Lets try Firelord.

[batjester]

I had some good comments/arguements regarding the Thanos I did, so lets see what happens with Firelord.

U Firelord
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 10 ///
Points: ???
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal12111841010173101017399162991628816388152891631010164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

The lack of damage reducers is so you could put on Force Field for added toughness. With 3 targets (never could figure out why the original only had 1) and EE, Armor Piercing is a good idea. The running shot is a must, unless he's a transporter (Doesn't really seem like a fit to me). The regen at the end is just because you never see heralds of Galactus really die (Nova just hasn't had time to be brought back yet).


Alright, give it to me. ANY comments are welcome. :)

[xXHushXx]

I don't think giving him at least Invulnerability is a stretch, with Power Cosmic giving him "superhuman durability." (Wikipedia)

Maybe either: 1) a click of Impervious, and three of Invulnerability, or 2) 2 Imp, 2 Inv. Since he has "virtual invulnerability" (Wikipedia)

Otherwise, not bad. An extra 10 on attack would be nice, or maybe even one more 11, while dropping one attack elsewhere.

[spiderman9797]

I really don't think he should have Earthbound or one point on his dial where he CAN'T hurt an Invulnerability figure. Its not like he has some flying apparatus that can be disabled, but he can just freely fly at will (like Superman, he should never have Earthbound either). Also, all Heralds should be able to do damage to Invulnerable figs on all parts of their dials. I would also give him 1 more click of 11 attack, and definately, definately, definately give him Impervious or Invulnerability, just like xXHushXx said. 2 click of Impervious, and 2 of Invulnerability.

[batjester]

The reason I went with earth bound on those middle clicks is so he could be carried if need, just something a little different.

I agree that he could easily have Imp or Inv, but having the ability to have a 20 defence at range with toughness via Force Field was just too hard to pass up (he doen't deserve a natural 20 or 19 IMO). If I put damage reducers anywhere it takes away that option.



U Firelord
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 10 ///
Points: ???
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal121118410101731010173991629101628916288153891631010154KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Changed things up just a bit. Added another 10 att on click five, and a 9 on click seven. Flipped the naked 2 damage to click six and added RCE, moving the naked 3 to click seven. Ditched the earth bound.

I'm guessing he'd run in the 175-200 range.

[biz567]

That's a cool dial, though when I pay for a click that costs about 175, I want some damage reducers. Though the ESD is very cool, but it later in his dial, and have Impervious up front. Otherwise, nice job.

[Mr. Cranberry]

Like you had mentioned in your Thanos thread, "...even Joey the Snake can hit that Defense..." Firelords final Def w/Regen could mirror MoS Supes. Have it jump to a 19. Since he's already jumping ATT & Dam values (to show a final Nova Blast?) he may as well get the bump in Def. That could be explained that he's adiating such power that the attacks are being destroyed/incinerated before they can reach him.

[batjester]

Like you had mentioned in your Thanos thread, "...even Joey the Snake can hit that Defense..." Firelords final Def w/Regen could mirror MoS Supes. Have it jump to a 19. Since he's already jumping ATT & Dam values (to show a final Nova Blast?) he may as well get the bump in Def. That could be explained that he's adiating such power that the attacks are being destroyed/incinerated before they can reach him.


Now that's just mean, I like it. :grin: I'll make the change tomorrow, I'm waaaaaaaay too tired tonight.

[spiderman9797]

I really wouldn't advise basing your dial around feats. Try and make them without thinking of feats. I see this guy as being under "Black Bolt" syndrome or "Man of Steel" syndrome, where, at that cost, if he doesn't have damage reducers, he will fall fast and hard. Impervious/Invulnerability for 4 clicks is better than Toughness for 7 clicks. Here is what I would do:

Bump his defense up to 18 on his second click. Make him have Impervious on clicks 3 and 4, and Invulnerability on clicks 5 and 6. And leave everything else alone. Honestly, how many times have you seen him create a fire-barrier? And how many times would you use that in Heroclix? Other than his defense, your improved dial is perfect for him.

[xXHushXx]

Bump his defense up to 18 on his second click. Make him have Impervious on clicks 3 and 4, and Invulnerability on clicks 5 and 6. And leave everything else alone. Honestly, how many times have you seen him create a fire-barrier? And how many times would you use that in Heroclix? Other than his defense, your improved dial is perfect for him.

Yeah, maybe the line should go:

18 18 17 16 16 16 15 15 16

The double 18s is a lot, but no reducers makes up for it a bit. Should be fun.

[spiderman9797]

Yeah, maybe the line should go:

18 18 17 16 16 16 15 15 16

The double 18s is a lot, but no reducers makes up for it a bit. Should be fun.
That is exactly as I invisioned it. I agree that he should have ESD to start off with and a high defense, but he will fall if he doesn't have damage good damage reducers somewhere on the dial.

[batjester]

That is exactly as I invisioned it. I agree that he should have ESD to start off with and a high defense, but he will fall if he doesn't have damage good damage reducers somewhere on the dial.


The problem I have with damage reducers on him is that there are too many ways around it, I'd rather have the high defense from range since that's how he's going to be fighting mostly. I agree with the changing the barrier though.

[xXHushXx]

The problem I have with damage reducers on him is that there are too many ways around it, I'd rather have the high defense from range since that's how he's going to be fighting mostly. I agree with the changing the barrier though.

Yeah, but you could use that argument for Superman, Nimrod, Magneto, etc.

The way me and Spizzie proposed it is a fair balance we think. He starts with the high, unprotected defense, and then he gets more durable as the defense falls. It's actually a great balance IMO, when his defense is high, he can have ES/D, since it's higher, but when it's lower and he's more prone to be hit, he gets some reducers to help out his lower values.

[batjester]

Ok you win :p . I gave him some damage reducers, but put them mid dial so if he regens he can reach them again. 3 clicks of up front ESD with one 18 and 2 17's keep him safe from range (Vet Supes needs an 8 to hit him, most everyone else needs a 10 or better). I went with Mr Cranberry's idea of the 19 regen at the end (rep for that coming your way). So now what do you think?

U Firelord
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 10 ///
Points: ???
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal121118410101731010173991629101628916288153891531010194KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

With Nova Blast, if you ended up on the 7th click you could NB to get to that 19 def with regen, nice way to control your own fate. Even without NB he's still someone to watch out for.

[maraxus_60]

Heres how I see Firelord
The black spaces in damage are NOT Outwit
he isnt that smart (and Yes I really like the character)
And yes I realize I did the dreaded 9Atk 17Def that seth does BUT he becomes infinitely better when he is pushed or hit for more than 1 or 2


Firelord
Flight
10 Range 2 Targets
225 Points

Movement
10 10 10 11 12 10 09 08 09 09 10
Attack
09 10 11 11 12 09 08 08 09 10 11
Defense
15 16 16 17 18 18 17 16 15 16 17
Damage
03 03 04 05 05 04 03 03 04 05 05

[Mr. Cranberry]

Ok you win :p . I gave him some damage reducers, but put them mid dial so if he regens he can reach them again. 3 clicks of up front ESD with one 18 and 2 17's keep him safe from range (Vet Supes needs an 8 to hit him, most everyone else needs a 10 or better). I went with Mr Cranberry's idea of the 19 regen at the end (rep for that coming your way). So now what do you think?

U Firelord
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 10 ///
Points: ???
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal121118410101731010173991629101628916288153891531010194KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

With Nova Blast, if you ended up on the 7th click you could NB to get to that 19 def with regen, nice way to control your own fate. Even without NB he's still someone to watch out for.

If this dial could net him no more than 178-188pts I'd say he would be great.

[Kite-Man]

Not sure about that last click.
I know I wouldn't roll my Regeneration.

The rest is cool.

[xXHushXx]

Ok you win :p . I gave him some damage reducers, but put them mid dial so if he regens he can reach them again. 3 clicks of up front ESD with one 18 and 2 17's keep him safe from range (Vet Supes needs an 8 to hit him, most everyone else needs a 10 or better). I went with Mr Cranberry's idea of the 19 regen at the end (rep for that coming your way). So now what do you think?

U Firelord
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 10 ///
Points: ???
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal121118410101731010173991629101628916288153891531010194KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

With Nova Blast, if you ended up on the 7th click you could NB to get to that 19 def with regen, nice way to control your own fate. Even without NB he's still someone to watch out for.

This is much better. Good work. :cool:

[maraxus_60]

what no one likes mine?

[batjester]

Heres how I see Firelord
The black spaces in damage are NOT Outwit
he isnt that smart (and Yes I really like the character)
And yes I realize I did the dreaded 9Atk 17Def that seth does BUT he becomes infinitely better when he is pushed or hit for more than 1 or 2


Firelord
Flight
10 Range 2 Targets
225 Points

Movement
10 10 10 11 12 10 09 08 09 09 10
Attack
09 10 11 11 12 09 08 08 09 10 11
Defense
15 16 16 17 18 18 17 16 15 16 17
Damage
03 03 04 05 05 04 03 03 04 05 05

Not sure why he would have support on his dial and the four 5's for damage seem too high to me. He's a herald of Galactus, but he always seemed to be a little on the weeker side compared to Surfer or Terrax IMO.

[xXHushXx]

what no one likes mine?

It's severely undercosted and too powerful for the character. There's no way he's 225.

It's helpful to design figures within the context of the game. Seth would never design a character with those numbers for that cost. Even Jon L would be hard pressed to justify that dial.

It has five clicks of Running Shot (very expensive), Psychic Blast w/ 5 damage (expensive), 4 clicks of 5 damage (even the most expensive normal figure, Ganthet has only 3), and hits harder than most figures in the game, for only 225.

I'm sorry, but he's way too good. Tone down the damage a lot (no 5 damage at all, or 1 click at the very most) and also make his defense more normal.

[spiderman9797]

I really like the new and improved dial, batjester. Not perfect (compared to what xXHushXx made his defense), but no dial is, and definately accurate and playable. Good job. Rep coming your way.

[Mr. Cranberry]

It's helpful to design figures within the context of the game. Seth would never design a character with those numbers for that cost. Even Jon L would be hard pressed to justify that dial.

Well Jon L did give us Ult Thor at 186pts.;)

[maraxus_60]

It's severely undercosted and too powerful for the character. There's no way he's 225.

How is he Undercosted? None of his stats are that Stellar

It's helpful to design figures within the context of the game. Seth would never design a character with those numbers for that cost. Even Jon L would be hard pressed to justify that dial.

IMO Context of the game is whatever the designer wants it to be at that time
Look at Seths Dials compared to Jon L's
Seth saw a game that was too fast and tried to tone it down without thinking about the consequences of introducing reverse power creep
Jon L saw the game Rise in abilities and quickness. I liked it when I could play 3 games in a 3 hour period at 45 mins per round.
Now I'm pressed for time especially when its a restricted event

It has five clicks of Running Shot (very expensive), Psychic Blast w/ 5 damage (expensive), 4 clicks of 5 damage (even the most expensive normal figure, Ganthet has only 3), and hits harder than most figures in the game, for only 225.

I've toned down the Damage like you suggested
However the running shot stays NO OTHER MOVEMENT powers are there
Now IF I make the Dial 1 click shorter 10 clix instead of 11 the point cost Shouldnt be off and not only does he lose the 5 clix of Running Shot but he loses a 5 DMG as well

I'm sorry, but he's way too good. Tone down the damage a lot (no 5 damage at all, or 1 click at the very most) and also make his defense more normal.

Whats wrong with his defense?
It starts out low rises with his attitude the falls in place
The only improvement there should be that it just falls and Here ya go
These are the changes that I have made
even raised his cost a little
And to Batjester there ya go NO MORE support I agree he may be a herald of Galactus BUT he isnt as powerful as the Surfer
He is however alot more powerful than Terrax though
Better?


Firelord
Flight
10 Range 2 Targets
235 Points

Movement
10 10 10 11 12 10 09 08 09 09
Attack
09 10 11 11 12 09 08 08 09 10
Defense
15 16 16 17 18 18 17 16 16 15
Damage
03 03 04 04 05 04 03 03 03 04

[spiderman9797]

Eh... batjester still has the more accurate version. IMO

[maraxus_60]

By the way xXHUSHXx Ganthet also has a bunch of powers and the Quentessence TA that my version of Firelord doesn't have or need Hence bringing down the point cost

And Spiderman9797 whats so better about batjesters than mine?
when mine he gets hit becomes a powerhouse (just like in the comics)

[batjester]

By the way xXHUSHXx Ganthet also has a bunch of powers and the Quentessence TA that my version of Firelord doesn't have or need Hence bringing down the point cost

And Spiderman9797 whats so better about batjesters than mine?
when mine he gets hit becomes a powerhouse (just like in the comics)


I don't think that Firelord is really a get hit - get better kind of figure. To me he should be steady all the way through. The only reason I gave him the damage reducers in the middle is because I view him as a range attacker and he should be able to stay out of base contact for awhile, but once he's in the thick of it he needs the protection from close combat.

[xXHushXx]

By the way xXHUSHXx Ganthet also has a bunch of powers and the Quentessence TA that my version of Firelord doesn't have or need Hence bringing down the point cost

Your new one is more manageable. Though I personally still think his damage potential is too high, it's better than before.

I don't think that Firelord is really a get hit - get better kind of figure. To me he should be steady all the way through. The only reason I gave him the damage reducers in the middle is because I view him as a range attacker and he should be able to stay out of base contact for awhile, but once he's in the thick of it he needs the protection from close combat.

....Which is why me and Spizzie suggested Impervious.... ;)

[HollywoodGhost]

it should be noted when designing firelord that he had his ### handed to him by the NON COSMIC powered spiderman. Additionally didnt someother character whoop on him when they got some new powers? I thought the running joke with firelord was that he was used as a whipping boy to show how powerful other characters he fought were. Not to say that he doesnt pack quite the punch but that he does have a cubic zerconium jaw.

[spiderman9797]

maraxus_60, Firelord doesn't get better if he gets hit. He isn't Blastaar, Black King, or the Hulk. He actually just either dodges the hit, uses a forcefield of fire, or gets hit and hits back. This is why batjester's new dial is superior to yours (again, in my opinion). His damage is perfect, defense really, really close to perfect, his speed perfect, and his attack is very accurate. And on batjester's dial, when he gets hit (IF he does get hit, which is a plausable statement considering he has a 20 defense from range), he is still packing the heat and doing some great damage, not to mention he is doing alot of damage before he gets hit. He is consistant, but not overpowerd, which is how it should be.

[xXHushXx]

maraxus_60, Firelord doesn't get better if he gets hit. He isn't Blastaar, Black King, or the Hulk. He actually just either dodges the hit, uses a forcefield of fire, or gets hit and hits back. This is why batjester's new dial is superior to yours (again, in my opinion). His damage is perfect, defense really, really close to perfect, his speed perfect, and his attack is very accurate. And on batjester's dial, when he gets hit (IF he does get hit, which is a plausable statement considering he has a 20 defense from range), he is still packing the heat and doing some great damage, not to mention he is doing alot of damage before he gets hit. He is consistant, but not overpowerd, which is how it should be.

And I must say, a large part of that perfection was achieved by me and Spizzie's suggestions!* :cool:


*Kinda kidding, batjester.... good job yourself!

[spiderman9797]

Forrizzle. Hush, we need to do another Ill-perspective! dial. What do you wanna do?

[batjester]

Thanks guys. I give you much credit for helping me see the light :p . That's one thing I'm loving about the dials I've been putting up, lots of feedback.