View Full Version : The Trophy Room The Trophy Room: Venom!
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He’s one of the most popular Spider-Man villains of all time and now he’s back as new LE. Venom! No longer doing that “bird on a wire” thing, the new Venom looks to be mad as all get out. Maybe it’s because he thinks he should have been called “Eddie Brock” since he’s the LE. Maybe he just bit his tongue – being as big as it is it would be easy to do. Regardless, does he have the numbers to back up that “Come get some!” pose? Come and see!
Here is the new Venom, not the same as the old Venom.
Venom (LE #218 – ClixBrick Mailaway)
Points: 105
Type: V+ (For the purposes of this review, he will be compared to CM Vet Venom #072, since that’s the only other iteration of Venom we have.)
Clicks: 9
Range: 6
Targets: 1
LE Venom’s Gains vs. CM Veteran Venom
With an increase of 21 points over the CM Vet Venom, one would expect that the LE possesses more than a few exciting upgrades and LE Venom does not disappoint. For starters, he adds the Sinister Syndicate team ability and his range gets a boost to six (6). On the back half of his dial, LE Venom’s speed is slightly increased. More interestingly, his attack and defense numbers are enhanced. The LE gains one additional click of 10, 9 and 8 attack, and two clicks of 17 defense. Of even greater importance, though, is his rainbow of additional powers. The LE picks up one click of Willpower, two clicks each of Stealth, Charge, Plasticity, Steal Energy and Exploit Weakness, and five clicks each of Combat Reflexes and Close Combat Expert. All of that equates to LE Venom being the only other Marvel character since Ultimate’s Frank Castle to have a power on every single spot of his dial. That has to be worth something right there. All in all, given the point spread and the power progression between the REV and the new LE, it's like we now have a Venom REV and super-Vet.
LE Venom’s Losses vs. CM Veteran Venom
While LE Venom adds that impressive array of fruit flavored aggression, he does so at the expense of a few powers that we have associated with Venom over the past few years. The LE gives up six (6) clicks of Leap/Climb, three (3) of Super Strength, two (2) each of Perplex and Toughness, and one of Blades/Claws/Fangs. The LE also drops one click of two (2) damage.
Neutral Dial Tinkering
Nothing that is done to Venom occurs without impact, either positive or negative.
Cards that Work
Pounce, that old chestnut that has been serving Venoms well for the past few years will still works its magic on the LE, albeit on a much more limited basis since he’s only got three Leap/Climb clicks. The best news is that after one quick Pounce his attack his attack jumps to 11, but all of his other values remain constant and he gains Stealth and Toughness. After he takes a few good hits, Nanobots could help him get all the way back to the top of his dial to begin that wacky Pouncing all over again!
LE Venom’s new six (6) range may be an improvement over the old model, but it still isn’t great. In order to prevent him from getting cut ribbons by snipers, particularly when he's on those Combat Reflexes clicks where his defensive values drift from 14 to 10, try another old favorite – Darkness. That way everyone else’s range is no better than Venom’s and the playing field is effectively leveled. Another fun option could be Earthquake. Venom’s late dial Steal Energy will allow him to heal himself pretty reliably thanks to high attack values (9 and 10, respectively) when the power shows up giving him a potential edge over other quake victims. He gains further advantage if he’s equipped with Nanobots.
If ol_Dut had to Choose
LE Venom vs. CM Veteran Venom? The CM Vet Venom has been a favorite of mine since he first fell out of the booster pack, but the new LE Venom is going to keep him in the case for the majority of the time and there are a multitude of reasons why. First, I love that Sinister Syndicate TA, especially since so many other SS figures have lousy attack values (that’s you Rhino, Kingpin, Jack O’Lantern, Hydro Man, Stilt Man, Whirlwind, Boomerang, and darn near everyone else with that TA). Venom’s 9’s, 10’s and that zippy lone 11 attack are terrific and very much worth copying. Second, even though the loss of Perplex Super Strength is painful, it’s departure is more than made up for with the host of damage enhancing powers he possesses like CCE and Exploit Weakness. Most of the time he doesn’t need an object to bring big the pain as those powers add damage on or penetrate straight through all by themselves.
Two things on Venom’s dial nag at me, however. The biggest issue I have is that Incapacitate. Normally I’m a big fan of having options, and the Incap definitly provides an alternative for an effective ranged attack. But sadly it is an option I’m likely never to take. Look at his dial. All of that CCE, Exploit and Combat Reflexes. Venom is built to get in close and make some people pay, so the majority of the time his range will be pointless as he’ll be all up in the grill of one or more opponents. When adjacent to some bad guys, if I have the choice of Incap or doing solid damage (three (3) via CCE and two (2) via Exploit) what do you think I’m going to choose? I’ll do the damage every time and ignore the two slots of Incapacitate. In their stead I would rather have seen more BCF, Super Strength or preferably Steal Energy. Which leads me to my other concern about his dial – the Steal Energy. By the time he gets the power and assuming that he garners the full benefit from it, he winds up on his seventh click sporting an eight (8) attack with BCF, a 12 defense with CR, and 2 damage with Outwit. While Outwit is always welcome, the attack and defense numbers leave a lot to be desired. If Steal Energy would have put him on a better attack value rather than moving him south from the 9 and 10 he’s got when he has the power, I’d be much more excited about pulling off that particular gambit. As it stands it’s rather a mixed blessing; yes it helps Venom hang in there longer but by dropping him down to an eight (8) attack his fight has just become more difficult. Let’s hope when that happens he’s got a fresh CM Experienced Kraven right next to him just ready and waiting to slip Venom his big fat 10 attack.
That said, let’s be clear; LE Venom is a great piece. But with a few minor adjustments he could have been even better. In total, though, what we are really left with is a Venom for all seasons. No matter what the point cost, if you want a Venom, you’ve got one and they’re all good. Starting at 55 points, Rookie Venom is a fine choice when you’re running out of room. The Experienced and the Vet also do their jobs well for their points. But when you’ve got the points to spare, the new LE, in all of his menacing, tongue-wagging glory, is truly a blast to play.
Quick and Dirty Price Tag
If you’re ready to move up to the super-Vet, the swanky new LE Venom is going to set you back somewhere between $20 to $30 if you didn’t buy your brick and get him for a measly $2.00. If you haven’t done so yet, send in for him already before time runs out! Me, I’m glad I’ve got a bunch of these guys.
That’s all for this week. Thanks for reading!
Wolverine_Hulk
08/24/2006, 10:32
Great Review old Dut! What about Vendetta on him?
I'm pretty sure Venom is the only fig so far to have Charge, B/C/F, and Exploit Weakness on the same click. Too bad he only has an 8 AV at that point, but it's still pretty cool.
Good review. I love the sculpt. I'll have to try him out. I am a big fan of the CM versions.
The only beef I have is the low def. But oh well, I still think he will kick some ###.:)
DrDoom1117
08/24/2006, 10:46
i LOVE THIS NEW VENOM!! I thrashed a Vet Icons Superman with him. Time ran out before I could make the knock out, oh well.
epalicki
08/24/2006, 10:53
I like this Venom!
I was thinking: Venom + Passenger. He carries someone w/ Sinister Syndicate or WC onto hindering, pushing into stealth and 11AV, which his passenger can borrow.
ShellShock
08/24/2006, 11:04
Great Review old Dut! What about Vendetta on him?
He's a little pricey for Vendetta IMHO
Great review as usual
Great Review old Dut! What about Vendetta on him?
On the whole I think his attack values are good enough that he doesn't "need" Vendetta, though there are a couple clicks that could use boost;) . Another option would be to drop Vault on him, since it's cheap and it gives him some odd form of mobility and can open up lines of fire. Or maybe even Knockdown so that for five more points some of my concerns over those Incap clicks can be mitigated - although since the victem gets a +2 to his defense, Venom is effectively swinging away with a 7 or 8 attack. Not the best odds for success, but it might work.
Great Review old Dut! What about Vendetta on him?
Entangle could also serve as insurance as when he hits Plasticity his defense is down to a 10 and an 11 with CR, and just about anybody could hit that.
ShearForce
08/24/2006, 11:20
I thought the dials may help :)
Venom
Range 6
Range Attacks 1
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal101017210111729101618915288142771327813269112510102KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
CM Veteran Venom (#072)
Range 4
Range Attacks 1
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal10111621010162910152891427813278132671226712256112KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
coyotejack
08/24/2006, 11:37
Excellent as always 'Dut!
I can't wait until Venom finally graces my mailbox. I forsee Pounce, a lamppost, and possibly Nanobots in his future. The R/E/V has been a favorite set of pouncers for me in the past and pounce does seem costly to add to a 105 pt. figure, but I think the good outweighs the bad. Even if you don't use Nanobots, the pounce will enhance his later two clicks of Leap/Climb and low AV.
Generally my Super Strength Pouncers carry a lamppost to slow down their victims, and LE Venom is an exceptional piece to keep doing so. The last thing your opponent wants is to have a figure not just bashed by a pouncing Venom, but have an action token slapped on them while Venom just got a boost to an 11 AV + CCE. :) That's so good it's silly.
Buddyhoss
08/24/2006, 11:38
Think of those Incap clicks like this: If you have the option of using CCE on a Invulnerable/Impervious guy for 1 damage or Incapping him for 1 push damage and a token, which would you do? Same goes for Exploit Weakness against guys with Fortitude.
EmperorNorton
08/24/2006, 11:58
He's a great figure, so I agree with the review.
That's why I traded for him and am currently eagerly awaiting his arrival.
However, I have no idea what (non theme) team to play him on.
da-Craig-O
08/24/2006, 11:59
I agree with Buddyhoss. Also, if you find your damage powers outwitted, you still have an option agains invul./imperv. Great review though.
i always liked CM Vet Venom mucho...and that i can put Brilliant Tactician on people so they go WTF???
new venom is good, but for 20 points less...i'm still leaning on old Big Teeth.
Webheadman
08/24/2006, 13:18
i always liked CM Vet Venom mucho...and that i can put Brilliant Tactician on people so they go WTF???
new venom is good, but for 20 points less...i'm still leaning on old Big Teeth.
well you have to atleast try him out:)
although for some reason every time i play him i pounce and the the oponents entire team go after him he's good but he can't take down an entire team guess they are just scared of him and that is a good thing.;)
big targets can be good....as long as the rest of my team goes unnoticed....
still brilliant tactician, pounce, nanobots, and rip it up always made for a killer venom
NeoShazam
08/24/2006, 13:58
He's ok , if its a choice between new or old I'm sticking with the Old WAY before this one. Incap is always good to have as an option , especially with Impervious/Protected.
My problem is the horrible late dial defense value , unfortunately the low defense values with combat reflexes count for nothing 99% of the time , the other 1% will be when we have a scenario of changing powers and/or I fit somebody with Defend near him.
Overall he's neat but I think he'll have a bigger target on him then his 106 pt price tag can handle.
Sculpt is amazing though.
absolutvt69
08/24/2006, 14:51
i always liked CM Vet Venom mucho...and that i can put Brilliant Tactician on people so they go WTF???
new venom is good, but for 20 points less...i'm still leaning on old Big Teeth.
The Vet CM Venom doesn't have a TA so he can't use Brilliant Tactician.
Buddyhoss
08/24/2006, 14:53
i always liked CM Vet Venom mucho...and that i can put Brilliant Tactician on people so they go WTF???
new venom is good, but for 20 points less...i'm still leaning on old Big Teeth.
You can put Brilliant Tactacian on CM Venom, but it doesn't do anything. You can only use the Perplex on figures with the same Team Ability, which Venom lacks. Having a TA is a hidden prerequisite that Venom doesn't have. If I saw you with BT on Venom I'd go WTF too! ;)
MadWuher
08/24/2006, 15:04
Just thinking aloud here:
If this Venom pounces (which requires a click of damage), using the Fuel Tank heavy object (which adds 1 damage to all figures adjacent to the target), will he take 2 damage or just 1?
Options:
A: He takes the pounce damage first, then the fuel tank "splash" damage which gets reduced by 1 thanks to toughness.
B: He takes the fuel tank "splash" damage first, then takes the one for pounce.
I'm guessing option B, but thought I'd ask.......
ha my bad...ur right...they need to come up with a generic ta for dudes with no team ability.....that would be so broken....but....at least i can use brilliant tactician!
bradley2099
08/24/2006, 17:08
Fun review. Can't wait to use him.
TimoSupremo
08/24/2006, 17:12
What a coincidence..........I just came home from work and the first thing I see is that my Sinister "Buy It By The Brick" mailaway LE VENOM has arrived in it's square little cardboard box direct from WizKids!!!!!!
Then I turn on my laptop and logon to HCrealms and the first thing I see is good Ol'Duts review of the WizKids Sinister "Buy It By the Brick" mailaway LE Venom!!!!
WOW......it must be a sign, Venom is here in a BIG way. :angry:
another cheap card to add on would be Vault in conjunction with Pounce. After Pouncing, Venom could move into an adjacent square with hindering terrain, and then he's clicked into his Stealth/11 ATK/CCE/Toughness click. He doesn't have much leap climb, but Vault's only 3 points.
Webheadman
08/24/2006, 17:23
another cheap card to add on would be Vault in conjunction with Pounce. After Pouncing, Venom could move into an adjacent square with hindering terrain, and then he's clicked into his Stealth/11 ATK/CCE/Toughness click. He doesn't have much leap climb, but Vault's only 3 points.
and don't forget you can use vault with combat reflexes and venom has 4 clicks of it right?;)
UltraDRGN
08/24/2006, 17:30
I do think that Defend is the secret to Venom. He hits hard his entire dial, but his defence for the last half just isn't going to stop any attack rolls above a 3. Get somebody with a 16-17 defend to hang out with him, and at the very least they'll have to split their attack between the 2 or hope to get lucky, all the while Venom will be eating their faces.
MadCap#1
08/24/2006, 17:43
Seems like Hydro-Man just found himself another way to become useful.
Using his Defend power he pumps up Venom for defense, and Venom's team ability pumps up his attack. Not a bad deal.
Webheadman
08/24/2006, 17:43
I do think that Defend is the secret to Venom. He hits hard his entire dial, but his defence for the last half just isn't going to stop any attack rolls above a 3. Get somebody with a 16-17 defend to hang out with him, and at the very least they'll have to split their attack between the 2 or hope to get lucky, all the while Venom will be eating their faces.
what are some good defend pieces i was thinking the old black suit spidey and then he can share the 11 attack all the way down venoms dial but he costs even more then venom:disappoin
Seems like Hydro-Man just found himself another way to become useful.
Using his Defend power he pumps up Venom for defense, and Venom's team ability pumps up his attack. Not a bad deal.
the only problem i see with that is how is he gonna keep up with venom? and he also can't move through hindering and can't use swingline.
I thought the dials may help :)
Venom
Range 6
Range Attacks 1
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal101017210111729101618915288142771327813269112510102KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
CM Veteran Venom (#072)
Range 4
Range Attacks 1
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal10111621010162910152891427813278132671226712256112KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
This would be great to include in all future LE reviews, don't you think?
AngeHamm
08/24/2006, 19:55
LE VEnom is totally Eddie "Skittles" Brock. Taste the rainbow.
ThePieMan
08/24/2006, 22:47
The only complaint I have is his low defense. Protected will be a must. He is a brute, and can do some damage just as long as he gets his hit in.
Invis-slayer
08/24/2006, 23:21
Yep can't wait till i find this guy in my mailbox for sure [tomorrow i hope!!]
Great review as always, but I must say I think the incap is actually a great power placement. At the point in his dial where those two clix arrive he is not dying to be in close combat. Odds are at that point he has already deliverd a pouncing SS hit for 5, maybe the rest of your team can finish off the fig he smoked-maybe they didnt and he has to swing again, he hopefully takes a small hit, lands on those clicks that still have reasonable defense, so if he is in close combat he can use those powers, and if not he can harass another fig at range with incap, likely are large point figure that is not going to want to base venom at all [because he really does seem tooled to taking out figures bigger than himself]- really gives him solid options on those 2 clix no matter what the circumstances!!
I do have one timing question.
My venom has 1 action token on him and he is on his first click, I pounce in grab and item and do 5. Does his willpower still help me avoid the pushing damage, or do I take the pounce damage move off willpower to toughness and take pushing damage?
Basically will he take 1 or 2 damage as a result of pouncing with 1 action token?
Webheadman
08/25/2006, 00:24
as far as i know you aply pushing damage at the end of the action so you would take the pounce click first then the push i asked the same question but with v ult spidey.
I think he's so much better than the V that I'm thinking about using the V as trade bait. I would still have the E if I wanted to use that setup but 30pts less.
Vevilaughs
08/25/2006, 11:46
While his DV is TERRIBLE, without a doubt, the combination with 5 clicks of Combat Reflexes mean that you still have the Knockback Option to help you get out of a sticky situation, AND he is easy to heal.
Although I aggree with the above that Venom should have gotten rid of the Incap and brought in an additional click of Super Strenght and BCF.
With the loss of Perplex, the LE has a decrease in his wall-breaking also. Without using an object, he only has 3 clicks where he has a chance to break a wall with BCF.
I can't see putting Pounce on him myself. I think I would more likely play Pummel on him.
ludd_gang
08/25/2006, 13:09
Another advantage of Incapacitate that hasn't been mentioned: Timing. Sometimes depriving an opponent an action nets more damage in the long term. For example, if Venom can keep a wounded foe from Leap/Climbing away so he can either push to attack again next turn or maybe have another team mate put a shot in, it can be well worth it.
While his DV is TERRIBLE, without a doubt
Of course, you could pair him with a character with Defend (say E Hydro-Man, and then you have a symbiotic pair - how fitting for Venom) or be a complete dink and Sidekick him to a 210-point-plus character with a high DV, and he actually becomes harder to hit as he progresses through his dial.
The nice thing about a carpy DV is it's easy to fix.
He will play well with Shadow Lass who can use her Defend to help him out, and she can borrow the attack.
Hydro Man is a good option too for Themed play (but he only has one click of Defend)
I am always loathed to put Pounce on a figure with Willpower, but with Nanobots as well Venom could work well with the Dumpster. Pounce in using it and place it under himself to gain stealth. Then push next turn to use CCE, and eat the Dumpster after he clears to be back on his starting click!
Ghost_Rider
08/26/2006, 10:10
I think the Incapacitate could also come in handy if say, veteran Superman is on the board and has another one of your figures in his sights that you don't want to lose. Venom could give him a second token to push him and keep him tied up for the next round so you can save your man.
stevebo0124
08/26/2006, 12:40
Quick and Dirty Price Tag
If you’re ready to move up to the super-Vet, the swanky new LE Venom is going to set you back somewhere between $20 to $30 if you didn’t buy your brick and get him for a measly $2.00. If you haven’t done so yet, send in for him already before time runs out! Me, I’m glad I’ve got a bunch of these guys.Luckily I managed to get one off of EBay for $10.69 which is great. I got everything I wanted from Sinister and didn't even buy a brick. The only boosters I bought were at WWE and the only reason I bought those were because they weren't avalible yet. YAY me :laugh:
Great review and article as always.
the only problem i see with that is how is he gonna keep up with venom? and he also can't move through hindering and can't use swingline.
That's where the Passenger idea would come in handy.
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