View Full Version : Clix vs. Comix TOC! 86-95pts. Round 3 Match 3: PHOENIX VS. WILDFIRE
Last match was slightly closer then the first, but Big Barda took a strong lead.
I was playing Heroclix one day. While building my team, I looked at my selection for 103pts characters and realized that U HT Batman and R IC Hulk both cost the same. This got me thinking. Just because they are Heroclix equals doesn’t translate back to comics. I think most of us would agree that Hulk could beat Batman in a fight.
That is the idea for this tournament. Every entry will be close to the same amount of points Heroclix wise, but this will be their comic forms fighting!
Rules:
This will be a standard single elimination tournament with 32 combatants. There will be 2 to a fight. They get no knowledge of each other (unless they have fought in the past). The only thing they get is the Heroclix figure of there enemies, and a PAC so they know what the opponent looks like and a bit about what they can do (this can be misleading however, like if they face Electro and think he will try to poison them). They will have 5 minutes to prepare. This is a fight to the death or KO or a 1 minute complete incapacitate, whichever happens first, and they must fight (no waiting for the opponent to die of starvation or for the terrain to dispose of them). They have with them what they normally carry and what there fig has if it is different. (Like how Bullseye doesn’t carry a gun, but he has one on the fig). If the fig that is being used is the rookie, you do NOT have to treat the fighter like that. (unless the characters powers change dramatically ie: Rouge)
When you vote, please try to justify your answer. You don’t have to write an essay, just a short explanation will do.
I would like to thank Whoclix for the bios, ‘cause I could never write ones like that myself.
Terrain
There are 10 terrains that are all 5 miles in diameter. They will be chosen randomly.
With out further delay…
Phoenix (Rachel)
UL, 86
vs.
Wildfire
LG, 89
Terrain:
The Four Seasons by Magnito
A mixed terrain including a wide open field, a little river, some rocks and some tall trees. Time in this place has been altered though, so that every season last for only about an hour. The contestants start in a boiling hot Summer, one hour later, they are in a crisp, windy Autumn, then a freezing Winter, and last but not least a very wet Spring before returning to the summer heat.
21-25pts: Live Wire...........26-30pts: Zatanna
31-35pts: Killer Frost.........36-40pts: Brainiac 5
41-45pts: Cosmic Boy........46-50pts: Shade
51-55pts: Umar.................56-60pts: Firestorm
61-65pts: Dr. Strange.......66-70pts: Flash (Wally)
71-75pts: Swamp Thing…..76-80pts: Magneto
81-85pts: Phoenix (Jean)
Round 1
The Key vs. Green Lantern (Hal): Green Lantern (Hal)
Klaw vs. Black Lightning: Klaw
Big Barda vs. Sasquatch (Heather): Big Barda
White Queen vs. Hellboy: Hellboy
Gorilla Grodd vs. Phoenix (Rachel): Phoenix (Rachel)
Wildfire vs. Hulk: Wildfire
Spider-man 2099 vs. Emerald Empress: Emerald Empress
Carnage vs. Adam Strange: Adam Strange
Red Robin (KC) vs. Mimic: Red Robin (KC)
Xorn vs. War Machine: War Machine
Owlman vs. Baron Zemo: Owlman
Major Force vs. Baron Blood: Major Force
Clayface vs. Enchantress: Enchantress
Rogue vs. Angelus: Rogue
Goliath vs. Superwoman: Superwoman
Crimson Dynamo vs. Iron Man: Iron Man
Round 2
Red Robin (KC) vs. Enchantress: Enchantress
Superwoman vs. Rogue: Rogue
Klaw vs. Phoenix (Rachel): Phoenix (Rachel)
Wildfire vs. Iron Man: Wildfire
Owlman vs. Big Barda: Big Barda
Adam Strange vs. Green Lantern (Hal): Green Lantern (Hal)
War Machine vs. Major Force: Major Force
Hellboy vs. Emerald Empress: Emerald Empress
Round 3
Major Force vs. Green Lantern (Hal): Green Lantern (Hal)
Enchantress vs. Big Barda: Big Barda
Phoenix (Rachel) vs. Wildfire:
PHOENIX (III)
The daughter of Scott Summers and Jean Grey from an alternate reality, Rachel Summers was captured and branded by anti-mutant government forces; using her psionic powers as a mutant "hound" to aid Sentinels in hunting and killing mutants. Breaking her master's control, she exchanged the spirit of Kitty Pryde in the past to prevent the chain of events that led to the Sentinels' rule and then used the Phoenix Force to send herself back in time. After being rescued from the psychic vampire Selene by the X-Men, she joined the team, calling herself Phoenix to atone for what she had done in the alternate future. Later, after joining the British X-team Excalibur, she battled the anti-phoenix who caused her massive injuries. As the Phoenix Force took Rachel into space to heal her, she encountered Galactus where the Phoenix Force's bond was broken. Returning to Earth, she traded places with Captain Britain in the time stream, only to be imprisoned by the evil Gaunt and rescued by her brother Cable. Returning to the current time, her powers began to develop new aspects, including the Shadow Astral Form that had belonged to Psylocke. After the X-Men rescued her from the evil Bogan, she rejoined the team and now calls herself Marvel Girl.
WILDFIRE
After Mordru destroyed the heroes Atom'x and Blast-Off, their souls were collected and contained in a special suit. Dubbed "Drake Burroughs" the combined hero joined the Legion of Superheroes as ERG-1. When his suit was destroyed, the disembodied energy reformed into the being known as Wildfire. Wildfire can absorb and fire blasts of energy and flight at lightspeeds through space.
Phoenix has a few options here. The first is the obvious mental assualt, which without Saturn Girl's enhanced defense, Drake is going to have trouble resisting. The second would be an all-out assault with her telekinesis. Rachel would be able to smack Drake around with ease. The third option is to disassemble his armor, which she could also do with ease. Drake would have to get a hit in on Rachel fast if he hopes to come out on top. This is a feat I don't see him pulling off too many times.
My Vote: Phoenix.
I vote for Wildfire.
Rachel just doesn't have it in her to take an opponent like this a majority of the time, she has too many flubs in her career for that. As far as I can tell all you have to do to resist Rachels' mental assaults is to be alive I can only think of one person that she has ever mentaly taken out, and that's the Juggernat, heck she rarely even tries for a mental attack. I doubt that she could dissasemble Wildfire's armor, she isn't mechanicaly inclined, and it's not like there are a bunch of screws, apart from that I don't see how telekineticaly trying to pull it apart is any different than just blasting it as usual. Rachel has been portrayed to be more powerful than Wildfire almost never he will win this most of the time.
The bio says that when the suit is destroyed, he is basically out of this, and if your fighting a guy in a suit, it doesn't take a genious to realize that the best cource of action would be to destroy the suit. And pulling it apart with TK is a very plausible way to do it. I'm not voting yet, but it does seem to me that Rachel has the trump card here.
Taking apart a suit that can withstand Kryptonian blows? Not very likely.
SumYungGai
05/26/2006, 13:55
Wildfire is living anti-energy, so he doesn't have an organic brain for Rachel to mentally assault. He has blasts that can incinerate small starships and can hurt beings with kryptonian power levels. He is contained in a suit that can withstand kryptonian level attacks (both energy as well as physical).
Rachel might have the raw power to hang on in a battle of this level, but doesn't have the experience to really carry this fight.
Vote: Wildfire
SumYungGai
05/26/2006, 13:58
she isn't mechanicaly inclined, and it's not like there are a bunch of screws, apart from that I don't see how telekineticaly trying to pull it apart is any different than just blasting it as usual.
I have to come to Rachel's defense on this point. Claremont has hammered us with the fact that Psylocke is better at big blasts and attacks, while Rachel's control is much more fine.
That said, I still don't see her dissassembling future tech without a blueprint and assistance from Reed Richards.
Cant even this Phoenix manipulate materials on a molcular level? I seem to remember, just like the Jean Grey version, her using her powers to change her clothes into her uniform and what not. This being the case why would Rachel need to hammer thru his outfit, why couldnt she simply transform it into cloth, or paper, or feathers? If hes dead without the suit, theres other ways to to use that vulnerability without simply pounding thru it. Control of molecules would enable her to turn the suit into anything she wished, and I dont believe she needs to know that exact chemical make up of such things before hand. Still not voting as yet, but Im leaning towards The Phoenix due to her ability to manipulate molecules and Wildfires NEED for his containment suit.
Cant even this Phoenix manipulate materials on a molcular level? I seem to remember, just like the Jean Grey version, her using her powers to change her clothes into her uniform and what not. This being the case why would Rachel need to hammer thru his outfit, why couldnt she simply transform it into cloth, or paper, or feathers? If hes dead without the suit, theres other ways to to use that vulnerability without simply pounding thru it. Control of molecules would enable her to turn the suit into anything she wished, and I dont believe she needs to know that exact chemical make up of such things before hand. Still not voting as yet, but Im leaning towards The Phoenix due to her ability to manipulate molecules and Wildfires NEED for his containment suit.
It would and that would be a nifty attack not only against this guy but dozens of other guys that she could have used it against, but just like her mom Rachel's "fine molecular manipulation powers" consist of allowing her to change her clothes and that's about it. The reason it's questionable as to whether or not she needs to know somethings chemical breakdown is that she never uses that ability for anything so we don't know it's scope or specifics, when she fights people she hammers on them.
SumYungGai
05/26/2006, 16:31
Cant even this Phoenix manipulate materials on a molcular level?
The last time I remember her doing something like this, she needed to be linked to Reed Richards. She has the power, but not the knowledge to fully utilize this power.
True, though my point was mostly that if she realized that WF NEEDS the suit hes in, that she has the power to transmute it to something else (as she does with her clothes), and that would KO him. Not really saying its something she would routinely think to do or find out, but I do believe it is in her power to do so.
Maniac_nmt
05/26/2006, 16:36
Taking apart a suit that can withstand Kryptonian blows? Not very likely.
Sure it is, when you can telekinetically shift moons and planets, which Rachel could do as of Excalibur 50
The last time I remember her doing something like this, she needed to be linked to Reed Richards. She has the power, but not the knowledge to fully utilize this power.
I dont think so, as I remember her transmute her clothing all of the time. Not saying WFs containment suit is Exactly like clothing, but it is inorganic matter, something she has proven on more than one occassion that she can transmute.
Also, I think her power level and fighting ability are being a bit undervalued. I remember a storyline where Galactus and Nova came to dispose of Phoenix, too big a threat to the universe and his meals and all, and Nova fought Phoenix and I believe Rachel won. It was only with the stepping in of Galactus himself did she get strapped to his machine for termination (though in the end the Watcher convinced him not to kill her)
Her ability to transmute inorganic matter and her won over a Herald of Galactus have given me a slight tip off the fence, and Ill officially vote for Phoenix (not throwing moons and planets around, as thats obviously not her normal power levels), for the win over Wildfire here.
I vote wildfire
Rachel would be able to smack Drake around with ease. The third option is to disassemble his armor, which she could also do with ease. What part of takes hits from daxamites and kryptonians is everyone missing here? He'll be absorbing any pyrokinesis she wants to throw his way and blasting her with mega blasts
Maniac_nmt
05/26/2006, 23:31
I'll vote for Phoenix.
Post Excalibur 50 her tk was a lot more powerful then Kryptonian or Daxamite punches. Pre Excalibur 50 she'd put up a good fight but loose, post 50 she'll clobber the hell out of him.
St-Dumas
05/27/2006, 00:11
How resistant is Wildfire to telepathy? If it's none, I vote Phoenix. If it's more then that, then i'll probably give it to him.
deadshot042
05/27/2006, 00:22
Rachel has always been a screw up, just to make sure that I wanted to make this vote, I re-read a great of her material in the Essentials. She never uses her telekinesis or her telepathy. She just blasts things, and usually makes a mess out of it. She has a great deal of power, but has never used it effectively so what makes you guys think that she'll suddenly inherit her mothers wits.
Wildfire may be a guy in a suit, but she doesn't realize anything about his bio. More than likely she will attempt to fight fire with fire, and Rachel has NEVER shown anything on the level of Wildfire. She will attempt to blast him and his suit will easily deal with the punishment. It handles kryptonians and Daxamites with ease, a punch from Supes at best places a dent. Wildfire will use anti-energy, something that does NOT exist in the marvel universe and it will take Rachel by suprise. His blasts are a helluva lot more powerful than hers and he will get the KO a great majority of the time.
My Vote- Wildfire
Rachel may be a screw up, but Wildfire is a hothead. As said last round, when he gets frustrated, he gets sloppy. Also, a punch from a kryptonian is completlt differant then TK. If her TK is powerfull enough to move the planets and moons, I see her being able to do something to the suit. I feel as if Rachel is being underestimated, while Wildfire is being overestimated here. Plus, I haven't heard any real proof that he is immune to telepathy yet. My vote...
PHOENIX
Phoenix-4
Wildfire-4
We are tied!
St-Dumas
05/27/2006, 02:40
If someone answers the telepathy question, I could break the tie.
Im going to vote for Phoenix. She has a better temperment, a strong variety of powers, and I'd say if she could take Nova, she probably has a good chance vs Wildfire. If she can go toe to toe in power with Nova, it means she certainly isn't outclassed by Wildfire in power, so shes not getting wiped out, and she has the better temper and HAS the answers to beat him, and when you have answers, and enough power to stay in a fight long enough to use them against a fairly hotheaded opponent, you get my vote. This is with or without his weakness to Telepathy.
Phoenix for the win.
Wildfire isn't *that* much of a hothead, he's shown leadership capability before. He also has high flight-speed to bring the fight to her fast. Since she's likely going to try and take him out with TK first, I see him winning this.
My vote: Wildfire.
She has a better temperment, Wildefire is cool and calm under pressure. The main complaints leveled at him when he was leading the legion was that he was too dispassionate.
a strong variety of powersWildfire has kryptonian level strength and durability,enough energy output to power a planet, intergalactic flight speeds,energy absorption (with the ability to channel that energy into his blasts etc) and even the ability to make basic force constructs.
and I'd say if she could take Nova, she probably has a good chance vs Wildfire and i'd say if wildfire could solo 30th century mordru and kryptonians and strip a daxamite to the bones with one of his blasts he has more than a good chance vs wildfire
and i'd say if wildfire could solo 30th century mordru
And what were the circumstances behind that one. because mordru was always a LEGION level threat. not just one member.
Also, wildfire communicated with saturn girl just fine through telepathy. he's not immune to that in the slightest.
vote - phoenix
Yeah, I don't buy the whole thing about Drake being immune to telepathy, too. After all, Saturn Girl can ONLY speak through telepathy.
St-Dumas
05/27/2006, 14:42
Okay then. I guess another Phoenix will move to the semi-finals.
My vote: Phoenix
Okay then. I guess another Phoenix will move to the semi-finals.
My vote: PhoenixIt's okay, though. She won't win this tournament. I think we all know who will, however. ;)
Phoenix now leads by 2, but this is still a close one.
Yeah, I don't buy the whole thing about Drake being immune to telepathy, too. After all, Saturn Girl can ONLY speak through telepathy.
That's false, Saturn Girl is only mute in the current run of Legion (which doesn't have Wildfire in it). She can talk just fine in the others.
Gargantua
05/27/2006, 18:47
I'll widen Phoenix's lead a bit more. I've been hanging back and reading the posts, and I think Phoenix should be able to withstand Wildfire and give as good as she gets. And if he's not immune to telepathy, that gives Rachel a big advantage in this.
That's false, Saturn Girl is only mute in the current run of Legion (which doesn't have Wildfire in it). She can talk just fine in the others.Wow. DC's continuity really doesn't make any sense. Irregardless, my comment is not false. It just doesn't apply to the situation at hand.
Wow. DC's continuity really doesn't make any sense. Irregardless, my comment is not false. It just doesn't apply to the situation at hand.
Really it's just Legion continuity that doesn't make any sense. It has never been that popular a book so it gets canceled a lot, then it will get restarted sometime later with a the characters that are themeatically similar and have the same name, but are also not exactly the same character, with the universe set up a little differently (occasionaly with no explanation). That's one of the reason's characters from that book are annoying to have in these as techinicaly the Cosmic Boy from one run of Legion is a different from the Cosmic Boy from another, but they tend to all get meshed together. I tend to take any information about characters from that book with a grain of salt unless I can confirm it firsthand.
Really it's just Legion continuity that doesn't make any sense. It has never been that popular a book so it gets canceled a lot, then it will get restarted sometime later with a the characters that are themeatically similar and have the same name, but are also not exactly the same character, with the universe set up a little differently (occasionaly with no explanation). That's one of the reason's characters from that book are annoying to have in these as techinicaly the Cosmic Boy from one run of Legion is a different from the Cosmic Boy from another, but they tend to all get meshed together. I tend to take any information about characters from that book with a grain of salt unless I can confirm it firsthand.Now that makes sense. It's weird about Legion getting canceled all the time (at least considering the current book). It's not a bad read at all, though I haven't read anything since one year later, and that sales device has pretty much ruined Outsiders and Teen Titans for me.
Im not sure why people seem to be voting based on the assumption that the first thing Rachel does when facing a new opponent is rip their clothes off? Does she have any sort of clue that there are special rules that if she can take his suit off she wins? Also, with regards to her clothes changing abilities to begin with, I thought she had one of Reeds unstable molecule outfits to make it easy for her to change her own clothes...
I hate always asking for more specific info, but werent there some psi interferenece tricks with the flight rings? I know the telepathic earplugs could be configured that way, but dont know if Drake uses those...
Im not sure why people seem to be voting based on the assumption that the first thing Rachel does when facing a new opponent is rip their clothes off?
If she were fighting someone elce, she wouldn't, but when fighting someone in a big robotic-like suit, wouldn't that just be common sence? I mean, if you look at Wildfire, he sure looks like a guy who's powers might come from his costume.
Its not really a big robotic like suit...it looks sort of like a spacesuit...the most recent one is armored up a lot more than the old one (Pictured on the wikipedia entry,) I assume that is the one he would be in here...the older one is even less power suit looking http://www.dragonhero.com/graphics/lsh/wildfire.png
Im not sure why people seem to be voting based on the assumption that the first thing Rachel does when facing a new opponent is rip their clothes off? Does she have any sort of clue that there are special rules that if she can take his suit off she wins? Also, with regards to her clothes changing abilities to begin with, I thought she had one of Reeds unstable molecule outfits to make it easy for her to change her own clothes...
I hate always asking for more specific info, but werent there some psi interferenece tricks with the flight rings? I know the telepathic earplugs could be configured that way, but dont know if Drake uses those...Rachel would see the armor on the figure and assume that without it, he's pretty much powerless. In addition, Rachel has often altered clothes that weren't unstable molecules (like Kitty's favorite outfit).
Asking for more specific information is never a bad thing. In the Wildfire regard, all I can reference is that Saturn Girl is able to protect the teammates from mental assaults.
If she were fighting someone elce, she wouldn't, but when fighting someone in a big robotic-like suit, wouldn't that just be common sence?
Dear Lord, if we're going to base Rachel's ability to win on her ability to use common sense, then anyone voting for her must immediately change their vote to Wildfire!!!
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