Why do people hate Rob Leifield?

[darthfatty]

I took an 8-year break from comics, starting in about 1993. Leifield was hot, then, and I liked his stuff. He was eben in a Levi's commercial. 8 years later, I come back and most comic art looks like some combination of Leifield and McFarlane, but everybody hates Robbie, and he's nowhere to be found. What did he do? I've heard everything from weak characters and crappy stories to out-and-out rip-offs. Somebody shed some light on this for me, and pleas be specific. Thanks, all.

[ohoni]

His style bugs real artists, and people who appreciate real artists. It's fluff and hackery, but it has a snazzy look that some people go for, kind of like a car that looks like a performance sports car, but is actually really slow and clunky. His proportions are terrible, and his poses are often repeated or stolen from other artists. His characters all tend to look the same and/or be completely off model (for example his Tim Drake Robin is wearing at least half of D. Grayson's old costume and has Liefeld's Caine's head).

If everybody greed that he sucked there wouldn't be a problem, there are plenty of artists who everyone agrees sucks, but the fact that he has a legion of rabid fans pisss off those of us who know better. ;)

[DOOMSTRIKER]

he is a bad artist, and im not just ripping on him, shure he isnt the worst artist ever, but really he isnt top shelf, and he isnt totally dead, he's doin sumthin' for DC sometime in the near future (Titans i think) and he has a web page with some of his "best" work, and you can see how he draws the Titans, and chances are you wont enjoy it

[DOOMSTRIKER]

PS. your avatar rocks my ankle wings

[Trader2699]

The man can't draw feet!

Upper torso's fine, but from the knees down all of his characters look really bad.

[turdburglar47]

I think his art is really ugly.

[DarkCrisis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Liefeld

Check out the "Artistic Criticism" part

[psmccormick]

The fact that everyone he draws is constipated.

[Par2ch]

Why do people hate Liefeild....well heres a little story why I DESPISE HIM

X-Force #1 came out in 1993/1994 and my comic book store was having him come in to sign this book. I saved up all my money (13 at the time) to buy 10 copies of X-force #1 (2 of each card).

I bugged my mom to take me to the store at 6am so I could be the first in line. Signing wasnt going to begin till 11;45. I was soo excited I was 3rd in line by the time i got there. Needless to say we waited a while but at 11:30 my comic guy came out and said he was here and ready to sign comics. The store owner then posted a sign ALL COMICS MUCT BE OUT OF PLASTICS!!. I took all 10 issues out of the bags and boards I put them in and entered the store. When I finally got up to Liefled I placed all 10 books in front of him. Then all of a sudden he pushes the book right back to me and says " cant u read RETARD.. all books are supposed to be out of plastics. He then took his gold marker and put a big X on one of the #1 and said heres your signature, if u want more get to the back of the line, maybe next time u will follow directions. Needless to say I was more then distraught....My mother furious at Liefield picked up the remaining 9 books and threw them in his face telling him to F*ck off.
We left and that was that. When I came back a week or two later the comic shop owner appologized and offered me my money back for the 10 books I purchased. (I think my mom made him) and to this day i still have that one issue that has the big X on it...to remember NEVER to purchase a ROB LIEFIELD book again...he can rot in H.E.L.L

[Onestandard]

I'm not a Liefield fanboy, but $10 bucks says that most of you (and this isn't addressed to anyone in particular, but rather to everyone who's heaving animus Liefield's way) shelled out a lot of money during the 90's for Liefield's stuff and LIKED IT.

To say that he's a "bad artist" is extremely naive and in the context ridiculous. First of all, what makes art "great" (whatever kind of art you might be referencing) is how people respond to it. There are no set "laws of art" because if there were, most uber-famous artists (classical and pop) would fail the test. Secondly, comparing Liefield to other comic artists and saying that he's a "bad one" whatever that means is ironic, because I would venture that most classical artists would agree that pop art such as comics is tawdry and a lesser artform. So really, it comes down to personal preference.

That said, I think Liefield gets a lot of grief because he symbolizes what the industry was like during that period in the 90's when the industry almost went belly-up because of overcommericalization and gimmicks. But I would suggest not hating the player, hate the game.

[Par2ch]

FYI all issues of X-force #1 were pollybagged and this was the reason for liefled reaction.....

[Cell]

He sucks . Next question

[stormfang1502]

What did he do? I've heard everything from weak characters and crappy stories to out-and-out rip-offs. Somebody shed some light on this for me, and pleas be specific. Thanks, all.

If you'd like a sterling example of his tendancy to rip off other people's characters, look no further than Deadpool. He's practically a carbon copy of DC's Deathstroke. And Leifeld was horrible at writing for him.

Deadpool didn't really become a decent character until Liefeld left and the newer writers gave him some good stories (and teamed him up with Taskmaster, pure genius).

[WadeDeadpool]

The name "Rob Liefield" makes me both physically sick and gives me an urge to cause physical harm to something nearby.

I am dead serious in the above statement.

This is the man whom, almost single-handedly, destroyed the reputation of comics that is just recently beginning to be built up. Being brought in with true talents like Jim Lee, whom I hold as one of the best artists of all time, and Todd McFarlane, whom while I don't especialy like as a person, I cannot deny his talent, Liefeld was set up as a high-profile comics artist at just the time I was breaking into the industry. My goal then, and to be quite honest still is today, is to either write or draw for Marvel. (Hey, if I work long enough at it, it just may come true.)

At first, I thought that Liefield would be some flash in the pan artist whom would die out in about three months. Unfortunately, this was not the case. As weaker and weaker inkers started working on his books, all his flaws, which I won't reiterate since they are already posted above (the link from DarkCrisis especially) became horrendously evident. Drawing men with large muscles and women with large breasts is fine, I have no problem with it. But I prefer to have their human anatomy make sense. Mr. Liefield apparently forgot that there was such thing as the human skeleton. Feet became formless jellyfish and bicepts became larger than torsos. These were all fine for characters of his creation. But when he started destroying Captain America and Iron Man, two of my favorite characters in the whole comicverse, I became nearly enraged. He became notorious for characters not looking the same even from panel to panel.

As for his writing, if it can even be called that, it is mindless, pointless drivel that rarely has a plot. I can't remember one of his stories making any sort of semblence of sense. His writing could be compared to Chuck Austen unfavorably, and it's not even a strech at some times. (You don't even want to get me started on Chuck Austen...)

To sum it up, this is the man who nearly discouraged me from picking up a single comic again in my life. Luckily, reason won out, and not only am I an avid reader, but I should finally be published (allbeit by a tiny regional company) by the end of the year.

I need to go play some 'clix or something. Liefield puts me in such a bad mood...

[BigSoph]

He is a git.

Never met the man but his style is complete ####e and he once drew a pic of a character who had 60+ teeth visible

He also had a tendency to draw both feet poiting the same way (either 2 left or 2 right)

I never got his stuff, any chance of me picking up any Marvel in the 90's would be cancelled by his chicken scratch artwork

[delowen]

Why do people hate Liefeild....well heres a little story why I DESPISE HIM

X-Force #1 came out in 1993/1994 and my comic book store was having him come in to sign this book. I saved up all my money (13 at the time) to buy 10 copies of X-force #1 (2 of each card).

I bugged my mom to take me to the store at 6am so I could be the first in line. Signing wasnt going to begin till 11;45. I was soo excited I was 3rd in line by the time i got there. Needless to say we waited a while but at 11:30 my comic guy came out and said he was here and ready to sign comics. The store owner then posted a sign ALL COMICS MUCT BE OUT OF PLASTICS!!. I took all 10 issues out of the bags and boards I put them in and entered the store. When I finally got up to Liefled I placed all 10 books in front of him. Then all of a sudden he pushes the book right back to me and says " cant u read RETARD.. all books are supposed to be out of plastics. He then took his gold marker and put a big X on one of the #1 and said heres your signature, if u want more get to the back of the line, maybe next time u will follow directions. Needless to say I was more then distraught....My mother furious at Liefield picked up the remaining 9 books and threw them in his face telling him to F*ck off.
We left and that was that. When I came back a week or two later the comic shop owner appologized and offered me my money back for the 10 books I purchased. (I think my mom made him) and to this day i still have that one issue that has the big X on it...to remember NEVER to purchase a ROB LIEFIELD book again...he can rot in H.E.L.L


:eek: Wow. If you needed a reason to hate someone, I guess that would do it. Wow...

[tyroclix]

I got really turned off on Liefeld during the Heroes Reborn junk.

You'd pay your money and get treated to 8 panels - and that's it.

Captain America would be throwing a punch for half the "story".

After that anything with his name is met with complete derision - which explains my hatred for Cable, Wolfsbane - oops, make that Feral, Deathstroke - oops make that Deadpool, Longshot - oops, make that Shatterstar...

The guy draws like he's using the old Mighty Man and Monster creator. I mean how many figures can there be that have both Colossus's armor or single glowing eyes?

And while his art is better in my opinion, J. Scott Campbell can also take a flying leap. Wildsiderz? Yeah, like anything with him attached is gonna get my money. Can't wait for the 6 reprints (with new covers) of the #1 issue ove the next 11 months while I wait for issue 2 to come out.

But at least I could console myself with news of a Wildsiderz video game, movie deal, and TV series. Bite me.

[RedDragon]

first off i never liked him (and never fall for any of the hype)! nor did i buy that many of his books maybe 8 to 10 only, it true or it true. its damn true. he along with everthing that was going on with marvel at the time is why i got out of comics. i stoped collecting from 91' til 03' not even one book. then one day i saw ultimate x-men #41 new mutants:part 2 bought it read and started collectinf again. i ahve since went back and bought the whole line of ultimate x-men. still can't read any of the other x-men stuff and i use to love x-men. just too many titles. and how does wolverine find the time to sleep;eat;shower;or restroom break. i mean how many books can he be in in a month!!! won't be geeting any of the house of M. all ####! but i read alot of D.C. title now. love I.C. and go get all if the infinite crisis bulid up title great reading. and i absolutely hate that leifeild is doning my teen titans man that messes up my subcription. :(

[ohoni]

To say that he's a "bad artist" is extremely naive and in the context ridiculous. First of all, what makes art "great" (whatever kind of art you might be referencing) is how people respond to it. There are no set "laws of art" because if there were, most uber-famous artists (classical and pop) would fail the test. Secondly, comparing Liefield to other comic artists and saying that he's a "bad one" whatever that means is ironic, because I would venture that most classical artists would agree that pop art such as comics is tawdry and a lesser artform. So really, it comes down to personal preference.

And it is because of people like this that Rob never developes as an artist. He ####s on your faces and you ask for more, so he gives it to you. With other ####y artists, people tell them that they are ####y and they work hard an improve. Rob has no reason to try, since people will buy whatever he scribbles on the back of a napkin so long as it has his name attached to it.

[Wrecking_Crew]

Man, my only reply now is...ditto! The previous posters got it 100% right. Leifield's art to me is butt ugly (which is subjective, I agree), and his writing/plotting is worse than hack level...it plain sucks (and that is a fact.)

I certainly dont hate the guy on a personal level (i dont know him), but I do detest his work.

I DO like Cable though, go figure :)

[AZS]

Art in and of itself is subjective, sure, but someone who can't grow or evolve as an artist in 10 years of doing regular (high profile work) is a hack.


The reason I 'hate' leifield is summed up in one title: Dooms IV.
It was offered as a 1/2 issue from Wizard mag, back when I used to order all the half issues, whether I'd heard of them or not.

I got this steaming pile called a 'comic book' in the mail, and it was filled with litterally every bad comic book cliche that existed. The art was atrocious, and the writing was so bad it made the rest of the book look good by comparison.

After that, I intentionally avoid anything with leifield's name on it. And just to make sure, I'll occationally flip through one of his books at the comic store to reafirm that he's a hack.

[Rocketman]

i hate the guys art but to be honest, that deal with the kid in the comic shop made me absolutley certain that I will never buy anything from that talentless hack again.

[de4dp00l]

Rob's art has always been total junk. Some people do like it, I guess, but I think that they tend be the younger fans who don't really care much about actual talent - they just like to see big muscles, guns, and boobs. The reason he was hot in the 90s is because he was pandering to the trend at the time - comics in the late 80s and early 90's were, in my opinion, getting a little boring (Marvel, at least - I didn't read much DC back then). Way too much dialogue, and not enough action. Rob, along with a number of other artists, went way too far in the other direction, dropping dialogue almost completely, and adding way too much action. Why was this so hot? The best analogy I can offer is this - ever get stuck behind somebody driving about 20 miles under the speed limit on a back road that you know really well? A road that doesn't offer many opportunities for passing? Once you finally hit that straightaway, you pass the guy, and proceed to exceed the speed limit by a large margin for a while, simply because you're so pissed that you were stuck behind that loser for so long. Eventually, reason returns, and you start driving the same speed you normally would on that road. This is the point in the analogy when you realize that Rob Liefeld really sucks.
And Rob was really young when he started at Marvel - everyone knew his art was bad, but everybody assumed it would improve, so people were willing to let it slide for a while. Sadly, it's never improved significantly.

[Hellpop]

In addition to his various failings as an artist and writer, he's also a horrible publisher. He begins projects, and then quickly loses interest in them and begins another project (do a Google search for Youngblood: Genesis and Youngblood: Bloodsport). Diamond Comics will not even distribute his comics anymore, due to the number of times he solicited comics and them failed to actually produce them (and just imagine how fans and comic store owners feel, who placed orders for these comics).

He has also p*ssed off creators that worked for him, most notably going so far as to repeatedly use Kurt Busiek's name in hyping a comic, despite the fact that Busiek asked him not to (Busiek didn't actually write the comic, he just provided rough outline plots).

[Darth Sabre]

Personally, I never had a problem with the guy's art. However Par2ch's story certainly puts his character in the toilet with the likes of Joe Q, BMB, and Todd Macfarlane.


I mean , Jae Lee, now there is one terrible artist, whose art can ruin a story. I hope his run on Ultimate FF ends after the current arc. It will be hard to swallow Millar's stories with Lee puking up that garbage he calls art. :ermm:

[Fatman&Blobbin]

Liefeld just sucks monkey butt where do I begin?

I NEVER bought any of his comics EVER! I seen his run in the late 80's and early 90's and took a look at his art and laughed! Where do I start, his anatomy sucks in a nutshell, both the male and female form. I guess the only way people buy his regurgitated #### is that the inker tries to cover for his mistakes and then they put up some flashy colors to blind you from the core of the art.

Besides the fact that he isn't that great of an artist, He has a bad working attitude. He didn't get fired from Top Cow for nothing! He tried to steal Micheal Turner from Marc Silvestri's company even though all the founding members of Image made an agreement to not dip into each others talent pools. After that his company practically disappeared. Every time he resurfaced for a project it always fell through.

Not to mention most of his characters border on plagerism.

[ViperWingLeade]

I have never had the (dis) pleasure or meeting Mr. Liefeld, however back in the Early 90's when I was reading X-Force, I remember seeing an article in Comic Buyers Guide that showed Panel for Panel lifts from Liefelds ####, and like olf FF and Hulk books.


I stopped reading his stuff...


Alex Ross on the other hand I have met, and he seemed pretty cool ::clutches his 4 signed copies of MARVELS #1::

[Diablo4485]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Liefeld

Check out the "Artistic Criticism" part

Yikes, that picture of Cap is just BAD. Switching perspective in the middle of a drawing and not correcting it is just plain lazy, and the resulting product makes it look like Steve just got fitted for a wonder bra. That's the kinda drawing that should be crumpled up and thrown in the trash before it even gets to the inking stage.

[DOOMSTRIKER]

OMG!

that is the worst picture of Cap. i have ever seen!

[zedington]

Wow, when you guys say he copied panels wholesale, you weren't kidding. This is ridiculous...

http://julien-gautier.club.fr/rob_copie.jpg

[Stepper79]

for a short time I worked for a comic shop here in nashville who brought in Rob Leifield and Sal Buscema on the same day. This was the ultimate image of why Rob Leifield will never amount to anything but a second class hack. Sal sat there all day talked to every fan and drew a personalized image for anyone who asked (i still have my Hulk and its awesome). Rob on the other hand would only drawn one of three characters from the book he was currently working on and nothing else. At one point I said to someone else working the show that on one side you have pure class (Sal B) and on the other side a total A**. The owner told me later Rob heard that comment to which I responded GOOD!!

He is a royal jerk who hasn't improved his art in 10-15 years and I hope the DC jettisions him as soon as possible

[Ignatz_Mouse]

I'm not a Liefield fanboy, but $10 bucks says that most of you (and this isn't addressed to anyone in particular, but rather to everyone who's heaving animus Liefield's way) shelled out a lot of money during the 90's for Liefield's stuff and LIKED IT.



I'm the exception that proves the rule, then. I've hated him since he broke out. I think the only comics I have of his are Hawk and Dove, which I bought for the characters, and before he became a big name.

As far as "there are no rules"-- I call BS. Sure there aren't hard and fast rules of what makes good art. But godo art has something to recommend it-- and RL's stuff does not. He's a second-rate pin-up artist who can't tell a story to save his life. And even his pin-ups are lousy.

[DarkCrisis]

I never got into the Liefield craze in the 90s. I just didn't like his stuff... although I loved Cable.... hehe I pretty much just read Uncanny X.

[algrim]

It was a combination of Rob's carpy art and the new direction of the title that led me to drop New Mutants when he jumped aboard. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

Imagine my frustration when he started creeping up on the Teen Titans. I mean who would raw Wonder Girl with a package?!?!? WHO?!?!?

If you are a fan of RL or are undecided, find a pic of his Wonder Girl... you will see what I'm talking about.

[Thawmus]

It was a combination of Rob's carpy art and the new direction of the title that led me to drop New Mutants when he jumped aboard. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now.

Imagine my frustration when he started creeping up on the Teen Titans. I mean who would raw Wonder Girl with a package?!?!? WHO?!?!?

If you are a fan of RL or are undecided, find a pic of his Wonder Girl... you will see what I'm talking about.

http://www.robliefeld.net/titans1.htm

WHAT THE #### IS THAT IN HER PANTS?????

For crying out loud, does he need to draw muscles on EVERYTHING???

[hail_eris]

That's the new Wonder Girl. You're supposed to wonder if she's a girl...

I'm curious to know where Starfire finds pants that have a size 4 left leg and a size 10 right one...

[Frontman]

The reason I don't like the guy was the status of "He's a prodigy! He's incredible!" malarky that folks piled on him, until not only was it proven he takes panels and does "homages," he does full pages of work in "homages" which means in the real world.....


He traces.


It takes zero talent to place tracing paper over someone else's work and then add your own details.

The Frontman

[hail_eris]

It takes zero talent to place tracing paper over someone else's work and then add your own details.
Details like eight-pack abs, dangling chimplike arms, and a total disregard for rules of perspective. No, if all he did was trace them, that would be one thing. Then at least he'd have panel-to-panel consistency and his characters would have feet. He manages to trace things and somehow reinterpret basic human anatomy in the process. There are more talented artists doing caricatures on boardwalks...

[d-roc69]

What I most liked about his figures were when they would jump into to battle. There would be a figure falling or lunging toward the reader. But he would have a strange leg shooting out of no where. It would not be properly proportioned and it always took me a little while to figure out what it was. Then I realized not to buy his books and no longer had this problem. Also every character had the same hair style whether it was male or female.

Plus, I think that your mother should have slapped him in the face for what he said. That is one of the most horrible things that I have ever heard.

[Tom1210]

If you'd like a sterling example of his tendancy to rip off other people's characters, look no further than Deadpool. He's practically a carbon copy of DC's Deathstroke. And Leifeld was horrible at writing for him.

Deadpool didn't really become a decent character until Liefeld left and the newer writers gave him some good stories (and teamed him up with Taskmaster, pure genius).


Maybe, but Deathstroke is also a rip-of of Captain America. Let's just agree that Liefeld is the worst comic artist that ever lived

[delowen]

Maybe, but Deathstroke is also a rip-of of Captain America. Let's just agree that Liefeld is the worst comic artist that ever lived

How is Deathstroke a rip-off of Captain America? The super soldier serum idea?

[maraxus_60]

That said, I think Liefield gets a lot of grief because he symbolizes what the industry was like during that period in the 90's when the industry almost went belly-up because of overcommericalization and gimmicks. But I would suggest not hating the player, hate the game.


that statement is a little bit of both a load and the truth

he came into being in those times and that was about it he doesnt really symbolize anything he does for himself and that is it
he rode the bandwagon of those that came before him
when marvel started putting out a million different covers of one thing he did it also when they decided that they were going to make a new hero to compete he tried to do it better (usually failing in the process)

the only thing that i ever resented him for was that everything that i ever liked about him was thrown out when he called me an ####### and challenged me to a fight infront of a bunch of my friends and people that i knew at a local comic shop where he was signing books i was 17 at the time there is no reason that an adult should be threatening a 17 year old kid is there?

after that i watched as he went downhill and laughed all the way
ive always followed his career and when i would goto the local shop i would laugh when they would tell me of the latest thing he had done

2 out of 6 aint bad right? u mean thats what his average was for 2 years (94-96) he put out that much work in 2 years i mean come on thats not work its ####
so no your analogy really has nothing to do with him being labeled to or associated with the boom and fall of comics industry wide in the 90s if you wanna blame anyone it was marvel comics that screwed the pooch not leifeld (sp)he just proceeded to actually alienate anyone who actually like him at one time or another

[Socko]

Man, He acted like a dickhead more than once?

that actually surprises me. youd think a professional could, well, act professional!



You guys just made me ditch what very little respect I had for him as a comic creator. even though he copied everything. and then acted like "oh, its an homage"


Well, We can homage him like we do for chuck austen. Not buy his crappitty #### work.





Also, That captain america is one of the biggest blunders in comics. How do you do that?

seriously!