Clix vs. Comix TOC! 36-40pts. Round 2 Match 4: INVISIBLE GIRL VS. HUMAN TORCH

[Magnito]

Can you say sibling rivalry?

I was playing Heroclix the other day, and building my team, I had 103 points left. I looked at my selection and realized that U HT Batman and R IC Hulk both cost the same. This got me thinking. Just because they are Heroclix equals doesn’t translate back translate back to comics. I think most of us would agree that Hulk could beat Batman in a fight.

That is the idea for this tournament. Every entry will be close to the same amount of points Heroclix wise, but this will be their comic forms fighting!

Rules:
This will be a standard single elimination tournament with 32 combatants. There will be 2 to a fight. They get no knowledge of each other (unless they have fought in the past). The only thing they get is the Heroclix figure of there enemies, and a PAC so they know what the opponent looks like and a bit about what they can do (this can be misleading however, like if they face Electro and think he will try to poison them). They will have 5 minutes to prepare. This is a fight to the death or KO, whichever happens first, and they must fight (no waiting for the opponent to die of starvation). They have with them what they normally carry and what there fig has if it is different. (Like how Bullseye doesn’t carry a gun, but he has one on the fig). If the fig that is being used is the rookie, you do NOT have to treat the fighter like that. (unless the characters powers change dramatically ie: Rouge)

When you vote, please try to justify your answer. You don’t have to write an essay, just a short explanation will do.

Terrain
There are 10 terrains that are all 5 miles in diameter. They will be chosen randomly.
With out further delay…

Invisible Girl
CT, 37pts.
vs.
Human Torch
CT, 40pts.

Terrain:
Big Freak'in Huge Circus by The Red Baron
5 mile big circus. Watch out for the animals and clowns. Cannons are shooting people so watch out, and don’t hurt the bystanders.

21-25pts. winner: Live Wire
26-30pts. winner: Zatanna
31-35pts. winner: Killer Frost

Round 1
Sabertooth vs. Fury: Fury
Starman vs. Lizard: Starman
The Darkness vs. Plastic Man: Plastic Man
Clayface III vs. Abbey Chase: Clayface III
Mr. Hyde vs. Harpoon: Mr. Hyde
Constrictor vs. Puck: Puck
Wildchild vs. Scarecrow: Scarecrow
Taskmaster vs. Hyena: Taskmaster
Boon vs. Human Torch: Human Torch
Brainiac 5 vs. Calypso: Brainiac 5
Ultimate Doctor Octopus vs. Talia: Ultimate Doctor Octopus
Ravager vs. Logan: Logan
Wulf Sternhammer vs. Rouge: Wulf Sternhammer
Ultimate Hawkeye vs. Archangel: Ultimate Hawkeye
Star-Spangled Kid vs. Invisible Girl: Invisible Girl
Tomoe vs. Deathstroke: Deathstroke

Round 2
Deathstroke vs. Plastic Man: Plastic Man
Ultimate Doctor Octopus vs. Logan: Logan
Mr. Hyde vs. Taskmaster: Taskmaster
Invisible Girl vs. Human Torch:

[Magnito]

INVISIBLE GIRL
Susan Storm found she could turn herself invisible when she was exposed to cosmic rays. She later learned to generate force fields which she can manipulate into a variety of forms. Along with her fiancé Reed, brother Johnny and friend Ben, she founded the adventuring team, the Fantastic Four. Namor tried to win her hand, but she and Reed eventually married. Over the years Sue has matured in both power and character, eventually re-naming herself Invisible Woman. When not saving the universe, she lives in the Baxter Building with her husband and her two children; Franklin and Valeria

HUMAN TORCH
After being bombarded by cosmic rays Johnny Storm discovered he could burst into flame and fly. Taking the name the Human Torch, he agrees to become a member of the Fantastic Four. By shouting "Flame On!" the Human Torch blazes into action; throwing fireballs and exploding his powerful nova blast. When not tormenting Spider-Man or the Thing, Johnny is charming the ladies. He has dated Crystal, Galactus' herald Nova, Namorita and even unwittingly married a Skrull named Lyja.

[Magnito]

If these two don't know each others powers like the backs of their hands, then I don't know who does. I think that the would modt likely agree to clear the circus befor the fight. If they're just fighting eachother, I don't see a reason that they'd risk hurting a bystander.

[Magoogles]

Invisible Woman would put a force field around Torch putting him out for good
My vote Invisible Woman

[icymatt]

Big sister Sue gives little Johnny a wedgie.

Her forcefields can block anything Torch throws at her.

Vote: Invisible Girl

[DTM]

Magnito, is there any way you could put each characters experience level up along with their point value. Point values are good, but I dont have each figures points memorized to what REV level that is. Keep in mind a Rookie character is generally much weaker than their Veteran form, which I believe were also using as a factor in your fights, yes?

What levels are these two combatants at, as the Invisible GIRL wasnt nearly as strong or versitile as her later forms.

[St-Dumas]

This is fun.

I gotta give it to Invis. That bubble is amazingly strong and I don't think Torchie can penetrate it.

My vote: Invisible Girl/Woman

[Magnito]

Magnito, is there any way you could put each characters experience level up along with their point value. Point values are good, but I dont have each figures points memorized to what REV level that is. Keep in mind a Rookie character is generally much weaker than their Veteran form, which I believe were also using as a factor in your fights, yes?

What levels are these two combatants at, as the Invisible GIRL wasnt nearly as strong or versitile as her later forms.
It's true that she isn't as strong, but my rule is, unless the persons powers actually change, then their most recent form can be used. In other words, this is Invisible Woman, She has the same powers, she just got better. Since almost everyone in this TOC is the R, then everyone is given the same advantage, (unless I state otherwaise, like for Rouge and Star-Spangles Kid)

[Magnito]

As for the winner, I agree. I think that Johnny would hold back a bit when fighting sis. Sue on the other hand could find another, more peacefull way, to KO him. (For example, but him in a bubble, deprive him of Oxygen, and wait him to go to sleep from lack of Oxygen). My vote...
INVISIBLE GIRL

[Rokk_Krinn]

It's true that she isn't as strong, but my rule is, unless the persons powers actually change, then their most recent form can be used. In other words, this is Invisible Woman, She has the same powers, she just got better. Since almost everyone in this TOC is the R, then everyone is given the same advantage, (unless I state otherwaise, like for Rouge and Star-Spangles Kid)

That's true, but as I've noted previously, Sue's powers did change drastically in capability/power between the incident that caused her to go from Invisible Girl to Invisible Woman (i.e. - the Malice incident). Previously Sue did not do the whole "Green Lantern-constructs" things really with her force fields. She made force fields around herself or others and that was pretty much the extent of what she did with them. I would say this is one of those cases where the character should be considered at her Invisible Girl stage and not Invisible Woman.

Now, that being said, she can still extinguish Johnny just fine by smothering him in a force field. The match still goes to her - I just feel she's different enough from her current "power levels" to almost be a different character.

Vote: Sue Storm

[Magnito]

OK Rokk, you make a good point. I would appricate any other view points. What do you guys think. Should this be IG or IW? (Keep in mind, almost EVERY other character gets to use their most recent form)

[DTM]

I got the impression you were using the comic character in their career that represents the point value of the figure youre using. If this is a fight with the Rookie Invisible Girl, it should be her in her Rookie form. Heck, I figured that would be the same with every combatant in this type of a TOC, since were putting them into weight classes based on their HC point value, so why wouldnt the comic character fighting in these TOCs be based off of that figure, at that time in his/her career as well.

[Magnito]

I got the impression you were using the comic character in their career that represents the point value of the figure youre using. If this is a fight with the Rookie Invisible Girl, it should be her in her Rookie form. Heck, I figured that would be the same with every combatant in this type of a TOC, since were putting them into weight classes based on their HC point value, so why wouldnt the comic character fighting in these TOCs be based off of that figure, at that time in his/her career as well.
The reason I don't do that is because the time is so blurred. How do you know the exact moment when someone stops being a rookie and becomes experienced?

[DTM]

Then why use the Rookie or Exp figures at all, why not just stick to the Veterans for each character, as that is obviously the easiest to pin point in the comics. It would also prevent characters from appearing more than once, as using R and E and V figures you could have all of these characters appearing 3 seperate times in these TOCs (and all getting the benefit of being the most powerful and experienced form for each of them) If were matching these characters together using the HC point value as the comparison, I figure we should try as best as we can to use THAT version of the character in their actual battles here.

Hey, its your TOC, youre the boss, just dropping my 2 cents here.

[Magnito]

Then why use the Rookie or Exp figures at all, why not just stick to the Veterans for each character, as that is obviously the easiest to pin point in the comics. It would also prevent characters from appearing more than once, as using R and E and V figures you could have all of these characters appearing 3 seperate times in these TOCs (and all getting the benefit of being the most powerful and experienced form for each of them) If were matching these characters together using the HC point value as the comparison, I figure we should try as best as we can to use THAT version of the character in their actual battles here.

Hey, its your TOC, youre the boss, just dropping my 2 cents here.
Again, I thought about it. But the Vets were so spread out that I would have had to make the braket bigger then only 5 pts at a time. So far, I've avoided having to repeat characters. It will happen eventually though.

[Magnito]

Again, I thought about it. But the Vets were so spread out that I would have had to make the braket bigger then only 5 pts at a time. So far, I've avoided having to repeat characters. It will happen eventually though.
...and after all, the point of this TOC is to compare people that are close in points. if I made the brackets any bigger, it would be missing the point.

[MSU]

IG or IW, it don't matter cause I think Sue will be able to outlast and smother Johnny out. She can block anything her brother throws at her, Sue to round 3.