View Full Version : Buffy vs. Batman
gladiator1518
04/08/2005, 16:16
Batman against Buffy the vampire slayer tv version. IN a fight, of course. Not a beauty contest!*wink*. NO PREP.
webtroll
04/08/2005, 16:26
Well that one is tough. Batman has got the smarts and the willpower, but Buffy is stronger and has a knack for pulling her bacon out of the fire time and time again, against seemingly immeasurable odds. I mean the only thing that could beat Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a move to UPN! ;)
But being as Batman would know to do that and Bruce Wayne would have the influence with the media moguls, I would say Batman after a lengthy brawl.
This match is actually pretty close. Buffy DEFINATELY has the edge in strength, durability, endurance and speed, where Batman has the toys, experience and the intellect.
All in all, with no prep and only what they normally carry with them (as Buffy would have a few stakes, maybe an axe or sword, and a crossbow) Id say this match could go to either.
If Batman loses to Batgirl, I might very well cast my vote for Buffy to defeat the Dark Knight. By the end of the series, she really is THAT GOOD.
Oh, is there terrain in here, or is it just a big open arena? If no terrain Im sticking with Buffy, if there is and Batman can stealth I may very well switch my vote.
gladiator1518
04/08/2005, 16:59
I hadn't considered the type of terrain. Let's say it's two different battles. One is in a big open arena and the other is in Gotham City. Still no prep for either fight. Both fights take place during the night.
DeonBeast
04/08/2005, 17:00
If Batman didn't know about Buffy ahead of time he wouldn't be expecting slayer strength and speed. He might take one or two shots of enhanced strength kicks and punches which could prove to be his downfall.
His skill in the martial arts and his utility belt are the two things that he has an advantage on. But he's not an enhanced human.
I'd have to give Buffy the win more than 50% of the time.
chase_jyd
04/08/2005, 17:06
Big open area, no prep or foreknowledge - Buffy in a close match.
Gotham - Batman, in a match that isn't even close.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:07
With absolutely no prep time Batman wins. Buffy relies on her team to help her plan and strategize. It really isn't her gift.
Batman is at peak human performance, and has a mind and will to use it against her.
As well Buffy isn't a very experienced fighter. She may have like what 8 years of martial arts training. Batman has several years over her.
Technique will beat strength more often then not.
Last we aren't even getting into Batman's utility belt.
Buffy is going to have to deal with nerve gas, smoke clouds, and more.
gladiator1518
04/08/2005, 17:09
OK. What if the fight in Gotham is during the daytime? Could Buffy give Batman a run for his money then?
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:11
DeonBeast: Buffy is fighting a human. She isn't going to go all out a first. She isn't a killer. (at least not a human killer.)
Technique is so much more important in close combat than strength. Batman will be able to deflict and avoid most of her attacks.
She is strong and fast, but Batman has dealt with stronger and faster.
Also Batman doesn't underesteemate opponents. If he did he would be dead. On the street you don't have the luxury. Batman may not know what to expect from Buffy, but that doesn't mean he will take it easy on her.
Actually, Buffy is one of the main strategic minds in her group, and has proven on many more than one occassion how she can think and plan on the go,
Sheesh G, the second terrain filled arena is Gotham City, Batmans home turf?
Maybe a more neutral, but terrain filled, arena would be better (along with the open arena), otherwise why dont we have Batman fight Buffy in Sunnydale where she would have the huge advantage?
DOOMSTRIKER
04/08/2005, 17:14
oh my god.... no way, Batman wins this, thats all there is to it, your talking about that big forehead chick from that terrible show, the one who cant actually fight so all the fight scenes look way lame, man.Batman may not have a meta-human enhanced strength, but he has WAY more experience, if he can beat people like killer croc, Bane (usually) and Ra's al-Ghul, then he lays out Buffy with the quickness
sorry if this post came out angry, but man what the hell do people see in that goofy show, that cheese ball Buffy movie from back in the day was better than this show, and that movie was not very good
ok go ahead and flame me now, i expect it, as I'm the last man on the planet, it seems, who hates that show
chase_jyd
04/08/2005, 17:14
No, its not just the Gotham at night that makes the difference. Fighting in Gotham means Batman knows every inch of his territory, where to hide, where he can fight from higher ground, where he can snipe from, where he can set ambushes, etc.
Its also a tremendous mobility advantage. With his swingline and familiarity, he can get around to position himself better than Buffy.
vs.almost anyone, fighting in Gotham is a huge edge to Batman. Its only the fact that the other fight would be absolutely ideal to Buffy, nothing to limit her use of her full speed and agility or grant him cover or anything to use tactically that means I give the fight to her.
Batman is the superior fighter, even as good as she is. But she is good enough that if there's literally nothing for him to use to tip an advantage back his direction, I think Bats would lose. And even then it'd be close.
Put any other factor in Batman's favor, he wins.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:18
DTM:
Actually if we are following the television show, then Buffy would most likely only have a couple of stakes. Very rarely does she bring out the heavy weapons unless she is going after a big demon.
It helps with her element of surprise, and carrying those types of weapons is highly illegal.
DTM also Batgirl beats Batman because her technique is better than Batman's. That is Batgirl's main gimmick as a character, she can read others body language, and predict there style. She therefore can use a more superior technique in fighting.
If you were going to compare Buffy to a Batman character I would say she is a slightly less powerful Bane without nearly the skill or technique of Bane.
gladiator1518
04/08/2005, 17:21
Originally posted by DTM
Sheesh G, the second terrain filled arena is Gotham City, Batmans home turf?
Maybe a more neutral, but terrain filled, arena would be better (along with the open arena), otherwise why dont we have Batman fight Buffy in Sunnydale where she would have the huge advantage? Alright, DTM. I'll let you pick the terrain according to what you think is fair.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
With absolutely no prep time Batman wins. Buffy relies on her team to help her plan and strategize. It really isn't her gift.
Yes...relies on her team when fighting seemingly invinclible
Gods and Demons.
Batman is at peak human performance, and has a mind and will to use it against her.
And this is still weaker than a typical vampire.
As well Buffy isn't a very experienced fighter. She may have like what 8 years of martial arts training. Batman has several years over her.
She has engaged in mortal combat every single night for 8
years. I think she's picked up some experience.
Technique will beat strength more often then not.
Well on top of her strength, and speed advantage, she is
not utterly devoid of skill.
Why do you think fighting contests are split up into weight
classes by the way? If technique is all that matters?
Last we aren't even getting into Batman's utility belt.
Buffy is going to have to deal with nerve gas, smoke clouds, and more.
So her experience with blind fighting, and the ability to hold
her breath will be useful here then.
The only way this fight isn't close is if Batman gets prep time,
or if he gets home field advantage.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
Also Batman doesn't underesteemate opponents. If he did he would be dead. On the street you don't have the luxury.
Yeah...if he went around under estimating his opponents,
well...he'd end up with a broken back or something.
DeonBeast
04/08/2005, 17:28
But if Batman doesn't know the danger Buffy is he would be in an insane amount of trouble.
Personally I don't find 5'3 tall skinny blonde women to be very threatening... and this one can shatter stone with her fists. And she's no slouch in martial arts. She's no Batman though.
And Buffy can take a massive amount of punishment. She fights superstrengthed opponents all the time and comes out of it without a mark. Batman's placement of hits will be the only deciding factor.
Reflexes. Wow. Buffy has amazing ones. She can grab arrows from the air, divert thrown daggers, all as part of standard training. When focused she can be near untouchable (take the Calib fight in the last season). This will be another major obstacle for the Dark Knight.
There are two ways I could see Batman taking this... some form of gas or a pressure point.
There are far more ways for Buffy to take the win here.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:30
It should also be noted that Batman when he patrols doesn't know who or what he is going to run into.
Will he face poison from the Joker, he better have antedotes available.
Will he face Bane, he better have some smoke clouds to level the playing field and perhaps some nerve/tear gas to help with the advantage.
How about Killer Croc? A flashbang can blind him.
The point I am making is Batman will have the utilitizes needed to elminate all of Buffy's advantages.
With planning Buffy might have a better chance because she could pull her buddies for magical defenses, data on Batman, and weapons.
And when Buffy is on patrol she has to be ready for anything
from any plane or reality she could possibly imagine.
Your point?
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:36
NotYou: Batman broke his back after a long night and hard battle that ended with a battle with one of his toughest opponents period.
And 5'3 tall skinny blonde women...
Batman has dealt with and understood the dangers of women.
Catwoman
Harley Quin
Poison Ivy
They are all dangerous women. Batman won't be sexiest and assume she isn't dangerous.
Batman also exists in a world were a Supergirl and Powergirl exists. Two women that don't look dangerous but are.
It doesn't fit Batman's character for him to just completely underesteemate an opponent.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
DTM:
Actually if we are following the television show, then Buffy would most likely only have a couple of stakes. Very rarely does she bring out the heavy weapons unless she is going after a big demon.
It helps with her element of surprise, and carrying those types of weapons is highly illegal.
DTM also Batgirl beats Batman because her technique is better than Batman's. That is Batgirl's main gimmick as a character, she can read others body language, and predict there style. She therefore can use a more superior technique in fighting.
If you were going to compare Buffy to a Batman character I would say she is a slightly less powerful Bane without nearly the skill or technique of Bane.
Personally I think youre sorely underestimating Buffy fighting skills. She is THE TOP level fighter in her entire world, and with characters like Angel, Spike, Faith and how many other incredibly superhuman level fighters and foes, I highly think Buffy is certainly in a Batman level class in HTH fighting. Again, by the end of her season she is THAT good. (even defeated Dracula in combat :) )
She may not have the fighting styles (not skills) of Batgirl, but she is LEAGUES stronger and tougher than her, so in the end Id say it evens out.
And I also think if Batman gets his entire ultiility belt, that Buffy should get more than 2 pieces of wood, ala stakes. In patrol she pretty much always has either an axe or sword with her, and possibly a crossbow or other ranged weapon.
No way is she taking Batman in Gotham City, but in an open area she has my support a bit more than not, and in a neutral city area I think youre looking at one very close match.
DeonBeast
04/08/2005, 17:39
Prep time and knowledge only benefits Batman. It's how he wins. Batman vs Predator for example. He had no idea what he was facing and he was nearly killed... and that would be something Buffy takes out on a weekly basis.
But given a chance to prepare and knowledge of what he would be facing, Batman would more than likely win a majority of the time.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:40
NotYou: And Buffy is usually completely taken by whatever it is that crosses over the first time.
Buffy usually finds away in round two to win, after she has some brainstorming and educating.
I have watched all of Buffy and more often then not, when she is taken by surprise (unless it is a vampire, or familar opponent) she is beaten in the first round.
Originally posted by gladiator1518
Alright, DTM. I'll let you pick the terrain according to what you think is fair.
Oh I didnt mean I wanted to pick a terrain, but putting Batman against Buffy IN Gotham is WAY WAY too much advantage for Batman. Almost as bad as putting them together to fight in Sunnydale, where Buffy knows nearly every inch.
Id suggest some generic setting, standard city or town or setting, not a terrain perfect for one character and horrible for another.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:43
DeonBeast: Buffy takes on technilogically superior aliens with futuristic advanced weapons?
Umm, NO!!!
Buffy has never faced an opponent similar to the Prediator at all.
And often times when Buffy does face the big villians it is a complete team effort that allows her to overcome the odds and win.
DOOMSTRIKER
04/08/2005, 17:43
oh, god, really what are you people thinking, are we watching the same Buffy show? come on, without Hollywood smoke and mirrors, this girl couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it the size of Texas, and if your all counting these special effects as what is really going on, then you should take into account every little thing Batman has ever done in his comics, even if it doesn't make any sense, that way its all squared up
Originally posted by SpakSpang
NotYou: And Buffy is usually completely taken by whatever it is that crosses over the first time.
Buffy usually finds away in round two to win, after she has some brainstorming and educating.
I have watched all of Buffy and more often then not, when she is taken by surprise (unless it is a vampire, or familar opponent) she is beaten in the first round.
I strongly disagree here. Unless its The Big Bad, Buffy usually handles her foe the first time around. And if she doesnt, you bet she takes it down later and that the foe is some serious power behind it.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
DeonBeast: Buffy takes on technilogically superior aliens with futuristic advanced weapons?
Umm, NO!!!
Buffy has never faced an opponent similar to the Prediator at all.
And often times when Buffy does face the big villians it is a complete team effort that allows her to overcome the odds and win.
Adam ring a bell. :) True she needed help to defeat him in the end, but he was a good deal stronger and more durable, and probably smarter, than your average Predator.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
NotYou: And Buffy is usually completely taken by whatever it is that crosses over the first time.
Buffy usually finds away in round two to win, after she has some brainstorming and educating.
I have watched all of Buffy and more often then not, when she is taken by surprise (unless it is a vampire, or familar opponent) she is beaten in the first round.
What you are describing is the situation for every hero.
Batman included.
If however she were as lame as you suggest, she wouldn't be
walking away from round 1
But she does.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:48
DTM: That is where you are wrong. She isn't the top level fighter in her world. She was beaten by Angel before, and beaten by Spike before, Glory beat her, Adam beat her, Willow beat her, Faith has beat her.
Everyone has beaten Buffy at one time or another it seems like.
And even if you decide to say she is the highest level fighter in her world. Her world exists of SUNNYDALE. One single town with a Hellmouth on it.
Batman's main home is Gotham, however he has fought with the Justice League around the world.
Perhaps if this was a fight of Batman without any utility belt I would give the win to Buffy, but even still I think it would be close. She is still a girl that took up fighting as a teenager when she was called to be the one.
Batman has trained since he was a child to be the ultimate weapon against crime.
DeonBeast
04/08/2005, 17:51
I'm just curious how it would play out...
Tiny blonde Buffy is walking down a dark alley... what would Batman do if he's never met her before? Toss gas bombs at her? Nope. He'd do the dark and scary Batman entrance to try and make her quake in her boots. Which she wouldn't. They would take it hand to hand. By that point in time it would already be too late for Batman. He'd come to realize that the regular hits he sent her way weren't doing anything major and that she was hitting REALLY hard and fast for a girl her size. He'd increase the intensity of his hits, but it still would be to no avail. He doesn't have the strength to take her down. The gauging of her in hand to hand would give her enough time to deal enough damage for him not to be able to get back on top.
Catwoman is dexterity but not strength or fortitude. Buffy is all 3.
Harley Quinn, dexterity and tricks.
Poison Ivy, tricks.
What's his record on straight one on one fights with superstrong, fast and tough he's met unprepared? Usually it has him retreating and coming back later with a plan.
Originally posted by DOOMSTRIKER
oh, god, really what are you people thinking, are we watching the same Buffy show? come on, without Hollywood smoke and mirrors, this girl couldn't fight her way out of a wet paper bag with a hole in it the size of Texas, and if your all counting these special effects as what is really going on, then you should take into account every little thing Batman has ever done in his comics, even if it doesn't make any sense, that way its all squared up
Or we could base Batman's fighting ability on Adam West.
Don't deliberately miss the point, just because the actress is
not as strong and fast and skilled as the character.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:51
Umm.
Buffy channelled all the spirits of past Slayers into her to battle Adam.
Regular Buffy couldn't even touch Adam. Regular Buffy wouldn't be able to do anything to him.
Once again. This is why I say Buffy benefits from prep time. Her show always had a heavy emphasis on team work. Buffy felt alone in her mission, but she was successful because of the skills of her friends.
Rokk_Krinn
04/08/2005, 17:54
It's not like Buffy isn't familiar with stealthy creatures of the night and all...I mean, she dated the guy with the Batman-fetish (aka: Angel) for how many years? :)
Uhm...yep, we're counting the "imaginary world of television"with special effects when figuring out vote, just as you're counting the way the artists and writers portray Batman. I mean, Buffy's a fictional character, just like the Bat ergo you have to consider her portrayed capabilities, not the fact that it's all imaginary (as I'm pretty sure Sarah Michelle-Gellar could take down a Batman comic...now, her husband he might have trouble but Sarah, eh I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. :) )
Now think of it this way: if Batman gets taken down too hard (accidentally) Superman, Nightwing, etc. go bring Buffy to jail. If Buffy gets taken out too hard, well then you have Ripper, Dark Willow, Spike, etc. to deal with - on support teams alone, I think Buffy wins. ;)
I also don't count 8 years of nightly combat as "inexperienced". Buffy's fought just as wide a variety of foes as Batman, especially if you take the novels into account.
Rokk_Krinn
04/08/2005, 17:57
Originally posted by SpakSpang
Umm.
Buffy channelled all the spirits of past Slayers into her to battle Adam.
Regular Buffy couldn't even touch Adam. Regular Buffy wouldn't be able to do anything to him.
Once again. This is why I say Buffy benefits from prep time. Her show always had a heavy emphasis on team work. Buffy felt alone in her mission, but she was successful because of the skills of her friends.
Batman wouldn't have come close to touching Adam either. Let's be honest here - Adam was far faster and powerful than any human - even one at peak potential - could be (he was after all faster and stronger than the superhuman Buffy). So, no, Batman would not have defeated Adam in "Round 1" - he would have had to do the same thing as Buffy: prep time, support group, resources, etc.
Originally posted by SpakSpang
DTM: That is where you are wrong. She isn't the top level fighter in her world. She was beaten by Angel before, and beaten by Spike before, Glory beat her, Adam beat her, Willow beat her, Faith has beat her.
Everyone has beaten Buffy at one time or another it seems like.
And even if you decide to say she is the highest level fighter in her world. Her world exists of SUNNYDALE. One single town with a Hellmouth on it.
Batman's main home is Gotham, however he has fought with the Justice League around the world.
Perhaps if this was a fight of Batman without any utility belt I would give the win to Buffy, but even still I think it would be close. She is still a girl that took up fighting as a teenager when she was called to be the one.
Batman has trained since he was a child to be the ultimate weapon against crime.
I didnt say she was UNBEATABLE, I said she was the Top Level fighter in her world (and lets face it, for everytime Angel or Faith or Spike beat her, she beat them back 2 or 3 or 10 times as often) Batman doesnt get beat? Sure he does, neither is Unbeatable, and it was never my intent to suggest that.
She trains to fight CONSTANTLY, and unlike Batman, at a superhuman level, so Im certainly not going to say shes simply some Black Belt and leave it at that. Not saying shes a Better HTH fighter than Batman, but shes certainly within a class range to him (something Batman cant say back to her strength, endurance, toughness and possibly even speed)
So Sunnydale doesnt impress you? The beings and Devils and Gods she has fought in Sunnydale make it just another Hellmouth? Sunnydale was THE Hellmouth, its way it attracted all of the vastly powerful beings to it in the first place. Sunnydale vs Gotham City, I might very well give the edge to Sunnydale as far as what is the more dangerous location.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 17:59
Batman either Long Halloween or Dark Victory can't remember which had Batman complete take
The Joker, Two Face, Riddler, Cat Woman, Mr. Freeze, and I think Solmon Grundy in a surprise attack.
He was able to quickly and effectly nuter all of them.
Batman can take a powerful hit.
Lets ask how Buffy would react.
Batman comes down, and she attacks. Batman counters a few strikes and Buffy is just getting warmed up. She eventually lands a hit, and Batman appear to be down.
However, he gets back up. Now Batman knows what he is dealing with. Before she reacts Batman lays down some smoke clouds and starts going for pressure points.
Buffy blind tries to rely on her hearing and instinct, but Batman is too good. She starts to take hits, and they are hurting bad. Eventually the smoke clears and Buffy is still standing...but hurt badly.
Batman decides to move to another approach. Pulls out a few batrangs. Buffy dodges them with no problems. Unfortunately they were distractions for the nerve gas.
Batman moves in again, and this time finishes off Buffy.
Not to mention that Glory, Adam and Dark Willow would DESTROY an unprepared Batman.
So the fact that Bufy "lost" to those characters doesnt diminish her ability to fight Batman in my eyes.
SpakSpang
04/08/2005, 18:04
DTM: I understand they are both beatable.
I am just arguing that this isn't a straight up close combat fight. Batman has several options in combat...that frankly Buffy doesn't have.
Batman can battle from a distance with his weapons.
He can try to incap. her with knock gas, his grapples, or more.
He can distract her with smoke bombs, flash bombs.
He can use nerve gas to effect her system and strength.
Batman has options. Buffy won't.
Read my story. I think Buffy will last a while in this battle...but it won't be Buffy's win.
Rokk_Krinn
04/08/2005, 18:08
Buffy can "blind fight" against vampires and spirits - beings with no heartbeat, breathing, or other normal sounds that even someone as stealthy as Batman can't help but have. I'm pretty sure smoke isn't that big of a deterrant.
Yep, she sometimes lost combat - usually when her head wasn't in it - but same with Batman - he's lost many many fights.
Oh, and DTM - Dark Willow and Glory would destroy a prepared Batman too. :) I mean, really what's he going to do against Willow when she goes, "Bored now" and flays his skin with the wave of her hand? :)
Buffy has been shown, almost easily, to catch ranged attacks, even ones she doesnt see. As for smoke or gas, she can simply hold her breath for 5 seconds and leave the area at superhuman speeds. Batmans bombs have an area of effect, and unless theyre fighting in a boxing ring, Buffy will have the speed and brains to run out of that area ASAP. This will come down to close combat more than not, and I dont see an unprepared Batman defeating Buffy in combat more than not.
Rokk_Krinn
04/08/2005, 18:10
Originally posted by SpakSpang
Batman can battle from a distance with his weapons.
So can Buffy. Even if the fight is rigged so that she only has stakes, she's still superhumanly strong and fast - she can pinpoint nail something with those spikes potentially faster than Batman's brain can even register the incoming.
Oh, and DTM - Dark Willow and Glory would destroy a prepared Batman too. I mean, really what's he going to do against Willow when she goes, "Bored now" and flays his skin with the wave of her hand?
I know, this is what I said myself just a few posts above this one. :)
Rokk_Krinn
04/08/2005, 18:13
Originally posted by DTM
Oh, and DTM - Dark Willow and Glory would destroy a prepared Batman too. I mean, really what's he going to do against Willow when she goes, "Bored now" and flays his skin with the wave of her hand?
I know, this is what I said myself just a few posts above this one. :)
Not quite - you said they would destroy an unprepared Batman. I'm just mentioning that even prepared, he's toast. :)
Really, the only thing that could pull it for Bruce is gas, and
as DTM says, that is very limited.
Before she even had so much as a moments training, she
caught a knife thrown at her head.
Make it more interesting:
Buffy vs Vampire Batman.
I'll vote for Buffy. She has a lot of expirience, strength, and has taken down people a lot tougher the Bats. My vote...
BUFFY THE VAMPIRE SLAYER
gryphonred
04/08/2005, 18:24
Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Not quite - you said they would destroy an unprepared Batman. I'm just mentioning that even prepared, he's toast. :)
I don't think a prepared Batman is going to fight fair against ANYONE.
A PREPARED Batman has taken out, Superman, Darksied, Predators, Aliens, and countless others. Prepared, on one in the Buffy Universe in safe. :devious:
DOOMSTRIKER
04/08/2005, 18:37
oh man whatever, ok fine Buffy beats Batman into a pulp, he cant hurt her because she's to tough, he cant hit her because she's to fast, he cant outsmart her because uhh.. she's a super duper vampire hunter, he cant out fight her because she's to quick, his gadgets are ineffective because she's to strong/fast/well trained....
ok so tell me again why this thread was even posted if big-forehead is so clearly superior to Bats?
does she really even belong in the same class as Bats then? isn't she more on a Spiderman level? (speed, strength, cunning) because after all Batman is just some normal human in tights who has never fought incredibly deadly foes:rolleyes:
Maybe you ought to go back and actually read the posts instead
of just skimming through them.
DeonBeast
04/08/2005, 18:59
The same things that could knock Buffy out can just as easily be turned on him... Buffy reacts quite well to things tossed her way and in the time it takes for Batman to reach for something on his belt Buffy can be prepped or have given him a good shot in the melon.
The only times that Buffy needs the prep time is for opponents who are immune to conventional beatings... saying that she has to go get information on every foe she faces is ridiculous. And saying she would need prep time for against Batman is absurd. He has no immunities and is a human. Very breakable. The prep time is more for villians that require a mystic ritual, a special sword or specific weakness to even affect.
In blind fighting I think Batman would be badly surprised.
DOOMSTRIKER
04/08/2005, 19:00
oh i did READ the posts there guy, and so far everyone thinks Batman will lose fairly easily with the exception of a few who said it would be a close fight but he would still lose, and even those people would probably still vote Buffy over Batman even if they were in the heart of Gotham on a dark stormy night, and they would just say "i vote Buffy" and not give a reason. so i go back to the question why not do a Buffy Vs. Spiderman fight, it seems way more balanced, hmm come to think of it, maybe it should be a Buffy vs. Venom thread just to even out the votes
(it would be crazy fan boys vs. crazy fanboys, with flaming all around, awesome)
Care to use quote?
I remember things differently.
DeonBeast
04/08/2005, 19:05
Spiderman would kick the #### outta Buffy.
gladiator1518
04/08/2005, 19:14
Originally posted by DeonBeast
Spiderman would kick the #### outta Buffy. I agree. Unless Buffy has LOTS of ONE-SIDED prep.
Originally posted by DOOMSTRIKER
oh i did READ the posts there guy, and so far everyone thinks Batman will lose fairly easily with the exception of a few who said it would be a close fight but he would still lose, and even those people would probably still vote Buffy over Batman even if they were in the heart of Gotham on a dark stormy night, and they would just say "i vote Buffy" and not give a reason. so i go back to the question why not do a Buffy Vs. Spiderman fight, it seems way more balanced, hmm come to think of it, maybe it should be a Buffy vs. Venom thread just to even out the votes
(it would be crazy fan boys vs. crazy fanboys, with flaming all around, awesome)
You really need to cut down on the sugar there buddy. (Hyper Much)
Your obvious Buffy biase (or is that Sarah Michele Gellar biase) isnt helping you prove Batmans case at all, since it doesnt sound like youd vote Buffy to beat Aunt May with your constant Anti SMG rants.
DOOMSTRIKER
04/08/2005, 19:18
but... but Buffy Fights demons and devils, how could Spidey beat someone so awesome so incredible so stupendarific:cheeky:
protectorate
04/08/2005, 19:22
Without prep time, in an arena setting Buffy should take Batman most of the time. She took out an entire military squad of trained, armed, and experienced soldiers who knew what they were up against and it took her about 10 seconds to do so.
The problem is that Batman's hits have little to no effect so he has to go for his bag of tricks. Without prep most of that bag doesn't matter anyways. Antidotes to fear toxin and smiley gas just won't help. Flashbangs and knockout gas will be effective, but how many does he really get off before Buffy gets off a roundhouse to the head?
With prep time in an arena will be a different story. I'd give Batman about a 60-40 shot at that style battle. His utility belt will only be carrying stuff that could be useful. He would also be more likely to be wearing a slightly more padded/armored version of his batsuit. As long as he can dictate the flow and rythem of the fight he'll be in good shape, but if Buffy gets in a good solid blow Bruce could be in trouble.
Fighting in Gotham is a double edged sword. Batman knows every nook and cranny of the city, but Buffy has been noted many times as having exceptions improvisational skills. Drop her in the middle of Gotham and you've just handed her about a million weapons. That loose brick, a steel pipe, pr a 6x6 support beam are all ligitamate weapons for her. I'd still give it to Batman in Gotham, but I would guess he would be hurting by the time it was over.
BTW, all Slayers START with increadible fighting skills. The potentials went from clutze to badass in about 5 minutes when they were all called. As soon as Buffy became the Slayer she was probably about as good as Bruce was when he finished his training and started his one man war on crime. Since then Batman has advanced his technique, and Buffy has perfected hers. He probably has an edge in that he knows specific disciplenes such as pressure point blos, but in general skill I'd put them roughly equal.
Prof. Aragorn
04/09/2005, 00:45
Feh, if it were a back alley brawl, Batman will block some attacks, feel the punch hit through his armor (and he'd probably get thrown back a little, too), and rethink his fighting strategy. He'll try nerve strikes, and all these nasty close combat techniques that would bring down really tough brutes. Buffy gets hurt, but she took an uber vamp all by her lonesome. She isn't going down that easy. Either Buffy wins because Batman's too exhausted to keep blocking, or Bats wins because he eventually resorts to gas, and going all out in the brutality department.
As for Vampire Batman vs. Buffy-Batman easily, Buffy never fought a vampire that could turn into mist, or fly (well there's Dracula, but she melted like butter before him until she tasted human blood). Plus this Batman's probably as strong as her with a lot of close combat knowledge and if this is bloodstorm Batman, I doubt most of Buffy's exploit weakness attacks will do much (never tasted blood-remember). If it's Crimson Mist Batman, then Buffy doesn't even last long enough to throw a punch. Mist in, gut her, eat her, and take her head.
Plus this Batman's probably as strong as her with a lot of close combat knowledge
Note- Buffy is actually quite a bit stronger than a Vampire. She was better than Angelus, who has some 300 years of combat experiance on her. She also fights people like Glory and Caleb who are way stronger than any Vampire, as well as proto-vamps who are about as strong above Vamps as they are above us and staking them was described like having to penetrate a steel plate . Her exact strength varies a bit, but it is really high, and she would still be well above even a Vampire Batman if she was going all out.
fridayweb
04/09/2005, 13:13
Some good arguments on both sides in this thread (not you, DOOMSTRIKER). I'm a fan of both Buffy and Batman, so no bias here.
Though it's been sort of inconsistent on the show, Buffy has been shown to be vulnerable to certain injuries - back injuries in particular. Going on that, I'd say Batman would have the edge with nerve strikes and the like. Though Bruce is obviously vulnerable to back injuries too ;)
While Buffy's got general stamina and resilience, I think Batman's a better fighter (in universe-specific comparison) and smarter. Most of Buffy's big villains have simply been really, really strong. The Judge got blow'd up. The Mayor turned into a big snake that got blow'd up. Adam required major magical assistance to defeat, and he was just really strong. Glory was... really strong, and Buffy needed a magical hammer to augment her strength to win. Caleb was really strong, and Buffy needed the scythe to win. Buffy's weekly fights typically aren't against really smart and skilled opponents, and when they are she doesn't necessarily win her initial encounter.
So, as always (ask Grant Morrison!), Batman wins.
punisher_86
04/09/2005, 13:44
I'm a huge Buffy fan as well as a big Batman fan (I mean I am a "Marvel zombie" I even I think he is one of the coolest characters in comics,if not the coolest) so this is coming from someone who understands the characters' weaknesses and capabilities, in a no prep/open area fight, the fight would go to Buffy 7/10 times. Mostly because though she isn't near Batman's skill in hand-to-hand combat, she still is a very experienced fighter. Plus she is very strong, far more so that Bats; tough, again more so than Bats even with kevlar; and fast probably no par with Bats in this area. In a no prep/ urban enviroment it's more like 50/50, just cause that more akin to Bruce's element.
But in a prep/open area or urban area senario, no contest Batman wins 9/10 fights, cause let's face it he is Batman :)
Prof. Aragorn
04/09/2005, 20:37
Originally posted by Q99
Plus this Batman's probably as strong as her with a lot of close combat knowledge
Note- Buffy is actually quite a bit stronger than a Vampire. She was better than Angelus, who has some 300 years of combat experiance on her. She also fights people like Glory and Caleb who are way stronger than any Vampire, as well as proto-vamps who are about as strong above Vamps as they are above us and staking them was described like having to penetrate a steel plate . Her exact strength varies a bit, but it is really high, and she would still be well above even a Vampire Batman if she was going all out.
Wasn't vampire Batman a lot stronger, able to lift his car using only one hand with barely no effort (this was early on in Red Rain, so he'd be a bit stronger by the time it's Bloodstorm or Crimson Mist). Vampire Batman could warrant about as much superstrength as Spider-man would which is probably a bit stronger than Buffy's.
silent_rage
04/12/2005, 00:21
Before I vote, a quick question...
Does Buffy kill humans? I never really watched the show, so I'm not sure. So would she incapacitate Batman or go for the kill from the start?
In Gotham, Batman.
Otherwise, Buffy would catch him off guard and take him out. ONCE.
SpakSpang
04/15/2005, 11:06
silent_rage: No Buffy does not kill humans. It is against the moral code of a slayer. Has she...yes once. It traumatized her and she wanted to turn herself in to the police, and give up.
So Buffy wouldn't be using lethal force. She would be going for INCAP. moves.
The persont that argued Angelus is a good example of a skilled vampire warrior is using flawed logic. Angelus for a good portion of his life was cursed with a soul. He sunk into depression and just barely survived for 100s of years. For some reason Buffy pulled him out of it.
So does he have skills...yes. Is he some uber vampire with 300+ years fighting experience, no.
tyroclix
04/15/2005, 11:22
Buffy has the super-strength and reflexes.
Bats has the brains.
Buffy has a number of advantages when fighting monsters, vampires, demons, etc - they are usually one-minded, she's got a load of training and abilities that is designed to effect them.
Bats is more universal in his knowledge.
Straight out brawl, Buffy would eventually where Batman out.
With the use of his utility belt, Bats could win it pretty easily I'd bet.
tyroclix
04/15/2005, 11:25
The persont that argued Angelus is a good example of a skilled vampire warrior is using flawed logic. Angelus for a good portion of his life was cursed with a soul. He sunk into depression and just barely survived for 100s of years.
More to the point, Angelus was famous for being vicious - not for being some type of skilled warrior.
Hey, very cool fight gladiator, any chance for a Angel vs Lady Shiva brawl?
bootkneelee
04/15/2005, 16:42
Originally posted by tyroclix
Buffy has the super-strength and reflexes.
Bats has the brains.
Buffy has a number of advantages when fighting monsters, vampires, demons, etc - they are usually one-minded, she's got a load of training and abilities that is designed to effect them.
Bats is more universal in his knowledge.
Straight out brawl, Buffy would eventually where Batman out.
With the use of his utility belt, Bats could win it pretty easily I'd bet.
Haven't read the whole thread, but here's my 2 cents...
If Buffy is fighting Vampire Batman she has a chance, but regular Batman would beat her every day of the week.
gladiator1518
04/15/2005, 18:50
Originally posted by DTM
Hey, very cool fight gladiator, any chance for a Angel vs Lady Shiva brawl? Don't know much about Lady Shiva, but you can always start that thread yourself.
Oh I wouldnt want to step on your DC v Buffyverse toes now. :)
Lady Shiva is the best HTH combatant in all of DC, and never stops trying to prove herself against the best of the best.
Now keep in mind shes still human, so she doesnt have any superhuman abilities, but her fighting and close combat abilities are superior to pretty much any in DC.
Originally posted by DTM
Oh I wouldnt want to step on your DC v Buffyverse toes now. :)
Lady Shiva is the best HTH combatant in all of DC, and never stops trying to prove herself against the best of the best.
Now keep in mind shes still human, so she doesnt have any superhuman abilities, but her fighting and close combat abilities are superior to pretty much any in DC.
Not 100% true as Cassie has stalemated her, and she's never beaten Richard Dragon. Though with the new Richard Dragon series, that may change. And Green Arrow (Connor Hawke) has apparently moved up in skill. So right now Shiva is offically 2b, with 1 being Dragon, 2a being Batgirl.
Though this can change in the next two months as Shiva, Dragon, and Connor look to be in a tournament in the current Richard Dragon arc.
Lady Shiva would OWN Angel.
I don't even think that one would be close. A lot of Batman vs.... fights are close because of Batman's reluctance to kill. A superior fighter with no moral code against killing (like Shiva) would slap Angel around.
Buffy is noticably better than Angel, with his one advantage being that his body can take more abuse (stabbing him, or nerve-striking him, won't do as much).
Yeah, but Shiva can hand out a LOT of abuse.
I really don't think Angel would even land a good hit on Shiva.
She's far more brutal than Batman, without sacrificing any technique.
Personally Id take Angel over Shiva, though it would be darn close. Angel is an Amazing Superhuman Fighter, who fights opponents a good deal physically superior to him, and he wins most every time. Shiva will be a better fighter to him, but Angels experience and vast physical superiority I see winning the day. He is an amazing fighter, sure maybe not Shiva level, but his other bonuses will give him the overall advantage in the end.
His strength advantage isn't THAT great.
Shiva is way, way, waaaay out of his league.
Hes a good deal stronger than most vampires, and she doesnt even come close to vampire strength or toughness. How is Angels strength bonus over Shiva not THAT great? Not to mention a great amount of superhman vampire relfexes and speed (which he does use), over Shiva non superhuman own?
Angel has been fighting battles against superhuman foes that would eat Shiva alive for many years, like it or not, he is an Unreal fighter and combatant, and his vast physical superiority over here would help him earn the win more than not against her. Angel is FAR from some brainless, skillless, vampire.
Prof. Aragorn
04/23/2005, 22:53
I think Shiva would be too fast for Angel. He'd never see most attacks coming.
However Shiva's attacks are fatal, lethal, and deadly towards mortal opponents. Someone who cannot die would have an advantage.
I think Angel would win only because he can be stubborn, and because Shiva's style and skills aren't enough to drop the guy.
I don't even think Batman could take Angel-unless the-oh-so used prep time were a given.
Prof. Aragorn
04/23/2005, 23:01
I think Shiva would be too fast for Angel. He'd never see most attacks coming.
However Shiva's attacks are fatal, lethal, and deadly towards mortal opponents. Someone who cannot die would have an advantage.
I think Angel would win only because he can be stubborn, and because Shiva's style and skills aren't enough to drop the guy.
I don't even think Batman could take Angel-unless the-oh-so used prep time were a given.
Rokk_Krinn
04/24/2005, 00:54
I'm not sure Shiva is too fast for Angel. He's used to dealing with combat that happens at super-human speeds. Whether it's vampires or the Slayer, the majority of opponents we've seen fight Angel all move at unreal speeds. His reflexes and fight perceptions would probably be faster than even Shiva's. She can "go for the fatal nerve pinch" all she wants, but in this case, it's pointless. Breaking a bone is good for a few seconds - until Angel heals - and meanwhile he's still smacking her with the other arm or throwing her through a wall.
Rokk_Krinn
04/24/2005, 00:58
Sad part is...
I really hate Dead Boy. :(
Gotta agree with RK on this one. Angel has superhuman speed, and is used to dealing with foes that have superhuman speed. Lady Shiva has NO superhuman speed, possibly peak human, but thats about it. Saying shes too fast for Angel (who routinely catches projectiles at him, even from behind his back) isnt close to true.
Team_Lead
05/05/2005, 21:04
this is so gay, i don't even know where to start.
Everyone knows that Batman's +5 cape of virginity would protect him from all harm. Coupled with his boots of escaping, he would be the clear winner.
SpakSpang
05/06/2005, 11:04
I will vote for Shiva beating Angel. Yeah, Angel is going to be tough, but if Buffy can use the enviroment to make stakes and other weapons to kill vampires so can Shiva...and she is much more skilled.
I also see Batman having no problem taking out Angel...though it would be harder than the Buffy, Batman battle. The reason why is that I Batman carries those Flash Grenades...not only would that blind Angel the light would probably hurt him pretty badly.
Batman wouldn't have a problem killing an undead evil demon either.
protectorate
05/06/2005, 13:51
Angel beats Shiva 9 out of 10 times.
Why? He's willing to take damage (since he knows he can heal) to get his hands on his opponent. He will take hits from Shiva so that he can hit her himself. The difference is that his strikes will knock her accross the room and through the wall.
A good example was the Faith/Angel fight in season one of Angel's series. He knocks Faith into a wall, picks her up and throws her into the ceiling and back down again.
Lady Shiva is good, but when Angel get's his hands on her it's all going to be over.
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