Dark Pheonix ex-con exclusive

[squirrelfarmer]

Dark Pheonix "Ex-Con" exclusive

I was one of the people who purchased a Dark Pheonix from someone going to a Con. I had paid the big dollars for this DP and I was happy to pay it, based on the Galactus popularity and the fact I have no time to goto a Con. I again had a chance to get another Dark Pheonix, Yes that means I have two. Well, this I thought was a non-issue as I planned to trade her away for something in a future set.

Now, after the WizKids chat.

"Customers who purchase an Armor Wars ClixBrick will also have the opportunity to order the Dark Phoenix convention-exclusive figure for $30.00, plus shipping and handling. "


Where does this leave the after market? Is Dark Pheonix going to be a common figure with a value based on a $30.00 + plus shipping market share? Or will I be able to re-cover some her former worth?

[Darth Sabre]

Knowing what I know, there is no way that I would pay more than $50.00 for her now. If someone wants to gouge the market, either through trade or sale..I'm not above waiting for 3 months to get her for her actaul price.

I would suspect, only the most desperate of people would pay that much for her now. Anyone who else, would wait.

[squirrelfarmer]

Knowing what I know, there is no way that I would pay more than $50.00 for her now. If someone wants to gouge the market, either through trade or sale..I'm not above waiting for 3 months to get her for her actaul price.

I would suspect, only the most desperate of people would pay that much for her now. Anyone who else, would wait.

I agree with your statement completely. This is one of the reasons for my post. How is this a good marketing theme for Con-exclusives. I guess I just don't get it! I mean why did WizKids not make them more available at the Cons? If I stood in line for one I would be ticked or if I went to a Con and did not get one at all. Why did they not just start out selling them as the did with Sinestro? Why is it that they seem to make poorly thought out plans and leave some of their customer base in the cross-fire. Why a coupon system now, JUST SELL THEM!

Thanks for your input...

[freakazoid_x]

Wizkids has said repeatedly that they don't decide anything with the after market in mind. It's the after market, therefore none of their concern. Sorry you got hosed a bit though. That does suck, but look at it like this. You have 2 very awesome LE's a few months ahead of everyone else and DP is still wicked valuable for trade now.

[Darth Sabre]

I think WK is tryng to make there customer base more happy. People have long since, been irritated with the lack of opportunity on obtaining Con Exclusives.

Think of it this way, as a person who went to a con and got one, you were privy to getting her as a bonus for going to the con. The rest of us poor slobs who can't make it to a con, have to wait through the con season, before we are able to get her.

She still remains exclusive, in the sense that unless you go to a con, or are willing to pay an enormous amount for her on the secondary market, you can't get her. Now e get the chance to get her too, but have to wait till the convention season is over, and have to shell out $100 to get the Clix Brick to get her.

It's a fair trade off me thinks. But I can see your point.

[squirrelfarmer]

My biggest issue is that this is a collectable game, that being said here is my point. How can they not be thinking about the after market?

Why else would they produce Con-exclusives? Why Promo figures you can only get at events. Why offer limited addition figures at all if WizKids is not thinking of the collectability. And the collectability of a game is tied in directly to the after market. How much would your KC supes be worth if WizKids decided to produce them with the next set and make them a mail away purchase?

Example:
Batman the detective figure: I would say this figure base value is ABOUT $30 because WizKids has promissed he would not be available through any other means. I would say that this figure will have a higher collectable value than this Con-exclusive when WizKids floods the market with DP figures.

I hope no one is thinking I'm against the idea of making these figures public. I'm all for making this game a set based game to be bought for a set base purchase. I'm against taking a plan and changing it in the middle. Why do this with Dark Pheonix why not make the next big figure available for direct purchase. How as collectors are we going to base our selections on exclusives if they change the availablity. Is this a collectable game or not?

[noobisnoob]

I got 4 DP's at WWLA, and I sold 3 of them. I'm just glad they made this announcement well after I sold them or else I'd be really pissed.

But I can see where some people are coming from, I'm kind of not as hyped up about the one DP I kept although she is a really cool looking figure to have on display on top of my monitor with Big G, and the other two big figures.

But again like someone said before you can still feel somewhat special because for the people that can't get them until the end of the year, they still have to pay over $100 for a clix brix, then still pay $30 plus S&H. All in all, they still have to pay over $130 and they don't get the other con exclusives like Nova LE and Statesman (although you can get him pretty cheap). So I sold 3 at over $150 and the purchasers got the free LE's with them too, so if you look at it that way. It's about even.

Rant over and hopefully makes sense.

[CuriousLurker]

I think WK is tryng to make there customer base more happy. People have long since, been irritated with the lack of opportunity on obtaining Con Exclusives.


Of course I have been lumped in with the complainers. Even though I am not 100% on their side.

I am making a generalization here which will get me in trouble from the people who like to pick apart one aspect of an argument only. But I agree with Darth Sabre's above point but with one slight change.

IMO, WK is trying to make their player base more happy. And by "player" I mean people who put more emphasis on playing the game than collecting the figures.

Their collector base, being collectors at heart, most likely already have the piece, and paid higher amounts for it. And this point has nothing to do with dealers (meaning people selling the DP on the secondary market.) They want to collect every piece and are willing to pay what it takes to have it. They don't care if the next guy has one or doesn't. Their concern is owning every piece. The idea of collecting every piece is where they get the enjoyment from the hobby.

Now the average player, which tends to be Joe Poster here, isn't going thru the fire hoops the collectors did to get their piece. They just want to set up DP on the board and start rolling the dice. But they also may not have the mentality that they need every playing piece.

My opinion since the announcement of Clix Bricks is that clix bricks favor the player over the collector. And that collectors may be turned off by these promotions. And I had that opinion before the DP announcement.

To me, a healthy Wizkids product or promotion is one that doesn't sacrifice one customer base over another.

As to what my personal beliefs are, I love the idea of every customer being able to get any piece they want. I hate lines at conventions amid the unwashed hordes. I hate lotto tickets. I just want to be able to walk up to a counter, plunk down my cash and walk away with a toy. And I own a Galactus and a Phoenix. Phoenix looks good on my shelf in the room I keep my clix. I haven't had the chance to play her.

But Wizkids started down a path of promoting items that would be convention exclusives. To change midstream will lose customers. And choosing player dollars over collector dollars could lose customers.

And that's why I rant. I don't want to this game to lose any customers. I still need a Detective Chimp clix.

[balanceathart]

Well think of it this way, you have to buy the clix brix which is a 12 pack of boosters. That total comes to about 95 without tax and is rounded down. Then you still need to pay the 30+shipping. So the minimum amount you'll be paying for DP is 125. She is still not going to be cheap to get.

[LeaLu]

If it were me, I'd put her on eBay right now. Her value is only going to drop from this point.

I don't think it's really fair to count the costs of the clix-brick as part of DP's cost later, though- it's boosters you would have bought anyway, right? Buying a clix brick solely to get a Dark Phoenix order form is like going to a convention solely for the reason of hoping to get her.

[SuperGENE]

I know that it does suck for some of you who spent a lot for DP before the announcement, but I still think it's a great move on the part of WK.

1. The benefit to players who were unable to easily get one far outweighs the burden suffered by the few who paid top dollar for the fig. We won't be getting it until the end of the year, and it will still will cost $135 after the brick. On the other hand, those who have her now will have had a good year's worth of exclusive ownership before it became avaialble to the masses. Better to appease thosands of casual players than a few hundren con attendees, many of whom get multiples to hawk on Ebay or are just whiny to begin with.

2. It's a better business decision for WK. Hmm, sell 300 of DR at a con, or sell a few thousand through the redemption? Not to mention that WK also makes money off the brick customers need to buy for the redemption. Cons are a niche market. Global redemption offers are where the real profit's at.

3. Heroclix is not a serious investment. For me, it's a really fun game with cool figures. For others, it's a great way to get mini sculpts of their favorite heros and villains. Anyone who treats clix as a long term investment is an idiot. You want investment value? Go buy shares of Google.

[noobisnoob]

I don't think people collect Heroclix as a long term invest. I collect them to play and have the figures that I like the most from comic books.

I probably will never sell my Heroclix unless they are extras then I will usually try to trade those for wants first, but most people are concerned because before the announcement the weight they had for owning a particular figure gave them better value for trades. Regardless of how much money you can get for a certain Heroclix on eBay. The little pieces of plastic have a certain value to them. I don't think someone will trade a FF Prof. X for an IC Prof. X.

So my point being, WK offering Dark Phoenix with a coupon is diminishing the rarity of the item and it's trade value. It can no longer be considered an exclusive because at the end of this year people will consider their KC Green Lanterns worth more than Dark Phoenix whereas back in March a Dark Phoenix commanded at least a KC Green Lantern, KC Superman, and something else to sweeten the deal.

Also, most players can't play Dark Phoenix anyways unless it's a high point game and even then some venues have house rules preventing Big Figures.

People that want to have the awesome figure that can't go to a convention or pay the high prices on eBay may be happier because of this, but I think overall people don't see the impact. How exclusive is a Dark Phoenix if everyone has one? It would be like the PGA Masters Tournament saying, "I know you didn't win the green jacket, but if you actually paid for your entry into the tournament, you can get one anyways." I know that's a bit extreme but you get the idea.

[szude]

So my point being, WK offering Dark Phoenix with a coupon is diminishing the rarity of the item and it's trade value. It can no longer be considered an exclusive because at the end of this year people will consider their KC Green Lanterns worth more than Dark Phoenix whereas back in March a Dark Phoenix commanded at least a KC Green Lantern, KC Superman, and something else to sweeten the deal.


I think that's making a biiiiiiig assumption. You're assuming, essentially, that Wizkids is printing up more Dark Phoenixi to fill this future "order". What if this batch they're selling comes from the original allotment? Thus, these would have been Dark Phoenixi on the market in some form or another. Maybe they could have brought double to all the cons. Maybe they could have brought every remaining Dark Phoenix in the world to WWTexas and sold them. So in that case, the number of existing Phoenixi would have been the same and the rarity and value wouldn't be any different. So I don't see that argument holding water, necessarily.


People that want to have the awesome figure that can't go to a convention or pay the high prices on eBay may be happier because of this, but I think overall people don't see the impact. How exclusive is a Dark Phoenix if everyone has one? It would be like the PGA Masters Tournament saying, "I know you didn't win the green jacket, but if you actually paid for your entry into the tournament, you can get one anyways." I know that's a bit extreme but you get the idea.

Yeah, bad analogies don't help.

[squirrelfarmer]

[QUOTE=szude]I think that's making a biiiiiiig assumption. You're assuming, essentially, that Wizkids is printing up more Dark Phoenixi to fill this future "order".

I would have to say if that is the case then the ONLY big issue is that it still makes these figures a less sought after item. That the figure will have the appearance of costing only $30 plus shipping. Making DP's trade value below what it started at. I can tell you for a fact that I can't get what I could for her one month ago. I would say that if it is true that there is a limited number I would be ok with it if WizKids numbered them and or the coupons.

I just don't see this being well thought out, before they made her a non-Con.

[SpyderSpawn]

Ok, color me a little upset. I'm one of the collector/gamer/tourney, guys who bought the piece after-market. I did get the LE's that came with it though and I did pay the -pretty penny- for it.

That said, when I really thought it over I decided that I wasn't all that mad. Why!? you ask, well, I'll tell you.

You know those guys that buy one comic book to read and another to shell up in the plastic and store away? Yeah, I'm one of those guys. I dove into that DP box as soon as it arrived and opened it up and marveled...heh..marveled..get it?..anyhow..at the piece. I then played it...a lot. I had wanted to get another to store away but at the price they were there was nooooo waaay I was doin' that. With the new announcement I'll be able to do just that and get an LE Iron Man and get a DP for thiry bucks all in one fell swoop while buying boosters I woulda' bought anyway. I understand the frustration coming from a lot of the people who bought the piece and I felt the -EXACT- same way when I saw the announcement buuut..colored in a different light I decided I could handle it.

When life hands you lemons, make the lemonade.

[K-ness]

I am a collector. I am a completist. I am also responsible enough to know when I can and cannot afford something. Dark Phoenix was unobtainable to me as a convention exclusive. She was unobtainable to me on the secondary market. She is finally obtainable to me thanks to this new promotion.


I grow tired of listening to people complain when something doesn't go their way. So you paid out the nose for DP on the secondary market. Your choice. You stood in line for 4 hours to have a chance to buy her. Your choice. If you were able to do that then, I'm happy for you. Complaining about it now doesn't change the fact.

[squirrelfarmer]

I am a collector. I am a completist. I am also responsible enough to know when I can and cannot afford something. Dark Phoenix was unobtainable to me as a convention exclusive. She was unobtainable to me on the secondary market. She is finally obtainable to me thanks to this new promotion.


I grow tired of listening to people complain when something doesn't go their way. So you paid out the nose for DP on the secondary market. Your choice. You stood in line for 4 hours to have a chance to buy her. Your choice. If you were able to do that then, I'm happy for you. Complaining about it now doesn't change the fact.


I'm not up set that I paid too much. I'm upset that people like you have no appreciation for the fact that this was a poor decision to make in the middle of production. Why are they not selling them like they did with the Sentinals? Why did they start the DP mail-away now? Why not be upfront with everyone from the start?

[StormKnight]

But Wizkids started down a path of promoting items that would be convention exclusives. To change midstream will lose customers. And choosing player dollars over collector dollars could lose customers.
It could also gain customers. And repeatedly making cool figures that most people can't actually get could cost them customers.

Why not be upfront with everyone from the start?
Because WK started out intending it to be a con exclusive, then got SO MANY complaints they decided it was a bad idea not to have any other way for their players getting it. They actually LISTENED to their customers! Go WK!
I assume they didn't put them in stores since the larges haven't sold all that spectacularly, and making it a send in only available with purchase of a fairly price chunk of product ensures its still something a bit special.

[chonk34]

I think I paid $150 for my Dark Phoenix online. I am in Iraq, so going to a con was out of the question and it was too far to be cost-effective for my wife to go to the cons. I am happy with my purchase, and even if you want the $30.00 mail-in Dark Phoenix you still have to buy the $96.00 Clix-Brick + $30.00 + probably S & H. So I'd say no one's getting screwed. Sure, you get the Clix-Brick exclusive LE and the figures from the boosters, but you still have to lay out a lot of cash to get the chance to buy a Dark Phoenix. Those of us who went to cons or got them from people who went to cons just got them a little earlier. I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

[szude]

Why are they not selling them like they did with the Sentinals?

Uh...I think that's very, very obvious. They want people to buy packs of 12 boosters.....

[darkomr]

DP-gate! I haven't gotten one yet but has anyone stopped and wondered why the announcement said a 'chance' to get one? They may only have 200-300 after the cons are over; they may have produced 1,000 more just for the promotion, who knows? That said, I sympathize with anyone who paid more than they would have if they had known what they know now. You have to admit if they only had about 50 left-over after the con season everybody that got one from now until that's public knowledge will get a good laugh. :laugh:

[Glen Quagmire]

Why are they not selling them like they did with the Sentinals?


Uh...I think that's very, very obvious. They want people to buy packs of 12 boosters.....

I thought I heard a combination of unsatisfactory sales for Sentinels/Sinestro and brick and mortar stores not liking how much shelf space they took up. In any case, they made a conclusion that they didn't want to sell oversized figures in retail stores long before this phase of the Dark Phoenix offer.

[Wasteland]

The best reason, in my opinion, for Wizkids doing this is thus:

From a collector's standpoint, sure it sucks that Dark Pheonix was a con exlusive and now no longer is. But from a player standpoint this really sucks. Why? Because there is only 1 Dark Pheonix. What I mean by this is that there is no other way to get her other than as a con exclusive. I have no problem at all with the Nova LE or Silver Surfer LE and such, because as a regular player or fan of the characters, you have another means of obtaining one.

If you were a huge fan of Spidey and spidey related characters and they made only 1 version of Spidey and he was a con exclusive only, how much would that suck? Or what about Superman? Or any of the other big names? For the most part, people get into Heroclix because they are a fan of the characters, and the idea that they would get to play their favorite heros and villains in mock comic book battles. When your favorite character becomes only available through the secondary market, that kind of puts a cramp on your enthusiasm for playing the game.

There are lots of fans of Dark Pheonix, or Galactus for that matter, but their only recourse for obtaining their favorite characters is through the secondary market. That really kind of sucks. Your dream of playing your favorite character has been pretty shot down, unless you spend lots of money/time to get them. Again, what if it were Spidey or Doctor Doom or Namor after the amount of time we had to wait for one? If you were to replace Dark Pheonix with either of them, there would be even more of an outcry, just due to the overwhelming amount of fans there are.

I am all for convention exclusives, provided they are still available in another form. Make an exclusive Spidey, Bag-head version. Why not? I could still play as any other Spidey. Make an Electric Blue Superman con exclusive. People could still use a different Big Blue. But don't make an Omega Red convention only. Or a Specter con exclusive. That would be a huge slap in the face to all their fans. Same as Dark Pheonix was, or Galactus. And that's why I'm happy that they are changing their stance on this. This way all of the Dark Pheonix fans have a chance to get one.