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View Full Version : The Trophy Room The Trophy Room: Kate Spencer and Basil Karlo!


ol_Dut
05/18/2006, 09:35
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/Manhunter4.jpg

Weíre continuing our magical mystery tour of Collateral Damage LEís today with none other than Kate Spencer (Manhunter) and Basil Karlo (Clayface)! Come on in as we try to find out if Kate is prettier than her REV and if Basil has any more luck a certain hotel owner and manager who happens to share that name! So get that extra cup of coffee and hurry on over here!

Please click ďRepliesĒ to continue.

ol_Dut
05/18/2006, 09:47
Turning our attention to Kate first, letís take a look at her vital statistics.

LE Kate Spencer #206 (Manhunter)
Points: 49
Type: E Different
Clicks: 5
Range: 6
Targets: 1

LE Kate Spencerís Gains v. E Manhunter
Kateís biggest improvements come in the form of adds to her attack and damage. She starts and ends with a click of three (3) damage, and receives one extra click of nine (9) attack as well. Sheís also up one click of Exploit Weakness with two (2) damage and closes with two clicks of Flurry. One would think there would be more, but I guess that is a fair amount to pack into a quick five clicks.

LE Kate Spencerís Losses v. E Manhunter
Most importantly, Kate loses one click of life. The E Manhunter for five points less has six clicks. Further, Kate is totally stripped of Super Strength, Psychic Blast and Close Combat Expert. Although technically a gain, I'm looking at an additional click of Battle Fury as an additional loss.

Neutral Dial Tinkering
Kate kicks off and closes with Incapacitate; one click to start and two more hits of it on the fourth and fifth click, whereas the E Manhunter has it all together on the second through fourth click. Defensively, Kate progresses from Toughness to Combat Reflexes to Willpower, while the Experienced version starts with CR, moves to Toughness, then back to CR and closes with WP.

Cards That Work
Given that starting click of Incap paired with that three (3) damage, Stunning Blow seems like an obvious choice, but be forewarned that she can only use it for that one click. When Incap reappears, it brings Battle Fury along as well. Looking at her dial and the other feat options available at present, very little else makes much sense. With her top-loaded Leap/Climb, one may be tempted to give her Passenger, but voluntarily taking clicks when she only has five (5) to begin with doesnít seem like an overly clever idea. And although she will have the propensity to be in close combat, her attack values make her a poor choice for Homing Device. In light of all this, it may be best to play her as is.

Since Kate doesnít have anything in the way of move-and-attack powers, Atlantis Rising could work well to slow the opposition while her L/C lets her move about unfettered. Darkness brings everyone on the map down her fairly average six (6) range, and should serve to help keep her on the map a little longer since it stops long distance shooters from taking pot-shots at her. With Darkness, if sheís in range, the bad guy(s) are in range, too.

If ol_Dut had to Choose
LE Kate Spencer v. E Manhunter? Considering the fact that Combat Reflexes is changing for the better in a few short weeks, and also that a click of life is a terrible thing to waste, E Manhunter will be my choice the majority of the time. Looking at the overall concept of this character in Clix, sheís pretty clearly meant to be a close-combat piece. The E Manhunter works to that end much more effectively. The E starts with Battle Fury, negating her range, but overall itís pretty irrelevant because since she also starts with Super Strength Iíll be getting her right up in my opponentís grill quickly. When she picks up Incap, the Battle Fury disappears leaving her with both close combat and ranged combat options depending on her circumstances. Even her last click, with an OK eight (8) attack, has options. Featuring both EW and PB, no matter who she is able to target, as long has she hits, two (2) clicks of damage are going to get through. Thatís pretty nifty.

Perhaps what concerns me the most about LE Kate are her last two clicks. As weíre all no doubt painfully aware by now, Flurry and Incap donít mix, and sadly thatís what weíve got down there on those last two clicks. Even if I felt like doing the Flurry beat-down with that two (2) or three (3) damage, Iím still stuck with a lousy seven (7) attack value. Add in the aforementioned Battle Fury and I just donít feel that Iím getting much bang for my buck out of those last two clicks at all. That leaves us with three decent clicks on a five-click, 49 point piece. Ouch. Thatís not going to make me reach for her very often when for a few points more or less I could play the V or the E Manhunter, both of which are superior.

Quick and Dirty Price Guide
Kate is sitting at about $8-$10 at present, which is more than fair considering her questionable play value in comparison to the E and V Manhunter.

http://www.hcrealms.com/images/collateraldamage/cd207.jpg

Another week, another Clayface Ė but is he even more ultimate than Ultimate Clayface?

LE Basil Karlo #207 (Clayface)
Points: 87
Type: V-/Different
Clicks: 8
Range: 2
Targets: 1

LE Basill Karloís Gains v. V Clayface
Most notably, Basil starts with a click of Invulnerability. He acquires two clicks of Incap in place of Super Strength on his fifth and sixth click, and he also gets one additional click of Charge on his third click.

LE Basil Karloís Losses v. V Clayface
Like the hotel proprietor, Basil takes a beating. The worst of it happens right away on the first click where Basil loses Charge, his intimidating 18 defense and Shape Change. The second click doesnít fare much better as here he loses his nine (9) attack, heís again down from that 18 to a 17 defense, and Exploit Weakness is missing. In fact, EW never appears on poor Basilís dial at all. Lastly, Basil drops one click of life, leaving him with eight (8).

Neutral Dial Tinkering
There isnít anything that happens to Basilís dial that isnít either good or bad. Heís pretty clear cut that way.

Cards That Work
The upcoming Camouflage feat would be a fine choice for Basil since he has seven clicks of Shape Change and lower overall defensive numbers than the V Clayface. A little extra protection via pseudo-Stealth will help him quite a bit. Rip it Up would help to make sure that Basil always has an object handy whenever heís on one of his five clicks with Super Strength. And since he spends the bulk of his dial with two (2) damage, Nanobots doesnít seem a bad choice either.

As far as Battlefield Conditions go, itís pretty much an all-skate. Nothing really provides him with an obvious advantage, nothing levels the playing field for him, and some that may help him (like Power Dampening Field and Armor Wars) will likely end up doing more harm than good when taking the rest of his team into consideration. Best to base the decisions here on what suits the overall team or strategy.

If ol_Dut had to Choose
LE Basil Karlo v. V Clayface? Thanks to an opening click with Charge, nine (9) attack with Super Strength, 18 defense and a natural four (4) damage, the choice is clear; V Clayface every single time. Heís only two points more, but heís considerably better. If I had to pick between Basil and Ultimate Clayface? Ultimate Clayface wins every time Ė not only because heís Ultimate, but also because heís got a little something extra goiní on with all of that Poison. In fact, I would only play Basil in three circumstances: 1.) I really, REALLY want to play Clayface but I donít have the R, the E, the V or Ultimate Clayface from Collateral Damage, 2.) my only other Clayface option is the Hypertime Clayface REV, or 3.)my team is so silly with TK that mobility doesnít matter. On a Batman Enemies Team? Not bloody likely. Hit him with the mooseís head, set the joint on fire, and roll the credits because Basilís all done.

Quick and Dirty Price Guide
Basil will set you back about $10 right now, which isnít a bad price, per say. But as he is so blatantly upstaged by the V and Ultimate Clayface, Basil really is best left for the completionists and the hardcore Clayface fans.

Thatís all for this week. Join us again right here next week for another exciting adventure through the wonderful world of Collateral Damage LEís!

Thanks for reading!

tidge
05/18/2006, 10:48
Agree and agree. I'm not that excited by either of those pieces. Caveat: I cannot remember their dials, or to put another way...I'm so not excited by them I haven't looked at their dials.

Manhunter/Kate Spencer: Okay, I skipped the Grant Morrison "Seven Soldiers", but in Clix terms she hits all the wong buttons...the biggest mistakes? An REV/U with no team ability, and no real history to boot. I doubt I'd even build an "all-Manhunter" team (Martian Manhunter, Manhunter, and Manhunter Robot) if I had the chance.

Clayface: I guess I should be happy to get more Mud for the Mudpack...but just like Mr. Freeze and Catwoman before him, the 5th figure just isn't adding that much more to my Bat-Villains tackle box....his point value might turn out to be useful for certain builds...but he's already pushing the envelope on point costs (given his mobility problems) as is.

necrodog
05/18/2006, 11:54
Curious as to why you say Kate can't use Stunning Blow when Incap reappears: it's not optimal in combination with Battle Fury since she loses the
RCA option, but it still works in Close Combat.

Cole Burns
05/18/2006, 12:24
Manhunter/Kate Spencer: Okay, I skipped the Grant Morrison "Seven Soldiers", but in Clix terms she hits all the wong buttons...the biggest mistakes? An REV/U with no team ability, and no real history to boot. I doubt I'd even build an "all-Manhunter" team (Martian Manhunter, Manhunter, and Manhunter Robot) if I had the chance.


You aren't missing anything skipping seven soldiers. It's been the biggest let down of the year IMO. That said, Manhunter is not one of the seven solders. She has her own comic series that is not done by Morrison.

lchestnut81
05/18/2006, 12:39
I have to agree with taking the REV versions of both these LE's.

I used Exp. Manhunter as a pouncer last Saturday, and for 64 points (I like all my pouncers to have unstoppable), she did 11 clicks of Damage total before she bought it. Some might not think of her being cost effective click for click set up like that, but it worked pretty good.

I have really been looking forward to playing my vet Clayface, but just haven't had a build I liked him in yet.

Great review as always! :)

darklogos
05/18/2006, 13:01
I don't think either of the LE's stand out at this point in the game. In the future when Icons is faded out into retirment then they may be more useful. Clayface Le has potential but not over the Vet.

tidge
05/18/2006, 13:09
You aren't missing anything skipping seven soldiers. It's been the biggest let down of the year IMO. That said, Manhunter is not one of the seven solders. She has her own comic series that is not done by Morrison.

Thanks for the update...my DC reads have been JSA and the "Ultimate Superman"...I used to be a huge DC fan, but something lost me...Somehow in my mind I lumped the Seven Soldiers together with the new Manhunter...I must have subconciuosly tied everything together as yet more "Crisis" tie-ins.

ol_Dut
05/18/2006, 14:48
Curious as to why you say Kate can't use Stunning Blow when Incap reappears: it's not optimal in combination with Battle Fury since she loses the
RCA option, but it still works in Close Combat.

A poor choice of words on my part perhaps. I don't really see the point to putting Stunning blow on her since the loss of range at the bottom of her dial for her equates to a lack of options. At that point in her dial, Flurry may be a better option and it's already been paid for in the figures base point cost.

No range due to Battle Fury, and you can't do a Flurry/Incap/Stunning Blow, so for me it feels like your paying for a feat that works best on one single click. Id' rather save the points and put feats on somebody else. That's the frustrating bit about those last two clicks - they look like they ought to do something pretty terrific, but they end up going off in all different directions instead of working in concert. Even with the present choice of feats, and there are alot of them, nothing solves for this disharmonious convergence of colors and numbers.

That said, I still have to get her and will still play her to see if I can make her work.

Wolverine_Hulk
05/18/2006, 15:52
Another good BFC for Kate is Internal(sp?) Dapening Field

SomaCruz42
05/18/2006, 16:25
I agree on both counts. The big winner for me in the Manhunter debate, though, is that E Manhunter, as opposed to Kate, can Pounce.

And even though the V Clayface is better, I love that sculpt so much I'd play a 5 Clayface team, REV LE and Ultimate. I do it because it makes me smile.

GreenLantrn128
05/18/2006, 18:06
Another good BFC for Kate is Internal(sp?) Dapening Field

Are you thinking Power Dampening Field or Inerital Interference Field?

Wolverine_Hulk
05/18/2006, 18:13
Both :)

Cole Burns
05/18/2006, 18:26
Thanks for the update...my DC reads have been JSA and the "Ultimate Superman"...I used to be a huge DC fan, but something lost me...Somehow in my mind I lumped the Seven Soldiers together with the new Manhunter...I must have subconciuosly tied everything together as yet more "Crisis" tie-ins.

heh, that's funny. The two DC books you read are about the only two I'm not picking up. All star supes I'm waiting for the trade and JSA I've been meaning to get to but I missed it when it started and want to read it from the beggining when I do. Are they both worth checking out?

MadCap#1
05/18/2006, 19:36
To my understanding JSA is ending soon. I am not sure why, but it is on the chop block.
I would say JSA is very good, though this current story arc I am luke warm to.

Thanks for the great reviews!
I picked up Basil for pretty cheap, but was disappointed as well when compared to the V.

tidge
05/18/2006, 22:36
What he said :)

JSA is getting a hiatus/reboot(?)...now is not the time to start. For a long time, I think JSA was the best 'team' book available, and it really showcased Geoff Johns strengths as a continuity maven. We ended up with some pretty tightly-wrapped reasons for the Golden Age characters to remain as active participants.

While very good stories, he does work from a very 'canonical' point-of-view, and many of the JSA arcs are part of company cross-overs that I skipped...which made those parts very weak IMO.

I'd recommend borrowing copies, but it would be pretty hard justifying a full purchase..unless there turned out to be a particular character you liked.