View Full Version : DTM's Final TOC: Marvel/DC SHW: LOKI vs. THE GENERAL
Well, and what a battle that was. While were missing some of our more common mainstays of these TOCs there (hope we can hear from everyone and then some for this TOC all), the replies have all been very good and convincing all around. Thus far, General Zod has a nice lead over Orion, though with a few more days left til the first quarter of Round 1 is CLOSE, its still anyone fight.
Hope you all enjoy, tell your friends about this and lets see if we cant make this one of the Best TOCs Ever. Thanks all.
Anyone wishing to vote MUST give a reason why you believe the character youre voting for should win. Any votes that are simply "Character X" or "Person Y" will NOT be counted and basically ignored overall. Thanks.
Also, as with the first set of Comics TOCs, there is NO DOWNLOAD of the opponents here. Characters will know about their opponents only if they have crossed paths in the comics before.
The terrain is 25 miles in diameter, as always, protected by a force field of the strongest power to prevent characters from escaping or flying their foes to the sun.
Now without further adieu, allow me to present your next battle in an Age Old type of Tournament Of Champions:
LOKI
VS.
THE GENERAL
As always, same rules apply, no time to prepare, POOFed from where ever they were, with only what they routinely carry on them AND/OR routinely used, to fight in a Large 25 mile wide area til one stands and one falls. YOU decide Who.
Randomly Chosen Area:
Badlands: The Dakotas are home to this unique natural terrain. Vast arid ground merges into weaving corridors of rock and stone. Water is sparse, and the land isn't what one could call hospitable. However, it's there if you know where to look. Despite the almost desert like scenery, it's biting cold here, with winter about to set in.
Thanks all, and enjoy.
And REMEMBER, if youre not sure who someone is here, ASK. Theres PLENTY of people here who can tell you most anything youd like to know. Thanks again.
ALSO, please do your best to respect everyones votes, reasonings and opinions here. If you believe your character should win, but doesnt in the end, dont hold grudges against the character that beat yours, or call the votes that allowed this to happen "fanboy" arguments or plain and simply wrong. We all have our own way of thinking and voting here, with each one of our thoughts and ideas as valid as your own. Lets do what we can, even in the heat of an argument, to respect that. Thanks.
MARVEL/DC TOURNAMENT OF CHAMPIONS SHW DIVISION: PART 2
ROUND 1
Orion vs. General Zod: General Zod
Loki vs. The General: ??????
16 Down, 0 To Go
What stinks is I had both of these guys in my final 4. I'm going to have to think about this one for a bit hopefully someone can give a good argument to sway me to one side or the other.
Ignatz_Mouse
05/20/2005, 16:38
Welp, bad pull for the General. Loki's too versatile, not to mention his ability to thwart/avoid the General.
I'm not sure exactly how he'll take him out, but he will.
Loki to advance.
Welp, bad pull for the General. Loki's too versatile, not to mention his ability to thwart/avoid the General.
I'm not sure exactly how he'll take him out, but he will.
Loki to advance.
Well that wasn't very convincing :confused: :ermm:
The General is invulnerable to any physical assaults. So, his opponent has to outsmart him. Who better to do so than a Trickster god?
I expect Loki to ultimately come out on top.
Vote: Loki
Maniac_nmt
05/20/2005, 16:55
With mystical blasts enough to give even Surtur some pause (Loki lasted longer then either Thor or Odin), a host of mental tricks, invisibility, phasing, illusory powers, etc.
The swiss army knife that is Loki will put the whammy on the General.
Loki demotes his foe back to Private, and strides into the next round.
Wow....I am gonna have to vote Loki on this one. With magic, flying, invisibility, and a whole other barrage of tricks up his sleeve, the General is gonna fall. More than 50% of the time, Loki will take this battle.
i need more info on loki.
i don't see him as a powerhouse, more of a schemer and trickster.
general on the other hand, is a powerhouse.... having gone toe to toe with supes and on one occasion fighting superman, martian manhunter and orion at the same time.
general regenerates almost instantly and continuously.. general was hit in the chest with a tactical nuke, and regenerated two panels later.
to quote supes, "every one of the general's limbs i heat vision away grows back unharmed in seconds"
one of those villains that writers hate, because the only real ways to beat him are to strand him somewhere.
stranded in space.
stranded in limbo.
i don't see general ever catching loki, and i don't see loki doing enough damage to put the general down.
unless someone gives me a great reason to vote for loki, i'm going for a stalemate.
i know thats not a helpful vote, but imo it's accurate.
I think Im going to have to go Loki as well.
Against a purely physical opponent, The General stands in their Top Ranks, unfortunately for him Loki is NOT such a foe. With millenia of experience, as well as a host of other NON Physical powers to affect The General, Id have to say the Trickster God is winning this match up more than not.
My Vote - Loki
Hey, even though this may seem like a slaughter, and even if it is, KEEP VOTING. The more votes we have, the quicker we could recognize this battle as a bit one sided (IF it turns out to be) and I would be more in favor of popping on Match 3 earlier than tomorrow morning.
So dont simply say "Loki is going to win, hes who I would have voted for anyway, so I wont vote here". Vote, even if your guy is way ahead (and this is for all such TOC matches, as it very well could decide how soon the next Match comes up.
Also, keep in mind we still have Orion vs General Zod alive and kicking, and there are still quite a few TOC regulars who have yet to vote there as well. :)
The Mad Titan
05/20/2005, 17:47
A very bad pull for The General, Loki has too many tricks up his sleeve. I agree Loki will take him apart with his magic,mind tricks,and smarts.
i need more info on loki.
i don't see him as a powerhouse, more of a schemer and trickster.
general on the other hand, is a powerhouse.... having gone toe to toe with supes and on one occasion fighting superman, martian manhunter and orion at the same time.
general regenerates almost instantly and continuously.. general was hit in the chest with a tactical nuke, and regenerated two panels later.
to quote supes, "every one of the general's limbs i heat vision away grows back unharmed in seconds"
one of those villains that writers hate, because the only real ways to beat him are to strand him somewhere.
stranded in space.
stranded in limbo.
i don't see general ever catching loki, and i don't see loki doing enough damage to put the general down.
unless someone gives me a great reason to vote for loki, i'm going for a stalemate.
i know thats not a helpful vote, but imo it's accurate.
I think the Superman, MM and Orion pile up was with Doomsday, not The General (as I dont think the General has ever fought Orion)
Again MANY of the combatants here Id go The General, but against the Uber Mystics such as Loki and Fate (as they are well versed in fighting outside of just physical means) I see him going down more than not.
Cryomancer
05/20/2005, 18:03
A terrible, terrible pull for the General. Nothing quite like being almost immune to physical assaults and pulling one of the top tier magical combatants who can quite effectively play keep away with phasing and teleportation. I vote Loki.
I think the Superman, MM and Orion pile up was with Doomsday, not The General (as I dont think the General has ever fought Orion)
Actually, he did. Remember, Orion's dog Sturmer was the one who eventually knocked The General into limbo.
Rokk_Krinn
05/20/2005, 18:12
I think the Superman, MM and Orion pile up was with Doomsday, not The General (as I dont think the General has ever fought Orion)
I believe he's referring to the fight when the General was part of the Injustice League as I want to say Orion was part of that dogpile (and, yep, even if he wasn't, the General has fought Orion and did just fine).
I'm tempted to say Loki on this even though big bruiser types seem to be a bit of a weakness for the guy. :) However, there is something that's bothering me here - the normal way of defeating the General is "banishment" (sealing him on an asteroid, for example) but Loki can't do that here. He can try magical/mental attacks but the General will insta-heal from those as well (plus if Martian Manhunter has tried mental attacks on the General, than the guy has some resilience to them). The General doesn't "stun" so that takes out the incap option (and is one of the reasons I disagree with the General being in these types of tournaments) and eventually Loki is going to have to get hit - not only is it not in character for him to just stay intangible blasting away the whole time, but even he has a limited stamina. The fact of the matter is that if you can't stun the General - and you certainly can't kill him - and you're not allowed to "banish" him than there's simply no real way to defeat the General in this tournament.
I think the Superman, MM and Orion pile up was with Doomsday, not The General (as I dont think the General has ever fought Orion)
Again MANY of the combatants here Id go The General, but against the Uber Mystics such as Loki and Fate (as they are well versed in fighting outside of just physical means) I see him going down more than not.
as others have already said, it was general who fought supes, mm and orion at the same time.
i left sturmer off because i figured he's pretty obscure.
personally i don't think anything loki's got is going to pack enough of a wallop to put the general down for the count.
and i hardly think running away should count as a win.
to me thats a draw.
What a bad pull for the General. He can take a lot of pain, but Loki has other ways of dealing with him. Loki has a big bag of tricks, and he won't hold back. My vote...
LOKI
The fact of the matter is that if you can't stun the General - and you certainly can't kill him - and you're not allowed to "banish" him than there's simply no real way to defeat the General in this tournament. Yeah that pretty much sums up why i see the general winning this one. There is only so much time loki can waste before he is going to have to step in and take his medicine. General to advance as far as i'm concerned.
My apologies about not remembering Orion was part of the JLA during WWIII all. :)
As for ways to defeat The General, I dont remember him having any such immunities to mental or magical attacks, nor do I remember Martian Manhunter using mental attacks on him during their fight (just because Martian Manhunter is in a fight with someone, doesnt mean hes using mental attacks, a form he very rarely if ever uses). That being the case, I dont see why Loki couldnt simply magically affect The General in a non physical way (mind control, sleep spell, illusions, etc.) Loki does have the options, where in this battle The General has next to none in return.
Rokk_Krinn
05/20/2005, 20:59
As for ways to defeat The General, I dont remember him having any such immunities to mental or magical attacks, nor do I remember Martian Manhunter using mental attacks on him during their fight (just because Martian Manhunter is in a fight with someone, doesnt mean hes using mental attacks, a form he very rarely if ever uses). That being the case, I dont see why Loki couldnt simply magically affect The General in a non physical way (mind control, sleep spell, illusions, etc.) Loki does have the options, where in this battle The General has next to none in return.
The General basically has immunities to any attack his body (inc. mind, spirit, etc.) has faced in the past, plus he basically instantly regenerates from darn near anything. Think of his adaptation power as hyper-version of Doomsday's "unbeatable against something he's faced" power. I seem to remember the Manhunter using psychic attacks at one point. More importantly, this is still the Shaggy Man's body which means this body has faced mental and magical attacks numerous times in the past. He also has an uber-stamina that would tend to be put the kibosh on "sleep attacks" (as the General's body literally doesn't sleep, eat, etc.). While Loki can use an illusion attack that's not going to do anything more than act as misdirection - he still needs a way to put down the General.
DOOMSTRIKER
05/20/2005, 21:57
im going with The General here, for reasons allready posted, he's pretty much an unstopable killing machine, Loki could trick him for a little bit, but it wouldnt do anything in the long run, he could magically attack him, causing moderate temporary damage, which is not going to put him down for long if at all. eventually the general is gonna get a hold of the trickster god, and he's gonna be angry, because all the porting and phasing that he had to put up with
so my vote: The General
Maniac_nmt
05/20/2005, 22:50
im going with The General here, for reasons allready posted, he's pretty much an unstopable killing machine, Loki could trick him for a little bit, but it wouldnt do anything in the long run, he could magically attack him, causing moderate temporary damage, which is not going to put him down for long if at all. eventually the general is gonna get a hold of the trickster god, and he's gonna be angry, because all the porting and phasing that he had to put up with
so my vote: The General
I keep hearing this sort of 'Loki isn't a powerhouse', 'can't put enough hurt on' type stuff.
He actually hurt Surtur. You know, the guy who pop smacked Thor and ko'd him one hit, and just about snapped his fingers and took out Odin. A being meant to destroy all that is.
Lastly, how does the General handle intense radiation? Loki can turn himself into a being of pure radioactivity, and causes his cellular regeneration to break down.
Loki has a hard time against Thor, because:
a. Thor can force confrontations with Mjolnir (ie can force Loki out of hiding)
b. Mjolnir is one of the single most powerful items in comics
c. Thor has thousands of years of dealing with him
d. Thor has a fairly high magic resistance/immunity
e. Mjolnir can absorb alot of Loki's spells and enchantments
Lastly, Loki is pretty snazzy in the regeneration department himself. He did reattach his own head after all.
Rokk_Krinn
05/20/2005, 23:03
I keep hearing this sort of 'Loki isn't a powerhouse', 'can't put enough hurt on' type stuff.
I'm not saying Loki doesn't have some raw power, but I really don't think he's got more raw power than, say, Manhunter, Superman, Orion and the Wardog combined. The General is essentially immune to raw power - it doesn't phase him in the least anymore. He's "adapted" past it (and regenerates fast enough that any damage is moot). By the same token he'd handle radiation just fine - not only has he been subjected to it (as has Shaggy Man) which means he's now "adapted" past it - but his regenerative capabilities and stamina would make even the nastiest radiations moot. He'd just regenerate the cellular damage (i.e. - turn his bones into stronium all you want...they'll just revert to, well, whatever it is that they are - most likely not standard bones after all. :) )
michiganj24
05/20/2005, 23:23
Well in order to regenrate you have to have some kind of body left to regenrate form and thus if you are completely obliterated in one shot that would stop you, a circumstance most heroes would not pull making it harder for a hero than a villan to beat him. Not saying he necessarily has that power but to stand up to and hurt surtur means you are a major force. Besides I couldnt vote against the one character that made MM a must buy so i could luckily pull him.
Rokk_Krinn
05/20/2005, 23:31
Well in order to regenrate you have to have some kind of body left to regenrate form and thus if you are completely obliterated in one shot that would stop you, a circumstance most heroes would not pull making it harder for a hero than a villan to beat him. Not saying he necessarily has that power but to stand up to and hurt surtur means you are a major force. Besides I couldnt vote against the one character that made MM a must buy so i could luckily pull him.
Well, not only is the General invulnerable enough to take shots from some of the highest powers in the DCU - beings that could probably make Surtur notice a hit from them :) - so Loki's probably not obliterating him in one shot, but Gen's regeneration would work even if he's reduced to "microbe sized". The Shaggy Man has literally regenerated from nothing more than "resonance" in the past - that's part of his whole stock in trade.
I've been thinking about this one for a bit. We've a super-powered buriser, a living-killing machine if you will, against a formindable swiss-army knife magic user, who's Asgridian to boot. This is one of those matches that would go all 12 rounds, for sure. In the end though, I don't think that Loki can do enough damage to stop the General. Sure, agaisnt someone who didn't have his kind of stamina and regerantion, I'd give it to Loki, but in the end the General will be on top. Sure, he won't be in the best condition, but he'll be victorious, at least 51% of the time.
Well, not only is the General invulnerable enough to take shots from some of the highest powers in the DCU - beings that could probably make Surtur notice a hit from them :) - so Loki's probably not obliterating him in one shot, but Gen's regeneration would work even if he's reduced to "microbe sized". The Shaggy Man has literally regenerated from nothing more than "resonance" in the past - that's part of his whole stock in trade.
First off, I dont remember the General being Super Durable, he was much more Super Regenerative than anything really. (I mean, a exploding Batarang blew his hand off, something that really wouldnt put a dent in Superman, though General grew it back in seconds) So I dont see him being one of the hardest to hurt characters as much as one of the hardest to finally put down, physically anyway.
Secondly, maybe Im wrong, but I dont remember The General being able to adapt to what injures him before for an increased resistance to it now (thats more Doomsdays thing). I could be wrong, but I never heard that ability mentioned, him being extra durable against previously attacked forms, before. He was basically just a huge powerhouse who could regenerate from near anything that caused him physical harm. Good for Loki, he can defeat him here without causing him physical harm.
And lastly, sure he may not NEED to sleep, but that doesnt mean hell be immune to a Sleep spell from Loki that will FORCE HIM to sleep. Not needing to sleep and not sleeping when magically forced to are 2 different things.
Even if Loki has only a 2% chance to win here, The General pretty much has a 0% chance to defeat Loki in return. Again an uber brick of the highest caliber, sure, but against a sorcerrer of the highest caliber (who also happens to be a God), not so much.
The General - 3 votes
Loki - 9 votes
since there's no download of the opponents, and fighters only know about thier opponents if they faced them before... how does loki usually operate?
does he go in firing off the blasts that sutur felt, or does he go in with tricks and taunts and stuff?
i think running in firing massive energy blasts seems a little out of character for loki.... could just be me tho.
After reading the posts I'm going with The General. Loki can't hurt him at all, sleep spell isn't going to work (his body is basically a robot and they don't sleep). Loki will get fustrated and do something stupid then The General will clobber him hard.
Vote: The General
Rokk_Krinn
05/21/2005, 11:44
Secondly, maybe Im wrong, but I dont remember The General being able to adapt to what injures him before for an increased resistance to it now (thats more Doomsdays thing). I could be wrong, but I never heard that ability mentioned, him being extra durable against previously attacked forms, before. He was basically just a huge powerhouse who could regenerate from near anything that caused him physical harm. Good for Loki, he can defeat him here without causing him physical harm.
.
Well, not only was it mentioned at one point that the General's body was "learning their attacks and how to deal with them" but as noted his body is that of the Shaggy Man. That was the Shaggy Man's power - super-regeneration and adaptation (plus high-strength and durability...despite the batarang example there's far more examples of the General taking heavy hits from Manhunter, Orion, Superman, etc. and not being stunned or dazed - you need some imperviousness for that). Just because he no longer goes by the name "The Shaggy Man" it doesn't mean his powers have changed.
Maniac_nmt
05/21/2005, 12:00
since there's no download of the opponents, and fighters only know about thier opponents if they faced them before... how does loki usually operate?
does he go in firing off the blasts that sutur felt, or does he go in with tricks and taunts and stuff?
i think running in firing massive energy blasts seems a little out of character for loki.... could just be me tho.
Loki's typical mo when faced with an unknown opponent would be to 'ghost' arround, testing his foe to see what works and what doesn't.
During the entire heros reborn line he never fought untill issue 11 of the Avengers, as he spent the rest of his time running arround, sucking the life force out of people, learning mo's, powers, etc.
Supposing the General somehow is immune/resistant to Loki's magic (which I doubt, none of the guys mentioned use it) in intial stuff, I don't see why he wouldn't slap down the stuff he used on Surtur, and blast the parts far enough appart so that even if they regrew, it'd take more then 10 seconds.
Shoot, he's creative enough, why not a spell that phases the General straight down into the ground, or one that pulls him apart (altering people's physical structure is something he can do). Heck, he turned Thor into a frog and deprived him of his powers that way (he needed the Twilight Sword to maintain the transformation, not to effect it). He could turn the general into a frog (depriving him of his regenerative powers, and no, his cells could not regenerate from that, Thor lost all his power untill he could regain Mjolnir, and Thor is still very strong without it, yet lost almost all that power) and then step on him. It's not first use stuff, but when left without options he'd do it.
The General has zero ways to make Loki fight him.
Loki's typical mo when faced with an unknown opponent would be to 'ghost' arround, testing his foe to see what works and what doesn't.
During the entire heros reborn line he never fought untill issue 11 of the Avengers, as he spent the rest of his time running arround, sucking the life force out of people, learning mo's, powers, etc.
Supposing the General somehow is immune/resistant to Loki's magic (which I doubt, none of the guys mentioned use it) in intial stuff, I don't see why he wouldn't slap down the stuff he used on Surtur, and blast the parts far enough appart so that even if they regrew, it'd take more then 10 seconds.
Shoot, he's creative enough, why not a spell that phases the General straight down into the ground, or one that pulls him apart (altering people's physical structure is something he can do). Heck, he turned Thor into a frog and deprived him of his powers that way (he needed the Twilight Sword to maintain the transformation, not to effect it). He could turn the general into a frog (depriving him of his regenerative powers, and no, his cells could not regenerate from that, Thor lost all his power untill he could regain Mjolnir, and Thor is still very strong without it, yet lost almost all that power) and then step on him. It's not first use stuff, but when left without options he'd do it.
The General has zero ways to make Loki fight him.
#1 the general's "pieces" don't need to be together to regen.
he's caught a tactical nuke in the chest that sheared him in half.
he was fine two panels later, and he was regen'ing in the first panel.
he doesn't need to be next to the old part, he simply grows a new one.
#2 the blasts he used on sutur were probably the best loki has.
sutur had already ko'ed odin and thor correct? loki knew it was time to bring out the big guns on an asgardian enemy.
#3 if loki can alter reality on anyone not possesing mjolnir, imo you've just classed him outside shw.
i agree that the general has zero ways to make loki fight him.
but, i don't think loki has anything in character that can stop the general.
i still say this is a draw.
Loki - 9 votes
The General - 4 votes
RK, I dont believe youve officially voted as yet (or if you have I missed it), so if you are supporting one of the other, please feel free to do so and Ill be happy to count it. Thanks.
And is the Shaggy Man (The General) a mechanical robot, or an organic being that simply doesnt need to eat or sleep (ala Juggernaut)?
the general is genetically enhanced salamander tissue.... but it's synthetic tissue.
technically, he's not organic.
he doesn't need to eat, sleep or even breath.
he also has enhanced senses.... not that it'll help him catch loki, but he can smell him.
Keep in mind though, that just because a character doesnt need to sleep, doesnt mean hes immune to mental or magical assaults which will FORCE him to sleep.
Also, whats stopping Loki from turning his blood into acid, and constantly burning him alive as he himself regenerates (effectively rendering the General useless)? Or blasting off his head every second, knowing it will take 2 seconds to grow back? Or simply mind controlling the much weaker will of General Eiling and ordering him to stop fighting (going for the 30 second incap win)?
As mentioned before, Loki is not like the heroes that were fighting the General in the JLA, he is EVIL, and will have no problems taking the fight down a dark and gruesome path in order to win, Superman and the JLA cant say the same.
Sure The General might not be able to be KOed, but he can be incapped long enough for Loki to be declared the winner.
Another thing to consider is that while the physical power of the General is Vast, his mind is essentially just that of a mortal human, who in the realm of the Superhuman is by far the least experienced (including even the use of his own powers) in this entire TOC.
Loki on the other hand is a God, who has been around for millenia, and not just any God, a Trickster God. A God that is used to battling those more physically superior to himself with the use of cunning, deceit, trickery and guile.
Loki not only has a vast array of magical powers and abilities, but eons more experience and intellect over his foe here. Simply put, out of all the characters in this TOC, Loki is pretty much THE WORST foe for the General to battle, and if Loki has practically no chance to win here, The General has even less.
Maniac_nmt
05/21/2005, 17:37
#3 if loki can alter reality on anyone not possesing mjolnir, imo you've just classed him outside shw.
Shrug, he created the Absorbing Man and the Wrecker to battle Thor, during Heros reborn drained the life energy from Kang, Mantis, the Masters of Evil, and just about everyone else the Avengers fought (if it got all the way down to it, what keeps him from absorbing the General's life energy?).
In his first appearance in the Avengers, it more or less took Thor to beat him (and a lead lined container).
Dr. Fate can handle him, Alan Scott can (thanks to his powers being magical in effect), Morg can probably handle him (thanks to the power cosmic), and people in that vein. So no, I don't think altering people puts him out of class.
With no way to bring the battle to Loki, sooner, or later he'll turn the General into something, or cast a petrifcation spell on him, whatever. He's done it before, and there is no reason to think he wouldn't if other things failed.
I don't think he'll win fast, but there should be no question at all that he will win eventually. In time he'll use some of those more seldom used tricks.
DOOMSTRIKER
05/21/2005, 17:40
ok so if Loki just turns everyones blood into acid instantly, and then blows off there head, and then magically strips them of all there power instantly, and turns them into a frog.....
why is Loki in SHW class? if he can just will someones powers completly away, without any hope of regaining them, and instantly turn anythings blood to acid, shouldnt he be a low end cosmic being? because i cant think of any SHW that could take him, given the powers stated here.
Rokk_Krinn
05/21/2005, 17:41
Keep in mind though, that just because a character doesnt need to sleep, doesnt mean hes immune to mental or magical assaults which will FORCE him to sleep.
Also, whats stopping Loki from turning his blood into acid, and constantly burning him alive as he himself regenerates (effectively rendering the General useless)? Or blasting off his head every second, knowing it will take 2 seconds to grow back? Or simply mind controlling the much weaker will of General Eiling and ordering him to stop fighting (going for the 30 second incap win)?
As mentioned before, Loki is not like the heroes that were fighting the General in the JLA, he is EVIL, and will have no problems taking the fight down a dark and gruesome path in order to win, Superman and the JLA cant say the same.
Well, no offense but if it was that easy to just order the General to "sleep" or "stop fighting" than it would've been done during WW-III. Not to mention, he has been mentally attacked in the past and thus has "adapted" to it now. He's also been magically attacked - Zatanna has faced the Shaggy Man and while Loki might have more skill than Zee, that's still a fairly strong sorceress using magic on the General's body. Think of it: the JLA with all the resources at their disposal - including the vast mental powers of Martian Manhunter (this was the Grant Morrison run when MM could do pretty much anything psionically - heck, Aquaman could do darn near anything psionically under Morrison :) ) - still had to resort to stranding the General on an asteroid light-years away or keeping him "trapped" in a teleporter.
Loki could keep blasting off the head but two things would happen: the first is that the General's body would start developing an immunity to it (hyper-adaptation continually forced to deal with something) and the second is that even Loki's stamina isn't without limit. 2 seconds of headlessness does not Incap the General which means it doesn't really get Loki where he needs to go (as for turning the blood to acid - the fresh blood the body regenerates won't be acid and this isn't a D&D troll we're talking about...acid does not stop his regen).
You're right, I haven't voted because what I've been trying to say is that realistically the General doesn't fit in these tournaments. He's not killable, he's not stunnable, etc. and with the "closed in arena" you can't use the normal methods for defeating him. I won't vote for an essentially unbeatable character but that certainly doesn't mean I'm voting against him either.
OK, maybe the blood to acid thing was a bit much, but my point still stands. Loki has abilities that the JLA do not, and is more willing to use them in evil, malevolent and harmful ways than the JLA is. (and if memory serves, I think the JLA were busy doing ALOT more than just fighting The General at the time of WWIII, meaning it wasnt a long drawn out fight with the entire JLA vs Big G, and didnt fight him very long because they simply had bigger fish to fry)
But, Im certainly someone willing to listen to all of our participants here. If anyone else believes that The General is NOT BEATABLE by pretty much ANYONE on this entire TOC list, say so here and now, please.
If we get enough people saying The General cannot be defeated here, then I will have no choice but to get rid of him and pick another SHW in his place. Personally, I dont believe this is so, and I do believe Loki is one of those who can do so (Ultron is another as he just recently did so in another TOC match up), but I am just the one vote, one opinion. If any of you wish to have The General removed because you believe him to be unbeatable, please say so now.
if your looking at someone to eliminate because he's too powerful, i think your looking in the wrong direction.
the general isn't the one turning people into frogs, turning blood into acid and blowing peoples heads off every second.
Goblin_Avenger
05/22/2005, 01:11
I think even if Loki can't KO the General (and I personally think he could find a way- neither combatant tires and theres no time limit, right? give loki 100 years and he definitly would have KOed the General), Loki's primary powers of illusion, deciet, and trickery, could prevent The General from ever laying a finger on him. Even if DTM's rules prevent ditching ones opponent on another plane, couldn't Loki's illusions and invisibility, astral form, and ability to travel to Asgard (where the general can't follow) all him to entrap his foe in a permanent illusion or other wise disable him from harming Loki?
It might stalemate for over a year, but I vote for Loki, because I figure he'll just throw everything he has at the general, and then make stuff up until something KOs this guy.
Prof. Aragorn
05/22/2005, 02:23
Dear lord is Loki outmatched here. I doubt anything Loki throws at the Shaggy one could stop him. Besides, Loki is really arrogant and the General is a beast.
Vote: General
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