View Full Version : Help Me In Preparing For My Last TOC?
Well, my time is nearly at an end, and as Id mentioned several times now Id like to go out with a Bang (if possible). So I thought Id finish were I started, with a Comic Book (Marvel and DC only) SHW TOC (though at the time, since I didnt think Id be doing so many more, it was more of a HW/SHW TOC)
With that being said, I have collected 50 character names for this SHW Comics Part 2 TOC, and I would like your help whiddling this list of 50 down to the 32 well be using.
So basically its a reverse of my last SHW thread, where this time Id like you to pick the 18 you DONT want in this new TOC. Please make your reasons good and justified (hes too weak, too strong, etc.) not just simply voting a character out because you dont like him.
Were looking for the cream of this crop, the top 32 characters from this list of 50 which will be in our next (and my last) TOC.
Thanks all and as always, Have Fun.
1. Hercules (with Mace)
2. Morg
3. Power Girl
4. Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
5. Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring)
6. Nova
7. Firelord
8. Count Nefaria
9. Mary Marvel
10. Capt. Marvel Jr.
11. Hyperion
12. Beta Ray Bill
13. Kalibak
14. Annihilus
15. Ulik
16. Loki
17. General Zod
18. The General
19. Supergirl (Kara)
20. Cosmic Spider-Man
21. Professor X
22. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix)
23. Eradicator
24. Bizarro
25. Brainiac
26. X-Man (Nate Grey)
27. Ultraman
28. Super Woman
29. Mr. Sinister
30. Kurse (2X Thor version)
31. Captain Atom
32. Major Force
33. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
34. Sebastian Shaw
35. Solomon Grundy
36. Mon-El
37. Cyborg Superman
38. Wonder Man
39. Despero
40. Graviton
41. Metallo
42. Dracula
43. Mongul
44. Orion
45. Dr. Fate
46. Absorbing Man
47. Maestro
48. Validus
49. Amazo (original 5 JLA)
50. Ultron
Your time is nearly at an end?
Is the mothership coming to pick you up or something?
Why?
1.Guy Gardner
2.Hercules
3.Nova
4.Mary Marvel
5.Captain Marvel Jr.
6.Metallo
7.Mr.Sinister
8.Supergirl
9.Jean Grey
10.Cosmic Spidey
11.Sebastion Shaw
12.Solomon Grundy
13.Wonderman
14.Maestro
15.Absorbing Man
16.Morg
17.Eradicator
18.Professor X
(He knows about the Mother Ship.....terminate at all costs, no one on this planet must be aware of my true origins)
:)
Are we talking about the Despero that fought off the entire JLA AND JSA?
If so, he needs to go--he's pretty freaking powerful...
Heh...but really why is this the end?
Life getting too hectic to spare the time, or run out of ideas,
or bored, or what?
And if you really want a big blow out...why not keep all of them
and just have 14 byes.
de4dp00l
04/05/2005, 15:02
I'd drop Prof X and Mr. Sinister. Prof X is very powerful, and technically, he could probably drop many of the above characters with a psychic attack, but he's shown time and time again that he's too squeamish to lay out that kind of attack, and while he's debating with himself, he'll get layed out. Sinister isn't really a head to head character, and would get turned into a fine mist by most of the characters in the list in a straight forward fist fight. I'm sure he could out-scheme most of them though.
thugit - I guess this is super brute, metalist Despero, who I first saw in JLA (Adam Hughes) battling tooth and nail with Lobo, while the JLA of the time were trying to break them up.
Rando - youre got some majorly powerful and worthy SHWs on your list youre kicking out (Maestro, Morg, Phoenix, Hercules with Mace) mind if I ask why are you outting them?
NotYou - basically Yes to all. :)
Remember, were looking for a nice list of the most powerful from our initial list of 50. Sure we have some redundant guys, and if youd like to vote a few of them off fine, but overall were looking for the cream of the crop from the above list.
Uknown352
04/05/2005, 15:24
Is there a reason superman is not on there? just wondering.
The really powerful guys on my list I think will walk all over too many competitors (although I count Herc and Jean as low not high). With you haveing already removed the top 10 most powerful guys (by voteing concensus) I things dudes like Morg and especially Maestro will walk all over a lot of these guys. Maestro is doubly shadey because he is alternate reality. I probably should have included Despero and Alan Scott, but I refuse to move against my boy Alan, and Despero kind of snuck past me, u can switch him with Eradicator on my list if you want.
Because this is a SHW PART 2, and Superman along with many other worthy SHWs were actually in the first TOC. :)
Oh, and this is Morg PRE Magical Well power up.
Originally posted by Rando
The really powerful guys on my list I think will walk all over too many competitors (although I count Herc and Jean as low not high). With you haveing already removed the top 10 most powerful guys (by voteing concensus) I things dudes like Morg and especially Maestro will walk all over a lot of these guys. Maestro is doubly shadey because he is alternate reality. I probably should have included Despero and Alan Scott, but I refuse to move against my boy Alan, and Despero kind of snuck past me, u can switch him with Eradicator on my list if you want.
Were only looking to get rid of people who are too strong IF you believe them to be in a Cosmic Beings weight class.
Characters like Kurse, Maestro, Morg, Despero are all very high end SHW, comparable to last TOCs Superman, Thanos, Darkseid and Silver Surfer.
Please, do not vote characters off for being too powerful UNLESS you truly believe them to be Cosmic Beings. High End SHWs are exactly what were looking for, not the opposite.
Rando, Ill mark your list as it is above, unless you wish to send me another one. Looking for 18 characters per list all, any help would be greatly appreciated.
Basically, first check to see if you believe any characters should be in a Cosmic Beings weight class, if so they are too powerful. (Shouldnt be many, if any, here)
Next check for characters you deem too overall weak for this SHW TOC, when comparing them with the other characters here (obviously, we have a great deal of characters here)
Next, check to see if you would like to get rid of an overly redundant characters (as we have alot of Superman like characters in Mon-El, Cyborg Superman, Eradicator, Hyperion, Ultraman, or ala Supergirl in Power Girl, Mary Marvel, Supergirl herself, etc.)
We want a nice listing of the most powerful SHWs from the above 50. Keep in mind how powerful some of last SHW TOCs characters were if you wish to use that as a base.
meh, here ya go then, a list of jabronis. Plus Maestro.
1.Maestro
2.Guy Gardner
3.Mary Marvel
4.Captain Marvel Jr.
5.Hercules
6.Jean Grey
7.Professor X
8.Nova
9.Mr.Sinister
10.Sebastion Shaw
11.Solomon Grundy
12.Metallo
13.Absorbing Man
14.Major Force
15.Supergirl
16.Eradicator
17.Wonder Man
18.Loki
Rokk_Krinn
04/05/2005, 16:05
7. Firelord - We all know you're going to see a zillion "Spider-Man" pummeled him arguements so why not head this off now? :)
10. Capt. Marvel Jr. - I like Freddy but in a tournament with Mon-el, Hyperion, etc. as well as the female "Super"-clones, he's pretty redundant.
11. Hyperion - Same reason as Freddy. I really like Hyperion but when given the choice of cutting him or, say, Zod or Bizarro, Hype is the one.
15. Ulik - Tough but redundant with the likes of Kalibak running around. Not an automatic reason for putting him on the list but having to get 18 means my favourite Rock Troll is on the cahoots.
18. The General - The General can't be beaten physically, mentally, etc. While he can be "chained" for an incap - if that rule is allowed - he's normally defeated by just removing him from the scene of battle. As such I'm not sure he actually works good in this type of tournament.
20. Cosmic Spider-Man - Like the name says, he verges into Cosmic weight-class. His powers were pretty much deux ex machina for the writers (yes, I know they were the Captain Universe powers but backed by increased Spidey-powers they let him do whatever was needed for the story).
21. Professor X - For reasons stated by others: Chuck's got some real power but he never uses it fast or hard enough (until he's fed up) to really put up a good fight in these style of tournaments.
22. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) - Jean as the Phoenix was tough, but probably HW material. She only went into SHW/Cosmic range once she became Dark Phoenix. As "early" Phoenix, she was too hesitant with her powers and still learning them.
29. Mr. Sinister - He's powerful but more of a HW contender.
30. Kurse (2X Thor version) - Another character that can't really be physically beaten and as most combatants here are "physical" it seems like he gets a "bye" against most contenders.
32. Major Force - Redundant with Captain Atom and just not a character that's going to see much support. Tough cut but well, time to get brutal I guess rather than see a lopsided match.
33. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor) - Even packing the Hulkbuster Armour didn't give Tony that great of an advantage versus the Hulk. Considering some of the weaponry was pretty Hulk-specific too, that further weakens him against some of the SHW's we're seeing here.
34. Sebastian Shaw -Almost anyone on this list can "overload" Shaw with one hit, putting him as a great HW contender but outclassed in this type of tourney.
35. Solomon Grundy - This one hurts to do but I see too many problems with Grundy. Too many people will argue about his power fluctuations while even some of his stronger ones will have tough times against a lot of these characters.
41. Metallo - Another character that's pretty fun and gives some nice variety but let's be honest: the reason he can hang against a SHW is because he pinpoints the weaknesses. Without a lot of metal material and such for Metallo to integrate, he's basically going to be too weak against most of the foes here.
42. Dracula - DC and Marvel's versions of Dracula are maybe HW at most. He spent most of "Tomb of Dracula" running from far weaker opponents, including getting killed for a few issues (by Dr. Sun). He's very outclassed here.
46. Absorbing Man - Creel is tough - really tough - but only with ample materials to absorb. The arena doesn't really give him many options and even tough stone and metal is in huge trouble against a lot of these opponents.
50. Ultron - This was the hardest cut. Ultron's a beast but he suffers a big weakness against a lot of SHW's - his innards can be shaken up pretty good, while a lot of his weaponry doesn't quite give him the necessary damage potential.
Maestro is too strong
1. Hercules (with Mace)
3. Power Girl
6. Nova
9. Mary Marvel
10. Capt. Marvel Jr.
12. Beta Ray Bill
21. Professor X
22. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix)
25. Brainiac
26. X-Man (Nate Grey)
29. Mr. Sinister
32. Major Force
33. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
34. Sebastian Shaw
38. Wonder Man
42. Dracula
46. Absorbing Man
LittleApril
04/05/2005, 17:30
8. Count Nefaria
11. Hyperion
17. General Zod
18. The General
19. Supergirl (Kara)
21. Professor X
25. Brainiac
29. Mr. Sinister
30. Kurse (2X Thor version)
32. Major Force
33. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
34. Sebastian Shaw
37. Cyborg Superman
39. Despero
42. Dracula
48. Validus
49. Amazo (original 5 JLA)
50. Ultron
Those are the 18 i vote to remove
The Red Baron
04/05/2005, 19:12
1. Hercules (with Mace)
9. Mary Marvel
10. Capt. Marvel Jr.
40. Graviton
41. Metallo
42. Dracula
43. Mongul
44. Orion
28. Super Woman
29. Mr. Sinister
30. Kurse (2X Thor version)
31. Captain Atom
32. Major Force
33. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
35. Solomon Grundy
36. Mon-El
37. Cyborg Superman
38. Wonder Man
SumYungGai
04/05/2005, 19:49
My exclusions and reasons (in case it matters)
Morg - I'm tired of hearing about the power cosmic.
Nova - See above
Firelord - See above
Mary Marvel - "Clone" of another character
Capt. Marvel Jr. - Same as above
Hyperion - Same as above
Loki - Poorly defined powers (usually only works behind the scenes, but then there was this "one time when . . ."
Supergirl (Kara) - "Clone" of another character
Cosmic Spider-Man - Ridiculously powerful version of normal character
Professor X - Poorly defined powers (usually only works behind the scenes, but then there was this "one time when . . ."
Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) - Will be assumed to be Dark Phoenix and garner more votes than deserved
Bizarro - Imperfect clone of another character
X-Man (Nate Grey) - What's he done lately?
Ultraman - Ruthless clone of another character
Super Woman - Ruthless clone of another character
Kurse (2X Thor version) - What's he done lately?
Dracula - Ill defined powers, super tough in one book and medium tough in another
Maestro - Ridiculously powerful version of normal character
1. Sebastion Shaw
-- He will start out unpowered and if everyone gets a mental download they will know exactly how to beat him: grapple, not punch. There is no way an unpowered Shaw will wrassle or break out of the SHWs involved here.
2. Solomon Grundy
-- His powers have fluctuated too much in continuity and will thus cause too much arguments amongst the voters.
3. Metallo
-- Materials lacking in ToC Arenas will hamper him.
4. Ultron
-- He/It may be indestructible, but his inner components can be destroyed, melted or drained. Also, he/it lacks the firepower necessary to hurt the SHWs involved here.
5. Capt. Marvel Jr.
-- Too many "Superman" types already. Plus, I don't see him able to cut loose to put up a show.
6. Kalibak
-- I am unfamiliar with his power levels so I just choose to cut him. Besides, I found better people to keep.
7. Cyborg Superman
-- I am cutting him simply because there are already alot of "Superman" types. Plus, this was a Dan Jurgens' creation that I thought was a blight on the whole Superman genre (including all the Reign Of Supermen fakes).
8. Cosmic Spider-Man
-- Too powerful. Cosmic Weight Class.
9. Professor X
-- Too powerful. Even Dr. Fate would go down before he knew what hit him. Charles is the most powerful mutant telepath on the planet. He would instantly shut down his opponent's mind before his opponent could bat an eye.
10. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix)
-- Jean was too unsure of her powers at this early juncture. She's either going down hard OR if the battle goes on for awhile she will revert to Dark Phoenix and just absorb the ToC Arena and everything else in a planet-wide area.
11. Eradicator
-- Meh... see my argument for Cyborg Superman.
12. Brainiac
-- I am totally unfamiliar with Brainiac's current power levels so I will just make it easy and cut him. Besides, I found better people to keep.
13. X-Man (Nate Grey)
-- Too powerful. He's not on Charles' level, but can do pretty much the same thing.
14. Mr. Sinister
-- Sinister is a schemer that stays behind the lines. No way he could hold his own HtH.
15. Captain Atom
-- I wanted to keep Nathan, but he's got a couple big weaknesses to be exploited by the SHWs involved here.
a) crack his shell and he is out.
b) overload him with energy and he Quantum Leaps into the future.
16. Major Force
-- See Captain Atom. Although, I am unsure if he time leaps, but the cracked shell is enough reason to leave him out. This weakness is TOO exploitable.
17. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
-- The Hulkbuster Armor was designed to take on the Hulk and it couldn't even do that efficiently. Tony would never hold his own here. If you pick the Iron Man armor from Busiek's and Chen's run on the title I would leave IM in this ToC. That was the armor right before it achieved a sentient consciousness. Claremont's take on this armor was great in Contest Of Champions 2.
18. Absorbing Man
-- Creed won't find enough items to absorb fast enough to make him a threat. His lack of mobility also hurts.
Prof. Aragorn
04/06/2005, 14:37
Morg-Don't know him too well other than he's a herald.
Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring)-Eh, Suffers from Human Torch syndrome, he'll lose his temper get his butt whooped, etc.
Annihilus-He's quite durable, does some damage, and flies fast. I just don't think it's good enough. He's more of a high end heavyweight.
Cosmic Spider-man-Way, way, way too powerful. It's Spider-man, he has to win!
Professor Xavier-Flash backs from the movie TOC, it's also not in character for him to psy blast anyone.
Jean Grey (80's Phoenix)-She's a heavyweight at best.
Mr. Sinister-Moreso a mastermind, that and he can't really defend himself.
Cyborg Superman-Feh, redundant.
Sebastian Shaw-He doesn't start strong and not even starting Hulk strong. He gets whupped and it's over.
Solomon Grundy-Heavyweight at his strongest.
Maestro-If Hulk's not on the list because he's too strong than what chance has Maestro?
X-man-Eh, I here he's more powerful than Xavier and then some. Seems too powerful.
Nova-I don't think she's that powerful.
Mary Marvel-Not as powerful as the big red cheese, and she's quite redundant.
Captain Marvel Jr.-See Mary
Super Woman-Carbon copy of Wonder Woman, she's only a heavyweight.
Hyperion-Superman was eliminated, right?
Eradicator-Superman was eliminated, right?
Professor, I think youre missing the point. Hulk and Superman were NOT eliminated, this is a part 2 of the TOCs they were in, so they obviously couldnt be in this one as well, thats why they are not listed above.
I gotta say Im really surprised at alot of the votes and some of the most powerful SHWs above (who are definately still SHWs) are in danger of being kicked out of the TOC before it starts.
Current List Thus Far:
The Top 18 (or 19 since were tied a bit for now) represent the characters you want to see OUT of the next SHW TOC. The bottom 32 (or 31) are the characters that will be left IN:
Professor X 8
Mr. Sinister 8
Capt. Marvel Jr. 7
Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) 6
Major Force 6
Sebastian Shaw 6
Solomon Grundy 5
Dracula 5
Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor) 5
Mary Marvel 5
Cosmic Spider-Man 4
Kurse 4
Nova 4
Hyperion 4
X-Man (Nate Grey) 4
Cyborg Superman 4
Absorbing Man 4
Maestro 4
Metallo 4
Brainiac 3
Wonder Man 3
Hercules (with Mace) 3
Supergirl 3
Ultron 3
Eradicator 3
Morg 2
Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring) 2
Firelord 2
Loki 2
The General 2
Super Woman 2
Captain Atom 2
Power Girl 1
Count Nefaria 1
Beta Ray Bill 1
Kalibak 1
Annihilus 1
Ulik 1
General Zod 1
Bizarro 1
Ultraman 1
Mon-El 1
Despero 1
Graviton 1
Mongul 1
Orion 1
Validus 1
Amazo 1
Dr. Fate
Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
Some issues with the above list, just thrown out there as a topic of discussion.
Maestro - some of you believe him to be TOO powerful, but for that to happen he would have to be in the Cosmic Beings weight class. Maestro is twice as powerful as a Banner Hulk, that to me doesnt mean hes beyond Thanos or Darkseid, and when I put him against regular Superman Im pretty sure Superman defeated him. This being the case, if Superman is a SHW, why wouldnt Maestro be?
Phoenix - in the 80s there were few beings on Earth more powerful than Jean. She had world class Mental Powers and Willpower, and to me surely belongs in this range of SHW characters. (shes definately not too powerful as this form is certainly NO Dark Phoenix)
Kurse - This is the same Kurse that almost lost to General Zod a few battles back, so Id certainly not say hes way too powerful for the SHW level. Heck, Juggernaut was in the original TOC and hes harder to hurt than Kurse is. This version is 2X Thor, but does that mean hes beyond the likes of Thanos, and Darkseid, I highly doubt so.
Ultron - he can be defeated by shaking up his insides......since when? This guy definately deserves to be here, no doubt.
To me those 4 are some of the most powerful this class has to offer, without going over into the Cosmic Beings level. The General too I can see as well, as again I take him as a Juggernaut level super bruiser. But in the end I like to have us all have a say so in your TOCs here, (not saying in the end I wont make an executive call here and there), so lets see what you think and keep those votes coming.
Rokk_Krinn
04/06/2005, 15:32
Originally posted by DTM
Ultron - he can be defeated by shaking up his insides......since when? This guy definately deserves to be here, no doubt.
Since about West Coast Avengers #13 or so when Wonder Man did it to him. Stupid, I know but it's happened and as you can see, folks feel it'll be used as an arguement against him. Like I said...the hardest cut of all as I think he'd probably have reinforced himself against that since then.
OK, this is Ultron from Ultron Unlimited, were he fought a huge team of Avengers, including Wonder Man.
Also, I would strongly recommend Cosmic SpiderMan as NOT being too powerful. The guy fought Magneto and Gravitron to a standstill, 2 Mid Level SHWs, that to me doesnt say I can trash Superman and Thanos with ease.
Compare the power levels of characters from the first SHW TOC when you think a character might be too strong, youll see they have some near Cosmic Being guys as well.
The Red Baron
04/06/2005, 16:13
well spider fought and bet the tri sential didnt that take cosmic powers?
Help randomize numbers in the star wars toc
Nah, the Tri Sentinel could be defeated by MANY SHWs from this and the previous listing.
Well, we dont have a whole lot of replies here thus far (though thank you for those that did), so Ill keep this going and see where we end up.
Again, Im reserving the right to switch around certain characters that I truly feel do belong in this SHW TOC if they are in fact in serious danger of being outed when all is said and done.
Think anyone here is too powerful, compare them to the Monsters that were in the first SHW TOC and I think youll see that really no one here, with a POSSIBLE exception to Cosmic Spidey, should be outed for being too strong.
So lets here from you all, and trust me, youre going to want as many high level SHWs in this thing as you can get. :)
michiganj24
04/07/2005, 03:31
2. Morg
10. Capt. Marvel Jr.
20. Cosmic Spider-Man
21. Professor X
23. Eradicator
24. Bizarro
26. X-Man (Nate Grey)
29. Mr. Sinister
30. Kurse (2X Thor version)
32. Major Force
33. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
34. Sebastian Shaw
35. Solomon Grundy
36. Mon-El
37. Cyborg Superman
41. Metallo
42. Dracula
46. Absorbing Man
You have a couple who are too powerful
Cos Spidey
Xman Nate Grey(th emost powerful pshyic on earth only inexperinece hurt him)
Professor X dosent have the exp problem and could shut down minds if he wanst to and if he dosent hes not even cloes to being here.
Couple of others are chumps dont belong Eradicator, Cyborg and Magor Force
Manchine
04/07/2005, 03:38
1) Professor X
2) Mr. Sinister
3) Capt. Marvel Jr.
4) Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix)
5) Major Force
6) Sebastian Shaw
7) Solomon Grundy
8) Dracula
9) Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor)
10) Mary Marvel
11) Supergirl
12) Nova
13) X-Man (Nate Grey)
14) Cyborg Superman
15) Maestro
16) Metallo
17) Wonder Man
18) Eradicator
I know I am suppose to put reasons behind it but I am to tired. Also to many other people just posted there list. Some are powerful (but would be defeated against the higher ranks) some have Major Weakness and some I just dont know enough about.
WakandaMan
04/07/2005, 04:39
Sounds good DTM. So why indeed is this your last TOC?
This is really tough to trim down....but I'll give it a burl.
1- Hercules (with Mace) - One of my favourite characters of all, but I don't see him beating many opponents here. I'd prefer not to have to go through the agony of watching him lose (although I'd probably still argue black and blue for him! ;) )
2- Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring) - seriously?
3- Firelord - Not only did Spider-man beat him, but most clix players have a natural distaste for this character thanks to some lousy dial designing. ;) I don't see him lasting far.
4- Mary Marvel
5- Capt. Marvel Jr. ~ These two both seem redundant.
6- Cosmic Spider-Man ~ Have to disagree with you DTM. This Spider-man is too powerful.
7- Professor X ~ Like others said, Xavier is either unbeatable or useless depending on your fan-bias. Same with the next two;
8- Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix)
9- X-Man (Nate Grey)
10- General Zod ~ I had to cut at least one of the Superman clones, and he is my least favourite. Plus, people will likely vote for him just because he hasa cool catch line. :ermm:
11- Super Woman ~ Doesn't seem powerful enough
12- Mr. Sinister ~ Same.
13- Major Force ~ Redundant with Cap. Atom
14- Dracula ~ Another fairly weak character, with hard to define powers as well.
That's the easy choices. Other than that I'll go with characters I don't know very well. Selfish perhaps, but I don't see any other way of getting 18.
15- Morg
16- Mon-El
17- Validus
18- Eradicator
Deadpoolica
04/07/2005, 05:03
Morg
Kurse
Iron Man (Hulkbuster)
Sebastian Shaw
Soloman Grundy (Do we really want a guy who yells "Grundy wear pants too" in this?)
Mon-El
Graviton
Maestro
Validus
Ulik
Eradicator
Guy Gardner (yellow ring) If it was Guy-Green Lantern, or Guy-Warrior i'd be all for it. But Guy-yellow ring.... mm.. not so much.
Hercules
Metallo
Absorbing Man
Kalibak
Brainiac
Dracula
Prof. Aragorn
04/07/2005, 13:46
Why is Drac getting the short end of the stick here?
The guy is about as strong as Spider-man, his mental prowess lies in hypnotism, and his weather manipulation was strong enough to demolish a city.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, the guys got some of the best military tactics, one of the first to use germ warfare against his enemies, as well as instigating fear (you know Vlad the impaler?).
Not only that, but his will to survive and undie is impressive. This guy has been known to give Strange problems. And he's also tangoed with the Surfer and Thor.
So what, he's been chased around by lame characters, Surfer's been knocked out by a flower pot, Firelord lost to Spider-man, Kingdom Come Alan Scott gets weak in the knees because someone brought a tooth pick aboard his space fortress. Heroes and villains have lost to ridiculous battles before, so why should Dracula get ousted because he's been chased around by some guy whose namesake his Drac's primary weakness.
And I don't think the guys who can create weaknesses will just simply beat Drac anyway, that's saying a magician will always beat Superman, or someone who wears lots of yellow will make Hal Jordan revert into a fetal position.
I believe Drac can be a serious contender in this fight, he could easily beat a lot of the guys on this list no problem.
chase_jyd
04/07/2005, 15:14
1. Hercules (with Mace) - no range, no ability to fly, as much as he could lay a serious amount of damage on a lot of the list, too many people would annihilate him before he came close to them.
2. Power Girl - A serious powerhouse, but not on quite the level of some of the biggest bruisers, and also lacks range. Was really painful voting for her though. Mostly, her powerset on this list is really common, and others do it better.
3. Capt. Marvel Jr. - Easy choice, main question is, why not Mary too then? Mostly because she's debatably better than Billy at times - she was the first to really use the full utility of the wisdom, and still makes best use of it at times. More than makes up for any negligible strength difference. Freddy doesn't have that going for him.
4. Kalibak - I think Kalibak has a clause in his contract - no matter who he's fighting, he can give them trouble, but he ultimately is going to lose. I swear, he'd find a way to put up a good tussle, but ultimately get dropped by the mighty fists of Pa Kent.
5. Annihilus - Capable of being among the top contenders, but also finds some dumb ways to lose. His obsessiveness tends to doom him, and he's not necessarily at the top of this food chain to make up for it.
6. Ulik - High powered, not terribly bright, no range.
7. Professor X - Too vulnerable to the first person who can react quicker than he can, or get even a single shot in.
8. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) - She's either too low end, or way, way too high end, depending on when in the Phoenix run. She didn't have much grasp on her powers for the most part, and while strong for the X-Men then, I wouldn't throw her against some of the super heavyweights, up until the point she became uber-powered beyond all belief.
9. Super Woman - A lesser powered version of someone on the list, and a common powerset among the top ranks here. She can go.
10. Mr. Sinister - Given a year to plan and build, sure, he can work on this level. But he's more of a schemer and long term mastermind than a pure cosmic badass. Works by far the best when he knows his enemies.
11. Captain Atom - He got beaten solidly by Mary Marvel, who makes my list here, but isn't at the top of it. Capt. Atom is tough, but most of the list would hand him his head in the end.
12. Major Force - Once Kyle got really serious, he handed Major Force his head. Atom is bigtime tough, but on a Capt. Atom level, which seems just a little low for this list.
13. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor) - I.M. in this suit managed to fight even with the Hulk. And there's an improved version of the Hulk on here. I almost chose someone else, but ultimately, Tony doesn't quite make it.
14. Sebastian Shaw - Too many people on the list easily capable of getting around his power, or overloading it. Shaw is tough, but better as a mastermind who can hold his own than a cosmic threat.
15. Solomon Grundy - Too dumb usually, too straightforward, no range, slow.
16. Wonder Man - Again, common powerset on the list, and he's not one of the elite for that power level, although close.
17. Metallo - Superman can beat him despite Metallo hitting his weak point - and has, repeatedly. While powerful in his own right, his big edge is very specialized. And that specialty doesn't help against the majority of the list.
18. Dracula - Dracula is too hard to define. Sometimes he can take on cosmics, sometimes he mildly impresses Nick Fury. At his highest point, I might vote him in... but I don't think he'd get a lot of votes in a fight due to his mixed power level representations.
Current Vote Count
Kicked Out
Mr. Sinister 13
Capt. Marvel Jr. 12
Professor X 10
Major Force 10
Sebastian Shaw 10
Dracula 10
Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) 9
Solomon Grundy 9
Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor) 9
Mary Marvel 7
X-Man (Nate Grey) 7
Eradicator 7
Maestro 7
Metallo 7
Cyborg Superman 6
Absorbing Man 6
Cosmic Spider-Man 6
Kurse 6
Hercules (with Mace) 6
Keeps
Nova 5
Morg 5
Wonder Man 5
Hyperion 4
Brainiac 4
Mon-El 4
Supergirl 4
Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring) 4
Super Woman 4
Captain Atom 3
Ultron 3
Firelord 3
Kalibak 3
Ulik 3
Validus 3
General Zod 2
Bizarro 2
Annihilus 2
Loki 2
Graviton 2
The General 2
Power Girl 2
Count Nefaria 1
Beta Ray Bill 1
Ultraman 1
Despero 1
Mongul 1
Orion 1
Amazo 1
Dr. Fate
Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
m0rpheus
04/08/2005, 09:06
Getting the boot
1. Cosmic Spider-Man
2. Professor X (if he gets hit he's paste)
3. Capt. Marvel Jr. (made redundant by Mary)
4. Sebastian Shaw (personally I think he's a high level HW)
5. Mr. Sinister (ditto)
6. Solomon Grundy (another high level HW)
7. Kurse (2X Thor version) (because I dont know him)
8. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) (Jean didnt get a SHW boost without the word Dark before Phoenix)
9. Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor) (great if he got Maestro, otherwise...)
10. Dracula (another guy who'd be tough to beat in the HW class, here he's just outgunned)
11. X-Man (Nate Grey) (if I remember correctly doesnt he start bleeding out his nose when he goes full out? He'd last at most 2 rounds before his brain implodes)
12. Eradicator (nothing to do with powerlevel its just that there are to many wannabe super-men on the list)
13. Power Girl (I had to give the boot to Mary Marvel, Kara or Power Girl so...)
14. Absorbing Man (I dont want to but unless its an adamantium arena he goes)
15. Nova (too many Heralds on the list)
16. Morg (ditto, now just down to one...)
17. Cyborg Superman (another wannabe super-man has to go)
18. Ultraman (even worse than wannabe supes? evil-alternate dimension supes! Zod has the evil supes thing covered and does a better job)
Kicked Out
Mr. Sinister 14
Capt. Marvel Jr. 13
Professor X 11
Sebastian Shaw 11
Dracula 11
Major Force 10
Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix) 10
Solomon Grundy 10
Iron Man (Hulkbuster Armor) 10
X-Man (Nate Grey) 8
Eradicator 8
Mary Marvel 7
Maestro 7
Metallo 7
Cyborg Superman 7
Absorbing Man 7
Cosmic Spider-Man 7
Kurse 7
Keeps
Hercules (with Mace) 6
Nova 6
Morg 6
Wonder Man 5
Hyperion 4
Brainiac 4
Mon-El 4
Supergirl 4
Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring) 4
Super Woman 4
Captain Atom 3
Ultron 3
Firelord 3
Kalibak 3
Ulik 3
Validus 3
General Zod 2
Bizarro 2
Annihilus 2
Loki 2
Graviton 2
The General 2
Power Girl 3
Count Nefaria 1
Beta Ray Bill 1
Ultraman 2
Despero 1
Mongul 1
Orion 1
Amazo 1
Dr. Fate
Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
Keep em coming all, the more votes we get the hopefully better overall list well have.
Well, it looks as if this is all the help Im going to get with this next TOC, thanks again for everyone who participated here, and for the most part this list looks pretty good.
As mentioned before, I am reserving the right to make a few changes, which I am exercising here and now. Not all too many, but some characters I think would make powerful SHWs and/or make for a more varied total listing as well.
Who will be removed, well this is where Ill need your help again. For reduancies sake, we have 6 Superman like characters in the KEEP LIST, which Im sure we can widdle down to 3 and allow for 3 other KICKED OFF characters into our list.
Therefore I would like any who are willing to look at the following list of 6, and vote for 3 and ONLY 3, they would like removed:
General Zod
Hyperion
Bizarro
Ultraman
Mon-El
Count Nefaria
Now we have 4 DCs and 2 Marvels, so please make your list of 3 to be removed consisting of 2 DCs and 1 Marvel.
The 3 characters with the most votes above will be removed, and replaced with the following 3 characters, who again I feel certainly fit the criteria and are some incredibly powerful SHWs at that:
Maestro
Kurse
Phoenix (80s version)
In addition, I am bringing back Absorbing Man, who could be near unstoppable or much less so depending on the terrain and character he is fighting, and removing: FIRELORD (as Im sure we would all use the Lost To SpiderMan argument on him anyway)
If I dont get many replies to this I will chose 3 from the list of 6 above and proceed with that.
So show your support, share your piece of mind, and lets see about getting an EXCELLENT Final list for our SHW TOC Part 2.
Thanks all.
Soooo, no one is interested in further helping to create this SHW TOC Part 2. Were almost there, just need a more opinions on the above question and were done. Anybody?
If I dont get any, or many, replies for this I will make the final changes myself and then post our Final List of combatants in this TOC.
Here ya go:
Bizarro
Ultraman
Count Nefaria
First two: Do we really need that many Supes clones?
Third: Eh. Just think the other 3 choices would fit better.
Personally Ill go with kicking off:
Bizarro
Ultraman
Hyperion (as I think Count Nefaria would make a better showing here)
shock man x
04/10/2005, 15:14
Hyperion
Bizarro
Ultraman
Always liked Nefaria myself. Hyperion is just annoying the hell out of me over in Exiles.
The Red Baron
04/10/2005, 23:21
Hyperion
Bizarro
and nefaria to powerful took on the avengers plus.
1. Power Girl (Because i don't think i could handle a whole new TOC's worth of innuendo about her bust size
2. Loki (His powers seem to be too open. He's a high end god and so seems to be able to do pretty much whatever he feels like)
3. Cosmic Spider-Man (Instantaneous matter transmutation at huge range i think is too powerful for this TOC)
4. Sebastian Shaw (As much as i like him i think he's just not in most of these guys league)
5. Solomon Grundy (Only because he has so many different power levels depending on which part of his personality has come back.
6. Metallo (He's the poor mans cyborg superman. Even after neron upgraded him he still doesn't have what it takes to go toe to toe with the people here)
7. Kurse (2X Thor version)(2X a god seems pretty cosmic to me but i don't know this character)
Thats all i could come up with. Sorry
Also i do not agree with the comment that sinister is only good from behind the shadows. He has taken on the full xmen force in front on combat on many occasions and come out strong. And without the summers brothers to injure him i can see him taking out a large portion of the people here. He's been shown to be very resistant to psionics in the past and his body adapts to counter most attacks except for the summers brothers energy blasts
Maestro
Cosmic Spiderman
Kurse
Count Nefaria
are all way too strong i'm not saying certain characters couldnt beat them but your TOC would be more level without them.
Is maestro just hulk with a schemeing brain? If so i don't think it would be out of the question for alot of characters here to beat him.
Originally posted by GAMURAI
Is maestro just hulk with a schemeing brain? If so i don't think it would be out of the question for alot of characters here to beat him.
The Maestro has the exact same abilities as the Hulk but at a higher level due to the years of gamma absorption. And he is pretty smart as well. So basically he is to the hulk what KCsuperman is to superman
Bizarro
Mon-El
Count Nefaria
If this is a similar hyperion to the one in supreme power then Puhlease let him stay in! He is superman without a weakness to kryptonite. I love him and someday want to marry him.
green_knight
04/11/2005, 01:19
Bizarro
Mon-El
Nefaria
So why is this your last tournament DTM?
deadalus13
04/11/2005, 05:10
Bizarro
Ultraman
Mon-El
Rokk_Krinn
04/11/2005, 10:48
Originally posted by deadalus13
Bizarro
Ultraman
Mon-El
Aren't we supposed to do 2 DC's and 1 Marvel? :)
Anyway, my list...
Bizarro (hate to see him go, but he is so I might as well...)
Ultraman
Hyperion
Ignatz_Mouse
04/11/2005, 11:47
1. Hercules (with Mace)
2. Morg
10. Capt. Marvel Jr.
30. Kurse (2X Thor version)
32. Major Force
42. Dracula
37. Cyborg Superman
3. Power Girl
6. Nova
7. Firelord
22. Jean Grey (80’s Phoenix)
15. Ulik
16. Loki
28. Super Woman
43. Mongul
21. Professor X
23. Eradicator
18. The General
WakandaMan
04/11/2005, 11:57
General Zod
Mon-El
Count Nefaria
Going against the grain here...
Originally posted by The Red Baron
Hyperion
Bizarro
and nefaria to powerful took on the avengers plus.
Were looking to eliminate 2 DC and 1 Marvel here TRB. And Nefaria too powerful for the SHWs?
Originally posted by GAMURAI
1. Power Girl (Because i don't think i could handle a whole new TOC's worth of innuendo about her bust size
2. Loki (His powers seem to be too open. He's a high end god and so seems to be able to do pretty much whatever he feels like)
3. Cosmic Spider-Man (Instantaneous matter transmutation at huge range i think is too powerful for this TOC)
4. Sebastian Shaw (As much as i like him i think he's just not in most of these guys league)
5. Solomon Grundy (Only because he has so many different power levels depending on which part of his personality has come back.
6. Metallo (He's the poor mans cyborg superman. Even after neron upgraded him he still doesn't have what it takes to go toe to toe with the people here)
7. Kurse (2X Thor version)(2X a god seems pretty cosmic to me but i don't know this character)
Thats all i could come up with. Sorry
Also i do not agree with the comment that sinister is only good from behind the shadows. He has taken on the full xmen force in front on combat on many occasions and come out strong. And without the summers brothers to injure him i can see him taking out a large portion of the people here. He's been shown to be very resistant to psionics in the past and his body adapts to counter most attacks except for the summers brothers energy blasts
Thanks for the listing buddy, but at this stage were only looking to kick off 3 of the above 6 Superman clones.
Originally posted by JPV>BW
Maestro
Cosmic Spiderman
Kurse
Count Nefaria
are all way too strong i'm not saying certain characters couldnt beat them but your TOC would be more level without them.
Were not looking for a 100% even TOC, were looking to find the best of the best of the SHWs (ones we didnt use for the first TOC) Is Thanos even with Wonder Woman, or Doomsday equal to Dr. Strange? No, but theyre all SHWs and in a TOC the stronger rise and the weaker fall. Thats exactly what were looking for here.
Characters like Maestro, Kurse and Morg are exactly what this TOC needs, not taken away.
Originally posted by JPV>BW
The Maestro has the exact same abilities as the Hulk but at a higher level due to the years of gamma absorption. And he is pretty smart as well. So basically he is to the hulk what KCsuperman is to superman
Though keep in mind hes not as KC Superman level. When I pitted Maestro to battle regular, current day, Superman Superman still won, or TIED, cant remember which. That to me doesnt say Maestro is too powerful for the SHWs (though a High End one) if Superman fits just fine here.
Originally posted by green_knight
Bizarro
Mon-El
Nefaria
So why is this your last tournament DTM?
Well, by the time this one here is done, itll be about 16 or 17 straight TOCs. Thats quite a bit really. Also, there are many others here doing their own TOCs, and Im sure Ill still do the occassional VS Battle, so I wont be gone forever here. :)
Yes, please remember that your 3 Superman clone kick offs should consist of 2 DC and 1 Marvel. A list that doesnt have this will not be accepted at all. Thanks.
Allright for the 3 character kickoff i choose to remove
Mon-el
Count Nefaria
Bizarro
deadalus13
04/12/2005, 05:14
Sorry about the earlier post. For some reason, I didn't catch the 2 DC, 1 Marvel rule. Here is my list of who to boot taking that into account:
Bizarro
Ultraman
Hyperion
Last chance for voting for the above asked question, after this well have our FINAL SHW Comics TOC Battle List.
Well, thanks for all of those who helped with this Final TOC for myself, which created the below listed FINAL LISTING of the Marvel/DC Comics SHW TOC Part 2.
SHW COMICS TOC (PART 2)
1. Jean Grey (70’s Phoenix)
2. Absorbing Man
3. Maestro
4. Kurse
5. Hercules (with Mace)
6. Nova
7. Morg (pre magical well enhancements)
8. Wonder Man
9. Brainiac
10. Mon-El
11. Supergirl
12. Guy Gardner (Yellow Ring)
13. Super Woman
14. Captain Atom
15. Ultron
16. Kalibak
17. Power Girl
18. Ulik
19. Validus
20. General Zod
21. Annihilus
22. Loki
23. Graviton
24. The General
25. Count Nefaria
26. Beta Ray Bill
27. Despero
28. Mongul
29. Orion
30. Amazo
31. Dr. Fate
32. Green Lantern (Alan Scott)
Overall I think weve come up with a GREAT listing of Low, Mid and High End SHWs which overall are very comparable for our First Comics SHW TOC character listing (which is a good thing, as youll eventually see. :) )
Jackygobang
04/21/2005, 00:05
Oh man, I wish I had seen this. DTM, my man, king of the hill, top of the class, manliest man within a continental radius, I hereby swear to vote in every round of your last ToC hurrah. Not that it means much, but I could join some of the select few to vote in both your first Tournament and your last.
Jesus, i'm sounding like you're going to crash your fighter into the alien mothership instead of retiring from battle threads.
HA, great to have you aboard JGB, we can use all the support we can get. :)
Prof. Aragorn
04/21/2005, 14:32
Originally posted by Jackygobang
Jesus, i'm sounding like you're going to crash your fighter into the alien mothership instead of retiring from battle threads.
But we are fighting the alien mothership right?
If anybodys wishes to talk about or discuss the above FINAL LIST of the Comics SHW TOC, please by all means. Think a character there is Unbeatable by ANYONE else, or someone couldnt defeat a SINGLE foe above, voice your opinions and well see what we can do. Overall I think weve got a Great Listing, though Im always interested in hearing others opinions.
Hey are we NOT allowed to search for threads older than this new upgrade for HCRealms?
I wanted to do a Search on all of the 6 Terrains we first used in our very first Comics TOC and I cant see to find any of them, possibly because every thread older than this update is gone.
Does anyone know if this is true, and furthermore, does anyone still have the list of Terrains for that series of TOCs way back when?
This next TOC is rapidly coming up, so Id like to see about working on them today (Sunday here) when I have the time.
Thanks all.
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