Is it just me or is everyone in the trading forum...

[Ultimate2099]

Is it just me or is everyone in the trading forum going for the same 10 figures?

It's really hard to trade stuff when no matter what people have to trade they all want the same figs: KC Supes, KC Green Lantern, KC Flash, Thor, Iron Man, Silver Surfer, Hal Jordon etc etc.

My favorite are the ones who have like Wasp, Giantman and The Leader and then list only the top five figs in their wants section.

Sorry. Just felt like venting. I'm all done now. :speechles



{hey, what a great topic for the *new* Trading Forum General Discussion! - azs}

[2Face]

I agree! It has been extremely difficult for me to find a Despero because of this(Thanks pyrimid!). What frustrates me more than people wanting those figures is that they seem to expect that their U Leader (which they don't want) is worth the big figures. Sure they have the right to ask, but do they really expect people to respond?

The other frustration I have is people who have no feedback posts trade threads thinking that they won't have to send first. My first trades were all with people who had lots of feedback/long positive trade threads because I knew that I would be expected to send first.

[2Face]

I didn't even realize there was a Trading general discussion thread until this was moved.

[Ultimate2099]

Cool. This is the 3rd ever thread in this forum.

[Marlow]

I only found this becuase it was moved too!

Getting a KC-GL would be nice, but I can not even find someone who wants to trade a Mr Freeze mail away. Did no-one bother buying it? There has always been tons of the other mail-away figures. Oh well at least I managed to trade to get some 3D Objects!

[ohoni]

Well, the trick is, get in early. For example, my own want list only includes figures that I want (sorry about that). At this point, that would mostly be the "big figures" like the KCs and such, but when a new set comes out, my list is MUCH more broad, since I'm trying to pick up the figures I want from that set. For example, when FF hits, I expect to have a dozen REVs and about a half-dozen Us and LEs added to my list, until such time as I get them all. Once I have them all (like most of my lower end Legacy wants), they come off the list, so if you want my figures, you'd have to act fast. ;)

[Trader2699]

It does stand to reason, after all...

These figures that "everyone" wants are someof the most expensive and coveted in the game. Not everyone who posts can buy a case of every expansion when it comes out, and after a set has sold out (esp. in the case of Legacy) it gets that much harder to get the "power" figures.

[Hellboy]

I too didn't know there was a "trading General Discussion" forum. we all learned something today.


but yeah. I have to agree with the sentiments of this thread. I want those clix too; and I'm not about to give up the few I have, but I have ALOT of things to offer, and I'm looking for alot of stuff. I'm willing to trade in other's favor alot of the time; but I can't trade with them at all if the only things they want are a handfull of clix that almost nobody has and everybody wants.

Oh well. Its just a waiting game. eventually something newer and shinier will come out and yesterday's "impossible to find" clix will become more readily available.

[heroclixcrazy1]

i'd have to agree with Hellboy, sometimes you just got to wait. Like me i've got a ton of nons for hypertime and nobody but nobody hardly wants those unless their big "name" characters and i couldn't even purchase legacy in my town b/c the store where i get my clix never got any!!

so i figured i'd have to pick them up on the secondary market.......until i ran into someone new to heroclix that only played DC and had a ton of legacy extras and was looking for a ton of hypertime.

so the deals are there.

but what bothers me most is its very hard to find nons for trade its always LE's, Uniques etc.

Maybe there should be a sub-forum for trading nons.

[thalljoben75]

for me it seems that people want the stuff i have but they want to give up too little for it.

i was offered an oracle and a martian manhunter for a k.c. gl and an ultimate thor...?

who would take a trade like that?

and why?

why would someone even make that kind of offer?

[Wyldstaar]

i was offered an oracle and a martian manhunter for a k.c. gl and an ultimate thor...?
who would take a trade like that?
and why?
why would someone even make that kind of offer?

Because you might say yes. The worst you can do is say no, and you've already done that. The person survived your scorn and didn't have to wonder what would have happened if he'd just made the offer. I once traded someone a Rookie Captain America for a Unique Quasar (back when Quasar was a good figure to have). You never know what some people are going to agree to, and you'll never find out unless you ask.

Relax, things will pick back up in a huge way next week.

[heroclixcrazy1]

hey mabye someone may need a rookie Ridlder way more than they need an unique Quasar. As to why who cares, if someone is willing to make the deal someone just got a sweet deal!!!! now if someone is trying to take advantage of newbie i don't approve of that but most people trading have some idea of what a figure is worth and if they don't. then they need to do some research.

and wyldstaar is right you never know unless you ask and what harm was done in that. after all who knows the guy your asking may have surplus of uniques and just needs that R Blob to complete their entire collection or team :laugh:

[thugit]

What I hate is when I list figures for sale (cheaper than you can find on Ebay) and people try and talk the price down.



People always undervalue what they want and overvalue what they have.....

[thalljoben75]

like i said before, i understand the idea of 'might as well ask' but at what point does it stop being innocent and become a--hole-ish?

i just don't know. i post for people not to p.m. me with offers and they do it any way.

i say i am only interested in figures abc and get offers for figs xyz.

i say i'll entertain all offers. i mean it. i'll hear the offers out. but if you see an offer that was rejected, why make the exact same offer that some one else made?

again another useful point for having people post in one place, where they can all see what was not a good enough offer before, so they don't make it again.

but i guess i am just being unrealistic.

not everyone is simply looking for a decent trade, and many are looking for insane trades.

and they will only get them by putting in the time and work to find other people who are just too desperate for a figure to care what they are giving up.

so i think i'll change my view on this and i'll just keep telling the no-go offers no go.

[Marlow]

It partly depends on how much people want figure X.

I have send what I consider reasonable offers to people and got snotty emails back saying why di you make such a poor offer.

Also when Ultimates came out I could not trade Nightcrawler for Thor one-on-one. Then three months later someone who was desperate for NC offered Thor and two other figures.

[thalljoben75]

and see, for me it is one thing to just try, but when there are other offers of the same type posted and declined, why try a worse offer or for less stuff?

that is the kind of thing that gets under my skin a lot too.

i post what stuff i am interested in.

i get offers for things that are not what i am looking for, nor are they even worth what i have in the first place.

it does get annoying getting a p.m. box full of that kind of garbage after specifically saying not to pm me with offers any way.

i really think people just don't read the posts, and they look to see if what they want is there, then they do whatever they were going to do anyway.

[Marlow]

i really think people just don't read the posts, and they look to see if what they want is there, then they do whatever they were going to do anyway.

Propably. I wanted your GL, but as I did not have anything on your wants list I did not bother posting anything.

It is an unfortunate side-effect of all the good trading you can do here (and there is a lot) you have to put up with all the idiots.

I have manged to get almost every figure I wanted by being patient enough.

[tom730]

It's a "market" where the values are very subjective.

I've given WAY more than "e-bay value" for figs I really wanted, and have gotten WAY MORE than equal value in trades from folks who just really wanted something I had!

Just be patient, be reasonable, and don't take it personally if someone thinks their stuff is worth way more than yours...

I have a lot of fun trading here, almost as much as playing. I get turned down a lot, turn a lot of folks down, sometimes go back and forth with counter-offers if I think it's worthwhile, and have gotten almost all the Us and LEs I need a s a result.

[qc_mohawks]

What I hate is when I list figures for sale (cheaper than you can find on Ebay) and people try and talk the price down.



People always undervalue what they want and overvalue what they have.....

like you never have done something similar.... :rolleyes:

it is in a persons best interest to try and haggle, if you can get something cheaper great...if the guy doesnt want to deal then you can either buy it at his price or wait it out. a patient buyer always wins out.

[thalljoben75]

and i guess that is kind of where i'm coming from now.

i'll wait out all offers that are less than i am willing to accept, and just keep declining offers. eventually someone is going to want to offer me what i am looking for.

i'll have great grand kids by then, but hey, eventually, right?

[Stormwolf1978]

it's difficult sometimes whe what a person is seeking is limited in scope. I find I don't have what a lot of people want, mostly because I have very few LEs.

[Ultimate2099]

See my thing is this. If you've got only medium and low level LE's and Uniques why are you only asking for high level stuff. The truth is when someone has an extra high end unique or LE he is probably gonna try and trade it for another high end piece. I can understand going into a thread where someone has Superman for trade and has a long list of wants so you say how about these 3-4 medium level uniques. The worst he can say is no. But to see thread after thread with not so good haves and only high level wants go by (usually with no interest) I just want to scream.

An example: (this is fake)

H:
Silver Swan
Hellboy
Darkseid
Thanos
Vision
LE Wade Wilson
LE Alex Summers

W:
KC Superman
KC Green Lantern
Thor
Ares
LE Silver Surfer
LE Hal Jordon

(I might even trade 2 of my uniques for one of my wants)


The thing that is frustrating about that, is maybe someone wants Vision or Thanos and they can offer you a Metallo or JSA Flash. But since you only put up ridiculous wants all you've done is clutter the board up.

[thalljoben75]

and see, for me it is that my haves are the 'high end' pieces, but my wants are lower high end to mid range and low.

but i keep getting a lot of offers for only low stuff really, as i guess people don't want to give up their 'good' stuff for my 'better' stuff.

i have a very clearly outlined list of what i am looking for, and i keep getting offers for things other than my wants.

i know people think it is 'worth the effort' to ask. but if an offer is declined for not being what i want , offering more stuff that i don't want is not likely to swing my decision.

even if the offer is for a lot of stuff. and i want to be polite about it, but it is exhausting, you know?

i want the pieces i want. i will only trade for the pieces i 'want'. i will not trade for pieces that i don't want, no matter how many of them there are. because if i did, i'd be stuck with a bunch of figures that nobody else really wants and i'd be that much further away from getting what i really want.

is it so far fetched to expect people to really get that?

if these offers were sooo good that i'd trade a better piece for a lot of not so good pieces, why not trade someone else allll of those not so good pieces for some of the mid range pieces that i'm interested in and then trade me like that?

because next to nobody wants those pieces in the first place.

i even added extra wants to help people fill in gaps on offers, and instead i get offered all of the least of my wants for the best stuff from my haves.

is it just not worth the effort?

[egospark]

Trading is all part of the fun, but it is a waiting game for some pieces. Not too terribly long ago, the monster fig that was fetching $50 or more was Thanos. I simply refuse to spend that much on a fig. And eventually, I made a decent trade for him.

Recently, I traded a KC Flash for the Silver Surfer LE. We were both very happy with the trade and that's the whole point. I don't understand some of the snickering people do because they feel they got away with something. I guess some people feel a need to feel better, just as some people feel a need to consider every offer made as being too low.

What wears me out the most is all the trades for LEs, SRs, uniques and masterpiece stuff. I guess the REV trades happen at stores, but REVs are the heart of the game. (why call them "Nons" as if they are beneath you?) I'd much rather trade ten REV figs with someone than a single unique swap, but the trading methods of most is unlikely to change.

[heroclixcrazy1]

See my thing is this. If you've got only medium and low level LE's and Uniques why are you only asking for high level stuff. The truth is when someone has an extra high end unique or LE he is probably gonna try and trade it for another high end piece. I can understand going into a thread where someone has Superman for trade and has a long list of wants so you say how about these 3-4 medium level uniques. The worst he can say is no. But to see thread after thread with not so good haves and only high level wants go by (usually with no interest) I just want to scream.

An example: (this is fake)

H:
Silver Swan
Hellboy
Darkseid
Thanos
Vision
LE Wade Wilson
LE Alex Summers

W:
KC Superman
KC Green Lantern
Thor
Ares
LE Silver Surfer
LE Hal Jordon

(I might even trade 2 of my uniques for one of my wants)


The thing that is frustrating about that, is maybe someone wants Vision or Thanos and they can offer you a Metallo or JSA Flash. But since you only put up ridiculous wants all you've done is clutter the board up.


Hey i saw a post in the Trade Thread that said he was offered a KC Superman for a Thanos and thought that a lousy trade :eek: i would of jumped on that trade. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

Secondly(not directed at you Ultimate2099, just a statement) if people are offering stuff other than your wants then don't say you're willing to entertain other offers. B/C then basically all your doing is hoping someone offers you something good for your junk. which is why i think this thread got started or maybe it was b/c someone was having a difficult finding stuff other then certain LE' & Uniques :rolleyes:

[thugit]

like you never have done something similar.... :rolleyes:

it is in a persons best interest to try and haggle, if you can get something cheaper great...if the guy doesnt want to deal then you can either buy it at his price or wait it out. a patient buyer always wins out.



....said the specific person I was talking about.


It didn't seem to work for you. :)

I got the price I wanted for my figures (you know, the fair price that I asked).

A patient seller always wins out.

[thalljoben75]

i went ahead and broke down and bought the figures i wanted. and got them for around what i figured their values to be ( martian manhunter was 27.00 and oracle was only 12.00 so i actually came out a little better than what i was giving them for trade value.)

and while i shelled out the cash for it, i didn't lose current/fair market value on my pieces nor did i get a trade where i didn't even get what i set out to get.

so while it may have hurt some of my trading on here to avoid getting shafted even a little bit, i don't regret it. i do very little trading on here any way. i would have like to have been able to have a mutually beneficial trade with some folks around here, but too many just didn't want to offer better trades, and those that earnestly wanted to offer fair or better trades just didn't have what i wanted. or they didn't want to trade those pieces, any way.

i got offered a manhunter and an oracle for a k.c. gl.

gl goes for almost an extra 20.00 over what i paid for the two together! so why would i want to trade down like that? to make a friend? come one, that is not how to make a friend any way. a friend wouldn't try to get the the better end of a deal. i wasn't even trying to come out ahead, and was willing to even accept coming out a little bit behind, but 20.00 is more than a little bit. we are talking 2-3 more low end pieces at least!

maybe more by ol dut's prices (though i paid less for my figs that ol dut's prices any way, so there is a swing involved.)

people should just suck it up and say " okay, i want a good piece. so i may have to offer more than it is worth to get it. "

not " gosh i want a good piece. i better try to talk him down on it."

that just seems to be an insulting way to do things.

when dealing with friends, i frequently give them better ends of deals, because it is my choice to offer it. they don't ask for it.

and a real friend shouldn't ask for it. so when dealing with total strangers, the desire to not get screwed should be high. but not the desire to try to take advantage of some one.

and trying to offer a phasing gl for either a k.c. supes or k.c. gl is just smack worthy :)

why bother typing that kind of offer up? the only reason is b/c someone wants to hope that they can get some sucker for a great piece for a moderate piece.

and i think that is the part that i find really irritating.

to get an offer like that from some one with a high trader rating means that they know something about trade values, so when they offer a really low offer, they are trying to get over.

and that makes me a little irritated.

[Marlow]

i got offered a manhunter and an oracle for a k.c. gl.

gl goes for almost an extra 20.00 over what i paid for the two together! so why would i want to trade down like that?

Not everyone works on Evil-Bay values.

GL is $50 figure, MM is $30 and Oracle is $15. You manged to get yours a little cheaper - Seems about fair on value for a trade.

To me that is a good deal.

You were getting two high want Uniques for one of your High Want Uniques and it is only costing you a couple of dollars in postage.

[thalljoben75]

see, if there were nothing else out there that could have been used to close the gap between the 2 sides of the trade, i'd agree a little more with you. but since there are tons of nons(though i am only interested in a few) and feats and pogs and bfc's, it isn't a fair trade to me, and for that reason i declined it, and a i stated, it worked out better for me in the long run.
i don't fault people for trying to get a good deal, but that is a two way street, ya know?

i have seen recently where martian went for less than 20.00 and where gl went for mor than 60.00. that is a huge swing, dictated by current demand, i know.

and while these prices are not typical, there were multiples in each price range. so it wasn't just a one time fluke. and that means to me that there is definitely a higher demand for the out of print gl than there is for the out of print martian.

i guess if i was desperate for them, i'd understand someone making that kind of trade. but i am not, nor was i at the time desperate for either of them. and that makes me a tough person to trade with sometimes, as i said, if we are already friends, i don't mind hooking you up. ( i once gave a way a superman k.c. to a friend just because he hadn't pulled one and i had pulled quite a few. not because he'll give me something later, but because we are cool like that. but many of the people on here try to be shrewd traders, and that forces me to have to be as well. and again, i see no reason to make a trade that i am not completely happy with. there is no reason to settle for as close as i can get, when i can simply look for another deal.

tonight a martian sold on ebay for 38.00. that is way high for him, but there people fighting to get him.

i wouldn't pay that much for him. so i didn't. but somebody else did. because while he wasn't worth that much to me, he is to other people. and when i know what i can get for a green lantern, i have no desire to trade him a way for less than that by leaps and bounds. and that means that if he is not worth that much to some people, then they don't need to trade for mine. the beauty of america: our laws tell us what we cannot do, whereas other places tell us what we can do.

that means that if i don't want to trade, then i don't have to, and that goes the same for everyone else in america that i know of.

basically i see it like this to be blunt:

my figure is worth more, so i don't have to settle for less than it is worth. someone will want it bad enough to trade me for it's value, and we will both be happy.

until then, i'll be holding on to him and biding my time, just fine ;)

i don't like sounding like a jerk, but it is true: the offers i have gotten are almost all too low for a gl and most everybody knows it by looking at it. few people would be saying to themselves ' i wish i had a gl. i'd trade him for that i a heartbeat.'
likely they are thinking ' hell, no, i wouldn't make that trade, but if some one can get someone else to do it then more power to them.'

i on the other hand think that a figure is 'worth' the middle ground on prices people are paying for it, not just the average. because averages get thrown off way to hard by extreme prices. but middle ground only fluctuates a little bit usually. if that makes since for those of you out there scratching their heads. ( it is easier to guage an extreme price and remove it from the middle ground, whereas an average includes all prices, by nature.)

hey marlow: you wanna trade me your k.c. gl still minty in bag for my played with oracle and played with martian manhunter?

;)

[Marlow]

i have seen recently where martian went for less than 20.00 and where gl went for mor than 60.00. that is a huge swing, dictated by current demand, i know.

Doing an ebay serach I see seven recent KCGL sales between 41.50 and 61.00 bucks the average was 50.22 US. You got a cheap martian, some one else got an expensive one.

it isn't a fair trade to me, and for that reason i declined it,

That is where we differ. I think two figures that would get an average of $45 on ebay are worth one figure that has an average of $50, because to me that is close enough and I am getting figure advantage without it costing me cash (postage is minimal)

You say you "don't like sounding like a jerk" well holding out for five bucks of feats/REV's makes you sound like one to me! That is my opinion. I wish you luck with your trading. I would also be interested to know, if you ever manage to trade it away, what you get for your KC GL?


that means that if i don't want to trade, then i don't have to, and that goes the same for everyone else in america that i know of.

That is true. I have made deals to get what I wanted that have had nothing to do with ebay value. I have also turned down people who were trying to fleece me out of several high-end figures in exchange for one.


hey marlow: you wanna trade me your k.c. gl still minty in bag for my played with oracle and played with martian manhunter?
;)
I already have Oracle and my GL is in the post (to me) at the moment, and if it is in the bag it will not be five minites after it turns up! Now if you had an FF Wolverine I would entertain making you an offer...

[K-ness]

Can't help but feel that this thread's complaints would also include me with my U Dr. Doom needs... I decided to retool my trade list, offering things from my own personal collection (yeah, I know what I have to trade with is awful, but I would be willing to trade upwards of 6 to 8 pieces from it for Doom; probably even more).

Still, people have to try something to see if it works, no matter how off the wall it may be. I just talked to a guy about my extra Hector Hall, and I traded it for three uniques I didn't have.

I managed to pick up an LE Xplosion Elektra pretty cheap (and I don't even want the piece).

Other times I post that I want Catgirl (who I've finally managed to obtain), and I'm met with absolutely no interest. I actually think I should add in my LEs that are without their boxes... would probably be beneficial, even though they aren't really worth anything either.

And for anyone who cares, I still really need a U Dr. Doom.... (Sure, I can get the purple, but the regular version? Nooooo..... :p )

[thalljoben75]

like i said, some people may not careone way or the other.

i had a friend point out to me sometime ago that when dealing with collectables, one should consider another factor when 'wheeling and dealing' :

1) always try to avoid trading down. sometimes it cannot be helped, but when you do, you are depreciating the value of your own item. if you do trade down, don't be afraid to ask for more than your item is worth, as you are taking the worse end of an investment, so this way, over time your new items may still be collectively worth the old item.

2) always try to trade up when possible. always be willing to offer at least 10% more than an item is worth if you are trying to trade up. this helps the other person not lose as much value on their new items that are more likely to depreciate. and it also helps most people agree to a trade for items that are worth less than their own item.

3) never, ever make a trade where you are not totally happy with the outcome. if you have to give up something you are not prepared to give up, don't do it! any respectful trader will recognize this and back off on the trade any way.

4) never try to force someone to make a trade they are not completely comfortable with. it will hurt your chances of trading with that person again in the future if they feel as though they were forced or being badgered over a trade.

5) never try to take advantage of a person. that means that getting more for your expensive figure is a good investment option, since lesser valued figures generally drop lower in value than high end pieces do. trying to persuade some one that doesn't know the value of an item to trade their expensive item for your inexpensive item while you know what pices are worth, is simply wrong, and eventually the other person will find out. getting the upper hand in a single trade is rarely worth cutting off a trade option in the future.

these are great trade guidelines!
using ebay for pricing is not a bad way to go, though there are those that disagree. i understand that. which leads to ...

6) only trade with people that agree with you on values. a trade made where people cannot agree on the value of an item is a bad idea. someone usually will feel ripped off, and that causes problems.

and what exactly are you interested in my wolverine for? why marlow, are you suggesting that you want to trade me a k.c. gl for my wolverine? why, don't you know that gl is worth more than this wolvie is? in good concscience i couldn't accept such an offer. wolvie will go down in price even more, while gl may drop slowly, but will still settle way higher than wolvie ever will.

perhaps you have some other items i could add to the offer to balance it out a little more in your favor, since you are giving up the more expensive figure. my resources are not unlimited however, so perhaps, we can find a common ground with your wants and my haves..?

and that is a slightly over dramatic presentation of how a trade of that nature should look. :)

[Marlow]

and what exactly are you interested in my wolverine for? why marlow, are you suggesting that you want to trade me a k.c. gl for my wolverine?


I am an X-man fan, and no I am not offering you a KC GL.
I want to play with mine and get bored of it before I trade it away. So if you want MINE to add to your trade list you will have to wait until at least next summer!

[Marlow]

The rules are good. Expecially number three.
It is nice to see someone trying to obay rule #5.

I think we have wandered from the point somewhat. You stated that you were not getting any reasonable offers for your GL and gave one example. Now maybe the rest of the offers you got were trash but I was trying to explain why I thought the one example was a fair deal.

[Stormwolf1978]

and what exactly are you interested in my wolverine for? why marlow, are you suggesting that you want to trade me a k.c. gl for my wolverine? why, don't you know that gl is worth more than this wolvie is? in good concscience i couldn't accept such an offer. wolvie will go down in price even more, while gl may drop slowly, but will still settle way higher than wolvie ever will.


and this is how a secondary market has hurt fun collectibles.

Baseball cards used to be about buying 10 cards and a stick of gum for 25 cents, and trading players you didn't want to friends that wanted them and had players you liked. Then value began to be assigned to them, and now it's more about getting the rookie card of a hot player, because it's worth a bunch of money, and you might be able to sell it for a profit someday.

Heroclix is affected the same. Rather than being able to trade a character you don't want/need for one you do, everyone is using E-Bay as a guideline for what amount of worth they need to get for their figure, rather than what the worth is to themselves. I try to trade based on playability and what I really want. I really wanted a KC superman, so I traded both an Ares and a Loki for him. Why? Because Ares and Loki were extras I didn't need, and that's what it took for the trade with the guy. I could have sold the figures, and been able to buy a Supes with some money on the side more than likely, but I didn't care because I got what I was after, and both sides were happy with the deal. I traded the same guy a Martian Manhunter for a General Zod. By E-Bay standards, I got ripped off. But by my standards, I got rid of an extra for a piece I didn't have.

I guess what i'm trying to say is this. These are pieces of plastic, pieces for a game. They are meant to be enjoyed, not speculated on. If you want a business atmosphere, use E-Bay. I wish the realms could stay a friendly place to trade, not where everyone is looking to get the better end of the deal rather than a deal where both sides win.

[Marlow]

I guess what i'm trying to say is this. These are pieces of plastic, pieces for a game. They are meant to be enjoyed, not speculated on. If you want a business atmosphere, use E-Bay. I wish the realms could stay a friendly place to trade, not where everyone is looking to get the better end of the deal rather than a deal where both sides win.

Yes. Someone else started up a thread about cutthroat trading!
There seems to be a lot more chaff that wheat in the trading forums these days.

If it carries on I may just start selling all my spares on Evil-bay and buying what I want. It would be quicker...

[thalljoben75]

how long would hero clix have lasted if it was not a COLLECTABLE game? what makes it COLLECTABLE?

the fact that not all pieces are created equally makes it COLLECTABLE.

the fact that some pieces are not as readily available as others makes it collectable. you don't like that, then trade off all of your uniques for playable commons. one for one. that way you start to kill the value on the uniques, and you get rid of those pieces of plastic that hold no value.

the reality of it is simple: wizkids created the game to make money. and the desire to have is a strong motivator. thus the collectors come on board. the desire to win while having fun is a strong motivator. thus players come on board.

speculating on a pieces value is in no way anything other than what the game was intended for.

otherwise we'd be playing chess, or with preselected teams.

and the fact that some figures are better play pieces than others (read : easier to play) is where value goes up. why trade a figure for one figure when some one else is offering you 2?

many trades for me are about my bottom line. as they are for almost all of you: how many more packs do i have to buy to get the one figure that i want? it would be easier to just try to find some one who has what i want and wants what i have, and then swap.

a great theory. but some figures are proven to be easier to pull out of a pack. so now, the frequency of the figure in question comes in to play: if i let go of this figure, what is the likelihood of me pulling another out of a pack? if it is low, then maybe i don't want to get rid of it. if i don't want to get rid of it, what next?

so people offer more stuff for it, because to some people it is worth more than to others. so it becomes a better trade, when presnted with getting the exact and singular piece you are looking for, or for getting the exact piece and more, as this in turn leads to ease of aquiring more of your wants at a later time.

there is nothing wrong with expecting fair market value for a figure.

if you think there is, don't deal with people that do. it will only damage your relationship when you don't want to trade a fair market value for a figure, but instead want to trade a play value instead. ( again, i was once offered an e batman hyper time for a unique flash or something. if you don't see what is wrong with that, then we don't have too much else to discuss on the topic ;) )

[Stormwolf1978]

Well, keeping that in mind, of course there are guidelines. but holding out for a complete down-to-the-grit point of what your pieces concieved price should be isn't right either. And price doesn't necessarily translate into a better-playing piece. KC Batman rolls about $20-30 depending on the day, and I would much rather use a V Dagger, she'll do more for my team. I'm just saying that it gets hard to make deals with others when they hold stringent to that E-Bay price. If I have an extra KC Supes in my collection, that is doing nothing but gathering dust, I would gladly trade him off for a few pieces I could use, price point doesn't need apply.

[thalljoben75]

ahh, but what if it is your last one?

see, this is my last supes. i don't want to trade him, but i know he may help me get what i want otherwise.

that means that getting exactly what i want or extremely close to it is important. same thing for thor. i play ultimates, and i know what he goes for roughly.

so when people try to say 'thor/superma/gl isn't worth that much, they almost all want to treat their lower play valued figures at their highest values.

see the issue?

so when i get offered 2 mail ins and a vet for a thor, i do get annoyed. we all know that thor is worth more than that. so why hope that i'll take that offer, when i turned down the same offer 2 posts ahead of yours?

and then to act like a feat is going to close that gap is just naive. which is one's right. just like it is my right to hold out till someone has what i want, and wants what i have, and we agree to the values of our respective figures and trade accordingly.

and if the concern is that 'penny pinching attitude', then why not offer more than the figure is 'worth' if value is a non-issue?

because you want your own figures to be worth something too.

pure and simple. maybe my mistake was in hoping to find people that saw things my way in trading. i don't negotiate very often. i always start at fair. i work hard at it. and it is not fair for me to give up good for mediocre times 2.

it is not fair to try for you to get exactly what you want while i settle for less than i want.

it is not fair for you to try to tell me that i can't expect to get what my figure is worth in a deal.

especially when i have so many small wants that can be used to fill in the gaps.

[Marlow]

see, this is my last supes. i don't want to trade him, but i know he may help me get what i want otherwise.


If you do not want to trade him, why is he on your trade list?
I see lots of people putting up figures with lots of star's next to there name saying 'it will take lots to get this'.

Why? I can not be bothered to try and convince them to give up their prized possesions. I will find someone else who actually has the figure spare.

I have just been swapping my Cosmic Justice Uniques away for FF ones. I have had fun with them, but have not been using them for a while - I might as well get something more interesting.

[thalljoben75]

and that is part of why he is/was on my list:

i know there are some pieces that i wanted that i may have to give up something better to get. but that is a too way street. supes is one of the best figs in the game, and to trade him for some way waorse figs is just not going to get him from me or likely anybody at all.

but he was available to the right person for the right offer.

had i gotten an offer of martian manhunter and oracle for him prior to my getting them both by purchase, i'd have taken that kind of trade. but all of the offers for both oracle and manhunter wanted my green lantern, and i was not prepared to trade a gl at low value for an oracle and manhunter at high.

and i think that many of you folks miss that concept. sure value can shift. i expect that. manhunter has been fairly consistently dropping from his one time 40.00 price tag. oracle seems to occasionally break the 20.00 mark and then get close to the 30.00 mark in rare times. but by that same reasoning, gl has cleared 70 a couple of times. so even then, he is still worth more than the 2 of them together.

even supes has broken 60.00. he dropped down a great deal from his early days of clearing 100.00. but he is consistently around 50.00 now adays.

thor too.

manhunter is consistently around 20-25.00 oracle is consistently under 20.00. why eat a 5.00 loss when i can get cards thrown in to help make up the gap? if 5.00 is not a big deal, then give toss in 5.00 worth over his value.

don't see it that way though do you?

wonder why that is?

my point is simple:

my figure. i trade him for what i want or i don't trade him. your figures you can do the same with. does that make it hard to trade with someone that won't get ripped off in a trade? i bet it does. and to expect people to trade for something worth less than what you want from them is just being wrong. i find there to be something crooked in that kind of thinking trying to go in to a trade.

ebay is a fair judge of value for figures. price guides are rarely accurate to the average value of a figure. they are the average of what people tried to get for it, as opposed to ebay that tells what pople are willing to pay for it.

and that difference counts.

i bet if this was reversed and that if manhunter and oracle were both 40.00 figures people wouldn't be acting like the price doesn't matter then.

suddenly they'd be all about the add in more stuff to close the gap on the difference between that superman or gl and their figures.

you are entitled to your opinion. i won't deny that. but i will staunchly defend my right to my own as well.

and my opinion is that i am allowed to trade my figures when i want to and only when i choose to. if the other person doesn't want to trade,i don't try to force them to trade. i don't like to spend time digging through haves and wants lists looking for figures. i have other (not necessarily better, but other ) things to do, and i don't have time to go through 300 posts hoping to find someone that sees figure value like i do. that means that if you disagree, this is not a negotiation. it means we just don't trade.

5.00 is 5.00 as i see it, and if my end of a deal is coming up short, i do what is right and ask how can i close the difference, when that does occur. i expect people to do the same, not try to get me to give up something for less while they get to value their items at higher values.

and as it worked out, i got what i was looking for without having to give up any of my 'good figures' for it. i traded fairly and in my traed buddies favor by a bit in most cases, not because they asked for it but because i offered it. which is fine with me as then i am the one extending an offer of what else i would like to offer, not some one trying to tell m that my figures are not worth as much as their figures are.

and with my position clearly explained one last time, i am done with this thread.
thanks for the great conversations, but i don't intend to get agitated with any of you over a point of view any further.