View Full Version : Star Wars Ep III Discussion thread
Here it is, with 8 days and counting until the official theatrical release (although it seems like everyone has seen this movie but me.)
Feel free to discuss whatever you like here, but up until the actual release date, PLEASE put spoiler warnings in your posts if you're going to reveal anything (some people are going out of their way to avoid spoilders.)
** Spoiler **
Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader.
Didn't see that one coming!
FoxInStocks
05/11/2005, 13:30
I'm going to a midnight showing of it opening day. Can't wait. :)
Diablo4485
05/11/2005, 15:27
Same here. Thank goodness for reliable friends. They got me my ticket while I was still gone at school around 4 hours away. :)
thedon99
05/11/2005, 15:30
Well, I've been waiting for this since I was four years old, and I'm 24, so yeah, opening night at midnight is a must. Darth Sidious is my favorite character, so I'm pleased he finally gets the screen time he deserves.
My family and I are going to the Midnight Showing as well, and since our Midnight happens HOURS before most of you all in the States, and most of the rest of the world.......well, lets just leave it as Ill be one of the first people ON EARTH to see this. :)
[END TEASE]
My family and I are going to the Midnight Showing as well, and since our Midnight happens HOURS before most of you all in the States, and most of the rest of the world.......well, lets just leave it as Ill be one of the first people ON EARTH to see this. :)Actually, most of the people "in the industry" have already seen this. People at Time and Entertainment Weekly saw screenings far enough in advance to review the movie for magazines that hit the stands a week ago.
I've seen so many poeple online that have seen the movie it looks like only regular shmoes like us are the only ones who haven't seen it yet.
Almost like it was released in theaters a month ago, but only for "important" people, and everyone else has to wait.
I know they're trying to build buzz, and since the movie doesn't #### like the last 2, they want positive word of mouth, but it bugs me that everyone and their brother (see AICN) has seen the movie, while the actual fans have to wait.
With that said, yeah, I'm going to a midnight showing here in the states. :ermm:
Moreso for the experience of going to a theater packed full of fans super late at night, than because I have to see this right away.
I'm going to see it opening night at midnight with TechLee and some others....
I saw AOTC before it was released--I worked at a theater. Rather than just having the film dropped off like every other movie, people from Lucas' company showed up armed to deliver it.
WakandaMan
05/16/2005, 10:52
Darn it DTM, you went and stole my thunder! I was going to brag about exactly the same thing. The worst part is that you even get to see it before me!! :angry:
Ah well, I'll still get to be one of the first to come here and give my .02
hail_eris
05/16/2005, 11:17
I've seen every one of these movies on the day it was released (or, in the case of RotJ, the day before - hooray radio call-in shows!). I was four when the first one came out and I had a sci fi nut uncle who thought I'd get a kick out of it. My dad pulled me out of school for the first day of ESB (waited in a line three blocks long, but I saw it), and I've done the midnight premieres for the last two. So, at this point, I'm kind of obligated to see the last one - if for no other reason than to keep the streak alive (incidentally, I do already have my tickets for Wednesday)...
hail_eris
05/16/2005, 15:29
Here's a uniquely British Star Wars quiz from the good people in the Guardian Arts Section (http://film.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/0,5952,1485136,00.html). I especially like the question about the grammatically correct pluralization of "Jedi knight".
And yes, I did get a 10 out of 10...
SITHSPAWN
05/16/2005, 17:59
I'm going to the midnight showing in Grand Island, NE. I bought my tickets right after getting back from Star Wars Celebration III. Glad I did, I only have enough money for gas to get there and back. I have to drive an hour one way to get to the theatre. I'm dragging my 11, 15, and 23 year old brothers with too.
I get to geek out and wear my Celebration III hat that lights up! :grin: :rolleyes:
Prof. Aragorn
05/18/2005, 09:29
Here's a uniquely British Star Wars quiz from the good people in the Guardian Arts Section (http://film.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/0,5952,1485136,00.html). I especially like the question about the grammatically correct pluralization of "Jedi knight".
And yes, I did get a 10 out of 10...
Eh, 8 out of 10-apparantly, it's impolite to cut off the arm of someone hitting on your *ahem* escort.
doctorfate77
05/19/2005, 03:30
meh. it was okay.
hail_eris
05/19/2005, 03:46
Mr. Lucas - you are forgiven.
Just got back from the midnight showing in Central Time Zone!
[No spoilers here!]
It was absolutely eye-popping visually!
The most satisfying thing is that everything was tied-up quite nicely. I think Revenge of the Sith pretty much wrote itself from all the past and future timeline movies, cartoon series, novels in canon, Lucas interviews since the '70's. I hate to see it end. That was the saddest part. But I think it makes the story complete.
I'll be taking my older kids (10 and 13, boys) to the matinee this afternoon in THX!
Warning: I think the girls (7 and 2) will have to wait for Daddy-editing on DVD.
Definitely worth seeing again.
My 2, er.... 20 cents!
WakandaMan
05/19/2005, 04:56
Okay well here's my skinny; (SPOILERS AHOY)
The Good: It feels so nice that the circle is finally complete. Everything seems to be where it should be by the end of the movie, right down to minor points like 3PO's status. THat was nice. Of course the effects were nice as well. Oh, and R2 really had a chance to shine here (it was a pity that 3PO couldn't have contributed something worthwhile though). And Ewan MacGregor did a fantastic job of Obi-Wan. He seemed very much like the older version in Ep IV in this one. Definitely the star of this Trilogy.
The Bad: I knew what the outcome of every fight was going to be as soon as it started, which took all the suspense out of them. At times it almost seemed like an endless procession of climatic fight scenes. There also seemed to be a few too many corny one-liners, and some political diatribe (although it was relevant to the context of the story at least). Anakin's fall also seemed rather quick, but I suppose it would be hard to draw it out too much in the 2 hours of story time allotted.
Diablo4485
05/19/2005, 05:00
NON-SPOILER
Just got back from the midnight showing, and I can sum up my thoughts in 2 words: holy s***.
This was a very emotionally draining movie for me and the friends who came along. I likened RotS to setting up a domino track: you have fun devising it, creating it, and marveling at it, but in the end the most fun is had setting it off and watching it all fall down. Exact same thing with RotS. You're a touch sickened by the depths you see things sink to but you just can't take your eyes away. Definitely the darkest, most visceral of the Star Wars movies, even though there's sprinklings of comic relief and bits of bad acting throughout. It's gonna take another viewing on my part to judge the movie a bit better, but I most definitely enjoyed it.
Went to see the Midnight showing here in Allentown, PA. The theatre was less than 8 miles from my home...
Revenge of the Sith was AMAZING!!!! SPECTACULAR!!!! STUPENDOUS!!!!
I didn't want it to end. Lucas did a great job in tying up nearly all the loose ends and links to the original trilogy. The only thing that I can recall off the top of my head that wasn't made clear is how Leia remembers seeing her mom's face growing up as she said she did in RotJ. But, I can live with that and chalk it up to Leia's then-latent Force ability.
The theatre where I went showed the movie in two theatres. Both were PACKED! And, yet, there were NO rude animals present who ruined the experience by talking or anything else. It was great to see that many people all getting along and nobody spoiling anyone else's good time.
My best friend, Dave, came all the way from Philly, PA to see it with me here in A-town. Mainly because he said when he saw Episode II's midnight showing back in 2002 in Philly the people in the movie theatre were rude and talkative throughout the entire movie. He was glad he made the trip he said.
Here's a uniquely British Star Wars quiz from the good people in the Guardian Arts Section (http://film.guardian.co.uk/quiz/questions/0,5952,1485136,00.html). I especially like the question about the grammatically correct pluralization of "Jedi knight".
And yes, I did get a 10 out of 10...
I got a 9 out of 10. Apparently, giving a lecture to the guy hitting on my babe isn't right either.
meh. it was okay.
:confused:
Was that sarcasm?!?
I'm going to the midnight showing in Grand Island, NE. I bought my tickets right after getting back from Star Wars Celebration III. Glad I did, I only have enough money for gas to get there and back. I have to drive an hour one way to get to the theatre. I'm dragging my 11, 15, and 23 year old brothers with too.
I get to geek out and wear my Celebration III hat that lights up! :grin: :rolleyes:
Carp In A Hat! We should have exchanged phone numbers, SITHSPAWN. I was there for all four days at SW CIII. Check out my pics in my Signature.
And, I also bought my Midnight ticket less than 3 days after coming back from Indy.
...And Ewan MacGregor did a fantastic job of Obi-Wan. He seemed very much like the older version in Ep IV in this one. Definitely the star of this Trilogy.
I just finished the latest Star Wars Insider magazine right before I went to see RotS. There was a great Ewan MacGregor interview in it.
Ewan stated he has been fascinated with SW since he was a kid. As a matter of fact, his uncle played Wedge Antilles in the original trilogy. He mentioned in the interview he used this as an "in" when he met and auditioned for Lucas.
He also stated he wanted to make sure his 3-movie role would be a tribute to Sir Alec Guiness. For SW: RotS he had the guys at LucasFilms create a looping tape for him that had EVERY ONE of Sir Alec Guiness's lines and apearances in the original 3ogy. He then had this tape running non-stop in his trailer/dressing room and watched it constantly to make sure all his lines and actions would be reflective of Guiness.
Now that's AMAZING!
i liked it. i'm still not much impressed with hayden christianson in every scene, but he was much better in this move than the last. i didn't like frankenstein scene though, but really good all together.
Stepper79
05/19/2005, 10:08
I loved it!! but I have a few Questions still??
SPOILERS
So you are telling me that whole time through ep iv-vi R2 knows everything cause they didn't wipe is memory, and also it took them 20 years to build the 1st Death Star, but yet they got the 2nd built in less than 6. oh man am I a geek!! That young Tarkin was amazing!!
rowzdowermst3k
05/19/2005, 10:52
SPOILER***
A friend of mine made an interesting observation: Darth Playgus (spelling?) had the ability to create life. My friend pointed out- did he create Anakin in Shmi's womb? As powerful as Playgus was, he could have easily memory wiped her and implanted the dark side seed. From the very beginning of Phantom Palpatine is a little too interested in Anakin. Does he know something about Anakin no one else does? Seems like a stretch, but it seems possible.
Thoughts?
My favorite moment in the movie:
SPOILER
When Obi-Wan calms himself and says, "I did fail you Anakin." The fact that Obi-Wan finally realizes he's going to have to kill Anakin--Awesome.
"You were the chosen one!"
FoxInStocks
05/19/2005, 11:07
My favorite moment in the movie:
SPOILER
When Obi-Wan calms himself and says, "I did fail you Anakin." The fact that Obi-Wan finally realizes he's going to have to kill Anakin--Awesome.
"You were the chosen one!"
Thugit is right.
Stepper79
05/19/2005, 11:08
SPOILER
rowzdowermst3k
I think ol' Palpy himself address that when he talks about how Darth Playgus taught everything to his apprentice and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep "wink" 'Wink" "nod" 'Nod" so the emperor could have set it all up based on his interpration of the Prophecy since Yoda aknowledges it could have been mis-interpreted
Ghost_Rider_92
05/19/2005, 11:17
It's Plagueis, BTW ;)
However, it was veddy good.
SPOILERS
I like how the clones, inremorsefully killed their Jedi generals without hesistation. Including the overkill of Aayla Secura. Dayum, they wanted her dead, eh?
rowzdowermst3k
05/19/2005, 11:24
SPOILER
rowzdowermst3k
I think ol' Palpy himself address that when he talks about how Darth Playgus taught everything to his apprentice and then his apprentice killed him in his sleep "wink" 'Wink" "nod" 'Nod" so the emperor could have set it all up based on his interpration of the Prophecy since Yoda aknowledges it could have been mis-interpreted
Palpatine definately killed Playgus and that's a HIGH possibility he created Anakin instead. The way Lucas has handled Palpatine is great. His scheme is so entirely thourough and elaborate, its scary. The fact he's manipulated everyone, and I mean EVERYONE is amazing. Palpatine is Anakin's father?!?!?! Maybe he created that life the old fashioned way! Good god, I just thought of that! Have relations with a slave on Tatooine, erase her memory, and have a idealistic Jedi find her! The Council was against Anakin being trained from the beginning. Did they feel the Dark Side in from the beginning? To many questions, to many questions...
*Yeah, I'm reaching here, but you never know!*
lensnart
05/19/2005, 11:24
Maybe I build these movies up too much before I see them, but I was mildly dissapointed. The first half hour blew, but the rest was pretty good. I am going to see it again tonight and I must admit that I liked both of the first two far more the second time through. But this movie just didn't do it for me.
Spoilers
THe good: Plan 66, Anakin vs Ben, Yoda vs Palpatine, Crazy bird Lizard, the whole last hour.
THe Bad: Asthmatic Grevious, The lame lines of the first 45 minutes, Mace Windu's death, only 4 minutes worth of wookies, It seemed to me like half of the movie was missing
FoxInStocks
05/19/2005, 11:26
THe Bad: Asthmatic Grevious
Watch Clone Wars (if you haven't). That explains the wheezing. At the end of Clone Wars, Mace crushes part of Grevious' chest.
I liked the movie, but had George Lucas set his pride aside and let a real writer handle it I would have loved it.
The plot worked, the action and appearance were incredible, but the "talking head" scenes were painful. Anakin & Padme's scenes were terribly written. I don't think that great actors could have pulled off the lines Lucas forced on them.
Ghost_Rider_92
05/19/2005, 11:50
I liked the movie, but had George Lucas set his pride aside and let a real writer handle it I would have loved it.
The plot worked, the action and appearance were incredible, but the "talking head" scenes were painful. Anakin & Padme's scenes were terribly written. I don't think that great actors could have pulled off the lines Lucas forced on them.
that's the funny part. Lucas DID hire a professional playwright to write all the dialog. :eek:
hail_eris
05/19/2005, 12:15
that's the funny part. Lucas DID hire a professional playwright to write all the dialog. :eek:
Yeah - story I heard was that Tom Stoppard actually polished up some of the lines. The guy does *some* Hollywood script doctoring, but he's much more at home with Shakespeare. Knowing that, you can actually go back and pick out which lines are his (sort of like how, in the first X-Men movie, you can spot the Joss Whedon bits a mile away)...
You mean, like: Padme': "So this is how liberty dies?"
Ghost_Rider_92
05/19/2005, 12:34
Well, i just read the script online and boy, there were tons of parts cut out.
I hope those make it to the DVD (of course, Lucas has to have something to get people to buy every copy he puts out).
Cliff Stockton
05/19/2005, 13:42
Soooo, overall it seems everyone so far enjoyed it?
Hopefully I will too regardless of the acting performances by some and the dialogue.
:devious:I've rarely seen "performances"that were MORE wooden than in this movie.Ewan and Yoda were great-the rest I can do without.Some of the most lifeless romance ever.Eyepopping yes-uplifting-not so much.
Ghost_Rider_92
05/19/2005, 13:51
Overall, I enjoyed it, but I hope the TV shows close the few gaps that left thingstoo open.
the dialog was not that bad this time around, IMO.
:devious: So Jedi are supposedly "sensitive"what with all their mediclorians and all-NOBODY saw this coming???????Plan 66=P-U!!!!!!
doctorfate77
05/19/2005, 14:11
:confused:
Was that sarcasm?!?
nope. It was okay. It was visually, the most amazing SW movie to date (did anyone else see the Millenium Falcon?). However, Lucas forgot to initiate Order 67 ("Don't forget to ACT in this one...").
There are still a few people left in America who do enjoy a little theatre in their movies. I am usually one of them. I kind of expected Lucas to raise the bar on all levels. He didn't. I DO commend Ian McDiarmond and Ewan McGregor for giving an amazing performance anyway.
Also, I'm glad that he answered a lot of questions, but he now ruined it for anyone who has never seen a Star Wars film. why have 1-6 if you have to watch it 4-6 then 1-3? And if you DO watch it 1-6 all the mystery that made the original three great is gone. How shocking was it when we discovered that Vader was Luke's father. Or that Leia was his sister?
This is just the opinion of one man. He made his money. He'll make more when he releases it all in 3-D. He'll make even more after he makes 7-9. I'll probably see them all. I'm gonna see this one again on Friday to make sure I didn't miss anything.
however, my judgement remains at "meh". :ermm:
nope. It was okay. It was visually, the most amazing SW movie to date (did anyone else see the Millenium Falcon?).
Nope, I saw it, too. Right when Anakin and Obi-Wan return from rescuing Palpatine....
Oddly enough, only 1 other person of the 8 I went with noticed it.....it seems like almost everyone overlooked it!
doctorfate77
05/19/2005, 14:44
Nope, I saw it, too. Right when Anakin and Obi-Wan return from rescuing Palpatine....
Oddly enough, only 1 other person of the 8 I went with noticed it.....it seems like almost everyone overlooked it!
Good. So i'm not going crazy? I just had to be sure I wasn't seeing things.
Diablo4485
05/19/2005, 15:17
I'll definitely agree that there was some bad acting (though nothing tops that found in Episode I... :sleep: ), but the thing that got this movie was inappropriately funny moments, i.e. Anakin on his knees before Palpatine, Sidious hanging from the Senate car and making various old man noises, and the like. A friend of mine who has studied literature in greater depth than I have assured me that this is a Shakespearian method, and that those sort of things are thrown in to lighten the mood just a touch and keep a tragedy from getting too dark or depressing, but I'm still tallying it up to bits of bad writing.
Still, it's hard to complain overall with what we got. Face it, if this were the last Star Wars movie ever there are FAR worse ways to go out.
hail_eris
05/19/2005, 15:43
Okay, as I said, really liked it, but a couple issues I had with the movie:
*minor spoilers*
1) After 18 years, Captain Antilles is *still* commanding the same ship? And he's still only a captain? Just how slow is the rate of advancement in the Alderaanian navy?
2) Anakin lands Grievous' ship. Okay, first - that ship is way too big to make planetfall. Second - objects don't accelerate when they enter an atmosphere (hello? friction? that's what heats up a spacecraft on reentry). NASA and ESA use a technique called atmosphere braking to slow their satellites down using exactly that principle. Third - the ship's flight characteristics don't change after a huge chunk of it breaks off. Knock off the back half of your car - while your driving it - and tell me that the steering doesn't feel just a little bit different. Fourth - how does the ship have any flight characteristics to begin with? It's a big tube with no horizontal surfaces that would generate lift, and the engines (which could be used for control in a serious pinch) broke off on reentry.
Someone please help me re-suspend disbelief. Throw some nonsense about repulsorlifts at me so I can watch that scene again...
Stepper79
05/19/2005, 15:49
Well actually it was all R2, he was manipulating the dampening fields to over correct the replusorlifts with a hydrospanner.
I’ll give my abbreviated review:
I give it a rating of “meh.”
** Major Spoilers **
Granted, its hard to live up to 28 years worth of hype (and 4 months worth of the most hype any movie has ever reiceived.) But it still fell a bit short.
The Bad:
Some scenes were so laughably bad that most of the people in the theater laughed out loud at them. (The majority of which were scenes being chewed up and spit out by Palpatine/Sideous. Though the ‘love’ exchange earlier between Anakin and Padme got equal parts groans and laughs.)
Palpatine’s makeup was actually terrible. Cringe-worthy in fact. Gah! For me, he was the Jar-Jar of Epp III, only with better fight scenes.
Anakin’s decent to the dark side took less time than it took to write this sentence.
He’s like “no, you’re evil… well, ok, sure I’d love that timeshare in the Berkshires, sold!”
And within the span of 5 minutes he goes from resisting to agreeing to slaughter children. Even with my “Suspension of disbelief” in full on mode, I still had to go “say what!?”
Less annoying, but still not great:
I would have liked to see the jedi put up more of a fight after order 66. They all fell like a bunch of amateurs. The kid at the jedi temple put up the biggest fight!
Yoda’s bass-ackwards speech is cute in little bits, but when he’s got gobs of dialogue, such as in this movie, its just annoying. Talk badly, I can, often, I will.
Also his ultimate resolution to just give up ran really counter to his character. Like “hey, I tried once and failed.. I’m gonna go retire to the swamp while the galaxy crumbles around me. Good luck with that rebellion! See ya in 20!”
The good:
The best thing about all three prequals was the orchestration of Palpatine’s plan. It was so deftly written, I kept wondering why Lucas couldn’t be that creative or intelligent about the rest of the movies. The scope and execution of the plan was flawless and horribly fascinating. (unlike Palpatine himself who was comical.)
Even though Jar-Jar has about 90 seconds of screen time, he doesn’t open him mouth once. I’ll settle for that at least, if we don’t get to see him mistaken for a jedi and cut down by clone troopers.
The Awesome:
All the R2-D2 stuff in the first 15 minutes of the film. For a small mobile trash can, that little dude kicks ### ! Seeing him fight back was the Episode III version of the Yoda / Dooku fight in Epp II.
Yoda vs Palpatine and Obi Wan vs Anakin were great fight scenes.
The Scenery was absolutely breathtaking. I kept finding myself looking at the depth and creativity of the big shot scenes (mostly Coruscant). A lot of the individual items were very creatively executed as well, such as the opening space battle, the Opera House, and a few other things.
RE: The deathstar & and deathstar 2 –
I think they were both being built at the same time. When I used to read Star Wars novels (many years ago, before it exploded into hundreds of books) there was mention of both Death Stars being constructed at pretty much the same time.
Totally plausible. ;) I though it worked more like Hawkman's anti-grav belt. Oh, that's Thanagarian technology! Wrong universe! :o Nevermind! Carry on...
I caught the Millenium Falcon below on the lower flight deck (or a Corellian cruiser like it). But after E.T. showed up in the Senate in Episode I, I was looking for something like that. I'm taking my boys to the matinee at 4. I'll let you know if I find anything else. Anybody find any newcomers in the Senate this time?
Someone please help me re-suspend disbelief. Throw some nonsense about repulsorlifts at me so I can watch that scene again...I'm all for poking holes in the story, but when it comes to science, I just don't even ask.
This is a world where people fight with swords made of solid light and fly space ships smaller than a Kia that have enough power to break orbit.
Beyond that, people routinely move things around with their mind and just about every diverse species in the entire galacy is a biped with a mouth and 2 eyes.
If your biggest beef is that they could land a damage spaceship, I think you might be missing the big picture.
:)
Stepper79
05/19/2005, 16:14
Azs did you catch the star wars reference in Lost last night?? when Micheal and Jin were working the raft??
hail_eris
05/19/2005, 16:18
Oh, I accept the aliens and the laser swords and the mind tricks and all that. But I expect them to throw me a bone on the basic physics once in a while (incidentally, there have been some pretty good theories put forth by physiologists concerning the whole thing about all alien races being bilaterally symmetrical, upright-walking bipeds - so I let that one go).
And yes, R2 and that padawan kid rack up a higher body count than just about the entire Jedi Council.
Funniest moment when I saw it was during the preview for The Island. There was a certain amount of audience participation going on throughout the previews, but, out of nowhere, this guy just shouts, "F--- you, Michael Bay!" Brought down the house. Perfectly captured the mood of anyone who had to sit through Pearl Harbor...
doctorfate77
05/19/2005, 16:25
one thing I thought was done in good taste...
the tech.
The technology in the first two movies were SO amazing that I began to wonder how the hell we went from that to what we had in episode IV. In this movie they dumbed down the tech a lot... a LOT. Instead of sleek chrome starships that could slip through atoms, we have x-wing and tie fighter prototypes and predecessors. Instead of slick plane glass with light up touch screen controls, we are downgraded to buttons and knobs. It kind of helped the transition from III to IV in my opinion.
I'm gonna sit here and try and think of more things that I liked. I need to. That way, I don't feel like I'm completely trashing the movie. Cause I did enjoy most of it. I really did. well... a lot of it...
doctorfate77
05/19/2005, 16:28
Funniest moment when I saw it was during the preview for The Island. There was a certain amount of audience participation going on throughout the previews, but, out of nowhere, this guy just shouts, "F--- you, Michael Bay!" Brought down the house. Perfectly captured the mood of anyone who had to sit through Pearl Harbor...
and that will be the highest point in that guy's life.
"remember when I shouted "FU, Michael Bay!" and everybody laughed?"
VandalSavage
05/19/2005, 16:53
Nope, I saw it, too. Right when Anakin and Obi-Wan return from rescuing Palpatine....
Oddly enough, only 1 other person of the 8 I went with noticed it.....it seems like almost everyone overlooked it!
I noticed it too and told the people I was with about it....
I just like to look for those types of things...
And by the way....I think this Movie Rocked!!!
Mr. Savage
VandalSavage
05/19/2005, 16:58
[QUOTE=azs]I’ll give my abbreviated review:
I give it a rating of “meh.”
** Major Spoilers **
Granted, its hard to live up to 28 years worth of hype (and 4 months worth of the most hype any movie has ever reiceived.) But it still fell a bit short.
The Bad:
Some scenes were so laughably bad that most of the people in the theater laughed out loud at them. (The majority of which were scenes being chewed up and spit out by Palpatine/Sideous. Though the ‘love’ exchange earlier between Anakin and Padme got equal parts groans and laughs.)
Palpatine’s makeup was actually terrible. Cringe-worthy in fact. Gah! For me, he was the Jar-Jar of Epp III, only with better fight scenes.
Anakin’s decent to the dark side took less time than it took to write this sentence.
He’s like “no, you’re evil… well, ok, sure I’d love that timeshare in the Berkshires, sold!”
And within the span of 5 minutes he goes from resisting to agreeing to slaughter children. Even with my “Suspension of disbelief” in full on mode, I still had to go “say what!?”
Less annoying, but still not great:
I would have liked to see the jedi put up more of a fight after order 66. They all fell like a bunch of amateurs. The kid at the jedi temple put up the biggest fight!
Yoda’s bass-ackwards speech is cute in little bits, but when he’s got gobs of dialogue, such as in this movie, its just annoying. Talk badly, I can, often, I will.
Also his ultimate resolution to just give up ran really counter to his character. Like “hey, I tried once and failed.. I’m gonna go retire to the swamp while the galaxy crumbles around me. Good luck with that rebellion! See ya in 20!”
QUOTE]
Wow....Could not disagree more....But I guess everyone has opinions....Some people can just never be pleased....
Mr. Savage
thedon99
05/19/2005, 17:28
All right, I'll give you that the make-up was bad. But, actually I think it was done CGI. Regardless, Ian McDiermand was the best actor in the movie, and he showed everyone who the baddest mother ####er was. Darth Sidious reigns supreme.
stormfang1502
05/19/2005, 18:57
nope. It was okay. It was visually, the most amazing SW movie to date (did anyone else see the Millenium Falcon?)
Technically, we don't know it was the Millenium Falcon, but it was a YT-1300 Stock Light Freighter.
Its kinda like seeing an Aston Martin DB5 and automatically assuming it was the car James Bond used in "Goldfinger". Its the same make and model, but it may not be the exact one.
I'm all for poking holes in the story, but when it comes to science, I just don't even ask.
Thats why its called "space opera", in this form of science fiction the main rule is not to put the science ahead of the fiction.
Don't let physics bog down your story, assume that advanced technology makes the impossible possible.
Diablo4485
05/19/2005, 19:38
Just out of curiosity, what previews did everyone see before the show? We had Chronicles of Narnia, Cinderella Man, Batman Begins, and Fantastic Four. Everyone went nuts for Narnia and Batman, but the Fantastic Four trailer came last, after an ad for the theater, so it was greeted with a bunch of groans and boos. So, being the comic book person I am, I felt obligated to start up applause after it ended. Thankfully, it stuck. So I did my good deed for the day and stood up for Marvel. They just better not disappoint me.
Technically, we don't know it was the Millenium Falcon, but it was a YT-1300 Stock Light Freighter.
Its kinda like seeing an Aston Martin DB5 and automatically assuming it was the car James Bond used in "Goldfinger". Its the same make and model, but it may not be the exact one.
Thats why its called "space opera", in this form of science fiction the main rule is not to put the science ahead of the fiction.
Don't let physics bog down your story, assume that advanced technology makes the impossible possible.
*notices that he knows the name of ship that the falcon is.*
I was going to argue with you, but theirs no convincing these types. Why bother eh?
\/\/00|<!35!
W00ki35!
Wookies!
and on the "f.u. bay" guy... yeah. thats what I was thinking....
everytime these friends will laugh, this dude will be "It wasnt that funny.... REMEMBER THE TIME when I said f. u. michael bay! that! was funny."
Anakin’s decent to the dark side took less time than it took to write this sentence.
He’s like “no, you’re evil… well, ok, sure I’d love that timeshare in the Berkshires, sold!”
And within the span of 5 minutes he goes from resisting to agreeing to slaughter children. Even with my “Suspension of disbelief” in full on mode, I still had to go “say what!?”
I think that this goes to the heart of my problem with both Episodes 2 & 3.
Hayden Christensen portrays Anakin as whiney and petulant rather than angry and outraged. If he had been played as a force of rage his switch would be more believable. Most of his scenes would have been more believable.
Okay, as I said, really liked it, but a couple issues I had with the movie:
*minor spoilers*
1) After 18 years, Captain Antilles is *still* commanding the same ship? And he's still only a captain? Just how slow is the rate of advancement in the Alderaanian navy?
Two of many possibilities:
a) He did advance, but got reprimanded for something in the future and then got demoted.
b) He doesn't want to advance.
-- I have been a Trooper for 13+ years and I have NO ambition to advance. Advancement means being off the road and I choose to help and be of service to people. Unlike the rank-hungry who ONLY got on the job for less than humanitarian reasons.
2) Anakin lands Grievous' ship. Okay, first - that ship is way too big to make planetfall. Second - objects don't accelerate when they enter an atmosphere (hello? friction? that's what heats up a spacecraft on reentry). NASA and ESA use a technique called atmosphere braking to slow their satellites down using exactly that principle. Third - the ship's flight characteristics don't change after a huge chunk of it breaks off. Knock off the back half of your car - while your driving it - and tell me that the steering doesn't feel just a little bit different. Fourth - how does the ship have any flight characteristics to begin with? It's a big tube with no horizontal surfaces that would generate lift, and the engines (which could be used for control in a serious pinch) broke off on reentry.
Someone please help me re-suspend disbelief. Throw some nonsense about repulsorlifts at me so I can watch that scene again...
When the ship broke up in forced re-entry it became small enough to make planetfall that it wouldn't crumble any more under its weight and size.
It actually IS possible to accelerate and go beyond the max fall rate of gravity. Skydivers do it all the time. Falling in the flat "Box-Man" body formation allows a maximum fall rate of approximately 120 mph. But, if you "Sit Fly" or go "Head Down" then you can increase your speed to well over 210+ mph.
Considering the ship was no longer intact, and was NEVER designed for atmospheric flight anyway, the falling ship could easily have increased speed due to a headdown approach and its lack of design to permit gliding and in-atmosphere steering capabilities.
My guess, being that Anakin is the best pilot as quoted by Obi-Wan in ANH:
Anakin used the forward shields to not only brake during the violent and out of control re-entry, but also used the shields to steer. Far fetched? Sure. Plausible? You bet.
That's all I got for ya. Hope that suspends your disbelief, hail_eris.
[QUOTE=stormfang1502]Technically, we don't know it was the Millenium Falcon, but it was a YT-1300 Stock Light Freighter.
Its kinda like seeing an Aston Martin DB5 and automatically assuming it was the car James Bond used in "Goldfinger". Its the same make and model, but it may not be the exact one.[QUOTE]
Very true. IIRC, Episode I or II on the planet Naboo had 2-3 YT-1300s in the hangar bay area. They were placed there intentionally to show that the Millenium Falcon is a common freighter-class vessel.
In the last issue of Star Wars Insider there was an article that mentioned this and it went into further detail to describe they repainted one of the ships (CGI) and added it to Episode III. The article didn't say if it was repainted to be the actual Falcon, but my best guess is that it was meant to be the real deal.
Of course, even if it is the Falcon it is not being piloted by Han or Lando. Both are too young yet to be star pilots.
As a matter of fact, Han starts out his career as an Imperial TIE pilot, but gets sent to the Kessel Spice Mines for striking an officer or disobeying orders (I forget which). It's at Kessel that he meets and rescues and escapes with Chewie and they become life friends.
MrSpeed74
05/19/2005, 22:07
I absolutely loved the movie , I saw it twice , once at 7:30 and then again at the midnight show....and I'm sure I loved it !! I thought compared to Episode II , they really cut down on the cheesy one liners...which was great , and my favorite part by far.................................
SPOILER
Yoda force slams the Emperor's Royal Guards !!!!!
MrSpeed74
It actually IS possible to accelerate and go beyond the max fall rate of gravity. Skydivers do it all the time.I'm not sure if you're saying accelleration or velocity, so I'll chime in with geek speak and point out that you can't actually accellerate faster than the pull of gravity. (On Earth) the force of Gravity is 32 feet / second square, so you will continue to accellerate until you reach terminal velocity, which is determined by your drag.
Then, like you said, you can affect drag by chaging your aerodynamics.
All of that is moot though, when you're talking about science fiction where ships have artificial gravity, and "force shields" both of which can pretty much do anything the writer wants, because there's not real world circumstances to judge the effects against.
doctorfate77
05/19/2005, 23:33
Technically, we don't know it was the Millenium Falcon, but it was a YT-1300 Stock Light Freighter.
wow.
just... wow.
Here's a question for the guy who knows about all things Star Wars productions...
A spoiler follows....
Amy Allen, the very hot actress who plays Aayla Secura, made a statement about 1 month ago that her character was not killed off in RoTS and that she MAY be in the upcomming SW television series.
Obviously...Aayla got gunned down very bad in the movie.
Is there anything "official" on this? Was Amy just blowing smoke? Or did Lucas add a new CGI killing after her comment?
I've also heard that there were other Jedi killed during the "Godfather style" scene but Lucas cut them (either for DVD release or cause he wants to save them for the tv series). Does anybody have more info on this?
All right, I'll give you that the make-up was bad. But, actually I think it was done CGI. Regardless, Ian McDiermand was the best actor in the movie, and he showed everyone who the baddest mother ####er was. Darth Sidious reigns supreme.
You know something, I really expected the Emperor to lay the smack down on Yoda in this film, but it didnt really happen. Oh, dont get me wrong, the guy PROVED he can handle himself in combat, to say the least, but to me he looked to be the rough overall equal to the likes of both Yoda and Mace Windu.
We finally proved Palpatine CAN use a lightsaber (something that was 6 TOCs in the waiting), but as far as him putting the beat down on Mace and/or Yoda, well, I think Id call them all rough equals from what I saw (maybe a bit more power on Palpatine, but not by that much really)
stormfang1502
05/20/2005, 02:11
Here's a question for the guy who knows about all things Star Wars productions...
A spoiler follows....
Amy Allen, the very hot actress who plays Aayla Secura, made a statement about 1 month ago that her character was not killed off in RoTS and that she MAY be in the upcomming SW television series.
Obviously...Aayla got gunned down very bad in the movie.
Is there anything "official" on this? Was Amy just blowing smoke? Or did Lucas add a new CGI killing after her comment?
I've also heard that there were other Jedi killed during the "Godfather style" scene but Lucas cut them (either for DVD release or cause he wants to save them for the tv series). Does anybody have more info on this?
Well, Jedi do have the ability to absorb incoming energy blasts (ala Vader in ESB) and according to the novels they can place themselves and a death like coma, so it is possible she played dead until she could make her escape.
If only Kit Fisto had the same opportunity, I really liked him :(
dal_johnson
05/20/2005, 03:27
To the whole lack of proression for Captain Antilles...
Isn't Captain Antilles the father of Wedge Antilles?
Also a question?
Did they show how Shaak Ti (Female Jedi with the large red and white head dress/growth) dies. They showed every other named Jedi, but I don't recall seeing her. Or was she dead at the end of Clone Wars?
Diablo4485
05/20/2005, 03:34
To the whole lack of proression for Captain Antilles...
Isn't Captain Antilles the father of Wedge Antilles?
Also a question?
Did they show how Shaak Ti (Female Jedi with the large red and white head dress/growth) dies. They showed every other named Jedi, but I don't recall seeing her. Or was she dead at the end of Clone Wars?
At the end of Clone Wars she was tied from the ceiling by some sort of energy cables by General Grievous. She was still conscious and able to speak, so I don't think it killed her. My hope is that she was one of the Jedi that was out on the fringe and managed to elude the mass genocide. I mean, some Jedi have to survive if there's gonna be a TV show, right?
dal_johnson
05/20/2005, 03:48
I hope that she is one for the TV show.
Of the non-main character Jedi's her and Kit Fitso were my 2 favorites. So I hope that she is one.
I also heard that there was a scene of Anikan killing her at the temple that was cut out of the final edit. Maybe it was cut out so that she could be used for the TV series.
tchipley
05/20/2005, 03:53
***Spoiler***
Mace totally laid the smack down on Sidious. Woot! Owned him!
Um, why again did Yoda run. Really why did he take that first hit from the Emporer. Man that had to have taken most of the fight out of him. ####!!
What's up with that "Force Ghost" Thing? How exactly does Obi-Wan and Yoda get it but not Qui-Gon? And how's that work for Vader?
I'll admit it. I was there for the fight scenes and all around ###-whupping but I honestly couldn't hear all the dialogue. What did padme say at then end?
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 04:02
We finally proved Palpatine CAN use a lightsaber (something that was 6 TOCs in the waiting), but as far as him putting the beat down on Mace and/or Yoda, well, I think Id call them all rough equals from what I saw (maybe a bit more power on Palpatine, but not by that much really)
Wasn't Mace supposed to be the best fighter on the Jedi council? Because it looked to me like he was handling Palpatine pretty well until Anakin came in from off the bench.
And in the "life imitating art" department - when Palpatine was talking about how the assassination attempt left him scarred, did anyone else *immediately* think of Viktor Yushchenko in Ukraine? They even look the same (really, go ahead and run his name through a Google image search - slap a cloak on Yushchenko and he'll be tossing Force lightning in no time).
Oh, and thanks ro_gan. I had come up with a similar rationale for the plateau-ing of Capt. Antilles's career (he seemed pretty chummy with Bail Organa - he probably kept his rank for the same reason that Wedge did). And your landing scenario is totally within the realm of believability for me. I was keeping the "best pilot" comment in mind - I just couldn't figure out what difference that would make when one is at the helm of a falling brick that is totally lacking in control surfaces. But shield braking? I'll buy that in a second...
I actually tought the Palpatine sensed anakin coming back and lost on purpose so he could look like a weak old man in need and the jedi counsil as the 'evil ones' that tried to overthrow democratie
can somebody also explain me why he gets all deformed when shooting lightning at Windu ? it doesn't seem to be a problem when he fights Yoda.
I actually tought the Palpatine sensed anakin coming back and lost on purpose so he could look like a weak old man in need and the jedi counsil as the 'evil ones' that tried to overthrow democratie
can somebody also explain me why he gets all deformed when shooting lightning at Windu ? it doesn't seem to be a problem when he fights Yoda.
I think you're right....he knew that Anakin was going to show up, so he wanted to look like "the underdog" so that Anakin would be more inclined to side with him.
Then again, Mace did manage to deform him by reflecting the lightning back into him--it's hard to say what would have happened had Anakin not shown up...I think the Emperor would have still finished Mace off, though.
I guess the Mace vs Palpatine brawl will be one of those things debated by SW fans for years to come...
Personally, I think Mace schooled him and there was nothing Palpatine could have done about it.
I don't buy the Palpatine wants to convice Anakin the Jedi are bad and thus plays weak. How could Mace or the Jedi be "bad" in Anakin's eyes? Mace lead a 200 Jedi task force (that got decimated btw) to rescue Anakin's punk ### in AoTC.
Mace/Palp's fight mirrors the Anakin/Dooku fight from the start of the movie. Both light side Jedi are in positions to kill (execution style) the dark side Jedi. Anakin does it. Mace is about to do it.
I think Palp got lucky that Anakin showed up and "changed teams" in order to save Padme. I don't think it was part of his strategy. Up to that point...Palp was lying on a window edge, skin wrinkled, with his Sith Lightning being absorbed by Mace's saber.
Perhaps he played it up the possum game when Anakin was on the fence...but he was beaten like a stray dog before all that by Mace.
The Qwardian
05/20/2005, 08:34
I saw the movie last night. Overall, I enjoyed it. It wasnt spectacular, but it was entertaining. Once again, some jerk had to ruin it by answering his cell phone during the movie.
Ghost_Rider_92
05/20/2005, 08:36
could have been worse...
http://www.theforce.net/latestnews/story/EP3_Screening_Problem_Turns_Ugly_in_Kentucky_92677.asp
now that would have been upsetting!
Stepper79
05/20/2005, 08:38
[QUOTE=tchipley
What's up with that "Force Ghost" Thing? How exactly does Obi-Wan and Yoda get it but not Qui-Gon? And how's that work for Vader?
QUOTE]
This is Obi-wan's home work as Yoda told him at the end the Qui-Gon has learned to return through the force and become imortal. Hence "if you strike me down I shall be come more powerful than you can imagine" in ANH
Sgt.Hatch
05/20/2005, 09:06
Whats up Arthur,
*** Spoiler (Do we need to still say this at this point?)
I have to disagree with you and the other that think Palpatine was schooled by Mace. I thought all along that it was all part of Palpatine's plan. I know Mace is a bad as#, but "search your feelings" and you will come to my side. 1) Palpatine even tells Anakin that the Jedi will over through him, but Anakin doesn't believe it so he must see it to believe it. 2) So Palpatine sets this up, after Anakin discovers Palpatine is the Sith Lord, Palpatine allows Anakin to go tell the Jedi. So obvisly Palpatine knew the Jedi would come after him and he did not fear this. 3) I dont think the sith lightning was hurting Palpatine at all, as soon as Anakin did his thing Palpatine snaps up with a smile (as if if wasn't hurt at all, no sighing, no moaning, no limping, he seamed to be fine) and says something about absolute power and then fries Mace. I think it was all part of his plan to turn Anakin. Think about it. Palpatine let anakin tell the Jedi. Palpatine knew the Jedi would come for him, and he had no guards or backup. He knew he could take them and did not fear his distruction.
I Know Mace is close to or is Yoda's equal, but hey, Palpatine defeated Yoda too. So you really don't think he could of defeated Mace also. Palpatine is the master planner and this was all part of it.
I send you a pm.
Sgt.Hatch
05/20/2005, 09:16
A few more questions for discussion:
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. So if Anakin wanted to say her life all he had to do is remain a Jedi, do the right thing, and keep Padme's love. Bummer :(
####, that Palpatine is sneeky :angry:
Let me know what you think
The Qwardian
05/20/2005, 09:19
This is Obi-wan's home work as Yoda told him at the end the Qui-Gon has learned to return through the force and become imortal. Hence "if you strike me down I shall be come more powerful than you can imagine" in ANH
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKAY
That makes alot more sense.
After Yoda told Obi and the movie ended I was like "What the hell is that about? It's not going to be answered in the nest movie!"
Thanx for clearing that up. :)
doctorfate77
05/20/2005, 10:37
question for the geeks.
Obi Wan gives Luke his dad's Lightsaber. Why is it green, if it was always blue?
question for the geeks.
Obi Wan gives Luke his dad's Lightsaber. Why is it green, if it was always blue?
Luke didn't have a green one until Return of the Jedi, I think.
He lost the blue one when daddy cut his hand off.
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 10:47
Luke didn't have a green one until Return of the Jedi, I think.
He lost the blue one when daddy cut his hand off.
What Thugit said. Luke first uses Anakin's lightsaber in Empire. At the end of Empire he loses the lightsaber when his hand is cut off.
Then, in Jedi we see him with the green lightsaber, and later in the film Vader comments on Luke building the new weapon.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 11:08
Palpatine is the pimpiest pimp in the whole Star Wars Galaxy [yes boys and girls, even more pimpier than Lando Calrisian!!!!] He is a true Politician, he played the Jedi like a fiddle and Anakin fell into his lap like a virgin on prom nite!!!!
Mace was putting the beat down on old Palpy and it messed him up to the point where he's stuck looking like dracula on a bad day but it was a small price for him to pay to get Lord Vader.
Mace didn't go out like a chump, he got blindsided by Anakin, oh well it happens!
I wish they showed [at least the shadows of] Anakin killing the younglings, hey, I'm not a bad person, it happened so I wanna see it.
Did you see how quickly "Vader" wanted to take out Palpatine and rule the universe? Those Dark Sith are some viscious s.o.b's!
I loved Vader's Frankenstein walk when he broke free and Palpy was right, he did kill her.
Loved the fact that Anakin got to chop off both of Dooko's hands and the line about killing an unarmed man was priceless.... I guess actually he was a "unhand man" :P
Lucas pulled it all together with #3 but I am one of the ones who had no problem with 1 & 2.
Only thing, life on that planet must me worse than living in Texas, cause Obi Wan aged a whole lot in 20 years.... maybe it was because he was training to talk to Qui-go-jin.....maybe that explains it.......
thedon99
05/20/2005, 12:13
Like others have said, Palpatine used Mace Windu to execute the final part of his plan. The lightning was not hurting him, as he smiles after he screams about power, and if he is beaten he can't jump up and deliver the lightning with such power. All a ploy to capitalize on Anakin's mistrust of Mace Windu and the Jedi Council. He dismantles three Jedi Masters in seconds, it's literally 4 on 1, Mace is not better than those three Jedi Masters combined. Palpatine was playing him.
Mace looks like the aggressor, Anakin thinks the Jedi are trying to take over. No guards, Palpatine was literally waiting for the Jedi to come arrest him. He had forseen Anakin "saving" him. Mace is great, but not better than Yoda, who ran from the most powerful Sith of all time. Sidious would own Windu, if he wasn't playing him like a piece of chess, along with everbody else in the entire movie.
Darth Sabre
05/20/2005, 12:15
Well I liked it! But I have to see it again, because it left me emotionally conflicted.
I was awestruck by some of the things I saw, and yet shocked at the same time.
The last time we see Anakin, before he dons the now infamous Vader garb, was quite disturbing.
My favorite scene was from the time that Mace and his crew went to arrest Palpatine, till the end of their fight.
Also, is it me, or does Lucas have something against body limbs? There isn't one movie, of the 6, where somene doesn't have an arm cut off. What's that about? :p
As I had suggested waaaayyyy back, I think Leia's memory of her mother can be attributed to the Force.
Most of the threads were tied up. But it seems like on major one, wasn't and at this time, it escapes me. :ermm:
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 12:15
A watch a few bits of New Hope after seeing ROTS, anf the scene where Obi-Wan gives Luke the lightsaber is now kinda creepy:
Obi-Wan: "This is your father's lightsaber. Most recently, it was used to slaughter a bunch of traitorous sepratists, and before that, a bunch of jedi kids. Hope you like it."
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 12:19
I still think that the lightining did affect palpy.... I mean look at him now, he's all ... wrinkly..... cause the "force lightning" does affect him, heck Yoda knock him across the room with it. I damit he was waiting for Anakin to make his move, but I do think it [the force lightning] caused him some pain....
thedon99
05/20/2005, 13:23
I still think that the lightining did affect palpy.... I mean look at him now, he's all ... wrinkly..... cause the "force lightning" does affect him, heck Yoda knock him across the room with it. I damit he was waiting for Anakin to make his move, but I do think it [the force lightning] caused him some pain....
Okay, I may concede the point that it caused him some pain. That really isn't what caused his transformation, it's his full connection to the dark side. At that point, against Windu, he fully transformed into what he was all along, Darth Sidious.
Not to take anything away from Mace Windu, he's a bad mother ####er. Next, to Yoda, he's the best. However, he can't take the most powerful Sith Master of all time, who beats Yoda, destroys three of the most powerful Jedi Masters on the Council in seconds, and always plans to such an extent that the entire scene makes sense with him using Anakin's mistrust of the Council and Mace Windu in particular, to turn Anakin by making him think the Jedi are trying to take over the Republic, not him. If you recall, Mace was going to kill Darth Sidious, and Anakin remarks that's not the Jedi way. Palpatine used Mace's aggresion against him, which is funny, considering that is what the Sith are supposed to do. Just goes to show the true diabolical cunning of Lord Sidious. At no time was he even in danger against Mace, as he had foreseen Anakin "saving" him. After Mace tells him to stay until they get back, Sidious talks to him in his head, more proof that he was trying to get Anakin to come "save" him. Plus, the fact, Lucas has said that it was all part of Darth Sidious' plans.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 13:24
I loved when Agen Kolar gets impaled, gave me goose bumps.
Whoever compared the execution of the Jedi to the Godfather had it dead on. I half-expected whatever Jedi it was flying the little ship to pull up to a toll booth and then have the toll attendant dive down inside the booth after taking his money.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 13:33
Whoever compared the execution of the Jedi to the Godfather had it dead on. I half-expected whatever Jedi it was flying the little ship to pull up to a toll booth and then have the toll attendant dive down inside the booth after taking his money.
If you are talking about when Palpy was talking to th senate and the Jedi were getting wacked one by one, I totally was like "Godfather 2"
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 13:38
Okay, I may concede the point that it caused him some pain. That really isn't what caused his transformation, it's his full connection to the dark side. At that point, against Windu, he fully transformed into what he was all along, Darth Sidious.
Not to take anything away from Mace Windu, he's a bad mother ####er. Next, to Yoda, he's the best. However, he can't take the most powerful Sith Master of all time, who beats Yoda, destroys three of the most powerful Jedi Masters on the Council in seconds, and always plans to such an extent that the entire scene makes sense with him using Anakin's mistrust of the Council and Mace Windu in particular, to turn Anakin by making him think the Jedi are trying to take over the Republic, not him. If you recall, Mace was going to kill Darth Sidious, and Anakin remarks that's not the Jedi way. Palpatine used Mace's aggresion against him, which is funny, considering that is what the Sith are supposed to do. Just goes to show the true diabolical cunning of Lord Sidious. At no time was he even in danger against Mace, as he had foreseen Anakin "saving" him. After Mace tells him to stay until they get back, Sidious talks to him in his head, more proof that he was trying to get Anakin to come "save" him. Plus, the fact, Lucas has said that it was all part of Darth Sidious' plans.
Don I see what you mean, kinda like in Star Trek 2 when Spock "sacraficed himself" he had a back up plan so it wasn't as "sacraficially" as were were led to believe.
Mace was looking pretty angry and emotional....
I saw Yoda and palpy as a draw, yoda beat feat cause he knew Palpy would bring in backup, but you gotta admit, it took very large staones to walk into his lair to take him on like that. Yoda is still da man!
The Jedi Council as a whole...weak...very weak... they were not politicians and should not have tried to get all politcally... they forgot the old saying...
Politics is war without bloodshed,
War is politics with bloodshed"
Let's not give the Emperor too much credit, here.
He was afraid of the rest of the Jedi coming to kill Anakin and himself--hence the sneak attacks and Order 66.
Yoda was remarkably attached to and affected by what had gone on--the death of all the Jedi, the fact that the traitor was right under there noses, etc....he wasn't "himself." I'm not saying he would have beaten Palpatine, either, but it's always nice to have some sort of edge going into a fight--just like Palpatine had against Yoda.
IIRC, the book elaborates that the Emperor DID sort of play himself as a weakling just to ensure that Anakin would help him--that doesn't mean that Mace Windu couldn't have beaten him, though.
okay was is everybody saying yoda lost the fight against Palpatine ?
so he fell and got hurt. but he wasn't out of the fight. I just tought that he was to far down to get back up before reinforcements arrive.
In my opinion he and palpatine are equal. after all when he enters the room and after smashing palpatine aginst the wall, he tries to get away. I believe because he knows yoda is his equal and that he can lose 50% of the time. these are odds he isn't willing to take.
And I think this little fact puts yoda above palpatine. the dark force works inward which means he tought only about himself and how to save his butt, where yoda didn't care about himself as long as he served the republic.
BTW did you notice that Anakin did fullfill the prophecy and brought balance. at the end there were two force users left both of the light and the dark side.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 13:52
Yoda is great. It was almost a draw, but the fact remains, Yoda fell, Sidious didn't. Yoda then runs. He had already lost his lightsaber. That's a big disadvantage against force lightning, as proven against Mace. To be honest, I like Yoda more now, for the way I see it, Yoda knew he was going to lose but was still willing to go in and face him. He tells Obi-Wan he isn't nearly powerful enough to face Darth Sidious when Obi-Wan foolishly wants a piece of him instead of Anakin. Obi-Wan is arguably as good as Yoda by the end of ROTS, so that says something to me. Either that, or Yoda was stupid enough to understimate Darth Sidious, and that doesn't seem like something yoda would do.
Once it is revealed that the Chancellor is a Sith Lord, I'm sure Yoda knew how powerful he was, he had stayed hidden from the Council for a long time. To cloud the light side that much to where they can't feel him is pretty incredible especially when it's the whole Council you're fooling. Yoda knew. That back up business really doesn't apply as he was waiting on Yoda. He could've had 1000 troops around him if he was afraid of Yoda. He even tells him he's been waiting for this moment for a long time. I also think Yoda knew that first burst of force lightning was coming, as Sidious had his hands in the air a good 5 seconds before he actually released the bolts. As they shoot towards Yoda, they give a good look of his face, and he looked scared.
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 13:55
BTW did you notice that Anakin did fullfill the prophecy and brought balance. at the end there were two force users left both of the light and the dark side.
Well, the prophecy also says that he'll destroy the Sith - which he does at the end of Return of the Jedi. (So it takes him 20 years to do it - we all procrastinate a bit.)
And for the people who are giving the Emp all the credit for setting up Anakin during the fight with Mace, I ask this: how on earth did he know that Anakin would turn for the love of his wife, but not foresee that he'd flip right back for the love of his son? I always got a certain "Reichstag fire" vibe from the prequel's treatment of Palpatine - he's much more of an exceedingly skilled opportunist than he is any kind of "planning ten moves ahead" genius.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 13:57
Yoda did lose. He fell, got hurt. Then runs. He even tells Bail Organa he has failed, and must go into exile. If he's so even, then why go into exile? He and Obi-Wan are left. Vader and Sidious. Fight him again. Yoda could easily get into wherever he wanted if he wanted to fight Sidious. Yes, Sidious has the whole Empire. But, if Yoda wanted to duel with himagain, then he could make it happen. The sad fact is that Yoda is past his prime.
Yoda did lose. He fell, got hurt. Then runs. He even tells Bail Organa he has failed, and must go into exile. If he's so even, then why go into exile?
The same reason that Palpatine hid who he was for so long....they picked their spot.
They sent a crybaby farmboy to take down the Emperor--mission accomplished.
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 14:05
I always got a certain "Reichstag fire" vibe from the prequel's treatment of Palpatine - he's much more of an exceedingly skilled opportunist than he is any kind of "planning ten moves ahead" genius.
I think he's a little of both. I think he planned out quite a bit of the scheme, but I'm sure he took advantage of opportunity as it arose. For example, I doubt he planned on Anakin ever coming into the picture, but once he was there, Palpatine was quick to change his plan to get Anakin.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 14:06
Well, the prophecy also says that he'll destroy the Sith - which he does at the end of Return of the Jedi. (So it takes him 20 years to do it - we all procrastinate a bit.)
And for the people who are giving the Emp all the credit for setting up Anakin during the fight with Mace, I ask this: how on earth did he know that Anakin would turn for the love of his wife, but not foresee that he'd flip right back for the love of his son? I always got a certain "Reichstag fire" vibe from the prequel's treatment of Palpatine - he's much more of an exceedingly skilled opportunist than he is any kind of "planning ten moves ahead" genius.
That is so wrong. He plans everything- and I mean everything. Mace Windu is the one Anakin mistrusts most. Mace tells him that they will not grant him the rank of master. Anakin reacts with anger. Sorry, Mace Windu is good, but it is arrogant to say he's better than Sasee Tiin, Kit Fisto, and Agen Kolar combined, who are all Council members, and get slaughtered in seconds. If you think someone that single handedly plans the downfall of 10,000 Jedi and erasing the entire Jedi Order, was just an opportunist, then I don't know what to say. He's been planning this for a long time. He overestimated Vader's link to the dark side. keep in mind, how much harder it is to come back to the light side. That's the whole point. It's easy to turn to the dark side, it's considered nearly impossible to turn back. Two totally different things. Of course he thought Vader wouldn't turn back.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 14:11
The same reason that Palpatine hid who he was for so long....they picked their spot.
They sent a crybaby farmboy to take down the Emperor--mission accomplished.
Don't cry Thugit. Yoda can't get the job done, Luke can't get the job done, Daddy saves him by snatching up Darth Sidious from behind, and still gets killed by the force lightning. It's a little different when it's one Sith, and 10,000 Jedi. After Yoda loses, he didn't want anymore which is why he ran.
Don't cry Thugit. Yoda can't get the job done, Luke can't get the job done, Daddy saves him by snatching up Darth Sidious from behind, and still gets killed by the force lightning. It's a little different when it's one Sith, and 10,000 Jedi. After Yoda loses, he didn't want anymore which is why he ran.
I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
I couldn't hear you over the Emperor exploding as he fell to his death after being outwitted by crybaby Luke.....
:p :p :p
thedon99
05/20/2005, 14:15
I said, you're the one crying. As usual, everyone is being civil to one another until you have to adopt your usual [removed-PL] tone.
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 14:16
Hey! Luke was past his crybaby stage by then. That's bad###, Jedi Luke! You've got to love when he freaks out and just beats Vader down with the lightsaber.
However, he became crybaby Luke again when Palpatine was roasting his bowels with Force Lightning. ;)
I said, you're the one crying. As usual, everyone is being civil to one another until you have to adopt your usual dickhead tone.
And it's quite the case for civility that you're making here.
I couldn't care less who "won" or who "lost." Everyone was having a fun discussion until you came here with your fanboy fanaticism......
thedon99
05/20/2005, 14:26
Hey! Luke was past his crybaby stage by then. That's bad###, Jedi Luke! You've got to love when he freaks out and just beats Vader down with the lightsaber.
However, he became crybaby Luke again when Palpatine was roasting his bowels with Force Lightning. ;)
That's correct 100%. Luke is bad ###, and eventually becomes the best Jedi ever. I can be objective. Luke at his most powerful, after ROTJ, when he has his own Jedi Council could very well take Darth Sidious. Luke against Sidious could go either way. Luke has touched the dark side several times and come back. No other Jedi has ever done that.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 14:28
Well, the prophecy also says that he'll destroy the Sith - which he does at the end of Return of the Jedi. (So it takes him 20 years to do it - we all procrastinate a bit.)
And for the people who are giving the Emp all the credit for setting up Anakin during the fight with Mace, I ask this: how on earth did he know that Anakin would turn for the love of his wife, but not foresee that he'd flip right back for the love of his son? I always got a certain "Reichstag fire" vibe from the prequel's treatment of Palpatine - he's much more of an exceedingly skilled opportunist than he is any kind of "planning ten moves ahead" genius.
Dude with the Sith, you must know that eventually, one day, your apprentice will take you out. It's what they do, if your apprentice is weak, you replace him, if he tries to take you out and fails, well he was not worthy, so you replace him, if he whacks you, then you trained him well and the Dark Side has a newer stronger Leader, in the end you win.... except Anakin messes it all up in #6
Dude with the Sith, you must know that eventually, one day, your apprentice will take you out. It's what they do, if your apprentice is weak, you replace him, if he tries to take you out and fails, well he was not worthy, so you replace him, if he whacks you, then you trained him well and the Dark Side has a newer stronger Leader, in the end you win.... except Anakin messes it all up in #6
...and still the Emperor didn't see it coming.
Weird. :cool:
thedon99
05/20/2005, 14:33
Yeah, yeah, my fanboyism. I was discussing points with bootleeknee and others without insulting characters and overall being negative like you always are. How many times have you been warned? How many times have I? I've never been warned, you on the other hand, countless. Your whole tone and demeanor is insulting, that's just the way you are.
I have made great pains to say how great Yoda and Mace Windu are the entire time we've been discussing this topic. I respect both characters and made that point repeatedly.
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 14:34
Don't cry Thugit. Yoda can't get the job done, Luke can't get the job done, Daddy saves him by snatching up Darth Sidious from behind, and still gets killed by the force lightning. It's a little different when it's one Sith, and 10,000 Jedi. After Yoda loses, he didn't want anymore which is why he ran.
But Luke *did* get the job done. He turns himself over to Imperial forces, bests his father in combat, rejects the Dark side, and appeals to the spark of humanity that's left in Vader. Had he not done those things, Vader would have remained firmly at the Emperor's side.
Yeah, yeah, my fanboyism. I was discussing points with bootleeknee and others without insulting characters and overall being negative like you always are. How many times have you been warned? How many times have I?
Oh, I don't know--that d***head comment is probably going to get you a warning, so I don't think I'd brag about that if I were you.
Your tone was rude and ignorant the entire time--I'm sorry if you didn't realize it.
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 14:38
C'mon, after a couple of decades at the top, the Emperor lost his edge. Happens to all the best evil dictators. The signs were showing when he let the rebellion get really rolling just prior to New Hope. Back in his prime, he'd have put down such a rebellion with some political manoevering that would have them applauding him!
Slight change of topic:
Is it bench league to have noticed the mention of Captain Antilles? To have recognized Bail's ship as Leia's from Ep 4? To have caught Leia's Theme playing when you see the senator and his wife with Baby Leia?
doctorfate77
05/20/2005, 14:39
Luke didn't have a green one until Return of the Jedi, I think.
He lost the blue one when daddy cut his hand off.
are there issues in editing then? I just watched the first one last night. It started as blue, but towards the end of the movie it was green.
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 14:43
are there issues in editing then? I just watched the first one last night. It started as blue, but towards the end of the movie it was green.
I don't know what you're watching, man. I have the OT on DVD, and there's no lightsabers changing color.
Are you sure you weren't watching Wizard of Oz, and mistaking a horse for a lightsaber? ;)
Ghost_Rider_92
05/20/2005, 14:45
I don't know what you're watching, man. I have the OT on DVD, and there's no lightsabers changing color.
Are you sure you weren't watching Wizard of Oz, and mistaking a horse for a lightsaber? ;)
:laugh: :laugh: :p :p . that's funny right there!
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 14:46
Time to plug one of my favorite Star Wars related items:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000I7VZ/qid=1116614523/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/002-6616705-2193606?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
Give a listen to the Imperial March in particular.
C'mon, after a couple of decades at the top, the Emperor lost his edge. Happens to all the best evil dictators. The signs were showing when he let the rebellion get really rolling just prior to New Hope. Back in his prime, he'd have put down such a rebellion with some political manoevering that would have them applauding him!
Yeah, that's true. To his credit, he never ended up on a British tabloid in his underwear, either.
;)
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 14:47
...and still the Emperor didn't see it coming.
Weird. :cool:
It's always comming you just try to stay ahead of it, that's why he wanted to dithc the Father for the son... or his son for his grandson if you bleieve that Palpy fathered" Anakin....
Time to plug one of my favorite Star Wars related items:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000I7VZ/qid=1116614523/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/002-6616705-2193606?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
Give a listen to the Imperial March in particular.
Yikes.
That was awful!
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 14:51
No sir, I don't like it!
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 14:52
Is it bench league to have noticed the mention of Captain Antilles? To have recognized Bail's ship as Leia's from Ep 4? To have caught Leia's Theme playing when you see the senator and his wife with Baby Leia?
Pfft. Scroll back a couple pages and see the discussion about his career progression and the aerodynamic characteristics of a disintegrating capital starship attempting atmospheric reentry. Now *that's* high geekness...
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 14:55
I first heard it at my local comics shop playing in the background, and have loved it ever since.
I love playing it for people without telling them what it is and waiting to they finally realize what they're hearing.
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 14:59
Pfft. Scroll back a couple pages and see the discussion about his career progression and the aerodynamic characteristics of a disintegrating capital starship attempting atmospheric reentry. Now *that's* high geekness...
OK. I thought maybe Leia's Theme would count for something.
I still haven't read this whole thread since I just saw the movie last night.
(My wife's question regarding the opening scene probably counts-- why is there gravity on the ship? It's up too high for that)
OK. I thought maybe Leia's Theme would count for something.
I still haven't read this whole thread since I just saw the movie last night.
(My wife's question regarding the opening scene probably counts-- why is there gravity on the ship? It's up too high for that)
I didn't even know that Leia had her own theme.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 15:04
Oh, I don't know--that d***head comment is probably going to get you a warning, so I don't think I'd brag about that if I were you.
Your tone was rude and ignorant the entire time--I'm sorry if you didn't realize it.
Fine with me. It'll be my first. You, on the other hand, how many have you had?
I probaly don't have more because I don't run across you more often. You're like that with everyone.
As for my tone with everyone else being ignorant and rude, how come you were the only one to say that? When I wasn't even talking to you to begin with? Bootkneelee and I had different opinions, he isn't ignorant for having a different viewpoint. That's the whole point of discussion. The only person that made an ignorant comment was you when you had to insult characters, which noone else was doing.
Fine with me. It'll be my first. You, on the other hand, how many have you had?
I probaly don't have more because I don't run across you more often. You're like that with everyone.
As for my tone with everyone else being ignorant and rude, how come you were the only one to say that? When I wasn't even talking to you to begin with? Bootkneelee and I had different opinions, he isn't ignorant for having a different viewpoint. That's the whole point of discussion. The only person that made an ignorant comment was you when you had to insult characters, which noone else was doing.
Come up for air, dude. I made fun of a fictional character and you responded by calling me a d***head. I disagreed with your opinion and made a few jokes at the expense of a fictional character, and you went nuts over it.
I never called you any names, nor did I insult you. I think you're taking this all a little too seriously.
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 15:13
Check out the preview of Leia's Theme on the link I sent (or look up the real soundtrack). It's the light airy mellow music that pops into the soundtrack from time to time.
Check out the preview of Leia's Theme on the link I sent (or look up the real soundtrack). It's the light airy mellow music that pops into the soundtrack from time to time.
Yeah, I went back and listened to it when I posted that....
I recognize it, I just never realized she had her own theme. (Then again, I didn't see the movies until they were re-released in theatres...and I don't even own any of them!
What kind of geek am I?
;)
Ghost_Rider_92
05/20/2005, 15:18
I didn't even know that Leia had her own theme.
Everyone should have their own Theme music
Who should have their own theme music? (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000053VBC.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg)
Sgt.Hatch
05/20/2005, 15:19
Come on no one like my questions :(
"A few more questions for discussion:
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. So if Anakin wanted to say her life all he had to do is remain a Jedi, do the right thing, and keep Padme's love. Bummer
####, that Palpatine is sneeky
Let me know what you think"
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 15:19
Individuals Theme Music? Okay, tooooo geeky for me, not a dis, just a statement!
Besides coolest theme music of all time, is The Theme From Shaft!
mix that with episode 3 and it might go a lil sumthin like this!
HIT IT!!!!
Who's the Dark Lord Sith that's a sex machine to all the chicks?
Palpatine!
your D-a-m-n right!
Who is the Dark Lord Sith that can sway young Anakin to the Dark side?
Palpatine!
Can I get a Right On?!
They say this cat Palpatine is a Badmutha
SHUT YO MOUTH!
I'm just talking about Palpatine
AND WE CAN DIG IT!
thedon99
05/20/2005, 15:22
Come up for air, dude. I made fun of a fictional character and you responded by calling me a d***head. I disagreed with your opinion and made a few jokes at the expense of a fictional character, and you went nuts over it.
I never called you any names, nor did I insult you. I think you're taking this all a little too seriously.
All right, man, it's over. I seriously didn't care when people say it wasn't part of his plan, or whatever. That's makes it better, because noone knows for sure and it's fun to debate points that will never be made fact. Lucas probaly made it that way on purpose. I was actually defending Luke also, it's just annoying when people insult characters when noone else has for pages. Everyone was disagreeing politely. Sorry about insulting you personally. That wasn't called for.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 15:23
Individuals Theme Music? Okay, tooooo geeky for me, not a dis, just a statement!
Besides coolest theme music of all time, is The Theme From Shaft!
mix that with episode 3 and it might go a lil sumthin like this!
HIT IT!!!!
Who's the Dark Lord Sith that's a sex machine to all the chicks?
Palpatine!
your D-a-m-n right!
Who is the Dark Lord Sith that can sway young Anakin to the Dark side?
Palpatine!
Can I get a Right On?!
They say this cat Palpatine is a Badmutha
SHUT YO MOUTH!
I'm just talking about Palpatine
AND WE CAN DIG IT!
That is the funniest thing I have seen all day. I'm still laughing out loud.
All right, man, it's over. I seriously didn't care when people say it wasn't part of his plan, or whatever. That's makes it better, because noone knows for sure and it's fun to debate points that will never be made fact. Lucas probaly made it that way on purpose. I was actually defending Luke also, it's just annoying when people insult characters when noone else has for pages. Everyone was disagreeing politely. Sorry about insulting you personally. That wasn't called for.
Apology accepted.
If you go back and look, I actually agree with you that the Emperor was just toying with Mace.....
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 15:26
(My wife's question regarding the opening scene probably counts-- why is there gravity on the ship? It's up too high for that)
Oh, that's one of the things for which I was willing to suspend disbelief. It's standard sci fi convention that the gravity plane of any given ship runs parallel to the deck. When the ship goes into freefall, they shouldn't have felt any difference - the gravity plane should have kept everyone rooted firmly to the floor. But, since the ship was so damaged, the gyros were temporarily out of alignment with whatever their reference point was - hence, the walking up the walls scene with Anakin and Palpatine. Yeah, I was rationalizing that while I was watching it...
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 15:27
All right, man, it's over. I seriously didn't care when people say it wasn't part of his plan, or whatever. That's makes it better, because noone knows for sure and it's fun to debate points that will never be made fact. Lucas probaly made it that way on purpose. I was actually defending Luke also, it's just annoying when people insult characters when noone else has for pages. Everyone was disagreeing politely. Sorry about insulting you personally. That wasn't called for.
Don, thugit is just doing what thugit does best [what ever the heck that is] And don't let him play the fictional character card, we all get heated up over fictional characters, why else do we come here and express our opinions with conviction?
Having said that, I think that
A] palpatine is a major player
B] Anakin/Vader threw down in Episode 3
C] mace didn't go out like a chump, but got played
D] Everyone got played by Palpatine is Episode 3, yoda, the Senate, The Jedi Council, Anakin, Etc, Etc,Etc
and Finally even if everything else I've said you do not agree with
Tonite calls for Tequila, Corona's and loose Women!!!!!!
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 15:30
Oh, that's one of the things for which I was willing to suspend disbelief. It's standard sci fi convention that the gravity plane of any given ship runs parallel to the deck. When the ship goes into freefall, they shouldn't have felt any difference - the gravity plane should have kept everyone rooted firmly to the floor. But, since the ship was so damaged, the gyros were temporarily out of alignment with whatever their reference point was - hence, the walking up the walls scene with Anakin and Palpatine. Yeah, I was rationalizing that while I was watching it...
Rationalizing a movie where the characters fight with laser swords, move objects with magical powers, fight alongside aliens and little green goblins, and shoot lighting from their fingers? Just watch the #### move and cheer for the good guys, man. ;)
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 15:34
Well, I do like just a little bit of science in my science fiction...
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 15:35
I've always considered Star Wars to be more Space Fantasy. Star Trek is science fiction.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 15:36
Well, I do like just a little bit of science in my science fiction...
Hail does have a point, I mean you would like to see Anakin and Obi walking in space with out a space suit on.... you want some form of reality in your fantasy.
But then again Fox is right it is just a friggin movie... and I rooted for Palpy and Anakin [heck I knew they would rule this day!]
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 15:37
I've always considered Star Wars to be more Space Fantasy. Star Trek is science fiction.
yup, travel to the far corner's of the galaxy where every one is white and speaks english......... [I hope they noted my sarcasm]
thedon99
05/20/2005, 15:43
Don, thugit is just doing what thugit does best [what ever the heck that is] And don't let him play the fictional character card, we all get heated up over fictional characters, why else do we come here and express our opinions with conviction?
Having said that, I think that
A] palpatine is a major player
B] Anakin/Vader threw down in Episode 3
C] mace didn't go out like a chump, but got played
D] Everyone got played by Palpatine is Episode 3, yoda, the Senate, The Jedi Council, Anakin, Etc, Etc,Etc
and Finally even if everything else I've said you do not agree with
Tonite calls for Tequila, Corona's and loose Women!!!!!!
I agree with pretty much everything you just said, especially the loose women.. Mace would give him a decent fight regardless, he is almost as good as Yoda and Obi-Wan. Yoda also gave him a great fight, and that's the way it should be. He is my favorite character, but I don't want him to dominate every fight scene, it's not as interesting. He's better than Yoda and Mace, but not by much. Yoda is past his prime, and he is still the best Jedi. Had they fought when Yoda was in his prime, it very well could've gone the other way.
As for Thugit playing the fictional character card, oh well. I did insult him personally, I was apologizing for that, nothing else. It's much better when people don't insult characters, then people can have more intelligent discussions. That's why before I say an opinion against a character, I usually try to make it known I still respect that character, like Yoda, and Mace Windu. Just because I don't think Mace Windu had him beat doesn't mean I'm going to make fun of Mace. That's my point.
Darth Sabre
05/20/2005, 15:47
Oh, that's one of the things for which I was willing to suspend disbelief. It's standard sci fi convention that the gravity plane of any given ship runs parallel to the deck. When the ship goes into freefall, they shouldn't have felt any difference - the gravity plane should have kept everyone rooted firmly to the floor. But, since the ship was so damaged, the gyros were temporarily out of alignment with whatever their reference point was - hence, the walking up the walls scene with Anakin and Palpatine. Yeah, I was rationalizing that while I was watching it...
You know, if I had to ratioalize everything in movies, based on real things, I wouldn't bother watching them. What would be the point?
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 15:48
I agree with pretty much everything you just said, especially the loose women.. Mace would give him a decent fight regardless, he is almost as good as Yoda and Obi-Wan. Yoda also gave him a great fight, and that's the way it should be. He is my favorite character, but I don't want him to dominate every fight scene, it's not as interesting. He's better than Yoda and Mace, but not by much. Yoda is past his prime, and he is still the best Jedi. Had they fought when Yoda was in his prime, it very well could've gone the other way.
As for Thugit playing the fictional character card, oh well. I did insult him personally, I was apologizing for that, nothing else. It's much better when people don't insult characters, then people can have more intelligent discussions. That's why before I say an opinion against a character, I usually try to make it known I still respect that character, like Yoda, and Mace Windu. Just because I don't think Mace Windu had him beat doesn't mean I'm going to make fun of Mace. That's my point.
Plus Mace is Samuel L. Jackson the baddest Mofo out there, He and Bobby Deniro are the two baddest actors out there and the only thing is, I can't see Bobby in Star Wars, no Scratch that, he would have made a kick-arse Sith Lord....
thedon99
05/20/2005, 15:54
People complain about Sam as Mace, but that's who I'd want anyway. Jackie Brown, Pulp Fiction, his characters are the best. He and Robert De Niro, who is my favorite actor are great together in Jackie Brown. Love the scene where Sam kills DeNiro. Classic.
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 15:56
Star Trek is also science fantasy with more quasi-techno-babble to explan things.
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 16:02
Also, in Star Trek you can make anything happen by modifying the deflector array.
doctorfate77
05/20/2005, 16:03
whats the OT?
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 16:04
You know, if I had to ratioalize everything in movies, based on real things, I wouldn't bother watching them. What would be the point?
Oh, I pretty much can't watch Jerry Bruckheimer movies. It's two hours of me saying, "Wait - that doesn't do that. And those other things didn't exist during this time period." It sounds nitpicky, but it'd be as if they filmed a movie where things fell up, steel shattered like glass, and, with no explanation, a dinosaur was shown driving a Panzer Mark IV. All of this, after the opening credits say, "Based on a true story." And don't even get me started on "The Core"...
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 16:04
People complain about Sam as Mace, but that's who I'd want anyway. Jackie Brown, Pulp Fiction, his characters are the best. He and Robert De Niro, who is my favorite actor are great together in Jackie Brown. Love the scene where Sam kills DeNiro. Classic.
Dude, the look on Bobby's face after Sam shoots him....PRICELESS!!!!!
And Bump who ever didn't like Sam as Mace, he played the part well.
Very laid back in the first Episode, showed what he was made of in #2 and went out in a blaze is #3...what more can you ask for?
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 16:08
whats the OT?
The Original Trilogy. :)
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 16:08
Oh, I pretty much can't watch Jerry Bruckheimer movies. It's two hours of me saying, "Wait - that doesn't do that. And those other things didn't exist during this time period." It sounds nitpicky, but it'd be as if they filmed a movie where things fell up, steel shattered like glass, and, with no explanation, a dinosaur was shown driving a Panzer Mark IV. All of this, after the opening credits say, "Based on a true story." And don't even get me started on "The Core"...
I dunno, that sounds pretty entertaining. ;) :p
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 16:14
The trick to enjoying some Bruckheimer movies is to treat the tech like Star Trek tech. Assume there's an explanation for the whatsis that's just a little beyonf our understanding.
Worked for the Rock, Enemy of the State, etc. But I do skip most of his movies.
So is Clone Wars available for rent or something? I was avoiding it (like all things Star Wars) to avoid spoilerage until I saw Ep 3. The doors are now open.
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 16:16
DUDE! Clone Wars wouldn't have spoiled anything for you, and it rocks! Season 1 is out on DVD, but not 2. HOWEVER, every episode from start to finish is available on Starwars.com to watch for free.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 16:18
DUDE! Clone Wars wouldn't have spoiled anything for you, and it rocks! Season 1 is out on DVD, but not 2. HOWEVER, every episode from start to finish is available on Starwars.com to watch for free.
I need to watch those cause I could not Undestand why the robot General was coughing like he smoked 3 packs of camels a day for 20 years!
FoxInStocks
05/20/2005, 16:20
The VERY last episode of the series explains it. I won't spoil it for you, though.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 16:54
The VERY last episode of the series explains it. I won't spoil it for you, though.
Since he won't spoil it for you, I won't either. But, let's just say it makes your man Mace that much more of a bad ###. Grievous coughing will be explained when you watch it.
I really liked Shaak Ti in the second season. She was pretty tricky. A very resourceful Jedi Master indeed.
Sgt.Hatch
05/20/2005, 17:00
Old questions
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. He thought becoming a Sith would save here, but it was actually what killed her. Bummer!
NEW QUESTIONS
1. OK, Dooku seems to own Obi in part III, and Anakin owns Dooku, so shouldn't a darkside Anakin own Obi? Did Obi get lucky or did his power increase throughout the movie? Matter of fact where does Obi stand, how powerful is he? Cartoon Grevious is a bad as#, taking on multiple Jedi at once killing most of them, but Obi takes him alone?
2. Was Grevious coughing do to Mace's last scene in Clone Wars episode 2?
3. Did anyone see Lucas as an extra, I didn't, but I know he was?
4. Does Anakin/Vader know that the Sepertist leaders were working for Sidious before he slaughtered them all?
Let me know what you think
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 17:08
Old questions
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. He thought becoming a Sith would save here, but it was actually what killed her. Bummer!
NEW QUESTIONS
1. OK, Dooku seems to own Obi in part III, and Anakin owns Dooku, so shouldn't a darkside Anakin own Obi? Did Obi get lucky or did his power increase throughout the movie? Matter of fact where does Obi stand, how powerful is he? Cartoon Grevious is a bad as#, taking on multiple Jedi at once killing most of them, but Obi takes him alone?
2. Was Grevious coughing do to Mace's last scene in Clone Wars episode 2?
3. Did anyone see Lucas as an extra, I didn't, but I know he was?
4. Does Anakin/Vader know that the Sepertist leaders were working for Sidious before he slaughtered them all?
Let me know what you think
My Two Cent$
1] Obi did get lucky....perse' He told Anakin, I have the advantage of the high ground, don't do it, but Anakin is sooooooo corky [not really corky] that he has to ry it, and he got, GOT!!!
2] I need to watch the cartoon, but my friends say that Mace did jack Grevious up, so it must be true!
3] I missed Lucas big head if it was in it, but I did see the chick with the fake Knockers!
4] I doubt it, Anakin is also a pawn of Palpy, he even believed that he is doing good by slaying them.... Palpatine is the man!
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 17:08
Old questions
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. He thought becoming a Sith would save here, but it was actually what killed her. Bummer!
NEW QUESTIONS
1. OK, Dooku seems to own Obi in part III, and Anakin owns Dooku, so shouldn't a darkside Anakin own Obi? Did Obi get lucky or did his power increase throughout the movie? Matter of fact where does Obi stand, how powerful is he? Cartoon Grevious is a bad as#, taking on multiple Jedi at once killing most of them, but Obi takes him alone?
2. Was Grevious coughing do to Mace's last scene in Clone Wars episode 2?
3. Did anyone see Lucas as an extra, I didn't, but I know he was?
4. Does Anakin/Vader know that the Sepertist leaders were working for Sidious before he slaughtered them all?
Let me know what you think
My Two Cent$
1] Obi did get lucky....perse' He told Anakin, I have the advantage of the high ground, don't do it, but Anakin is sooooooo corky [not really corky] that he has to try it, and he got, GOT!!!
2] I need to watch the cartoon, but my friends say that Mace did jack Grevious up, so it must be true!
3] I missed Lucas big head if it was in it, but I did see the chick with the fake Knockers!
4] I doubt it, Anakin is also a pawn of Palpy, he even believed that he is doing good by slaying them.... Palpatine is the man!
I'm not sure if you're saying accelleration or velocity, so I'll chime in with geek speak and point out that you can't actually accellerate faster than the pull of gravity. (On Earth) the force of Gravity is 32 feet / second square, so you will continue to accellerate until you reach terminal velocity, which is determined by your drag.
Then, like you said, you can affect drag by chaging your aerodynamics.
All of that is moot though, when you're talking about science fiction where ships have artificial gravity, and "force shields" both of which can pretty much do anything the writer wants, because there's not real world circumstances to judge the effects against.
I was talking about velocity. Thanks, Aaron, for the correction.
You know something, I really expected the Emperor to lay the smack down on Yoda in this film, but it didnt really happen. Oh, dont get me wrong, the guy PROVED he can handle himself in combat, to say the least, but to me he looked to be the rough overall equal to the likes of both Yoda and Mace Windu.
We finally proved Palpatine CAN use a lightsaber (something that was 6 TOCs in the waiting), but as far as him putting the beat down on Mace and/or Yoda, well, I think Id call them all rough equals from what I saw (maybe a bit more power on Palpatine, but not by that much really)
I've been saying the Emperor could use a light saber from the get go... ;)
Well, Jedi do have the ability to absorb incoming energy blasts (ala Vader in ESB) and according to the novels they can place themselves and a death like coma, so it is possible she played dead until she could make her escape.
If only Kit Fisto had the same opportunity, I really liked him :(
Well, to be exact: Darth Vader actually deflected the blaster bolts Han fired at him in ESB. But, yes, Jedi can absorb certain energies.
To the whole lack of proression for Captain Antilles...
Isn't Captain Antilles the father of Wedge Antilles?
Also a question?
Did they show how Shaak Ti (Female Jedi with the large red and white head dress/growth) dies. They showed every other named Jedi, but I don't recall seeing her. Or was she dead at the end of Clone Wars?
Captain Antilles is not the father of Wedge. Lucas has said that the surname Antilles is akin to our modern day surnames of Jones and Smith.
At the end of Clone Wars she was tied from the ceiling by some sort of energy cables by General Grievous. She was still conscious and able to speak, so I don't think it killed her. My hope is that she was one of the Jedi that was out on the fringe and managed to elude the mass genocide. I mean, some Jedi have to survive if there's gonna be a TV show, right?
Many Jedi do indeed escape the original Order 66. But, sadly, Darth Vader spends the next 20 years hunting down and terminating them all. The only Jedi that lived at the beginning of Episode IV: ANH are:
Yoda
Luke
Leia
Obi-Wan
Mara Jade
C'baoth
And a few more that were revealed in the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse
***Spoiler***
Mace totally laid the smack down on Sidious. Woot! Owned him!
When you see the movie again pay very close attention to this battle. Palpatine LET Mace win by throwing the fight. Palpatine knew Anakin was approaching and wanted to come across as the victim to an unjustified attack by Mace Windu. Just listen to how he begs for mercy and begs Ani to help him.
IMHO, Darth Sidious could have killed Mace anytime he wanted, but that wouldn't have benefitted him at all.
Um, why again did Yoda run. Really why did he take that first hit from the Emporer. Man that had to have taken most of the fight out of him. ####!!
I don't think even Yoda knew how powerful the Emperor really was.
I was disappointed that Yoda just gave in so quickly and said he was going into exile when Bail Organa rescued him. But, this could have been for two reasons:
1) The movie is under time constraints and certain things were just quick "footnotes" so the movie could make the 2-hour cut.
2) Yoda just got scared and feared for his life after the whuppin' Palpy gave him. Even Sun-Tsu states that if a Warrior cannot win a battle then the Warrior should not engage that battle. And, also, it is okay to retreat and garner your forces to fight again another day.
What's up with that "Force Ghost" Thing? How exactly does Obi-Wan and Yoda get it but not Qui-Gon? And how's that work for Vader?
Qui-Gon does get it. This movie reveals that it is Qui-Gon himself that first discovers how to merge fully with the Force and come back to speak with the living as a Force Ghost.
Lucas did a great job tying up this loose end. All the Jedi that died throughout the prequels never disappeared and became one with the Force. Yet, in the original trilogy Obi-Wan and Yoda (and Vader) were able to do it. Now we know why.
As to Vader being able to do it: The Emperor taught him. Remember the line of dialogue Palpatine and Anakin had? He told Anakin his Master taught him how to defeat death and basically be immortal.
Now, obviously, the Dark Side immortality is far different than the Light Side version... check out the early Sith-related comics from Dark Horse Comics for examples. But, when Vader/Anakin crossed back over to the Light Side at the end of E VI: RotJ, he was also able to use the Light Side version of joining fully with the Force.
I actually tought the Palpatine sensed anakin coming back and lost on purpose so he could look like a weak old man in need and the jedi counsil as the 'evil ones' that tried to overthrow democratie
can somebody also explain me why he gets all deformed when shooting lightning at Windu ? it doesn't seem to be a problem when he fights Yoda.
Using the Dark Side of the Force as easily as Palpatine does causes a Dark Jedi to basically waste away. The Dark Side energies rot the body and consume it. Thus is the price to pay for using the Dark Side.
It has been established in Dark Empire, Dark Empire II, Empire's End (all Dark Horse Comics and LucasFilms approved as in-continuity) and in Timothy Zahn's original trilogy (once again... LucasFilms approved) that the Emperor had a cache of personal clone bodies stashed around. Whenever he burned out a body he would "jump" into a new and younger clone body. Using the Dark Side, though, rapidly disintegrated these bodies and he was constantly "jumping" around.
As a matter of fact, at the end of RotJ, he never died when tossed down the shaft by Vader. He moved his essence/soul into a clone body and retreated to the planet Byss where he regrouped the Empire. This was all detailed in Dark Empire/Dark Empire II/Empire's End.
It was in Empire's End that the last clone body and he himself were killed permanently. It was also during this series that Luke intentionally crossed over to the Dark Side to learn its ways. Luke realized that he couldn't be a great Jedi Master if he only knew one side of the Force. Luke then learned from Palpatine and also used this time to learn how to defeat him. Luke then crossed back over to the Light Side which was the hardest thing he ever did. This, then, made him the greatest Jedi Master ever.
I guess the Mace vs Palpatine brawl will be one of those things debated by SW fans for years to come...
Personally, I think Mace schooled him and there was nothing Palpatine could have done about it.
I don't buy the Palpatine wants to convice Anakin the Jedi are bad and thus plays weak. How could Mace or the Jedi be "bad" in Anakin's eyes? Mace lead a 200 Jedi task force (that got decimated btw) to rescue Anakin's punk ### in AoTC.
Mace/Palp's fight mirrors the Anakin/Dooku fight from the start of the movie. Both light side Jedi are in positions to kill (execution style) the dark side Jedi. Anakin does it. Mace is about to do it.
I think Palp got lucky that Anakin showed up and "changed teams" in order to save Padme. I don't think it was part of his strategy. Up to that point...Palp was lying on a window edge, skin wrinkled, with his Sith Lightning being absorbed by Mace's saber.
Perhaps he played it up the possum game when Anakin was on the fence...but he was beaten like a stray dog before all that by Mace.
Remember:
Darth Sidious/Palpatine is a MASTER planner and manipulator. Much like Doctor Doom, nothing happens that he doesn't take into account already.
And convincing Anakin that the Jedi Council was a fascist regime was no problem for Palpy. He already had Ani so twisted and confused that he could have told him that Padme was really a man and he would have bought it.
question for the geeks.
Obi Wan gives Luke his dad's Lightsaber. Why is it green, if it was always blue?
Go back, my young padawan, and re-watch E IV: ANH. The light saber Obi-Wan gives him at his hut is blue.
Luke's green-bladed light saber made its appearance in RotJ when he made it himself:
1) To replace the one he lost when Vader cut his hand off at Bespin, and
2) Constructing a light saber is one of the final chores a Jedi does before becoming a Jedi
Well, the prophecy also says that he'll destroy the Sith - which he does at the end of Return of the Jedi. (So it takes him 20 years to do it - we all procrastinate a bit.)
And for the people who are giving the Emp all the credit for setting up Anakin during the fight with Mace, I ask this: how on earth did he know that Anakin would turn for the love of his wife, but not foresee that he'd flip right back for the love of his son? I always got a certain "Reichstag fire" vibe from the prequel's treatment of Palpatine - he's much more of an exceedingly skilled opportunist than he is any kind of "planning ten moves ahead" genius.
Possible answer:
Palpy had Vader under his direct influence for over 20 years. He grew over confidant in his influence over Anakin and let his attention lapse. Thus, Luke was able to undermine his influence over Vader and bring him back to the Light Side.
Let's also not forget that a parent's love for their child(ren) can far outreach the love of a spouse.
I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
I couldn't hear you over the Emperor exploding as he fell to his death after being outwitted by crybaby Luke.....
:p :p :p
He didn't die. He moved his essence into another clone body...
:laugh: :laugh:
C'mon, after a couple of decades at the top, the Emperor lost his edge. Happens to all the best evil dictators. The signs were showing when he let the rebellion get really rolling just prior to New Hope. Back in his prime, he'd have put down such a rebellion with some political manoevering that would have them applauding him!
Slight change of topic:
Is it bench league to have noticed the mention of Captain Antilles? To have recognized Bail's ship as Leia's from Ep 4? To have caught Leia's Theme playing when you see the senator and his wife with Baby Leia?
Look even closer. The entire set of the Tantive IV (the Corellian Corvette in the opening sequence of ANH) was an actual set. There was NO CGI. Lucas wanted a tribute to the early days and wax the nostalgic for this set that brings it full-circle.
(My wife's question regarding the opening scene probably counts-- why is there gravity on the ship? It's up too high for that)
Answer: Artificial gravity.
Also, in Star Trek you can make anything happen by modifying the deflector array.
And don't forget: EVERY problem can be fixed somehow with a transporter.
whats the OT?
OT = Original Trilogy.
...So is Clone Wars available for rent or something? I was avoiding it (like all things Star Wars) to avoid spoilerage until I saw Ep 3. The doors are now open.
What FiS said...
Plus:
The Clone Wars takes place inbetween Episodes II and III. Therefore, watching them would have helped you rather than have been a spoiler... ;)
Old questions
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
This is a question only George Lucas knows the answer to.
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. He thought becoming a Sith would save here, but it was actually what killed her. Bummer!
Yes.
I'm not sure how this is a question, though. In real life MANY people lose the will to live and succumb to their injuries/illnesses/diseases/etc...
NEW QUESTIONS
1. OK, Dooku seems to own Obi in part III, and Anakin owns Dooku, so shouldn't a darkside Anakin own Obi? Did Obi get lucky or did his power increase throughout the movie? Matter of fact where does Obi stand, how powerful is he? Cartoon Grevious is a bad as#, taking on multiple Jedi at once killing most of them, but Obi takes him alone?
Obi-Wan is just as powerful as Yoda and Mace Windu. RE: his fight with Dooku-- even Obi-Wan is fallible. Dooku has been quoted as saying his light saber skills are second only to Yoda.
2. Was Grevious coughing do to Mace's last scene in Clone Wars episode 2?
Yes.
3. Did anyone see Lucas as an extra, I didn't, but I know he was?
He was there. I didn't catch him this time, but I will by the third or fourth time I see it in the next few days.
4. Does Anakin/Vader know that the Sepertist leaders were working for Sidious before he slaughtered them all?
He probably figured it out.
Let me know what you think
Happy? :laugh:
thedon99
05/20/2005, 17:17
Old questions
1. Did Palpatine create Anakin? He hints that his master knew how to manipulate the Middy Cloren (Sorry, no clue how to spell that) to create life, and that his master taught him everything. What do you guys think?
2. How about this one: Padme only died at childbirth because she "lost the will to live" and this was because Anakin broke her heart with his traitorist ways. He thought becoming a Sith would save here, but it was actually what killed her. Bummer!
NEW QUESTIONS
1. OK, Dooku seems to own Obi in part III, and Anakin owns Dooku, so shouldn't a darkside Anakin own Obi? Did Obi get lucky or did his power increase throughout the movie? Matter of fact where does Obi stand, how powerful is he? Cartoon Grevious is a bad as#, taking on multiple Jedi at once killing most of them, but Obi takes him alone?
2. Was Grevious coughing do to Mace's last scene in Clone Wars episode 2?
3. Did anyone see Lucas as an extra, I didn't, but I know he was?
4. Does Anakin/Vader know that the Sepertist leaders were working for Sidious before he slaughtered them all?
Let me know what you think
Old questions. 1. Did Palpatine or Darth Plagueis create Anakin? I think Darth Sidious is more than capable of such a plot. Did he? Who knows. Lucas probaly specifically raised that question so it could be debated, just like the Windu/Sidious scene. If he did, then he's the smartest mother ####er of all time.
2. I can see that definitely. That sounds correct to me. So, instead of saving Padme like Sids bull####ted Anakin with, her dying served Sids well, as he told Anakin that he killed her in his anger, further pushing Anakin to the dark side. Sids is a genius.
New Questions
1. Obi-Wan is the luckiest Jedi, period. But, it's also skill. I'd agree Vader is more powerful, but Obi-Wan has the skill, luck, and patience. He exploited Anakin's weakness and beat him. Plain and simple. Dooku lost to Anakin because Anakin got angry, and because Palpatine was goading Anakin on. See the look Dooku gave Palpatine after he tells Anakin to kill him? He betrayed him in every way., he wanted to replace him with Anakin.
2. Yes. Although, I'm pretty sure that Lucas does not consider the Clone Wars cartoon official like the movies, but it makes sense. I didn't get to see every episode of season 2, so I was unsure if that was why because someone told me that Aayla Secura got killed in Season 2 by Grievous. That obviously didn't happen. I think she'd take him anyway. That Mace Windu moment I did see, and it was bad ###.
3. Didn't pay close enough attention, and I really don't care.
4. Possibly yes. But, then again maybe not. I really don't see why Anakin would care at that point. But, then again, Anakin probaly didn't know because Sids had Anakin convinced that the Jedi were trying to overthrow the Republic, not Palpatine. Anakin would've known different had he known the Separatists were in cahoots with Sids.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 17:24
Rogan, thank you for bringing out the truth about Palpatine. Everything you've said is 100% true, exactly what I've been saying for pages. Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time. Vader has more potential, but we know Sids would never let him attain that potential.
Stepper79
05/20/2005, 17:26
have you seen the opening day numbers $50 million in one day (including 16 million at the midnight showings)
and then I couldn't resist it so I threw in ANH and at least started it but after seeing ep III you start to understand why Owen was so grumpy and kept delaying luke's entry into the academy and why R2 knew where to go . granted they were obvious by the end of empire but this puts a little more spin on it. Also think about this everytime 3PO says thank the maker - its thank you Darth vader,
lastly the only bad thing about the prequels is that it completely kills the shock of "LUKE, I am your Father" in ESB think back to the first time you Learned that Vader was luke's fahter I mean that was one of the Biggest moments in movie history that is now been obliterated by the prequels. My son will never know that shock when he finally watches Empire.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 17:30
lastly the only bad thing about the prequels is that it completely kills the shock of "LUKE, I am your Father" in ESB think back to the first time you Learned that Vader was luke's fahter I mean that was one of the Biggest moments in movie history that is now been obliterated by the prequels. My son will never know that shock when he finally watches Empire.[/QUOTE]
Just show him 4, 5, 6 then 1, 2, 3 and he'll be okay!
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 17:36
QUOTE ro_gan
Many Jedi do indeed escape the original Order 66. But, sadly, Darth Vader spends the next 20 years hunting down and terminating them all. The only Jedi that lived at the beginning of Episode IV: ANH are:
Yoda
Luke
Leia
Obi-Wan
Mara Jade
C'baoth
And a few more that were revealed in the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse
Except that Luke and Leia were Jedi who survived so mush as were trained after the purging. They weren't Jedi at the start of Ep4.
The Clone Wars takes place inbetween Episodes II and III. Therefore, watching them would have helped you rather than have been a spoiler... ;)
Except I would have lost the impact of Grevious pulling out 4 lightsabers to fight with. That was quite an "oh sh--" moment that would have been spoiled. Better to go in cold.
Sgt.Hatch
05/20/2005, 17:36
Rogan, thank you for bringing out the truth about Palpatine. Everything you've said is 100% true, exactly what I've been saying for pages. Darth Sidious is the most powerful Sith of all time. Vader has more potential, but we know Sids would never let him attain that potential.
I'm not quit sure. I thought it was strange when Sidious told Yoda that Anakin would grow to be more powerful than anyone. Didn't he say something like that? I didn't think that line fit. Sorry I don't rember how it actually played out
Stepper79
05/20/2005, 17:37
i know I know but you get my meaning, they took it away anyway in the DVD's becasue ol'Paply tells Vader that luke is his son in the new footage added in the ESB DVD's
one other cool little homage played was that the white haired pilot of the tantive IV is Jeremy Bullock who was Boba Fett in the OT, I thought was cool that they brought him in for a scene.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 17:43
I'm not quit sure. I thought it was strange when Sidious told Yoda that Anakin would grow to be more powerful than anyone. Didn't he say something like that? I didn't think that line fit. Sorry I don't rember how it actually played out
Yes, he does say that to Yoda, but I see it as him just talking #### to Yoda. Vader does have the potential, especially since his midichlorian count is around 27,000, Sidious has around 20,000. Yoda-almost 18,000. They are the top three. But, Sidious never plans on Vader exceeding his power, which would fit in with the argument that Sidious arranged Anakin's birth. He had him born, knowing he can control the supposed Chosen One. Which is exactly what Sidious does to Anakin. Not saying he did arrange Anakin's birth but it makes sense. As long as he can control him, he's a good asset to have. And, let's face it, based on the way he treats Dooku, and what it means to be a Sith Master like Sidious that's all Anakin is, an asset, a tool to be used. Sure, he probaly cares for Vader, much like he would a pet dog.
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 17:46
I don't think even Yoda knew how powerful the Emperor really was.
I was disappointed that Yoda just gave in so quickly and said he was going into exile when Bail Organa rescued him. But, this could have been for two reasons:
1) The movie is under time constraints and certain things were just quick "footnotes" so the movie could make the 2-hour cut.
2) Yoda just got scared and feared for his life after the whuppin' Palpy gave him. Even Sun-Tsu states that if a Warrior cannot win a battle then the Warrior should not engage that battle. And, also, it is okay to retreat and garner your forces to fight again another day.
I suggest possibility three - parallelism. One of Lucas' goals in this movie was to tie everything up and draw links to the original trilogy. So you get Wookiees swinging onto enemy vehicles (with requisite Tarzan yell), Padme/Leia hairstyle similarities, and tertiary characters who will reappear in A New Hope. The next time that things will look this bad for the Jedi (and the Republic), Luke is dangling from a weather vane underneath Cloud City. I thought that Yoda's method of escape was intended to evoke a little nostalgia while playing up the cyclic nature of the Force...
thedon99
05/20/2005, 18:11
I suggest possibility three - parallelism. One of Lucas' goals in this movie was to tie everything up and draw links to the original trilogy. So you get Wookiees swinging onto enemy vehicles (with requisite Tarzan yell), Padme/Leia hairstyle similarities, and tertiary characters who will reappear in A New Hope. The next time that things will look this bad for the Jedi (and the Republic), Luke is dangling from a weather vane underneath Cloud City. I thought that Yoda's method of escape was intended to evoke a little nostalgia while playing up the cyclic nature of the Force...
Nice ideas. I did notice some of the things you are referring to.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 18:11
Yes, he does say that to Yoda, but I see it as him just talking #### to Yoda. Vader does have the potential, especially since his midichlorian count is around 27,000, Sidious has around 20,000. Yoda-almost 18,000. They are the top three. But, Sidious never plans on Vader exceeding his power, which would fit in with the argument that Sidious arranged Anakin's birth. He had him born, knowing he can control the supposed Chosen One. Which is exactly what Sidious does to Anakin. Not saying he did arrange Anakin's birth but it makes sense. As long as he can control him, he's a good asset to have. And, let's face it, based on the way he treats Dooku, and what it means to be a Sith Master like Sidious that's all Anakin is, an asset, a tool to be used. Sure, he probaly cares for Vader, much like he would a pet dog.
He only cares for Vader as much as Vader can help him in his cause, after all in #6 he wants to kick Vader to the curb and have Luke take his place, and had he done that he would have used Luke for as long as Luke was valuble to him, if he could train Lea and use her he'd replace Luke with Lea, after all we all knowthat he Force is stronger in Lea than it is in Luke.....
Sgt.Hatch
05/20/2005, 18:12
Another question:
Do you think order 66 was genedically implanted in the clones, why do they all turn? Do they have to follow Palpatine's orders? He was the one that ordered the clones.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 18:21
I don't think Yoda's escape was because Luke Skywalker did so in a similiar fashion. That could've played a part as to how Yoda gets defeated however. Yoda was just outclassed. Not by much, but enough. Once he lost his lightsaber, he's at a big disadvantage.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 18:24
Another question:
Do you think order 66 was genedically implanted in the clones, why do they all turn? Do they have to follow Palpatine's orders? He was the one that ordered the clones.
I think it's somehow genetically engineered. He kills Sifo Dyas when he refuses to become his apprentice. He then uses Sifo Dyas' personality or alter ego to order the clones. Another piece of Palpatine genius.
thedon99
05/20/2005, 18:27
He only cares for Vader as much as Vader can help him in his cause, after all in #6 he wants to kick Vader to the curb and have Luke take his place, and had he done that he would have used Luke for as long as Luke was valuble to him, if he could train Lea and use her he'd replace Luke with Lea, after all we all knowthat he Force is stronger in Lea than it is in Luke.....
Precisely my friend. When Vader tries to recruit Luke to overthrow Sids, Sids knew all about it. Henceforth, have Luke kill Vader, replace Vader at his side. Remember right after Luke cuts off Vader's hand, what does Sids do? Laughs and claps his hands. I love that guy.
Leia will never be better than Luke regardless, she doesn't have the training and experiences Luke has gone through. Like Rogan and I have both said, Luke went to the dark side, and touched it more than once. he had the stregth to come back. He's the best Jedi ever.
lastly the only bad thing about the prequels is that it completely kills the shock of "LUKE, I am your Father" in ESB think back to the first time you Learned that Vader was luke's fahter I mean that was one of the Biggest moments in movie history that is now been obliterated by the prequels. My son will never know that shock when he finally watches Empire.
Just show him 4, 5, 6 then 1, 2, 3 and he'll be okay![/QUOTE]
You beat me to it.
2. Yes. Although, I'm pretty sure that Lucas does not consider the Clone Wars cartoon official like the movies, but it makes sense. I didn't get to see every episode of season 2, so I was unsure if that was why because someone told me that Aayla Secura got killed in Season 2 by Grievous. That obviously didn't happen. I think she'd take him anyway. That Mace Windu moment I did see, and it was bad ###.
Actually, Lucas and LucasFilms do acknowledge the Clone Wars cartoons as official canon. EVERY comic/novel/cartoon that is SW-related has to get official approval from LucasFilms first. Every author that writes a novel also has to make sure that nothing is contradicted from a previous or future novel. LucasFilms keeps a tight lid on continuity. Sure, some things slip by from time to time, but consider the Clone Wars 'toons as canon.
bootkneelee
05/20/2005, 18:36
Precisely my friend. When Vader tries to recruit Luke to overthrow Sids, Sids knew all about it. Henceforth, have Luke kill Vader, replace Vader at his side. Remember right after Luke cuts off Vader's hand, what does Sids do? Laughs and claps his hands. I love that guy.
Leia will never be better than Luke regardless, she doesn't have the training and experiences Luke has gone through. Like Rogan and I have both said, Luke went to the dark side, and touched it more than once. he had the stregth to come back. He's the best Jedi ever.
I said that the Force is stronger in Lea than it is in Luke, If Lea had trained to be a Jedi she'd run rings around Luke. With Lea it flowed into her Kids [with a lil help from Han...
Someone help me with this, it's in the books... it took Luke a week to put his Light Saber togehter when he was being trained by Yoda and when Luke was training Lea it took her like a day or so....
QUOTE ro_gan
Many Jedi do indeed escape the original Order 66. But, sadly, Darth Vader spends the next 20 years hunting down and terminating them all. The only Jedi that lived at the beginning of Episode IV: ANH are:
Yoda
Luke
Leia
Obi-Wan
Mara Jade
C'baoth
And a few more that were revealed in the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse
Except that Luke and Leia were Jedi who survived so mush as were trained after the purging. They weren't Jedi at the start of Ep4.
The Clone Wars takes place inbetween Episodes II and III. Therefore, watching them would have helped you rather than have been a spoiler... ;)
Except I would have lost the impact of Grevious pulling out 4 lightsabers to fight with. That was quite an "oh sh--" moment that would have been spoiled. Better to go in cold.
As to Luke & Leia: I have always considered them to be true Jedi even though both never achieved any training until the Original Trilogy. Although, for Leia it is actually in the Expanded SW U. They both come from Anakin and that means that their midi chlorian levels are probably just as high as his.
As to General Grevious: true.
I suggest possibility three - parallelism. One of Lucas' goals in this movie was to tie everything up and draw links to the original trilogy. So you get Wookiees swinging onto enemy vehicles (with requisite Tarzan yell), Padme/Leia hairstyle similarities, and tertiary characters who will reappear in A New Hope. The next time that things will look this bad for the Jedi (and the Republic), Luke is dangling from a weather vane underneath Cloud City. I thought that Yoda's method of escape was intended to evoke a little nostalgia while playing up the cyclic nature of the Force...
I definitely agree with you.
But, I was referring more to the fact that Yoda called it quits right then and there. He apparently had no future plans to go back and infiltrate Palpatine's "lair" and challenge him again.
It was basically: "My jabronie, green bum just got handed to me it did. Exile myself I will. So long and for all the fish- thanks!"
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 18:44
Sure, some things slip by from time to time, but consider the Clone Wars 'toons as canon.
One of the slips that I (and many others, I'm sure) caught was the comment in one of the Zahn books that Vader lost his right hand as punishment for the destruction of the first Death Star. However, as this statement was made by Mara Jade (who wasn't exactly inside the loop on a wide variety of things), one can write that off as the Emperor simply playing with the heads of his servants...
Another question:
Do you think order 66 was genedically implanted in the clones, why do they all turn? Do they have to follow Palpatine's orders? He was the one that ordered the clones.
IIRC, Order 66 is a genetic trait Palpatine had Master Syfo Dyus arrange with the Cloners. Although, speculation has been raised that Syfo Dyus had been killed by Palpatine awile ago and Palpy pretended to be him or had someone else pretend to be him when the Cloners signed the contract to construct the Clone Army.
Precisely my friend. When Vader tries to recruit Luke to overthrow Sids, Sids knew all about it. Henceforth, have Luke kill Vader, replace Vader at his side. Remember right after Luke cuts off Vader's hand, what does Sids do? Laughs and claps his hands. I love that guy.
Leia will never be better than Luke regardless, she doesn't have the training and experiences Luke has gone through. Like Rogan and I have both said, Luke went to the dark side, and touched it more than once. he had the stregth to come back. He's the best Jedi ever.
IIRC, Leia is stronger in the Force than Luke. BUT--
Her aptitude in the Force will always be like Palpatine's: Used for politics and passive in nature.
Remember, Leia is a politician. She was raised in that lifestyle. This could also be a strong conjecture that Palpatine did indeed create Anakin. Leia inherited Palpy's Force-strengths and political savvy.
Leia may be stronger in the Force than Luke, but even she has admitted in the Expanded SW U that she could NEVER be a Jedi Knight like Luke. Her Force abilities are far more passive in nature. But, if push came to shove, she could definitely handle herself in a light saber battle.
hail_eris
05/20/2005, 18:57
Okay, there's a select group of people who would find an in-depth examination of Darth Vader's medical history to be an interesting read. For you, I offer this link (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/injuries.html). You shouldn't feel any shame when you click it - you're among friends here...
One of the slips that I (and many others, I'm sure) caught was the comment in one of the Zahn books that Vader lost his right hand as punishment for the destruction of the first Death Star. However, as this statement was made by Mara Jade (who wasn't exactly inside the loop on a wide variety of things), one can write that off as the Emperor simply playing with the heads of his servants...
True. The Emperor played Mara Jade like a fiddle just like he did everyone else.
Okay, there's a select group of people who would find an in-depth examination of Darth Vader's medical history to be an interesting read. For you, I offer this link (http://www.theforce.net/swtc/injuries.html). You shouldn't feel any shame when you click it - you're among friends here...
Wow! That was a very interesting read. Thanks, h_r!!
Rokk_Krinn
05/20/2005, 20:18
Okay, as I said, really liked it, but a couple issues I had with the movie:
*minor spoilers*
1) After 18 years, Captain Antilles is *still* commanding the same ship? And he's still only a captain? Just how slow is the rate of advancement in the Alderaanian navy?
Not sure if this was finally answered elsewhere - still catching up - but I believe it's been stated in one of the assorted sources that the rank of "Captain" is more of a left-over honourary for Cpt. Antilles. He was a Captain with the navy but his role of captain of the Tantive IV isn't in conjunction with the Alderaanian military. The Tantive IV is the Organa's personal diplomatic vessel and Cpt. Antilles is an old friend of Bail's and one of the few people Bail entrusts with the secrecy required down the road.
Rokk_Krinn
05/20/2005, 20:24
This could also be a strong conjecture that Palpatine did indeed create Anakin.
This theory was essentially voiced and confirmed by George Lucas in an interview in last week's "Entertainment Weekly". Some interesting things in there, including some comments that make me wonder if George has a sister and a rather creepy relationship with her. :)
And now... because nobody asked for it, but I am going to post it anyway:
Here is Kevin Smith's Review of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith that he posted over at the ViewAskewniverse:
"SITH" SPOILERS
You've been warned...
- "Revenge of the Sith" is, quite simply, ####ing awesome. This is the "Star Wars" prequel the haters have been #####ing for since "Menace" came out, and if they don't cop to that when they finally see it, they're lying. As dark as "Empire" was, this movie goes a thousand times darker - from the triggering of Order 66 (which has all the Shock Troopers turning on the Jedi Knights they've been fighting beside throughout the Clone Wars and gunning them down), to the jaw-dropping Anakin/Obi Wan fight on Mustafar (where - after cutting his legs and arm off, Ben leaves Skywalker burning alive on the shores of a lava river, with Anakin spitting venomous sentiments at his departing mentor), this flick is so satisfyingly tragic, you'll think you're watching "Othello" or "Hamlet".
I saw a gorgeous digitally projected version of the flick, and lemme tell ya': this is a beautiful looking film. The opening space battle sequence is the best in any of the six "Star Wars" movies. Grievous and Kenobi's lightsaber duel is bad-###, with Grievous rocking four sabers. The Clone Wars end rather early in the flick (about the halfway point), leaving the rest of the film to concentrate on Anakin's turn to the Dark Side, and the resulting slaughter of the Jedi.
Perfect example of how dark #### gets: remember the Younglings - the kid Jedis in training from "Clones"? As a result of Order 66, when Anakin invades the Jedi Temple with an army of Clone Troopers, he enters the Council room to find a gaggle of said younglings hiding behind the seats. They see Anakin and emerge, asking "What should we do, Master Anakin?" The query's met with a stone-cold Anakin firing up his lightsaber. The next time you see the kids, Yoda's sifting through their corpses on the floor.
Yes, it's just that dark - and rightfully so. This is the birth of Darth Vader we're talking about. The only comic moments in the flick are given to R2D2, and while good, they're all pretty few and far between; the order of the day is dark, dark, dark.
Ian McDiarmid and Ewan McGregor steal the show, but Hayden Christensen silences any naysayers who wrote him off as too whiney in "Clones". This is the flick that feels closest to Episodes 4, 5, and 6, because - for the first time since "Return of the Jedi" - there is a clear villain. And for all the shadow-play Palpatine has been upto in the last two flicks, his treachery is about as subtle as John Williams' score in "Sith." Whether he's slowly drawing Anakin toward the Dark Side during an opera/performance art piece with his promise of the Sith's power of life over death, or he's engaged in a balls-to-the-wall lightsaber duel in the Senate with Yoda, his "Little, green friend" (his words, not mine - which I kinda dug, because, interestingly, I think it's the first time anyone's acknowledged that Yoda is green in any of the "Star Wars" flicks), this is the Emperor's movie.
The last fifteen minutes dovetail nicely into Episode 4 (or just plain "Star Wars" for you non-geeks), and the movie is full of link-up moments as well.
- At flick's end, Threepio and Artoo are given to Captain Antilles (with the caveat that the Protocol's memory be wiped).
- The twins, natch, are split up. Leia heads to Alderann with Bail Organa, and Obi Wan hands Luke over to Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru (indeed, the closing shot is Owen holding Luke while looking out over the setting suns of Tatooine - mimicking the shot of the adult Luke doing the same in "Star Wars", complete with callback cue from Williams).
- After he succumbs to the Dark Side, Anakin tries to convince Padme that he can overthrow Palpatine, and together, he and Padme can rule the galaxy as husband and wife.
- Vader and the Emperor stand beside a younger Grand Moff Tarkin on the bridge of a Star Destroyer, overlooking the earliest construction stage of the Death Star.
- Yoda telling Obi Wan that, as he heads to Tatooine to hand over Luke and go into exile, that he should spend his time learning to commune with those who've crossed over to the next stage of life, as Yoda maintains he's been doing with Qui Gon (and Ben will later do with both Luke and Yoda, in "Empire" and "Jedi").
- And, hands-down, the best link-up to "Star Wars" moment that I enjoyed the most: Bail Organa and Yoda stepping into the hallway of the Rebel Blockade Runner that opened "Star Wars". Unlike all the high-tech CGI wizardry of the rest of the prequel Trilogy, this is a low-tech looking set, right out of circa '77, and for some reason, it really captured my imagination. I mean, this is the same exact hallway in which we got our first look at Vader, oh so many years ago, and I appreciated the hell out of Mr. Lucas including it - because it really felt like a nod to the hardcores.
Look, this is a movie I was genetically predisposed to love. I remember being eight years old, and reading in "Starlog" that Darth Vader became the half-man/half-machine he was following a duel with Ben Kenobi that climaxed with Vader falling into molten lava. Now, twenty six years later, I finally got to see that long-promised battled - and it lived up to any expectation I still held. I was sad to see the flick end, but happy to know it's not the end of the "Star Wars" universe entirely (I've read stuff about a TV show...).
"Sith" doesn't happen; "Sith" rules.
Darth Sabre
05/21/2005, 21:37
I definitely agree with you.
But, I was referring more to the fact that Yoda called it quits right then and there. He apparently had no future plans to go back and infiltrate Palpatine's "lair" and challenge him again.
It was basically: "My jabronie, green bum just got handed to me it did. Exile myself I will. So long and for all the fish- thanks!"
My Wife agrees with your assessment of Yoda's departure. However:
Well for one, the entire Galaxy has been turned against the Jedi. While he is a powerful Jedi, not even he could fight the kind of continued pursuit they would encounter for long.
Also, Yoda has precognitive abilities, and it is possible that while he is depressed with his defeat, he knows that there is hope in the future. At this point, his role changes in the face of coming events.
doctorfate77
05/21/2005, 22:21
I don't know if anyone has talked about this yet. Just something interesting that I just read....
BALANCE IN THE FORCE: The Jedi Order as as much to blame for the imbalance in the force as the Sith. Anakin returned balance to the force by destroying the Jedi Order and destroying the Sith, resetting the force back to "zero" where the living embodiment of BALANCE was his son, Luke. Luke has attachments. He has loved ones. He had parental figures whom he stayed with most of his young life. He is free from Jedi Order rules, red tape, and beurocracy. He's not living like a monk. He began training as an adult. ALL of these things make Luke a more balanced person. The Jedi Order was WRONG in the way they dealt with force-senstivity because of their dogma and rules.
Meanwhile, the Sith were wrong, too. They were selfish and power-mad.
Anakin had to destroy BOTH the Sith and the Jedi Order (not the Jedi, but the Jedi Order itself) in order to return balance to the force. All of the rules and history and rivalry had to go.
The problem was that both sides dealt in moral absolutes and extremes. The force is meant to be a natural thing, without such moral absolutes or religious orders claiming ownership over it. There is no "one true" path to the force. Luke is proof of that.
Luke IS the balance of the force. He is a whole, complete person with the force as his ally. He is not like the Jedi of the Order, and just because he didn't follow the "Jedi Order Code" doesn't mean he fell to the dark side, either. He's right there in the middle, where the force should be.
Another view of the prophecy is that by killing all but two of the Jedi, Anakin brough balance purely in terms of numbers - 2 Jedi, 2 Sith
just got back from seeing it.
not dissapointed, only have a few minor complaints.
mostly with the emperor's over-acting, and his make-up.
am i the only person who doesn't think that yoda lost his fight with the emperor?
seemed like, at worst a draw.
not sure why he just quit like that, kinda bothers me.
Darth Sabre
05/21/2005, 22:57
My complaint, is who the hell erased Kamino from the Jedi archives?
Nothing significant, but I still would've liked to have known.
I also don't think that Yoda lost to the Emperor, and that the Emperor "gave" up against Mace, to help Anakin's seduction along.
Darth Sabre
05/21/2005, 22:59
I don't know if anyone has talked about this yet. Just something interesting that I just read....
I've heard both of those theories before. My thoughts are more in line with the first reason.
Rokk_Krinn
05/21/2005, 23:19
just got back from seeing it.
not dissapointed, only have a few minor complaints.
mostly with the emperor's over-acting, and his make-up.
am i the only person who doesn't think that yoda lost his fight with the emperor?
seemed like, at worst a draw.
not sure why he just quit like that, kinda bothers me.
Nah, far as I'm concerned even though Yoda walked from the battle he was essentially winning the combat. He just kept coming and the Emperor was in "flight" mode. Dumb luck turned things in Palpatine's favour or I believe Yoda would've skewered the Sith Lord there, except for one thing (and the thing connected with why Yoda walked)...
...Yoda - according to the novelization - realized that the Jedi had screwed up - they had become too dogmatic and not adaptable like the Sith. The Sith had learned to grow - change - and in some ways that's more in tune with the Force than the "unbendable nature" the Jedi Council had adapted. Yoda decided that even if he beat Palpatine it would not bring about the proper balance or allow the Jedi to regrow stronger than previously...they would just repeat the same errors. He also admitted to himself that if he was subsequently killed by troopers or the zillion or so citizens fanatically loyal to Palpatine (remember at that point Palpatine was loved by the populace - by the time of RotJ things had changed but when Yoda fought the Sith Lord he would've come across as an assassin) that those changes he was considering would die with him. In other words, Yoda decided he could win the battle but that the war would have to be won further down the road - and that to win the battle then would just turn people against any future hope for the Jedi - so he decided to "walk".
St-Dumas
05/22/2005, 00:14
I walked out saying to my friends:
"And THAT'S why jedis aren't allowed to love."
I definately think that it makes up for Epidoes I and II. My only complaint was General Grievous. He was ubeliveably cool with the 4 sabres, but in the Clone Wars toon, he was relentless in achieving his target, always got pushed back by the jedis but that never stopped him. In the movie, however, Grievous was more cowardice; depending more on the terrain and his backup soldiers then his own abilities. I really don't like that.
Prof. Aragorn
05/22/2005, 01:33
The movie was pretty good. The acting was horrendous save for Chris Lee, Ewan McGregor, Ian McDiarmond occasionally, and on a good day Jimmy Smits.
As to Mace vs. Sidious, I believe Mace would have owned him in the end, only because Sidious wouldn't last long going all out and Jedis are a lot more consistent as opposed to Sith (we're talking a figure like Hercules vs. Firelord, while Firelord's first 3 clicks are incredibly damaging, he's extremely weak late dial whereas Hercules keeps going, and going, and going).
Personally, I feel Lucas went about the wrong way in doing the prequels, but he at least made up for it with this one-it also sort of explains why Palps and Yoda don't have lightsabres.
It is just me, or did anyone else find it odd how Peter Cushing was in A New Hope while Chris Lee was in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith? A little ironic, don't you think.
Probably the main problem I have with this film is the inconsitancy with the Clone Wars Series and this movie. In Clone Wars, Grievous is owning 5 Jedi Masters at once needing only to use 2-3 lightsabres but in the movie he needs 4 just to take on Obi Wan. I can see Mace Windu hurting him in the end, but jeez, he shouldn't be that weak with a dent in his torso plate.
Stepper79
05/22/2005, 09:17
This is a cool site but it brings togther to many scary images for me, if you play long enough you'll see what I mean
http://sithsense.com/flash.htm (http://sithsense.com/)
This is a cool site but it brings togther to many scary images for me, if you play long enough you'll see what I mean
http://sithsense.com/flash.htm (http://sithsense.com/)
PFFT!!!!
I beat him twice.
Darth Sabre
05/22/2005, 17:18
I still think that the lightining did affect palpy.... I mean look at him now, he's all ... wrinkly..... cause the "force lightning" does affect him, heck Yoda knock him across the room with it. I damit he was waiting for Anakin to make his move, but I do think it [the force lightning] caused him some pain....
On another web site, (where the person who runs it appears to be close enough to George Lucas to be able to reveal things here and there-long before the movie's release) it is revealed that Palpatine's transformation is a direct result of the intensity at which he unleashed his Force lightning. I had mentioned this to my wife as we left the theatre the first time that we saw it,that that was my suspicion, since it is a known fact that using Dark Side powers can alter a Dark Jedi's physical appearance. Essentially Palpy overloaded himself, to such a degree that it deformed him. Obviously he didn't seem to mind the fact that he now looked like foreskin too mcuh. :cheeky:
Also, on the same web site, GL is allegedly on record as saying that Grevious' cough is a direct result of a diesease that is slowly killing him, and not a result of his altercation with Mace in Clone Wars.
Stepper79
05/22/2005, 23:07
ro-gan - I got him to 30 some questions twice where they finally ask you, but what scares me is the Burger King and Vader on screen toghter talk about evil.
I have a continuity question for you as well ro-gan or anyone else you just seem to know the answers.
Has there every been an offical comment as to where "Splinter of the Minds Eye" fits. I know as part of the deal for Alan Dean Foster to write the novelization of SW:ANH he was allowed to write a Star Wars book and it was out before they knew that they were going to do Empire and it really throws a wrench in the story line. Just curious
Diablo4485
05/22/2005, 23:50
For anyone who also happens to be a DBZ fan, did anyone else see a resemblence between Yoda's Kashyyyk escape pod and Vegeta's lander?
Finally saw it yesturday.
"Anakin, I loved you like a brother. That's why I'll just stand here & watch you burn alive instead of taking a mercy shot."
Prof. Aragorn
05/23/2005, 10:00
Finally saw it yesturday.
"Anakin, I loved you like a brother. That's why I'll just stand here & watch you burn alive instead of taking a mercy shot."
By all rights, Anakin should have died the instant he breathed any of those volcanic gases. The gases should have incinerated his lungs instantly.
Stepper79
05/23/2005, 10:07
ahhh but you don't know the Power of the Dark Side, I am sure that Ankin's HATE fueled him to survive, as to why he let him burn think about this the only Family Obi-wan has ever had was just slaughtered by him even the younglings, so I think even Obi-Wan believes that in some payback
FoxInStocks
05/23/2005, 10:09
Plus, you know, it's science fantasy. If you can buy laser swords, flying robots, and magic powers, you should be able to handle silly things like a planets atmosphere or gasses. :cheeky:
<<Obi-Wan believes that in some payback>>
Do Jedi believe in "payback?"
Darth Sabre
05/23/2005, 10:34
Remember, even Anakin knew that Jedi don't kill. He wouldn't have killed Dooku, had Palpatine not convinced him to. It's likely he would not have intefered with Mace and Palpatine, if Palpatine had convinced him that by sparing him, he could save Padme. Both times, he struggled with his actions.
Is it then unreasonable for Obi-Wan to adhere to the Jedi code?
Stepper79
05/23/2005, 10:48
maybe Payback was the wrong word, Karma or Karmic(sp) Justice, understand that by this point Yoda and Obi-Wan must have realized that the Jedi Code had failed them and the strict adherance to this dogma had put them in to thier current situation. In the End thou if Obi-Wan had been merciful then their would be no Vader (in the suit) and then where would we be ;)
Ghost_Rider_92
05/23/2005, 10:52
Also, maybe there is a law in the Jedi code that they may not perform mercy killings or anything similar to killing someone who is unarmed..literally.
FoxInStocks
05/23/2005, 11:07
I tend to think more along those lines. That's why Anakin mentioned to Mace that killing Palpatine was against the code. When Anakin is lying there, he's defeated. That's also why I think Obi-Wan was so grieved at leaving him there to, presumably, die that way.
Darth Sabre
05/23/2005, 11:20
maybe Payback was the wrong word, Karma or Karmic(sp) Justice, understand that by this point Yoda and Obi-Wan must have realized that the Jedi Code had failed them and the strict adherance to this dogma had put them in to thier current situation. In the End thou if Obi-Wan had been merciful then their would be no Vader (in the suit) and then where would we be ;)
Of course, my thinking was:
"For the love of Pete, Force push the poor b#####d into the lava."
:p
Prof. Aragorn
05/23/2005, 11:32
I tend to think more along those lines. That's why Anakin mentioned to Mace that killing Palpatine was against the code. When Anakin is lying there, he's defeated. That's also why I think Obi-Wan was so grieved at leaving him there to, presumably, die that way.
But murdering Geonesian warriors who's territory you've invaded is perfectly fine.
Sorry, just saw Episode II on Fox last night . . . having nightmares . . .
thedon99
05/23/2005, 15:33
Nah, far as I'm concerned even though Yoda walked from the battle he was essentially winning the combat. He just kept coming and the Emperor was in "flight" mode. Dumb luck turned things in Palpatine's favour or I believe Yoda would've skewered the Sith Lord there, except for one thing (and the thing connected with why Yoda walked)...
...Yoda - according to the novelization - realized that the Jedi had screwed up - they had become too dogmatic and not adaptable like the Sith. The Sith had learned to grow - change - and in some ways that's more in tune with the Force than the "unbendable nature" the Jedi Council had adapted. Yoda decided that even if he beat Palpatine it would not bring about the proper balance or allow the Jedi to regrow stronger than previously...they would just repeat the same errors. He also admitted to himself that if he was subsequently killed by troopers or the zillion or so citizens fanatically loyal to Palpatine (remember at that point Palpatine was loved by the populace - by the time of RotJ things had changed but when Yoda fought the Sith Lord he would've come across as an assassin) that those changes he was considering would die with him. In other words, Yoda decided he could win the battle but that the war would have to be won further down the road - and that to win the battle then would just turn people against any future hope for the Jedi - so he decided to "walk".
How was Yoda winning the combat? He had already taken a charge of force lightning that hurt him, as it took him a little while to get up. Palpatine could've decapitated him with his lightsaber before he even got up. The Emperor was toying with him, which is why he didn't end it there. The Emperor was in flight mode? He was hurling Senate Pods three at a time. Yoda is the one in flight mode. He ran after falling a good fifty feet and hurting himself again. Good fight, Yoda lost. He ran because he knew he couldn't beat him. Which is why he says he failed. Oh, well, opinions vary, and the debate will continue forever, which is a good thing.
Does anyone remeber the scene where Palpatine and Mace are dueling before the window gets cut out, and he has Mace caught with his arms straight out? Mace has his lightsaber straight out to his side, and Palpatine's lightsaber is practically against his chest. Mace was defenseless at that point, which proves Palaptine was waiting for Anakin. Palpatine could've impaled him right then, just like Agen Kolar. If anyone questions this, I have a ROTS calendar which has a still shot of this exact moment. It shows without a doubt Plapatine was just biding his time and needed Mace Windu alive to finally turn Anakin completely.
Darth Sabre
05/23/2005, 15:38
Palpatine did try to flee against Yoda, which is wy Yoda cut him off at the door, and made a statement, something to the effect of:
(translated and paraphrased from Yoda speak) If you have so much faith in your new apprentice, then why run?
It is at that point that, the Emperor responds by saying, that he will become more powerful than either of them.
But he did try to run from Yoda.
Darth Sabre
05/23/2005, 15:40
As far as the Mace fight, you are correct. He was biding his time. However, that's not to say that Mace could not have defeated him.
Time to plug one of my favorite Star Wars related items:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000I7VZ/qid=1116614523/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl15/002-6616705-2193606?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
Give a listen to the Imperial March in particular.
I agree. I traded IM a copy for a Brother Blood. Best trade I ever made!
thedon99
05/23/2005, 15:55
Palpatine did try to flee against Yoda, which is wy Yoda cut him off at the door, and made a statement, something to the effect of:
(translated and paraphrased from Yoda speak) If you have so much faith in your new apprentice, then why run?
It is at that point that, the Emperor responds by saying, that he will become more powerful than either of them.
But he did try to run from Yoda.
He tried to leave against Yoda. He wasn't running because he was scared, he had already sensed Vader was in trouble. After Yoda falls, Sids says that. Yoda actually says "If so powerful, why leave?" Yoda gets props from me for being a bad ###. No disrespect towards him. Palpatine was waiting on Mace and the other Jedi, and he was waiting on Yoda. After the initial burst of force lightning that ssent Yoda against the wall, his assistant walks out. No guards, except those two Yoda handled with ease. His assistant calmy walks out, not running to get help. Sidious wanted that duel, just like he wanted Mace and the others to come and arrest him. All part of the plan. Sids could've killed Yoda immediately, when he was helpless immediately following the force lightning. But, he's too #### arrogant, and it almost cost him. That's the problem, he doesn't know when to shut up, he's too overconfident. They were both talking some #### to each other.
Mace can't beat Sidious. Palpatine has him beat, like I stated on the post before. He could've cut him down right then and there. Lucas made sure it was obvious Plapatine has Mace defenseless when his arms are outstretched and Palpatine's lightsaber is against his chest. If he had killed him then, Anakin would not have thought the Jedi were trying to overthrow the Republic, and Mace would not have looked like the aggressor. He probaly would not have turned right then if Palaptine did play the situation the way he did.
thedon99
05/23/2005, 15:59
However, I will say this. Mace would not have fallen as quick as the other three, even if Sidious was going all out. Mace is way too powerful for that. He would have given him a good fight, but the other three Jedi Masters, Saesee Tiin, Kit Fisto, and Agen Kolar are all very powerful, and they got cut down in seconds. Mace was beat, and would've died right then, but Anakin wasn't there yet, so Sidious didn't finish him. I'll also say this. I don't think Sidious quite expected Mace to deflect the lightning as easily as he did. He was suprised by that, and it showed. Mace is no slouch, and I like his character a lot. But, Mace is not powerful enough to take the most powerful Sith of all time.
Diablo4485
05/23/2005, 17:09
Hmm, lot of subjects to touch on...
Sidious vs. Yoda: I believe that Yoda very well could have defeated Sidious, but in order to do so he would have to resort to tapping into the Dark Side. He foresaw this during the fight, and knowing that if he were to stoop to Sidious's level he might not have been able to come back ("Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.") he decided to run. Yoda knew that he would be an even bigger threat to everyone if he were to turn, so instead he chose to withdraw and stay on the Light Side.
Windu vs. Sidious: Same as above, except in this case I think that Windu did actually become tainted by the Dark Side during the duel. Just take a look at him while he's fighting and listen to how he suddenly goes from wanting to arrest Palpatine to wanting to kill him. I hate to say it, but up until he chopped of Windu's hand Anakin was the voice of reason in that little exchange. Wrong as it might seem, the Jedi thing to do in that situation would be to take Palpatine into custody to stand trial.
Obi-Wan vs. Anakin: Why did Obi-Wan leave Anakin a stump instead of finishing him off? Well, it was only out of self defense that he rendered Anakin to that state anyway. He begged Anakin not to continue, knowing his former Padawan well enough to know exactly how he'd approach him and how to cut him down. He did what he had to do. He knew that he couldn't kill him because it wouldn't be the Jedi thing to do, but I think the reason he left Anakin there was because he figured he was beyond help, Force-wise or health-wise. Obi-Wan left him for dead, but in some way he felt like he didn't really kill him because he wasn't the one to deal the finishing blow (anime fans, think along the lines of Vash in Trigun).
GroovyBoy
05/23/2005, 17:21
Anakin & Padme's scenes were terribly written. I don't think that great actors could have pulled off the lines Lucas forced on them.
I just feel sorry for Lucas' wife, if that's the kinda carp she has to listen to when he feels all romantic.
My favorite scene was when Haydin (no, not Anakin) gets set on fire...
bootkneelee
05/23/2005, 17:25
Obi-Wan vs. Anakin: Why did Obi-Wan leave Anakin a stump instead of finishing him off? Well, it was only out of self defense that he rendered Anakin to that state anyway. He begged Anakin not to continue, knowing his former Padawan well enough to know exactly how he'd approach him and how to cut him down. He did what he had to do. He knew that he couldn't kill him because it wouldn't be the Jedi thing to do, but I think the reason he left Anakin there was because he figured he was beyond help, Force-wise or health-wise. Obi-Wan left him for dead, but in some way he felt like he didn't really kill him because he wasn't the one to deal the finishing blow (anime fans, think along the lines of Vash in Trigun).[/QUOTE]
Funny, had Obi Wan actually killed Anakin, anakin would never be able to bring "balance" to the force...
i feel that Obi Wan bated Anakin into leaping and then getting sliced and diced, he knew that Anakin was a better Light Saber Fighter and his main weakness was his pride, so telling him there's no way you can beat me, would only maka Anakin try to do it.... SUCKA!!!!
GroovyBoy
05/23/2005, 17:44
Don't cry Thugit. Yoda can't get the job done, Luke can't get the job done, Daddy saves him by snatching up Darth Sidious from behind, and still gets killed by the force lightning. It's a little different when it's one Sith, and 10,000 Jedi. After Yoda loses, he didn't want anymore which is why he ran.
How come when Anakin cuts off Mace's arm, it's due to Palpatine's cleverness, but Luke gets no props for exploiting his father's heartstrings in RotJ? Yeah... thought so...
bootkneelee
05/23/2005, 17:49
How come when Anakin cuts off Mace's arm, it's due to Palpatine's cleverness, but Luke gets no props for exploiting his father's heartstrings in RotJ? Yeah... thought so...
Palpatine is a master chess man, who did make a fatal falw, I mean you are basically wanting Luke to kill his dad so he can replace his dad, and then when he dosen't he decides to kill him not thinking that Dart Vader will be a little p-o'dthat he wanted him killed, then again Vader wanted to kill Palpy and have he and his son rule the universe....those Siths are so darn greedy for power!
Also, I just watched the end of 6 yesterday, why didn't Luke just use the force to put his dad on the ship????? Luke is a chump!
Darth Sabre
05/23/2005, 17:56
Also, I just watched the end of 6 yesterday, why didn't Luke just use the force to put his dad on the ship????? Luke is a chump!
Dude, he could'nt even keep Yoda and some rocks up. :cheeky:
hail_eris
05/23/2005, 18:00
Also, I just watched the end of 6 yesterday, why didn't Luke just use the force to put his dad on the ship????? Luke is a chump!
I posted a link a few pages back that discusses Vader's medical condition in remarkable detail. The gist of it is that the suit's life support systems were destroyed beyond repair in the Emperor's Force lightning attack. Pretty much his only hope after that would have been to make it to his personal chamber on the Executor (the ship that, minutes before, triggered a beautifully pre-digital pyro effect when it crashed into the Death Star). And he must have done *something* to get papa Vader onto the transport - he gives him that Viking funeral on Endor, after all...
doctorfate77
05/24/2005, 00:31
Here's a really awesome version of the SW Theme...
http://xthost.info/AdamStrange77/Star%20Wars%20Theme%20-%20Swingle%20Singers.mp3
Munchoboy
05/24/2005, 10:19
one thing I thought was done in good taste...
the tech.
The technology in the first two movies were SO amazing that I began to wonder how the hell we went from that to what we had in episode IV. In this movie they dumbed down the tech a lot... a LOT. Instead of sleek chrome starships that could slip through atoms, we have x-wing and tie fighter prototypes and predecessors. Instead of slick plane glass with light up touch screen controls, we are downgraded to buttons and knobs. It kind of helped the transition from III to IV in my opinion.
I thought it was pretty cool how, in the course of a civilization gearing up for war, that starships went from consumer friendly tech and visually pleasing lines to a more militant and utilitarian approach to design in the later, more conflict-driven, universe of Ep 4-6.
That's just my $0.02 of course though.
I just found this. Its pretty funny.
http://www.storewars.org/flash/index.html
Munchoboy
05/24/2005, 10:59
yup, travel to the far corner's of the galaxy where every one is white and speaks english......... [I hope they noted my sarcasm]
Preach on my brother; everyone knows that Whitey McRepublic would consign all our sorry colored butts to the Outer Rim without breaking a stride.
At least *one* BA Jedi Master was a black human who didn't speak with an English accent.
I want to confirm this with anyone who saw the movie more then once- I thought I saw Lucas when Anakin runs into Palp's booth at the opera. Look closely at the 2 guys standing near the doorway. Lucas is the one on the right.
<sorry if this was posted earlier>
tACL
Darth Sabre
05/24/2005, 12:52
Yeah he was one of the guys standing on the balcony. His son is the Jedi kid that the Clones gun down in front of Bail. And his daughter is in the crowd that gathers, when the Senator returns from being Grevious' captive.
thedon99
05/24/2005, 12:56
How come when Anakin cuts off Mace's arm, it's due to Palpatine's cleverness, but Luke gets no props for exploiting his father's heartstrings in RotJ? Yeah... thought so...
How about because it's completely different. Turning Anakin has been part of Palpatine's plan for years. This is the final link he needs to turn Anakin.
Luke on the other hand, actually wants his father to save him because he is about to die. Palpatine was never in danger as he foresaw Anakin "saving" him. Luke wanted his father to turn to the light side and really cared about him, Palpatine just wanted Anakin to be his slave. That's why Luke doesn't get props-he was genuinely whining, Palpatine was taking advantage of Mace's aggression and putting into effect a plan he'd been working for a very long time.
ro-gan - I got him to 30 some questions twice where they finally ask you, but what scares me is the Burger King and Vader on screen toghter talk about evil.
I have a continuity question for you as well ro-gan or anyone else you just seem to know the answers.
Has there every been an offical comment as to where "Splinter of the Minds Eye" fits. I know as part of the deal for Alan Dean Foster to write the novelization of SW:ANH he was allowed to write a Star Wars book and it was out before they knew that they were going to do Empire and it really throws a wrench in the story line. Just curious
Here is your answer:
http://www.darkhorse.com/zones/starwars/timeline.php
Diablo4485
05/24/2005, 14:50
Ah, thank you. This is very handy. I've got a couple friends that have been arguing constantly over whether or not KOTOR is considered canon or not, hopefully this'll show them.
Diablo4485
05/24/2005, 14:51
Ah, thank you. This is very handy. I've got a couple friends that have been arguing constantly over whether or not KOTOR is considered canon, hopefully this'll show them.
Gah, I hate no editing...
Stepper79
05/24/2005, 14:55
Thanks ro_gan
Froggore
05/24/2005, 15:19
hey i just wanted to put a link here to this excellent article i just read on theforce.net. it is a speculative article that talks about midi-chlorians and the nature of the force. it also gives a really good insights on the balancing of the force and the "force-ghosts" issues. check it out
Midi-Chlorians: Physiology, Physics, and the Force (http://theforce.net/midichlorians/index.asp)
hey i just wanted to put a link here to this excellent article i just read on theforce.net. it is a speculative article that talks about midi-chlorians and the nature of the force. it also gives a really good insights on the balancing of the force and the "force-ghosts" issues. check it out
Midi-Chlorians: Physiology, Physics, and the Force (http://theforce.net/midichlorians/index.asp)
That was a good article. A bit dated now, but still thought-provoking.
doctorfate77
05/27/2005, 00:44
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/beds/bucks/herts/4575291.stm
Zatara55
05/29/2005, 09:49
In Empire, didn't Vader tell Luke that the Emporer forsaw Luke being the downfall or killing the Emporer? And that's why Vader tries to convince Luke to join him?
And why didn't they change Luke's last name to Lars? At some point you know he's going to come to the attention of the bad guys, probably before he's prepared. I don't think they hid him as well as they hid Leia.
And wouldn't it make sense for Vader/Sidious to track down and finish Yoda/Obi-Wan off. I hope they address this in a book or other media later on.
50centfan
05/29/2005, 16:47
Emperor told Vader he kill Padme and so he didn't know he had kids until Empire Strikes Back, they had complete control they didn't need to kill Yoda or Obi Wan they would die eventually as they did.......
And wouldn't it make sense for Vader/Sidious to track down and finish Yoda/Obi-Wan off. I hope they address this in a book or other media later on.
I kinda thought that for a while, too.
Consider this, though: Obi-Wan had completely bested Anakin and Lucas mentions in A New Hope that Vader wasn't as powerful after he was dismembered and I think the Emperor knew it. Why send his apprentice after the one guy who not only beat him, but beat him badly.....plus, Yoda had given the Emperor all he could stand--there was no reason to go looking for trouble from those 2.
If the 2 guys in the Universe who can stop you go into hiding, I say you let sleeping dogs lie.
machineman
05/30/2005, 03:55
[QUOTE=Ignatz_Mouse]QUOTE ro_gan
Many Jedi do indeed escape the original Order 66. But, sadly, Darth Vader spends the next 20 years hunting down and terminating them all. The only Jedi that lived at the beginning of Episode IV: ANH are:
Yoda
Luke
Leia
Obi-Wan
Mara Jade
C'baoth
And a few more that were revealed in the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually there was also a whole boat-load of them(jedi), who had gone off on an outer-rim mission(or some such remote location) on a project "outward bound" or something, who "missed" the jedi purge. The ship crashed on Dathomir, hence giving rise to the force-witches there. Can't remember which book that's in, but it's where Luke is searching for a jedi-holycron or his mother or something.
thedon99
05/30/2005, 12:48
[QUOTE=Ignatz_Mouse]QUOTE ro_gan
Many Jedi do indeed escape the original Order 66. But, sadly, Darth Vader spends the next 20 years hunting down and terminating them all. The only Jedi that lived at the beginning of Episode IV: ANH are:
Yoda
Luke
Leia
Obi-Wan
Mara Jade
C'baoth
And a few more that were revealed in the Star Wars comics from Dark Horse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually there was also a whole boat-load of them(jedi), who had gone off on an outer-rim mission(or some such remote location) on a project "outward bound" or something, who "missed" the jedi purge. The ship crashed on Dathomir, hence giving rise to the force-witches there. Can't remember which book that's in, but it's where Luke is searching for a jedi-holycron or his mother or something.
The project you are referring to, all of the Jedi died on that mission. C'baoth was a memeber of that mission. He died as well, and the character in the Timothy Zahn novels is actually a clone of Jorus C'baoth.
I honestly think the Emperor or vader could feel Yoda, as he kills a Dark Jedi on Dagobah, cancelling out his light side of the Force. When Luke confronts his test in the cave of Dagobah, the dark side he feels is the remnants of that Dark Jedi. So, they couldn't find Yoda.
thedon99
05/30/2005, 12:48
Meant to say could not feel Yoda.
Gentlegamer
05/30/2005, 12:54
I kinda thought that for a while, too.
Consider this, though: Obi-Wan had completely bested Anakin and Lucas mentions in A New Hope that Vader wasn't as powerful after he was dismembered and I think the Emperor knew it. Why send his apprentice after the one guy who not only beat him, but beat him badly.....plus, Yoda had given the Emperor all he could stand--there was no reason to go looking for trouble from those 2.
If the 2 guys in the Universe who can stop you go into hiding, I say you let sleeping dogs lie.This is a good way to look at it. One thing though, neither Palpatine nor Vader gave any indication that they knew that Yoda still lived. Vader attributes all of Luke's prowess to "Obi-Wan has taught you well."
thedon99
05/30/2005, 13:01
This is a good way to look at it. One thing though, neither Palpatine nor Vader gave any indication that they knew that Yoda still lived. Vader attributes all of Luke's prowess to "Obi-Wan has taught you well."
Which is why they had no clue about Yoda, by killing the Dark Jedi on Dagobah, they cancelled each other out, and they couldn't feel Yoda. Since Yoda runs from Darth Sidious, it doesn't make much sense that he would be scared to hunt him down.
Obi-Wan, on the other hand, who knows? Vader becomes the second most powerful Sith Lord of all time, I doubt he was scared of Obi-Wan. Oni-Wan used intelligence to beat him, exposing his weaknesses. Anakin was really far more powerful than Obi-Wan. Obi-Wan even tells him that right before he leaves to hunt down Grievous.
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