Marvel/DC Team-Up: Round 1 Villian Match 1

[Maniac_nmt]

Greetings and welcome to the first season of our fine competition. I would like to welcome young and old to our intergalactic battles of some of the multi-verse's finest.

Two teams will battle it out, live, before your very eyes. In homage to the classic comic title "Marvel Team-Up" we have 'appropriated' heros and villians from the DC and Marvel universe to battle it out for the title.

Matches are to the kill or ko. Contestants are barred from leaving or removing their foes from the arena. Contact can be maintained with beings they are normally in contact with as part of their powers (ie Shazam can still use the Wisdom of Solomon, and Dr. Fate can still contact Nabu from inside his amulet, but they may not leave to the Rock of Ages, or to Dr. Fate's Tower, someone like Batman could not contact Oracle however). Each team will be given 45 minutes to prepare for the comming conflict. During that time neither team is permitted to alter the battlefield in any way, shape or form. Nor may they alter a team-mate (although individuals may alter themselves).

In corner number 1:

Nemesis Kid and Nimrod

In corner number 2:

Obsidian and Klaw

Today's match location:

Gotham City

This city has seen more that it’s fair share of crime in it’s long history. It’s slums and back alleys are home to criminals of all sort. From petty thugs, to super villains, usually one man wages a never ending war to stem the tide. Tonight the inhabitants have mysteriously vanished, leaving our competitors to battle it out over it’s vast cityscape

[Rokk_Krinn]

Well, Obsidian is tough and Klaw can take a _slew_ of damage. Unfortunately they're up against a pretty dangerous team. Nimrod is not only capable of wrecking havoc on a sonic being but his systems adapt to focus on an opponent's weakness. Nemesis Kid, on the other hand, appears "lightweight" but his power is huge - he literally instantly adapts a power based on an opponent's weakness (and if "tag-teamed" his powers either fail or more likely give him a "transport and escape" power). Basically Klaw and Obsidian have to face two opponents that can adapt to attack vulnerabilities. Nemesis Kid can be defeated alright if his opponents can work together good but not only am I uncertain Klaw and Obsidian could do so, but they also can't ignore Nimrod for very long. In the end I see something like Nimrod creating an "energy bubble" with a void inside of it to "imprison" Klaw (i.e. - shut down his sound powers and disperse him) while Nemesis Kid ties up Obsidian long enough for Nimrod to join the fray.

Vote: Nimrod and Nemesis Kid

[Prof. Aragorn]

Is this the Obsidian from Legacy or someone else?

Other than Klaw, I'm definately going to need more info on the combatants.

[Magnito]

Originally posted by Prof. Aragorn
Other than Klaw, I'm definately going to need more info on the combatants.
Ditto

[Maniac_nmt]

Nimrod is a pink and white sentinel model. It is designed to counter/adapt to/neutralize enemy powers. Nimrod has fought both Mastermold and the Xmen (being instrumental in the defeat of Mastermold via the Siege Perilous).

Obsidian is the Obsidian from Legacy. He draws power from the Shadow Dimmension. He is able to manifest a person's fears, phobias, and darkest secrets. He has twice battled, and succesfully defeated the JSA only to be defeated by his father, Alan Scott (Green Lantern/Sentinel). He has potent dark energy powers, and can make constructs (attached to himself) similar to a GL out of his 'Shadow Force'. It is possible to resist his corrupting influence, but it takes a powerful will (notably Captain Marvel, Starspangled Kid, and Alan Scott have all proven highly resilient or outright immune to his influence).

Can't help you with Nemisis Kid.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Yep, this is the same Obsidian that was in Legacy.

*Obsidian is the son of the Alan Scott (Green Lantern) and the GA Thorn (as in "Rose and Thorn"). Mentally unstable, his insanity has powered him up over the years via his connection to a "dark dimension". Essentially he can turn himself into a shadow being while controlling "dark energies" (a'la Marvel Darkforce manipulation). As a shadow being, he can be intangible and solid at the same time (i.e. - he can let a fist past through him while he clocks someone with his own fist). He's superhumanly strong and durable and can fly, plus he's able to increase his size to gargantuan proportions. His main usage of his "shadow self" was emotionally based - he could "envelope" someone in his shadowform (and now any shadows he projects) to subject them to intense depression and terror. He was recently defeated when he couldn't stand up to "Green Lantern's Light" but not before causing the JSA some serious troubles.

*Nemesis Kid is from the 30th Century and as his name states - pretty much a requirement in the Silver Age Legion comics :) - his power is to be a "nemesis". A gifted alchemist and scientist, he granted himself the ability to instantly analyze and adapt to a foe's super-powers or abilities, gaining power(s) that specifically "neutralize" the opponent by attacking a weak point or making himself immune to their abilities. For example, against Superman he'd turn into a being of Krytonite while against Professor X he'd become immune to psionics. He does have a serious problem with overconfidence to this power which, admittedly, led to his death (he was immune to the opponent's powers but didn't expect her to just out-and-out kill him when he wasn't superhumanly resilient).

*Nimrod is the Ultimate Sentinel. Sent from the future to track down and kill Rachel Summers, Nimrod is the epitome of Sentinel tech. Not only does it possess superhuman attributes - strength, resilience, reactions, etc. - but a wide variety of weapons including force & energy blasters, neural scramblers, force fields, etc. His regeneration powers make him tricky to put down if you do damage him but his biggest threat is that he adapts to threats. His Sentinel systems analyze superhuman opponents while his "malleable" form (he can also disguise himself as people, appearing perfectly human) builds weapon systems designed to take down the opponent. This has even enabled him to stop the Juggernaut.

[Prof. Aragorn]

Thanks for the info.

I can see Obsidian's ability to manifest emotion working great on Nemisis Kid and his overconfidence while Klaw can probably hold off Nimrod long enough so Todd and he can switch partners for the finishing strike.

Vote: Obsidian and Klaw

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by Prof. Aragorn
Thanks for the info.

I can see Obsidian's ability to manifest emotion working great on Nemisis Kid and his overconfidence while Klaw can probably hold off Nimrod long enough so Todd and he can switch partners for the finishing strike.

Vote: Obsidian and Klaw

Except that Nimrod will be immune to Obsidian's emotion control - and thus it would be smarter for him to go against Obsidian - while NK's power could just adapt to an "immunity" against emotional manipulation (if, for example, he was shining super-bright, Todd's powers won't be able to close in on NK to affect him...Obsidian has to be able to envelop his opponent and bright light chases away the shadows).

[GoldenAge]

I find it extremely difficult to vote against Obsidian...

So I won't.

Obsidian and Klaw take it with a combination of extra-dimensional might and sonically scrambled electronics.

[malreux]

Unless I miss remember, Nimrod could rebuild himself even if broken down to a molecular level, and could customize defenses to match his opponents as well as attacks.
I like poor Todd, but I have to vote for N&N. Nemesis can adapt to one as well as the other, and Nimrod would be immune to most of Obsidians emotional stuff, and after a hit or two to most of his more tangible powers. Likewise, while he might get rocked by Klaws first couple hits, he would adapt quickly. Either one could light and hit Todd with it. For sheer power and diversity, Nemesis and Nimrod for the win

[Rokk_Krinn]

There's another consideration here too - Todd is a mutant. Nimrod has the power to literally nullify a mutant's power (basically he has the equivalent of the beam designed by Forge which ended up turning Storm powerless for years - although Nimrod's doesn't last anywhere near as long from what we've seen). One mutant nullifier later, and the SHW is in serious trouble.

[michiganj24]

Im not sure if Todd really is a mutant. One for the simple fact that mutanst per se dont exist in Dc and two his power seems to come from the Darkforce or something like that which is mysticl in nature not a mutant or meta ability per se, which he was designated a mystic on his clixform.
The major problem for Obsidian is that he almost has a split personality Todd is a nice guy while Obsidian can be downright evil. without a friendly face to make Todd pull back I think he wins.
So KO team wins

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by michiganj24
Im not sure if Todd really is a mutant. One for the simple fact that mutanst per se dont exist in Dc and two his power seems to come from the Darkforce or something like that which is mysticl in nature not a mutant or meta ability per se, which he was designated a mystic on his clixform.
The major problem for Obsidian is that he almost has a split personality Todd is a nice guy while Obsidian can be downright evil. without a friendly face to make Todd pull back I think he wins.
So KO team wins

As far as Nimrod's powers would be concerned, Todd would be a mutant - someone born with powers not inherent in their species. In Todd's case they do tap into a "darkforce dimension" but even then that's not what his power was for most of his life. Originally he just became a living shadow and that was it.

As far as personalities go, wouldn't an emotionless mutant hunter-killer and a villain that literally enslaved a planet so he could kill one person that annoyed him be just as likely to "not pull back" in a fight?

Once again, I'm not sure how Obsidian and Klaw affect two opponents that can specifically counter their powers. All NK has to do is become a "mini-sun" that casts away shadows and Obsidian can't even use his powers on Nemesis. Klaw's sonic powers won't affect Nimrod - between his force-fields and built in resilience he'd be too tough to hurt even before his adaptation power kicks in - while Nimrod can just disrupt Klaw.

[GoldenAge]

What immunity does NK have against Obsidians mind control -- which I may add he can do at long range without line of sight?

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by GoldenAge
What immunity does NK have against Obsidians mind control -- which I may add he can do at long range without line of sight?

Whatever immunity his power lets him develop. NK's power is to become the exact "nemesis" of any one opponent at a time (yes, that means Klaw and Obsidian could double-team but not only will they not know that but they have Nimrod to deal with as well). Not to mention, Obsidian's "mind control" (which was really emotion manipulation except when he shadow-possessed people) still requires shadowstuff to work through - if NK is a "glowing sun" a'la Sun Boy, Obsidian's shadows won't penetrate the light to control NK.

[malreux]

Also, not that Nimrod is specifically immune to mental powers, is upper level marvel strength, and makes extensive use of force fields, as well as demonstrating magnetic powers, generic energy beams, a "disintegrator", and a synapse disrupting EMP beam. I know he doesn't seem to have much name recognition here, but honestly, I cant see Todd or Klaw finding any way to hurt him, and anything they could do, he would repair, fast. Likewise, Nemesis evolves powers to specifically target his enemy, like for instance, Light powers, or the ability to eat sound. I dont like to sound prejuidiced because I nominated this team, but I can't see ANY way for either of them to be hurt by their opponents

[malreux]

Also, note (which is what I meant above, not not) that Nemesis Kid evolves powers to defeat the opponent, not specific powers used, so it cant be overcome just by having a character with a lot of powers use multiple powers against him at the same time, and it can manifest offensive or defensive powers

[GoldenAge]

You guys have put me on the fence... but I'll need more (from other people) to change my vote.

[GoldenAge]

Q: How is Nemesis Kid not a SHW if he can take out people like Obsidian so easily and evolve the perfect powers to defeat his opponent... even Superman?

Personally, I still think that in a battle of power that Obsidian’s darkness trumps any light powers that Nemesis Kid can develop. Obsidian was strong enough to take over almost all of the JSA. His shadow-possession isn't combatable by normal or even tremendously powerful psyches.

[malreux]

There are two main reasons he isn't a shw. 1.) He pretty well autoloses if he gets double teamed. and 2.) the really embarassing way in which he died

Long story short, After he beat Karate Kid to death hand to hand (married to Princess Projectra), and conquered and terrorized Orando (the planet she is the princess of) with his Legion of SuperVillain buddies, Princess Projectra was all that was left to stand in his way. She started throwing horrific stuff at him, and he went ahead and immunized against illusions and went on with a rant about how pathetic she was, and while he was ranting, she broke his neck. He is very intelligent (he manufactured his powers, which based on their "alchemical" nature might be magical, hard to tell in the 30th century) and when he is focused his power gives him the ability to beat anyone, but he is prone to overconfidence and there are ways around his powers, just not many and not easy to do one on one. In most cases where we saw him fighting people, it gave him something offensive and defensive, this was just a bad mixture of cockiness, not paying attention, and some luck and berserker rage on Projectra's part.

[GoldenAge]

That cinches it.

While NK is fighting off shadows Klaw takes a second and blows him away - even while occupying Nimrod with a giant, solid-sound, winged elephant.

(remember, Klaw's solid sound creations have been depicted as fire and forget.)

[Rando]

What stops someone from just hitting Nemesis Kid over the head with a shovel? I'll also note that emotional control is hardly all Obsidian has going for him, he is like a shadowy green lantern he can draw energy from the shadow plane to produce constructs and effects according to his will. He doesn't just dissolve in light either, he can and has operated at full effect in the day, and the Cosmic Rod, which fires intense solar energy, was no more effective against him than against any other foe. He has also been known to swallow people and #### them into the shadow plane.

[deadalus13]

Are the contestants given knowledge of their opponents? They have 45 minutes of prep time, but do they know what to prep against? Or do they just use the time to get familiar with their teammate?

[WakandaMan]

I should add that the last time Klaw showed up (in Black Panther) he converted his body up to around Godzilla sized. Are Nemesis Kid and Nimrod really going to be able to take on two massive opponents? I get the felling they'd be squished.

[The Mad Titan]

when I first read the first post I thought Obsidian and Klaw and after reading all the posts so far I still say Obsidian and Klaw

[SyxxPac]

I'm going to vote for Obsidian and Klaw

[Q99]

What stops someone from just hitting Nemesis Kid over the head with a shovel?

If they're the only person fighting Nemesis Kid and he sees it coming? The fact that he'll be fast enough to get out of the way.


Very likely against Obsidian, he'll mimic his shadow control only a bit better, which'll also make him hard for Klaw to hurt as a fun side-effect of being shadow.

[Maniac_nmt]

Originally posted by malreux
Also, not that Nimrod is specifically immune to mental powers, is upper level marvel strength, and makes extensive use of force fields, as well as demonstrating magnetic powers, generic energy beams, a "disintegrator", and a synapse disrupting EMP beam. I know he doesn't seem to have much name recognition here, but honestly, I cant see Todd or Klaw finding any way to hurt him, and anything they could do, he would repair, fast. Likewise, Nemesis evolves powers to specifically target his enemy, like for instance, Light powers, or the ability to eat sound. I dont like to sound prejuidiced because I nominated this team, but I can't see ANY way for either of them to be hurt by their opponents

Nimrod, has been shown in the past, to be affected by psychics. He/they is/are 'sentient' (I say they as in some instances futures have shown multiple Nimrod class sentinels).

In fact, proof that he is 'sentient' comes when his code was merged with Mastermold allowing MM to see the Xmen and fight them more appropriately (at the time Xmen could not be seen by any form of technology. Nimrod being sentient allowed MM to percieve them part of the way into the fight).

[Maniac_nmt]

Current Totals:

Obsidian/Klaw - 5

Nemesis Kid/Nimrod - 2

No vote counted yet for Rando, Wakanda Man, and Q99. So depending on how they vote, this could tie pretty fast, or become very lopsided very fast. Please make it clear who you are voting for when you do so.

[supermangl1]

Based on the descriptions and thought in this battle, I'm giving my vote to Obsidean and Klaw, one quick double team and I think NK would go down.

winner = Obsidean and Klaw

[Rando]

So if Klaw starts blasting Nemesis and Kid makes himself immune to sound then Klaw has a construct throw a car at him what happens?

[The Red Baron]

I vote for Obsidain. lets see blot out the sun yea how are you going to defend against total darkness? Turn into light wait with Total darkness that wouldn't matter. not to mention that obsidian can take over peoples minds and bodys through his shadow puppets things

[malreux]

There was a good point in there, in that it would be quite characteristic of NK to just get a more powerful version of Todds powers, if that is what it would take to beat him. The way he killed Karate Kid so easily was by evolving better hand to hand combat and beating him to death. Im not quite sure how the "quick" double team would work either. Nimrod has everyone else involved outclassed in maneuverability, via teleports. Also, just to reiterate (because the way it works is a departure from how people with similar powers tend to work) it would not be a case of Klaw hits NK with sound and he becomes immune to sound, it would be more of a case of as soon as he faces Klaw, he is armed with a power to beat him, for instance the ability to absorb and eat sound ala Dazzler, or the ability to nullify sound and disintigrate him. It would take into account solid sound powers, ability to make controlled solid sound allies, etc.

[Rando]

So why didn't it take into account Projrectra's ability to strangle him to death?

[SumYungGai]

Originally posted by Rando
So why didn't it take into account Projrectra's ability to strangle him to death?
Because Projectra/Sensor Girl was a huge badass and wasn't given enough credit.

That was one of the few justifiable time a hero has killed a villain in my opinion.

I vote for Nemesis Kid and Nimrod. Both of these guys are powerhouses that are extremely adaptable and are unknown to their enemies. Granted, NK and Nimrod won't know their enemies either, but their adaptability will win the day.

Nemesis Kid broke Superboy's arm and beat Mon-El to a pulp. If he can manifest that sort of power, I think he'll take Todd down without a sweat.

[GoldenAge]

Personally I think that Nemesis Kid is in over his head. While the creeping doom of Obsidian's shadow sweeps across the buildings and streets of Gotham, turning all of it's citizens into the hateful denizens of the dark, Klaw will unleash a veritable zoo of solid sound constructs, each with a death-on for both the Kid and his robot sidekick.

If Nemesis Kid prepares against shadow, the sound constructs or Klaw himself will lay him low. If he's dumb enough to mount a sonic defense he will inadvertently become the third side of a triad that will destroy the once and future sentinel.

As far as Nimrod goes... man, I agree he's powerful. However, Obsidian has taken the full blast of Captain Marvels lightning straight to the head. It did significant damage but Obsidian was able to regroup as powerful as ever. I'm pretty sure that Nimrod doesn't have anything nearing the power levels of the God Wave (Shazam's Magical Lightning). He's stood toe to toe with the JSA. No disrespect to the X-Men, but they're nowhere near as powerful as the JSA.

[Rokk_Krinn]

If Nemesis is composed of shadows (as he might be if he's adapting to fight Obsidian), are sound blasts really going to do squat to him? :)

[GoldenAge]

Does he still hear when he's a shadow?

Besides, that might work for Obsidian, but for NK it's different. The sound constructs and sonic blasts are different attacks. Attacks which, by definition, NK has no defense against.

[Rando]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
If Nemesis is composed of shadows (as he might be if he's adapting to fight Obsidian), are sound blasts really going to do squat to him? :)

Obsidian can be affected by them as well as purely physical attacks, he isn't a ghost, he has a physical body, it is just usually inside a shadow construct, much like a Green Lantern would be inside a ring constrcut. That is essentially what Obsidian is, he inherited green lantern powers (or more correctly star heart powers) from Alan Scott, just like Jade, and in addition he got his emotional manipulation and extra shadow abilties due to the shadow stuff Alan had absorbed from Ian Karkull. So in short if Nemesis is mimicing him then he will be subject to sound attacks.

More importantly if NK "mimics" peoples powers, or develops the appropriatte counters for them rather, from seeing the character, and he gets mess up if assailed from multiple types of attacks then he is not going to be very effective. Given the expansive nature of both these guys powers it is very likely he (as well as Nimrod) will be assailed by both competitors at once, they don't have to pick and choose they can fight both characters simultaneously. Then Kid will be up a creek almost instantly, he is already in a position where he will have to be developing multiple counters, a predicament that can be stretched even further due to the wealth of options both Klaw and Obsidian's powers afford them. Nimrod I don't credit as a strong enough threat to take Obsidian, especially since Nimrod can be mentally affected. Seriously in Nimrod's first appearance he got ruined by Rogue as she absorbed Colossus and Nightcrawler's powers. That's a pretty reasonable threat but nothign compared to what Obsidian has battled against (and beaten).

put me down for team KO.

[deadalus13]

I am voting for Nemesis Kid and Nimrod.

NK should take out Klaw easily and probably quickly. There is no reason for Klaw and Obsidian to team up against NK, since they don't know anything about his powers or his weakness. Battles in comics usually involve a pairing up of combatants. Not only is this is the standard format, but Nimrod would work to keep it that way. Knowing his partner's limitations, Nimrod would attack Obsidian to draw his fire and keep his focus away from his teammate. Even if Nimrod can't take Obsidian himself, he can distract him until Nemesis gets done with Klaw. Obsidian will not be able to mind control Nimrod. Just because he is sentient, doesn't mean he can be mind controlled. In fact, DC (the universe Obsidian operates in) established that Plastic Man couldn't be mind controlled because his mind was no longer organic. Nimrod's mind is definitely not organic. In addition, a weapon that is designed specifically to take out mutants would have a built in protection to mind control, since mind control is a mutant power that would allow the weapon to be turned against its controllers. Look at it this way, if Nimrod could have been mind controlled, the future he came from wouldn't have been so bleak. All Nimrod has to do is keep Obsidian occupied for the minute or two it will take NK to finish off Klaw. Then the battle is pretty much over.

[Q99]

Oh yea, and in case I haven't made it clear, I'm also voting Kid and Nimrod.

Nimrod should be fairly good at forcing a one-on-one confrontation between him and one foe, and is smart enough to do so. On the flip side, Klaw isn't really a genius and Obsidian's at least as overconfident as Nemesis when he's evil. So I think they'll be able to pair off and win.

[Maniac_nmt]

Current totals:

Obsidian/Klaw - 7
Nemesis Kid/Nimrod - 5

[GoldenAge]

I like these battles Maniac!!! So far they all could go either way!!! Kudos!;)

[GAMURAI]

I'm going to vote obsidian and klaw as there powers do not require them to mantain concentration while performing multiple actions i.e. creating solid sound objects and darkness objects. And nimrod can have all the nullifying ability he wants but obsidian can just pull this dimension out from under nimrods feet.