View Full Version : Batman Begins II Villiain?
St-Dumas
06/18/2005, 01:18
It is only natural that in the wake of a good movie, five different threads are made about it. Nontheless, I ask you: Who will be the villain in Batman Continues?
*Spoilers*
I believe there will be two, as adding villains to comic-book movies enhances them. One will be the obvious Joker, whose calling was left at the tail end of the movie. Who will be the other? I am hoping for Clayface or Man-Bat. What about you guys?
Rokk_Krinn
06/18/2005, 02:37
It is only natural that in the wake of a good movie, five different threads are made about it. Nontheless, I ask you: Who will be the villain in Batman Continues?
*Spoilers*
I believe there will be two, as adding villains to comic-book movies enhances them. One will be the obvious Joker, whose calling was left at the tail end of the movie. Who will be the other? I am hoping for Clayface or Man-Bat. What about you guys?
Mentioned this in a previous thread but this seems as good a spot as any to redo it. :) It was said in last week's issue of "Entertainment Weekly" that the current "blueprint" for the three Batman movies - at least as hoped for by the director, main writer, etc. - is to have the Joker for the second movie and Two-Face for the third. No mention of secondary villains.
Well we know Scarecrow will be back! :D
And Joker is obvious. I'd like to see Harvey Dent as a good DA for one whole movie, and then see him get the acid in the face at the end, to segway into movie 3.
And someone mentioned Penguin as a mob boss, that would be sweet. Sort of to replace Falcone.
Cliff Stockton
06/18/2005, 07:38
Personally, I hope they stay away from villians that are more than human right now.
No powers. No creatures.
I like the idea of staying with more flawed human characters like Joker andTwo-Face.
If any villains deserve to make it to the big screen it's these two with Catwoman coming
in third.
I really loved the hint at the end of who we might see in the next one!
I would like to see Joker in the next movie. Maybe have Batman take down a lesser villian/crimeboss at the begining of the movie, where they can introduce Harvey Dent as the new head DA over kattie holmes. Then have Dent get the acid treatment at the end of the movie during trial, and that will set him up for the 3rd movie. I would also love to see at the end of the 2nd Ra's rise up out of the lazarus pits. Then have 2 face and Ra's in the 3rd, but to have Ra's in a lesser role, always keep him in the back to where he could return at any time. Id also love to see Harley quinn with joker but that may make for too many villians.
Over on movies.com they have a ruomor that not only will it be the Joker, but that Mark Hamill might play him.
They disrespect the idea a bit, which is pretty ignorant of Hamill's previous Joker experience.
http://movies.go.com/moviesdynamic/buzz
Over on movies.com they have a rumor that not only will it be the Joker, but that Mark Hamill might play him.
They disrespect the idea a bit, which is pretty ignorant of Hamill's previous Joker experience.
http://movies.go.com/moviesdynamic/buzz
michiganj24
06/18/2005, 20:47
I dont think it is a disrespect of his ability its just that Mark hamil is geyying up there and the joker will be a intensive role. Its the same logic behind why Indy Jones 4 might be bad if Ford cant fullfil the roles requirements and they have to work around his limiatations. As a voice either is fine or even in a dramatoc role but an action flick is pretty m,uch behind them
The Red Baron
06/18/2005, 21:01
forget mark hamil, the one who needs to be joker is chirspin Glover
Hamill could pull it off. His major problem these days is he's not really the best looking guy in the world thanks to that car accident years ago, but since he'd be in make-up, that wouldn't matter much.
I haven't ever seen Willard, but if you are going to diss Hammil for Star Wars, you have to diss Glover for Back to the Future. I am guessing they have both matured as actors though. I'll give the edge to Hamill, because he was AWESOME in TAS. He had the cackle down pat.
Hamill could pull it off. His major problem these days is he's not really the best looking guy in the world thanks to that car accident years ago, but since he'd be in make-up, that wouldn't matter much.
I haven't ever seen Willard, but if you are going to diss Hammil for Star Wars, you have to diss Glover for Back to the Future. I am guessing they have both matured as actors though. I'll give the edge to Hamill, because he was AWESOME in TAS. He had the cackle down pat.
The difference between Hamill and Glover is that Hamill has only done one 'real' role ... Luke Skywalker.
That's it. That's all he's got on his resume. Everything else is voice-over work. Even in movies where he'll be 'appearing', he only shows up as a voice. And, he's old ... far too old to fit with the movie timeline, make-up or no.
Crispin Glover, on the other hand, has the right look for the part. He's got the 'creepy' factor. He's not 25+ years older than the hero. And, he's got lots of movies to his credit that actually display his acting talents rather than his voiceover talents.
And, more to the point, you're looking for an actor that can replace Jack Nicholson's performance in people's minds. Mark Hamill simply cannot do that.
When it comes right down to it, Mark Hamill doesn't belong in any Bat-movie that is looking it revitalize the franchise. Period. He'll kill it quicker than George Clooney did.
The difference between Hamill and Glover is that Hamill has only done one 'real' role ... Luke Skywalker.
That's it. That's all he's got on his resume. Everything else is voice-over work. Even in movies where he'll be 'appearing', he only shows up as a voice. And, he's old ... far too old to fit with the movie timeline, make-up or no.
JacinB is wrong! (I had to say it) Mark Hamill played a villain in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. He did a pretty good job and it was an action roll as well.
Big Trouble
06/20/2005, 13:59
This is all fun speculation and such, but I think the point is being missed. What ruined the original Bat movies (other than Schumacher) was the Bat villains. We have to give them an origin, we have to glam them up, so much as to THEY were the focus of the movies.
I think the focus on Batman is what makes Begins so enjoyable. Most of the general public knows NOTHING about Ra's. So the twist at the end probably left most people confused, but the story ROCKED so much we could deal with it. And I LOVED the fact that NOTHING was said/mentioned about Scarecrow's origin (comics or made-up movie origin). He was just there and being a wonderful character.
Place the emphasis on Batman, his struggle, and give it a good story and even the Condiment King could captivate audiences.
Charaxes
06/20/2005, 14:07
JacinB is wrong! (I had to say it) Mark Hamill played a villain in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. He did a pretty good job and it was an action roll as well.
Not wise, man. Not wise. JacinB is never wrong. Ever. And he gets quite riled up when someone says otherwise...
To answer the question posed by the title of the thread...Killer Croc. He needs to be in a movie as a secondary villain role...
BudPalmer
06/20/2005, 14:16
Steve Buscemi has the creepy factor but I don't think he or Crispin Glover could pull it off.
Actually, no. The secondary villain in the second movie needs to be Catwoman. Here's why.
In the second movie, we have Batman again fighting thugs and mafia, while on the trail of a guy named the Joker (with that part of the story being exactly as written by Ed Brubaker in Batman: The Man who Laughs ... nothing else will do).
We see more of Katie Holmes, seeing more of the Bruce Wayne she loved 'back then' in the Bruce Wayne we've got now. However, Batman isn't interested in losing the mask and just being Bruce. So, he doesn't return her feelings ... and, instead, begins something of a romance-that-isn't-a-romance with Catwoman.
Eventually, he catches the Joker. The Joker is on trial in the last scenes of the movie, when he throws acid on the new District Attorney, and friend of Bruce Wayne and Jim Gordon's, Harvey Dent.
That sets up the third movie.
Harvey Dent is broken. We get to see, basically, 'The Long Halloween' turned into a movie. Toss in any number of other mafia bosses and other 'cameos' (like Zsasz), and you've got a good trilogy.
BudPalmer
06/20/2005, 14:22
In the second movie, we have Batman again fighting thugs and mafia, while on the trail of a guy named the Joker (with that part of the story being exactly as written by Ed Brubaker in Batman: The Man who Laughs ... nothing else will do).
Except
(SPOILERS)
The poisoning the water supply has been done already in the first film. I for one would like them to avoid the repetition (I loved the Brubaker story though).
Except
(SPOILERS)
The poisoning the water supply has been done already in the first film. I for one would like them to avoid the repetition (I loved the Brubaker story though).
Meh. Then change it to some other method of delivery. Though, even two poisoning gimmicks may be too much ...
BudPalmer
06/20/2005, 14:32
Meh. Then change it to some other method of delivery. Though, even two poisoning gimmicks may be too much ...
I was a bit upset when I saw that because it would ruin the adaptation of The Man Who Laughs! It sucks but after the first film, I trust them to do OK.
I'm curious how they're going to pull off a Joker story without some element of poisoning and wanting to kill everyone if Gotham. And, no matter how they do that, it's going to get tricky having it not duplicate this film, or the first Batman when Nicholson's Joker tried to do it.
You really can't do Joker as Joker should be done and not have the plot come off as duplication of something. Though, in 'The Man Who Laughs', Joker got caught before he could poison the water supply, didn't he? So, we'd get more of a detective story that ends with the major disaster being averted before the threat materializes.
(And, since that toxin merely needed to be ingested, rather than inhaled, that would make more sense to stop it before it was actually released ...)
BudPalmer
06/20/2005, 14:43
I'm curious how they're going to pull off a Joker story without some element of poisoning and wanting to kill everyone if Gotham. And, no matter how they do that, it's going to get tricky having it not duplicate this film, or the first Batman when Nicholson's Joker tried to do it.
You really can't do Joker as Joker should be done and not have the plot come off as duplication of something. Though, in 'The Man Who Laughs', Joker got caught before he could poison the water supply, didn't he? So, we'd get more of a detective story that ends with the major disaster being averted before the threat materializes.
(And, since that toxin merely needed to be ingested, rather than inhaled, that would make more sense to stop it before it was actually released ...)
You know back to the film why wouldn't the microwave devise evaporate the water in a person's blood stream?
You know back to the film why wouldn't the microwave devise evaporate the water in a person's blood stream?
It's all a bit technical ...
Even though it didn't make sense, I just accepted it because I know that I can boil water in my microwave and not suffer any ill effects (that we are currently aware of). Sure, there's some shielding in there, but you know some of those things escape somewhere (like the vent in the back, or the rubber seal around the door ... ?).
hail_eris
06/21/2005, 11:02
Well, this confirms a few things:
Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman have signed to star in a second Batman movie, but love interest Katie Holmes has been dropped. Movie bosses are thrilled with the response to Batman Begins - it took $46.9 million in its first weekend at the US box office - and have snapped up the film's stars for a sequel. Bale as Batman was the first to put pen to paper, followed by Caine as butler Alfred and Freeman as Bruce Wayne's business associate Lucius Fox. But Holmes won't reprise her role as district attorney Rachel Dawes - reportedly because Warner Bros is angry her engagement to Tom Cruise has stolen media attention away from the movie. A source tells Pagesix.Com, "Everyone is in agreement that the movie's strength is with Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman." Adding of Holmes, "She won't be in the sequel... the next romantic interest will be a much stronger actress. Warner is happy that people are now focusing on who'll be playing the Joker rather than Katie and Tom."
Gentlegamer
06/21/2005, 11:08
Where did you find that?
Pagesix.com, I'm guessing ...
hail_eris
06/21/2005, 11:47
It was in this morning's industry update on IMDB. They also confirmed the Alan Cumming story on X3 and the real story behind Scarlett Johannson's bailing on Mission Impossible 3...
DOOMSTRIKER
06/21/2005, 12:17
oh man i hope they get a complete lunatic to play The Joker, i used to think that Jim Carey would have made an awesome Joker, but he's getting older now, and he played The Riddler in that "other" Bat movie, but after thinking about it, Carey wouldnt be able to capture the "Raving Loony" aspect of the J man, instead it would be a little less dark and a little more cartoony. so i figure the best way to do it, is to get an actual madman, from a loony bin, and paint his face up and just have him act natural, they could keep him under lock and key and security gaurds supervision (like hanibal lecter, all strapped to a table and with a mouth gaurd) it could be a Hollywood first...............
ok so im just ####### around, but really though i hope they can find an actor who looks the part, and can act totally insane
ok so im just ####### around, but really though i hope they can find an actor who looks the part, and can act totally insane
Crispin.[/ur;] [url=http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/1006/Events/1006/glover_crispin2?path=pgallery&path_key=Glover,%20Crispin]Glover. (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/hh/0000417/HH/0000417/8x10.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Glover,%20Crispin)
Retry ...
Crispin. (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/hh/0000417/HH/0000417/8x10.jpg?path=pgallery&path_key=Glover,%20Crispin) Glover. (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/granitz/1006/Events/1006/glover_crispin2?path=pgallery&path_key=Glover,%20Crispin)
DOOMSTRIKER
06/21/2005, 12:28
hmmm. that guy could work, but can he act like a nutcase?
(im saving that picture so's i can screw with it in paint and see what he would look like with a big ol' red smile)
DOOMSTRIKER
06/21/2005, 12:32
cant save any of those picture to my computer, wierd :ermm:
Have you seen the Thin Man in Charlie's Angels? You know, the wierd, martial artist psycho they're always chasing down? That's him.
He's also known for his role in Williard, which I haven't seen.
DOOMSTRIKER
06/21/2005, 12:37
Williard?
Willard, that movie with the rats?
andrewtarius
06/21/2005, 12:39
cant save any of those picture to my computer, wierd :ermm:Yeah, they try to trick you, but If you know how to work around things
Dark One (http://i.imdb.com/Photos/HH/0000417/8x10.jpg)
Smiling One (http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/1006/glover_crispin2.jpg)
hail_eris
06/21/2005, 13:00
He played George McFly in Back to the Future. That was probably his least twitchy role, if that tells you anything.
DOOMSTRIKER
06/21/2005, 13:16
well after slaping some white, red, and green on him, he does look kinda Jokery, and i dont remember much of anything from the Back to the Future movies, because i hated them, alot
St-Dumas
06/21/2005, 14:09
Dumas has a crazy thought.
What if Talia comes to avenge her father's death? Wouldn't that be something.
Other possible villains could be Ventriliquist/Scarface, Hugo Strange, Lady Shiva or Hush.
And how can you hate the Back to the Future Trilogy? Those were the greatest time-travel movies ever, next to Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure.
DOOMSTRIKER
06/21/2005, 14:12
i hate them because they are hella goofy, family movies.
and i have never liked the whole family movie thing.
but hey, to each his own right?
Gentlegamer
06/22/2005, 12:49
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050622e.php
Actress Katie Holmes has been rumoured to have been dropped from a "Batman Begins (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050622e.php#)" sequel according to sources for Page Six (http://www.pagesix.com/). Movie bosses have been thrilled with the response to "Batman (http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050622e.php#) Begins", but Holmes wont reprise her role as district attorney Rachel Dawes reportedly because Warner Bros. is angry her engagement to Tom Cruise has stolen media attention away from the movie.
"Everyone is in agreement that the movie's strength is with Christian Bale, Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman. [Holmes] won't be in the sequel ... the next romantic interest will be a much stronger actress. Warner is happy that people are now focusing on who'll be playing the Joker rather than Katie and Tom" says a source for the paper. Even amongst its swath of positive reviews, many cited Holmes performance as the one flaw amongst otherwise unanimously acclaimed performances.
Meanwhile, Director Chris Nolan apparently spoke with Laceby News about whether he'd come back to direct a sequel - "If David's writing it, Christian's still Batman, and everyone else is returning.....me not returning would be like the only student of a graduating class skipping the big day to wash the car" said the British helmer.
He dropped some other hints such as "Like Begins, one clear cut villain isn't the plan [though]" and the likelihood of Robin appearing "The studio wasn't interested in Robin. We weren't either. This is a young Batman, so Robin's a few films....not for a few pictures anyway. #### Grayson's still in a crib somewhere. I seriously doubt I will even be involved when Robin's in the franchise" says Nolan.
St-Dumas
06/22/2005, 15:48
NO ROBIN?!?!?!
I can live with that. And i'm glad they're bringing in a new romantic lead. Katie Holmes dumped Batman! The only one who's allowed to dump Batman is Talia! Ah well.
Gentlegamer
06/23/2005, 07:09
Hmmm, that might just dovetail even more with JacinB's theory that she is or was supposed to be Talia . . .
hail_eris
06/24/2005, 19:01
Now here's some news from the good people at IMDB:
British actor Paul Bettany has joined the race to play Batman's nemesis The Joker in a planned sequel to Batman Begins. Director Christopher Nolan left no doubt The Joker would feature heavily in the next Batman installment when the villain, formerly played by Jack Nicholson, left a calling card in the final scene of the box office smash hit. And now Batman fansites are desperately trying to make sure producers pick the right man for the job. Crispin Glover was an early favorite, along with Star Wars' Mark Hamill, who provides the voice of The Joker in the Batman animated series and Aussie actor Lachy Hulme, and now Bettany has got the fans' vote. An insider tells website Batman-on-film.Com that the A Beautiful Mind star is officially in the running to play the evil character.
Bettany played the ship's surgeon in Master and Commander, the imaginary friend in A Beautiful Mind, and (and here's the good bit) Chaucer in A Knight's Tale. He's got the look and the right body for it (Nicholson always struck me as a bit pudgy). This guy could be a *very* good Joker...
Am I the only one who thinks Johnny Depp would make a good Joker?
DOOMSTRIKER
06/25/2005, 16:08
Now here's some news from the good people at IMDB:
British actor Paul Bettany has joined the race to play Batman's nemesis The Joker in a planned sequel to Batman Begins. Director Christopher Nolan left no doubt The Joker would feature heavily in the next Batman installment when the villain, formerly played by Jack Nicholson, left a calling card in the final scene of the box office smash hit. And now Batman fansites are desperately trying to make sure producers pick the right man for the job. Crispin Glover was an early favorite, along with Star Wars' Mark Hamill, who provides the voice of The Joker in the Batman animated series and Aussie actor Lachy Hulme, and now Bettany has got the fans' vote. An insider tells website Batman-on-film.Com that the A Beautiful Mind star is officially in the running to play the evil character.
Bettany played the ship's surgeon in Master and Commander, the imaginary friend in A Beautiful Mind, and (and here's the good bit) Chaucer in A Knight's Tale. He's got the look and the right body for it (Nicholson always struck me as a bit pudgy). This guy could be a *very* good Joker...
as long as he doesnt use a british accent for the Joker, then he would do just fine probably, oh, and he has to be able to laugh like a maniac
as long as he doesnt use a british accent for the Joker, then he would do just fine probably, oh, and he has to be able to laugh like a maniac
Why not?
Hollywood's been programming you guys for years, employing Brits to play the role of villains.
I'd half expect people to think villain everytime you hear an English voice.
Wow, chip on your shoulder? Plenty of British heroes in movies too. Alfred for example in this last Batman movie, and James Bond, and Robin Hood, and King Arthur, and Austion Powers... ok strike that last one. Ok, I know what you mean often British characters are stereotyped in Hollywood movies, but so is every nationality and race, so if we didn't stereotype you as butlers and spies you'd feel left out!!
Alfred for example in this last Batman movie
And who played Scarecrow, Ra's, and Falcone?
Of course Wayne and Gordon were also Brits, so that makes it 3-3.
But that aside, would Joker sounding British be that bad?
What accent is he meant to have?
Is it just that he always has a familiar accent in each individual imagination?
Yeas, pretty much the entire main cast of Batman begins was British. So no need to get uptight. :P
Considering Joker is in an American city, and its never been mentioned that he's an immigrant, he should have an American accent. But I have no doubt that a Brit can do a convincing American accent. Bale and Wilkinson both proved that.
St-Dumas
06/25/2005, 21:26
Am I the only one who thinks Johnny Depp would make a good Joker?
I don't know. JD is a good actor and a pretty boy. In Pirates of the Caribbean he was crazy, but i've never seen him play the over-the-top crazy that is necessary for the character of the Joker.
We'll have to see if he pulls it off in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
AleksandarN
06/26/2005, 04:19
I would love to see johnnydepp as Joker. IMHO he would be perfect
DOOMSTRIKER
06/26/2005, 14:47
Depp probably could pull off the Joker, pretty good, but there are probably at least a couple people who could do it better, and if they find one of those people, ill be very happy, a perfect Joker would make the whole movie for me, even if the rest of the movie is only sub par
michiganj24
06/26/2005, 16:04
They already have someone who could be a great joker but hes playing Batman
I doubt Johnny Depp would play Joker unless he could find a way to re-involve Tim Burton in the franchise. The two seem to be inextricably linked ...
diggergig1
06/27/2005, 10:52
I'd like to see man-bat featured as a confused man-made villan who redeems himself by helping bats somehow, as a secondary story to the main villain, Joker (yawn) or whoever.
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