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AZS
06/16/2006, 10:41
Welcome to the Sinister Marquee/Prerelease Primer Review!!

Part 5: Cards

http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/statue.jpg
Tonight, ABC Family Channel Presents:
A very Special Object lesson.
The Statue got me high.

Even though the ‘street date’ of this set isn’t for a few more weeks, the Pre-Release is coming up this weekend! With an expanded number of locations getting to run prerelease tournaments, many more of us will get a chance to play with this set before the official release!

Here’s the review schedule:

Part 1 - Commons (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167742)
Part 2 – Uncommons (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167816)
Part 3 – Rares (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167884)
Part 4 – Uniques (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=167953)
Part 5 – Cards & Special Objects

These reviews are intended for sealed, 300 point games with only this set.
Also, even though some may believe that Sinister is a somewhat ‘weaker’ set in the grand scheme, this review series is written with the intent and mindset of this being a Sinister-only tournament. So figures may be stronger or weaker in this circumstance.

Click on ‘Replies’ below to read the review.

.

AZS
06/16/2006, 10:42
Welcome to yet another Primer Review!

The cards here aren’t rated with Smileys since they’ll depend almost entirely on if you have figs to play them on (Feat cards), if they’ll help your team (BFC’s), or if you have 5 points to waste (Pogs.)
So, without further ado….

Part 5 – Cards

Battlefield Conditions, Feat Cards, & Bystander Tokens


Battlefield Condition Cards

Ground Zero
Whenever a character makes a successful close combat attack, roll a six-sided die before damage is dealt. On a result of 5 or 6, the attack deals 1 additional damage. On a result of 1 or 2, after the attack resolves the attacking character is dealt 1 unavoidable damage.

Well, this affects both teams equally. There’s not really any way to build a team to take advantage of this.
If you go into the game with a team you don’t think is competitive and want to play something fun, go for it.
On the other hand, there will already be so much rolling (and missing) in this set that adding yet another roll to every action could cause dice burn-out.


Back-Alley Brawl
Characters who make close combat attacks using no powers, feats, or team abilities and who are not affected by the powers, feats, or team abilities of any friendly character get +2 to their attack values.

Well, most figures could really use the bonus to AV, so it might be helpful. But this is another one that benefits both sides equally. Play at your own risk.


Telekinetic Strain

When Telekinesis is used to move a character or object 6 or more squares, the character with Telekinesis is dealt 1 unavoidable damage.

There’s only a few figs with TK, and if you don’t pull one, it couldn’t hurt you to play this card. If you do pull a fig with TK, do not play this card! (On the mistaken premise that your opponent might have TK too.)


Rushed Assault

The first character to make an attack targeting an opposing figure during a game gets –2 to its attack value until the attack resolves.

Eh, you’re going to miss your first attack anyway. ;)
If you don’t have much mobility on your team (no TK, limited Charge or Running Shot) this could help protect you from a big alpha-strike.
Or, it’ll just cause both players to dance around the board even longer, trying to get off one attack to fulfill the BFC before dedicating themselves to their real attack.
I’d leave this one on the side just for the sake of keeping the game moving. It might be good in hard-core tournaments, but in this case it’ll probably be more of a burden than a benefit.


Feat Cards

Pummel
Cost: 10
Prereq – Combat Reflexes or Close Combat Expert
Once per turn, when the character has zero action tokens and is given a close combat action, you can ignore the result of one attack roll made for the character and reroll the dice to obtain a new result.

This is a perfect card for this set, it gives you the opportunity to re-roll a missed close combat attack (how likely is that?!).
The catch however is that you can only re-roll a close combat attack, even though one of the prerequisites is CCE, which is a close combat action. :ermm:
So, if you think there’s a chance you’ll miss and want to use this card, you’ll have to choose not to use CCE during the attack.
Even so, the opportunity to re-roll a miss is a great thing, so if you have 10 points to spare and a fig that meets the prereq, you’ll probably want to try and play this card.


Knockdown
Cost: 5
Prereq – Incapacitate

Choose a Character.
Once per turn, after the character resolves a successful close combat action using Incapacitate, if the target has only one action token, as a free action the character can immediately make a second close combat attack against the target, which gets +2 to its defense value for the second attack. If the attack succeeds, deal no damage; instead, give the target a second action token. If the character loses Incapacitate before making the second attack, it may not make the second attack.

Wow, that’s a lot of ‘ifs’ for one card. Then again, its only 5 points. So if you have a fig that can play this, and 5 points to burn, it couldn’t hurt. Maybe you’ll get to pull it off once out of 3 games.


Entangle
Cost: 8
Prereq – Plasticity

Choose a character.
Opposing characters attempting to target the character with a close combat attack must roll one six-sided die before making the attack. On a result of 1 or 2, the opposing character may not attack the character. It is not given an action token, but it cannot be given another action or make another attack that turn.

Coolio, extra protection! That’s never a bad thing. There’s a handful of figs with Plasticity that could make good use of this. The real devil of the card though is that when you’re tying someone up with Plasticity they’ll have a hard time breaking away and trying to hit. A real killer combo.
On Scarlet Spider there’s even 2 clicks where Plasticity overlaps with Super Senses, giving you 2 chances to avoid an attack!

(Then again, after flipping through the figure list, only a handful of figs even have Plasticity; Hydroman, Paste-pot-pete, and Whizzer being the others.)


Heightened Reflexes
Cost: 10
Prereq – Energy Shield/Deflection or Combat Reflexes

Choose a character.
When the character is hit by an attack using Charge, Hypersonic Speed, Running Shot, or the transporter move and attack ability, roll one six-sided die before damage is dealt. On a result of 5 or 6, the character evades the attack.

Yet more opportunities to avoid attacks. This set is heavy on the defense! This is a great card though, and really bolsters ES/D and Combat Reflexes. Ka-Zar in particular would be a great candidate for this card.


Vault
Cost: 3
Prereq – Leap/Climb or Combat Reflexes

After the character resolves a close combat action, it may be placed in any square in which it may legally be placed adjacent to a target of the action at the same elevation as the target.

This is a flat out awesome card. And for only 3 points, you should play it if you pull it. (You’re sure to have 3 points to fill anyway.)
Positioning is hugely important in this game, and if you can make an attack (you don’t even need to successfully hit) and then reposition, that’s huge.


Vendetta
Cost: 6
Prereq – Arch Enemy Base

Choose a character.
Before the beginning of the first turn, if the character’s archenemy is not an opposing figure, choose a target opposing figure with point value greater than the character’s point value. The target is the character’s archenemy and the character is the target’s archenemy. The character gets +1 to its attack value when making a close or ranged combat attack against the target.

On the one hand, you’re giving your opponent an opportunity to get double points off your figure. On the other hand, most figures could use an AV boost, so this card could come in handy.
Also keep in mind you don’t have to pick the juiciest target on your opponent’s team, consider picking a weak target. Yes it has to be a higher point cost, but not all higher cost figures are necessarily good figs. Picking one that has a low likelihood of KOing your fig back is a wise move.


Indomitable
Cost: 5
Prereq – Willpower or Battle Fury

Choose a character.
When the character is the target of an Incapacitate or a Mind Control attack, it gets +2 to its defense value.

Hey, if you’ve got the 5 points and a fig to play this on, why not? There’s a number of pieces in this set with Incap and MC, so a little added protection could be nice.


Camouflage
Cost: 8
Prereq – Shape Change

When the character is adjacent to a wall or blocking terrain, any line of fire for a ranged combat attack drawn to the character is blocked.

Sweet! Shape Change gets a much needed boost! (And this card is supposedly immune to arbitrary rulings that make it vulnerable to Trick Shot / Superman TA like Submerged is.)

Plus, if you’re playing a game on the Sinister vault map (or even the Armor Wars map) there’s so much blocking terrain that you’re almost guaranteed to always be near a wall of some kind.

Also, a trick to keep in mind is that a Barrier is considered blocking terrain, so you could throw up a wall and camouflage your figure.


Bystander Tokens

Turk Barrett – 5
MJ Watson-Parker - 5

These two are the ‘lower’ cost bystanders in the set. They’re very similar with relatively low stats. Turk has the higher Defense of the two, while MJ is a little quicker on her feet. Since you’ll probably use these as throw away pieces to block line of sight, Turk’s higher Defense might come in handy. Otherwise they’re interchangeable and completely disposable.

Jamie Madrox – 7
Dallas Riordan - 6

Sgt. Tork – 7 (6/)
Lockheed – 8 (4/)

These 4 represent bystanders that have a little more going for them. Dallas and Jamie are still relatively straightforward. They both have a 9 AV (not bad for this set!), while Jamie sports 2 damage and Dallas has the newly empowered Combat Reflexes (remember when we’d joke about giving CR to a pog?!)
(*Note: Most venues won’t be playing with the updated rules for the Pre-release, so CR on a pog is still lame until the Marquee.)

Madrox is a little pricey for a simple bystander. His 16 defense is nice, but it really won’t gain you much advantage. If you have something else to do with those 7 points, this should be a last resort.

Dallas is a little better thanks to CR and a point less cost. If you have a flier to carry her around, you can place Dallas in base contact with an opponent and keep the flier 1 square away – tying up the opponent but leaving your flier free to shoot into close combat. If the opposing fig wants to KO Dallas they have to hit her 17 defense (in close combat), or dedicate a ranged attack to taking her out. Essentially making her more of a nuisance than she’s worth in points, which is always a useful tactic.

Sgt. Tork is a fun little pog for his 7 points. He’s like the first click of any number of pieces in this set, but in pog form. :) With a fair 6 range, 9 AV, and 16 defense he can be of some good use to your team. Plus he’s the only Pog here with a 6 range, so your opponent might not even realize he’s an actual threat.

Rounding out the bunch is Shadowcat’s dragon Lockheed at 8 points. This is a fun piece for sure, but might have trouble fitting in here. At 8 points he’s just a touch pricey for a pog with limited potential. Leap/Climb is cool and will keep him mobile, it’ll also make him a good tie up piece since he can break from anyone and not get bogged down by terrain. But his 4 range is pretty limited.
He will also make a good blocker thanks to his 15 def + ES/D. If you have a point gap and nothing else to fit on the team, he could be useful, but don’t go out of your way to fit him on the team.


Special Objects

Collateral Damage introduced us to the concept of Special Objects as things that affect the battlefield, but in Sinister these objects are just basic tokens similar to the 3D objects that have an extra rule. We also only have 2, and they’re both light objects, so this is fairly simple and straightforward.

Stepladder – Light Object
When this object occupies a square of grounded terrain adjacent to a square of elevated terrain, the squares are connected by a ladder. This object is not hindering terrain for movement purposes.

Assuming you’ll play your Prerelease and/or Marquee on the Prison map, there is no elevated terrain and the primary effect of this object is moot.
However, there is a secondary effect that is equally useful; this object does not act as hindering terrain for movement purposes!
So you can use this with your Stealth figures to put them in hindering terrain for protection, but their movement is not restricted when they move off the object (or through it.)
This will be very handy if you use it, just don’t forget that its there!


Statue – Light Object
Continual. This object deals 3 damage when thrown as part of an attack targeting terrain or a wall.

FYI – ‘Continual’ means that the effect of this object is maintained when a character picks it up using Super Strength (as opposed to, say, the Laser Turret which loses its ‘special’ property after being picked up.

As for the effect, it gets a resounding ‘meh.’ Maybe, maybe in a constructed game you’ll be able to use this with a zero range, low damage, super strength fig.
Even in this format, it could come in handy.
Its not so lame that you should just leave it aside, but it’s lame enough that you won’t be jumping for joy when you pull it.

That’s it for the Pre-release / Marquee Primer Review!
Good luck in your games, and in your pulls!

italian_thug
06/16/2006, 10:56
Pummel
Cost: 10
Prereq – Combat Reflexes or Close Combat Expert
Once per turn, when the character has zero action tokens and is given a close combat action, you can ignore the result of one attack roll made for the character and reroll the dice to obtain a new result.

This is a perfect card for this set, it gives you the opportunity to re-roll a missed close combat attack (how likely is that?!).


Pummel works on action or on attack?!? or simply on attack roll of a close combat action?

Good work, like ever ;)
____________________________________
www.clixzine.it

Top10
06/16/2006, 11:02
Pummel works on action or on attack?!? or simply on attack roll of a close combat action?

Good work, like ever ;)
____________________________________
www.clixzine.it


It seems as though you can only use it on an close combat attack not on a close combat action.

This really bothers me about this card.

I guess its helpful for attacks with objects or while charging b/c you can't use CCE with those powers either.

I really was looking forward to using it on S.O.D Superman and General ZOD. It still works for them but not as well.

Pseudotheist
06/16/2006, 11:02
Tonight, ABC Family Channel Presents:
A very Special Object lesson.
The Statue got me high.
Satire, a pun, AND a semiobscure song reference, all in one caption. Nice work AZS!

clixer11
06/16/2006, 11:06
Definitely play Rushed Assault any round you face Black Bolt.

Definitely play Ground Zero if you have a swarm of low Damage Value characters.

If you have a close combat centered team (which is probably a losing proposition, but not guaranteed on the Sinister map), then you should seriously consider playing Back Alley Brawl.

Pseudotheist
06/16/2006, 11:07
The catch however is that you can only re-roll a close combat attack, even though one of the prerequisites is CCE, which is a close combat action.
Actually, CCE is a Power Action, which is why they're incompatible. If it were a Close Combat Action it would work.

Wolverine_Hulk
06/16/2006, 11:13
You finally got to show your review for the Step Ladder. Maybe Trashcan will be in the next set.

Puuka
06/16/2006, 11:21
Blackbolt is going to love carying around Lockheed as a shield (Share his 17 def with ESD for a 19 at range) or Dallas Riordan for same at close combat.

Cole Burns
06/16/2006, 11:27
Love the cards in this set. Even though they are a tad repetitive. Thanks for another great Primer!

Kallas
06/16/2006, 11:28
You finally got to show your review for the Step Ladder. Maybe Trashcan will be in the next set.
I was thinking "Chair" and "Table" should be next :laugh:

Special Light Object - Chair: when you successfully hit your opponent with this object, you may choose not to discard the item. The carrying character continues to carry the item.

Special Light Object - Table: any character receiving knock back that would cross over this object is immediately stopped on the table instead. They receive 2 damage and remove this object from the board.

Wolverine_Hulk
06/16/2006, 11:35
Azs review Trashcan for CD before he realized it wasn't in that set.

Jason Blood
06/16/2006, 11:45
Blackbolt is going to love carying around Lockheed as a shield (Share his 17 def with ESD for a 19 at range) or Dallas Riordan for same at close combat.
those new rules don't come into effect until the X-men set comes out

and it should have come out before this set...

HouseT75
06/16/2006, 11:57
I really think a few of the cards combined with the right figures will be stand outs in sealed games.

Camoflauge and a Shape Change figure will be huge, especially on the Sinster maps. Add in a Barrier figure on your team, and you're that much more tricky.

Vendetta could be particularly nasty, especially with the lower point figures with AE bases (Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Bullseye).

The other cards all have their own quirks that may or may not work well with your team, but should help out if you have the points to spare. Absolutely play Vault if you hav a figure to put it on. Find those three points. It will be totally worth it.

hulkamania85
06/16/2006, 12:23
I was thinking "Chair" and "Table" should be next :laugh:

Special Light Object - Chair: when you successfully hit your opponent with this object, you may choose not to discard the item. The carrying character continues to carry the item.

Special Light Object - Table: any character receiving knock back that would cross over this object is immediately stopped on the table instead. They receive 2 damage and remove this object from the board.

Maybe we can start seeing Table matches in Heroclix.

"Bah gawd right through the table! That Heroclix fig has a family!"

Maybe we can see a baseball bat covered in barbed wire and a sledgehammer as well.

Funky Jett
06/16/2006, 12:29
Statue – Light Object
Continual. This object deals 3 damage when thrown as part of an attack targeting terrain or a wall.

FYI – ‘Continual’ means that the effect of this object is maintained when a character picks it up using Super Strength (as opposed to, say, the Laser Turret which loses its ‘special’ property after being picked up.

As for the effect, it gets a resounding ‘meh.’ Maybe, maybe in a constructed game you’ll be able to use this with a zero range, low damage, super strength fig.
Even in this format, it could come in handy.
Its not so lame that you should just leave it aside, but it’s lame enough that you won’t be jumping for joy when you pull it.
I agree with almost all of your review, except this one. Since Icons, you can only throw objects at characters, so no destroying terrain. The Statue is the ONLY exception to that rule. And on the Sinister map, that's EXTREMELY important. I like this piece.

SevenBlueSeven
06/16/2006, 12:32
[QUOTE=azs]

Statue – Light Object
Continual. This object deals 3 damage when thrown as part of an attack targeting terrain or a wall.

FYI – ‘Continual’ means that the effect of this object is maintained when a character picks it up using Super Strength (as opposed to, say, the Laser Turret which loses its ‘special’ property after being picked up.

As for the effect, it gets a resounding ‘meh.’ Maybe, maybe in a constructed game you’ll be able to use this with a zero range, low damage, super strength fig.
Even in this format, it could come in handy.
Its not so lame that you should just leave it aside, but it’s lame enough that you won’t be jumping for joy when you pull it.
QUOTE]

I have to disagree. The statue is a wonderful replacement light object. This is like getting a free mailbox. Most pre-release events do not allow the map set pieces. The statue can even be used in multiples. With a lucky draw of a few super strength figs and this card, we have a way to make some impromptu doorways through the new map.

Mr. Pilkington
06/16/2006, 12:55
So what is the confusion on Pummel? By the text it only works on a close combat action. CCE is a Power Action, so it clearly won't work (barring some screwy ruling/faq entry). It should work for any close combat action, so the action granted by Charge will work, using Incap for close combat would work (and you could chain this with Knockdown too), BCF would work, even Flurry. Hopefully the interpretation would allow for either roll in Flurry or Knockdown to get the reroll (you did start the action as a Close Combat Action even if you were later granted free close combat attacks).

Am I missing anything? I've been out of the loop since I retired from judging again.

Top10
06/16/2006, 13:20
So what is the confusion on Pummel? By the text it only works on a close combat action. CCE is a Power Action, so it clearly won't work (barring some screwy ruling/faq entry). It should work for any close combat action, so the action granted by Charge will work, using Incap for close combat would work (and you could chain this with Knockdown too), BCF would work, even Flurry. Hopefully the interpretation would allow for either roll in Flurry or Knockdown to get the reroll (you did start the action as a Close Combat Action even if you were later granted free close combat attacks).

Am I missing anything? I've been out of the loop since I retired from judging again.

It seems like you've got the ruling correct its just the effectiveness that is in question.

If you have a figure with 1 damage and CCE then you would not be able to do 3 damage if you choose Pummel. It seems to make the card limited for what its worth.

ludd_gang
06/16/2006, 13:26
Ground Zero
Whenever a character makes a successful close combat attack, roll a six-sided die before damage is dealt. On a result of 5 or 6, the attack deals 1 additional damage. On a result of 1 or 2, after the attack resolves the attacking character is dealt 1 unavoidable damage.

On the other hand, there will already be so much rolling (and missing) in this set that adding yet another roll to every action could cause dice burn-out.



I have played one match with this card and fortunately it did not come across as overbearing. However, WK should remember Crimson Skies. That game had waaaay too much die rolling. If memory serves me, simply moving across the table sometimes had you rolling 3 or 4 times!

When we were playtesting for the Two Towers expansion for LOTR minis, they initally had an ability called Battle Savvy that created a whole lot of die re-rolling. Since that game had you rolling dice by the handfuls anyway, it was a major pain. But the designers listened and changed the mechanic into something really cool. :classic:

Pseudotheist
06/16/2006, 13:27
So what is the confusion on Pummel? By the text it only works on a close combat action. CCE is a Power Action, so it clearly won't work (barring some screwy ruling/faq entry). It should work for any close combat action, so the action granted by Charge will work, using Incap for close combat would work (and you could chain this with Knockdown too), BCF would work, even Flurry. Hopefully the interpretation would allow for either roll in Flurry or Knockdown to get the reroll (you did start the action as a Close Combat Action even if you were later granted free close combat attacks).

Am I missing anything? I've been out of the loop since I retired from judging again.
Also, since the Knockdown attack occurs after the action resolves, current prevailing opinion is that Pummel won't work on the Knockdown attack. But I don't think there's been an offical ruling.

ludd_gang
06/16/2006, 13:35
I agree with almost all of your review, except this one. Since Icons, you can only throw objects at characters, so no destroying terrain.

Wha???? Sakes, them rules do need some streamlining....

da-Craig-O
06/16/2006, 13:39
I like the idea of using Vendetta on the Scarlett Spider. His archenemy WILL NOT be on the other side of the map, since no one has him yet. ;)

AZS
06/16/2006, 13:44
I like the idea of using Vendetta on the Scarlett Spider. His archenemy WILL NOT be on the other side of the map, since no one has him yet. ;)Unfortunately if you faced another Scarlet Spider, you wouldn't be able to pick him as his own AE.

You're the clone!

No! You're the clone!

Am not!

(Slap fight ensues.)

da-Craig-O
06/16/2006, 13:50
Unfortunately if you faced another Scarlet Spider, you wouldn't be able to pick him as his own AE.

You're the clone!

No! You're the clone!

Am not!

(Slap fight ensues.)

Nice!!

I CAN pick the V black suit spidey. Bring on the clone madness!!

Jakgotbak
06/16/2006, 14:00
Definitely play Rushed Assault any round you face Black Bolt.

Not so sure I agree with that. In fact, before reading your post, I was thinking Rushed Assault would be a good idea for the guy fielding Black Bolt.

Sure, Black Bolt's Running Shot and 10 range give him the first strike advantage, but if he chooses to come in closer and use Pulse Wave, then he still won't be the one to burn the Rushed Assault card. The -2 AV modifier only applies to "The first character to make an attack targeting an opposing figure" and Pulse Wave doesn't target.

shock man x
06/16/2006, 14:10
So what is the confusion on Pummel? By the text it only works on a close combat action. CCE is a Power Action, so it clearly won't work (barring some screwy ruling/faq entry). It should work for any close combat action, so the action granted by Charge will work, using Incap for close combat would work (and you could chain this with Knockdown too), BCF would work, even Flurry. Hopefully the interpretation would allow for either roll in Flurry or Knockdown to get the reroll (you did start the action as a Close Combat Action even if you were later granted free close combat attacks).

Am I missing anything? I've been out of the loop since I retired from judging again.

Nope you're not. The only thing it doens't work with is CCE, which as you said, is a power action not a Close Combat Action.

I think people are getting the attack action thing mixed up. Close Combat Actions always make Close Combat Attacks and what the card says is that when you do a Close Combat Action you may reroll the die on the attack if you want (and meet the restrictions). You couldn't use it for HSS's attack though since that's a move action (soon power action) that grants a close combat attack, or with CCE (power action)

With CCE it's a choice, more damage, or better chance to hit. (finess over power)

Mr. Pilkington
06/16/2006, 14:14
Also, since the Knockdown attack occurs after the action resolves, current prevailing opinion is that Pummel won't work on the Knockdown attack. But I don't think there's been an offical ruling.

Okay, yeah, I see that it says after the close combat action resolves give the character a free action. Slightly different than the Flurry wording, which would have both attack rolls happen during the actual action. Poo.

If you have a figure with 1 damage and CCE then you would not be able to do 3 damage if you choose Pummel. It seems to make the card limited for what its worth.

Oh, I understand your point there, but CCE is only one of the powers that qualifies. Putting it on a Combat Reflexes piece has no conflict of interest. It does no good for someone like E Black Canary, but any figure with Super Strength and CCE could easily benefit while using an object. Gives one more benefit from having both SS and CCE. Put it on Vet Ulik and give him a reroll when he charges in with that Heavy Object. With how often I miss in that scenario, it could help a lot for 5 points.

AZS
06/16/2006, 14:17
Yeah, its a good card for a number of old figs with the redundant SS & CCE powers.

Kallas
06/16/2006, 14:20
Maybe we can start seeing Table matches in Heroclix.

"Bah gawd right through the table! That Heroclix fig has a family!"

Maybe we can see a baseball bat covered in barbed wire and a sledgehammer as well.

"What's worse than a baseball bat covered in barbed wire?"...

Cole Burns
06/16/2006, 16:00
Not so sure I agree with that. In fact, before reading your post, I was thinking Rushed Assault would be a good idea for the guy fielding Black Bolt.

Sure, Black Bolt's Running Shot and 10 range give him the first strike advantage, but if he chooses to come in closer and use Pulse Wave, then he still won't be the one to burn the Rushed Assault card. The -2 AV modifier only applies to "The first character to make an attack targeting an opposing figure" and Pulse Wave doesn't target.

That is just plain devious. I like it.

WolvieFan9
06/16/2006, 17:24
Maybe we can start seeing Table matches in Heroclix.

"Bah gawd right through the table! That Heroclix fig has a family!"

Maybe we can see a baseball bat covered in barbed wire and a sledgehammer as well.


And in conjunction with the "Spidey On The Pole" figure, perhaps we'll start seeing table dances as well...

zero_cochrane
06/16/2006, 20:05
Back Alley Brawl could be a good choice if you have TK but no actual move-and-attack powers or Perplex. Your opponent will likely have some of those powers and want to use them, thus being ineligible for Back Alley Brawl. It's a pretty cornercase situation, but it could happen.

Knockdown is a very good card for 5 points. All those "ifs" really do boil down to a straightforward effect - perhaps WK is trying to avoid errataing this feat by putting all the clarifications on the card first. :)
And one of those "ifs" won;t come into play in sealed Sinister games anyway. How often are you going to hit with an Incapacitate attack and then lose Incapacitate before making the second attack? Without Thunderbolts/Mystics/Crossgen and Stunning Blow, never.

Vendetta is a no-brainer if you have an AE character and the points to spare. It doesn't penalise you if your opponent has the other AE, and you can choose anybody as your character's AE, so you have a strategic edge. I like it.

Draggor
06/17/2006, 07:20
"What's worse than a baseball bat covered in barbed wire?"...

Oh my gawd!!! He's set the bat on fire!!!

Ignatz_Mouse
06/17/2006, 10:31
Pummel *will* work with CCE. CCE is an *action* which grants an attack. Read the power, it's quite clear. In fact, that wording on pummel is good, because it doesn't matter what type of action allows the attack, it will work with any of them. Such as HSS.

n/m, I misread Pummel. I thought it said it worked with a close combat attack.

olcottr
06/17/2006, 13:11
Um, did everyone miss the fact that Ground Zero only affects close combat attacks? Doesn't that make it perfect for a ranged team?

olcottr
06/17/2006, 13:18
Now that I think about it, Ground Zero could be great if you have a MC'er. You MC your opponent's character to close combat attack another one, and you have a 66% chance of doing an extra point of damage to somebody.

zero_cochrane
06/17/2006, 20:55
Regarding Pummel, I think people need to read the card again:

Pummel
Cost: 10
Prereq – Combat Reflexes or Close Combat Expert
Once per turn, when the character has zero action tokens and is given a close combat action, you can ignore the result of one attack roll made for the character and reroll the dice to obtain a new result.

Close Combat Action.

So it works with Flurry, it works with BCF, it works with Exploit Weakness and so on...

It doesn't work with CCE, Support, or anything else that requires a Power Action.

tidge
06/17/2006, 22:08
I pulled Pummel, Back Alley Brawl, and Ground Zero. Here are my impressions:

I played Pummel on Exp Mockingbird. She never had the chance to make a CCE attack, so that never came up :( She did get to use the card once when she rolled a critical miss on her first Flurry attack. This feat is not likely to be used by me again....to be fair, if we had been using the +2 DV for Combat Reflexes, I might feel otherwise.

Back Alley Brawl never got played. Every figure I pulled has some power or TA that would be used in attacks, plus I pulled/played two perplexers. This was a can of worms that would have only hurt me.

Ground Zero: I played this all three rounds. The first round we misread the card, and so rolled for it before every attack...and boy did those critical misses w/unavoidable self-damage hurt! Since I had a swarm team, it helped (and hurt) in my next two rounds (in which we played it correctly).

Against a small numbers team (w/ big damage) when my opponent got the extra point, it usually didn't matter (5 or 6 damage was just overkill) but it really made opponents forgo CC attacks....meaning I often got hindering bonuses, etc.

Against another 'swarmy army' with VERY high defenses (Valkyrie, Kazar, Kick Fury) I needed the extra luck factor (good for me, bad for him) to whittle those characters down.

My conclusion on Ground Zero is that it is a good decision to use it if you have as some of your forces CC pieces, but not necessarily high natural damage.

The consensus at out PR was that its time to retire the BFC idea.

Ignatz_Mouse
06/18/2006, 01:32
Madrox pog was great in the prerelease. His high D was helpful, but even better was his high attack and 2 damage. I sent him in after knocking attack values down a little and he was golden. Either my opponent had to attack him, or he could hurt them. And only 7 points at stake.

HouseT75
06/18/2006, 13:19
After going through the prerelease, I have to say that the cards can be hit or miss.

I gave V Daredevil Knockdown and Vault. I never did use the Knockdown card, but between having 2 Outwitters, 3 damage, and facing very active teams, it never really factored in to Icapacitate twice in the same turn.

Vault, however, was just as handy as I thought it would be. Freeing up space for other figures to attack or getting out of the line of fire of the enemies was more than useful. 3 points well spent. And I don't necessarily regret playing Knockdown, because if the situation had presented itself I would have used it.

lancelot
06/19/2006, 13:18
Madrox pog was great in the prerelease. His high D was helpful, but even better was his high attack and 2 damage. I sent him in after knocking attack values down a little and he was golden. Either my opponent had to attack him, or he could hurt them. And only 7 points at stake.

Yep, that 16D on a 7 point piece and having to range on him through Hindering most of the time just made him the best 7 points on my team.

I ran:

U Black Bolt
V Madrox
P Jamie Madrox
R Sprite
E Bullseye

I took 1st, going 3-0. I guess if you have Black Bolt, you should be going undefeated :p

olcottr
06/19/2006, 13:42
I pulled Pummel, Back Alley Brawl, and Ground Zero. Here are my impressions:

I played Pummel on Exp Mockingbird. She never had the chance to make a CCE attack, so that never came up :( She did get to use the card once when she rolled a critical miss on her first Flurry attack. This feat is not likely to be used by me again....to be fair, if we had been using the +2 DV for Combat Reflexes, I might feel otherwise.

Back Alley Brawl never got played. Every figure I pulled has some power or TA that would be used in attacks, plus I pulled/played two perplexers. This was a can of worms that would have only hurt me.

Ground Zero: I played this all three rounds. The first round we misread the card, and so rolled for it before every attack...and boy did those critical misses w/unavoidable self-damage hurt! Since I had a swarm team, it helped (and hurt) in my next two rounds (in which we played it correctly).

Against a small numbers team (w/ big damage) when my opponent got the extra point, it usually didn't matter (5 or 6 damage was just overkill) but it really made opponents forgo CC attacks....meaning I often got hindering bonuses, etc.

Against another 'swarmy army' with VERY high defenses (Valkyrie, Kazar, Kick Fury) I needed the extra luck factor (good for me, bad for him) to whittle those characters down.

My conclusion on Ground Zero is that it is a good decision to use it if you have as some of your forces CC pieces, but not necessarily high natural damage.

The consensus at out PR was that its time to retire the BFC idea.

Good observations. It's hard to conceive of a good team that could benefit from Back Alley Brawl. It's been my opinion that Feats are meant to enhance your team and BFC's are meant to restrict your opponent's.

olcottr
06/19/2006, 13:51
I kind of view Pummel as the close combat Trick Shot. It gives a bonus to those with Charge and Close Combat Expert to offset somewhat the inability to use CCE after Charge.