Clix vs. Comix TOC! 31-35pts. Round 1 Match 1: POISON IVY VS. HAVOK

[Magnito]

Well, wasn't that fun! The Battle Royal will stay open (and won't close) 'cause it's really more for fun then to pick a winner.
And conrgulations to Zatanna for winning the 26-30pts. TOC!

I was playing Heroclix the other day, and building my team, I had 103 points left. I looked at my selection and realized that U HT Batman and R IC Hulk both cost the same. This got me thinking. Just because they are Heroclix equals doesn’t translate back translate back to comics. I think most of us would agree that Hulk could beat Batman in a fight.

That is the idea for this tournament. Every entry will be close to the same amount of points Heroclix wise, but this will be their comic forms fighting!

Rules:
This will be a standard single elimination tournament with 32 combatants. There will be 2 to a fight. They get no knowledge of each other (unless they have fought in the past). The only thing they get is the Heroclix figure of there enemies, and a PAC so they know what the opponent looks like and a bit about what they can do (this can be misleading however, like if they face Electro and think he will try to poison them). They will have 5 minutes to prepare. This is a fight to the death or KO, whichever happens first, and they must fight (no waiting for the opponent to die of starvation). They have with them what they normally carry and what there fig has if it is different. (Like how Bullseye doesn’t carry a gun, but he has one on the fig). If the fig that is being used is the rookie, you do NOT have to treat the fighter like that. (unless the characters powers change dramatically ie: Rouge)

When you vote, please try to justify your answer. You don’t have to write an essay, just a short explanation will do.

Terrain
There are 10 terrains that are all 5 miles in diameter. They will be chosen randomly.
With out further delay…

Poison Ivy
fig from CJ, 35pts.
vs.
Havok
fig from MM, 31pts.

Terrain:
Old West by The Red Baron
A Deserted ghost town in the middle of the desert. Located in a desert valley, its inhabitants have left long ago when the silver in the surround mountainside was depleted.

21-25pts. winner: Live Wire
26-30pts. winner: Zatanna

Round 1
Poison Ivy vs. Havok:

[Magnito]

And here are some bios from Whoclix:

POISON IVY
An unwilling experimental subject in human/plant hybridization, Pamela Lilian Isley was transformed into a creature who exudes mind-controlling pheromones while toxins pump through her veins. Calling herself Poison Ivy, she took up a life of crime, bewitching men with her lethal kiss and using her fast-acting seeds to create killer vines, thorny brambles and toxic plants. She has fought Batman and Robin on many occasions, only to end up in Arkham Asylum. Ivy has teamed up with other villains, including gal-pal Harley Quinn and the Injustice Gang of the World. She is a fierce eco-terrorist who hates humanity; preferring to turn the world into a lush paradise all her own.

HAVOK
The brother of Cyclops and son of Corsair, Alex Summers didn't discover his mutant ability until late in life when he was kidnapped by the Living Monolith. Under the stress of the encounter, his power to generate solar powered plasma blasts and shockwaves manifested. While happy to be reunites with his brother, he returned to a life of solitude. After being kidnapped by Sentinels, Havok joined the X-men, where he learned to control his powers and fell in love with fellow teammate Polaris. The couple left the team for their own adventures where they encountered the Hulk and were hunted by the Marauders. The couple returned to join X-Factor but after the "death" of teammate Maddrox, Havok joined the Black Beast's Brotherhood. However, it was a ploy to expose the Beast's sinister plans. Recently, during an airplane explosion, Havok was ripped from our dimension to a dark, twisted one. As Mutant X, he fought against the evil of that realm, paying the ultimate sacrifice to restore the fabric of reality.

[SumYungGai]

What power level of Poison Ivy are we looking at here? The elemental-esque avenger, or common costumed criminal? She's had a severe upgrade in powers over the years.

[Q99]

Well, if it were a fertile area, Ivy would have a good chance of mind-controlling Havok before he could blast her.

But in a desert? Havok's going to blast anything remotely green and walk away with this victory. Plenty of LOS and no additional plants for Ivy to use.

[Magnito]

That's a good quastion. What Poison Ivy Do we use? I want her to have some power, but, then agsin, it is also only her Rookie. Do you have a suggestion?

[Rando]

Ow, Havok wins this match with authority. Ivy has very little in the way of plants to control here, and even if she did it wouldn't matter as Havok can obliterate everything around himself easily. It is going to be nearly impossible for Ivy to actually close with Havok and even if she did Havok has some armor, a pulse wave style attack, and is probably the better fighter anyway.

[St-Dumas]

Havok would shoot down her vines faster then you can say "He blows Cyclops out of the water".

My vote goes to Havok.

[Magnito]

Yah, I was king of hoping for Ivy, but she can't win here. She will stick out like a sore green thumb. My vote...
HAKOK

[SumYungGai]

I'll throw a dark horse vote for Ivy. She is at her most dangerous when she is being crafty, and in a desert, she'll need to be crafty. She will poison the remaining wells with mind control spores and just wait Havok out. He will have to drink sooner or later with the desert sun beating down on that black outfit of his.

[Rokk_Krinn]

SumYungGai put forth a good idea and for those that just _have_ to have a good KO fight there's nothing to stop Ivy from growing and manipulating the "desert town" plants. Imagine a giant spine-flinging cactus or a patch of loco weed. There's a lot more in the desert than people realize. Havok is pretty straight-forward and, unfortunately for him, he's not fighting a straight-forward opponent.

Vote: Poison Ivy

[Rando]

A patch of loco-weed? That is so not real. While we are on the subject of desert plants be aware that Havok's suit (like all x-men suits) provides him with both some measure or durability and temperature control, some cactus (that somehow flings it's spine at Havok) isn't going to hurt him any. Havok is also not some dummy, he is a lot like his brother Cyclops, straight forward powers, but not straight forward personality, he is smart, very smart, he's outmauevered better villians than Ivy.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Rando
A patch of loco-weed? That is so not real. While we are on the subject of desert plants be aware that Havok's suit (like all x-men suits) provides him with both some measure or durability and temperature control, some cactus (that somehow flings it's spine at Havok) isn't going to hurt him any. Havok is also not some dummy, he is a lot like his brother Cyclops, straight forward powers, but not straight forward personality, he is smart, very smart, he's outmauevered better villians than Ivy.

First off, the suit isn't going to provide protection if the spines are a foot long (which, remember I said a giant cactus).

As for loco weed - time for a science lesson. :) True loco weed is astragalus hornii - though some other plants like spiesia lambertii are sometimes called loco weed - which is a poisonous plant to livestock. Livestock - and humans that ingest the plant - will eventually die from it but it first creates effects - such as staggering and blindness - that led people to once believe it caused "insanity" prior to death. Another common name for the plant is Horn's milkvetch. The plant usually grows in desert areas and alkali soil. My family owns an ag corporation - loco weed is a very real problem for ranchers and farmers in certain areas of the U.S.. Considering Ivy's powers allow her to create "souped-up" versions of plants a'la the old Plantman powers, creating a patch of "giant loco weed" seeping enough "milky poison" to saturate the air would be child's play for her.

Besides, you're worried about "realism" in a comic? Comics have used the old wives version of 'loco weed' for years - no reason to stop now. :)

[NotYou]

Despite all of the fervent prayers going on here, I see no
reason why Ivy would not be blasted to shreds.
Havok wins.

[Maniac_nmt]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
SumYungGai put forth a good idea and for those that just _have_ to have a good KO fight there's nothing to stop Ivy from growing and manipulating the "desert town" plants. Imagine a giant spine-flinging cactus or a patch of loco weed. There's a lot more in the desert than people realize. Havok is pretty straight-forward and, unfortunately for him, he's not fighting a straight-forward opponent.

Vote: Poison Ivy

Given that Havok actually lived in the desert for years with Polaris, he's not going to fall for any of Ivy's tricks.

He'll own her seven ways to Sunday. She has about as much chance as a snowball does sitting on the sun.

[SumYungGai]

Yeah? But how long can Havok survive without water in the desert?

[Goblin_Avenger]

I'd give this more thought if the terrain didn't just hand this one to Havok. Clear terrain is gonna help him find her, and he's gonna win less than a minute later. Lack of vegitation is going to severly inhibit Ivy's offensive, and Havok could take out any "gaint patches of loco weed" she sent at him fairly easiily. I'm also going to dismiss the scenarios where Ivy hides from Havok, he's not going to drop down dead of hunger/thirst while searching a 5-mile square battle field.

[Rando]

Originally posted by SumYungGai
Yeah? But how long can Havok survive without water in the desert?

Considering the rules of the contest expressly prohibit this, long enough.

[NotYou]

Not to mention the fact that if he reaches the water first,
as is likely for someone with good experience of deserts, then
it's Ivy trying to #### the moisture out of sand.

[Maniac_nmt]

Originally posted by SumYungGai
Yeah? But how long can Havok survive without water in the desert?

Longer then Poison Ivy if that's where you are going.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Maniac_nmt
Longer then Poison Ivy if that's where you are going.

While I agree Ivy can't "wait out" Havoc to dehydrate, here's a simpler method for her: just "quick grow" the flora in Alex's digestive tract. We've seen her do this in the past and she's not exactly squeemish about repeating the action. All the plasma bursts in the world won't help when a plant shoots up out of your throat.

[NotYou]

And you think she can do this quicker than Havok can shoot her?

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by NotYou
And you think she can do this quicker than Havok can shoot her?

Yep - if she spots Havok first. It's going to be hard for Alex to fire off a shot when something's spouting from him.

[Rando]

Well if we must be absurd then Havok can just fire a mansized blast of energy straight forward as soon as the match starts, and then just spin around a couple of times. The blast is too large to dodge, will cut through any blocking terrian easily and Havok has fired into orbit, he can easily go from one side of this arena to the other. That silly maneuver will preclude any silly maneuvers from Ivy who's range is far less than 5 miles.

[Rokk_Krinn]

And how is a maneuver Ivy's used more than once silly? Sorry if you don't like it but it's canon whereas Havok's "blow up from orbit" is used how often?

[Rando]

Much more often than Ivy mutates plants on the fly (it was always my impression that she used he scientific background to do this, and had mutant plants hanging around, not that she could do so in no time with no materials), as well as more often than Ivy causes plants to grow in people, as if it were a common thing then she would have killed Batman with this long ago. In fact the only time I can recall such an event takeing place is when she did it to Clayface, an that both required her to stick other plants into him to initiate the effect but also only worked on him because he was a being composed of dirt. Do you have some examples to contradict either of these claims, or for that matter enough to show the behavioral trend that you are indicateing?

[Rokk_Krinn]

Around the early 90's it was brought up that Ivy was a failed Plant Elemental and that became one of her powers. It's when she was especially tied into titles like "Swamp Thing" and "Black Orchid". We've seen her kill off "supporting cast scientists" that way but as for off'ing the Bat - well, let's be honest: Ivy never tries very hard to kill the Batman. He's too much of a plaything for her (part of the reason she got into crime was because she wanted his attention).

[Rokk_Krinn]

She also did it a fair amount back in the 70's - she would kill someone with her plant powers and then reanimate the corpse via plants. (Meant to edit but didn't reach the time limit)

[Rando]

So this is a Vertigo thing huh, well that explains a lot. Fine, I'll change my vote I guess, although I'm not sure how come this is even the elemental verision of Ivy.

[Magnito]

This isn't the elemental version of Ivy. That would count as a major power increase.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Failed elemental - and it's a power level she's been showing off and on since the 70's (long prior to Vertigo).