TV Cartoon Battles: Super-Heavyweight Division: Round 1, Match 2

[DTM]

Uber Magical God vs Uber Magical Warrior. While Oberon still leads He-Man, and thus far will advance to Round 2, the voting is still somewhat close and with days left to this match, it could still be anyones fight.

Now without further adieu, allow me to present your next battle in a BRAND NEW (Actually unless youre from Mars, these are pretty old hat by now) type of Tournament Of Champions:


TIAMAT (DUNGEONS & DRAGONS)


VS.


SUPERION (TRANSFORMERS)


As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them AND/OR routinely used in their shows, to fight in a Large area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.

Randomly Chosen Area:


New Millenium City - A large, modern city, full of gleaming steel, and polished marble skyscrapers. High speed train tracks, suspended in the sky, whisk it's industrious population from building to building. Perfectly manicured parks are nested at the feet of gleaming edifices to modern design.
(Inspired by: Superman TAS, Transformers (ie, Cybertron) and similar shows)


Thanks all, and enjoy.

And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.

ALSO, please do your best to respect everyones votes, reasonings and opinions here. If you believe your character should win, but doesnt in the end, dont hold grudges against the character that beat yours, or call the votes that allowed this to happen "fanboy" arguments or plain and simply wrong. We all have our own way of thinking and voting here, with each one of our thoughts and ideas as valid as your own. Lets do what we can, even in the heat of an argument, to respect that. Thanks.


TV CARTOON TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS Part 4


ROUND 1

He-Man vs. Oberon: Oberon
Tiamat vs. Superion: ??????

[DTM]

Tiamat (Dungeons & Dragons) – Tiamat is the Queen of all evil dragons in the realm of Dungeons and Dragons. This Gigantic 5 headed dragon has immense power and intellect, and she can breath multiple breath weapons of fire, cold, poison gas, lightning and acid ooze (each seperately or all at once) to devastating effect, in addition to flight, and vast physical and magical durability. Queen of the most powerful race of creatures in her world, and the only being in the D&D universe Venger fears, its no wonder Tiamat is one of the most powerful beings in her entire realm.


Superion (Transformers) - Superion is a fierce and frightful fighting machine. As the collective consciousness of the five Aerialbots, Air Raid, Skydive, Fireflight, Slingshot and Silverbolt, he might find it confusing and unproductive to assimilate each of his component personalities into one. Therefore, he suppresses much of what is potentially more than he can handle and directs his thinking to one primary purpose: the destruction of the Decepticons. And that's about all he's good for. Little else interests him; he's unlikely to even engage in conversation about anything else. The other Autobots take this to be a cold and aloof attitude, as if Superion held himself above them. In truth, it is the most Superion can give of himself.

Abilities: Superion can fly at speeds up to 800 mph. His range is 5800 miles. His strength is formidable; he can demolish a battleship with one blow. The stress fracture cannon he carries shoots a beam that locates and then overloads the natural fracture lines in any object it hits. The result can be anything from cracking open a peanut shell to causing a small earthquake.

Weaknesses: Superion finds it difficult to adapt to new situations and to be innovative. His thought processes are too primitive to allow for such higher mental functions. This often restricts him in battle. Although incredibly strong and resistant to most artillery and beam weapons, he does have certain "pressure points"- areas of structual weakness where one component Aerialbot connects to the next- that are particularly vulnerable to attack.

[The Red Baron]

I want to vote for Superion i really do and if it wasnt for his weak points i would, but with the premtach down load Taimat will know were to hit exactly.

[DTM]

Im voting for Tiamat.

Tiamat is pretty much the most powerful being in all of D&D (Cartoon Wise), save for Dungeon Master. She is amazingly smart, and incredibly tough (magically and physically). She is the one being in her world, again save DM, that Venger alone cannot defeat. Her 5 magical breath weapons, which she can use seperately in 5 different directions, or all at once, will cause MAJOR damage to a character which is not used to such magical attacks. (and Superion is not even close to the experienced battle hardened and wise solider Prime was against Skeletor, and even then Prime barely took the win)

In fact, according to his own bio, he doesnt handle new situations very well (like this TOC), and his thought processes are slow, which the very intelligent Tiamat will take advantage of. Not to mention, his weak points, which Tiamat will know of as well.

Superion is POWERFUL, but hes not going to defeat Tiamat near more than not.

My Vote - Tiamat

[Avatar Jack]

From what I have seen of Superion, he has one useful talent: making things die. To that extent, he is unbelieveablely fast, extreme strong and tough (despite his weak points) and has a massivily powerful cannon with amazing range. He's no push-over, and aould very well be a waterloo for alot of fighters here. I'm not voting yet, I am just giving Superion some props (I know he is... slow, but he can adapt enough to defend himself).

[The Red Baron]

well i got a me a question if that gun of his can break fracture lines couldnt it destory all of taimats scales rendering him very defenseless

[jedah_s]

imo this part of his write up sums up the fight for me....

"Therefore, he suppresses much of what is potentially more than he can handle and directs his thinking to one primary purpose: the destruction of the Decepticons. "

tiamat isn't his primary concern... or won't be until she's on top of him spewing acid and lightning.

tiamat for the win. (everyone runs from tiamat)

[The Red Baron]

well i think after the download that taimat will become his primary concern

[Goose]

*edit* double post

[Goose]

Tiamat is the god of all evil dragons, this fight isnt even close. She wins this fight, rends that transformer into scrap.

[Magnito]

With that load of weapons, power, duribility, intelligence and flight, how could she not win. My vote...
TIAMAT

[Rokk_Krinn]

Well, the cartoon never contradicted Tiamat having magical abilities either, so she is a mage and cleric (granting the spells to herself) of moderate means. That's another power to her advantage.

[Grinner]

Add me in for the very intelligent and powerful super-dragon over the slow-thinking non-adaptable robot.

Tiamat to round 2.

[Teron_Gorfiend]

With Superion's range he could just shoot her standing still. Or fly circles around her. Either way the buildings probably wouldnt be much of a factor in this fight.

Superion's power and speed make him more then capable then taking out this lizard.

Vote:Superion

[ca551u5]

All praise to the Chromatic Dragon! Glory to the Queen of Evil Dragonkind!

Talk about your rout, Superion is SOOOO outclassed here its not funny. She'll unload her breath weapons from all five heads, and laugh as the acid and lightning shred Superion. Then she'll rant and tear apart the city upon discovering there's no soft crunchy meat inside.

Oh, and soft matter, like a living creature, doesn't have stress lines for Superion's cannon to target.

[Maximcards]

Superion will win with his weapon of mass destruction.

[DTM]

Originally posted by The Red Baron
well i got a me a question if that gun of his can break fracture lines couldnt it destory all of taimats scales rendering him very defenseless

From the sound of it it doesnt sound like its made to work on living beings, more of a desintergrator beam for inorganic objects.

[DTM]

Tiamat - 6 votes
Superion - 2 votes

TRB, while you have posted here a few times I dont think youve given a clear vote as yet, so I havent marked you down for either. Feel free to do so when you are more sure, and your vote will be counted.

[MSU]

Count another me in for another vote for Tiamat...I think she outclasses Superion in so many different ways that she will definately defeat the robot more 50% of the time.

[Maniac_nmt]

Demolish a battleship in one hit? In the New Millenium City? Superion kicks the snot out of Tiamat.

[Rokk_Krinn]

So, if Tiamat can cast the equivalent of "improved invisibility" (I.E. - magical invisibility - not infra-red sensible, for example - and not dispersed by attacking) how does Superion even target her before she tears into him?

Vote: Tiamat

[Maniac_nmt]

If all else fails, Superion drops a few massive sky scrappers on Tiamat, tieing her up, then closes in and pummels the hell out of her. Dragon or no, it can't take a beating from a bot that can demolish a battleship in one punch.

Where as MANY Transformers have attacks similar to most of Tiamat's breath weapons, and yet Superion still kicks the carp out of them.

[The Red Baron]

before i vote can anyone give examples of what taimats done

[Paradox Factor]

Well, as her bio said, each of her heads has a breath weapon. Also, she can fly. She is incredibly large, easly bigger than Superion. I don't recal much of her on the cartoon, but D&D dragons are very intelligent, so Superion is at a major disadvantage since his battle plan is "shoot it until it stops moving". Also as stated above, D&D dragons have spellcasting abilities, so her options aren't limited to just blasting Sup with his breath weapons, or engaging in bite and claw attacks. My vore goes to Tiamat.

[ca551u5]

At any rate, even if she can't cast spells, Tiamat is superhumanly strong. As in she can rend plate steel like paper, smash concrete and stone into dust.

The best image for this battle is a Kaiju movie. She's Gojira, Superion is some mecha sent to stop her. And Gojira doesn't lose, neither will Tiamat.

[The Red Baron]

well i dont see any reason the stress cannon wont work on organic things if the have fracture lines, that said superion can shoot the scales and he could hit a head which would kill it because skulls are fused together bones with fracture lines that never totally go away even after the bone is fused, so my vote is superion

[ca551u5]

At no point in Transformers did we see the fracture cannon breaking internal structures. It cracked open armour and hulls, but never did it damage the superstructure of anything it shot.

At any rate, breaking the skull with the fracture cannon won't kill the head, the punch he delivers after will. Assuming he connects, if he's still alive! If it does go to close combat, Superion has to worry about 9 appendages, five heads, and four limbs, sinceTiamat has a marked preference for fighting on the wing. She'll rip him to pieces, limb by limb.

[deadalus13]

I don't see how Superion can win. Ignore Tiamat's breath weapons, which are nothing like attacks used by Transformers because they are magical in nature, and just look at the basic scenario.
Imagine two opponents are "poofed" into an arena, given knowledge of their opponents, and are forced to fight each other. Both contestants are very powerful. One of the contestants is not very smart, can't adapt well to new situations, and will not utilize the information the are given wisely because of these limitations. The other one is incredibly intelligent and will utilize the knowledge gained from the download as effectively as possible. Which of the two do you think would win?

My vote: Tiamat

[Prof. Aragorn]

Yikes, that combination of acid, fire, poision, and ice breath should crack Superion's shell, add to that immense strength, and cunning tied in with lots of magic spells and the one-dimensional transformer is out.

[supergoblin]

Ca55 I'm going to have correct on taimat's appendge number. She fights with ten appendges, 5 heads, 4 limbs, and a tail.

Taimat for the win, there just too many threats to the transformer to deal with at once.

[punisher_86]

I honestly think that Tiamat would win in this match up for one reason, she is a deity in most of the D&D settings and therefore infinitely more powerful that any robot or robots. Except for Optimus Prime :grin:

[Rando]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Well, the cartoon never contradicted Tiamat having magical abilities either, so she is a mage and cleric (granting the spells to herself) of moderate means. That's another power to her advantage.

If this is true then Tiamat destroys Superion like a child, the magnitude of powers that that gives Tiamat access to is utterly terrifying. Otherwise Tiamat should still win this in a difficult battle due to her intelligence, as well as Superion's lack thereof. I'll also note that if Tiamat is like her first edition equivalent then she is probably just immune to attacks from non-magical sources (no matter how powerful they may be), which is yet another advantage to her.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Rando
If this is true then Tiamat destroys Superion like a child, the magnitude of powers that that gives Tiamat access to is utterly terrifying. Otherwise Tiamat should still win this in a difficult battle due to her intelligence, as well as Superion's lack thereof. I'll also note that if Tiamat is like her first edition equivalent then she is probably just immune to attacks from non-magical sources (no matter how powerful they may be), which is yet another advantage to her.

Well, she wasn't high level in either arcane or divine magic but she was definitely magically inclined (remember, as a ruler of Hell she even has worshipers). However, in regards to being completley immune to all non-magic attack even back in 1st edition they had rules so that creatures (NPCs) of sufficient HD counted as being magical on their attacks. This was to allow for, say, an iron golem to be able to harm a werewolf. I would venture that Superion probably has some massive HD. :)

[Rando]

Maybe, but he also isn't from a world where everything is dripping with magical might. It is almost assured that anything with lots of hit dice is highly magical in nature in D&D. In Superion's world there is no magic at all.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
If all else fails, Superion drops a few massive sky scrappers on Tiamat, tieing her up, then closes in and pummels the hell out of her. Dragon or no, it can't take a beating from a bot that can demolish a battleship in one punch.

Where as MANY Transformers have attacks similar to most of Tiamat's breath weapons, and yet Superion still kicks the carp out of them.

Tiamats breath weapons are all magical attacks, none of the Transformers will be used to such an onslaught. Not to mention Tiamat can fly, and manuver quite well, so dropping a building on her isnt as easy as all that.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Paradox Factor
Well, as her bio said, each of her heads has a breath weapon. Also, she can fly. She is incredibly large, easly bigger than Superion. I don't recal much of her on the cartoon, but D&D dragons are very intelligent, so Superion is at a major disadvantage since his battle plan is "shoot it until it stops moving". Also as stated above, D&D dragons have spellcasting abilities, so her options aren't limited to just blasting Sup with his breath weapons, or engaging in bite and claw attacks. My vore goes to Tiamat.

In defense of Superion, I wouldnt say Tiamat is easily physically bigger than he is, or bigger at all even. Shes HUGE, but Superion and the rest of the combiner Transformers Id say are certainly bigger than she is. (Though the bigger characters arent always the more powerful mind you)

[DTM]

Originally posted by Rando
If this is true then Tiamat destroys Superion like a child, the magnitude of powers that that gives Tiamat access to is utterly terrifying. Otherwise Tiamat should still win this in a difficult battle due to her intelligence, as well as Superion's lack thereof. I'll also note that if Tiamat is like her first edition equivalent then she is probably just immune to attacks from non-magical sources (no matter how powerful they may be), which is yet another advantage to her.

Im not sure the Tiamat I remember from the D&D Monster Manual was in fact immune to non magical attacks, she was amazingly durable on the show, but her D&D stats for her AC were actually a bit weaker than I would have thought.

As for her and spells, just remember that while other sources are allowed, they cannot contradict the main source, The TV Cartoon. So while we never saw her casting spells on the show (though Im sure she can as the need never really arose on the show), lets keep her from getting each and every spell in existance here.

Venger was actually a stronger actual spell caster than Tiamat, and cast a variety of different spells all the time on the show (though in the end he is simply a bit weaker overall than Tiamat, which is why he does lose to her in combat)

[DTM]

Tiamat - 13 votes
Superion - 4 votes

[Dalandow]

Originally posted by deadalus13
I don't see how Superion can win. Ignore Tiamat's breath weapons, which are nothing like attacks used by Transformers because they are magical in nature, and just look at the basic scenario.
Imagine two opponents are "poofed" into an arena, given knowledge of their opponents, and are forced to fight each other. Both contestants are very powerful. One of the contestants is not very smart, can't adapt well to new situations, and will not utilize the information the are given wisely because of these limitations. The other one is incredibly intelligent and will utilize the knowledge gained from the download as effectively as possible. Which of the two do you think would win?

My vote: Tiamat



I think you hit the nail right on the head my friend. The Magic breath is just iceing on the cake. In no way should Superion win this.

My vote: Tiamat

[lobodragon]

Tiamat in a easy win.

[Maniac_nmt]

Originally posted by DTM
Tiamats breath weapons are all magical attacks, none of the Transformers will be used to such an onslaught. Not to mention Tiamat can fly, and manuver quite well, so dropping a building on her isnt as easy as all that.

Wait a minute, weren't you one of the guys arguing about Skeletor's blasts being magical might not matter to Optimus last round?

What's she got? Acid, okay, not so great, it may not even work on whatever material Superion is made out of. Lightning? Joy, energy attacks, as if Transformers don't deal with enough of those. Fire? Yay? We're dealing with a being that can probably handle re-entry by himself. Cold? Meh, they fly about in the stratosphere, where it's bloody cold. Poison? Er, okay, he doesn't breathe.

Superion is one of the more powerful combined 'cons. He never really needed to be all that intelligent, because it didn't matter for a hill of beans. He was tougher, stronger, and more powerful then most of the rest.

[The Red Baron]

reading maniacs post i have to agree with him, i am changing my vote to Superion

[ca551u5]

Just for the record, here's Tiamat's breath weapons, 3rd Ed style.

All DC 46 Reflex for half damage,
White: 12d6 cold, 70 ft Cone
Red: 24d10 fire, 70 ft Cone
Black: 24d4 acid, 140 Line
Green: 24d6 corrosive gas, 70 ft Cone
Blue: 24d8 lightning, 140 Line.

As far as I can tell, the white head will leave several feet of frost at least on whatever she breathes on with it. The Green head won't do much other than outer hull damage, so that's just BIG teeth. The Blue head will still leave dirty great huge burns from a lightning bolt. The Red and Black are the real threats, the Red head will be dealing re-entry heat no problem, and that sort of acid damage tells me that its pH LIMIT APPROACHING ZERO (since negative pH doesn't exist). Superion WILL feel that.

And on the topic of weaponry, she can also use the claws on her wings. We're up to 12 appendages with which to shred Superion.

[MSU]

Tiamat is one bad mamma jamma...she is gonna be hard to take out.

[Q99]

Well, Transformers may be unused to magical breath weapon attacks, but that doesn't make them more damaging: They're still big beams of death, and they are used to that.



The magical thing, imo, will have little to no impact here. Her breathweapons are useful due to raw power, they don't have any special magic effects that'll help extra against Superion here, and low-level D&D magic spells are likewise going to do little to nothing against such a big transformer.


Which leaves it at a giant, 5-headed 5-breathweapon flying dragon, versus a giant, extremely powerful well-armored with plenty of firepower to spare robot.


Which I'm honestly not sure who to vote for. I bet either of the other could blast them back to hell/the scrapyard given the chance, but the question is who can do that first. (Hmm... I actually think Superion might be tougher, but Tiamat does have redundant organs and weapons, which can grant an edge...).

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by DTM

As for her and spells, just remember that while other sources are allowed, they cannot contradict the main source, The TV Cartoon. So while we never saw her casting spells on the show (though Im sure she can as the need never really arose on the show), lets keep her from getting each and every spell in existance here.


Not quite true, if I remember correctly. Not only did Tiamat sometimes do a few things that could only be explained as spell casting - such as teleporting in to attack Vengar - but near the end of the series there were some really wicked Tiamat battles where she did some attacks that couldn't quite be explained by her breath weapon. One of the coolest of these is when the D&D crew actually decided they'd had enough of Vengar, got pumped and went to take on Tiamat in other-dimensional space so they could "cut a deal" with her. Among other things I definitely remember her causing the ground to erupt with earthquakes and magma flows.

[GAMURAI]

Weaknesses: Superion finds it difficult to adapt to new situations and to be innovative.

A dragon queen with 5 unique breath weapons is definatley a new situation. I play D&D. Tiamat lives in the chaotic evil hell where demon princes are afraid of her. She is a monster with very small peer. Tiamat for the win.

[ca551u5]

GAMURAI, she lives on the LAWFUL evil plane of Baator. That's worse, Asmodeus may just be the original manifestation of evil in the Multiverse, older than the Gods themselves, possibly even more powerful.

And He doesn't even try to tell Tiamat what to do.

Rokk Krin, good point. In "The Dragon's Graveyard" I remember Tiamat doing that, she let rip with an earthquake, threw Venger's bolts of power back at him, teleported and generally laid the smack down on him in a horrific way.

[DTM]

Originally posted by lobodragon
Tiamat in a easy win.

Love the voting participation my friend, but were going to need a bit of a reason behind your votes if you want them to count. Standard ruling for these TOCs for some time now.

[DTM]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
Wait a minute, weren't you one of the guys arguing about Skeletor's blasts being magical might not matter to Optimus last round?

What's she got? Acid, okay, not so great, it may not even work on whatever material Superion is made out of. Lightning? Joy, energy attacks, as if Transformers don't deal with enough of those. Fire? Yay? We're dealing with a being that can probably handle re-entry by himself. Cold? Meh, they fly about in the stratosphere, where it's bloody cold. Poison? Er, okay, he doesn't breathe.

Superion is one of the more powerful combined 'cons. He never really needed to be all that intelligent, because it didn't matter for a hill of beans. He was tougher, stronger, and more powerful then most of the rest.

Uh, no.

I was actually saying, over and over again, Skeletors magical blasts WILL hurt Prime more than most Decepticons lasers beams. Keep in mind though that Superion is NOT the Optimus Prime of the SHWs (Optimus brought LOADS more to the HWs than Superion brings to the SHWs), and Tiamat is certainly a "Skeletor level" magical being in the SHWs.

MAGICAL Lightning, acid, fire, cold and gas......ok, the gas wont work here.....will surely cause Superion major grief, especially as he is, like most combiner Transformers, weak in his joints where the actual Transformers merge (which is why Omega Supreme will always beat any combiner Transformer due to him being one Giant Single Robot, and why Devastator routinely falls to pieces in a sufficient earthquake)

[DTM]

Originally posted by ca551u5
Just for the record, here's Tiamat's breath weapons, 3rd Ed style.

All DC 46 Reflex for half damage,
White: 12d6 cold, 70 ft Cone
Red: 24d10 fire, 70 ft Cone
Black: 24d4 acid, 140 Line
Green: 24d6 corrosive gas, 70 ft Cone
Blue: 24d8 lightning, 140 Line.

As far as I can tell, the white head will leave several feet of frost at least on whatever she breathes on with it. The Green head won't do much other than outer hull damage, so that's just BIG teeth. The Blue head will still leave dirty great huge burns from a lightning bolt. The Red and Black are the real threats, the Red head will be dealing re-entry heat no problem, and that sort of acid damage tells me that its pH LIMIT APPROACHING ZERO (since negative pH doesn't exist). Superion WILL feel that.

And on the topic of weaponry, she can also use the claws on her wings. We're up to 12 appendages with which to shred Superion.


Well, keep in mind the Tiamat from the actual cartoon was mostly based on her form at that time, from the Monster Manual of the 1st AD&D series. Not sure that form could even use her claws, due to her being so big, though she could use her tail (which was poisonous) and all 5 heads.

[DTM]

Tiamat - 15 votes
Superion - 4 votes

[ca551u5]

I know DTM. That's why I havent posted a link to an illustration of her by the helaliciously skilled Wayne Reynolds, since she's a quadruped in it, unlike the Scylla-esque creature of the cartoon.

[GAMURAI]

GAMURAI, she lives on the LAWFUL evil plane of Baator. That's worse, Asmodeus may just be the original manifestation of evil in the Multiverse, older than the Gods themselves, possibly even more powerful.

God i feel like such a tard. Of course it's baator. I even have the manual of the planes. But it has been years and years since i played planescape or anything which had anything related to the planes.