SPOILERS!!! Anyone else think Star Wars was carptacular?

[yosoygav123]

I know, i know, I'm a moaner and a whiner. I'm never happy with anything ... why am I so negative? But, all that aside... MHO is that Episode III, while certainly better than I or II, which isn't saying much, was overall lack luster and an anticlimactic ending to the Star Wars saga. (now that's a run-on sentence!)

Now, where shall I begin my trite, trivial, and inconsequential complaining? First... the cheesy dialogue. Some of it was so bad that the conversations between characters lacked any kind of logical flow. This poor dialogue in turn led to watered down performances, as it is hard for even the best actor to redeem poorly written lines. My two choices for worst lines ever were Padme: "Anakin, you're breaking my heart!" OMG, you don't actually say that! You imply it through other dialogue and throught the acting! Choice number two is Yoda: "Good relations with the Wookies I have." When he said that my wife and I just looked at each other and started laughing. In the words of Larry the Cable Guy: "I don' care who ye are, that's funny!" I'm sorry, I love Yoda, but that line made me think he was referencing some tawdry alien love triangle or something!

Next, was the numerous, repititive and redundant light saber fights. All of them were decent, but none really stood out. They all had some cool moments, but by and large it was the same old thing. They didn't raise the bar. That and some, like the Anakin/Obi-wan scene went on forever! It's like the Matrix, aftert the first one some of the fight scenes were over done to the point of being ludicrous, such as Neo fighting 500 Smiths, but at least it was different. No real difference between these fights and the ones we've seen countless times.

Then, can i just say that I'm really puzzled as to why a planet would have a thriving lava industry. Is there really that much of an interstellar demand for "liquid hot magma?" Also, why does the big platform Obi and Ani fight on melt in the lava but the tiny little droids hovering over the stuff are fine? Are they made of adamantium? I know that is nit picking, I admit it, but why couldn't it just be a lava planet? Why the lava factory?

lastly, and this is also nitpicking ... why are there no children among the Jedi but instead "younglings?" Youngling?! Come on they're not cattle or something, that just bugged me.

Well, feel free to rip me a new one ... and don't let my ironic selfdetachment, and cynicism stop you from enjoying the film

Until next time my younglings... :cool:

[Kaszael]

Well, I can certainly relate. But since my expectations were incredibly low for the movie, I was actually pleased (never have too high expectations, you can only be disappointed).

Good points : Only one mention of the mediclorians (spelling?) while it can be debated that this is one too many times, at least we're not given a festival of this oh so frustrating concept like in the first movie!

Also, Jar-Jar Binks doesn't talk! I am so thrilled that he kept his mouth shut for the.....10 seconds he's been on screen (and still, there is an actor's name in the credit section for his role...is he not CGI anymore?)

My principal problem is the carpy actor that plays Anakin....we've been proven numerous times that good looks don't make an actor (shivers at the thought of "A Knight's Tale")
His "What have I done" scene in Palpatine's chamber when he slays Windu is just hillarious. I can picture from here George Lucas' face, after 287 takes of this scene, saying "Ah F*ck it! We'll just take this one, NEXT SCENE!"

I do like the fact that he performed his "crisis of breath" move though. Classics never die. And we still get to see Natalie Portman in somewhat revealing garments (don't get your hopes up too high though).

Yeah, it was better than the first 2....still, I miss Mark Hamil.

[krusticlese]

None of the other Star Wars movies had great dialogue either, I don't know why you would have expected it here. :)


I loved the movie, but my biggest gripes were mostly due to to the fact that I had seen the Clone Wars cartoon before the movie. In the cartoon, the Jedi had some spectacular fight scenes (Mace Windu in particular) and Gen. Grevious was a crazy bladesman. In the movie, it seemed that the Jedi punked out with their deaths. Kit Fisto was taken down with one sweep from Palpatine's sabre...Lame!

Also, in the span from episode #25 of Clone Wars and the beginning of Ep III (roughly 2 minutes of elapsed time), When in the hell did Grevious get that bad cough? He went toe to toe with as many as 5 Jedi at a time in the cartoon and never even got winded.

It just seems that there were so many things that were established prior to the movie, and then were disregarded.


Other than that, I thought it rocked! You had better belive I'll be watching the new Clone Wars cartoons that bridge the gap from Episode 3 to Episode 4.

[Phantom]

I thought it was great. A few rough spots that I attribute entirely to Lucas’s own inexperiences. Mainly, the romance between Anakin and Padme, Palpatine’s make-up and overacting after his fight with Mace Windu when he wasn’t wearing the hood, and Darth Vader’s overwrought “Noooooooo!!!”

But the flip side of it was seeing Anakin and Obi-Wan. This film really came down to their struggle with each other, and they had me totally sold on it.

I also give credit to Lucas for making Anakin’s motivations sympathetic (refusal to see his wife die), but also making him enough of a villain that you could hate him (when he finds the younglings in the Jedi Council chambers).

And the entire “Order 66” sequence was very well done.

It was a movie that cribbed heavily from Shakespeare's "MacBeth." And since it's a formula that we don't see very often in today's media, it worked.

[JacinB]

Does JarJar not die? I thought that everyone was looking forward to Lucas killing him.

[yosoygav123]

No, Jar Jar does not die, sadly! He is however, mercifully silent during his cameo.

[thugit]

I also give credit to Lucas for making Anakin’s motivations sympathetic (refusal to see his wife die), but also making him enough of a villain that you could hate him (when he finds the younglings in the Jedi Council chambers).



Great point. The whole time I was thinking, "Well, I'd do the same thing....and hate myself for it."

[Dark Flash2099]

Hey, at least think of it this way; At least it wasn't worse than Manos: Hands of Fate. No movie should ever be that bad.

[JacinB]

No, Jar Jar does not die, sadly! He is however, mercifully silent during his cameo.
I bet history is re-written yet again so that he becomes the Jedi Master that Obi-Wan refers to (you know, instead of Yoda) that he's sending Luke to train with.

No, seriously. Hear me out. Here's how Lucas will do it.

First, JarJar isn't a Jedi at the end of the first two movies. However, he has been displaying latent Jedi powers all along.

So, in an effort to restore the Jedi after Episode III, Yoda decides that he has no choice except to train JarJar. Surprisingly, JarJar quickly becomes the most powerful Jedi there has ever been.

Then, the history is added that JarJar actually trained Obi-Wan ... who is obviously far inferior to Mr. Binks.

JarJar is added, via CGI, into all of the Dagobah scenes in all future releases of the original Star Wars movies.

It is then also revealed that it is not actually Yoda who lifts the X-Wing out of the swamp, but JarJar who is hiding underwater ... he is an amphibian, you know.

Thus, the plot hole is filled. Obi-Wan does send Luke to train with a great Jedi Master who trained him ... however, rather than Yoda (which is what created the hole), it is revealed to be JarJar Binks!

Book it. It shall be done.

[Phantom]

Great point. The whole time I was thinking, "Well, I'd do the same thing....and hate myself for it."
It’s basic writing: the best villains are the ones who think they’re doing the right thing. Dr. Doom, Magneto... they honestly feel that their actions will lead to a better world.

You want another great example of this? Go see the Serenity movie in September. ;)

[Cookiekitty]

I'll agree with the rest and say this movie was way better than I and II. But it still had Lucas' lackluster approach. Vader's scream of "Nooooooo!" at the end was idiotic; but my friend later on said "Well he was still sissy Anakin, sort of, so he still had to act that way". So I guess that kinda explains that. I would have prefered him just emoting and lean his head forwards in SILENCE, it would have been a little more moving. Or even ripping himself off the operating table and falling to his knees, again in silence. Oh well.

I thought the beginning of the movie was very entertaining with the ship battles, etc. But shortly after it just slipped back into "Lucas can't write conversations to save his life". And why won't he let the actors interpret his script? Did he not learn from Harrison Ford? My god, Harrison Ford changed almost ALL of his lines in the original movies and LOOK HOW GOOD HE WAS. Come on! The love scenes between him and Leia were not this sappy and goofy. The only actor in this movie able to pull off emotion with Lucas' script in this movie was Ewan McGregor, kudos to him. And I have seen Hayden act so much better in other movies, so I don't believe this fault is on his acting, but on his having to deal with Lucas' stale script. Some of the scenes looked as though they had shot and reshot them so much that the actors were like "just get it overwith".

And Yoda's battle with Palpatine...he gets force lightning-ed off guard at the very start. YODA??? Gets caught OFF GUARD?? Please. He walked in there knowing they were going to fight, there was no reason for him not to have been able to block that first blast. I'm not even going to go into the senate scene of him and Palpatine jumping around on the seats...

I did think it was interesting how Palpatine's face got melted by his own force lightning bouncing back from Mace Windu's lightsaber...

Anakin vs Obi-wan and getting his legs & remaining arm cut off...eww...but that works, I guess. I think I was expecting a more grandiose way of him getting horribly scarred and hurt. Like splashed by lava or some such. But having Obi-wan directly responsible for it...interesting.

Overall, better than the other two, but still had its glaring "Lucas-trocities".

[Gentlegamer]

It’s basic writing: the best villains are the ones who think they’re doing the right thing. Dr. Doom, Magneto... they honestly feel that their actions will lead to a better world.Yes, the secret to writing a good villian is that the villain doesn't know he's the villain . . . he thinks he is the good guy.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

Lex Luthor, too.


I agree with just about every criticsim I've read abotu this movie, but I still really liked it. It pretty much pushed all the buttons it was supposed to.

I was never the hugest Star Wars fan, so I didn't have huge expectations. But I am enough of a fan to get the references and like seeing some of the developments unfold. Like for instance, recginizing Organa's ship as the one that's captured at the beginning of a New Hope. Or liking seeing how Darth got so physically messed up in the first place.

[GL4Life]

Also, in the span from episode #25 of Clone Wars and the beginning of Ep III (roughly 2 minutes of elapsed time), When in the hell did Grevious get that bad cough? He went toe to toe with as many as 5 Jedi at a time in the cartoon and never even got winded.

At the end of the episode Mace Windu uses the force to crush Grevious' chest somewhat and he hobbles onto the ship. i assume thats where the cough came from.

If your gonna be upset about the cartoon and the movies not relating, check the battle on Geonosis in Episode 2, More Jedi, less droids, yet they were losing when in the cartoon Mace Windu by himself blows away hundreds of super battle droids. The cartoon was great, but it totally contradicts the movies on the amount of power Jedi have

[Ed0825]

Also, in the span from episode #25 of Clone Wars and the beginning of Ep III (roughly 2 minutes of elapsed time), When in the hell did Grevious get that bad cough? He went toe to toe with as many as 5 Jedi at a time in the cartoon and never even got winded.

Well at the end of episode #25 of Clone Wars Grevious had a brief encounter with Mace. Mace crushed his chest plate with a force grip, then Greivous made a hasty retreat back into the ship. I think it is understandable that Grevious was having difficulty breathing after that.

[clixer11]

Anakin walking into the Council chamber and activating his lightsaber has to be one of the most chilling moments ever filmed because of the unsaid implications.

Did they even try to fight? Or did he have to corner them one by one and put them to the blade. What was left of his conscience would have been begging for each of them to fight him, but I'm pretty sure most of it was cornering them. A slaughter either way, but...



Coolest minor scene:
Teenage Jedi padawan bad ### took it to, what, six elite clonetroopers before they gunned him down? Freakin awesome!

[Kaitouace]

Coolest minor scene:
Teenage Jedi padawan bad ### took it to, what, six elite clonetroopers before they gunned him down? Freakin awesome!

Agreed. He became my favorite Star Wars character after Lando. By far my fave character in the Prequel Trilogy. Not counting Clone Wars Grevious.

[de4dp00l]

My biggest problem with the movie was, like so many other people, the acting. But to take it a step further, the acting ruined what I feel had the potential to a great movie. I think this one, on the storyline alone, could have been the best of all the Star Wars movies. But Anakin and Padme were so wooden, so devoid of emotion and passion, that I never really bought into the story at all. And in the end, when Padme dies, what should have been a very emotional moment was just pointless melodrama. I didn't care. What made Star Wars great was that the characters were likeable, and larger than life. Christiansen is a stuffed doll, going through the motions.

The dialogue was pretty weak, too.

Also, the Wookies howling like Tarzan when they were swinging into action pissed me off. Who greenlit that idea? If he wanted to throw goofy junk like that in, he shouldn't have gone out of his way to market this one as "dark" and "scary".

[krusticlese]

Well at the end of episode #25 of Clone Wars Grevious had a brief encounter with Mace. Mace crushed his chest plate with a force grip, then Greivous made a hasty retreat back into the ship. I think it is understandable that Grevious was having difficulty breathing after that.


Ahhh, I must have missed that. At first I thought it was a joke (kind of a complementary cough to go with Vader's weezing) bbecause I couldn't remember why he would be sick.

Thanks!

[MJlover]

I agree with all of the criticisms, but I also agree that if your expectations are low, then it's hard to be disappointed. I knew the acting and dialogue were going to be bad. I was just hoping for a good action movie. I think, in that respect, it worked.

The sad part is that I wasn't expecting much from it. As some have said, story-wise, this could easily have been the best of the 6, but after the last 2, I knew I'd better not expect it to be great.

All in all, it was bad, but entertaining.

[DerangedHermit]

You guys seriously need to check your ability to enjoy a movie if you didn't like Episode III. I can understand not liking Star Wars in general, and thus not liking Ep III, but if your a fan and didn't like it than you're simply hopeless and nothing will ever please you.
The 'bad acting' excuse is the lamest of them all. Guess what, Episodes IV-VI is wrought with bad, over the top acting, it just wasn't 'cool' back than to ##### about a movie and nit-pick every small detail.
In short, sit back, grab a popcorn and soda, and enjoy what is quite possibly the best movie out of the six (I like Empire better, but only by a slim margin).

[Darth Sabre]

You guys seriously need to check your ability to enjoy a movie if you didn't like Episode III. I can understand not liking Star Wars in general, and thus not liking Ep III, but if your a fan and didn't like it than you're simply hopeless and nothing will ever please you.
The 'bad acting' excuse is the lamest of them all. Guess what, Episodes IV-VI is wrought with bad, over the top acting, it just wasn't 'cool' back than to ##### about a movie and nit-pick every small detail.
In short, sit back, grab a popcorn and soda, and enjoy what is quite possibly the best movie out of the six (I like Empire better, but only by a slim margin).

Good Post! Certainly seems like there is a double standard here. Luke took Anakin's "whiny behavior to a new level."


Personally, I think it's one of the best in the series (Just not a good as ROTJ, IMHO!).

[Darth Sabre]

One more thing: Lucas wanted these movies to be similar to early 50's and 60's sci-fi movies. Over the top acting, was a part of them. So if you find them to be cheesy, that's why, the films were created with moves fromthose eras astheir backdrop.

Great Movie!

[FoxInStocks]

You guys seriously need to check your ability to enjoy a movie if you didn't like Episode III. I can understand not liking Star Wars in general, and thus not liking Ep III, but if your a fan and didn't like it than you're simply hopeless and nothing will ever please you.
The 'bad acting' excuse is the lamest of them all. Guess what, Episodes IV-VI is wrought with bad, over the top acting, it just wasn't 'cool' back than to ##### about a movie and nit-pick every small detail.
In short, sit back, grab a popcorn and soda, and enjoy what is quite possibly the best movie out of the six (I like Empire better, but only by a slim margin).

I wish this would fit in my signature line. :(

I especially agree on the acting part. I don't know when lines like 'I should have recognized your foul stench the moment I came on board' became examples of good writing or acting, but Episodes IV - VI had acting and writing just as bad as I - III.

[Halls Fate]

mace is the shut, what happened to plo koon and shaak ti?

[Diablo4485]

mace is the shut, what happened to plo koon and shaak ti?

Plo Koon was the Jedi that got shot down from his starfighter during the Order 66 sequence. As far as Shaak Ti, noone's sure. Last time we saw her she was incapacitated by Grievous but still conscious and capable of speech, so I'm guessing she's not dead.

[daedalus25]

mace is the shut, what happened to plo koon and shaak ti?


In the leaked script, she was supposed to have been killed by Anakin while meditating in the Jedi Temple. Maybe this scene will be added along with the numerous other omitted scenes (like the conversation between Yoda and Qui-Gon) in a special edition DVD to be released later. Or maybe Lucas decided not to kill her off in the end. After all, Yoda said it would take a long time for anyone to notice that they recalibrated the coded signal to warn other jedi away, and it would take longer still to change it back. That would all be kinda pointless if there were no other Jedi alive to benefit from that. I for one hope she did survive and exile herself somewhere, but considering she doesn't play any part at all in IV-VI and would be too old to be an important character in any future Star Wars stories (unless her race has a long lifespan like Yoda's), it's all kind of a moot point. ;)

But enough geeking out. ;) I absolutely loved the movie and have seen it twice already. It ranks right up there with Episode V for me. Granted the second time through, the slow parts seemed even slower, the action sequences still amazed me. And I almost shed a tear seeing all those Jedi murdered by men they had grown to trust.

[FoxInStocks]

As far as I'm concerend, Shaak Ti lives. After the awesome stuff she does in Clone Wars, she deserves a better death than being betrayed by Clone Troopers or cut down while she's meditating.

[Kaitouace]

Also, the Wookies howling like Tarzan when they were swinging into action pissed me off. Who greenlit that idea? If he wanted to throw goofy junk like that in, he shouldn't have gone out of his way to market this one as "dark" and "scary".

To be totally fair, I'm sure that was done to make more connections to the Original Trilogy. Chewbacca did the exact same thing (same sound) when he swung onto the AT-ST with 2 Ewoks in Return of the Jedi.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Also, in the span from episode #25 of Clone Wars and the beginning of Ep III (roughly 2 minutes of elapsed time), When in the hell did Grevious get that bad cough? He went toe to toe with as many as 5 Jedi at a time in the cartoon and never even got winded.


While the explanation of Mace crushing the chest would be the far cooler reason, it's somewhat lamer than that. During one of his many post-production revisions, Lucas decided that Grievous wasn't monstrous enough in the way he'd been portrayed so far (monstrous as in "visually", not in regards to actions - though even then you need to read some novels and the toon to see why Grievious is considered to be so vicious). He decided giving Grievious a hunchbacked appearance (something else not really seen in the toon) and adding a "cough" would make Grievious more akin to Quasimodo and thus more like an evil monster than just some droid. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, it just took a cool character and made him into an 80-year-old woman with TB. :P

Shaak-Ti, according to one of the visual guides on Episode III, dies in the temple when Anakin does his rampage.

[Halls Fate]

awwwww,man :( plo koon was my favorite, shaak ti a close second. Plo koon died in the movie? or in the clone wars cartoon? i dont recall seeing him die in a ship in the cartoon.

[Rokk_Krinn]

awwwww,man :( plo koon was my favorite, shaak ti a close second. Plo koon died in the movie? or in the clone wars cartoon? i dont recall seeing him die in a ship in the cartoon.

Yep, 'fraid Plo died in the movie. During the Order 66 sequence, there's a scene where Plo is flying a Jedi fighter and his wingmen open fire on him.

[Halls Fate]

basstards :ermm: plo koon woulda ####ed them up.

[doctorfate77]

One more thing: Lucas wanted these movies to be similar to early 50's and 60's sci-fi movies. Over the top acting, was a part of them. So if you find them to be cheesy, that's why, the films were created with moves fromthose eras astheir backdrop.

Great Movie!

then why half-### it? why should just the acting be bad? by that logic, the effects should also match the cheesiness(sp?) of 50's and 60's movies. It came off as more of a "smoke and mirrors" effect...

Lucas (ala Hussein from South Park): "Bad acting? ummm... look at the shiny spaceship over there!!! WOW!!! did you just SEEE that battle?????"

The other problem is that The first three movies had an innocent charm to it. There really was a "feel" to the movie of abandon and fearlessness in the making. There was no need to live up to anything or try to follow up what is an American classic. It was, what it was. No more, no less.

Also, there was a certian Errol Flynn-esque Swashbuckling feel to 4-6. No matter how dark it needed to be, there's just a certain... tempo... or momentum that was lacking.

Still, for what it was, I did not think the movie was awful. I still liked it for all its faults, and shirtlessness. But it would be a lie to say that it was the greatest cinematic venture ever.

I'm gonna see it again tomorrow, cause I feel the need to give it a second opinion.

[Darth Sabre]

then why half-### it? why should just the acting be bad? by that logic, the effects should also match the cheesiness(sp?) of 50's and 60's movies. It came off as more of a "smoke and mirrors" effect...


While I wouldn't call it the best cinematic venture ever, I'm jus quoting what I heard Lucas say in sime interview. He was inspidred by 50's & 60's Sci-Fi, and wanted to use elements of those types of films in all of his Star Wars movies.

[Halls Fate]

so how was mace beaten? i doubt anyone especially anakin could take him. :tired:

[phantom1592]

GREAT MOVIE!

Lucas went out of the way to explain so much of the inconsistencies between the two triliogies.

1) Why did qui-gon's body remain when in Yoda and Obi-Wan turned into blue ghosts.

2) Why is vader 7'+ when Anakin... Isn't

3) Why didn't Vader remember the twins.

4) Why didn't C3Po remember Anakin, or at least the Skywalker name

5) How did Obi wan end up with Anakins Lightsaber to give to Luke in IV

6) What could motivate Vader to betray everyone.

7) Where did Luke get all that Whininess from.

8) Why trust one of the twins with a Senetor of Palpatine's


I didn't expect them to adress ANY of these concerns. These seemed to be changes Lucas made on the fly and disregarded the facts from the original trilogy. Actually 7) had already been clear in II. I didn't even find the acting any worse than IV V IV. Everyone talks about Harrison Ford, but WHO ELSE was any good? HAMILL? Fisher? Daniels? Their dialoge is painfull too. One good actor doesn't make a movie, If it does we have mcGregor in III

The ONLY Thing I was disappointed in with III was the death of Padme. Leia told Luke about her mother when he asked her. Padme should have lived another 3-5 years.

Now it looks like She's refering to Bail's Wife which kills the ROTJ scene. Of Course if Padme lived Vader would have known (she's not really the hiding type) I guess he should have just made the movies in order.

I also don't like them saying Stormtroopers are Clones. Granted there are 20 yrs difference, which would put the clones at about 40-50 so by IV they were probably taking civilians and training them to be troopers. We Know Han was in Imperial army training when he rescued Chewie and fled. And later stormtroopers can't hit the side of a barn.

As far as Vader's redemtion. I don't consider that the story of Star Wars. Having see them all, I now consider it to be the failure and redemption of Obi-wan Kenobi. Think of it, He was thrust into training the chosen one WAY before he was ready. He should have spent a little time as a Knight before instantly being in charge of the moral compass of a young Jedi. Especially one that was too old to begin training. He Failed, and his failure brought pain and misery to the galaxy.

years later he starts to train Luke. to Undo his past mistakes. When he is no longer capable of training he sends him to Yoda, but continues to watch over him. Until he is able to kill or Redeem Vader as was Obi wan's responsibility.

One student defeats another student. With Obi-wan the only character in all 5 movies. Unless you want to count 8yr old Anakin and Vader as the same character. That's like saying Jekyll is the same Character as Hyde. Same person different Character.


/endrant

[clixer11]

Through sub-conscious use of the Force, I have no problem with Leia remembering her mother even though she only saw her as a newborn. The power of Jedi perception.

[Rokk_Krinn]

I also don't like them saying Stormtroopers are Clones. Granted there are 20 yrs difference, which would put the clones at about 40-50 so by IV they were probably taking civilians and training them to be troopers. We Know Han was in Imperial army training when he rescued Chewie and fled. And later stormtroopers can't hit the side of a barn.


They're not saying that, really. :) It's been stated elsewhere that the majority of clones had an accelerated lifespan so that they could be "geared up" quicker (which is one reason Boba doesn't have an accelerated span - Jango wanted to raise him more traditionally). By the time of the original trilogy the majority of clones have died off and the Emperor has had them replaced with human soldiers (in part, it's implied, because it's easier to keep planets in-line if they have a stake in the military and their children are under the sway of the Empire).

[phantom1592]

They're not saying that, really. :) It's been stated elsewhere that the majority of clones had an accelerated lifespan so that they could be "geared up" quicker (which is one reason Boba doesn't have an accelerated span - Jango wanted to raise him more traditionally). By the time of the original trilogy the majority of clones have died off and the Emperor has had them replaced with human soldiers (in part, it's implied, because it's easier to keep planets in-line if they have a stake in the military and their children are under the sway of the Empire).

That's the way I look at it too. otherwise Leia wouldn't have been the only one to comment on lukes height.:)

I know I read somewhere that cloning was illegal/forbidden in later books. I imagine palpatine wiped out the cloners to prevent others from using his own "clone army plan" against him.

[supergoblin]

GREAT MOVIE!

Lucas went out of the way to explain so much of the inconsistencies between the two triliogies.

1) Why did qui-gon's body remain when in Yoda and Obi-Wan turned into blue ghosts.

2) Why is vader 7'+ when Anakin... Isn't

3) Why didn't Vader remember the twins.

4) Why didn't C3Po remember Anakin, or at least the Skywalker name

5) How did Obi wan end up with Anakins Lightsaber to give to Luke in IV

6) What could motivate Vader to betray everyone.

7) Where did Luke get all that Whininess from.

8) Why trust one of the twins with a Senetor of Palpatine's


I didn't expect them to adress ANY of these concerns. These seemed to be changes Lucas made on the fly and disregarded the facts from the original trilogy. Actually 7) had already been clear in II. I didn't even find the acting any worse than IV V IV. Everyone talks about Harrison Ford, but WHO ELSE was any good? HAMILL? Fisher? Daniels? Their dialoge is painfull too. One good actor doesn't make a movie, If it does we have mcGregor in III

The ONLY Thing I was disappointed in with III was the death of Padme. Leia told Luke about her mother when he asked her. Padme should have lived another 3-5 years.

Now it looks like She's refering to Bail's Wife which kills the ROTJ scene. Of Course if Padme lived Vader would have known (she's not really the hiding type) I guess he should have just made the movies in order.

I also don't like them saying Stormtroopers are Clones. Granted there are 20 yrs difference, which would put the clones at about 40-50 so by IV they were probably taking civilians and training them to be troopers. We Know Han was in Imperial army training when he rescued Chewie and fled. And later stormtroopers can't hit the side of a barn.

As far as Vader's redemtion. I don't consider that the story of Star Wars. Having see them all, I now consider it to be the failure and redemption of Obi-wan Kenobi. Think of it, He was thrust into training the chosen one WAY before he was ready. He should have spent a little time as a Knight before instantly being in charge of the moral compass of a young Jedi. Especially one that was too old to begin training. He Failed, and his failure brought pain and misery to the galaxy.

years later he starts to train Luke. to Undo his past mistakes. When he is no longer capable of training he sends him to Yoda, but continues to watch over him. Until he is able to kill or Redeem Vader as was Obi wan's responsibility.

One student defeats another student. With Obi-wan the only character in all 5 movies. Unless you want to count 8yr old Anakin and Vader as the same character. That's like saying Jekyll is the same Character as Hyde. Same person different Character.


/endrant

Uhmm your wrong there the're are 3 characters that appear in all 5 movie, Obiwon, R2D2, and C3P0

[phantom1592]

Gahh you're right I forgot about the droids! And to think I put so much time into the forgeting! Thanks.:angry: 3po sucked as usual but R2... When did he become so useful?? And why was he holding back in the later ones...

[Halls Fate]

i just saw it today, man shaak ti was gunned down. but obi-wan is the MAN. He wupped Anakin and grievius. :cool:

[Maniac_nmt]

GREAT MOVIE!

Lucas went out of the way to explain so much of the inconsistencies between the two triliogies.

1) Why did qui-gon's body remain when in Yoda and Obi-Wan turned into blue ghosts.

2) Why is vader 7'+ when Anakin... Isn't

3) Why didn't Vader remember the twins.

4) Why didn't C3Po remember Anakin, or at least the Skywalker name

5) How did Obi wan end up with Anakins Lightsaber to give to Luke in IV

6) What could motivate Vader to betray everyone.

7) Where did Luke get all that Whininess from.

8) Why trust one of the twins with a Senetor of Palpatine's

/endrant

1. Qui Gon developed the power, Yoda and Obi Wan perfected it. Since Qui Gon 'discovers' this ability, and then trains both Yoda and Obi Wan in it's use, it makes sense they do it better. Hah, see, I was vidicated, I've been saying Qui Gon was meditating, and planned on dieing in battle with Maul since episode 1.

2. Because Lucas caved to Hayden Christenson. They didn't even get James Earl Jones to Voice Vader.

3. Vader is told Padme is dead. That he killed her. In which case, as far as Vader knows, the twins are dead (since he dropped her on Mustafar)

4. Bail has C3P0's mind wiped at the end of the movie. Probably so he can't spill the beans.

5. He cuts off Anakin's limbs in the end of the duel. He must take it then so it doesn't fall into unworthy hands

6. Vader has been seduced, and believes the Jedi are out to set themselves up as rulers of the republic. He doesn't like the counsel to begin with, and then he sees them doing things he belives against the Jedi code. Palpatine warps him

7. like father like son 'eh?

8. Bail has been a friend of the council, and it's stated that not all the Senetor's have been corrupted. He would also be above suspicion, as several times he makes statements to appear to appease/go along with Palpatine.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Maniac - Er, I might be wrong here but I'm pretty sure Phantom was saying he was pleased those were all things that were answered in III, not things he had questions about. :) Nice breakdown though. :)

[Darth Sabre]

Well, after seeing this movie for the second time, I must say-if you were not emotionally torn, you are not a Star Wars fan. That's what sets this movie apart from the rest, is the emotional ups and downs that Yoda, Obi-Wan, Padme, and Anakin experience. Also ,there is a sense on impending doom, as the Jedi slaughter begins, and you realize the betrayal that they experience, at the hands of their "allies." Even knowing most of what happens, before seeing the movie, you can not be prepared for the roller coaster ride your emotions are going to go on.

Second time around, different parts affected me emotionally than the first. Most touching, to me, was the end of the Obi-Wan/Vader duel on Mustafar. It's at that point that it all comes together:

Fear leads to Anger
Anger leads to Hate
Hate leads to the Dark Side


Will see it one more time, before I start focusing on Batman Begins, War of the Worlds, FF, and Mr. & Mrs. Smith.

[Darth Sabre]

The ONLY Thing I was disappointed in with III was the death of Padme. Leia told Luke about her mother when he asked her. Padme should have lived another 3-5 years.

Now it looks like She's refering to Bail's Wife which kills the ROTJ scene. Of Course if Padme lived Vader would have known (she's not really the hiding type) I guess he should have just made the movies in order.


As I had suspected long ago, Leia remembers her real mother (that's how Luke poses the question about remembering her), through the Force. Remember that Yoda tells Luke that through the Force, you can see events in the past, present, and future. IIRC, Leia remembers her mother as being beautiful, but being in great pain or sadness. It all comes together at that moment.

[Halls Fate]

Obi-Wan is the coolest, to be able to do so much in his life span is amazing. He even gave his life for Luke to see the evil he had to face. He let himself die so luke could recieve his power, and give him the strength to fight vader. Was Luke the real chosen one? Both had the "ghost hand" in the prophrcy, im betting luke was the chosen one, not anakin because they were never sure anakin was in the first place. They probably sensed strength in him that would eventually lead to the chosen one.

[Darth Sabre]

Obi-Wan is the coolest, to be able to do so much in his life span is amazing. He even gave his life for Luke to see the evil he had to face. He let himself die so luke could recieve his power, and give him the strength to fight vader. Was Luke the real chosen one? Both had the "ghost hand" in the prophrcy, im betting luke was the chosen one, not anakin because they were never sure anakin was in the first place. They probably sensed strength in him that would eventually lead to the chosen one.

No, Anakin/Vader still fulfilled the prophecy. He just went the long way around to do it. :p

[Rokk_Krinn]

No, Anakin/Vader still fulfilled the prophecy. He just went the long way around to do it. :p

Or it could be argued that bringing balance to the Force did not automatically mean in favour of the Light Side - that would not be "Balance", after all. Think of it this way: for centuries the Jedi had been far more powerful than the Sith - wouldn't bringing Balance mean lowering the Jedi's power and raising the Sith's? That's the problem with prophecies - people stake too much that it means what they want and miss those little caveats. :)

[PANZER]

Well ... I think that episodes 1-2-3 are way better than 4-5-6 - WAY BETTER - because of one thing ... #### you all EWOKS!

[phantom1592]

1. Qui Gon developed the power, Yoda and Obi Wan perfected it. Since Qui Gon 'discovers' this ability, and then trains both Yoda and Obi Wan in it's use, it makes sense they do it better. Hah, see, I was vidicated, I've been saying Qui Gon was meditating, and planned on dieing in battle with Maul since episode 1.
Yep and it isn't a power ALL Jedi have. It has to be learned!

2. Because Lucas caved to Hayden Christenson. They didn't even get James Earl Jones to Voice Vader.

I had a friend ask why Vader was 7+ and Hayden obviously wasn't and I replied (just being a smart alec) "In the final battle Vader gets his legs chopped off and when they replace them they give him Leg extensions, Y'know to make him look more intimidating" I nearly fell out of my chair when it was shown I was RIGHT!

As for the voice, I thought it was JEJ!


3. Vader is told Padme is dead. That he killed her. In which case, as far as Vader knows, the twins are dead (since he dropped her on Mustafar)

4. Bail has C3P0's mind wiped at the end of the movie. Probably so he can't spill the beans.
Yep and Yep, In fact when I was watching IV after the movie tonight, we got to the scene where Owen is questioning C3po about Moister Evaporater. C3 makes a commetn that his first assignment was very similiar to Owen's equipment.

I then added in "In fact it may be the same ones" :p




5. He cuts off Anakin's limbs in the end of the duel. He must take it then so it doesn't fall into unworthy hands

After watching one get chopped in half in II I was afraid they would disarm him into the lava or he would start III with a red one or something. As long as the blade was blue and Obi Wan walked away with it, That's all I cared about.:)

6. Vader has been seduced, and believes the Jedi are out to set themselves up as rulers of the republic. He doesn't like the counsel to begin with, and then he sees them doing things he belives against the Jedi code. Palpatine warps him

I believe that was all " the dark side clouding his judgement" There was really no evidence to support these claims and seemed a stretch. The real reason was Love.

Anakin gave up his soul to save the life of the woman he loved. Something a lot of us would have done if the roles were reveresed.

This also shows why the Jedi council had those rules in place about non attachment and Marriage. Love provided a weakness in a Jedi's Armor that others could exploit. I thought that was a dumb rule when I heard about in II but now it makes sense.

7. like father like son 'eh?

Yep. In fact I just got back from watching it again and at the end when Obi-Wan hands the baby to Beru, I whispered to a friend "Here's the child. He needs to be changed." " Oh by the way I don't know if this is normal or not but this kid won't stop CRYING!" He nearly burst out laughing.:D

8. Bail has been a friend of the council, and it's stated that not all the Senetor's have been corrupted. He would also be above suspicion, as several times he makes statements to appear to appease/go along with Palpatine.

And in my opinion the most important reason was he defied the Empire and helped Yoda and Obiwan when they were being hunted. This was an obvious way to know he could be trusted.

[phantom1592]

As I had suspected long ago, Leia remembers her real mother (that's how Luke poses the question about remembering her), through the Force. Remember that Yoda tells Luke that through the Force, you can see events in the past, present, and future. IIRC, Leia remembers her mother as being beautiful, but being in great pain or sadness. It all comes together at that moment.

I don't know, I suppose that's possible. I don't like it though. Lot's of Speculation and guesswork.

[Darth Sabre]

I don't know, I suppose that's possible. I don't like it though. Lot's of Speculation and guesswork.

Well, not really. Now with the events in Ep 3, it's no longer speculation, as that is the only explanation and it makes perfect sense.

[Darth Sabre]

Well ... I think that episodes 1-2-3 are way better than 4-5-6 - WAY BETTER - because of one thing ... #### you all EWOKS!

One race of individuals ruined 3 movies for you..when they only appeared in 1 movie. Makes total sense to me. :rolleyes:

[Halls Fate]

.......................................bacon?

[CREED]

Good points : Only one mention of the mediclorians (spelling?) while it can be debated that this is one too many times, at least we're not given a festival of this oh so frustrating concept like in the first movie!



:devious: Sorry to burst this bubble,but "mediclorians"were mentioned at least twice.I know because it threw me into fits at least that many time!!!!!!!!!!! :nervous:

[Darth Sabre]

What's the big deal about the Midichlorians (sp?)? Or rather, what is the issue that people have with them?

[phantom1592]

What's the big deal about the Midichlorians (sp?)? Or rather, what is the issue that people have with them?

It changes that Jedi are trained and if you try anyone can learns the ways of the force.

Now they're born with the power... Like mutants.

Little nitpicky things. Your now born with a cap as to how powerful you can become. "Anakin has more midiclorians than even Master yoda." Implying that Yoda is so cool BECAUSE of the midiclorian count. Not the 900 years of making an Ally of the force.

[kiddolemite]

It changes that Jedi are trained and if you try anyone can learns the ways of the force.

Now they're born with the power... Like mutants.

Little nitpicky things. Your now born with a cap as to how powerful you can become. "Anakin has more midiclorians than even Master yoda." Implying that Yoda is so cool BECAUSE of the midiclorian count. Not the 900 years of making an Ally of the force.


Not true. The midichlorians are what makes a Jedi able to use the Force. All Force-users have them, the number of them decide how difficult it will be to become a Jedi (or Sith). Some Force abilities can be used untrained, but to really use your powers to full effect, you must be trained.

So, Anakin has more midichlorians than Yoda. That doesn't make him better than Yoda. It means he has the potential to be more powerful than Yoda, if he trained long and hard enough.

What I'd like to know is Luke more powerful than Anakin?

Also, am I the only one who got the impression that Palpatine was Darth Plaugus'(sp?) apprentice? And that possibly Plaugus or Palpatine had a hand in Anakin's conception by the mididchlorians?

(I like saying midichlorians. They make people almost as angry as Jar Jar.)

[Rokk_Krinn]

Also, am I the only one who got the impression that Palpatine was Darth Plaugus'(sp?) apprentice? And that possibly Plaugus or Palpatine had a hand in Anakin's conception by the mididchlorians?


Nope, you're not the only one. Sidious was, indeed, the Apprentice who killed P. in the night, plus Lucas pretty much confirmed that Anakin's "immaculate conception" was actually a Sith manipulation as Palpatine implies in the story told at the opera.

[Darth Sabre]

Or it could be argued that bringing balance to the Force did not automatically mean in favour of the Light Side - that would not be "Balance", after all. Think of it this way: for centuries the Jedi had been far more powerful than the Sith - wouldn't bringing Balance mean lowering the Jedi's power and raising the Sith's? That's the problem with prophecies - people stake too much that it means what they want and miss those little caveats. :)

Found this on a website, that appears to be very close to the source (i.e Lucas):

Poster Q: Well worth the wait. Now for the main point of my letter. It just might be good enough to get posted. How's this for the "Chosen One" theory? It is indeed Anakin Skywalker. Even though Anakin may not have done it as soon as the Jedi may have liked, he did indeed bring balance to the Force by A. fathering Luke Skywalker and of course the obvious B. destroying Sidious/Palpatine in Episode VI. Make sense? Maybe this will finally end the dispute.

SS A: Lucas agrees with you. Anakin was the chosen one although the complete accuracy of the prophecy is debatable.

[Darth Sabre]

Nope, you're not the only one. Sidious was, indeed, the Apprentice who killed P. in the night, plus Lucas pretty much confirmed that Anakin's "immaculate conception" was actually a Sith manipulation as Palpatine implies in the story told at the opera.

From the source cited above:

Poster Q: And was Anakin created by Darth Plagueis, making him Anakin’s father or was it something else that created Anakin?

SS A: Plagueis had nothing to do with the birth of Anakin. Anakin is a child of the Force.

[Darth Sabre]

Not true. The midichlorians are what makes a Jedi able to use the Force. All Force-users have them, the number of them decide how difficult it will be to become a Jedi (or Sith). Some Force abilities can be used untrained, but to really use your powers to full effect, you must be trained.

Everyone has midichlorians, not just Force adepts. Check this list out. I have removed all of the less commonly known people for ease of discussion:

Midichlorian Count List for the major Star Wars characters:

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
Darth Sidious/Palpatine = 20,500
Yoda = 17,700
Luke Skywalker = 14,500
Leia Organa Solo = 14,500
Darth Plagueis (Darth Sidious' master) = 13,600
Count Dooku/Tyranus = 13,500
Obi-Wan Kenobi = 13,400
Mace Windu = 12,000
Darth Maul = 12,000
General Grievous (New Episode 3 Villain) = 11,900
Kit Fisto = 11,800
Yaddle = 11,300
Plo Koon = 11,100
Mara Jade = 11,000
Darth Malak (Knights of the Old Republic video game) = 10,800
Ki Adi Mundu = 10,600
Shaak Ti = 10,300
Darth Revan = 10,200 (Knights of the Old Republic video game)
Aalya Secura = 10,000
Qui-Gon Jinn = 10,000
Average Jedi = 10,000
Chewbacca = 7,200
Aurra Sing = 7,000
Need To be Considered for Training as a Jedi = 7,000
Padme Amidala = 4,700
Beru Lars = 3,700
Shmi Skywalker= 3,300
Lando Calrissian = 3,300
Boba Fett= 1,500
Han Solo = 1,500
Jango Fett = 1,500
Owen Lars = 1,500


So, Anakin has more midichlorians than Yoda. That doesn't make him better than Yoda. It means he has the potential to be more powerful than Yoda, if he trained long and hard enough.

Correct!

What I'd like to know is Luke more powerful than Anakin?

At what point? Anakin never reaches his potential as a Jedi nor as a Sith. Luke goes on to become the most powerful Jedi ever. So I would say at some point, yes. Observe:

20 Most Powerful Jedi of All Time:

Luke Skywalker
Yoda
Aenon Jurtis (Ancient Jedi Master)
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Kaja Sinis (The Very First Jedi and Founder of the Jedi Order)
Mace Windu
Ben Skywalker (Son of Luke Skywalker and Mara Jade)
Plo Koon
Anakin Skywalker
Ce Ce Denowai (Most Powerful Female Jedi of All Time)
Kyle Katarn
Ki Adi Mundi
Princess Leia Organa Solo
Mara Jade Skywalker
Kit Fisto
Qui-Gon Jinn
Shintor Beerus (Ancient Jedi Master)
Yendar Platis (Ancient six-armed Jedi Master)
Bontu Sitmus (Whill Jedi Master Who Taught Yoda)
Anakin Solo (Son of Han Solo and Princess Leia)

20 Most Powerful Sith of All Time:

Darth Sidious
Darth Vader
Darth Bane
Darth Plagueis
Darth Tyranus
Darth Rage
Darth Maul
Darth Scarz
Darth Revan
Darth Imperius
Darth Ghore
Darth Vak
Darth Slane
Darth Vicrone
Darth Malak
Exar Kun
Darth Xio Jade (Best Female Sith of All Time)
Darth Seer
Darth Thrax
Darth Secretus

[Diablo4485]

Where did you find those lists?

And on a similar note, was anyone else a bit disappointed that the nature of midichlorians and the occurrences of Force ghosts wasn't explained in Episode III, as Lucas promised they would be a ways back?

[Rokk_Krinn]

From the source cited above:Quote:
Poster Q: And was Anakin created by Darth Plagueis, making him Anakin’s father or was it something else that created Anakin?

SS A: Plagueis had nothing to do with the birth of Anakin. Anakin is a child of the Force.



Yet in last week's "Entertainment Weekly", George Lucas said the exact opposite in an interview, coming right out and saying that the Sith manipulated midichlorians to impregnate Mama Skywalker. Sorry, the guy on the website may appear to be close, but I'm going to go with Lucas himself being, y'know, he's closer to George. ;)

[Darth Sabre]

Yet in last week's "Entertainment Weekly", George Lucas said the exact opposite in an interview, coming right out and saying that the Sith manipulated midichlorians to impregnate Mama Skywalker. Sorry, the guy on the website may appear to be close, but I'm going to go with Lucas himself being, y'know, he's closer to George. ;)

Can you post the quote here?

I think that making Anakin a child of the Force, adds way more mystique to Vader. This claim would kind of ruin it in two ways:

1.) He was part of the Sith plot all along and is their Frankenstien; and

2.) I'd like to think that the things Palpatine told Anakin at the opera house were to manipulate him further, by using his fear of losing Padme, to continue his conversion to the Dark Side-which also shows Sidious ingenuity. Which should not be down played. The guy used his ability to forsee the future to manipulate thousands of people and carefully plan the events (as well as manipulate them to fit his plans) to gain power. There's a certain beauty within the first 3 films (EP 1-3) , when taken in that context.

[phantom1592]

Where did you find those lists?

And on a similar note, was anyone else a bit disappointed that the nature of midichlorians and the occurrences of Force ghosts wasn't explained in Episode III, as Lucas promised they would be a ways back?

Force ghosts were explained at the end. yoda had "Training" for Obiwan to learn in exile. A form of Immortality. i.e. Force Ghost.

it explained that not ALL Jedi disappear at death, It has to be learned! Also after watching IV again, When Vader strikes down Kenobi, He stomps around on the cloak in suprise. And we KNOW he's killed a lot of Jedi!:)

Successful enough explaination for me.

[Darth Sabre]

Force ghosts were explained at the end. yoda had "Training" for Obiwan to learn in exile. A form of Immortality. i.e. Force Ghost.

it explained that not ALL Jedi disappear at death, It has to be learned! Also after watching IV again, When Vader strikes down Kenobi, He stomps around on the cloak in suprise. And we KNOW he's killed a lot of Jedi!:)

Successful enough explaination for me.

Works for me too! ;)

[batfink]

How does Greivous have Midichlorian when hes a droid?

[Darth Sabre]

How does Greivous have Midichlorian when hes a droid?

Correction: Grevious is half droid, half alien.

[batfink]

Correction: Grevious is half droid, half alien.
I haven't seen the Cartoon Network series & that isn't made clear in the movie. Although, Obi-wan does force open his chest plate & he clearly has internal organs of some sort.

[Darth Sabre]

I haven't seen the Cartoon Network series & that isn't made clear in the movie. Although, Obi-wan does force open his chest plate & he clearly has internal organs of some sort.

I read his profile at the official Star Wars site.

[Rando]

I found episode 3 to be failry mediocre, much like I found episode 1 and 2. I have to congratulate Hayden Christiansin though, while still not a stellar actor I thought he showed a marked improvement from episode 2. Really I just found the movie mired with inconsistencies and bad tempo. For example:

-When did Grievous turn into a total nancy? In his first appearance he wrecked about 5 jedi, one of whom was Ki-Adi-Mundi, a jedi master, and was supposed to have killed like 6 more off screen. Then in his next clone wars appearance he is getting run ragged by 3 non-master jedi? Then in the movie Obi-wan was beating the friggin tar out of him like he were nothing, heck at one point Obi-wan pried his chestplate open with his hands. What was Grievous made of, plastic? Really I found the entire Uthapan bunch of scenes to be pretty poorly put together. Grievous sends Tion to greet Obi-wan, presumedly to get rid of him, and has some droids watch them, Tion counters this by just walking up to Obi-wan and telling him exactly what is really going on. Then Obi-wan gets a riding lizard from somewhere and makes his way right on top of Grievous, who thought to have people watch his landing platform, but didn't have any sensors around to warn him of the approaching army? I don't even understand why Obi-wan fought Grievous really, if he's so vulnerable to t.k. why not just hurl him off the cliff?

-Why was Anakin so stupid? Palpatine, the Naboo senator, lays down this story about Darth Plagius and Anakin isn't at all suspicious of where he could have learned it. After he betrays Mace Palpatine tells Anakin that he doesn't know the life secret that Plagius did, but they will discover it, meanwhile Padme is super late in her pegnancy, she has her babys like a later tops, Anakin had to know about how deep into her pregenancy she was but he's willing to accept "oh hey, I don't have the power that you threw your life away to learn, but hey we'll figure out this ancient mystery in a few days, now go murder a buncha guys for me".

-I thought the tempo on Yoda's escape from Wookie land and return to Coruscant was pretty ridiculous. After Yoda murders those two clone troopers he doesn't say a single thing to Tarfull of Chewie, they just moan at him, then pick him up and go, no explanation as to what's going on at all.

-I also didn't care for how Palaptine could just act with total impunity and very few people seemed suspicious. He comes out of his office with 4 jedi-masters dead, and one of whom is the most powerful warrior in the universe, with some kinda melted face and only Anakin presence to explain it and noone is like "gee I saw Mace rideing over Coruscant on a ship destroying legions of droids singlehandidly, in fact him and Yoda were holding off an entire front of one of the seperatists most massive offensive, yet now I'm supposed to believe this not even a jedi-master killed him and 3 other masters?" Later Palaptine is in the Senatorial chamber hurling senate seats at Yoda and Yoda escapes, you'd think someone would wonder why they have this ridiculous mess to cleanup in a battle between an politician and a jedi master.

-I don't understand what was going on between Sidious and the Seperatists. Dooku certainly knew who Palpatine was, why didn't he say anything when Anakin was about to kill him? What was Sidious telling Dooku as the Seperatists army got driven further and further into the ground. Did Grievous know? Why was he even there? What exactly were the Seperatists goals? Why did they lead to this huge war?

[Darth Sabre]

The point of the war, was to get the ok to use put the clone army into action. Once the army (which was preprogramed with their orders) was voted in, it gave Palpatine the forces to establish control, and create the Empire.

[charlesx]

Force ghosts were explained at the end. yoda had "Training" for Obiwan to learn in exile. A form of Immortality. i.e. Force Ghost.

it explained that not ALL Jedi disappear at death, It has to be learned! Also after watching IV again, When Vader strikes down Kenobi, He stomps around on the cloak in suprise. And we KNOW he's killed a lot of Jedi!:)

Successful enough explaination for me.

Not for me. It explains Yoda's and Kenobi's "Force ghosts." However, Yoda said that Qui-gon had communicated with him. I guess Qui-gon's ghost was not invited to the Ewok party at the end of ROTJ. Funny thing, Anakin Skywalker's ghost WAS invited. But Yoda did not reveal the "training" to Obi-wan until after Anakin had become Darth Vader. So how the heck did Anakin's ghost come into the picture (save for the obvious reason - because St. Lucas's holy CGI team decided that it was to happen!) The problem with this matter is the same as with the whole midichlorians schlock in Episode I - gaping plot holes that you could drive a Star Destroyer through.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed ROTS far better than Episodes I and II, but in the end it was still a mediocre film due to the dialogue and script. The visuals were stunning, no doubt about it.

[phantom1592]

The other reason for the war was to Segregate the Aliens. Dooku was the only "Human" involved with the seperatists. The Emperor hated Aliens and only used them for low jobs and Slave Labor. The war helped establish Aliens as "bad guys"

As for Grievous, His warranty expired. he already killed the 6 jedi off screen, the five with Ki-Adi-Mundi (he escaped to be killed later) the 3 non masters, and then as I understand it (haven't seen the 2nd season) got crushed by mace.

By now, Yeah Obi Wan would have been a challenge.

Sidious played EVERYBODY! The Seperatists, Dooku, Grievous, Jedi, They were ALL expendable.

[doctorfate77]

Here's a really awesome version of the SW Theme...



http://xthost.info/AdamStrange77/Star%20Wars%20Theme%20-%20Swingle%20Singers.mp3

[Rando]

The point of the war, was to get the ok to use put the clone army into action. Once the army (which was preprogramed with their orders) was voted in, it gave Palpatine the forces to establish control, and create the Empire.

I understood that, but obviously Sidious didn't say to the Seperatists leaders "hey, your gonna stage a war so that I can create an army to wail on you with so that I can make an empire." What did they think the plan was? What were their goals?

[phantom1592]

I understood that, but obviously Sidious didn't say to the Seperatists leaders "hey, your gonna stage a war so that I can create an army to wail on you with so that I can make an empire." What did they think the plan was? What were their goals?

They thought they were going to get independance from the Republic. They didn't know Sidious and Palpatine were the same person.

[batfink]

They thought they were going to get independance from the Republic. They didn't know Sidious and Palpatine were the same person.
Dooku knew. I'm not sure about Grievous. The rest didn't know.

[Halls Fate]

[Quote]:20 Most Powerful Sith of All Time:
Darth Sidious
Darth Vader
Darth Bane
Darth Plagueis
Darth Tyranus
Darth Rage
Darth Maul
Darth Scarz
Darth Revan
Darth Imperius
Darth Ghore
Darth Vak
Darth Slane
Darth Vicrone
Darth Malak
Exar Kun
Darth Xio Jade (Best Female Sith of All Time)
Darth Seer
Darth Thrax
Darth Secretus






you forgit about darth sion, and the others from kotor 2

[Darth Sabre]

I didn't forget..they just weren't listed.

[Halls Fate]

oh, you dont think kreia and sion were strong?, of course they are easily beaten but the exile is uber strong, that game was E-Z

[Darth Sabre]

oh, you dont think kreia and sion were strong?, of course they are easily beaten but the exile is uber strong, that game was E-Z
Umm..I don't even know who they are! :cheeky:


Isn't Kreia from KOTOR2?

[JacinB]

How 'bout we just drop the subject and go mine some lava. The Republic can't get enough Lava, you know. Red hot magma, people ... that's what keeps the universe working.

[Rando]

They thought they were going to get independance from the Republic. They didn't know Sidious and Palpatine were the same person.

So why did this involve a war? Planets can't deceide they don't want to be part of the republic anymore?

[phantom1592]

So why did this involve a war? Planets can't deceide they don't want to be part of the republic anymore?

Nope they can't. Being from Virginia you should know that ;)

The war was to get Palpatine in power. Then to get him MORE power. Finally to get him ALL the Power. He needed the war to go from senator to Emperor.

[Rando]

Nope they can't. Being from Virginia you should know that ;)



Your telling me the Republic is set up like the U.S.? No way, those planets have got to have stronger independant powers than states, they have their own armies (at least Naboo did). What does the republic offer to get planets to join, they didn't have any apparent military presence apart from the jedi, they didn't provide any interplanetary infastructure, why would someone join this organization?

[Prof. Aragorn]

Eh, Dooku just did the Sith mind trick to get all the idiots to say to the Republic, "Screw you!", they get rammed in a conflict and Sidious takes over after all is done.

[Darth Sabre]

Eh, Dooku just did the Sith mind trick to get all the idiots to say to the Republic, "Screw you!", they get rammed in a conflict and Sidious takes over after all is done.

Can't Mind trick the Techno Union droids.....

[absolutvt69]

As a pretty neutral observer, I'd have to say the dialogue in all the movies was pretty clunky at times. I had only seen the original one so this past week I watched all six in seven days. I liked the older ones better but the dialogue was still pretty weak. And I thought the third one was leaps and bounds better than the second and first. I don't pretend to be a Star Wars expert so I'm sure there are inconsistencies but I didn't notice any that were hugely visible.

[Komixfrk75]

Well....First off let me say....I don't think this movie could of pleased anyone. I know that the last two movies everyone complained about horrible acting,bad dialouge, and Jar Jar Binks. I think alot of people tend to forget that Lucas is doing these films for himself and no one else. He does not and never will care what anyone has to say about his films. And Hayden Christianson can act I highly recommend the movie Life as a House. It is hard to act when you have no real dialouge to play with .