Marvel/DC Team-Up: Round 1 Villians Match 2

[Maniac_nmt]

Well, as expected, the villians are definately getting down and dirtier then their fellows in the Hero's bracket. Still, it's a close match with Obsidian and Klaw holding a slightly better lead then the heros. Which brings us to Match 2 of the Villian Bracket.

As noted in the Hero's thread, voting for match 1 through 4 will stay open untill match 5 debuts. Where upon voting will stay open for match 5 through 8 untill the new round starts.

Without further jaw flapping, let me introduce match 2's masters of villiany.

Team 1
Ultraman and the Wrecker

vs

Team 2
Selene and Dr. Light

This match brought to from:

The Triskelion

With the sudden arrival of these two teams, the Triskelion has been put into emergency lockdown. A gleaming edifice to modern design, the Triskelion serves as the headquarters of SHIELD and the Ultimates. Work-out facilities, vast hangar bays, the best in modern communication, yes a real empire could be carved out using this as a home base. With the resources of SHIELD at your disposal, who knows the amount of good, or evil, you could accomplish

Let the games begin!

[icymatt]

Ultraman and Wrecker are two of the biggest beatsticks ever...but can't Selene mind control? Little more info needed.

[michiganj24]

http://www.selene71.coolfreepages.com/Bio/
This is a site i have used to check powers and its usally pretty good but icant find mind control

[GoldenAge]

For me it comes down to the calculated cruelty and brutality of Ultraman. Whereas Superman may have hesitated long enough for Selene to be a factor Ultraman will not.

I don't even care what the Wrecker and Dr. Light are doing... Ultraman trounces all three (then apologizes to Wrecker to regain his trust... even though he secretly knows that he'll sacrifice the poor lug in less than a second should the need arise).

Ultraman for the win (dragging the wrecker behind in his contrail)

[techdog]

Ultraman and Wrecker pummel the daylights out of selene and dr.light.

Hey, what happened to my suggestion of Deathstroke and Thanos as a villian team, you will need them to take on Ultraman. He should win a lot of fights on his own, its superman as evil boy.

[DTM]

Originally posted by GoldenAge
For me it comes down to the calculated cruelty and brutality of Ultraman. Whereas Superman may have hesitated long enough for Selene to be a factor Ultraman will not.

I don't even care what the Wrecker and Dr. Light are doing... Ultraman trounces all three (then apologizes to Wrecker to regain his trust... even though he secretly knows that he'll sacrifice the poor lug in less than a second should the need arise).

Ultraman for the win (dragging the wrecker behind in his contrail)

Believe it or not, I agree with GA 100%.

Ultraman is a Superman level beast, who could probably handle all 3 at once. Wrecker is tough, but not overly bright and, but in the end Ultraman relishes in destroying this team and rest assured, he will.

[The Mad Titan]

Ultraman wins oh yeah and wrecker

not even close

[GAMURAI]

I see it differently. Selene has been shown to be really powerful and hard to attack on a physical or mental level. Doctor light has been revised and is now truly awesome in my mind. He can take ultra mans heat vision from him and give it back to him amplified by a million. Selene and doctor light both fly, something that wrecker unfortunatly can't which i think is another advantage for there team. Also Doctor light just finished single handedly wiping the floor with the teen titans. My vote is for Doctor Light and Selene.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Dr. Light can sap all the heat vision he wants - and it's debatable if he could steal Ultraman's (he had to have Superboy stunned and accessable to get the heat vision - something Ultraman's not going to be here) - but that does do much when he takes a super-sonic punch to the head. Honestly, I have trouble even figuring out if there's a SHW on the Light/Selene team.

Vote: Ultraman and Wrecker

[Rando]

Does Ultraman share Superman's magic vulnerability? Selene can do magic, among other things.

[hail_eris]

Well, Selene is tough enough to have apparently killed all the Externals single-handedly. She's *at least* a few thousand years old, and may actually be the Greek goddess of the moon and dark magic. She's got a whole mess of physical buffs, including enhanced strength, speed (Quicksilver level over short distances), and toughness. In addition to her magic, she's got TK and energy manipulation powers, along with a form of mind control that gets even stronger if she's able to follow it with a psychic energy drain.

And this Dr. Light was intended to be the "reboot" version. That means that he's got control of all electromagnetic radiation. He can produce illusions, force fields, and constructs similar to those created by a Green Lantern ring. All he's got to do is hit Ultraman with white dwarf wavelength light (works on Ultraman the way a red sun works on Superman) and the fight is over.

Seriously, Light and Selene capitalize on the two biggest weaknesses that Ultraman has. If Martian Manhunter can drop Ultraman without too much trouble, these two shouldn't even break a sweat. Unless Wrecker sprouts wings, he's a non-factor. They can deal with him at their leisure. Unsurprisingly, I'm voting Dr. Light and Selene for the win.

[Prof. Aragorn]

So who's the heavyweight and superheavyweight of Selene and Light if Light is a mini Green Lantern while Selene is psychic Dracula?

If Selene possesses magic powers of some sort and Light can manipulate . . . well . . . light, then Ultraman isn't going to last long, he might pull out a win over one of the two, but he'll ultimately lose.

Vote: Selene the Black Queen and Dr. Light

[GoldenAge]

Unfortunately for Selene and Light they would never know what Ultraman's weakness was. His parallel dimension origin surely makes him an unknown player to anyone other than JLA (or perhaps a few JSA) members.

[hail_eris]

Originally posted by GoldenAge
Unfortunately for Selene and Light they would never know what Ultraman's weakness was.
Unless, of course, Selene telepathically plucked that information from Ultraman's mind...

[SyxxPac]

I think I'm going to have to sleep on this one. I was going to say Ultraman Wrecker but both sides are putting up good arguments and I might change my mind, so I'll hold off for a little

[Rokk_Krinn]

One of the huge advantages Ultraman has over Selene and Dr. Light is that he can attack from a much further distance and without ever being seen - we're talking the ultimate "pre-emptive" strike. His sensory powers enable him to pinpoint Selene's location right at the beginning of this fight and a scant second later his heat vision - which we've seen roast people from orbit - lobotimizes her. Hard to defend against that.

Oh, and Selene can't be the actual Hecate - Hecate's shown up in Marvel and it wasn't our favourite mutie. ;)

[icymatt]

And with that confirmed, I'm voting Ultraman/Wrecker. Ultraman fries kittens for fun. He could zap both his opponents and end it.
Vote: Ultraman/Wrecker.

[Rando]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
One of the huge advantages Ultraman has over Selene and Dr. Light is that he can attack from a much further distance and without ever being seen - we're talking the ultimate "pre-emptive" strike. His sensory powers enable him to pinpoint Selene's location right at the beginning of this fight and a scant second later his heat vision - which we've seen roast people from orbit - lobotimizes her. Hard to defend against that.

Oh, and Selene can't be the actual Hecate - Hecate's shown up in Marvel and it wasn't our favourite mutie. ;)

I have my doubts as to the effectiveness of that tactic. I've seen Selene use her mental powers on someone in a plane that was flying around on the other side of a country, and if Ultraman wants to play the X-ray vision and heat vision game then Dr.Light is there to stop it, he can apparently blot out such things, as well as manipulate heat vision.

put me down for Selene and Dr.Light.

I haven't seen anyone really take Selene's mental powers seriously, mental powers strong enough to hold Rachel Summers (the Phoenix) in thrall and battle Professor X. If nothing else Dr.Light ought to be able to keep his team unseen, which suits Selene perfectly.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Dr. Light can only mask them visually. That doesn't hide a heartbeat or even smell - things Ultraman can pick up no problem. Light could possibly stop the heat vision - if he were given ample warning but when the beam strikes out of nowhere, what warning did Light have to protect Selene (mind you, I don't think the heat vision will do much to Light - a piece of hyper-sonic rebar through the skull is a different matter).

[Rando]

Considering that Superboy's similarly enhanced senses couldn't detect Dr.Light in the same room with him, while he was actively trying to locate him, then it would seem Light figured out some way to take care of that. Additionaly unless Ultraman strikes in seconds (and how often is Ultraman ever seen throwing stuff at people from 10 miles away, much less without haveing to show up and run his mouth) then Selene will have plenty of warning, she's a telepath.

[Rando]

I'll also note that all the votes that don't invlove Ultraman just being immune to everyone seem to have him acting in an informed and tactical manner. Ultraman's team isn't really all that bright, and they know almost nothing about their opponents. It isn't like Ultraman has some reason to be going out of his way to drag down Selene and Light super-fast, he knows nothing about them at all, and is pretty confident in his own invicibility. Selene's team however can get all the information they want to from Ultraman and the Wrecker's mind, and Selene has been a soul eating nightstalker for centuries, tactics and subtely are very much her M.O., she strikes from suprise often (and effectively). Light has apparently gotten back into the thinking game as well, the people with the plan will be them.

[SyxxPac]

I thought hard and long and have gone back and forth on who I think will win this and thanks to Rando's last comment he has convinced me that Dr. Light and Selene would win this.

[Maniac_nmt]

Current Total

UltraMan/Wrecker - 6
Selene/Dr. Light - 5

[Rokk_Krinn]

Superboy doesn't have anywhere near the experience with his powers that Ultraman does. Heck, Kon's still not even certain what enhanced senses he has half the time. Meanwhile, yeah, we have seen Ultraman strike someone from a massive distance without running off at the mouth - there is, for example, the time he toasted someone from orbit. Has Light mauled through the Titans? Yep - but we've seen Ultraman maul through the Titans and part of the Mag. 7 JLA (including Superman) during the same fight...edge again to Ultraman. Light might be a "thinking" type but in the end, he's still a bit of a coward and bully and easy to rile up. The first time his partner vaporizes he's going to go into panic mode. Heck, Ultraman even has the perfect tool to use to behead Light - Wrecker's crowbar.

[SumYungGai]

Ultraman is in the big leagues in a way Selene or Dr. Light could only dream of. He and the rest of the Crime Syndicate are essentially the rulers of their Earth. During the course of his lifetime, he has subjugated an entire planet. Selene doesn't even have the strength opf character to keep a small cabal together. The most notable thing Dr. Light could manage at the height of his power was to brutalize a defenseless woman.

Based on these credentials I have to give it to Ultraman (Wrecker wins too).

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by SumYungGai
The most notable thing Dr. Light could manage at the height of his power was to brutalize a defenseless woman.


While I'm not backing Light on this match-up - though I am happy to see Light back to being a serious threat like he was in the early Silver Age - I do want to mention, in his defense, that his attack of Sue was not at the height his power. Back then he was primarily a gadget user and, as such, still had to be a bit more cautious. These days he's got inherent powers that are pretty nasty. Unfortunately, knowing his mind was tampered with hasn't made him cunning so much as raging like a rabid dog (I mean, really, is it smart to blast into a meeting with Luthor, Deathstroke, Black Adam, Psycho and Talia and start ranting? :) ).

[Rando]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Superboy doesn't have anywhere near the experience with his powers that Ultraman does. Heck, Kon's still not even certain what enhanced senses he has half the time. Meanwhile, yeah, we have seen Ultraman strike someone from a massive distance without running off at the mouth - there is, for example, the time he toasted someone from orbit. Has Light mauled through the Titans? Yep - but we've seen Ultraman maul through the Titans and part of the Mag. 7 JLA (including Superman) during the same fight...edge again to Ultraman. Light might be a "thinking" type but in the end, he's still a bit of a coward and bully and easy to rile up. The first time his partner vaporizes he's going to go into panic mode. Heck, Ultraman even has the perfect tool to use to behead Light - Wrecker's crowbar.

Kon may not be as experienced with his powers but he was also within spittng distance of Light at the time, whereas you have Ultraman on the other side of the facility. Speaking of the facility take note of where this battle is takeing place, there is no guarantee that Ultraman's enhanced senses are going to breach this place at all (whereas Ultimate SHIELD has, thus far, shown no anti-telepath shielding, at least none that is automated) Ultraman certainly isn't going to be shooting heat vision or throwing stuff through the Triskalion like it were paper. I'm not sure what the deal with the Ultraman/Light comparison is, Dr.Light is the HW as far as I can see, Selene is the SHW, a SHW that has massive mental powers. When have we seen Ultraman show mental resistance greater than the future wielder of the Phoenix Force? If Ultraman has Superman's magic vulnerbility (which I'm unsure of, no one seems interested in commenting on it) then Selene also has the perfect tool to behead Ultraman: Wrecker's crowbar, or at least to get Ultraman involved in a fight while Selene works her magic (figurativly and literaly) on him.

While we are on the subject of long range it is noteworthy that Ultraman still has to find Selene and Light with his senses (which may not work) before Selene finds him with her mind. After that Ultraman has to bore through the Triskalion to attack them Selene can attack Ultraman immidietly upon location with no inhibitions, with an attack that Ultraman has no defense against at all. So if Ultraman chooses to play the caustious game, and if he can sense things through the Tirskalion, then he is still much more likely to be assaulted first by Selene, and he is every bit as defenseless againt Selene's mental powers as Light is against Ultraman's "hyper-sonic rebar". This still disregards the possiblity that Light can protect them both from detection, and to some degree from attack, he is capable of solid light constructs, and has shown at least some degree of ability to mask himself from enhanced senses, even those functionaly indentical, if lower key, to Ultraman's.

[hail_eris]

Originally posted by SumYungGai
Selene doesn't even have the strength opf character to keep a small cabal together.
She had enough strength to create and rule an artificial Roman civilization in the Amazon. This involved the kidnapping, mind-wiping, and indoctrinating of every last person there. There's a reason why she was able to claim a Hellfire rank that was last occupied by Jean Grey's Dark Phoenix persona.

And there's still the matter of Light and Selene being able to render Ultraman *completely powerless* by hitting him with white dwarf light. Ultraman is also Kryptonian (at least the post-Crisis version is) and he gets the Kryptonian weakness to magic. How exactly is Ultraman supposed to roll over two totally unknown opponents who know, and can very effectively exploit, his only weaknesses?

[Rando]

Originally posted by SumYungGai
Ultraman is in the big leagues in a way Selene or Dr. Light could only dream of. He and the rest of the Crime Syndicate are essentially the rulers of their Earth. During the course of his lifetime, he has subjugated an entire planet. Selene doesn't even have the strength opf character to keep a small cabal together. The most notable thing Dr. Light could manage at the height of his power was to brutalize a defenseless woman.

Based on these credentials I have to give it to Ultraman (Wrecker wins too).

Why is Ultraman the entire Crime Syndicate? Ultraman is primarily the muscle of a team composed of highly effective villians, he isn't even the main managment either. Selene has existed, in both secret and often luxury for centuries, she hasn't taken over the planet, but she also shows no interest in such things, and unlike Ultraman, she is actually fully responsible for her accomplishments, Ultraman seems to be being credited with everyting the CSA has accomplished. If people are voteing for Ultraman because he is an evil Batman plus 3 other SHW's then I can understand why they think he is such a threat.

[The Red Baron]

uh if ultraman wins he has to do it without heat vision sense in they showed that Doc Light can take that from kyrptonians.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Selene's mental powers have never been shown to be very long range, meaning she's going to have to be a whole lot closer than "the other side of the arena".

Ultraman is not Kryptonian these days. He's from Earth and got his powers from an entirely different situation than "rocketed to Earth as an infant".

As for the Triskelion's "defense" is pretty minute at best. It folded like paper when the Brotherhood attacked it.

Oh, and yes, Light took heat vision - at close range from a stunned Superboy. That's a far cry from stealing it in mid-beam as it strikes Selene.

[Rando]

I've seen Selene utilize mental effects as far away as to the stewardess of a commerical airplane at cruising altitude from inside a high tech prison on the ground on the other side of the country. While Selene was in agony from haveing her body being taken apart then put back together again every few minutes.

The Brotherhood infiltrated the Triskalion primarily be useing Electro and Sandman to befoul the security system, they didn't just blow a hole from the roof to the basement. Regardless of all that Selene can terraform, if the facility is too weak on it's own she can alter it to better suit her purposes.

I'm still amazed that you are seriously claiming that it is within Ultraman's personality to blast away at some unknown foes from miles away instead of just walking up and beating on them face to face.

[SumYungGai]

Ultraman is the muscle behind the CSA. He's the one conducting assasinations from orbit. He's the one that even the CSA speak of in hushed tones. He may not be the entire CSA, but they definately live in fear of him.

Also, Ultraman is human, not Kryptonian. He was an astronaut who was captured by aliens who conducted experiments on him. Those experiments left him with Kryptonian-type powers after being exposed to kryptonite. His weaknesses are completely different than Superman's. We can't speak to a magic susceptibility because it hasn't been addressed.

[Rokk_Krinn]

You're thinking of the Sinister Six - the Brotherhood are the mutants. :)

Yes, I am seriously thinking it's within Ultraman's personality to fry a foe from a distance, especially if he's impatient with the whole deal. As SYG noted - UM is temperamental and when he's cranky he'll just fry people from orbit for the minor "sin" of grumbling about the CSA. He's also conducted high-speed and long-distance assassination hits.

[malreux]

This is a really tough one for me, and I think that, as it seems to for most people, it boils down to Ultraman vrs Selene. I am tenetivly voting for team Selene, on the basis that she has show resistance to physical attack and has that touch of superspeed...not as fast as Ultraman, but perhaps enough to blunt his intial blitz attack should he choose too make one. I also think he would be quite vulnerable to her mental wiles, so if he CAN'T take her out before she uses them, he winds up a very big arguement for her victory. I think Light shouldnt have trouble keeping wrecker busy long enough for this to happen

[supermangl1]

I'm voting for Ultraman and Wrecker (bot just because I nominated them, and I couldn't think of someone to put with Ultraman so Wrecker is along for the ride.)

Wrecker is a non factor, unless Ultraman brings him along and he ties up Light or Selene. Which he may be dumb but he can take and beating and dish it out too.

Dr. Light set an ambush for the Teen Titans, he didn't just walk up and steal Superboy's heat vision. But I have a feeling Ultraman won't be using heat vision, but pounding on his head with his fists.

Now if Wrecker manage to make it to where the fight is, he could tie up Dr. Light for a few minutes even without flying. So Selene vs. Ultraman....from what I know of the two, Ultraman should win that fight, she may be resisent to some physical harm, but the amount of punishment Ultraman will be dishing out is quite another thing.

winner = Ultraman and Wrecker (who could contribute to the win!)

[GAMURAI]

ultraman can feel free to beat on doctor light all he wants. now that Doctor light is actually composed of light i don't see him doing a huge amount of damage.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Originally posted by GAMURAI
ultraman can feel free to beat on doctor light all he wants. now that Doctor light is actually composed of light i don't see him doing a huge amount of damage.

Yet he still screamed and bled like a stuck pig when Speedy put an arrow through him. Not so sure he's as "composed of light" as people are saying.

[supermangl1]

Originally posted by Rokk_Krinn
Yet he still screamed and bled like a stuck pig when Speedy put an arrow through him. Not so sure he's as "composed of light" as people are saying.


Agreed! (good to see you again Rokk!)

To quote Predator "If it can bleed, we can kill it."
He looked like he was flesh and bones last issue of Teen Titans. He may be much more powerful than before, but he can still be physically hurt, which just happens to be Ultraman speciality.

[Maniac_nmt]

Current Total

Ultraman/Wrecker - 8
Selene/Dr. Light - 5