View Full Version : Just saw Fantastic Four and...
WakandaMan
07/07/2005, 10:21
(Mild spoilers)
It was excellent! I must admit, I was worried. The Thing-suit, the Doom-with-powers, the youngish actors, but they totally nailed the characters.
Thing and Johnny were absolutely priceless- as they should be. They really captured them perfectly. I was impressed- really impressed. I'm not sure whether I'd just gotten used to the Thing look from the promo shots I'd seen, but it actually looked really good. Maybe it was just better in action. One thing is for sure, it was so MUCH better than if they'd gone with CGI instead. I can see why Chiklis demanded the suit, since the emotions were so real with him through it.
I really liked the little touches such as the rock scraping sounds from Thing, and the real sense of weight you got from him. And the stretching sounds from Reed. All the effects were brilliant.
On the downside, I'm not really sold on Doom having powers. I think they could've done it without that, and Doom just wasn't as huge as he should really be. Story wise, I can see how it worked out much neater that way (the final battle simply would not have worked had Doom been a guy in a suit) .But the movie was really about the 4, which was nice.
I'm VERY keen for a sequel!
WakandaMan
07/07/2005, 10:23
Oh, and on the inevitable Batman Begins comparisons, let me say, it is extremely hard to compare them. They may both be superheroes, but that's about where the similarity ends. Both were really great movies though.
Oh, and on the inevitable Batman Begins comparisons, let me say, it is extremely hard to compare them. They may both be superheroes, but that's about where the similarity ends. Both were really great movies though.
This is pretty much what I was expecting.
I'm looking forward to this...although by the time it reaches England, I'll be sick to
death of the "Why thank you, so are you" line.
How well did the Alicia character work?
Ill go see it but my expectations are reeeeeeeeeeeallly low
I saw it at midnite last night. Spoilers follow:
I loved it. You are right to say its a completely different movie from Batman Begins, but it works none-the-less. It's a very funny movie, yet they captured alot of the pathos of Ben Grimm, the way Reed can't figure out anything that can't be explained through an equation, Johnny's impetuous-ness. The funny thing is, except for Doom's origin and powers it was extremely true to the Silver Age comics, moreso than any other Marvel movie, or any comic movie since Superman really. I have minor complaints, such as Reed blamed Doom for the accident that gave them their powers, but it really didn't seem to be Doom's fault at all. And it seemed to have a very abrupt beginning. But overall, it was a really fun movie, and well worth the price of admission.
Sounds like the Reed blaming Doom for the accident thing comes out of Ultimate Fantastic Four origin. In that, Van Damme tampered with Reed's settings which caused the accident that gave them all their powers. Reed figured out what 'Doom' did, and then went to track him down to figure out how to reverse it.
WakandaMan
07/08/2005, 09:57
This is pretty much what I was expecting.
I'm looking forward to this...although by the time it reaches England, I'll be sick to
death of the "Why thank you, so are you" line.
How well did the Alicia character work?
Alicia was actually really good. I was a little taken aback by her being a black woman, but it wasn't much of a big deal really. In a sense, it made her character even more poignant, since she was different not just by being blind, but also by her skin colour.
One thing though, now that I've had a day to reflect on it- Doom really wasn't as impressive as he should've been. The Four were all nailed perfectly, but Doom is one of the best villians in Marvel comics. He should have real presence, but the actor just didn't manage it, at least for me. Or perhaps it was the script. This was a Doom of cheap parlor tricks, not one who had travelled to remote Tibet to study mysticism. He didn't even seem close to Reed on an intellectual level, resorting to eavesdropping in order to 'outsmart' Reed. Where was the posturing? Where was the arrogance? The Doom I know would never admit that "Reed is always right".
Ah well. I'm still pleased with it, since the four were so perfect.
Hey NotYou, I hope you don't live anywhere near yesterday's bombings. I'm praying that you and your family is all okay.
Thanks...as far as I'm aware I don't know anyone in it.
Will find out more tomorrow when I head into the centre to buy comics.
There are a lot of comic shops fairly close to some of the explosions.
venarnage
07/08/2005, 14:29
Wow. I creamed. It was so good.
Sounds like the Reed blaming Doom for the accident thing comes out of Ultimate Fantastic Four origin. In that, Van Damme tampered with Reed's settings which caused the accident that gave them all their powers. Reed figured out what 'Doom' did, and then went to track him down to figure out how to reverse it.
SPOILER
I know but in the movie Reed told Doom to abort the mission. This was as the cosmic storm was about 200 yards away and bearing down fast. There was no way to abort the mission, its not like they could have flown the space station away from it. If they'd explained later that Doom had fudged Reed's equations, then I'd accept it, but the way they explained it, Reed had no cause to blame Doom for the accident. the one thing he did was, he refused to help in Ben's rescue, which is very Doom-like.
I also thought Doom's motives for going evil were specious. I think maybe they were saying the cosmic storm made him insane, but its hard to say. I too would have liked to see Doom portrayed a bit more like a genius, on par with Reed, but oh well.
Nitpicks aside, I still loved the movie.
GAMBIT_99
07/08/2005, 16:51
i loved the movie and just like the rest of you i thought that doom could have been portrayed better. spoilers below
The ending does nudge that Doom will be back in the 2nd film and by the looks of it he will be the ruler of latveria and perhaps he will learn the mystic arts in latveria. Ireally loved the human torch, all of his lines were pricelesslikethe matercard thing or all the pranks he plays on Ben, the discovery of his powers and his tv apearances.
i liked it alot and it was definitely funny in alot of parts. it is definitely worth seeing in the theatre. and it was interesting seeing all the different character developments in the movie. go see it people!!!
cheers
St-Dumas
07/08/2005, 20:35
Spoilers
I loved it. My only complaint is how similar Doom was to Norman Osborn in Spider-Man; a billionaire with everything who loses it in an accident, then kills his stockholders. But still good. The way they beat Doom in the end showed each of the characters nature; Johnny's disregard for his own safety, Sue always trying to keep everyone safe, Reed being the idea man and Ben doing whatever is necessary to get the job done.
:devious: I went in fearing Alba's lack of acting ability and was pleasently suprised :surprised .The film definately captures the theme of the comics and I loved it!I strongly recommend it and can't wait for the DVD!!!!!!!!!!!! :classic:
Heinrich
07/08/2005, 23:27
I said this in the other thread so I'll just touch on it here. Alba was outstanding as was the rest of the FF actors. Mr. McMahon is a great actor, but was instructed to play a Doom nobody felt familiar with. He was still interesting to watch (Mis placed evil). STAN LEE was according to the credits, an EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, and it helped greatly especially in showing the relationships between the FF. Loved it and can't wait to buy in on DVD.
secretwarrior
07/09/2005, 15:37
I told a friend on the phine just now that a comic fan should appreciate that they seemed to work on the characters more than go all out for effects and action.
I tihnk it sets up a sequel that will get major money. If there's anything I can say to describe it is small scale. It's about four people who change into superheroes and how they deal with each other, the fame, the powers etc. It's not a blockbuster everyone sees it twice kinda thing
AND I COMPLETELY AGREE BATMAN IS A DIFFERENT MOVIE! Batman Beg.was made as sort of a re-telling of a legend. it was about dramatics and characters. for a "special effects " comic movie, FF did a competant job at balancing characterization/action
secretwarrior
07/09/2005, 16:00
OK go here
Countingdown.com's FF review (http://www.countingdown.com/features?feature_id=3749534)
that review pretty much hits it on the head. When Mr. Server says it seems to get to a point where it's going to be great then goes into mediocrity he pretty much says what I'm thinking
Wolverine_Hulk
07/09/2005, 21:41
It was great!
Stan Lee was finally a comic book character!
The only downside was Doom was just your average villian.
I too just saw the movie with my wife and kids. We loved it.
It was a fun movie going experience. I thought the chemistry between the F4 was great. Sure...Reed and Sue weren't all in cute and in love....but I think that was a major point of their relationship.
Kinda sucks that Dr. Doom wasn't his normal 616 self...but oh well. Essentially...he's still invulnerable (be it from a suit of armor or metal skin) and he can still jack people up with energy blasts (be in blasts from his gauntlet or from electrical discharges). His personality was pretty close to the actual thing as well.
My wife and I actually enjoyed the movie more than the original X Men. Now before I get trampled on by fanboy masses, consider that X Men took itself very seriously (sometimes too seriously) and the "team" didn't really have any chemistry or sense of family at all.
I'd say just go into the movie and have a fun time.
Maniac_nmt
07/10/2005, 10:43
I liked it.
Maybe it's just me, but I actually thought Doom did fine as a rookie Doom. He wasn't always as in your face meglomaniacal as he has become. So I had no problems with Doom in the film. It's also obvious he's not American and may be Latverian royalty (they actually mention it in the film, and again it's on the ship at the end). So griping that Doom wasn't Latverian is pointless, you weren't paying attention.
My only beef would be that the final fight scene is a little short/anti-climatic. I could have done with about 5-10 more minutes of action.
Still, it was a geeky thril to hear Chiklis say "It's Clobberin' Time", plus it had Stan Lee show up as an actual character from the comics.
Chiklis in the suit was a much better decision then CGI. It gave the Thing more prescence/weight when he was on screne.
The guy in daredevil (the one who was going to be hit by the chemicles that Matt saved) was in the comics... So why are we saying that Willie Lumpkin is the first of stans "real character cames"?
BTW, Loved the film. The part where Ben couldnt pick up the ring was great, to have reed come over and help him. You feel really bad for him, than it goes away...
Manchine
07/10/2005, 13:36
My wife loved it. She's not sure if she likes Spiderman II better or Fantastic Four.
I thought it was a good movie. Doom seemed like Doom always planning a step ahead of Reed. At least he thought he was thinking ahead of Reed. The two things that didnt make it great for me was.
1) Invisible Girl, seemed to have a great interaction with Ben and an good Interaction with Reed. With Johnny it seemed ehhh.
2) The Thing being SHORTER then Everyone else on the team. Every time I saw that I just thought why is he so SHORT?
Just Minor things LOL.
2) The Thing being SHORTER then Everyone else on the team. Every time I saw that I just thought why is he so SHORT?
Yeah, I don't get that either. If they can make him into a huge rock, they should be able to slap some platforms on him, too.
I saw it a second time last night.....there were some things that bugged me this time that didn't the first, but it was still good.
The guy in daredevil (the one who was going to be hit by the chemicles that Matt saved) was in the comics... So why are we saying that Willie Lumpkin is the first of stans "real character cames"?
BTW, Loved the film. The part where Ben couldnt pick up the ring was great, to have reed come over and help him. You feel really bad for him, than it goes away...
I'm pretty sure that wasn't Stan Lee though.
Stan Lee was stepping into traffic, and an already blind Matt used his stick to stop him.
WakandaMan
07/10/2005, 21:14
I'm pretty sure that wasn't Stan Lee though.
Stan Lee was stepping into traffic, and an already blind Matt used his stick to stop him.
That's right. I just watched DD again last night, and Stan was just some guy reading the paper and not watching where he was going.
Maniac, that's a good point about it being rookie Doom. I hadn't thought of it that way. Makes it much more palatable. ;)
Diablo4485
07/10/2005, 21:59
OK go here
Countingdown.com's FF review (http://www.countingdown.com/features?feature_id=3749534)
that review pretty much hits it on the head. When Mr. Server says it seems to get to a point where it's going to be great then goes into mediocrity he pretty much says what I'm thinking
Agreed on most points. However:
- I didn't see Sue as a weak character at all. Quite the contrary, I found her to be headstrong and at times overly hostile. Her giving in and accepting Reed was just her finally showing her soft side, though I thought their relationship was poorly written.
- While Johnny was entertaining, he came off more as an immature, stubborn jerk than the over-the-top, loveable troublemaker that his character was based on. I felt like I was supposed to like him but never did.
WakandaMan
07/10/2005, 22:10
Agreed on most points. However:
- I didn't see Sue as a weak character at all. Quite the contrary, I found her to be headstrong and at times overly hostile. Her giving in and accepting Reed was just her finally showing her soft side, though I thought their relationship was poorly written.
- While Johnny was entertaining, he came off more as an immature, stubborn jerk than the over-the-top, loveable troublemaker that his character was based on. I felt like I was supposed to like him but never did.
That's wierd, I almost felt the exact opposite, especially about Johnny. I felt he was absolutely an over the top, loveable troublemaker, and I actually liked him more than I usually do (in the comics I often feel like I'm supposed to like him but he's actually annoying and immature). Different strokes I guess.
The Reed/Sue relationship...I didn't like they way they did it at first, but by the end of the movie I appreciated it. It was a clever way to have them a) not together at the start, while also achieving b) Reed proposing to Sue at the end without it feeling forced. Because they had a history, the proposal was quite appropriate and really completed that sub-plot perfectly.
Oh, and on the inevitable Batman Begins comparisons, let me say, it is extremely hard to compare them. They may both be superheroes, but that's about where the similarity ends. Both were really great movies though.
Actually its pretty easy to compare them:
Comic Book movie [check]
Well known comic characters [check]
Superheroes [check]
Origin Stories [check]
Modernized retelling of story [check]
Action movie [check]
spoilers
I think Batman Begins was a great film I think F4 was mediocre comic/action movie. I would go see Batman again (they have IMAX here), I can't say that about F4. I liked the movie well enough, I wasn't bothered by the mixing of 616 and Ultimates. I was just really bothered by A) the lack of menace/evil presence of Dr Doom after his transformation. This guy wasn't commanding the masses or making his underlings cringe in fear. and B) why the hell would Ben Grimm change back after his life turning to ####??? ( not to mention how did he turn back without sufficient power). I loved the banter between Johnny and Ben, and I thought pre-transformation Doom did a good job of being a vain, pompous smart-###. And well not many guys would complain about Jessica first attempt at turning invisible. :o
WakandaMan
07/11/2005, 02:39
I think the point was that Reed could trigger the cloud with the power he had already- which would be enough to cause a transformation- but not enough to reverse it. So the machine as is, should be able to give him powers....but not take them away again, without Doom's assist.
The reason Batman and F4 are so different is primarily because of 'suspension of disbelief'. Batman was written intentionally to make Batman seem possible in the real world. Fantastic Four never expects anyone to really believe that this could happen- it's just there as a fun ride. Plus- They are enormously different styles of superheroes. Batman is a solo guy (usually), while the Fantastic Four are a team. Batman is dark, F4 is extremely light. Batman has no powers, while the Four's powers are...well...Fantastic. ;) No one would make comparisons between them if they were in comics (unlike say, Batman and Cap), but for some reason once their stories are transferred to a different medium that makes them sensible to compare? Not really.
Rocket Ranger
07/11/2005, 04:14
As two comic book superhero based movies, Batman Begins and the Fantastic 4 can be compared on some levels. As movies, they are completely different kinds of films. While both were PG-13, I believe, Batman was much more intense, adult and scary, even with the one guy getting a hole blasted through his chest in the Fantastic 4. But, that's how the comics are too, to a degree. The Fantastic 4 reads more like an action/adventure. Batman reads often like the comics version of film noir, with some action thrown in. Personally, I love some of the older Batman comics that weren't quite so dark, and Batman Begins handled the darker themes better than the films that came before. While Batman resorts to becoming a fear-inspiring character, the difference between him and what he fights is clear. The Fantastic 4 don't have to hide their identities, have no life mission of protecting their city from crime and corruption, and usually end up creating or finding the problems they encounter as much as their enemies cause them trouble. The Fantastic 4 are great to grow up on, and most of their modern comics are still somewhat appropriate for younger ages. However, a lot of the Batman comics are more appropriate for older readers now, although kids can still get your daily dose of Batman with the Justice League and some of the cartoons.
Overall, Batman Begins was the better film in direction, writing and most of the acting. However, I think that Fantastic 4 did a better job of making a comic book movie that was what fans expected. In other words, Marvel has cornered the "comic book movie" market. Batman has shown that DC is capable of making a better film "based on a comic book". I loved both of them, but that's mainly because the characters are some of my favorite superheroes from both universes. I loved the Spider-Man movies and thought that Hulk was good in that it was different. X-men was ok, but X-2 was better. I liked Fantastic 4 more than X-men, so hopefully its sequal will be much better as well. No offense toward the actors in Fantastic 4, but, if they can get some better, more seasoned actors for villains than the guy that played Doom, the future movies will be much better overall. If you don't believe me, compare the villain actors and what they've done from the Spider-man, X-men films (and even the new Batman movie), and compare that to the guy that played Doom. That, plus a plot that had a few holes and seemed rushed made Fantastic 4 not quite as good as it could have been.
While we're kind of reviewing the films, I thought I'd mention I saw Ebert and Roeper's review of Fantastic 4. Everything they mentioned that they didn't like about the film, the characters and their interaction was stuff mostly taken straight from the comics. They just didn't do their homework to understand the source matierial and based their reviews comparing the film to previous superhero films. I laughed while I watched the review 'cause I realized the very things that they didn't like about the film were some of the very things that fans of the 4 who were going to the film were hoping to see. Oh well, I never base my opinions of films based on other people's opinions, especially those films that know from the start they aren't being made to be considered for an Oscar for best picture of the year.;) A movie like Fantastic 4 is supposed to be nothing more than a fun, summer blockbuster, and I feel it more than delivered in that regard!
WakandaMan
07/11/2005, 05:12
Excellent post as usual Rocket Ranger. I agree with all your points, and you said it a lot better than I could as well.
Wolverine_Hulk
07/11/2005, 08:25
The one thing that will probably hurt Fantastic Four is it coming after the Incredibles.
bootkneelee
07/11/2005, 14:57
My Two Cents!
I loved the Fantastic Four Movie!!!!! I don't care theat they went with Ultimate Doom instead of regular Doom, I loved it! I enjoyed it a 100 times more than the first X-men movie and the only reason I was able to tollerate the 2nd one is that I knew they mwssed up the first one soooooo bad that I was like, who cares that they messed up just about ALL the characters.
And comparing The Batman movie to the Fantastic Four Movie is like comparing... Batman to the Fantastic Four! :p
I'm looking forward to the sequal and many more to come after that!
bootkneelee
07/11/2005, 15:07
This is pretty much what I was expecting.
I'm looking forward to this...although by the time it reaches England, I'll be sick to
death of the "Why thank you, so are you" line.
How well did the Alicia character work?
I loved the fact that they made her a Sista. When Marvel comics were made back in the 60's it was a "white man's [and woman] world. So for them to go back and change up Characters now is fitting. I loved the fact that they made the Kingpin black also. As long as it's a good actor playing the role I say change it all up!
And big up to the Ultimates Universe for making nick Fury a Brother...I would love to see a crossover where the 2 of them team up and Kick some major Buttocks!!!! You think they could get Samuel Jackson and David Haselhoff together in a movie???? :p
skeevo666
07/11/2005, 16:40
You think they could get Samuel Jackson and David Haselhoff together in a movie???? :p
Why not add John Travolta & K.I.T.T. as well? :p
Saw FF yesterday. I give it a 9.5, right up there with Spider-Man 2 & X2 (Hmmm, it was just as good as the improced sequels right out of the gate - how great will its sequel be :confused: )
Funky Jett
07/11/2005, 16:57
Overall, I liked it, but... SPOILER:
The one thing I have a major problem with is this... they now have a machine to create Superheroes. It's either that or a MAJOR continuity problem. Reed tried out the machine to duplicate the storm so as to reverse the process, but the machine couldn't generate enough power. Doom offers to cure Ben, and puts his arm in the machine to generate enough power to reverse the Thing back into just plain ol' Ben. Cool...
How does Ben turn back into the Thing?
If there wasn't enough power to convert Reed, and Doom had to boost the power to turn the Thing back into Ben, where did Ben get enough power to cause the machine to turn him back into the Thing?
Well, I haven't seen it yet...but maybe the machine is a Power suppressor.
Takes a lot of energy to suppress the powers, not so much to release them again.
WakandaMan
07/12/2005, 02:27
That's pretty much how I read it NotYou. By itself, the machine has enough power to cause a transformation, but not to reverse one. So Reed actually can't use it to turn Ben back human again anyway, unless he can find something to provide as much juice as Doom did.
However, it could still be used to give other people powers. I don't know if anyone would want to risk turning into a giant orange rock though- or for all we know, even something worse! (She-Thing anyone?). Since it's effects are so random, I can't see Reed letting anyone else use the machine.
doctorfate77
07/12/2005, 02:47
I can't see Reed letting anyone else use the machine.
That'd be an interesting story if someone (or the government) stole it and started making their own super-powered soldiers.
I can't say the movie was good, in the sense that it seemed rushed and rather shoddy in a LOT of places (Reed's sometimes american/sometimes British accent). In some respects, it was quite bad (Julian McMahon's phoned-in performance). However, I have not had so much fun in a LOOOOONG time. I'll definitely see it again, and I'll definitely own it on DVD.
Rocket Ranger
07/12/2005, 06:36
However, I have not had so much fun in a LOOOOONG time. I'll definitely see it again, and I'll definitely own it on DVD.
My sentiments exactly!
Revenge of the Sith was fun for the first 20 minutes, than it quickly became the heaviest, most tragic episode of the series. Also, while it had great visuals and a better story than the other two prequals, it wasn't new.
Batman wasn't new either. Oh, I loved the new take on the Batman mythos and believe it to be the best translation to film yet, but it was usually too intense to give you time to cheer. It just didn't have that "fun" ingredient, and, to a certain degree, that's probably why the film succeeded so well compared to the last couple of installments.
Fantastic 4 was new (meaning it had never made it to the big screen before), it didn't take itself too seriously, it was adequately true to the comics, and it was one big summer romp! The actors are signed on for at least 2 more movies, I heard, and Michael Chiklis, the one who had to endure the most during the making of the film, is totally onboard and excited for any future film. (According to him, filming for the sequal may start as early as next spring). In my opinion, he as Thing MADE the movie! There were many times that I was laughing at stuff the Thing was saying and doing when nobody else in the theater was, and I think that's because I could see Thing saying and doing those very things in the comics. But, not only was he the funniest in the film, in my opinion, he was the most human and endearing to the audience.
If Fox plays their cards right, the future adventures of the Fantastic 4 on film could really be a boon to the business. There is just so much potential with the F4: the coming of Galactus, Moleman, exploring the Negative Zone, etc., etc.... All of these would provide for some great sci-fi action/adventures. The stories and plots are already there for fine-tuning. All that remains is some good screenwriting, growth in some of the acting and a visual/computer effects budget that allows the bigger stories to be captured as realistically as possible. Oh yeah, and a villain that steals the show!;)
doctorfate77
07/12/2005, 14:24
If Fox plays their cards right, the future adventures of the Fantastic 4 on film could really be a boon to the business. There is just so much potential with the F4: the coming of Galactus, Moleman, exploring the Negative Zone, etc., etc.... All of these would provide for some great sci-fi action/adventures. The stories and plots are already there for fine-tuning. All that remains is some good screenwriting, growth in some of the acting and a visual/computer effects budget that allows the bigger stories to be captured as realistically as possible. Oh yeah, and a villain that steals the show!;)
That's where movies like Daredevil, Elektra, and Hulk went horribly wrong. They took themselves FAR too seriously.
If FF continues to be lighthearted, mindless, and fun, it'll continue to succeed. There aren't enough comic book dorks in the world to keep these movies afloat if they made them all the way we want them to. And in my opinion we need these movies to succeed long enough for me to get my Doctor Fate movie... :p
Diablo4485
07/14/2005, 03:23
That's where movies like Daredevil, Elektra, and Hulk went horribly wrong. They took themselves FAR too seriously.
If FF continues to be lighthearted, mindless, and fun, it'll continue to succeed. There aren't enough comic book dorks in the world to keep these movies afloat if they made them all the way we want them to. And in my opinion we need these movies to succeed long enough for me to get my Doctor Fate movie... :p
Agreed on all counts except "mindless." It wouldn't hurt the movie at all to be just a little more cerebral than the usual fare, and I don't really think you'd need to sacrifice the lightheartedness in order to do so. Plus, I was too disappointed with the line delivery in certain parts of FF to advocate it being anymore mindless than it already is.
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