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View Full Version : Marquee Primer HeroClix A to Z: DC ICONS Marquee Primer - Part 2


AZS
09/06/2005, 12:08
PART - 2

Welcome to another Marquee Primer review, and the first for an all new “Base Set!”

There is no Pre-Release for this set, and the Marquee is still a few weeks away, but that doesn’t mean we can’t play in a few friendly sealed games before then.

Since the set is smaller than a regular expansion, I’ll be reviewing it in 3 parts:
Part 1 – The first half of the set
Part 2 – The second half of the set, including uniques
Part 3 – The cards

* Since you can’t play the Starter pack figures in the Marquee, I’ll be reviewing those in a separate review later.

click on replies below to read the review.

AZS
09/06/2005, 12:08
Since this is a smaller set, and the coalition has changed, the difference between Commons and Rares gets a little blurry. Also with fewer figures overall, even if some are considered more rare than others, you’re still more likely to pull just about any figure. So I’m keeping that in mind when reviewing and not calling anything ‘common’ or ‘rare,’ except for the Uniques - which are still somewhat ‘unique.’


Standard Intro:
This review and rating system is for a 300 point, 3 booster Sealed event only. Using a star (*) rating system.

* Steer clear of this figure.
** Not so good. Should be considered with caution.
*** Fair. Based on how you need to fill out a team.
**** Good. Definitely consider this figure.
***** Great! Should be a top choice for your team.

There will be only a few 1 or 5 star ratings here. So please realize that even though your favorite character might not have gotten five stars like you think it should, I’m just trying to be fair.

Everything written here is in the most general form possible.
Since the specific combination of figures pulled will work together to determine which are more playable than others.

Lastly, this review is just my opinion. And these are a lot of work to write, so I ask you very kindly, please don’t get angry at me for my ratings. I give reasonable explanations for each choice. If you disagree (and you are welcome to do so), please try to do the same.


Part 2 – The rest of the REV’s and the Uniques:


The Joker
78 / 88 / 107 – All Batman Enemy
Like Vet Robin, this figure offers you stealthed Outwit, plus a slew of other powers. His rookie isn’t overwhelming for the points, since his 9 AV is just ok and the 4 range isn’t going to worry anyone. He ends up being a really difficult to kill Outwitter. Not really worth 78 points in a sealed event. Although he’ll undoubtedly see a lot of play anyway because people will be swayed by that Outwit.
The Exp is much better for only a 10 point increase. AV is up to a more impressive 10, he keeps Outwit a little longer, has more Perplex at the end, and his range is up to a respectable (if not frightening) six.
If you can keep him next to someone he can Mastermind damage to, he can be deadly for a long while. You might not get a lot of use out of his Poison though, there’s a lot of Toughness going around in this set.
Vet Joker is slightly better than the Exp, but is a lot of points for a little improvement. His high 11 AV will probably help much more on constructed Batman Enemy teams than it will in this format. And his 3 damage is far lower than many other figures near or below his cost. His big saving grace is the Outwit, which will wreak havoc on your opponent’s strategy. That alone raises the bar for him.
R - **
E - ****
V - ***

Batman
79 – Bat Ally / 102 – Bat Ally / 119
Like his nemesis the Joker, Batman’s Outwit goes a long way in this set towards improving his usefulness – which admittedly is already pretty high!
Rookie Batman is mobile with L/C and Willpower, and dangerous thanks to Outwit. His 3 damage is good, but he can also use Incapacitate to slow down the big guns. Two clicks of Outwit at the end of his dial keeps him dangerous even after he takes some damage.
The Exp is a good chuck of points more, but for only a few improvements. Still, he’s worth the points with his double target Incapacitate and lots of Outwit. You’ll find his mid dial a little weak in this format, keep that in mind if you’re facing him, deal one solid hit to put him off his good stuff and then leave him floundering to either get back to Outwit, or struggle to be useful as is. Then wait until you’ve dealt with the rest of his team before going back and finishing him off.
The Vet changes things up a bit by ditching the Batman TA for natural Stealth. His improved AV will help him hit all the 17 defenses around, and his increased range makes him more of a threat and more of a ranger. However, if he gets knocked off his Stealth (will only take 2 damage to do so), he’s a high value target and it will be difficult to keep him safe.

Because Batman doesn’t have any close combat powers (CCE or EW), all versions of this figure are totally ranged figures. Keep him a safe distance from danger, using his range and Outwit to pick away at opponents, and use his stealth for defense. Only Superman can see him in this set.
R - ****
E - ****
V - ***

Darkseid
141 / 157 / 181
Darkseid will be one of the more strategic pieces in this game, and one of the most effective when played well. Again we see Outwit, which is dangerous on its own, but add in Darkseid’s own far reaching range and high damage and he’s definitely a threat.
More to the point, he gets better as he takes clicks, so don’t be shy about pushing him to press an attack, or take a hit if you know it will land him on his good clicks.
Also, thanks to his bump in AV a few clicks in, Darkseid keeps a consistently high attack for most of his dial, to go well with his consistently high Damage.
Of course his best feature is his Psychic Blast which will shred any number of figures in this set! That is 2 clicks in on all versions and comes with 5 damage and an increase to AV. Knowing Darkseid’s dial will be key to playing him well.
Finally, the Vet’s far-reaching 12 range will allow him to affect the game from half a board away, acting as his best defense and keeping many opponents from even getting near him to deal damage.
R - ****
E - ****
V - *****

Superman
197 – Superman Ally / 222 – JLA / 251 – Superman Ally
There isn’t a whole lot of Stealth in this set, so it won’t be as imperative to pull the rookie or Vet superman. However, ignoring hindering terrain will help his AV as well.
Don’t discount the Exp and his JLA affiliation, Running Shot for 5 damage is nothing but devastating.
Of course this Superman hardly needs to be sold to anyone, he’s really that good. The only question is how well Superman will stand up to Superman if/when they face off in games.
Also because this is a smaller set, there’s a much better chance that he’s going to show up, often. Unfortunately he is extremely difficult to face off against. Possibly the best defense in this set against the man of steel is Raven and her Barrier, but even that will only last for so long. And Superman alone will drive many people to play any Outwitter they pull as an ace in the hole.
Ultimately, the only way to beat Superman (in any of these versions) is to throw everything you can at him and do as much damage as quickly as possible. If you can get him off his mobile clicks early, he’ll be stuck and have to take extra actions to move and attack (possibly forcing him to push as well.)
Incapacitate will also be helpful against him, but the few figures with that power may have a hard time hitting his high defense. Also remember that with the rules update figures cannot shoot out of close combat. So you can tie up the Rookie and Exp for a turn or two by basing him and forcing him to attack or risk rolling to break away.
The best I can offer for facing off against Superman, particularly the Vet, is “Good Luck.”
R - *****
E - *****
V - *****

The Uniques –
There’s only 6, and unlike most other sets, the real power pieces are the REV’s, so pulling a Unique is cool, but it won’t sway the game as much as uniques typically do.

Ra’s al-Ghul
79 – Batman Enemy
Fans of Batman Enemy theme teams will rejoice at not one, but two new Bat Enemies with an 11 AV. Unfortunately, in this format it doesn’t do much good.
Ra’s could be a great figure on a constructed theme team, maybe even giving Batman a run for his money, but here he’s a little limited. By the numbers he’s pretty good, defense is solid, with the added bonus of ES/D (which isn’t redundant anymore thanks to the glut of Ultimates and Trick Shots), AV is good and bolstered with Blades, but his ranged attack is limited to 2 damage. With no TK in the set, and no Willpower up front, Ra’s will have a hard time getting to a target to use his Blades.
Lastly, Leadership up front does absolutely nothing to help this character here. Perplex and Outwit do go a long way towards keeping the figure useful down the entire dial, and Regeneration makes him self sufficient, but ultimately he’s still very difficult to play in a sealed game.
U - ***

Brainiac
251 – Superman Enemy
Like Bizarro, Brainiac has nobody to pair with to use his Superman Enemy TA.
Unlike Bizarro, he has Outwit to start with anyway so the TA is kinda wasted points (at least to start with, it would certainly be useful mid dial.)
Brainy has some great offensive guns, his Running Shot with 5 base damage is big, and Pulse Wave could be huge as well, although it will be significantly harder to pull off. And if you think that Brainiac is the best weapon against Vet Superman, keep in mind that Brainy has an 11 AV, and Supes an 18 defense, so its still not an easy shot.
Even so, against any other figures in the sealed game Brainiac will be a serious force.
U - ****

Lex Luthor
212 – Superman Enemy
There are all these good Superman Enemy figures in the set, and none can work in the Marquee because they’re all so expensive.
Luthor has some big honkin’ guns of his own though, and Running Shot and Charge go a long way toward helping his playability. His AV and Damage are solid for most of his dial, and his starting defense rivals the man of steel himself.
Ultimately, Lex may not be awesome for his points in a constructed game, but in this format he is surprisingly formidable.
U - ****

Terra
60 - Titans
The only figure in the set besides Raven to start with Barrier. That is probably Terra’s biggest contribution to any team. Force Blast and Quake to start with won’t get you much, but Barrier will be great. In fact, since her better clicks are mid dial, feel free to push (on the first click only) to put up Barrier twice. (Keeping in mind that if you push to put up Barrier on the second click you’ll push off the power and the barrier will come down!)
Mid dial Terra has a nice combo with Pulse Wave and 4 damage. If she’s set up with just a single opponent in range she can really devastate. But even against multiple opponents she can do some real damage with PW. And most likely she’ll end up on PW after taking a hit, so you’ll get to retaliate nicely.
Unfortunately on her best click she’s also pretty much defenseless, so don’t count on getting a PW attack off more than once.
All around, she has some uses, most of all Barrier, but the chances of getting a big PW attack to work are kinda slim. As such, I can’t put too much stock in her.
U - ***

Cyborg
80 - Titans
Well, Cy starts with PW, so that’s an improvement. He’s also tough and starts with fair damage. RCE mid dial and Perplex at the end help keep him useful after he’s taken a hit, so he’s good for most of his dial. Even so, you may pull better uses for those 80 points.
U - ***

The Flash
99
Since HyperSonic Speed is such a good power, it seems that something many people are surprised to hear is that it does not ignore hindering terrain. People are used to seeing HSS on flyers and maybe they even equate the free break away with other break away powers like Phasing and L/C. However, Flash will get tied up in the bushes or a pond just as easily as any other grounded figure. And he still also has to halve his movement coming out of hindering terrain. Since I’ve seen this misconception so much lately, I thought it was worth pointing out.

As for the figure, the pros are obvious, HSS with a high movement, and a defense number KC Flash would be proud of. However, the Flash’s base 2 damage may be little more than a nuisance to many of the figures in this set. He’ll zip around, stirring up a lot of anxiety, just to ping some figure with Toughness for 1 click of damage.
And don’t get started on HSS and Quake, like Unique Shazam! in Unleashed showed us, the two powers do not work together!
Still, if you pull enough low point figures with solid damage to round out the offensive ability of your team, Flash could be very useful for knocking nuisance pieces off outwit, or off other problematic powers like RS or Charge.
Good companions for the Flash are Blackfire, Cheetah, Wonder Woman, and couple others. So his place on a team may depend heavily on who you pull to balance him out.
U - ***


Tomorrow will be part 3 of the review: Feats, Battlefield Conditions and Bystander Tokens.

Darth Sabre
09/06/2005, 12:24
Great review, as always! Glad to see you emphasize that E Superman can be a great figure, even without the Superman Ally TA. I know that I will play him if I pull him.

sniksder
09/06/2005, 12:29
Yes E Superman can be just as good as the V, took down the V with the E in the sealed Icons event at Dragon Con, regardless any version of Supes is going to greatly increase your cahnce of winning, as long as you know how to us him ;)

LostKhance
09/06/2005, 13:09
I hadn't even noticed it until you mention it but bat's DOESn't have CCE or Even EW... I hate wizkids with a fiery passion...

Phantom
09/06/2005, 13:30
Great review, and I agree with just about everything. Although I’d probably rate Terra higher, just for being another pushable Barrier piece.

Marlow
09/06/2005, 13:55
I think it was a nice way to show Batman has gone back to being a loner, and gives a Batman that can be played with Disbanded. However without the TA I will not play the Vet.

Robin (E), Superman(RV), Wonder Woman (EV), Al-Ghul are my top wants.

Sehmket
09/06/2005, 14:00
The Flash
99
Since HyperSonic Speed is such a good power, it seems that something many people are surprised to hear is that it does not ignore hindering terrain. People are used to seeing HSS on flyers and maybe they even equate the free break away with other break away powers like Phasing and L/C. However, Flash will get tied up in the bushes or a pond just as easily as any other grounded figure. And he still also has to halve his movement coming out of hindering terrain. Since I’ve seen this misconception so much lately, I thought it was worth pointing out.
.


Ok, I'll admit it... I didn't realize that. Call me surprised.

Criosphinx
09/06/2005, 14:23
So, is Prof. Zoom one of the starter figures? I thought he was a unique...

Could be wrong, just asking =)

amanojacu
09/06/2005, 14:25
The Flash
99
Since HyperSonic Speed is such a good power, it seems that something many people are surprised to hear is that it does not ignore hindering terrain. People are used to seeing HSS on flyers and maybe they even equate the free break away with other break away powers like Phasing and L/C. However, Flash will get tied up in the bushes or a pond just as easily as any other grounded figure. And he still also has to halve his movement coming out of hindering terrain. Since I’ve seen this misconception so much lately, I thought it was worth pointing out.




I'm sure you will cover this tomorrow, but if you pull the swingline feat card you can remedy this quite easily since it allows you to ignore hindering terrain. It works great with Blackfire as well.

church of xorn
09/06/2005, 14:30
I'm interested in how vet supes acts on the secondary market and for trading. Cant wait till wednesday.

raphael76
09/06/2005, 14:45
While this may seem obvious, it would also be a good option to pair Flash up with an outwitter, say like V Robin if you pull him, that way you can make his 2 damage stick a little more. Obviously if you pull a heavier hitter, by all means use it, but Flash is a nice option if you pull mostly figs below the 100pt mark.

Wolverine_Hulk
09/06/2005, 15:10
Does anyone know what the pogs stats are?

adamical
09/06/2005, 15:29
This set really is tiny.

We'll see how it goes.

Miraclo
09/06/2005, 15:42
I'm sure you will cover this tomorrow, but if you pull the swingline feat card you can remedy this quite easily since it allows you to ignore hindering terrain. It works great with Blackfire as well.

Right. He won't be able to use the ranged combat attack option, but if I read the card correctly he'll get a +1 to his Speed, too. Not back for 10 points.

Miraclo
09/06/2005, 15:46
"back" = "bad"

Phantom
09/06/2005, 15:57
Right. He won't be able to use the ranged combat attack option, but if I read the card correctly he'll get a +1 to his Speed, too. Not back for 10 points.
Yeah, but you're still going to be investing a lot of points in a fig who won't be able to deal significant damage. With no front-loaded Perplex in this set, no damage-boosting feats, and a large number of figs with damage reduction, he's not going to be scoring many kills for your team. In constructed, he'll be great. In sealed, not so much.

Miraclo
09/06/2005, 16:09
Yeah, but you're still going to be investing a lot of points in a fig who won't be able to deal significant damage. With no front-loaded Perplex in this set, no damage-boosting feats, and a large number of figs with damage reduction, he's not going to be scoring many kills for your team. In constructed, he'll be great. In sealed, not so much.

Granted, I don't think either of us were trying to deny what azs said about the piece's usefulness in a sealed match, but this is one of those combinations where if I happened to pull the two parts (Flash and Swingline) I'd at least give using it some thought. 109 points still gives one plenty of room to build with. As always, it depends on what one pulls.

lobo1
09/06/2005, 16:13
a vet superman along with any version of batman would make an awesome marquee pull.

cheers

Miraclo
09/06/2005, 16:20
a vet superman along with any version of batman would make an awesome marquee pull.

cheers

It's really a matter of having one you can use.

Though it won't help at the marquee level, I thought it pretty cool that the vet Superman and the starter Batman make a very nice, 298 pt World's Finest team.

Sazabi
09/06/2005, 16:46
As much a I agree that Bat's and Supes from this set would be a great team for the marque, unless your venue allows for 400pt or higher teams in a marque...the veteran Supes and any form of Bat's wouldn't fit.

Now in Constructed....Experienced Bat's and the Veteran Supes(with Darkness Within & Fortitude) ....there's a team to fight against. 251 + 40 for the aforementioned feats and then Bat's for 102 = 393. A 2 man team but I assure you it would be painful to face. Bat's Willpower works perfectly with Darkness Within; thus Supes has a perfect damage booster he can carry around with him.

Just my 2 cents on the issue.....

AltemReilly
09/06/2005, 16:48
So, is Prof. Zoom one of the starter figures? I thought he was a unique...

Zoom is a mail-away figure from Wizard/Inquest and therefore will not be pulled from a booster.

lchestnut81
09/06/2005, 17:44
I really like the new Flash, but unless I am lucky enough to pull swingline, he will have problems. I think everyone wants to pull a Superman, I myself would love to pull Vet. Darkseid, I would love a darkenss within with him just because it seems like that would be something for him.

Funky Jett
09/06/2005, 18:51
As much a I agree that Bat's and Supes from this set would be a great team for the marque, unless your venue allows for 400pt or higher teams in a marque...the veteran Supes and any form of Bat's wouldn't fit.
The marquee must be 300 pts, since 1) It's a qualifying event again (so no house rules), and 2) you cannot use house rules in marquees anymore anyway per Approved Play.

Bladej
09/06/2005, 18:53
As much a I agree that Bat's and Supes from this set would be a great team for the marque, unless your venue allows for 400pt or higher teams in a marque...the veteran Supes and any form of Bat's wouldn't fit.

You're right, they wouldn't fit. I guess it should be noted, though, that marquee tournaments are not allowed to be house ruled in any shape, form, or fashion. 300 points and you have to follow everything by the book. (this is due to them being invitationals, as well)

SpakSpang
09/06/2005, 22:59
If you want to make a Superman/Batman Team. I think I would want to do Rookie Superman with Experienced Batman for an good 2 person team fight.

Batman can Outwit and INCAP...and Superman can play clean up.

Or if you want you could go with Rookie Batman and then add in a Robin or something...for added support.

The point is a Batman/Superman team is doable for a 300 point team, and would actually be a pretty viable team.

Personally I think I would prefer an Experienced Batman and Vet Wonder Woman Team myself.

AbeSapien
09/06/2005, 23:14
Terra
60 - Titans
The only figure in the set besides Raven to start with Barrier. That is probably Terra’s biggest contribution to any team. Force Blast and Quake to start with won’t get you much, but Barrier will be great. In fact, since her better clicks are mid dial, feel free to push (on the first click only) to put up Barrier twice. (Keeping in mind that if you push to put up Barrier on the second click you’ll push off the power and the barrier will come down!)
Mid dial Terra has a nice combo with Pulse Wave and 4 damage. If she’s set up with just a single opponent in range she can really devastate. But even against multiple opponents she can do some real damage with PW. And most likely she’ll end up on PW after taking a hit, so you’ll get to retaliate nicely.
Unfortunately on her best click she’s also pretty much defenseless, so don’t count on getting a PW attack off more than once.
All around, she has some uses, most of all Barrier, but the chances of getting a big PW attack to work are kinda slim. As such, I can’t put too much stock in her.
U - ***


When you consider how many Titans are in this set, you should totally have the chance to play her and make her effective.

AbeSapien
09/06/2005, 23:22
Also remember that you can outwit and then have poison activate, so joker can handle those figs with toughness as long as he has some mastermind fodder.


The Joker
78 / 88 / 107 – All Batman Enemy
Like Vet Robin, this figure offers you stealthed Outwit, plus a slew of other powers. His rookie isn’t overwhelming for the points, since his 9 AV is just ok and the 4 range isn’t going to worry anyone. He ends up being a really difficult to kill Outwitter. Not really worth 78 points in a sealed event. Although he’ll undoubtedly see a lot of play anyway because people will be swayed by that Outwit.
The Exp is much better for only a 10 point increase. AV is up to a more impressive 10, he keeps Outwit a little longer, has more Perplex at the end, and his range is up to a respectable (if not frightening) six.
If you can keep him next to someone he can Mastermind damage to, he can be deadly for a long while. You might not get a lot of use out of his Poison though, there’s a lot of Toughness going around in this set.
Vet Joker is slightly better than the Exp, but is a lot of points for a little improvement. His high 11 AV will probably help much more on constructed Batman Enemy teams than it will in this format. And his 3 damage is far lower than many other figures near or below his cost. His big saving grace is the Outwit, which will wreak havoc on your opponent’s strategy. That alone raises the bar for him.
R - **
E - ****
V - ***

I Am The Game
09/06/2005, 23:34
The Joker
78 / 88 / 107 – All Batman Enemy
Like Vet Robin, this figure offers you stealthed Outwit, plus a slew of other powers. His rookie isn’t overwhelming for the points, since his 9 AV is just ok and the 4 range isn’t going to worry anyone. He ends up being a really difficult to kill Outwitter. Not really worth 78 points in a sealed event. Although he’ll undoubtedly see a lot of play anyway because people will be swayed by that Outwit.
R - **
E - ****
V - ***

Has no one ever played a Whitney Frost LE? Joker is an affordable figure in a 300 point tournament, and the only legal figure in constructed tournaments with the first click Stealth/Poison/Mastermind/Outwit combination. Every turn, he Outwits your defense and Poisons you. No roll, no escape, just a kick in the teeth every turn. If he decides to attack while your Impervious is gone, then he's dealing 3 natural clicks on top of that. If you fail to breakaway from him, you're dead meat. 4 range? So what, he's supposed to be in close! Give the rookie at least three stars, people!

AZS
09/07/2005, 00:48
Give the rookie at least three stars, people!
"People"?
This isn't a committee writing these, its just me.


As for the belief that mastermind will protect the Joker when he's in close combat, you can just target the figure he's using as mastermind fodder.

Take a turn or two to eliminate the laughing man's damage sponge, then take out the Joker.

You might take a click or three of poison in the process, but the payoff is 78 points for the Joker plus the points for his fodder. That's a pretty good trade off.

I stand by my two stars.

LanaKent
09/07/2005, 02:21
How about some more advice on how to take down the veteran Superman? He looks almost unstopable.

XStreme
09/07/2005, 04:54
How about some more advice on how to take down the veteran Superman? He looks almost unstopable.

A combination of an outwitter, Blackfire/Starfire, and a healer...the funny thing I think a theme team would be your best bet...V Robin, Starfire, and a Raven and a piece to tie up Superman a turn while you have his HSS outwitted...I'm trying to figure out any other solid strategies for taking him out.


Good review azs!