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View Full Version : Marquee Primer HeroClix A to Z: DC ICONS Marquee Primer - Part 3


AZS
09/07/2005, 12:55
Part – 3: The Cards

Welcome to another Marquee Primer review, and the first for an all new “Base Set!”

There is no Pre-Release for this set, and the Marquee is still a few weeks away, but that doesn’t mean we can’t play in a few friendly sealed games before then.

Since the set is smaller than a regular expansion, I’ll be reviewing it in 3 parts:
Part 1 – The first half of the set
Part 2 – The second half of the set, including uniques
Part 3 – The cards

* Since you can’t play the Starter pack figures in the Marquee, I’ll be reviewing those in a separate article later.

click on replies below to read the review.

AZS
09/07/2005, 12:56
Today’s review looks at the Cards in Icons. This is the 4th set to include the extra item, so they’re not quite as new or confusing, and are even starting to be seriously considered winning pieces in constructed games.


Feats, Battlefield Conditions, and Bystander tokens -

It used to be that the common ‘fodder’ type generic figures were the ones that you would use to fill out a team in a sealed tournament. But for this set the “common” figures are all of the figures. So anything goes, and it falls to the tokens and Feat cards to help you round out your team.

Keep in mind though that you will only get 1 card per booster (and don’t toss out the box with your card still inside!), so the likelihood of getting exactly the card you want for a specific character will be rare. Still, that doesn’t mean that you can’t use some of these cards with a lot of different figures, and pulling the right Feat or Battlefield Condition can help elevate so-so figures to much better ones.

**NOTE** all of these cards are still new, and many questions surrounding them have yet to be officially FAQ’d or even answered. So I am interpreting the cards as best I can, having reviewed the information I could find online, and I apologize in advance if I make a mistake. But I’m *sure* people will be quick to correct me if I did.


Feat Cards

Brilliant Tactician
Cost – 20
Prerequisites – Outwit & Perplex
Choose a character. Outwit does not need to show in the character’s stat slot in order for the character to use this feat.

When the character uses Perplex, it may affect every target friendly character within 10 squares of it that shares a team ability with it. The character must have clear line of fire to each target.

There are only two characters in the set eligible for this feat: Joker and U Ra’s al Ghul.
Neither of them start with Perplex, so you have to push or take damage to get to it, and they’re two thirds of all the Batman Enemies in the set to begin with. So I’m seeing a 99% chance that this card will not get any good use in a single marquee, anywhere.

(However, between the Joker and Ra’s new 11 AV, and the number of Bat enemies who can use this card, we may see a resurgence of Batman enemy constructed theme teams!)

Darkness Within
Cost – 15
Prerequisites – None
(Optional) Once per turn before this character makes an attack, deal 1 pushing damage to a single target friendly character adjacent to the character; this is not an attack: The character gets +1 to its damage value for that attack. The friendly target does not receive an action token for this pushing damage.

I kinda know what the intent of this card was, but it got a little lost in translation.
Even so, this is a convenient, if somewhat pricey way to activate figures with an activation click. Since there aren’t many of those in this set, I don’t see this card getting a lot of play in the Marquee.

Divebomb
Cost – 10
Prerequisites – Flight
Modifier: - 2 to Attack
Choose a character. When soaring, the character may make close combat attacks against grounded characters.

There are a number of flying figures in this set with Charge, so this feat could be a big help to them. Even for the couple of flyers without Charge, they would be able to be adjacent to a grounded, zero range opposing figures and be safe from attack and still make attacks themselves.

Keep in mind though that you can’t soar indoors. So if you end up on an indoor map this will be a wasted 10 points!

Sidekick
Cost – 10
Prerequisites – None
Choose two characters: The first character must have a point value at least twice that of the second character. The two characters must be adjacent in order to use this feat. Neither character may carry the other.

(Optional) The second character uses the first character’s defense value instead of its own when it is attacked by an opposing character.

This might be a little confusing to read, but if you can pull it off, there are number of high defense, high cost figures in this set that could help out a sidekick.
The only kicker, neither figure can carry the other, so be careful not only about using this yourself, but watch for your opponent to forget about this caveat during a game!

Siphon Power
Cost – 20
Prerequisites – Wildcard TA
Choose a character. This character has the following team ability instead of any team ability for team symbols printed on its base:

Once at the beginning of each player’s turn, this character may choose and use on that turn any team ability that any figure on the battle map possesses. This team ability follows all other rules for the wild card team ability.

There are no wildcards in this set, so this feat is moot for the Marquee.

Slippery
Cost – 15
Prerequisite – Combat Reflexes, Defend, or a defense of 17 (or better)
Choose a character.
The character ignores other characters’ Plasticity, and it fails to break away only on a result of 1.

There are a number of figures in the set with 17 defenses, but most of them only have that for their first click.
Surprisingly, even Combat Reflexes is scarce, and Defend is nonexistent in this set.
The few figures that could really use this feat can break away for free anyway.
Flash – thanks to HSS. Robin with Leap/Climb, and V Superman with HSS.

In fact, the two best figures for this card are E Superman and U Lex Luthor.
Keeping in mind the change to ranged combat rules that say shooters cannot shoot out of close combat, and this card might be worth its 15 points if it means your big gun won’t be tied up by a 39 point Aquaman for 2 turns!

Submerged
Cost – 5
Prerequisite – Aquatic Movement.
(Optional) When the character occupies water terrain, lines of fire drawn to it are blocked.

Well, there’s only 1 figure in the set that can use this, Aquaman, so if you have the points you might as well put it on him. I haven’t seen the Icons map so I can’t say if there’s even any water terrain on there, but with the limited amount of water on all the other maps, I can’t see this card working more than occasionally.
Also, even though it may seem perfectly obvious to anyone who reads the card that this should be a counter for the Superman and Ultimates TA, somehow it has been ruled that those abilities can indeed pierce Submerged. Because really, the game needed to allow those team abilities yet another advantage.
(hey, can you tell I think that’s a dumb ruling?)

Swingline
Cost – 10
Prerequisite – Boot speed symbol
Modifier: + 1 to speed
Choose a character. The character ignores hindering terrain for movement purposes. If the character succeeds at a ranged combat attack against a target opposing character with the wing symbol speed symbol, the target gains Earthbound until the beginning of its controller’s next turn.

First and foremost, this card lets grounded figures ignore terrain for movement. That can be pretty big for getting around. So this will probably see a lot of play on that point alone.
The added bonus is that you can ground opposing flyers as well. This would be a great card on Blackfire – she could Running Shot through hindering without being slowed down, and ground fliers with her great ranged attack.
Veteran Robin would also be good with this just so he could hide using Stealth but not be hindered by terrain.

Unstoppable
Cost – 5
Prerequisite – Super Strength
The character ignores the effects of hindering terrain for movement purposes. When the character is given a move action, as a free action the character may make one close combat attack targeting one blocking terrain feature. The character may continue the rest of its movement, if any, after making the attack.

There’s only 1 grounded figure in the set to start with Super Strength; Aquaman! So if you pull this card to play on him, he’ll get to ignore even regular hindering terrain.
Cyborg is the other grounded figure with Super Strength, but he doesn’t start with it, and only has it for 2 clicks.

Besides that, there are a number of flyers with SS, so even though they won’t benefit from the movement portion of the card they’ll still be able to easily bust through walls.

Lastly, this was just pointed out to me recently; You can’t use this card to break through a wall and Charge a target on the same movement. Using this card to break down walls is a Move action, while Charge is a Power action. Bummer.



Battlefield Condition Cards

Infiltration (BFC)
When placing characters at the beginning of the game, characters with Phasing/Teleport, Smoke Cloud, or Stealth showing in their stat slots may be placed into hindering terrain up to half their unmodified speed values away from their starting areas. In addition, characters with the dolphin speed symbol may be placed in water terrain up to half their unmodified speed values from their starting areas.

This can be a good way to get your figures out and set up quickly. However, this will also forfeit ‘First Turn Immunity’ for those figures. On the other hand, it could also be a good gambit to entice your opponent to over-reach, or to put their own figures out there as targets for you.
The best figures to play with this BFC are V Robin, Batman, and Joker, all of whom start with Outwit and Stealth. Getting them out a few squares could give them a head start on lining up their Outwit.


Internal Strife
Characters get +1 to their attack values whenever they make close or ranged combat attacks against opposing characters with which they share the same team symbol.

If used, this will come into play a lot in this tournament, mainly because everyone will be playing with most of the same figures. Keep in mind that this is just about the most perfectly balanced BFC in the game. Automatically if you get an advantage over an opposing figure, they get exactly the same advantage on you!
(Unlike, say, War Zone or Crosswinds where you can build a team that isn’t hurt by this.)
This will be a tricky BFC to play, and be careful that it doesn’t come back to bite you.

Madness
Critical hits are critical misses instead, and vice versa. When a character uses Support, the target is healed of 1 fewer damage on a critical hit.

There is absolutely no point to this BFC other than to get the chance to say “psyche!” when your opponent rolls a crit hit against you. Other than that, it’s a total waste.

Ordinary Day
Cancels one BFC.

Well, if you pull it you can play it. But since most of the BFC’s are pretty evenly balanced to help or hurt both teams equally, you could leave this aside and you probably won’t get burned.

Rally
Whenever the character with the highest point value remaining on your force is eliminated, remove one action token from all characters on your force, as applicable, and then remove the eliminated character from the game.

This could be an interesting BFC to play if you have a fairly large team (4 or more figures). Since if you’re playing one big gun and 1 or 2 pieces to fill out your team, when you lose that big gun you’re pretty much done for.
But on teams with more figures, and thus all around lower point figures, losing one might not hurt too much and getting a ‘second wind’ on the rest could help.


Bystanders

Between all the Feat and BFC cards that people hope to pull, the Bystanders tend to get overlooked. However, they can be a great asset in a sealed game, or any game for that matter.

Lucius Fox
L-RON
Snapper Carr
4 points, 0 Range

These figures are all minor variations on the same stats; low AV, low->moderate defense, and 1 damage.

They’re really not on the team for anything more than to take a shot and die. Use them as tie up pieces or to block LOS to your figure for a turn while they rest and clear. If you are lucky enough to ever be in position to make an attack with them, and then even luckier that the attack hits, more power to you. But for the most part they’re little more than a nuisance.
Their best use in the Marquee will be to block LOS from an opponent’s Outwit (But make sure the token figure is out of the outwitter’s actual attack range.)
This will either eliminate Outwit, or force your opponent to reposition. (Or possibly kill the token.) Either way, you’ve forced your opponent to take an action they didn’t want to.
Besides blocking LOS, they are also good for tying up rangers. Then your opponent has to choose between wasting an attack trying to KO the token, or attempt to break away. This is particularly effective against figures with Running Shot or Charge. They’ll wonder if its worth it to risk rolling to break and possibly wasting an action altogether!

Lian Harper
1 point, 0 range

Well, there you have it folks, the first 1 point pog in the game, and that is not necessarily a good thing.
But for this format it means a really cheap version of what the 4 point pogs can do for you. Even worse since your opponent will really be annoyed if they get tied up by, or forced to waste an attack against something that will only net them 1 lousy point.
Since Lian is so cheap, one thing you can use her for is to push to death to get out of the way. Use her as a shield for one turn, and if the figure she’s blocking for doesn’t have Running Shot, just push Lian to get out of the way and take your shot. You only lose 1 point. :)

Renee Montoya
5 points, 6 range

Well, for only 1 point more than most of the tokens, Renee gets a moderate ranged attack!
However, her attack and defense values are in the toilet, so good luck with that.
Still, at only 5 points she’s not so expensive that you can’t use her as fodder. And if she can get off an attack and ping someone, you’ll be jumping for joy. So give her a shot.

Maggie Sawyer
10 Points, 6 range, 2 targets

At 10 points Maggie is too costly to use as fodder or cheap blocking. A 10 point token means a 20 point deficit for you if she’s KOed. (10 points up for them, 10 points down for you!)
She is somewhat useful thanks to Willpower, and moreso thanks to double target and 2 damage. Mostly this will be good for hedging your bets. Pick 2 targets with different defenses and see what happens.
So she’s good for a ranged attack or two, unfortunately her defense is so pathetic that pretty much any figure in the set, even clicked down half their dial, will have to roll a Crit Miss to have any chance of missing. With those odds, chances are she won’t last 4 turns into a game. If you play her and have good luck with her, more power to you. But for the rest, try to find a better use for those 10 points if you can, because she’ll probably end up being a liability.

fatfinley
09/07/2005, 13:03
I hate the 1 pt pog

lukebuchanan
09/07/2005, 13:09
Just waiting for numerous GL's to be surrounded with multiple Lian's. Or worse, Avengers Thunderbolting to GL's toting multiple Lian's.

Live out your favorite comic-book battles :confused: !

Luke B. diggin' the review, as always

nu tengu
09/07/2005, 13:11
I thought Divebomb had a penalty of -2 on your AV?

And about Rally. After your highest costing figure KOs and the card is activated. Is it still applicable when your second highest costing figure is KO-ed??? Or is it a one time use only kinda thing?

Nighthawk
09/07/2005, 13:11
Nice review Aaron.

I agree that neutering submerged, given it's minimal uselfulness to begin with while helping Ultimates, etc is a poor idea.

I dislike the 1 point pog too.

CarlosMucha
09/07/2005, 13:13
what? then in this set we only have 5 BFC? and 7 Feats??? I'm still waiting the BFC number 6 :ermm:

AZS
09/07/2005, 13:16
I thought Divebomb had a penalty of -2 on your AV? You are correct. I just double checked the card on WK site, and apparently these old eyes are failing me. Thanks for pointing that out, and I've fixed it in the review.

And about Rally. After your highest costing figure KOs and the card is activated. Is it still applicable when your second highest costing figure is KO-ed??? Or is it a one time use only kinda thing?I believe you can keep using the BFC for each "highest" point figure.
Although its not too bright if your opponent keeps KOing them in order!

Darth Sabre
09/07/2005, 13:23
I hate the 1 pt pog

What's wrong with a 1 point pog?

Great review Azs!

Big ED
09/07/2005, 13:23
Great Review Azs!

I thought first turn immunity covered Inflitration?

ED

ol_Dut
09/07/2005, 13:28
The only feat I was really looking forward to in this set was Submerged - it made the seemingly pointless aquatic movement have a purpose in life. And what a great purpose, indeed. Since the ruling on it, however, I wouldn't use Submerged in a tourney unless it had a zero point cost, and even then I'd probably skip it just out of spite. I'm hoping the powers that be recognize this gaffe and change their minds. Until then, in my house neither the Ultimates nor the Superman TA's will allow anyone to penetrate Submerged.

Nice work on this series of articles as always, azs. Lots of cool stuff to look forward to in this set!

Glen Quagmire
09/07/2005, 13:29
Yes, Infiltration is covered by first turn immunity. Hair 10 (Free him!) has it on his Icons FAQ on the WK site.

Another good set of reviews, azs!

Scooterman
09/07/2005, 13:35
Do Sidekick points go on both figures, or just one...which one? If both is it 10 each, and does your opponent need to knock out both to get those points?

Phantom
09/07/2005, 13:48
Just waiting for numerous GL's to be surrounded with multiple Lian's. Or worse, Avengers Thunderbolting to GL's toting multiple Lian's.

Live out your favorite comic-book battles :confused: !

Luke B. diggin' the review, as always
Wouldn't it actually be in character for R Sinestro to surround himself with multiple Lians? I mean, what a despicable tyrant, surrounding himself with children and forcing the heroes to attack them to get to him.

As for the Lians themselves... well, that's why Sgt. Rock has Energy Explosion. :laugh:

AZS
09/07/2005, 13:52
Yes, Infiltration is covered by first turn immunity. Hair 10 has it on his Icons FAQ on the WK site.

Another good set of reviews, azs!Well, that doesn't make much sense since first turn imunity is supposed to cover figures in your starting area, but thanks for pointing it out. I missed that bit.

Quebbster
09/07/2005, 13:54
Great job, as always.
One question though: I was under the impression that Infiltration and Madness were starter exclusive BFCs - at least, it says so on the website.
If so, doesn't that mean that they won't be availible for the Marquee?

Kurenai
09/07/2005, 14:03
I'm fairly sure that first turn immunity still applies to Infilitrated figures as well..

Since when the marquee occurs, Icons rules will be in effect, so you play BFC BEFORE you place figures..

1st Turn immuntiy states something like "May not attack figures that are still in thier original starting positions" It says nothing about 'starting area'

CarlosMucha
09/07/2005, 14:05
mm soo, there is out a number 6 bfc or not??

JRS4
09/07/2005, 14:10
Slippery
Cost – 15
Prerequisite – Combat Reflexes, Defend, or a defense of 17 (or better)
Choose a character.
The character ignores other characters’ Plasticity, and it fails to break away only on a result of 1.

There are a number of figures in the set with 17 defenses, but most of them only have that for their first click.
Surprisingly, even Combat Reflexes is scarce, and Defend is nonexistent in this set.
The few figures that could really use this feat can break away for free anyway.
Flash – thanks to HSS. Robin with Leap/Climb, and V Superman with HSS.

In fact, the two best figures for this card are E Superman and U Lex Luthor.
Keeping in mind the change to ranged combat rules that say shooters cannot shoot out of close combat, and this card might be worth its 15 points if it means your big gun won’t be tied up by a 39 point Aquaman for 2 turns!


I don't know if this has been changed.. but the card reads on the Wizkids site that the Prerequisite are Combat Reflexes, Defend, or a defense value greater than 17
Not equal to or greater.

Which means the only figure to use it based on Defense would be E or V Supes. And seeing as V Supes has HSS that would be a waste.

Just thought I would point that out. Other than that I really have appriecated your reviews of the set for the marquie..

Thanks

LeaLu
09/07/2005, 14:13
I thought "First Turn Immunity" referred to figures in their starting position (not the same thing as starting area). That would explain why Infiltration would still be covered- as long as the figure doesn't move from where it started (or if it moves, it still ends its movement in its starting position), it would be safe from attack.

Prophet22192
09/07/2005, 14:13
Out of curiosity, where did you gte the pogs from? They're not up on the WK site yet.

LeaLu
09/07/2005, 14:15
I don't know if this has been changed.. but the card reads on the Wizkids site that the Prerequisite are Combat Reflexes, Defend, or a defense value greater than 17
Not equal to or greater.

Which means the only figure to use it based on Defense would be E or V Supes. And seeing as V Supes has HSS that would be a waste.

Just thought I would point that out. Other than that I really have appriecated your reviews of the set for the marquie..

Thanks

Well, Lex has 18 defense... for 1 click. Still, it's a click where you don't want him to get tied down or tied up.

Breyker
09/07/2005, 14:15
I feel kind of dirty, since I will be using Lian Harper with her dad...a lot, and of course she will suffer the same fate that Franklin Richards always seems to face, an evil clone of his dad or mother always seems to kill him.

Phantom
09/07/2005, 14:16
I don't know if this has been changed.. but the card reads on the Wizkids site that the Prerequisite are Combat Reflexes, Defend, or a defense value greater than 17
Not equal to or greater.

Which means the only figure to use it based on Defense would be E or V Supes. And seeing as V Supes has HSS that would be a waste.

Just thought I would point that out. Other than that I really have appriecated your reviews of the set for the marquie..

Thanks
Lex starts with an 18 defense, too.

But yeah, most of the feats seem pretty limited, if not useless, for this marquee. Swingline will be awesome, but that's about it.

Breyker
09/07/2005, 14:17
Well, Lex has 18 defense... for 1 click. Still, it's a click where you don't want him to get tied down or tied up.


Don't forget to that Cheeta is a good candidate for Slippery, 17 defense with charge :)

krusticlese
09/07/2005, 14:19
I'm fairly sure that first turn immunity still applies to Infilitrated figures as well..

Since when the marquee occurs, Icons rules will be in effect, so you play BFC BEFORE you place figures..

1st Turn immuntiy states something like "May not attack figures that are still in thier original starting positions" It says nothing about 'starting area'



Well that's just plain silly... consider this:

First turn immunity was introduced due to the infiltrate power that showed up in Mech Warrior, and was a way to prevent figures that were still in the starting area from being attacked. If your opponent had infiltrated figures, they were still fair game to be attacked on the first turn.


Nothing like doing a little homework before making a ruling, right? :tired:


Submerged, Infiltrate, wildcards copying alt. TA's... add them all to the list of bad Hair days for Heroclix.

krusticlese
09/07/2005, 14:25
And another thing I noticed about the review...


Slippery can only be assigned if you have a defense value higher than 17.

So the minimum defense value would be an 18 to put the feat on a figure without the combat reflexes/ defend prerequisite.


Looks like there'll be no slippery cheetah's in the marquee!

Breyker
09/07/2005, 14:25
Don't forget to that Cheeta is a good candidate for Slippery, 17 defense with charge :)
Pay no attention I am a moron....

Sink74
09/07/2005, 14:36
I don't know about the rest of you, but nothing makes me feel quite as heroic as using a truthful, law abiding citizen as a tackling dummy. Oh, well. At least none of them are blind...

JRS4
09/07/2005, 14:36
Lex starts with an 18 defense, too.

But yeah, most of the feats seem pretty limited, if not useless, for this marquee. Swingline will be awesome, but that's about it.

hummm.... I missed that... oops.. Thanks for pointing that out.

Deathlok23
09/07/2005, 15:35
The Bystander Tokens are now up at WizKids. BTW azs, you missed Speed Saunders in your review. Nice stats and just maybe worth his 9 points.

russianspy1234
09/07/2005, 15:48
why no star ratings?

Funky Jett
09/07/2005, 15:52
Today’s review looks at the Cards in Icons. This is the 4th set to include the exDivebomb
Cost – 10
Prerequisites – Flight
Modifier: - 2 to Attack
Choose a character. When soaring, the character may make close combat attacks against grounded characters.

There are a number of flying figures in this set with Charge, so this feat could be a big help to them. Even for the couple of flyers without Charge, they would be able to be adjacent to a grounded, zero range opposing figures and be safe from attack and still make attacks themselves.

Keep in mind though that you can’t soar indoors. So if you end up on an indoor map this will be a wasted 10 points!
Per the rules, there are now 3 map types -- All Outdoors (the Park map), All Indoors (the Warehouse map), and a combination of the two (the Mansion map). It is my understanding you are allowed to soar on the outdoor portion of the combo maps. I haven't seen the starter maps yet, but you may not be using them for your marquee. You could have a combo map, so there is hope for Divebomb still!

Wolverine_Hulk
09/07/2005, 15:52
Great Review!!!

AZS
09/07/2005, 15:56
The Bystander Tokens are now up at WizKids. BTW azs, you missed Speed Saunders in your review. Nice stats and just maybe worth his 9 points.Speed Saunders is the marquee participation prize. Given away at the event. So he won't be tournament legal in that game.

:)

WhiteRabbit909
09/07/2005, 16:07
what? then in this set we only have 5 BFC? and 7 Feats??? I'm still waiting the BFC number 6 :ermm:

Bad news, CarlosMucha. The whole set is on the WizKids site. There is only 5 BFC in the set.

BYC
09/07/2005, 16:22
Pogs...ugh.

1 point pog, bigger ugh.

Icons might be the worse Marquee format ever.

ludd_gang
09/07/2005, 16:31
Slippery can only be assigned if you have a defense value higher than 17.

So the minimum defense value would be an 18 to put the feat on a figure without the combat reflexes/ defend prerequisite.




Which is good because figs with 18+ defenses really need a hand up in the metagame. :ermm:

I dunno. I'm kind of :ermm: about the cardboard inserts since odds are stout I'll get a Flash Thompson pog. Infiltration and Madness come only in the starter, so 3 BFC's. Why 2 repeat feats? Also, feats are generally irrelevant in sealed, so score another "why?".

Oh well, beter than no inserts. :)

shock man x
09/07/2005, 16:40
Yes, Infiltration is covered by first turn immunity. Hair 10 (Free him!) has it on his Icons FAQ on the WK site.

Another good set of reviews, azs!


One bad ruling after another....

freakazoid_x
09/07/2005, 17:10
It was my impression that pogs counted as Uniques and you couldn't have a GL carry multiple of the same pog because that would imply that more than one of the same Unique was on the board.

m0rpheus
09/07/2005, 17:14
It was my impression that pogs counted as Uniques and you couldn't have a GL carry multiple of the same pog because that would imply that more than one of the same Unique was on the board.
Only with house rules (ie Highlander). Thats why you can have 40 Mystic copying Mary Jane pogs on the same team.

AZS
09/07/2005, 17:25
Also, feats are generally irrelevant in sealed, so score another "why?". I dissagree. Yeah its tough getting specific combo Feat / Figures like Aquaman and Submerged. But in Legacy Armor Piercing was good for anyone. In Fan Forces Unstoppable was very useful and every player was garunteed to be able to use Shake Off if they pulled it.
Even in Icons the Sidekick feat will help a lot of figures and Swingline will also have its share of fans.

Degrelle
09/07/2005, 17:38
Ugh! Vet Doom surrounding himself with 1 pt pogs and masterminding his damage to them. Copy the Suicide Squad TA and he sacrifices them in droves to become invincible! 20 pts of pogs pushing themselves each turn to oblivion in the rear to provide healing for Doom.

Oh the humanity.

Of course just track down the Suicide Squad TA and destroy THEM, but you get the idea.

Miraclo
09/07/2005, 17:59
Another excellent, much-appreciated pre-marquee review, azs! I'll still likely play as if ignorant of all of the pointers and dials, but you've done your part. ;)

I wasn't aware of Madness and Infiltration being something exclusive to the starters, but that at least explains where mine came from. I'd thought it was just stuck to my Internal Strife card at first and separated while I was moving things around to look at my pulls. Presumably the two of them weren't supposed to be in there... so... there's a random chase element in starters? Doesn't this bother anyone? At least I pulled the somewhat useful Infiltrate instead of the useless Madness, but I'd have been ticked off had it been the other way around.

fecundity
09/07/2005, 18:21
It was my impression that pogs counted as Uniques...

They are listed as "Unique" rarity in the figure gallery at the WizKids site. Is this a data entry error?

m0rpheus
09/07/2005, 18:24
Thanks for the revies Azs. My only worry is that you have posted them a little early as the marquee is still a few weeks away and the posts might get knocked off the front page before then when they are needed most.

Trick_Arrow
09/07/2005, 18:57
Excellent article, as usual.

There are a couple uses for Madness you forgot about, though.

1. To punish the lucky

2. To laugh at users of loaded dice

3. To scream “Up is down, black is white – Say good-bye to Bizarro World, Greg!” Cackle maniacally here.

I love that they included L-RON. He’s the man. Er, cybernetic life form.

I really like reading the marquee primers, even though there are never any official tournaments in my area. Thanks, azs! *gives cheesy grin to nearest camera* :grin:

Uknown352
09/07/2005, 20:18
guys the 1 pt pogs stats are

movement 4
attack 5
defense 7
damage 0

I would not be to worried about it.

Hellboy
09/07/2005, 20:19
aha!

but there WAS a pre-release.

sure; just barley, but the fun we had at Dragon*Con can attest to it.

I pulled a Lex Luthor in a Battle Royale, and he won it for me. A bit pricey for a regular sealed event, but so sweet.

I pulled a Flash in the 300 point sealed event, but lost to the cheese: sahll I tell you what to look out for? Superman, Darkseid & Raven. If someone gets their hands on all three in their draw; watch out people! The last two teams I fought consited of these peices and I went from third to nowhere in two rounds. the Superman TA running shot while carriing a Raven for PC & Barrier is just stupid. Stupidly brutal.

I Had alot of fun though.

so never say never: sometimes its unannounced!

ludd_gang
09/07/2005, 21:39
I dissagree. Yeah its tough getting specific combo Feat / Figures like Aquaman and Submerged. But in Legacy Armor Piercing was good for anyone. In Fan Forces Unstoppable was very useful and every player was garunteed to be able to use Shake Off if they pulled it.
Even in Icons the Sidekick feat will help a lot of figures and Swingline will also have its share of fans.

Actually, I thought I was agreeing with your review. BT, Unstoppable, Submerged, Slippery and Siphon Power are rarely if ever usable in Icons sealed. Darkness within... maybe with Darkseid, Aquaman or Cheetah. But yes, Sidekick, Swingline and Divebomb are all definitely usable. So generally speaking, I would say only about 1/3 of the feats will be used in sealed.

There are 3 BFC's (one of which is OD), 9 feats (only 3 of which are likely to be used in sealed) and 6 pogs. I suppose the set was designed not with sealed in mind. I'm not complaining, just surprised. I might mix in some FF boosters for the task, but I've really bought my fill of that expansion.

On the collecting end, I would have rather seen fewer pogs and more BFC's, but even if I only pull pogs I won't complain because I like any cardboard insert rather than none.

I am also very surprised to see the 1 pt pog and anticipate the aforementioned Suicide Squad abuse. I'm not terribly worried about meat shield abuse, though I expect she'll be the fare for many speedy taxis so they can maximize the returning rule of btb tie-up. (Though I am really glad to see btb back!)

Just expressing my druthers. :)

nightwingr
09/07/2005, 21:41
The One point Pog

There should never be another 299 or 399 point team again!

Glen Quagmire
09/07/2005, 22:09
aha!

but there WAS a pre-release.

sure; just barley, but the fun we had at Dragon*Con can attest to it.


Hey, as far as I'm concerned, any one who was able to buy Icons Wednesday instead of having to wait until Thursday got a pre-release. :ermm:

tyroclix
09/07/2005, 22:29
One bad ruling after another....

Not much of a ruling as its clearly stated in the rules. As Lealu pointed out - FTI applies to a figure's starting position. It never had anything to do with the first 2 rows on the map.

After all, Galactus was protected by FTI and he starts outside those first 2 rows...

Masopic
09/08/2005, 00:45
The One point Pog

There should never be another 299 or 399 point team again!

I actually cheered when I saw her point cost! I can't tell you how many times situations like those you've desribed have happened, to me...

XStreme
09/08/2005, 03:38
Well that's just plain silly... consider this:

First turn immunity was introduced due to the infiltrate power that showed up in Mech Warrior, and was a way to prevent figures that were still in the starting area from being attacked. If your opponent had infiltrated figures, they were still fair game to be attacked on the first turn.


Nothing like doing a little homework before making a ruling, right? :tired:

Um...they aren't mimicking this game after Mech Warrior so there is no 'homework' to do...yeah some things may be similiar but they are both miniature games so of course some things will be the same but we don't need to look at MW and go "oh let's make it the exact same in heroclix"

I'm glad Infilitrated characters still have first-turn immunity, otherwise it would be nearly useless to put them out there in the first place since so many characters have uber range these days and would be able to smack them in the face before you got a chance to do anything...

Great last part of the review, azs! I think Darkness Within also has a place with Regenners...I'd love to pull Starfire/Blackfire Darkness Within and a Raven...it would be a tag team with alot of options and would be fun to play.

Buddyhoss
09/08/2005, 11:37
Another excellent, much-appreciated pre-marquee review, azs! I'll still likely play as if ignorant of all of the pointers and dials, but you've done your part. ;)

I wasn't aware of Madness and Infiltration being something exclusive to the starters, but that at least explains where mine came from. I'd thought it was just stuck to my Internal Strife card at first and separated while I was moving things around to look at my pulls. Presumably the two of them weren't supposed to be in there... so... there's a random chase element in starters? Doesn't this bother anyone? At least I pulled the somewhat useful Infiltrate instead of the useless Madness, but I'd have been ticked off had it been the other way around.

Madness and Infiltration come in the starter, and as far as I've seen, ONLY in the starter, so you won't be seeing those in the marquee.

lchestnut81
09/08/2005, 11:53
I too am mad about submerged...I can see it though for Superman (the character because of the X-Ray vision, but on the other hand, this game isn't totally comic correct is it?)

I think the 1 point pog is funny!!! But it will be just as much of a hinderence as a help.

Beating up the 1 point little girl, isn't that child abuse!!????? :)

shock man x
09/08/2005, 21:52
Not much of a ruling as its clearly stated in the rules. As Lealu pointed out - FTI applies to a figure's starting position. It never had anything to do with the first 2 rows on the map.

After all, Galactus was protected by FTI and he starts outside those first 2 rows...


In Galactus' defense, when you played him on a force your starting area actually grew out to three so you could play him. Therefore, he was still in your starting area, your starting area was just bigger now.

I still think it should be for figs in the starting area. I'm not even to keen on a player moving out with a fig to pick up an object lets say and then moving back to where they were to regain the immunity. Little loopholes like that I though is what they where hoping to get rid of with rules clarifications.

XStreme
09/08/2005, 22:09
I still think it should be for figs in the starting area. I'm not even to keen on a player moving out with a fig to pick up an object lets say and then moving back to where they were to regain the immunity. Little loopholes like that I though is what they where hoping to get rid of with rules clarifications.

Hmm I never thought that was legal...I thought first turn immunity only applied if a character also hadn't taken an action yet. I think that is the way it should be....but I also think Infiltrated characters should have immunity in their starting position out on the field, otherwise it would be too dangerous to put your character out their most of the time.

George Smiley
09/09/2005, 01:04
Great last part of the review, azs! I think Darkness Within also has a place with Regenners...I'd love to pull Starfire/Blackfire Darkness Within and a Raven...it would be a tag team with alot of options and would be fun to play.

or the Superman/Raven draw

grey_zealot
09/09/2005, 07:48
Good article, sir. Love Marquee Primers, as always.

Question: Are you allowed to buy Starters for a Marquee event, like in regular Sealed events? (I've never been to a Marquee, and have only ever played in three Sealed events.)

If so, would/could you do a review of the Starter figures?

ludd_gang
09/09/2005, 16:23
Madness and Infiltration come in the starter, and as far as I've seen, ONLY in the starter, so you won't be seeing those in the marquee.


Actually, I pulled both in the first 4 boosters I opened.

oldmanshreda
09/09/2005, 19:01
Unstoppable
Cost – 5
Prerequisite – Super Strength
The character ignores the effects of hindering terrain for movement purposes. When the character is given a move action, as a free action the character may make one close combat attack targeting one blocking terrain feature. The character may continue the rest of its movement, if any, after making the attack.


Yeah, but Vet Supes has HSS so he can use option 1 to break a wall and zap someone on the other side before moving back to safety. I know it is only 1 character in the set, but this is a nasty combo. As if Black Adam needed more advantages, this feat makes him even better.

Old Man out

Darth Sabre
09/09/2005, 19:14
Good article, sir. Love Marquee Primers, as always.

Question: Are you allowed to buy Starters for a Marquee event, like in regular Sealed events? (I've never been to a Marquee, and have only ever played in three Sealed events.)

If so, would/could you do a review of the Starter figures?

You used to be able to, when you didn't know what you were getting in the starters.

grey_zealot
09/11/2005, 12:13
You used to be able to, when you didn't know what you were getting in the starters.

Ah. I wondered.

Knowing what is in the Icons Starter is exactly why I was asking. That's 200-points of nicely done figs.

So, for the reason you say, I guess I wouldn't be able to use a Starter.

XStreme
09/12/2005, 06:28
The main reason I think they don't let you use starters anymore isn't so much that you know what is in them(seeing as how everyone would have the option to get one) but that it would be pretty silly NOT to pick a booster as two of your boosters...at least in my personal opinion. :)

At the Icons Marquee you would get six characters: four with stealth, both outwit and perplex, and Charge...among the few other things you get with these very efficient pieces. AND that would only be 200 points of your team if you use ALL six, right there you are already overwhelming many of the teams at Marquee's because there is on average 3 to 4 pieces on a team, at least from what I've seen. And you wouldn't even have to use the figuers from the starter you didn't want! What an awesome team a Supes or Darksied and half your starter pack would make...

grey_zealot
09/12/2005, 08:56
The main reason I think they don't let you use starters anymore isn't so much that you know what is in them(seeing as how everyone would have the option to get one) but that it would be pretty silly NOT to pick a booster as two of your boosters...at least in my personal opinion. :)

At the Icons Marquee you would get six characters: four with stealth, both outwit and perplex, and Charge...among the few other things you get with these very efficient pieces. AND that would only be 200 points of your team if you use ALL six, right there you are already overwhelming many of the teams at Marquee's because there is on average 3 to 4 pieces on a team, at least from what I've seen. And you wouldn't even have to use the figuers from the starter you didn't want! What an awesome team a Supes or Darksied and half your starter pack would make...

Those are the exact reasons I wanted to play Starter. One Starter, one booster: If I were to pull one of the *few* Batman Enemies of the "regular" Icons characters (like Ra's or one of the other Jokers) I could at least get better use out of the TA. Heck, if I pulled a rookie Superman from the booster, I'd immediately use the Starter Bats, Robin, & Hawkgirl.

So, what you said. That's exactly the reason I asked.

Which would be cool for yet another type of tournament. Know what I mean? A "Sealed Starter" tournament, where you are supposed to buy a starter, and one or two boosters.

(It might help move more starters off the shelves. The venue owner I talk the most to says he only orders in two to three starters at a time. Apparently, most of the non-completist tourney players don't bother with buying starters.)

XStreme
09/12/2005, 18:13
Which would be cool for yet another type of tournament. Know what I mean? A "Sealed Starter" tournament, where you are supposed to buy a starter, and one or two boosters.

I hope I have the chance to at least play a fun game with the Starter figures at the New Guy Night...I thought the best way to do it would be to pair new guys up with each other and then pair their 'mentors' together with the focus being on the new guys' game but you would be playing one at the same time...have them go first and then you go and let your pupil in on what you were doing either secretly or just out in the open and then let them go again before you do...this way they are learning from the moves you make but aren't just copying them right after you.

Maybe I'm wrong though. :)

Buddyhoss
09/13/2005, 00:14
While I assume you could always buy the Icons Starter and play with it on New Guy Night, the word on the street was they were going to give away the old Universe Starter to "New Guys." I guess that's because it's Marvel and the Armor Wars expansion is Marvel? Lame-o.

XStreme
09/13/2005, 17:27
oh yeah good point Buddyhoss...I keep forgetting that.

Darth Sabre
09/13/2005, 17:44
While I assume you could always buy the Icons Starter and play with it on New Guy Night, the word on the street was they were going to give away the old Universe Starter to "New Guys." I guess that's because it's Marvel and the Armor Wars expansion is Marvel? Lame-o.

Yeah, that almost seems counter productive to me. BUT the figures are so good, that they are worth getting. And one cannver really turn down FREE figures can they?