tenketsu
12/07/2005, 15:07
First, my post:
Young Justice had it's rough spots, I'll grant. Peter David's very good, but he's not flawless. He was pretty great with humor, drama, and characterization--but sometimes his plots mis-fired. But overall it was a great book, and the fact that it was ended for a Teen Titans relaunch (that suspiciously included Cyborg, a resurrected Raven, and a name-reversioned Changeling ) under a different writer still frustrates me extremely. There's no humor in it anymore, and the characters from YJ suddenly and completely changed life-long ways of seeing, reacting to, and dealing with the world. You've got a character who deals with his pain, fear, and feelings of inadequacy with humor--and after an event that was much less traumatic than others he's been through, he suddenly becomes grim, withdrawn, and uncommunicative? Absolutely not. Character evolution is one thing. This is just the worst sort of betrayal of a character. Imagine something happens to Plastic Man and he becomes Batman-esque in attitude. ...Talking about what Johns did to Young Justice is just going to get me unreasonably angry, going to switch modes now.
Ok, you say you haven't read modern DC, until Johns, because it was terrible. Well, of course it was. DC has always been terrible. So has Marvel. And Image, and all other comic book companies. That is, if you go by the majority of the books they put out. I hate to break it to you, but the ratio of good products to bad is never favorable, in any entertainment industry--comics, books, movies, music, what have you. Early 90s through mid 90s was particularly bad for comic books... There were good books, but they were few and far between. But surprisingly enough, the late 90s and early 2000s were practically a renaissance--great writers putting out books right and left, at both companies(but still not encompassing the majority of the books, of course). Right now it's gotten back down to kind've a middling average...
Now, I've read some Silver Age stories here and there, but DC's stuff from then has always seemed... Hilariously bad. Plan 9 From Outer Space bad. Like watching a train wreck involving lots of clowns and mimes. On the other hand, the Golden Age DC stuff I've read was pretty decent... I have a feeling there _must_ be some reason besides nostalgia for liking Silver Age DC... So, please, point me at the good stuff so I can reverse this opinion.
But even if not, I still won't begrudge you getting some SA clix, as long as they don't flood the sets or whatever(most SA characters are represented as part of the REV set of a character anyway). I also wish they'd put all characters in their most recognizable costume/look, as long as it isn't for a different character who has the same name. Example: The Superboy we got should've been in his jacket, or one of the variants thereof--SA Superboy ought to be his own sculpt. Impulse should've gotten his Impulse costume... But if Kon and the SA Superboy _had_ been the same character, it should've been the SA sculpt. If that makes any sense. It's just more fair to more people that way.
And, as a reminder, I did really enjoy Johns' Hawkman, JSA, and Flash. It's just Titans and to a lesser extent GL: Rebirth that he bugs the heck out of me on. And GL: Rebirth was because while I love Hal and have no problem with him coming back, the explanation was _terrible_. Professional writers should know better, let alone good ones.
And then, Doc Nebula's response:
>>Young Justice had it's rough spots, I'll grant. Peter David's very good, but he's not flawless. He was pretty great with humor, drama, and characterization--but sometimes his plots mis-fired.
A great many people like Peter David. I used to, long ago. I think he's lost it, and I long since stopped giving his books a shot, and when you combine all that with the fact that Young Justice was mostly made of up (in my opinion) rotten Modern Age versions of beloved Silver Age characters, I might have spit occasionally in its direction, but I sure never read it. I have no opinion, really, on the quality of a book I haven't read, I just know, if it was by Peter David and it featured the new Superboy and Impulse, I gave it a gigantic miss, and don't regret it a little bit.
>> But overall it was a great book, and the fact that it was ended for a Teen Titans relaunch (that suspiciously included Cyborg, a resurrected Raven, and a name-reversioned Changeling ) under a different writer still frustrates me extremely.
Welcome to my world. That's EXACTLY how I feel about the first CRISIS and everything after. And a few things before, too, like the frickin' no good rotten New Teen Titans.
>>There's no humor in it anymore, and the characters from YJ suddenly and completely changed life-long ways of seeing, reacting to, and dealing with the world.
Again, welcome to my world. You're too young to realize just how disgusted all us Silver Age fans were when Wolfman brought out the New Teen Titans and had completely and utterly changed, almost beyond recognition, the personalities of every Silver Age character involved. We hated it, just as much as you kids apparently hate what Geoff Johns has done to your favorite rotten little brats from Young Justice.
However, there is a difference: the changes made to Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, and later, Speedy, were reprehensible ones meant to take heroic, idealistic Silver Age sidekicks and make them grim n gritty, angst filled Modern Age teen/twentyish heroes in their own right, "with attitude". Frankly, that sucked. Worse than this, Marv Wolfman is a dreadful and appalling writer, while Geoff Johns is a good one. Finally, the New Teen Titans was a circulation stunt. New X-MEN was the top selling comic in the world, and Wolfman boiled their success down to a formula and ruthlessly applied it to a beloved Silver Age concept. It was dreadful... and honestly, that's what the Modern Age was all about.
In the Silver Age, writers and artists cared about the characters they handled, and generally, they treated them more or less like real people. The stories were character driven. The Silver Age died and the Modern Age began when both comics companies got bought out by major corporations which began treating the characters as marketable commodities and potential franchises instead of real people. Everything became about test markets and market segments and it stopped being about stories that made sense. How many reboots has DC had, as the pencilpushers in charge sought the perfect formula to create maximum marketability to the current target demographic most likely to buy comic books? Wave after wave of reboots, not because anyone loved the characters or had any desire to treat them and/or their world as 'real', but simply because someone somewhere decided Kyle Rayner would, for a while, sell more copies of comic books to people with shorter attention spans than Hal Jordan and his fans?\
Anyway, I understand how you feel, trust me, I do. But Geoff Johns is an excellent writer who clearly loves the characters, and believe me, that is a HUGE step up from how all us Silver Age fans were treated at the beginning of the Modern Age. If Geoff Johns had been available to write every rebooted comic after the first CRISIS, us fans would have screamed a great deal less.
>>Ok, you say you haven't read modern DC, until Johns, because it was terrible. Well, of course it was. DC has always been terrible. So has Marvel. And Image, and all other comic book companies. That is, if you go by the majority of the books they put out. I hate to break it to you, but the ratio of good products to bad is never favorable, in any entertainment industry--comics, books, movies, music, what have you. Early 90s through mid 90s was particularly bad for comic books... There were good books, but they were few and far between.
You haven't read much of the Silver Age. In the Silver Age, more comics were good than bad. Honestly, it's that simple. Apparently, you did not like the 2D approach to superheroes that DC exemplified back then, and many people didn't... they were very childish, for the excellent reason that they were aimed at children, generally around the age of 8. I liked them when I was that age, and I like them fine again now as an adult, but I admit, I got pretty tired of them when I was a teenager and a young adult and thought I was too grown up and mature for all that baby stuff.
Marvel's Silver Age had the BEST stuff ever written in the genre... Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and later on, Steve Englehart and Steve Gerber. When Englehart went to DC in their late Silver Age, he created the best Batman stories EVER in his brief run on DETECTIVE. There has been good stuff since then, but the Silver Age really was a legendary time for quality superhero comics.
>>But surprisingly enough, the late 90s and early 2000s were practically a renaissance--great writers putting out books right and left, at both companies(but still not encompassing the majority of the books, of course).
Great writers? Feh. Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Peter David for a brief while when he started... maybe a couple more I can't think of write now... Kurt Busiek, when he was writing good stuff and not just jacking off into a word processor. Frank Miller, occasionally... well, maybe not by the 90s. No, sorry... the Modern Age has got nothing on the Silver Age. There's a REASON that DC's best current writer goes back and mines the Silver Age; that's where all the good ideas were.
>>Now, I've read some Silver Age stories here and there, but DC's stuff from then has always seemed... Hilariously bad. Plan 9 From Outer Space bad. Like watching a train wreck involving lots of clowns and mimes.
Again, that stuff is aimed at 9 year olds. Someday, if you live that long, you'll be old enough to regain a sense of whimsy and not take everything so seriously. Until then, you won't get it.
>>On the other hand, the Golden Age DC stuff I've read was pretty decent... I have a feeling there _must_ be some reason besides nostalgia for liking Silver Age DC... So, please, point me at the good stuff so I can reverse this opinion.
You won't get it. You have to appreciate the craft of creating a story, and how hard it is to draw really fantastic things clearly, to really grasp just how amazing a job the various Superman writers under Mort Weisinger were doing. One of the latter day Silver Age DC writers whose work I love the most is Cary Bates. He was a master of intricate plotting, and he had to be, since he was writing characters who could move faster than their opponents could think... and yet, month after month, he came up with original, engaging, entertaining, and well written stories for these guys. I'd point you to his work on Superman, Action, Flash, and Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes, but I'm sure you'd just regard it as Plan 9 From Outer Space bad, so there's no point to it.
>>But even if not, I still won't begrudge you getting some SA clix, as long as they don't flood the sets or whatever
Gee, that's sweet of you. Hear this now: if I win the lottery and buy WizKids, YOU will be lucky to get six Modern Age figs per expansion. That will be if I'm feeling generous. The Modern Age was built on the Silver Age, your lack of respect for the foundations of everything you love is, frankly, contemptible. When geezers like me say "I want an Earth 2 Superman" and you punk kids curl your lips at us, because God forbid you lose a spot that might be given to frickin' GNORT, you are betraying your vast immaturity. Earth 2 Superman is THE Superman, the guy who started it all, and without him, you'd have no frickin' Young Justice at all to whine about. It is a travesty to me that WizKids wastes plastic on dweeb clone manga Legionnaires I've never heard of, when they haven't given us an Ultra Boy or a Mon El yet. It is horribly disrespectful to the forebears of all the books you like.
>>The Superboy we got should've been in his jacket, or one of the variants thereof--SA Superboy ought to be his own sculpt.
SA Superboy SHOULD have his own sculpt, I grant you. And no idiotic Modern Age rip offs should be done until the classic Silver Age character who made YOUR retarded version possible has been done first. That would be fair.
>>Impulse should've gotten his Impulse costume...
No Impulse should have been done before we got an SA Kid Flash. Period.
>> And GL: Rebirth was because while I love Hal and have no problem with him coming back, the explanation was _terrible_. Professional writers should know better, let alone good ones.
Honestly, you make me laugh. You sit down, look at everything that's been inflicted on Hal Jordan over the past twenty years, and then come up with a story to bring him back. If it's even remotely as internally consistent, sensible, and dutiful to the Green Lantern legacy as what Johns came up with, your talents are being wasted. You need to apply for a job at DC.
However, your talents aren't being wasted. DC is now looking for someone who loves the Silver Age, because the people in charge have recently realized -- as most Modern Age fans have not, and don't want to -- that all their good ideas originated in the Silver Age, and they should be hiring people that care about the Silver Age and who can get their characters and their universe back to some semblance thereof. That may offend many Modern Age fans, but us geezers have been waiting 20 years for them to get a clue.
Now WizKids just needs to get one, too.
Now, I noticed how you left off some things I said that put them into better context. It _seems_ as if the reason you did that was to make me appear more unreasonable than I am. But I'm hoping you merely did it for brevity's sake.
First off, I'm aware you didn't read Young Justice so you don't know the irony, but the Teen Titans/New Teen Titans compared to Young Justice/Teen Titans dichtonomy isn't the reversal you suggest it is. It's actually quite a bit more of a repeat. The Teen Titans inexplicably turned "grim-n-gritty" when they became New, and the fun went out of the book? Coincidentally, Young Justice also became drastically less humor and "fun" based, and turned the "grim-n-gritty" up several notches when they became the Teen Titans. Johns loves some of the characters he writes, but he didn't like the YJers enough to even research them before taking over, apparently. He wanted to write what he wanted to write, and he railroaded the characters into it.
I do, in fact, enjoy things regardless of whether they're marketed to children. This is because _well-crafted_ children's entertainment, should naturally appeal to adults as well. It's not that I simply "don't get it"--but that what I've seen of Silver Age DC just wasn't well-crafted. You did, however, point me to some Silver Age things to try, and I probably will--regardless of the fact that I felt the _way_ in which you did so was quite disrespectful to me. I also wasn't trying to get into a Silver Age or Modern Age pissing contest over which was better--just saying that the late 90s to early 2000s has been _a_ highlight of the Modern Age, not even necessarily the best. The mid to late 80s were also a highlight, of course.
Nevertheless, your saying the SA was where _all_ the good ideas were strikes me as the standard "Things were so much better in my day, everything's terrible now, kids today, blah blah blah" that should be promptly ignored and forgotten by sane people. We have quotes like that on historical record going back thousands of years. So unless you think things have really been going straight downhill since the Ice Age, they should be dismissed as nothing but rose-colored glasses. You(meaning all people) just couldn't see the bad when you were younger, and as you got older you naturally don't want to objectively analyze that time period. I do it too, like everyone else--but I know I do it, so I actively try not to.
Furthermore, I explained why I would accept some explicitly SA clix per set, but not too many--because most of the important SAers continued into the MA, and are represented within the REV sets of the figure. In many cases the costumes didn't even change much, if at all. I also said that whichever the most recognizable/important look for a character is, that's the one which should be sculpted--as long as it's actually the same character. SA Superboy and MA Superboy are two different characters--but if they _were_ the same, I said yours is the sculpt we should have. I don't see how this is offensive to you, except in that it's a reasonable compromise rather than just a complete capitulation.
You also said that, re:Superboy, they should just make new characters rather than change the old ones. Well, were that the case, there would only be one Flash and one Green Lantern--and they wouldn't be your SA ones. Superman would also be merely leaping about as opposed to flying, and Batman would be gunning down crooks. You may want to think that through more carefully. The GAers came before you SA whippersnappers came on the scene, afterall.
On top of all that, I also am not disrespectful to the past--I merely see it objectively. I see the Silver Age the same way I see classic Star Trek--good ideas, usually bad execution. However, my opinion of classic Star Trek is considerably more grounded, because I've seen all the episodes. I've only read random issues here and there of the Silver Age, so I freely admit that those could possibly be not indicative of the SA as a whole--in fact, since as I said there's always more bad than good, I actually suspect that there's good hiding in there somewhere. Which is why I asked for recommendations.
Young Justice had it's rough spots, I'll grant. Peter David's very good, but he's not flawless. He was pretty great with humor, drama, and characterization--but sometimes his plots mis-fired. But overall it was a great book, and the fact that it was ended for a Teen Titans relaunch (that suspiciously included Cyborg, a resurrected Raven, and a name-reversioned Changeling ) under a different writer still frustrates me extremely. There's no humor in it anymore, and the characters from YJ suddenly and completely changed life-long ways of seeing, reacting to, and dealing with the world. You've got a character who deals with his pain, fear, and feelings of inadequacy with humor--and after an event that was much less traumatic than others he's been through, he suddenly becomes grim, withdrawn, and uncommunicative? Absolutely not. Character evolution is one thing. This is just the worst sort of betrayal of a character. Imagine something happens to Plastic Man and he becomes Batman-esque in attitude. ...Talking about what Johns did to Young Justice is just going to get me unreasonably angry, going to switch modes now.
Ok, you say you haven't read modern DC, until Johns, because it was terrible. Well, of course it was. DC has always been terrible. So has Marvel. And Image, and all other comic book companies. That is, if you go by the majority of the books they put out. I hate to break it to you, but the ratio of good products to bad is never favorable, in any entertainment industry--comics, books, movies, music, what have you. Early 90s through mid 90s was particularly bad for comic books... There were good books, but they were few and far between. But surprisingly enough, the late 90s and early 2000s were practically a renaissance--great writers putting out books right and left, at both companies(but still not encompassing the majority of the books, of course). Right now it's gotten back down to kind've a middling average...
Now, I've read some Silver Age stories here and there, but DC's stuff from then has always seemed... Hilariously bad. Plan 9 From Outer Space bad. Like watching a train wreck involving lots of clowns and mimes. On the other hand, the Golden Age DC stuff I've read was pretty decent... I have a feeling there _must_ be some reason besides nostalgia for liking Silver Age DC... So, please, point me at the good stuff so I can reverse this opinion.
But even if not, I still won't begrudge you getting some SA clix, as long as they don't flood the sets or whatever(most SA characters are represented as part of the REV set of a character anyway). I also wish they'd put all characters in their most recognizable costume/look, as long as it isn't for a different character who has the same name. Example: The Superboy we got should've been in his jacket, or one of the variants thereof--SA Superboy ought to be his own sculpt. Impulse should've gotten his Impulse costume... But if Kon and the SA Superboy _had_ been the same character, it should've been the SA sculpt. If that makes any sense. It's just more fair to more people that way.
And, as a reminder, I did really enjoy Johns' Hawkman, JSA, and Flash. It's just Titans and to a lesser extent GL: Rebirth that he bugs the heck out of me on. And GL: Rebirth was because while I love Hal and have no problem with him coming back, the explanation was _terrible_. Professional writers should know better, let alone good ones.
And then, Doc Nebula's response:
>>Young Justice had it's rough spots, I'll grant. Peter David's very good, but he's not flawless. He was pretty great with humor, drama, and characterization--but sometimes his plots mis-fired.
A great many people like Peter David. I used to, long ago. I think he's lost it, and I long since stopped giving his books a shot, and when you combine all that with the fact that Young Justice was mostly made of up (in my opinion) rotten Modern Age versions of beloved Silver Age characters, I might have spit occasionally in its direction, but I sure never read it. I have no opinion, really, on the quality of a book I haven't read, I just know, if it was by Peter David and it featured the new Superboy and Impulse, I gave it a gigantic miss, and don't regret it a little bit.
>> But overall it was a great book, and the fact that it was ended for a Teen Titans relaunch (that suspiciously included Cyborg, a resurrected Raven, and a name-reversioned Changeling ) under a different writer still frustrates me extremely.
Welcome to my world. That's EXACTLY how I feel about the first CRISIS and everything after. And a few things before, too, like the frickin' no good rotten New Teen Titans.
>>There's no humor in it anymore, and the characters from YJ suddenly and completely changed life-long ways of seeing, reacting to, and dealing with the world.
Again, welcome to my world. You're too young to realize just how disgusted all us Silver Age fans were when Wolfman brought out the New Teen Titans and had completely and utterly changed, almost beyond recognition, the personalities of every Silver Age character involved. We hated it, just as much as you kids apparently hate what Geoff Johns has done to your favorite rotten little brats from Young Justice.
However, there is a difference: the changes made to Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, and later, Speedy, were reprehensible ones meant to take heroic, idealistic Silver Age sidekicks and make them grim n gritty, angst filled Modern Age teen/twentyish heroes in their own right, "with attitude". Frankly, that sucked. Worse than this, Marv Wolfman is a dreadful and appalling writer, while Geoff Johns is a good one. Finally, the New Teen Titans was a circulation stunt. New X-MEN was the top selling comic in the world, and Wolfman boiled their success down to a formula and ruthlessly applied it to a beloved Silver Age concept. It was dreadful... and honestly, that's what the Modern Age was all about.
In the Silver Age, writers and artists cared about the characters they handled, and generally, they treated them more or less like real people. The stories were character driven. The Silver Age died and the Modern Age began when both comics companies got bought out by major corporations which began treating the characters as marketable commodities and potential franchises instead of real people. Everything became about test markets and market segments and it stopped being about stories that made sense. How many reboots has DC had, as the pencilpushers in charge sought the perfect formula to create maximum marketability to the current target demographic most likely to buy comic books? Wave after wave of reboots, not because anyone loved the characters or had any desire to treat them and/or their world as 'real', but simply because someone somewhere decided Kyle Rayner would, for a while, sell more copies of comic books to people with shorter attention spans than Hal Jordan and his fans?\
Anyway, I understand how you feel, trust me, I do. But Geoff Johns is an excellent writer who clearly loves the characters, and believe me, that is a HUGE step up from how all us Silver Age fans were treated at the beginning of the Modern Age. If Geoff Johns had been available to write every rebooted comic after the first CRISIS, us fans would have screamed a great deal less.
>>Ok, you say you haven't read modern DC, until Johns, because it was terrible. Well, of course it was. DC has always been terrible. So has Marvel. And Image, and all other comic book companies. That is, if you go by the majority of the books they put out. I hate to break it to you, but the ratio of good products to bad is never favorable, in any entertainment industry--comics, books, movies, music, what have you. Early 90s through mid 90s was particularly bad for comic books... There were good books, but they were few and far between.
You haven't read much of the Silver Age. In the Silver Age, more comics were good than bad. Honestly, it's that simple. Apparently, you did not like the 2D approach to superheroes that DC exemplified back then, and many people didn't... they were very childish, for the excellent reason that they were aimed at children, generally around the age of 8. I liked them when I was that age, and I like them fine again now as an adult, but I admit, I got pretty tired of them when I was a teenager and a young adult and thought I was too grown up and mature for all that baby stuff.
Marvel's Silver Age had the BEST stuff ever written in the genre... Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, and later on, Steve Englehart and Steve Gerber. When Englehart went to DC in their late Silver Age, he created the best Batman stories EVER in his brief run on DETECTIVE. There has been good stuff since then, but the Silver Age really was a legendary time for quality superhero comics.
>>But surprisingly enough, the late 90s and early 2000s were practically a renaissance--great writers putting out books right and left, at both companies(but still not encompassing the majority of the books, of course).
Great writers? Feh. Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Peter David for a brief while when he started... maybe a couple more I can't think of write now... Kurt Busiek, when he was writing good stuff and not just jacking off into a word processor. Frank Miller, occasionally... well, maybe not by the 90s. No, sorry... the Modern Age has got nothing on the Silver Age. There's a REASON that DC's best current writer goes back and mines the Silver Age; that's where all the good ideas were.
>>Now, I've read some Silver Age stories here and there, but DC's stuff from then has always seemed... Hilariously bad. Plan 9 From Outer Space bad. Like watching a train wreck involving lots of clowns and mimes.
Again, that stuff is aimed at 9 year olds. Someday, if you live that long, you'll be old enough to regain a sense of whimsy and not take everything so seriously. Until then, you won't get it.
>>On the other hand, the Golden Age DC stuff I've read was pretty decent... I have a feeling there _must_ be some reason besides nostalgia for liking Silver Age DC... So, please, point me at the good stuff so I can reverse this opinion.
You won't get it. You have to appreciate the craft of creating a story, and how hard it is to draw really fantastic things clearly, to really grasp just how amazing a job the various Superman writers under Mort Weisinger were doing. One of the latter day Silver Age DC writers whose work I love the most is Cary Bates. He was a master of intricate plotting, and he had to be, since he was writing characters who could move faster than their opponents could think... and yet, month after month, he came up with original, engaging, entertaining, and well written stories for these guys. I'd point you to his work on Superman, Action, Flash, and Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes, but I'm sure you'd just regard it as Plan 9 From Outer Space bad, so there's no point to it.
>>But even if not, I still won't begrudge you getting some SA clix, as long as they don't flood the sets or whatever
Gee, that's sweet of you. Hear this now: if I win the lottery and buy WizKids, YOU will be lucky to get six Modern Age figs per expansion. That will be if I'm feeling generous. The Modern Age was built on the Silver Age, your lack of respect for the foundations of everything you love is, frankly, contemptible. When geezers like me say "I want an Earth 2 Superman" and you punk kids curl your lips at us, because God forbid you lose a spot that might be given to frickin' GNORT, you are betraying your vast immaturity. Earth 2 Superman is THE Superman, the guy who started it all, and without him, you'd have no frickin' Young Justice at all to whine about. It is a travesty to me that WizKids wastes plastic on dweeb clone manga Legionnaires I've never heard of, when they haven't given us an Ultra Boy or a Mon El yet. It is horribly disrespectful to the forebears of all the books you like.
>>The Superboy we got should've been in his jacket, or one of the variants thereof--SA Superboy ought to be his own sculpt.
SA Superboy SHOULD have his own sculpt, I grant you. And no idiotic Modern Age rip offs should be done until the classic Silver Age character who made YOUR retarded version possible has been done first. That would be fair.
>>Impulse should've gotten his Impulse costume...
No Impulse should have been done before we got an SA Kid Flash. Period.
>> And GL: Rebirth was because while I love Hal and have no problem with him coming back, the explanation was _terrible_. Professional writers should know better, let alone good ones.
Honestly, you make me laugh. You sit down, look at everything that's been inflicted on Hal Jordan over the past twenty years, and then come up with a story to bring him back. If it's even remotely as internally consistent, sensible, and dutiful to the Green Lantern legacy as what Johns came up with, your talents are being wasted. You need to apply for a job at DC.
However, your talents aren't being wasted. DC is now looking for someone who loves the Silver Age, because the people in charge have recently realized -- as most Modern Age fans have not, and don't want to -- that all their good ideas originated in the Silver Age, and they should be hiring people that care about the Silver Age and who can get their characters and their universe back to some semblance thereof. That may offend many Modern Age fans, but us geezers have been waiting 20 years for them to get a clue.
Now WizKids just needs to get one, too.
Now, I noticed how you left off some things I said that put them into better context. It _seems_ as if the reason you did that was to make me appear more unreasonable than I am. But I'm hoping you merely did it for brevity's sake.
First off, I'm aware you didn't read Young Justice so you don't know the irony, but the Teen Titans/New Teen Titans compared to Young Justice/Teen Titans dichtonomy isn't the reversal you suggest it is. It's actually quite a bit more of a repeat. The Teen Titans inexplicably turned "grim-n-gritty" when they became New, and the fun went out of the book? Coincidentally, Young Justice also became drastically less humor and "fun" based, and turned the "grim-n-gritty" up several notches when they became the Teen Titans. Johns loves some of the characters he writes, but he didn't like the YJers enough to even research them before taking over, apparently. He wanted to write what he wanted to write, and he railroaded the characters into it.
I do, in fact, enjoy things regardless of whether they're marketed to children. This is because _well-crafted_ children's entertainment, should naturally appeal to adults as well. It's not that I simply "don't get it"--but that what I've seen of Silver Age DC just wasn't well-crafted. You did, however, point me to some Silver Age things to try, and I probably will--regardless of the fact that I felt the _way_ in which you did so was quite disrespectful to me. I also wasn't trying to get into a Silver Age or Modern Age pissing contest over which was better--just saying that the late 90s to early 2000s has been _a_ highlight of the Modern Age, not even necessarily the best. The mid to late 80s were also a highlight, of course.
Nevertheless, your saying the SA was where _all_ the good ideas were strikes me as the standard "Things were so much better in my day, everything's terrible now, kids today, blah blah blah" that should be promptly ignored and forgotten by sane people. We have quotes like that on historical record going back thousands of years. So unless you think things have really been going straight downhill since the Ice Age, they should be dismissed as nothing but rose-colored glasses. You(meaning all people) just couldn't see the bad when you were younger, and as you got older you naturally don't want to objectively analyze that time period. I do it too, like everyone else--but I know I do it, so I actively try not to.
Furthermore, I explained why I would accept some explicitly SA clix per set, but not too many--because most of the important SAers continued into the MA, and are represented within the REV sets of the figure. In many cases the costumes didn't even change much, if at all. I also said that whichever the most recognizable/important look for a character is, that's the one which should be sculpted--as long as it's actually the same character. SA Superboy and MA Superboy are two different characters--but if they _were_ the same, I said yours is the sculpt we should have. I don't see how this is offensive to you, except in that it's a reasonable compromise rather than just a complete capitulation.
You also said that, re:Superboy, they should just make new characters rather than change the old ones. Well, were that the case, there would only be one Flash and one Green Lantern--and they wouldn't be your SA ones. Superman would also be merely leaping about as opposed to flying, and Batman would be gunning down crooks. You may want to think that through more carefully. The GAers came before you SA whippersnappers came on the scene, afterall.
On top of all that, I also am not disrespectful to the past--I merely see it objectively. I see the Silver Age the same way I see classic Star Trek--good ideas, usually bad execution. However, my opinion of classic Star Trek is considerably more grounded, because I've seen all the episodes. I've only read random issues here and there of the Silver Age, so I freely admit that those could possibly be not indicative of the SA as a whole--in fact, since as I said there's always more bad than good, I actually suspect that there's good hiding in there somewhere. Which is why I asked for recommendations.