed, and as far as I'm concerened Locke did kill him, he laid him out on the train tracks, he might not have been driving the train, but he set him on the course that led to his death...

I just hope that Locke does not bite it....maybe Jacob can and will save him.... funny though, did the one chick know that Ben would try to kill LOcke? I mena after all she gave him a gun andtold him he would need it...

Still wanna know if Ben let his girlfriend get Merc'd when they snuffed out all of the Dharma Folk.... and I recognized John "Uncle Rico" Gries as Broots from the Pretender, man he was a jerk{on Lost, not on Pretender} .... And also the van had not been driven since he killed his dad in it hence the same song playing when they started it back up.
Gotta love 3 Dog Nite!!!!!

[anonym0use]

Gotta agree with Thawmus - Looks like Richard may be a leftover from the Black Rock - perhaps the "original inhabitants" are Pirate Ghosts...

[Stepper79]

Did anyone else notice that the VW van was playing the same 3 Dog Night song(Shambalah) that played after Hurley and co found the van in a past episode and were riding in it?


This is because Hurley and Co. Found the van that Ben Killed his father in, the min he got his Rodger-WORK MAN outfit I put that one together

Just wait until he finds out that Mikhail was resurrected thanks to Jacob

Mikhail says to Ben after Ben comments "I thought you were dead" I would be if the "fence" had been set any higher - or something to that effect

I heard on the radio yesterday that Lost is going to be given only a half season in 2008, and a half season in 2009, which will be the end of the series. Don't know if it's true or not. The timeframe sound about right though.

yes the producers cut a deal with ABC to run thru the 2010 season with 48 remaining episodes 16 per year for the next three years. They will be run 24 style so repeats

[anonym0use]

Ben's dad was a total ###.

I felt sorry for Ben.


Yeah I can feel compassion for child-Ben, but adult Ben is a Mass-Murderer... and I don't feel sorry for him one bit. I'm guessing we'll find out just what drove him to throw his lot in with the "hostiles" next season, and find out what happened to his little girlfriend too. It may explain why he did what he did, but it sure doesn't excuse the fact that he killed (or took part in the killing of) a whole lot of people.

I'd guess that the girl dies as some kind of Dharma experiment gone wrong, or if the Island's fertility problems are true, because Ben impregnated her, and she and the child died during the birth. This might explain his need to adopt Alex.

[Thawmus]

Mikhail says to Ben after Ben comments "I thought you were dead" I would be if the "fence" had been set any higher - or something to that effect

Right. So basically Mikhail had no cover for it prepared at all. That's totally convinced Ben, I'm sure. Meanwhile we saw him stand in the middle of that damn fence and have his brain get destroyed.

And he looked at Locke with horror in Ben's presence, when previously he showed no fear of death, and THANKED Locke for killing him.

He completely put on a show for Ben.

[VelvetGuru9]

Locke has to live. We've seen that Mikhail made it through the fence, and he only "assumed" that the fence wasn't on lethal. So I think it's safe to say that Locke lives through this. Although I have heard that five characters get killed off, will one of them be Charlie? This is not a spoiler since it was a preview to next week's show, Doesn't Desmond say to Charlie that this time "I'm sorry brother, but this time...this time you have to die."

I hated Jack still trying to act like he's the big shot in camp and I want to see how he's going to plan this all.

[anonym0use]

I'm also going to guess that perhaps Kid Ben's girl friend finds out how lethal the fence is...the hard way.

I think if I make enough guesses, I'll eventually be right one of these times...

[doctor_x]

I think that maybe the "voices/whispers" everyone hears now & then while out in the jungle are people similar to Jacob.

They may be spirits or genetically evolved/enhanced humans.

The french woman I thought warned the survivors about those voices though?

We still have not gotten the purpose of the Dharma Initiative revealed to us yet.
We just saw their horrible demise at the hands of The Others.
The Dharma people seemed to be "tree huggers" to me.
Probably growing large fields of pot & poppies or something somewhere on the island, listenening to 3 Dog Night... lol

[readyeddy?]

Everybody's expecting Charlie to die so he'll probably live. I think Locke is to be counted as one of the five who die. That doesn't mean he won't get better. I'm guessing either Jin or Sun will be a widow/widower next week.
What are the chances one of the big three bite it?

[doctor_x]

Everybody's expecting Charlie to die so he'll probably live. I think Locke is to be counted as one of the five who die. That doesn't mean he won't get better. I'm guessing either Jin or Sun will be a widow/widower next week.
What are the chances one of the big three bite it?


Well, in the previews for next week, it showed Desmond telling Charlie,"I'm sorry Charlie, but this time ye have ta die."

I take it he may die during the Others visit in 3 days to the waiting, getting prepared, and ARMED survivors...

He may cheat death though. If not, I say he goes down protecting Claire, Aaron or both.

[Wyldstaar]

Still wanna know if Ben let his girlfriend get Merc'd when they snuffed out all of the Dharma Folk.

I don't believe she was. If she had been, I'd have expected to see some sort of gesture on Ben's part with the dolls they shared. Then again, we may get a flashback later on that gives us just that. If she wasn't killed then, I'd expect her to turn up eventually.

[cattmoe]

I don't believe she was. If she had been, I'd have expected to see some sort of gesture on Ben's part with the dolls they shared. Then again, we may get a flashback later on that gives us just that. If she wasn't killed then, I'd expect her to turn up eventually.

She was significantly older than Ben (or at least appeared to be) but I thought she might actually be that Sherriff lady that showed up earlier in the season.

I think Locke is one of the five, and Charlie will be too - my money's also on Sun and Kate, and maybe Desmond. Probably Juliet so that they'll have a reason for her to not explain everything eventually....

[Dread Pirate J]

We still have not gotten the purpose of the Dharma Initiative revealed to us yet.
We just saw their horrible demise at the hands of The Others.

DID WE?

>In Ben's flashback, the D.I. armed themselves against incursions that we NEVER saw. Were they really under attack from the "Natives/Hostiles"?

>We NEVER saw the planning or execution of the fatal gas attack on the D.I. community. The Natives showed up after Ben did. Did they really do it, or did Ben do it (with some timed dispersal device)? Didn't the gas cannister in Ben's hand look Dharma issue (perhaps poetic justice)?

>Ben had been in contact with the Natives for years while still maintaining his standing in Dharma before the gas attack. What kind of relationship/influence did he develop with them and how did he do it (we know so little here)?

>Most, maybe all, of the aggressions "The Others" have aimed at the Losties have been at Ben's behest.

>Many times, members of The Others have exhibited passive - almost gentle - behavior despite the actions they have been "ordered" to take. Other "Others" are violent and duplicitous. So, are "The Others" a combination of "Natives" and outsiders (like Ben)?

Could it be:
Dharma = not so peaceful
Natives = innocent, passive, & vilified
Ben = evil
Natives + Ben's influence + outsiders = The sinister "Others" of today

Maybe: After years, Ben exerted some sort of control over the natives to use them as pawns in an effort attain a goal which was, perhaps, the same objective that the Dharma people had. Does Jacob need help to stop Ben...perhaps he needs another player to move pieces around the board/island...?

I'm just thinking out loud here.

Remember Locke's characterization of backgammon to Walt? I still can't help applying it to everything I see on this show.

Next week's finale might confirm or squash some of this supposition...

[Grinner]

Meanwhile we saw him stand in the middle of that damn fence, twitch a little and bleed out of his ears.

Corrected to what we actually saw. Whether he was dead or not is still up for debate.

[mike_houghton]

one of the skeletons locke saw looked like it had a bullet hole in it...

[readyeddy?]

She was significantly older than Ben (or at least appeared to be) but I thought she might actually be that Sherriff lady that showed up earlier in the season.

I think Locke is one of the five, and Charlie will be too - my money's also on Sun and Kate, and maybe Desmond. Probably Juliet so that they'll have a reason for her to not explain everything eventually....
Well, as I said before, Juliet is supposed to shoot someone shocking. I wouldn't be surprised to see her shoot Kate or maybe Sun to keep her out of Ben's hands. Then again EW said we were supposed to see more of Cynthia Watros' character in flashbacks and that hasn't happened.

[MSU]

I think Locke is counting as one of the people who gets killed - I don't think he is dead, but sure, that's an easy out. I think Juliet will die, as will Desmond. I think the big three are safe. I think Sayid is safe. I actually think Claire, Jin, and Sun are safe (if they kill off Jin or Sun, I will be very upset...I love Jin and Sun). Hurley might be a target.

[Thawmus]

I think Locke is counting as one of the people who gets killed - I don't think he is dead, but sure, that's an easy out. I think Juliet will die, as will Desmond.

If any of those three die, I'm done with Lost. Period.

Ecko I didn't care about. Those three are specifically off limits as far as I'm concerned. If they want me stop watching the show, killing any of those 3 is a sure-fire way to do it.

[theanalogkid]

I think they are safe, Thawmus. I hope anyone that can shed more light on the history of the Island will be there. I think that we will lose some extra Losties.

[VelvetGuru9]

I think that maybe the "voices/whispers" everyone hears now & then while out in the jungle are people similar to Jacob.
The whispers actually can be deciphered and there's a website that has done it. It comes on three audio tracks that are overlapping. In the episode where Sayid and Shannon hear the voices, one of the tracks comes out as:

"She likes this guy"
"Dying sucks"
"Hi sis"
"Here she comes, here she comes"
"His mouth"
"She drives me crazy"
"Hurry up"
"I see eye to eye"
"I see..."

could Boone be one of the voices since he was dead by this time? Hi Sis...Dying Sucks?

[JackAssterson]

The whispers actually can be deciphered and there's a website that has done it. It comes on three audio tracks that are overlapping. In the episode where Sayid and Shannon hear the voices, one of the tracks comes out as:

"She likes this guy"
"Dying sucks"
"Hi sis"
"Here she comes, here she comes"
"His mouth"
"She drives me crazy"
"Hurry up"
"I see eye to eye"
"I see..."

could Boone be one of the voices since he was dead by this time? Hi Sis...Dying Sucks?

Where is said website? I'd like to read/hear the rest.

[VelvetGuru9]

Where is said website? I'd like to read/hear the rest.
Sorry, I should have put this in earlier. http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Whispers

[VelvetGuru9]

I just heard some stuff from my wife about tomorrow's episode. She's bursting at the seams and only told me one thing, but It's going to be another killer episode.

[Grinner]

It's going to be another killer episode.

Pun intended? :grin:

[doctor_x]

SHOWDOWN tonite!

I hope they blow the Others up real good!

[VelvetGuru9]

We all heard that Desmond told Charlie he wouldn't be able to save him; does anyone think that Charlie gets it tonight? I just saw an Internet preview of tonight's show and Charlie is talking with Naomi and Desmond looks over at him and you get the feeling that something is up.

[readyeddy?]

Well, I think Charlie's going to live, because that will help justify three more seasons because they don't get rescued.

[Grinner]

Wasn't a bad episode, but after the last few we've had it was disappointing.

And I'm really, really getting sick of Jack. I'm hoping that Juliet is still working with Ben and jerking Jack around.

[Superfro]

Man..I was sure when they started laying on the sappy Charlie backstory that he was finally gonna be done tonight. That'll all seem kind of like a waste of time if he doesn't end up dying. :ermm:

[cattmoe]

Well, I think Charlie's going to live, because that will help justify three more seasons because they don't get rescued.


See, I thought the exact opposite..... Desmond said he saw Claire getting onto a helicopter, but he didn't actually see it fly away; i got the impression he just assumed they were rescued. My first thought was that Charlie will probably sacrifice himself but the helicopter will end up getting shot down or unable to leave the island or something, meaning it was all for nothing anyway.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty good... evidently Ben's got his own agenda and is keeping secrets from everyone....

[anonym0use]

I think Ben's time as the "Other's" leader is done, it seems like they've introduced Mr. Dark Eyes as the next "contender." It will really be interesting if Locke steps in and takes control of the Others.

I Think Desmond's precog flash may come true, but not necessarily this season. The tricky thing with "visions" is that you don't know when whatever you saw is going to happen - you only get glimpses. For all we know, Charlie could drown at the end of Season 5, or maybe even take an arrow through the throat in a similar manner in an upcomming episode.

What is particularly intriguing about this time, is that we the audience were not shown what Desmond saw. Almost every other time (IIRC) we were. So it could mean Desmond was holding back (or lying) or something else???!!!

And, here's an outside premise to go with the Pirate/Island Spirits theory: Maybe they need kids for reincarnation purposes? Like, maybe Jacob needs a new body and the only easy way is to take a kid (for whatever reason kids work better than adults?).

I'm looking forward to next week's episode, and at the same time I'm not, only because it will end on a Cliffhanger that won't get resolved until 08.

[doctor_x]

At least now we know that Ben is speaking for Jacob and telling the Others what Ben wants them to know/hear and act as if it came from jacob.

I was dissapointed that we didn't get to see the survivors take it to the Others that are coming for their woman.

I was hoping that Charlie doesn't die.

I would like to see him cheat death and get rescued. His situation has just gotten very interesting. Who are those women living underwater in that supposedly "dead" or abandoned hatch?

More lies from ben? He told/lied to Julliette about them.

I asked why they didn't just cut the cable leading out from the ocean instead of going down into the hatch?

Next weeks previews shows them beating on Charlie and Desmond coming to his rescue or something.

I bet they leave us hanging regarding Locke.

We probably won't see anything about him in the 2 hr finally either.

[Wyldstaar]

It looks as though Nestor Carbonell (Richard) will be playing the mayor of Gotham City in the next Batman movie. I can't help but wonder if we'll be seeing any in-jokes from his days as Batmanuel.

[ClownShoes]

Did anyone else think it was a bit excessive for Charlie to knock Desmond out? Couldn't they have discussed it more and then decided to have Charlie go? I don't imagine Charlie knows much more than me about safe ways to knock someone unconscious. Couldn't he just as easily given him a concussion or caused him to die lieing there in the boat?

Sorry, it just bugs me how often people get knocked out in shows and movies.

[Wyldstaar]

I think it's just considered to be more dramatic that way. It kinda bugs me too, especially when since most of the time the blow that supposedly renders them unconsious more than likely wouldn't cause it in real life. I got smacked in the head with a 2x4 once much harder than Charlie hit Desmond, and all it did was piss me off. I wasn't knocked out the time I got hit by a car either. It's actually quite difficult to knock a person out.

[JackAssterson]

Sorry, it just bugs me how often people get knocked out in shows and movies.

There's a perfectly good explanation for why that happens. You see, HUBLEAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHH!!!!

*knocks ClownShoes out then flees*

[Stepper79]

Alright - I got this one from a friend but does anyone else think that the Brunette that Charlie saved will turn up on the Island (or in the "Looking Glass" station)

[VelvetGuru9]

Alright - I got this one from a friend but does anyone else think that the Brunette that Charlie saved will turn up on the Island (or in the "Looking Glass" station)
The Brunette that Charlie saved is Sayid's love interest Nadia. We know she's going to turn up again, but where. I think she was also in one of Hurley's flashbacks also.

[Stepper79]

The Brunette that Charlie saved is Sayid's love interest Nadia. We know she's going to turn up again, but where. I think she was also in one of Hurley's flashbacks also.


IT WAS???? WOW I missed that one

[absolutvt69]

The Brunette that Charlie saved is Sayid's love interest Nadia. We know she's going to turn up again, but where. I think she was also in one of Hurley's flashbacks also.

Yep I noticed that one almost immediately although she did look slightly different probably b/c it was pouring rain and she was soaked.

Also, was I the only one wanting to see the Dharma shark return last night? I was hoping Desmond and Charlie would be sitting on the boat arguing about who was going to go and the shark would pop up and up-end the boat Jaws-style. That would have been sweet.

And I realize Charlie was trying to be cruel when getting rid of Hurley but seriously where would have have fit on that tiny little boat?

And there's been a Rose and Bernard sighting!

[VelvetGuru9]

I still don't trust Juliette. She told the survivors that the Looking Glass station was abandoned. We see at the end of this episode that it isn't. Then I saw another preview for next week's finale (if you're watching an ABC affiliate you won't be able to miss it :) ) and in this clip you hear that one guy who was sent to get the women yell to his men, "keep away from the tents." That makes sense since in the preview at the end of last night's show we see Jin, Sayid and Bernard captured. I think that Juliette had a signal she was supposed to use in the placement of the white rocks.

[VelvetGuru9]

Did anyone notice that Locke was shown in next week's preview. I hope he's doing something to save Sayid & Jin (and Bernard too).

[anonym0use]

Did anyone else think it was a bit excessive for Charlie to knock Desmond out?

Yeah, like, how come Desmond didn't see that coming? :confused:

[theanalogkid]

All part of the plan for Charlie to lure the chicks out.

[readyeddy?]

I think they're going to cheat and include Bernard and possibly Rose in the five who are supposed to die.

[absolutvt69]

Also I just want to say that even though this was a set up episode I liked it... probably because we a little bit of almost every character (except Locke which I'm sure was intentional to add suspense).

So of course the new station is named "The Looking Glass" which I'm sure has some significance. And was Alex eating Ben's rabbit??? She was definitely eating A rabbit... which also happens to be the symbol for the new station. Does Ben really think the station is flooded or unusable? Are the women w/ guns in there Others? Dharma? What made Ben step up his plan? Is he getting intel from someone else? He's been 1 step ahead of Jack since the getgo. And unlike a lot of people, I LIKE Jack. I like that he's not the perfect fearless leader... I liked that the old Jack seemed to be back last night but almost in a scary, obsessive way.

And I have not been a fan of Charlie for a LONG time now but last night he redeemed himself in my eyes. The top 5 list was both poignant and touching even if it was a bit cheesy. The island gave him something that was both worth living for and dying for and I dig things like that.

Also do you buy Naomi's story that Charlie became somewhat of an icon following his "death"?

[sgtppr67]

Also do you buy Naomi's story that Charlie became somewhat of an icon following his "death"?

I smell a fish there. If they were a one hit wonder, what kind of greatest hits cd would they be able to make?

[VelvetGuru9]

Also do you buy Naomi's story that Charlie became somewhat of an icon following his "death"?
Of course. She happens to be from the same City as h is and you know how local news and media outlets plays up anyone who may have some connection to a tragedy. It gives people a tie or bond and allows the story to become personal.

I smell a fish there. If they were a one hit wonder, what kind of greatest hits cd would they be able to make?
After 30 years in the music industry, let me tell you...they can make any one hit wonder have a greatest hits release. The thing we don't know about the band is if they had any rock radio hits that didn't make it to top 40 radio. We also don't know how many album/CD releases they actually had and if those releases had rock radio airplay.

[doctor_x]

I still don't trust Juliette. She told the survivors that the Looking Glass station was abandoned.


Yeah, she's STILL playing Jack like a fiddle.

If she wasn't letting him hit it-he'd be thinking with the right head. ;)

I wouldn't be surprised if she shoots Jack dead.

[Superfro]

Also, was I the only one wanting to see the Dharma shark return last night?


Yeah....I said to my wife that I hope he swims down, flips the switch, and makes it back up thinking that he beat death, only to get swallowed by the Dharma shark. :p

[sgtppr67]

We also don't know how many album/CD releases they actually had and if those releases had rock radio airplay.
I thought we got a mention about them having 2 and the second one was a flop. I could just be imagining that though, was it locke that said he had them or something

[hail_eris]

After 30 years in the music industry, let me tell you...they can make any one hit wonder have a greatest hits release.
Heh, it's funny, because I was thinking just about the same thing. As I have personally seen, at one time or another, "Greatest Hits" collections for such classic acts as:

Vengaboys
Bow Wow Wow
Starland Vocal Band
Kajagoogoo
Eddy Grant (it had both "Electric Avenue" *and* "Romancing the Stone")


Hell, I want to say that I even saw one for MC Skat Kat, the animated cat from that Paula Abdul video. So, yeah, the idea that a middling Oasis knockoff would score a "Best of" disc is totally believable.

[cattmoe]

I thought we got a mention about them having 2 and the second one was a flop. I could just be imagining that though, was it locke that said he had them or something

Also, didn't Naomi say the band got back together after Charlie's "death"? Maybe I just imagined that. Either way, it's definitely possible they could have a hit record.

[szude]

I smell a fish there. If they were a one hit wonder, what kind of greatest hits cd would they be able to make?

Jimi Hendrix and Grateful Dead are technically one hit wonders. Just sayin'....

[theanalogkid]

How much do you think will get answered in the special tonight?

[Frontman]

How much do you think will get answered in the special tonight?

Not much. I think it will more of the obvious type plot points, maybe a surprise or two.

[Magnito]

Is it possible that the people in the looking glass are the dharma people that Ben didn't kill (either because they escaped or because Ben didn't want those ones to die?)
If it's the latter, it would explain why Ben told everyone it was non-operational.

[Frontman]

Is it possible that the people in the looking glass are the dharma people that Ben didn't kill (either because they escaped or because Ben didn't want those ones to die?)
If it's the latter, it would explain why Ben told everyone it was non-operational.

So a third faction on the island? In a way, I hope not, as it could get really, really confusing.

Oh, and for the record, I think Dr. Jack is one of the most interesting characters on TV in a while. They've done a great job with many of the characters on LOST, and Jack is one of the best.

[Magnito]

When Ben shot John, he did say "I was one of the ones that was smart enough to make sure that I didn't end up in that hole."
This is why I think there may be others.

[Grinner]

What is particularly intriguing about this time, is that we the audience were not shown what Desmond saw. Almost every other time (IIRC) we were. So it could mean Desmond was holding back (or lying) or something else???!!!

Also, have we had Desmond have a flash where he wasn't present to see the event? Because if he "remembers" Charlie flipping the switch and drowning, wouldn't that mean he had to see it happen?

[VelvetGuru9]

Also, have we had Desmond have a flash where he wasn't present to see the event? Because if he "remembers" Charlie flipping the switch and drowning, wouldn't that mean he had to see it happen?
Desmond sees it in his mind. He sees series of events, but that doesn't mean he heas to be there. Remember there was that one time where he had to run through the jungle to save Claire by swimming out in the ocean. He couldn't have been there because he was a decent bit from the shore when he had the vision.

[anonym0use]

What if the looking glass is populated by Women - maybe in an attempt to circumvent the Island's whole - "you get preggers you die" combo - if indeed that is true - which I have some doubts about. If it WAS true, then why did they care so much about Claire - it seems obvious she didn't concieve on the Island.

Any guesses as to who the father of Claire's baby is (or was it already revealed in another epsiode) ?

And, did anybody chuckle a little when Liam gave Charlie his One Ring?

Around here we've got an ongoing joke about Sawyer being a poor man's Aragorn...

[Stepper79]

I watched that Lost:the Answers last night should have been called Lost: the stuff we are still not going to tell you cause we still have 3 years to take care of. (not That I was expecting much)

the only thing that they gave a specific answer to was something we already knew and that was that Desmond caused the plane to crash by not pushing the button. The Producers said several time we don't know or we are not sure it was really quite annoying

[Droppin Deuces]

The Producers said several time we don't know or we are not sure it was really quite annoying

I watched part of the special with my wife and we discussed how annoying the producers are when they comment on the show. They talk like fans discussing the show rather than the creators of the show. It really bugs me too when they say things like, "we don't know where this is going to go." Well why not? I know that writing is a creative process but right now they should really know where they are headed. They shouldn't tell us exactly where they are going with the story but when they say things like that I just think they are winging it from week to week and that annoys me.

[doctor_x]

When Ben shot John, he did say "I was one of the ones that was smart enough to make sure that I didn't end up in that hole."
This is why I think there may be others.


I'm gonna say the other 1 was the girl who gave Ben the doll.

Someone suggested in this thread that the Others "lady sheriff" was her grown up.

[Magnito]

I'm gonna say the other 1 was the girl who gave Ben the doll.

Someone suggested in this thread that the Others "lady sheriff" was her grown up.
Either that or she is one of the women in the Looking Glass

[AUKOS]

What if the looking glass is populated by Women - maybe in an attempt to circumvent the Island's whole - "you get preggers you die" combo - if indeed that is true - which I have some doubts about. If it WAS true, then why did they care so much about Claire - it seems obvious she didn't concieve on the Island.

My wife and I also have a theory that the looking glass is filled with once pregnant women who fled the island so they would not die. A underwater amazonia atlantis if you will.

Claire could have concieved on the island; she was preggers before she arrived. That way si (sp) and jin will have their child in the looking glass and she will not die.


AUKOS

[anonym0use]

Claire could have concieved on the island; she was preggers before she arrived.

Did you mean cound NOT have? :confused: :confused:

I like your idea about Sun & Jin moving to the 'Glass

But something tells me that the 'Glass is going to sink...


Also interesting to note from the "answers" show last night was that the producers confirmed that Locke was sabotaging everyone's attempt to get off the Island, which was speculation up until that point.

I can see Locke becoming a "villain" of sorts: being Magneto to Jack's Professor X - although Locke definately makes a better Prof X, what with all the bald head and wheelchair thing he's got going on.

[VelvetGuru9]

I like your idea about Sun & Jin moving to the 'Glass

But something tells me that the 'Glass is going to sink...
Now what would make you think that? ;)

I'll tell you all this...The producers amy tell you they have no idea where it's going, but after next week's episode, you're going to sit there and smack yourself in the head and say, "I was so far off base on my theories." You'll see that they've known from the get-go where it's been going, but it will blow you away. As far as where they're going to take it from there...I have no clue, but where they'll leave us at is gonna be like Hansel and Gretel in the woods and the breadcrumb trail is gone. But hey! There's a yummy looking candy house, let's go there instead.

[Grinner]

Desmond sees it in his mind. He sees series of events, but that doesn't mean he heas to be there. Remember there was that one time where he had to run through the jungle to save Claire by swimming out in the ocean. He couldn't have been there because he was a decent bit from the shore when he had the vision.

But wasn't Charlie with him when he had the vision? So if Charlie was going to drown saving Claire he would have run back to the beach, just followed by Desmond (in the "Charlie Dies" world) instead of after Desmond (in the "Desmond Saves Charlie" world).

[cattmoe]

Any guesses as to who the father of Claire's baby is (or was it already revealed in another epsiode) ?


They showed him in the first season - he was an artist who was her boyfriend and they were going to get married, but he flaked out at the idea of being tied down and took off. It was Claire's first flashback, if I recall corectly. As near as I can remember, he hasn't been seen since. Now, granted, it's possible it could have been someone else, but they've never given any sign that Claire thought it was anyone's but his.

[Magnito]

Um..what was that?
I am so confused. They left way too much unexplained.

[Superfro]

Um..what was that?
I am so confused. They left way too much unexplained.

As oppossed to usual? ;)

I loved the fact that the flashback was actually a flashforward. (Unfortunately my wife called it though, so it did remove some of the punch of the reveal.) However, I have one major issue. When the other doctor is confronting Jack in the hospital Jack says "Why don't you get my father down here and if I'm drunker than him blah blah blah." The fact that his father would still be alive would be a pretty far stretch from the one shot we had of him up and walking about in the jungle way back in Season 1. I really don't understand that comment.

My guess on the funeral would be Ben.

Honorable mention to Jin and the Leg Sweep of Eventual Death. :p

Upon my initial afterthought though, I actually find it to be a great season finale. Still a bunch of questions, but mostly stuff we've had some info on for a bit now. Unlike last season where 10 new things are thrown at you in one big final episode.

And they pretty much made up for how weak everyone has been all season with a bunch of folks kicking much ### tonight. About damn time!

[VelvetGuru9]

Ohhhhhhhh Snap@!

[mike_houghton]

omg... I am kinda shocked by the flash forward thing. It left me feeling depressed for Jack to see him sink that low. I hope next season isnt an off the island, find their way back thing.

[VelvetGuru9]

Seriously though, I don't think it was Ben at the funeral home. Not in the neighborhood Jack was in. Bernard? I'm not really sure.

The producers have always spoke about time being kind of funny there and it's possible that Christian Sheppard isn't really dead. In the realm of lost I believe that time moves forward and backward but also parallel. It's late though and I need to go get some sleep. I'll check out what everyone else writes about the ending tomorrow.

[mike_houghton]

if it moves forward and backwards... how does penny keep popping up. I dont think time is messed up there. That would make everything a little to confusing. 15 Deaths tonight though. I thought I was watching a cross between 24 and Gilligans Island.
Jack intergating The Professor has Emmy written all over it.

[Thawmus]

Charlie warning Desmond in his last seconds of life? Awesome finale to a character that had been long since annoying.


I'm actually kinda depressed that he's dead now, since he pwned so much this episode.


Hurley running over an Other with the hippie bus? Awesome.


Jin getting a leg sweep of Iraqi neck-breaking death? Awesome.


Jack beating the unholy #### out of Ben? Awesome.


Getting a flash-forward? Awesome.


John and Walt join forces to kick some ###? Awesome.


Sawyer takes no prisoners? ABOUT DAMN TIME!!!!!!!


Us viewers finding out that Ben's actually telling the truth, and that these people off-shore are actually the bad guys? Priceless.


There are some things that Lost can't deliver. But for everything else, there's the Season Finale.








But seriously, it's totally deja vu. Does anyone remember Tom's voice when he was giving the raft dojo a howdy at the end of the first season? Yeah, sounds an awful lot like the guy on the phone, huh? And Charlie's death won't go in vain. Desmond knows now. And he's going to kick the unholy #### out of eyepatch the next time he sees him.

[Komixfrk75]

Us viewers finding out that Ben's actually telling the truth, and that these people off-shore are actually the bad guys? Priceless.




We don't know that he was right...Or are you just judging this by the way Jack is at the end.

[Thawmus]

Us viewers finding out that Ben's actually telling the truth, and that these people off-shore are actually the bad guys? Priceless.




We don't know that he was right...Or are you just judging this by the way Jack is at the end.

I'm judging it by how both Ben and Locke saw fit to have Naomi killed. I'm judging it by the fact that Ben had no reason whatsoever to spare Jin, Sayid, and Bernard at all, but did so anyways. I'm judging it by the fact that Naomi said she was sent by Penny to rescue Desmond, but yet Penny knew nothing about it. I'm judging it by the fact that we have 3 more seasons to go. I'm judging it by the fact that the guy on the phone was insanely serious about knowing where Naomi was. And he did a total Tom routine from the 1st season finale.

[Komixfrk75]

I'm judging it by how both Ben and Locke saw fit to have Naomi killed. I'm judging it by the fact that Ben had no reason whatsoever to spare Jin, Sayid, and Bernard at all, but did so anyways. I'm judging it by the fact that Naomi said she was sent by Penny to rescue Desmond, but yet Penny knew nothing about it. I'm judging it by the fact that we have 3 more seasons to go. I'm judging it by the fact that the guy on the phone was insanely serious about knowing where Naomi was. And he did a total Tom routine from the 1st season finale.


Guess I need to rewatch it some...Or maybe I just don't take the show that serious. I was under the impression Tom just disobeyed Ben's orders.

There was one thing though....Why couldn't Charlie of just swam out the hole in the room. It looked like it was big enough for him to fit thru.

[wonderboy8917]

I thought this was one of the best episodes ever. So many great moments I don't know where to start. I watch this show and then I see all the other #### on tv and I think to myself, why can't every show be this well written and well acted and mind-blowingly awesome? Seriously people, give these guys another Emmy! They deserve it.

Lost gets my vote for Best Drama of the year. Period. Oh yeah, and Matthew Fox for best actor in a tv drama.

[bootkneelee]

Charlie playing th Beach Boys on the keypad reminded me of Towlie playing Funky Towne on South Park

Charlie'd death made me think of Donnie Darko, I say this cause in the movie, Donnie did not have to die and I don't think Charlie had to die, he could have closed the door and locked it from the outside...

And that Russian Dude has more lives than a cat... not really, he's "died" twice now and is still kickin!

[Superfro]

I'm actually kinda depressed that he's dead now, since he pwned so much this episode.

Word. I was thinking the same thing last week and tonight. He became a hell of a lot cooler when he didn't care about anything but his mission. :cool:

[anonym0use]

Guess I need to rewatch it some...Or maybe I just don't take the show that serious. I was under the impression Tom just disobeyed Ben's orders.


This was my impression too. The last few episodes have been about Ben slowly losing control, and this act seemed to be yet another nail in his "leader" coffin.

I was shocked but not surprised by Sawyer shooting Tom - the "Others" had it coming, like Sawyer said "for taking the kid off the raft", for running all over the Survivors of 815... kidnapping people, trying to blow up the raft... etc. I see the Survivors as being pushed to the breaking point.

Heck, even Hurley hulked out! For all you naysayers who wondered what the episode about the dharma bus for I say thee nyah! :p

[anonym0use]

So any guesses as to who was in the coffin?

Aside from "what part of town" the funeral parlor is, and assuming Jack didn't lie when he said he was neither friend nor family, and considering NO ONE came to the funeral who could it be? It would have to be someone worthy of a front page news item - unless they all became psuedo celebrities after their "rescue."

This seems to eliminate Rose and Bernard- I can't see either of their passings as being newsworthy. Likewise, I can't imagine that no one would attend their funeral, or that Jack wouldn't list them as friends. I also don't see either of them getting off the Island, but we'll talk about that later. A billion-million to 1 odds.

Locke is a good choice, as far as having no family goes. And as far as being a friend to Jack goes, I'm thinking their Xavier/Magneto relationship would preclude Jack at this point from calling Locke a friend. If anything, Locke is swiftly becomming an "enemy," if only because he wants to keep everyone on the Island, and Jack wants to get everyone off. Ultimately, I can never picture a reason Locke would leave the Island of his own free will. 100 to 1 odds

Ben is another good choice - I can't imagine anyone attending that schmuck's funeral. 10 to 1 odds

Sawyer? I don't think so. My guess is that Sawyer made it off the Island, and that he's the "he" Kate referred to when she said (something to the effect of) "He doesn't know I'm here/meeting with you." In fact, I can't imagine the authorities just disregarding Kate's criminal past, so she'd either have to stand trial for her crimes, serve time (if applicable) and we all know what a lengthy process the judicial system is - or she could have been granted a pardon (unlikely) or she could be running around with the one guy who knows a lot about blending in, hiding in plain sight and creating false identities: Sawyer. 10,000 to 1 odds.

Claire: Jack's half sister? IIRC the "culprit" was referred to in a masculine tense. I can't see Kate skipping the funeral, although if Kate's "on the lamb" she may not want to be seen with any of the other Island esacapees. Still, Claire, as a native Aussie, would likely not be buried in LA (nor would Desmond, Sun or Jin). 1 billion to 1 odds

Hurley? The coffin was too small, dude. 100,000 to 1 odds

Christian Sheppard? Jack's father would be a stunning revelation, except Jack said he's unrelated to whoever is in the coffin. Plus, Dr. Sheppard is alive and well, and back running the medical ward at the hospital. For those of you naysayers that don't believe he's alive... his name is Christian Sheppard for St. Peters sake - if anybody is allowed to come back from the dead, it will be him. 1 million to 1 odds

Michael? This would be a real twist, better than any of the theories above. Michael has been off the radar for so long, we've kind of forgotten about him - but I can understand Jack's reaction at the funeral home - Michael couldn't be considered a friend or family, and wouldn't look as out of place in that part of town as say, Ben or Locke. My guess is (if it is Michael) he's somehow connected to Naomi & the freighter (maybe he's trying to atone for his murder of Libby and Anna-Lucia) looking for the Island. If it's none of the above, then it must be Michael. Something tells me we haven't seen the last of Michael... 5 to 1 odds

So who was in the coffin?
I say.... No one until they prove otherwise. Unless I see the body, I'm not likely to believe somebody died. In the meantime, I'm guessing it was either Ben or Michael who faked their death to travel back to the Island. 2 to 1 odds.

[anonym0use]

So: It looked like Jack was looking for the Island, and we know he wants to go back. It also looked like he was even more of a tortured soul than ever before (surprise, surprise) and so something must have happened to bring about this turn of events.

Obviously it's been hinted that Naomi's ship is "the enemy." Concluding from the picture she was carrying, we can infer that Naomi had ties to Desmond - but from last night's episode it seemed like Penelope Widemore knew nothing about Naomi. Therefore it's most likely that Naomi's super-rich Military Industrial complex father was looking for the Island: he must have known somehow that Desmond was trapped on it - perhaps through footage taken from the Pearl station of him trapped in the Swan station and transmitted to land via Ben?

What doesn't tie up so well is why Ben is so afraid of these people. My guess: Ben helped carry out the murder of 40+ people on the Island from the Dharma Initiative (people with families, and business connections to the "outside" world), and now the Dharma Initiative holdovers want some serious payback. It only makes sense that Ben would cloak the Island's communications for this reason (breaking it every so often to get information from the mainland). With a shipping freighter so close to the Island, ben must have figured out what was up. What's almost definite is that when the other "others" (from the frieghter) show up, they won't be too happy to find Naomi with a knife in her back.

Why is Jack tormented? I'm guessing because he's a "savior" by nature but wasn't able to lead everyone off the Island. I'm also guessing a few other survivors "bite the dirt" next season (see my post about Bernard and Rose above). It only makes sense that because Jack was able to get off the Island, but was unable to find his way back and free the masses, he was at the point of jumping off the bridge: all because he made a mistake by not trusting Ben or Locke. And really, who could blame him? Ben layered himself in lies and deception to the point where he withheld too much information, cried wolf too many times, and was unable to deliver enough relavent information for Jack to make an informed (not to mention split) decision. Jack had no time to process whatever reasoning Ben was giving, and naturally (as would anybody pushed to the breaking point by the sadistic acts of the others) attempted to rescue everyone. He's the type of person to carry a cross however, and will likely disregard the fact that hindsight is 20/20 and blame himself for not making the "right" decision.

I can also see Jack thinking that if he gets off the Island he can go get help - without thinking through "who" he is actually going to convince to help him find the "Bermuda Triangle" of all Islands. For people in the "real world" Jack's story might be a little hard to swallow: "yeah see, there was a smoke monster, and all these hatches all over the Island, and a pirate ship called the Black Rock, and..." His crazy story paired against enough corporate "Hush" money (they did fake the plane crash wreckage that made everyone thing the survivors of 815 died) might be enough to discredit Jack...

My synopsis of how the next season will play out: We'll open the season with the arrival of the freighter people and continue the "Flash-forward of Jack. We'll still get a few episodes with Flashbacks, but we'll also get the occasional Flash-forward, showing us how Jack sets off to find the Island (perhaps even running into Walt & Michael at some point). In the meantime, we'll see how the frieghter people aren't so friendly and make the lives of the other Survivors hell. We may even have a breakdown of the survivors: some will side with Jack and some with Locke.

Next season's finale will probably reveal how Jack & Kate (& Sawyer & Christian) got off the Island, and simultaneous set them out to find the Island again, to bring the rest of the surviving members of Oceanic 815 home.

The following season will deal with their second arrival on the Island and the hoops they have to jump through (I'm guessing Locke is running the show at this point), and the last season/arc will bring everyone (that wants to come) back to the mainland.

Oh, and Locke and Rousseau should hook up.

[absolutvt69]

I really can't seem to wrap my head around last night's episode. Was the "flash forward" a What If scenario or is it what has come to pass? Have all the events on the island that we've thought were the present actually been one long flashback to the past? I don't know... thinking about the end of this episode makes my head hurt.

[absolutvt69]

Charlie playing th Beach Boys on the keypad reminded me of Towlie playing Funky Towne on South Park



Ha ha I said the same exact thing.

[Frontman]

My head's still reeling with all the twists in this one. Could the Others really be so called "good" guys?

Because if they are, the "ship" people (we don't have a name for them yet) that would make the pretty bad guys, right dude?

806

[Stepper79]

I am think that Charlie may not stay dead. Desmond has the Scuba gear so he can swim around pull Charlie out the window and then revive him on the beach (given that the Island seems to help with the healing)

I agree that the freighter off the coast is the Dharma people looking for some payback, they could have gotten a copy of the picture during Desmonds time in the hatch (from the Kurgan) and then brought it to help ease Desmonds mind about his "rescuers" remember they didn't expect to find the survivors there everyone thinks they are dead.

And How great was the look on Ben face when Locke showed up - he had to be thinking that his time in charge is over and the Locke headed off to become the leader of the remaining "others"

as for what happens next who knows but next February cannot get here fast enough

[AZS]

My head's still reeling with all the twists in this one. Could the Others really be so called "good" guys?

Because if they are, the "ship" people (we don't have a name for them yet) that would make the pretty bad guys, right dude?

806You can have more than 1 group of bad guys.
No matter how often Ben claims to be the good guys, his actions say otherwise. Particularly when he ordered the deaths of the 3 on the beach.
But, he also ordered that the survivors should all be killed (when he sent the attack party to the beach.) and helped kill over 40 of his own people, including his father.

Oh, and for Tom, if anyone on the island deserved retribution other than Ben, it was him. In the first season finale, Sawyer did tell Tom that he'd kill him for kidnapping Walt. It just took this long to follow through.


Couple of points:
I also caught the comment by Jack about 'if his dad is drunker than him...' But wasn't sure what to make of it. Jack was drunk and high on oxycodone.

Early on, I thought I caught an anachronism when Jack was talking on a 'modern' cell phone - a model that only came out in the last year. I thought the prop people screwed up. Guess not.

I was surprised they used Walt again. And I'm fairly sure that it isn't really Walt, but rather the 'smoke monster' aparision thing who was using that form to talk to Locke. And that Locke is pretty much the island's ##### at this point.

Oh, and I don't have any really good guesses about who was in the casket, but I thought that Juliette was a possibility.

[doctor_x]

Wow.
Last nite's episode really delivered.

I wonder though why Charlie just didn't wait for the room to fill with water, and then swim out of the window?
he could have fit.
Did the russian guy get hurt from the blast? he was aweful close!

Also, what did the headline of the newspaper say that Jack read on the plane?

I missed it. That set up the deeper aspect of his fall.

I was shocked that Naomi was killed and that Julliette was legit.

I say that Naomi was from the Dharma Project that has been trying to relocate the island.

No matter now, the entire group dynamic of the Others has changed.
The russian guy knows that Ben has been lying and no longer trusts him.
3 of them are now aligned with the survivors.
7 of them(or more-I lost count!)are dead.

Their ranks are getting spread pretty thin.

I think it's LAME if the producers don't know where the show is heading.
I don't like that 1 bit.

I thought that Locke was going to shoot Jack.

I was glad that Jin, Bernard, & Sayid did not get killed.
My pulse skipped when the time ran out & I heard the 3 shots.

Glad Tom rebelled before getting smoked.

How come certain people(like the russian guy)never stay dead!

I knew he was gonna make it when nobody was smart enough to check his pulse.

[Rokk_Krinn]

15 Deaths tonight though. I thought I was watching a cross between 24 and Gilligans Island.


Or being they're on an island..."10 (15) Little Indians". :grin:

Hoping Charlie makes it somehow but that's mainly because I've pretty solidly enjoyed Dominic's acting. Charlie roughly ties with Jin as my second favourite after Jack. (Holy cow - just realized: Jack, Jin, Charlie...I sound like an alcoholic. :laugh: )

[ClownShoes]

I loved the episode. I was kinda down on Lost mid-season, but as they approached the Finale things really picked up. I was surprised they killed so many "others" on the beach. I know they had it coming for a while but the "Losties" always seem to go soft on them for some reason. This time even Hurly was kicking some tail. Even when they had Tom incapacitated they killed him anyway. I'm not sure how I feel about this, but I can certainly see how they wouldn't want to take chances anymore and are sick of the others messing with them.

On a side note, I see now why Walt was written off the show. He looked like 5 yrs older tonight. I'm not sure about the timeline but it seems like a few months have passed at most.

My question is how many of the others are going to be just fine in spite of neck snaps and gun wounds. I'm assuming cyclops isn't the only one on the island who can take such a beating. Locke apparently does well with bullet wounds. And how many of the others are from Nestor's group (who doesn't age).

[Stepper79]

I found this one in the Lostipedia

The name of the funeral parlor Jack goes to, "Hoffs/Drawlar," is an anagram for "flash forward".

[Frontman]

I betcha we're left to think Charlie is in Davy Jones' locker

807
"Ye spoke my name, Frontman. Ten years before the mast with ye."

Shuddup Jones, unless you want me to pour some salt on you, you lousy slug.

"Aaarg Frontman. That would be nasty, argh."


anyways. I think Charlie might make it out. But if he doesn't, I hope his death isn't in vein, and that not only do the Ship people come, but Penny actually does send a rescue out (which will take a few seasons to get there, but hey; its the thought that counts, right?)

[AZS]

Last summer there was the online 'Lost game' with the youtube clips and the Dharma stuff and all. It explained the numbers, talked about a virus that would wipe out half the world, etc.

And not a single bit of that was touched on this season, or again in secondary means (online, etc.)
So, what was the point of that? I don't even think the numbers came up once this whole season. Seems like something they made a big deal out of, and then just dropped it.

The finale was pretty cool, mostly for the Others getting what was coming to them. But in the grand scheme of the show, this season answered less questions and really acomplished less overall than the first 2 seasons.

[Stepper79]

Well here is a close up of the newspaper, the body is man his name starts with J and he is from new work

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d4/Newspaperclipping2.jpg

[absolutvt69]

On a side note, I see now why Walt was written off the show. He looked like 5 yrs older tonight. I'm not sure about the timeline but it seems like a few months have passed at most.



Yeah you could tell between Season 1 and Season 2 that Walt was hitting a growth spurt that really mucked up the fact that he had only been on the island for a month or two. Of course I guess they could have gone the "magic Island" route and claimed that because Walt was special the island made him grow faster ;-)

The newspaper clipping is interesting although the name could be meaningless. Who's to say it's not a fake name of an already existing character?

Also I'm pretty sure Charlie is dead. EW has an interview with DM and he seems to think it's pretty final. There's always a chance for him to show up in a flashback or vision but as far as a regular I think Charlie is done.

[Stepper79]

Also I'm pretty sure Charlie is dead. EW has an interview with DM and he seems to think it's pretty final. There's always a chance for him to show up in a flashback or vision but as far as a regular I think Charlie is done.


I saw that too but wouldn't it be more fun to run with the Charlie's Dead theme all summer (Ok and fall and most of the winter too :( ) and then he is saved and still on the show??

[AZS]

I think it's pretty much a given that he'll show up in a flashback.
All the other dead characters have.

BTW, Dominic is dating the actress who plays Kate. Go Charlie!

[Superfro]

I saw that too but wouldn't it be more fun to run with the Charlie's Dead theme all summer (Ok and fall and most of the winter too :( ) and then he is saved and still on the show??

After his performance last night, yes, it would be awesome. I have HATED Charlie for most of all 3 seasons. Up until last week when he finally stopped crying, brooding, being confused and accepted his fate. Ironically I started liking him when they were finally going to get rid of him. Then last night he was just 12 kinds of awesome. Then again, they redeemed a lot of folks last night.

[readyeddy?]

How can this be a flash forward if Jack's Dad is working again and apparently still working in an inebriated state?

Also, no matter what the ship turns out to be, I consider Locke to be a cold blooded murderer as of last night.

[hail_eris]

Also, no matter what the ship turns out to be, I consider Locke to be a cold blooded murderer as of last night.
I dunno - I've been operating under the assumption that he shot that cop in the back. The number of named characters on the island who *don't* have blood on their hands is pretty small.

[JackAssterson]

Ok, so the flash forward.

Is it:

What HAS happened following the Losties rescue, and Season 4 will start with the flashbacks of the rescue and the regathering, re-Lostification of the Losties?

A vision of what MAY happen if they leave the island?

Something else?

RIP, Fish Biscuit and Russian Cyclops, two of my favorite characters on the show...though Cyke'll be back. He always comes back. Hee hee hee hee heeeeeeeee.

Was I the only one who half expected a ghostly Michael to float after Walt yelling MY BOY! MY BOY!

[doctor_x]

Well here is a close up of the newspaper, the body is man his name starts with J and he is from new work

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d4/Newspaperclipping2.jpg


Thanks stepper!

I see a J & an O.

I say it's John Locke.

BUT-is this the actual future or a possible 1?

I wish they would have just used flash backs instead of flash forwards.

For every thing that seems to get answered or taken care of, another 1 always gets brought up.

As mentioned, they still haven't solved the mystery of Hurley's #'s or what the Others are actually doing on the island or what Dharma was.

Then they add in Jacob.

:rolleyes: :tired: :confused: :noid:

[anonym0use]

Ok, so the flash forward.

Is it:

What HAS happened following the Losties rescue, and Season 4 will start with the flashbacks of the rescue and the regathering, re-Lostification of the Losties?

A vision of what MAY happen if they leave the island?

Something else?


I think it would be a big leap of faith for the writers/producers of the show to give us a "glimpse" of an alternate timeline - akin to "cheating."

If it was, they can bet on angering a large portion of their audience to the point of dropping the show.

I say what happened last night was real - no visions (unless Desmond was present - which he wasn't).

[Buddyhoss]

I was upset about the way Charlie died. It seemed ridiculous to me that he didn't just get on the other side of the door and shut it. Even if he hadn't been able to close it behind him, Desmond was standing right there with the SCUBA gear, and that large room would've taken FOREVER to fill up at the rate the water was coming in. I didn't have any problem with him dying, I just wish it was more of a necessity-to-save-Desmond-act then a suicidal one.

[sgtppr67]

I was upset about the way Charlie died. It seemed ridiculous to me that he didn't just get on the other side of the door and shut it. Even if he hadn't been able to close it behind him, Desmond was standing right there with the SCUBA gear, and that large room would've taken FOREVER to fill up at the rate the water was coming in. I didn't have any problem with him dying, I just wish it was more of a necessity-to-save-Desmond-act then a suicidal one.
I took it as him realising Desmonds vison was coming true and trying to fullfill his role in saving Claire and the others.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Well here is a close up of the newspaper, the body is man his name starts with J and he is from new work

http://www.lostpedia.com/images/d/d4/Newspaperclipping2.jpg

Hmm...so what's the chance that the dead person's name is Jack? Perhaps there was a case of "mistaken identity" and Jack never cleared it up in the years between "now" and "flash-forward"? That might explain why he was neither friend nor family...

[Magnito]

Here's to hoping that Charlie survived and that Locke was in the coffin (because I have absolutly no interest in his character anymore)

[AZS]

...that large room would've taken FOREVER to fill up at the rate the water was coming in.Actually, with the swim in/swim out pool in the middle of the station, it would have flooded even quicker. The air would have all rushed out the window and the water would have come up from the floor. Desmond would have been hit in the back by a tidal wave (If he wasn't sucked out the portal by the pressure change.)

Maybe Charlie could have closed the door from the outside, I dunno. But the door did have to be closed or they both would have died.

[absolutvt69]

Charlie closed the door and died because Charlie knew that's what had to happen in order for Claire and Aaron to get off the island. He knew he was going to die at some point so it might as well be for the sake of those he loved. Yeah he might have been able to do something to survive but at the risk of messing up Desmond's vision.

[Rokk_Krinn]

That, by the way, is rule #17 of why "psychic powers and visions" are annoying as all gets out - the fear that if you don't go along with them you'll mess up the "foreseen future of others".

Freakin' "plot device" powers...

[anonym0use]

Also intersting to note: Desmond's visions rely on his presence (or at least being close by) to the event that he sees in the future. In the case of Claire's near drowning the group he was with would have eventually gotten to the beach and seen she had drowned - which is why he took off running - because he had seen it (or the aftermath) happen, and he knew he didn't have much time to save her.

I brought up an interesting point just now - Claire must not have drowned in that incident in either case, otherwise Desmond would be following her around like Charlie as her guardian angel...

[anonym0use]

Charlie closed the door and died because Charlie knew that's what had to happen in order for Claire and Aaron to get off the island. He knew he was going to die at some point so it might as well be for the sake of those he loved. Yeah he might have been able to do something to survive but at the risk of messing up Desmond's vision.


I also like to think that Charlie took some solace in the fact that he learned he was an iconic Cobain/Morrison like figure in the Music World... :grin:

[absolutvt69]

Also intersting to note: Desmond's visions rely on his presence (or at least being close by) to the event that he sees in the future. In the case of Claire's near drowning the group he was with would have eventually gotten to the beach and seen she had drowned - which is why he took off running - because he had seen it (or the aftermath) happen, and he knew he didn't have much time to save her.

I brought up an interesting point just now - Claire must not have drowned in that incident in either case, otherwise Desmond would be following her around like Charlie as her guardian angel...

I thought the reason Desmond went after Claire was because Charlie would have drowned saving her. I think you're right, Claire wasn't going to die either way, it was Charlie that Desmond was protecting (and I believe he said as much in one episode).

[Rokk_Krinn]

See? Psychic visions of the future are just more headaches than it's worth for the story. :laugh:

[anonym0use]

I hadn't even given any odds on it being Juliette in the cofin, mostly because I overlooked her as a possibility. Still, I always thought Juliette was an East Coaster somehow, so an LA funeral seems odd. Likewise, she had family on the mainland that would likely attend a funeral for her.

Anyone know offhand if Michael was from LA or not?

[Stepper79]

I hadn't even given any odds on it being Juliette in the cofin, mostly because I overlooked her as a possibility. Still, I always thought Juliette was an East Coaster somehow, so an LA funeral seems odd. Likewise, she had family on the mainland that would likely attend a funeral for her.

Anyone know offhand if Michael was from LA or not?


Looking at the close up of the Article in Jacks hand Juliette is out as the headline reads Man's body found...

Michael was from New York If I remember correctly

[CREED]

That might explain why he was neither friend nor family...Actually didn't Jack say"either"???I loved last night's finale and put me in the Charlie's not dead camp.Desmond is the man and can scuba his way to him-fight that One-eyed Russian Deathbot-and save Charlie.I was thinking Hurley was to be the sacrificial character last night.Sawyer is awesome-Chekov's attitude is really kicking in now that he killed Locke's daddy.Loved the timeslip and saw it for what it was immediately-great stuff!!

[Thawmus]

Just wanted to clear something up, here.....

Ben did indeed give them instructions BEFORE he had his talk with Jack, not to shoot the three men on the beach. That's what Tom's gripe was when they went back to him. He said that Ben had lost it, and regardless of orders, they should have done more than put three bullets into the sand. He was actually pissed that they didn't kill the three of them.

So, I'm trying to figure out what Ben's motivation was for keeping those three alive, and I'm coming up with zilch. If he was up for asking any of the men for permission to use their women, he wouldn't be so heavy-handed in the first place.

The only thing I can come up with is that somehow this threat he faces is so severe that he's resorted to extremism. Which would still make him a bad guy. But probably would shift him a little closer to being a very severe anti-hero.


Frankly, despite what a complete jerk he is, I love Ben as a character. I'm glad they signed on Emerson to be a full cast member, because I think he's a fantastic actor. This guy has one of the best poker faces in the world. He consistently looks like he just saw a ghost, yet at the same time, he's two steps ahead of everyone at all times. Whether he's a villain, hero, or anti-hero, he's just plain awesome. I would have been disappointed to see him die this episode, and I hope he's along for many more seasons to come.

[theanalogkid]

I agree Thawmus. To me, the Others and their story are more interesting than the Losties.

[absolutvt69]

So, I'm trying to figure out what Ben's motivation was for keeping those three alive, and I'm coming up with zilch. If he was up for asking any of the men for permission to use their women, he wouldn't be so heavy-handed in the first place.



How about this... he only wanted Jack to THINK he killed them because he WANTED Jack to assault him and capture him. Why? I have no idea.

As far as who was in the coffin, we know it was a male from New York.

[Grinner]

Also intersting to note: Desmond's visions rely on his presence (or at least being close by) to the event that he sees in the future.

Kind of the point I was trying to make last week.

If I remember the Desmond episode correctly, Desmond doesn't have "psychic visions," he has "Groundhog Day memory." Which would require him to observe what his visions show, because he's remembering them from having lived them before.

[bagman04]

WOW! I just finished watching this. SOOOO many questions.
Quickly, the vision with walt was cool.
Also, if the survivors are okay, then why is kate not in jail? I assume she is still a wanted women.
The coffin could have had James Ford inside as well.
What happened to the other Others?
I still want to know what happened to Michael and Walt. I dont buy the "and they went off into the boat and lived happily ever after" bit.
Also what about Ben?

Link to a screen shot of the obituary in jack's hand
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg

[VelvetGuru9]

We're moving our offices here and today's our last day. There are movers all over the place and things are hectic.

I haven't been able to post too much, but just wanted to quickly say, these are all awesome posts about the season finale. Thanks for the good reading guys

[cattmoe]

Been on vacation and just saw all the posts.... I thought that was a great season finale, even if it didn't answer a lot of questions. Going to be a long wait 'til February!

I'm thinking it was Micheal in the coffin. He's from New York, and he wasn't Jack's friend or family.

[szude]

How about this... he only wanted Jack to THINK he killed them because he WANTED Jack to assault him and capture him. Why? I have no idea.

As far as who was in the coffin, we know it was a male from New York.

He was trying everything in his power to get Jack to not use the phone. The fake shoot was his best option. If Jack didn't give in right there with him, the gunshots would set him off, he knew. And that (by being brought along with the Losties) would give him more time to convince Jack. Which he didn't use, really. :confused:

Count me in as thinking it's Ben in the coffin. It had to be a) someone whose funeral Kate would never go to and b) someone who's death had special meaning to Jack given the context of the state he was in. Within that, Ben's the only one that makes sense. Jack has obviously come around in "the future" and realized it was a mistake to leave, mistake to use the phone, and Ben was right.

[Rokk_Krinn]

I'm still placing my money on it being someone erroneously labeled "Jack Shephard" in the coffin. :)

[Thawmus]

How about this... he only wanted Jack to THINK he killed them because he WANTED Jack to assault him and capture him. Why? I have no idea.

As far as who was in the coffin, we know it was a male from New York.

And that's where I think they go wrong with his character. For as smart as he is, he could easily befriend Jack and the losties to the point where they're all eating out of his hand, and doing whatever he wants them to do.

For some reason, he still wants to leave everything up to choice, which I don't get.

[mike_houghton]

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2007/05/25/tonight-on-bwe-we-interviewed-ben-from-lost/

greatest lost related interview ever, by the end I was in tears literally

[hail_eris]

For some reason, he still wants to leave everything up to choice, which I don't get.
The Judeo-Christian devil works the same way, and no one's ever questioned his tactics...

[mike_houghton]

true dat, its worked this long why buck the system?

[Frontman]

Possible coffin folk:

Sawyer
John Locke
Juliette

To me, I think its Locke. I have a feeling with the elimination of many of Ben's supporters, the Others will turn on him and he'll be forced to join the Survivors. Locke has taken an active role to keep them all on the island, and has all but become an enemy to the Survivors.

Man, Feb 2008 can't get here soon enough.

And I still think Charlie will survive. I don't know why, but I think he'll escape that.

[theanalogkid]

Charlie ain't coming back(except in flashbacks). My wife has many fangirl friends who say that Dom did not want to leave but had to. Sounds like Charlie's death, pointless as it was, will probaly stick.

[Frontman]

Charlie ain't coming back(except in flashbacks). My wife has many fangirl friends who say that Dom did not want to leave but had to. Sounds like Charlie's death, pointless as it was, will probaly stick.

That's why I think he'll be back. ABC/Lost production staff are making a big deal out of his death (even though we don't see a body.)

Methinks a swerve is in the works.

[mike_houghton]

come on no one found the interview funny?

[theanalogkid]

I just do not want major disappointment when he stays dead. I would like for him to come back as he finally started to get interesting, but the producers have said his character had no where to grow and was thus expendable. Their words, not mine, don't flame the messenger.

[theanalogkid]

Yes, Mike the interview was funny.

[wonderboy8917]

come on no one found the interview funny?

The last scene was the best. Great find. :laugh:

[mike_houghton]

yey... i just wanted to share, and made sure people watched it. I didnt mean to sound pushy or whiny

[Grinner]

come on no one found the interview funny?

<holds out lollipop> What interview? I don't see an interview?

[anonym0use]

To me, I think its Locke.

The only reason I don't think it's Locke, is that I can't imagine that Locke would ever leave the Island willingly. Now, *if* Jack were to tranquilize Locke, and drag him off the Island *it* might be part of the reason Jack is ready to kill himself in the season finale - if Jack felt responsible for his death. Imagine a Locke that was brought back to the mainland, lost the use of his legs again, and basically had no life anymore - his Father's dead, he's been ripped away from the one magic place on the planet where he was a hero among the people.... I can see him wanting to end his life if he was taken away from that and couldn't get back. I don't think he would actually commit suicide though. Locke seems determined - enough to get back to the Island any way possible.

But Locke, willingly leaving the Island and ending up in the coffin?

No way.

And while Juliette's death may have driven Jack to the brink (Kate probably wouldn't attend her funeral) it seems like the newspaper clipping that Jack held in his hand mentioned a man. So, either Julie has a really big secret that she's managed to hide this whole time, or it's not her in the coffin.

I still say no one is in the coffin.

And Mike - that was a hilarious interview. Rep for you for pointing it out.

[Thawmus]

http://www.bestweekever.tv/2007/05/25/tonight-on-bwe-we-interviewed-ben-from-lost/

greatest lost related interview ever, by the end I was in tears literally

Emerson is quite simply dah man.

[CREED]

the producers have said his character had no where to grow and was thus expendable. Their words, not mine, don't flame the messenger.

So Charlie trying to start a life with Claire and protect the AntiChrist baby had nowhere to go???Stupid producers no peanut...

[bootkneelee]

yey... i just wanted to share, and made sure people watched it. I didnt mean to sound pushy or whiny


You say that you don't want to sound pushy and or whiny yet you do sound pushy or whiny {not really but I just watched it and Ben rubbed off on me}

It was great, it's like he was doing Ben and laughing on the inside...

Loved It!

Thanks

[Konmel]

I'm sure some of you have seen this already, but a short clip from Comic Con:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/88739.html

[bagman04]

Got it to work, the clip is interesting.

[theanalogkid]

Played fine for me. Thanks for the link.

[JackAssterson]

That looked suspiciously like a time-traveling rabbit.

Which would make that the second-most suspicious looking time-traveling rabbit I've seen this week.

[Wyldstaar]

This clip certainly raises some unusual questions. In addition to being a location of strong electromagnetic anomalies, The Island also appears to be a powerful, but highly localized Temporal Nexus Point. It would certainly explain how Locke's father just popped onto The Island. This appears to be the first concrete example of the TNP exhibiting an ability to travel along the timestream rather than merely through space. We got a hint of it with the Glen Miller Orchestra coming from Sayid's radio. It might also explain why Jacob is not always visible. He could be out of synch with the timestream. The TNP is "the box" that Ben told Locke about.

A Temporal Nexus Point is a locale in which events routinely occur that have a dramatic impact on the entire Universe throughout time. It's used as a plot device in sci-fi, especially tales involving time travel. Most TNP's are not as localized as The Island. They're usually planets with sentient beings on them, like Earth. There are a few examples of localized ones in sci-fi, though. The 'wormhole' on Star Trek: DS9 would be one. The Cardiff Rift on Doctor Who would be one as well.

[ReZourceman]

Well I bought Season 3, as I hadnt watched most of it.

Ill get the bad out of the way first, and Im not sure if this is only me, but LOST on the whole is soooo boring. For the majority of the season nothing happens, and the flash backs are extremely boring and dont amount to anything. Some of them are good (Juliettes, Charlies greatest hits) but not most of them. It seems that you can skip the entire middle chunks of both Season 2 and 3, and just watch the last 30 seconds of each episode and then the last 6th of the seasons.

Anyway, thats the bad. The good - The last 3 episodes of Season 3 kicked arse and took names. Charlies character finally turned uberly sweet, Desmond was as awesome as usual. Ben is still uberly sinister.

I didnt even understand the Flash Forward at first....I thought they were hinting that Jack and Kate were bro and sister, and thats why Jack said he loved Kate a few episodes back, but then obviously I realised what it was, which was cool.

Eye patch McGee is awesome. Locke is evil now? Hmmm sure seems like an ###.

Oh....one more bad. The Jacob bit. That was just horrible.

Juliettes super fit.

I REALLY hope that Season 4 will be as good as the good episodes, because the bad episodes of LOST really sour the rest of it IMHO.

But, I look forward to it greatly.

[Wyldstaar]

Where did you just buy Season Three? It hasn't been released on DVD yet. Is it a bootleg or something?

[anonym0use]

Where did you just buy Season Three? It hasn't been released on DVD yet. Is it a bootleg or something?


I'm going to guess and say it's available in the U.K., but not stateside.

[Wyldstaar]

I'm going to guess and say it's available in the U.K., but not stateside.

Apparently so. I just went to the UK version of Amazon.com, and sure enough, they've got it available for immediate purchase. Odd..

[wonderboy8917]

Maybe the states version will have different bonus features, which might be the cause for the delay.

[cattmoe]

Anyone heard any info at all lately? I'm itching for a Lost fix....

[anonym0use]

Anyone heard any info at all lately? I'm itching for a Lost fix....


Wait until after the writer's strike...:nervous:

[mike_houghton]

lol Lost Season 4... Lost :(

[cattmoe]

Actually, I think they've already filmed all or most of season 4, so things should be ok.... :ermm:

[mike_houghton]

how is that possible.... and we still have to wait until Jan/Feb... and where are the spoilers. Also how come Heroes didnt film ahead of time.

[JackAssterson]

Actually, I think they've already filmed all or most of season 4, so things should be ok.... :ermm:

They have eight episodes written, with no more on the horizon. Currently the decision is being made on whether or not to go with the half-season or completely delay the whole works until next year when, presumably, the strike will be resolved. The producers are leaning towards the latter.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/833/833445p1.html

how is that possible.... and we still have to wait until Jan/Feb... and where are the spoilers. Also how come Heroes didnt film ahead of time.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/834/834359p1.html

[mike_houghton]

They will anger a bunch of people if they delay it.... :p I wish they would stop being so stingy and hand over some money to the people who make them the money :P

[JackAssterson]

They will anger a bunch of people if they delay it.... :p I wish they would stop being so stingy and hand over some money to the people who make them the money :P

It's complicated. The whole issue revolves around how much writers should be compensated for things a lot of execs are still grappling to understand, let alone calculate worth for-- DVD and the Internet are the future, and this whole she-bang is essentially about trying to put fair value on what is, at least right now, an intangible.

[mike_houghton]

lol yeah.. but damn are they getting anything on the back end... I always thought that was were the money was now was DVD sales and Online downloads as well as syndication

[Stepper79]

I heard Kevin Smith explain it the other day, basically when the last contract was written the writers gave alot on Video since the medium was new and they wanted it to succeed (they get maybe $.02 for ever dollar in video/DVD sales) now that it has taken off they want fair compensation.

add to that that the networks have basically done away with the rerun (Heroes is a great example) there were very few network reruns last season, but you could watch it on the internet or Itunes (at the time) but the writers don't get paid for those shows they only get paid for actual tv airings or re-runs/syndication but the networks are charging advertisers to run commercials during those online viewings so they are making money and the writers are being skipped because the current contract does not address the internet.

Heroes and lost give great examples of why they don't shoot them all up front, sometimes things don't work.

Remember last season on Lost the two "new" losties guy and girl con artists, well they were supposed to have a long drawn out story taking place over several episodes well everyone hated them so the writers changed the upcoming shows and they wrote them off real quick.

[mike_houghton]

well heroes is shown on G4 now.. does that count towards them? And isnt Lost going to be too ?

[Stepper79]

well heroes is shown on G4 now.. does that count towards them? And isnt Lost going to be too ?


I would guess so

[Madroxbox]

Remember last season on Lost the two "new" losties guy and girl con artists, well they were supposed to have a long drawn out story taking place over several episodes well everyone hated them so the writers changed the upcoming shows and they wrote them off real quick.

They didn't even really feature them much until the episode they were killed off in.

In most shows, 8 episodes might be ok for a season. But in Lost, 8 episodes is not enough to tell much of anything. I'm guessing the highlight will be how they do or do not get onto the ship. My vote is they will not.

It was a tough blow when they went down to 16 or 18 episodes, I can't remember which it was. 8 episodes is really depressing. How old is the actor who plays Walt going to be by the end of the series???

[cattmoe]

They have eight episodes written, with no more on the horizon. Currently the decision is being made on whether or not to go with the half-season or completely delay the whole works until next year when, presumably, the strike will be resolved. The producers are leaning towards the latter.

http://tv.ign.com/articles/833/833445p1.html



http://tv.ign.com/articles/834/834359p1.html


Well... crud. I could've sworn I read somewhere that they filmed the entire season already in anticipation of the strike, but, looking back on that, the writers would've had to have been awfully accomodating. That's terrible news.... eight episodes is basically that mini-season liek last year, no more than a tease. If season four gets delayed for a year - man, that would just be awful. Potentially enough to kill the show, and if we never found everything out... well, I'd be mad. And it takes a lot to really get under my skin. :angry:

[JackAssterson]

It's not new episodes, but there's going to be a new mini-webisode up every Monday for a while.

Check out the first one at:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/

[cattmoe]

Huh... good catch. Where do you hear about this stuff?! I literally haven't heard anything about the show since last season's finale....

[JackAssterson]

From AICN:

ABC will begin airing new fourth-season episodes of “Lost” Jan. 31.

Many speculated fresh “Lost” might remain lost until next fall in the event of a long strike. ABC's move to schedule "Lost" at midseason defies the preferences of showrunners Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, who did not think the last episode of “Lost” scripted before the writers’ strike made for the best of season finales.

Locke, Hurley, Kate, et al will be taking up regular residence away from Wednesday night for the first time. They’ll now be replacing the incorrigible Dr. McSteamy & Co. by inheriting the “Grey’s Anatomy” timeslot at 9 p.m. Thursday (where they are certain to crush NBC’s “Celebrity Apprentice”).

[cattmoe]

From AICN:


I don't know whether to be disappointed or not... I'm itching for the new season, but I'd hate for it to be incomplete because of the strike. :(

[readyeddy?]

I still wonder why no one has reacted to Jack's reference to his apparently very much alive dad in that flash forward.

[cattmoe]

I still wonder why no one has reacted to Jack's reference to his apparently very much alive dad in that flash forward.

It didn't surprise me, to be honest with you. I've suspected that he's not only alive but somehow involved with the Others since about midway through Season 2.

[anonym0use]

Why would Jack's father would still be alive?

He's been seen walking around the Island.

But that doesn't mean much when you consider the appearances of the elder Dr. Sheppard on the island can be chalked up to "Smokey" the ghost-monster/security system that has also impersonated Eko's brother, Kates horse, and possibly Hugo's imaginary friend, among others. So what other evidence is there that Jack's Dad is still around? 1.) Among the wreckage of flight 815 the survivors found an empty coffin - not hard evidence in and of itself, but definite foreshadowing of the good doctor's fate. If the writer's wanted the audience to believe he was dead, there would have been a body in or nearby the pine box.

2.) Jack mentions his father in an "alive" state during the Flash Forward episode.

Neither one of the above are hard evidence - the body could have fallen out of the coffin into the jungle and been lost, and Jack was doped up at the time he mentioned his dad, so he could have been hallucinating. Still, from a storytelling aspect, there's a couple of issues that could easily be resolved by the sudden reappearance of Dr. Sheppard:

Jack has obvious unresolved issues between himself and his father. For Christian Sheppard to be alive allows for some sort of closure to their relationship.

Jack doesn't know Claire is his sister. While it could eventually be determined by DNA evidence, (or by the comprehensive files the others have on the survivors) the easy reveal for this is to have Dr. Sheppard pop up at one point and for both Claire and Jack to simultaneously say "Dad?!" then look at each other in shock and surprise.

So, provided the writer's intend for Jack's papa to be around, how were they able to fake his death? To believe that Jack's father is still alive the Lost writers *seem* to have to really stretch the laws of "Lost" reality - after all, we saw Dr. Sheppard all pale and green-like in the morgue, which is pretty solid evidence that he's not actually up and walking around the Island.

An argument could be made that he's alive thanks to the Island's healing powers - it cured Rose's Cancer, let Locke walk again, and apparently has helped Mikhael recover from a near fatal (if not *completely fatal*) sonic wall.

So perhaps the Island can resurrect the dead. The only problem with this theory as is: no one else has been resurrected (yet!): not Boone, not Shannon, etc. Perhaps there is some "clause" of the Island's healing properties that prevents people like Boone and Shannon (who died on the Island) from being resurrected, whereas Christian was brought to the island (already dead). While there is a possibility that the Island brought him back to life, it seems unlikely at this point without any precedent to reference.

Another theory could be that Jack's dad was never dead, but perhaps faked his own death or had his own death faked for him. This seems to be an outlandish conspiracy theory at first, but starts to make sense in the big picture of things.

Why would Dr. Sheppard fake his death? In short, he was washed up, and wanted a second chance. There's two possibilities. 1 is that he was recruited by Ben. Ben's people (I'm hesitant to call them the Dharma Initiative since Ben's "purge") have a history of recruiting morally ambiguous characters to their cause, and the Island has a way of remaking the people that land on it (Locke is a prime example of someone who got a new lease on life).

A medical doctor of Christian Sheppard's caliber would certainly have been a welcome addition to the Other's team of misfit & quasi-mad science researchers. Christian fits the Dharma profile - having lost his job in a matter of some disgrace, Christian may have signed on with the Dharma holdovers as a way to redeem himself. It doesn't seem likely that he was picked by Ben however, as then they wouldn't have needed Jack to operate on Ben.

The Second possibility is that Dr. Sheppard was recruited by the Dharma/Hanso remnants who were seeking the Island. This is pure speculation, but would explain why we haven't seen Jack's dad on the Island, and why Dr. Sheppard didn't do Ben's surgery. It's even possible that Christian Sheppard was slated to do the surgery in some kind of bizarre hostage-swap scenario. If the Hanso people don't know where the Island is but they knew Ben needed to leave the Island for surgery, they may have had a boat waiting with Dr. Sheppard on it - in exchange for the Island's coordinates - something which Ben has been painstakingly hiding (to the point of lying to his own people that the Looking Glass had sunk.

Regardless of who Jack's dad is working for, I contend that he was in Australia to meet with some faction of the Dharma/Hanso people, and that his visit to see Claire was secondary. I think he knew that when he signed on with the "others" Dr. Sheppard wouldn't be coming back to civilization any time soon and wanted to part on good terms with what little family he had left. While he was in Australia he was either willingly or forcefully sedated, and after fooling the authorities of his death set out for the Island.

It is too hard to believe that the Plane Crash was part of the faked death scenario, or even a cover-up. The audience has learned (through reaction footage) that the Others did not deliberately cause the crash of flight 815, but rather it happened by chance that the plane his "body" was on went down on the Island - a convenient occurrence to say the least.

Regardless, for the writers to make me believe that Dr, Sheppard's death was faked they'd have to set up a means, and perhaps a precedent.

With Locke's dad (the Man From Tallahassee), the writers have shown that it's possible to bring someone over from the mainland through means of force. Juliette was doped up when they brought her over too, to the point where she was near comatose.

Faking Christian Sheppard's's death would be relatively easy then, considering...the Island has a creature capable of producing a super-sedative, described to the audience by Artz, the high school teacher in the episode that saw Nikki and Paulo PARALYZED.

I contend that the the Medusa Spider's venom could have been used in Juliette's sedative, as part of the tranquilizer that the others have used to take out the Survivors on numerous occasions, and to fake Dr. Sheppard's death. According to Artz the spider was uncatalogued, which means mainland physicians may not have been aware of the poison/paralysis effect. If Nikki and Paulo's bitten condition could fool the Survivors, then it's possible a drugged up Dr. Sheppard could have fooled the Coronors (if they weren't bought off outright) and even Jack.

So, provided that Jack's old man isn't dead where is he? Is he on another Island (like the one the Polar Bear cages are on?), or is he on Naomi's Freighter with the rival other's - the Hanso/Dharma people that Ben is afraid are ready and waiting to take back the Island?

If I can guess the pacing of the storyline, we won't find out for sure if Dr. Sheppard is really alive until next season's finale, when we learn that he's the one that's been pulling the strings on Naomi's freighter...

[Truffle Shuffle]

It's not new episodes, but there's going to be a new mini-webisode up every Monday for a while.

Check out the first one at:

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/

:( This only makes me want to see it more!

[Stepper79]

OOH totally forgot about the missing pieces stuff.

Anyway saw an ad for the Lost return in feb and noticed two things 1) - the ad says someone arrived to "rescue" them in Jan 2008 2) in the final shot with the Island the reflection of the Island is a city

has anyone else seen this and what do we think it could mean

[Truffle Shuffle]

No, but it sounds interesting. Weren't we slotted for at least two more seasons? I didn't think this was supposed to be the last.

[Stepper79]

No, but it sounds interesting. Weren't we slotted for at least two more seasons? I didn't think this was supposed to be the last.


at least two more but the writers strike has thrown that off

[CustomCreator]

I don't know if Lost will last two more seasons. I think ABC has shot themselves in the foot here. The reason TV shows maintain high ratings is because people get into the habit of watching them. By delaying the new episodes 4-6 months later than all the other new shows, people are getting out of the habit of watching Lost. It's the best-written show ABC has had since...well, ever, really. And they're pissing it away.

[cattmoe]

I don't know if Lost will last two more seasons. I think ABC has shot themselves in the foot here. The reason TV shows maintain high ratings is because people get into the habit of watching them. By delaying the new episodes 4-6 months later than all the other new shows, people are getting out of the habit of watching Lost. It's the best-written show ABC has had since...well, ever, really. And they're pissing it away.

I see what you're saying, but I think they've built a solid enough story that people are going to come back. This show has a core audience that wants to know what happens and will come back despite delays.

That being said, I think this writer's strike thing is going to hurt a lot. Same for Heroes - it won't be back on at all until the strike is over, so next September at the absolute earliest.

[Stepper79]

won't be back on at all until the strike is over, so next September at the absolute earliest.


IF we are lucky they are predicting that if this strike lasts until March that the 2008 TV season will basically be done as well. Since there will not be enough time to do things right. I have heard that the writers are now attempting to negotiate with the studios directly (Instead of the Committee) so it will be interesting to see which one buckles 1st (my bet is NBC)

[anonym0use]

I saw a preview last night... It seems that they have several episodes in the can. It may help them boost ratings if the strike continues - by providing a sorce of fresh material.

And, I just want to mention: Jack's dad is alive!

[Stepper79]

I saw a preview last night... It seems that they have several episodes in the can. It may help them boost ratings if the strike continues - by providing a sorce of fresh material.

And, I just want to mention: Jack's dad is alive!


From What I have heard there are 8 episodes in the can and that is all we are going to get for now

[anonym0use]

From What I have heard there are 8 episodes in the can and that is all we are going to get for now


Well, let me do the math...

8 is > 0

so I'm okay with that. :p

[anonym0use]

Taken from this thread (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3217150).

Jack Sheppard:
Range: 4
Team Ability: Losties
Rank: Experienced
Points: 65
Keywords: Scientist, Survivor, Alcoholic
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal
89162
89152
710151
79141
68141
KOKOKOKO

Powers:
:m-boot:
CHARGE
We can work this out: (Special Power) Jack treats all adjacent opposing figures as friendly figures.

:a-fist:
Medicine Bag (INCAPACITATE):
The Good Sheppard: (Special): Jack may use Leadership. If a Leadership roll results in a 1 or 2, subtract an action from Jack's force for the rest of the turn.

:d-normal:
Survivor (Toughness)
Singleminded (WILLPOWER)

:g-starburst:
Live Together or Die Alone (SUPPORT)
Hypocratic Oath: (Special Power) Jack can use Support. He may choose to use Support as normal, or may choose to deal damage to a friendly figure equal to his support roll. The choice must be made before the die roll.

Team Ability: Losties
At the beginning of an action in which two friendly members of this team are adjacent to each other, you may give one of those characters a power action and deal 1 pushing damage to it. This damage may not be reduced by Willpower or any power that reduces damage, nor can it be dealt to another figure. The other adjacent, friendly character is healed of 1 damage.

[Stepper79]

So the Actor who played ECKO is signed on to play Roadblock in the new GI Joe movie

[JackAssterson]

So the Actor who played ECKO is signed on to play Roadblock in the new GI Joe movie

I thought he left 'cause he wanted better roles or sumpin'.

[Grinner]

I thought he left 'cause he wanted better roles or sumpin'.

He left because his parents died and he wanted to make an independent film about their life. Apparently he either a) finished the film or b) needs money for it :laugh:

[anonym0use]

Speaking of leaving - given the precedent set by the 2 characters who were busted with DUIs - will we lose another Lostie thanks to another DUI? (http://defamer.com/hollywood/that-damned-island/daniel-dae-kim-latest-lost-dui-casualty-315139.php)

[Grinner]

Okay, call me dense (or just completely out of touch), but when do new episodes start again?

[bagman04]

Thursdays @ 9. Tomorrow is the season premier.

[cattmoe]

Thursdays @ 9. Tomorrow is the season premier.

Season premiere is the 31st... next Thursday.

[bagman04]

Damn! My night sucks!

[cattmoe]

Sorry bagman. I wish it had been last night too, beleive me. I'm already depressed abotu the season being cut in half.... I wonder how this will affect the DVD set next year? Will it just be a very small one? :ermm:

[bagman04]

I really really really hate unions. Bunch of Lost hating commies.

[bagman04]

One day left!!!

[Thawmus]

Well, you can count me among the confused-to-hell fans.

What are they showing tonight that's so spankin' brand new?

And TV.com just says that tomorrow night is a recap of the other 3 seasons.

I thought we were getting new episodes???

WTF???? :angry:

[cattmoe]

Well, you can count me among the confused-to-hell fans.

What are they showing tonight that's so spankin' brand new?

And TV.com just says that tomorrow night is a recap of the other 3 seasons.

I thought we were getting new episodes???

WTF???? :angry:


I'm pretty sure tonight's episode is the recap... they always do a special recap right before starting a new season.

Tommorrow night is definitely the season premiere.

I've heard that not everyone gets rescued.... anyone want to take bets on who gets off the island and who doesn't? Clearly Claire does since Desmond saw it, and for obvious reasons I'll bet on Jack and Kate too. Maybe Hurley, and I would think Jin and Sun would want to pretty badly with the baby and all. I wouldn't be surprised to see many of them join up with Locke and decide to stay, though.

[Thawmus]

I'm pretty sure tonight's episode is the recap... they always do a special recap right before starting a new season.

Tommorrow night is definitely the season premiere.

I've heard that not everyone gets rescued.... anyone want to take bets on who gets off the island and who doesn't? Clearly Claire does since Desmond saw it, and for obvious reasons I'll bet on Jack and Kate too. Maybe Hurley, and I would think Jin and Sun would want to pretty badly with the baby and all. I wouldn't be surprised to see many of them join up with Locke and decide to stay, though.
http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index

That's the official website.

If you look on the left pane, they say that tonight is a "Special". Which basically means, they're showing the season finale for last season, with tooltips! Hooray! :tired:

So tomorrow night, they have a recap episode, and THEN they have the season premiere right after it.

This stuff just annoys me to no end. How hard is it to have your episode schedule more accessible than this? You'd think they'd be smart enough to try to improve the amount of viewers tomorrow night. :rolleyes:

Guess they need writers for everything..... :noid:

[Superfro]

Tonight is the final episode of Season 3 with "all new features". I have no idea what the hell that means. (Although I've heard it's suppossed to have pop-up facts and such.) Whatever.....:rolleyes:

Tomorrow night is a 1 hour recap special, and then the new episode is on at 8pm Central.

[bagman04]

I imagine Sawyer would be eager to leave.

[Superfro]

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=index

That's the official website.

If you look on the left pane, they say that tonight is a "Special". Which basically means, they're showing the season finale for last season, with tooltips! Hooray! :tired:

So tomorrow night, they have a recap episode, and THEN they have the season premiere right after it.

This stuff just annoys me to no end. How hard is it to have your episode schedule more accessible than this? You'd think they'd be smart enough to try to improve the amount of viewers tomorrow night. :rolleyes:

Guess they need writers for everything..... :noid:

Actually it's pretty easy to understand if you see it as the ploy it is. They want people to watch all 4 hours, when really most people only care about the 1. ;)

[hail_eris]

Actually it's pretty easy to understand if you see it as the ploy it is. They want people to watch all 4 hours, when really most people only care about the 1. ;)
Heck, Fox gets people to watch an entire season of bad karaoke, when all that really matters is the last two minutes of the American Idol finale...

[Stepper79]

Wow its been over for an hour and no comments I even missed the start and had to rewind the tivo...

Interesting episode, I really find this flash forward stuff much more confusing.

So according to Hugo six made it off the island

Jack
Hugo
Kate
someone who died yet no one went to the funeral
???
???

I am just sad there are only 7 more episodes left

[bagman04]

Here you go chief: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=221947

It is also underneath this thread.

[TMNT99]

???

I am just sad there are only 7 more episodes left

Wah? what do you mean?

[Stepper79]

Wah? what do you mean?


this season, but they moved the thread click on the link above

[CarlosMucha]

Jack and his wife were in the middle of a divorce when Sarah started seeing another guy. So technically, she wasn't cheating on him - they were already separated.


Are you absolute CRAZY?!!!!

that IS cheating!


@ Thawmus - yup, you are right. Just read the recap of that episode. Mah bad. Boo to Sarah!


Edit: oh, sorry lol.