Beware Paypal

[jdm61802]

Hi all,

I just found out some disturbing news about Paypal policy that I wanted to be sure to warn everyone about. It seems that Paypal can and will take funds out of your Paypal account if there is a dispute resolution; even if the original tranaction is nearly two months old. This, in its self, is not why I am writng, I am writing to inform you that if you have no tracking number, Paypal will award the claim to the buyer and doc your account. Now this makes some sense, except in a situation like this...

You sale to an international buyer.
You can't track because the U.S. Postal service can't track in that country.
There is a claim that you did not ship.
You send Paypal a copy of the customs form with a eye witness; the post office master whom remembers shipping the item and still has the original customs form.

Now what does Paypal do. Decides for the buyer because you can't give them a tracking number. Then, if your Paypal account is now negative due to their decision, Paypal will require you pay them the difference or else they will lock-up your account???

In a nut shell, no matter what proof you can offer, if a buyer makes a 'claim' that you did not ship, you better have a tracking number.

I know all of this because they just did it to me. Buyer offers no proof that I did not ship. I offer a customs form and eye witness; an eye witness whom they did not even take time to contact. Paypal awards the buyer the claim and closes my account because I will not pay for thier poor decision. Thus the reason for this messages title, if you use Paypal 'beware' of their policy.

[krusticlese]

Just don't ship overseas.

[CornsilkSW]

or across the border to canada either, i had a package take over 2 months to arrive in Nova Scotia once... good thing i was just sending the guy some free figs. We had both thought the package was lost in the mail never to be seen again.

[d_knight7]

Hi all,

I just found out some disturbing news about Paypal policy that I wanted to be sure to warn everyone about. It seems that Paypal can and will take funds out of your Paypal account if there is a dispute resolution; even if the original tranaction is nearly two months old. This, in its self, is not why I am writng, I am writing to inform you that if you have no tracking number, Paypal will award the claim to the buyer and doc your account. Now this makes some sense, except in a situation like this...

You sale to an international buyer.
You can't track because the U.S. Postal service can't track in that country.
There is a claim that you did not ship.
You send Paypal a copy of the customs form with a eye witness; the post office master whom remembers shipping the item and still has the original customs form.

Now what does Paypal do. Decides for the buyer because you can't give them a tracking number. Then, if your Paypal account is now negative due to their decision, Paypal will require you pay them the difference or else they will lock-up your account???

In a nut shell, no matter what proof you can offer, if a buyer makes a 'claim' that you did not ship, you better have a tracking number.

I know all of this because they just did it to me. Buyer offers no proof that I did not ship. I offer a customs form and eye witness; an eye witness whom they did not even take time to contact. Paypal awards the buyer the claim and closes my account because I will not pay for thier poor decision. Thus the reason for this messages title, if you use Paypal 'beware' of their policy.

Beware paypal for the completely seperate side of the fence too.

I got scammed recently for $155 and complained to paypal. They eventually found in my favor but the guy had emptied his paypal accound, so they said they could not recover my funds, end of story. :angry:

[themike]

Likewise! $175 out of the good ol' Mike's pocket!

[combatninja]

Lesson learned: don't send internationaly.

[torontcollectr]

Lesson learned: don't send internationaly.

Great attitude which does not address the issue. You can still get burned domestically (see the quote about emptied account)

Having dealt (and been burnt, and had to do my own work, etc) with paypal for a few years, there is always drawbacks.


Paypal policy requires confirmed addresses. Currently offered to USA citizens who confirm with credit card only. With over 400 separate paypal transactions we are still only confirmed as a seller, not as a buyer.

Furthermore Paypal requires tracking numbers on all items.

The practicality issue and cost is staggering especially on lesser value items.

Yes Paypal sides with the buyer (when it can) as most do not provide the tracking number. We have faced the same issue with stamped receipts from the post office as proof positive sent and been denied.

Other choices as money orders also can require holds on funds. Cash is always scary when dealing.

The bottom line is you have to know and trust the person you are buying from. (Even then it is no guarantee) .

As always" Let the buyer, Beware".

[combatninja]

For $150 dollars there isn't any place in the continental U.S. that I wouldn't be able to track somebody down to. Granted not everybody has the resources I do, but that emptied Paypal account can't just disapear without a trace, at the least they have an address.

[jdm61802]

I just found out that the buyer whom stung me has done this before, but I am sure everyone can guess Paypal's response ;)

Yep. I'm still out a Paypal account.

[d_knight7]

For $150 dollars there isn't any place in the continental U.S. that I wouldn't be able to track somebody down to. Granted not everybody has the resources I do, but that emptied Paypal account can't just disapear without a trace, at the least they have an address.

Yeah but what do you do? Sick your team of lawyers on them? Fly out to them and camp out on their lawn? I'm really angry about it but I'm also trying to be practical.

[slipkornotpsu]

Yeah I got burned by Paypal twice. The one I got my money back because I contacted the person, but the other one had fake account info. Paypal found in my favor, but the guy didn't have any money in his account so they say sorry no money for you. I think this is carp because paypal has the guys name and bank account so just take it from there. All paypal cares about is that they get their fee of the money. I hate paypal, but you have to use it to sell on ebay.

[jdm61802]

Yeah I got burned by Paypal twice. The one I got my money back because I contacted the person, but the other one had fake account info. Paypal found in my favor, but the guy didn't have any money in his account so they say sorry no money for you. I think this is carp because paypal has the guys name and bank account so just take it from there. All paypal cares about is that they get their fee of the money. I hate paypal, but you have to use it to sell on ebay.


Actually, by chance this is what happened to the guy who brought the complaint about me. Paypal attempted to take the money out of my account, but by chance I had already emptied my Paypal account. They attempted to take the funds out of my bank account and credit card, but the card was expired and I had closed the bank account about 1 year earlier. So, it is possible that Paypal could not get access to the funds that should have been returned to you.

In my case, both the buyer and I lose. He lost his money and I lost my account.

[Hyper_Flash]

[QUOTE=torontcollectr]Furthermore Paypal requires tracking numbers on all items.

The practicality issue and cost is staggering especially on lesser value items.

Yes Paypal sides with the buyer (when it can) as most do not provide the tracking number. We have faced the same issue with stamped receipts from the post office as proof positive sent and been denied.[QUOTE]


Everyone does know that if you purchase and print (just on ordinary paper) your postage from PayPal, that Delivery Confirmation is thrown in for free. Not that this solves all of the various problems mentioned earlier, but at the very least it protects sellers who ship strictly to the US.

[torontcollectr]

Everyone does know that if you purchase and print (just on ordinary paper) your postage from PayPal, that Delivery Confirmation is thrown in for free. Not that this solves all of the various problems mentioned earlier, but at the very least it protects sellers who ship strictly to the US.[/QUOTE]

This is not true when it comes to paypal. Especially shipping from a country outside USA.
We are a verified buyer but for some reason NOT as a seller. When dealing with conflict- the options paypal provides does not include sending a copy of the postal receipt. Delivery confirmation from Canada is available at higher end delivery ($expresspost) which is 2-3 times the cost of normal delivery. As a seller we have sent hundreds of parcels to the USA and 90%+ always opt for the cheapest (and least secure-uninsured, longest wait time). In order to compete with fellow ebayers in the USA our shipping costs are close to actual postage (unlike a lot of our competitors). We can raise prices, or force people to take higher end delivery but we would price ourselves outside the market. Therefore despite a verifiable receipt we can still get hosed by paypal.

[d_knight7]

Paypal are shifty shysters with the morals of alley cats. They act like a massive bank, but take 0 interest in how legit they act/look because they know they're the only hotel in town.

Multiple court actions have been brought against them due to their practises, which range from cavalier to downright fraudulent.

But at the end of the day they are the only hotel in town, and 99.99% of the time it's fine, more due to general inate human honesty more than anything they do. Hopefully one day a court will force them to tow the line, or a competitor will step up. Until then it's monetary Russian Roulette for us all. :disappoin

[BigBadGreenGuy]

Paypal are shifty shysters with the morals of alley cats. They act like a massive bank, but take 0 interest in how legit they act/look because they know they're the only hotel in town.

Multiple court actions have been brought against them due to their practises, which range from cavalier to downright fraudulent.

But at the end of the day they are the only hotel in town, and 99.99% of the time it's fine, more due to general inate human honesty more than anything they do. Hopefully one day a court will force them to tow the line, or a competitor will step up. Until then it's monetary Russian Roulette for us all. :disappoin

Not to mention that Pay Pal is owned by E-Bay. If you have a problem with Pay Pal, try Bid-Pay. I haven't used them myself, but they may be the solution to your Pay Pal woes.

I had the same thing happen to me, I sent a package to the UK. I sent proof of postage to the buyer, and refunded their shipping to them, but they filed a Pay Pal claim anyway. So I sent Pay Pal my proof of postage, but since I live in Canada, and I didn't sent it with a DC (cost prohibitive) they sided with the buyer. I didn't have any money in my account at the time, so they got nothing, but now I can't use my Pay Pal account :(

I tried contacting the buyer several times to ask them if they ever received the package, as Canada Post includes $100 insurance free of charge. I told them that if they didn't receive the package to let me know, and I would file a claim with Canada Post and try to get them their money back, they never respnded.

Strangely, they never left any feedback on E-Bay. I was expecting at least a neutral, and more likely a negative.

[Ro-gan]

Hi all,

I just found out some disturbing news about Paypal policy that I wanted to be sure to warn everyone about. It seems that Paypal can and will take funds out of your Paypal account if there is a dispute resolution; even if the original tranaction is nearly two months old. This, in its self, is not why I am writng, I am writing to inform you that if you have no tracking number, Paypal will award the claim to the buyer and doc your account. Now this makes some sense, except in a situation like this...

You sale to an international buyer.
You can't track because the U.S. Postal service can't track in that country.
There is a claim that you did not ship.
You send Paypal a copy of the customs form with a eye witness; the post office master whom remembers shipping the item and still has the original customs form.

Now what does Paypal do. Decides for the buyer because you can't give them a tracking number. Then, if your Paypal account is now negative due to their decision, Paypal will require you pay them the difference or else they will lock-up your account???

In a nut shell, no matter what proof you can offer, if a buyer makes a 'claim' that you did not ship, you better have a tracking number.

I know all of this because they just did it to me. Buyer offers no proof that I did not ship. I offer a customs form and eye witness; an eye witness whom they did not even take time to contact. Paypal awards the buyer the claim and closes my account because I will not pay for thier poor decision. Thus the reason for this messages title, if you use Paypal 'beware' of their policy.

This just happened to me. And, almost exactly like you described.

I keep my International Shipping paperwork and the Post Office receipt until I get Positive Feedback from the Buyer.

I not only sent pics of the paperwork to the Buyer, but also to PayPal. They still rewarded the Buyer because I couldn't provide a Tracking Number.

I went a step further and phoned PayPal and spoke to a representative. After seeing the receipt and the pics of the International Shipping paperwork she believed me, but said PayPal still rewards the Buyer.

The rep did tell me though, that if I can somehow prove he got the package then they will overturn their ruling. The time span won't matter.

I'm going to go to my Post Office tomorrow and try and figure out a way to track the package. If that doesn't work I'll probably create a fake email account and email him saying I saw he won the comics from me and would offer him triple the price for them. Then, when he says okay or admits to ahving them I send that email to PayPal.

It's a joke! I shipped out 3-4 International boxes all within 3 days of each other. EVERYONE got theirs. I seriously doubt this guy didn't get his.

Because of this arsehole, I am no longer going to ship Internationally. OR, if I do, I will be charging them for the Insurance, which costs a good bit.

[torontcollectr]

How about this....

We sold an item on ebay. Customer used paypal. Left positive feedback that it was received and was happy.

4 Months later!! We get zinged by paypal. It seems the customer used his sister's credit card. She denied the purchase. Paypal refunded the money AND penalized us an additional $10.00!!!

Luckily for us this customer was in the same city as us, we tracked him down, hounded him until he paid fully, including the penalty. Paypal twidled its thumbs in the meantime despite the evidence we sent (no tracking number). In the end we settled it ourselves, and told paypal to close the case.

This case was an exceptional one (out of the 1000s of transactions we have done), however we are certain there are more problems out there waiting to happen.