View Full Version : HCR Rates The Movies #75: SUPERMAN II
So, our next film, Classic or Crud, Hit or Miss, what say you ALL?
Our next film open for discussion, and ultimately an Overall RATING by you all:
SUPERMAN II
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Let the discussions flow. Likes, dislikes, classic film or overhyped trash, and DONT FORGET to place an Overall Rating when youre done.
Its easy, just give a Rating from 1 (Jaws 4:The Revenge) to 10 (Jaws), and thats it. Course I'd love to have you all give reasons as to why you feel it deserves this Overall Rating, and more than encourage discussions with us all about them.
So, what say you all?
Next Film: ??????
Gargantua
09/03/2006, 18:59
This is what a superhero movie should be. Some great hero on villain action. Some nice character development with the whole Superman giving up his powers so he can be with Lois and then having to decide to take them back to stop Zod. And speaking of Zod, "Kneel before Zod." Perfect delivery. One of those sequels that actually improves on the original, good as the first was.
8.75 of 10.
Fantastic!
I agree this is an amazing sequel.
I can watch this one multiple times.
9.5 because of the fight scenes, Lois' cynicism, and that scene at the end where he returns the cupola to the White House.
Well, Im one of those people who likes the original Superman more than even this excellent sequel (personally I consider Superman The Movie to be the best superhero film ever), but that doesn’t mean that Superman II isn’t anything special. A truly enjoyable sequel that is nearly everything the original was, with a great returning cast, some worthy new villains, and a cool overall story. General Zod and crew made for a perfect evil physical match against the Man of Steel, and Luthor returning to throw his genius into the mix was lots of fun to watch as well. Not to mention a cool, climactic, epic battle, with loads of build up to during the entire movie (who didn’t cheer when Superman FINALLY confronted the villains at the end) and a cool final defeat of the criminals as well to cap it all off.
I didn’t love the new Kryptonian powers in the final battle (don’t they have enough without having to invent new ones?), the slightly lesser looking effects from the first one, the unoriginal music score (95% of it was exact note for note music from the first one) and the fact that Margot Kidder visibly changed the way she looked (as this was filmed during 2 different time periods) throughout the film, but all in all it was a lot of fun and a very enjoyable superhero film and sequel to what I consider a Classic.
Superman II – 8.50 / 10
CURRENT HCR MEMBER RATING:
SUPERMAN II - 8.92
(3 members rating)
OK, I can accept so few of us remember Jaws 2, but Superman II up for several days and only 3 ratings??? For shame HCR, for shame. :p
CURRENT HCR MEMBER RATING:
SUPERMAN II - 9.19 / 10
(4 members rating)
For the heck of it, heres the original Supermans rating:
SUPERMAN THE MOVIE - 8.87 / 10
(15 members rating)
the itsy bit
09/07/2006, 06:41
great sequel and some awesome enemies for Superman (eventhough they weren't so smart..).
9/10
A fun movie, but a bad movie. It is hardly fair to criticize the (lack of) cinematic merits, given how the film was put together...but it earns a 6/10 (2.5 stars).
Rokk_Krinn
09/08/2006, 11:15
I didn’t love the new Kryptonian powers in the final battle (don’t they have enough without having to invent new ones?),
See, I never took those to be new powers (except for the cellaphane S-shield which I just justify as one of the weapons he kept sitting around in the Fortress of Solitude a'la Silver-Age Superman). The powers that seemed unfamiliar to us were, in my eyes at least, just either creative usage of current powers or the way they might appear at the heighth of a tough battle. For example, the multiple images or teleportating around I always thought was just a portrayal of super-speed, where he was moving either so fast he was leaving afterimages (and was experienced enough by this point to be able to do it to fool the inexperienced Zone villains) and the teleportating was just him moving so fast we didn't see him moving in-between. Stuff like that.
See, I never took those to be new powers (except for the cellaphane S-shield which I just justify as one of the weapons he kept sitting around in the Fortress of Solitude a'la Silver-Age Superman). The powers that seemed unfamiliar to us were, in my eyes at least, just either creative usage of current powers or the way they might appear at the heighth of a tough battle. For example, the multiple images or teleportating around I always thought was just a portrayal of super-speed, where he was moving either so fast he was leaving afterimages (and was experienced enough by this point to be able to do it to fool the inexperienced Zone villains) and the teleportating was just him moving so fast we didn't see him moving in-between. Stuff like that.
Id have to respectfully disagree with you on the super speed/teleporting thing, as Superman appeared in 4 different places at the same time, for extended periods of time. I think it was more illusion casting than actual teleporting, personally. And the levitation/destructive lasers that Zod and crew made? Eh, it didnt take much of this overall movie away from me there, I did give this film a very good score in the end, though I didnt love the new powers given to Superman and Co, especially when they have so many powers as is.
Speaking of rating, you going to give this one a rating, RK?
St-Dumas
09/08/2006, 16:22
Classic comic book movie full of bad special effects and an obnoxious script.
8/10
(Kneel before Zod!)
Rokk_Krinn
09/08/2006, 16:53
Id have to respectfully disagree with you on the super speed/teleporting thing, as Superman appeared in 4 different places at the same time, for extended periods of time.
You mean like the Flash does all the time? :) Those Pre-Crisis super-speedsters could put on sports exhibitions where the opponent was him/herself.
Like you, I actually prefer the first Superman movie (and tie "Superman Returns" with it - yeah, I'm that "one in a billion" nutcase) but this is far from a bad movie. Some things may not have been exactly as I pictured them but as Elliot S. Maggin once said when reviewing the movie, "Everyone has a different view of Superman. This one wasn't mine but that doesn't make it less legitimate and one of the wonders of such an iconic figure is to see how his story grows with different re-tellings" (Not unlike the way Thor in true mythology is a bumbling oaf but Stan Lee gets his hands on the guy and fanboys go nuts. :) ). Besides, even as a kid I could justify the "discrepencies" so as an adult it bothers me even less. ;)
Forgetting the powers and such, it's still a solid movie. You get great character development (I've never understood how people can say Superman is lacking in personality, especially when you see him in movies like this one) and run the full range of emotions. Special effects were excellent for their time. You were actually left wondering how Superman would win (you knew he had to win but how was he going to pull it off - and it was great to see them do it in a way beyond "Rocky comes back with a fighting heart and manages to put down three guys that just pulped him earlier"). Besides, even if it's not a cinematic masterpiece of say, "Godfather" proportions you still have to take into consideration how the movie left you feeling and y'know what? It left me pretty darn jazzed as a kid and even in re-tellings (c'mon, who doesn't love the foreshadowing in the extended version of "Superman I" where we see Zod threaten Jor-El by swearing the progeny will one day kneel before the General? :) ).
Heck, even my girlfriend loves these movies and she hates all this "nerdy superhero nonsense" I'm into. :)
Rating: 9.75
Wow, thats some score, lets see if that puts Superman II overall total higher than its original, Superman The Movie (as it did have a nice lead, though a few of the more recent ones dropped it down a bit)
Superman: The Movie - 8.87 (15 members)
Superman II - 8.69 (8 members)
And RK, like you, I loved Superman Returns as well. :)
Frontman
11/20/2006, 23:54
just a bit of 411 on Superman II.
Richard Donner, who was hired to direct both I and II, was fired by the Salkinds halfway through production on II. They also didn't bring back John Williams to score the film (which is very evident. While the music is the same, it has none of the "soul" or power of the first film.)
HOWEVER, due to Donner having such a great relationship with Bryan Singer as well as Warner Brothers, he was given access to all the stock footage and unused work that he originally did, and next Tuesday "Superman II, the ACTUAL directors cut" will be released. From what I understand, he even went as far as to use footage from screentests of Chris Reeve and Margot Kidder to get all the shots he originally wanted for the film.
I can't wait, as I always loved both films, but again; once I learned how films were made, I could easily point out which scenes were filmed by Donner, and which were done by his replacement.
Front
P.S. For this film, I give it a 7.
Darth Sabre
11/21/2006, 02:57
This is the film that made me a Superman fan for life, and to this day still stays in my upper echelon of movies. I don't think it's as good as 1989's Batman (my all-time favorite superhero flick), but it's second.
9.0
lensnart
12/01/2006, 15:12
It's the best movie director by Richard Donner but that is saying very little indeed. The movie almost overcomes its director mostly due to Terence Stamp.
7 out of 10
Frontman
12/01/2006, 18:23
It's the best movie director by Richard Donner but that is saying very little indeed. The movie almost overcomes its director mostly due to Terence Stamp.
7 out of 10
Once again, the film currently being reviewed here is NOT the one directed by Richard Donner. Donner directed about half of the footage used, then the Saalkinds brought in another director.
theanalogkid
12/01/2006, 19:13
Has anyone gotten the directers cut? I usually just rent but I want to know if I should add it to my Christmas list.
As for this movie, 9.5 out of 10. Lex Luthur, King of Australia!
charlesx
12/01/2006, 19:48
Has anyone gotten the directers cut? I usually just rent but I want to know if I should add it to my Christmas list.
As for this movie, 9.5 out of 10. Lex Luthur, King of Australia!
Dude, add it to your Christmas list. I bought it the day that it came out. The Donner Cut presents the movie as it was intended to be originally filmed. The best part about it - rather than seeing Lara (Superman's mom) in the Fortress of Solitude, we are treated to about 15 minutes of restored Marlon Brando footage that never saw the light of day before. The producers cut out all of the Brando scenes because they didn't want to pay him to appear in the sequel.
Before seeing the Donner Cut of Superman II, I'd have gone with a lower score. I loved the movie as a kid, but was disappointed with it as an adult. Now that I have seen the "restored" version, it's back to being one of my favorite movies of all time.
I give it a 9 out of 10. (BTW, I like Superman Returns as well, but nothing is better than seeing Christopher Reeve with the big red S on his chest.)
Wyldstaar
12/02/2006, 18:25
This (http://www.pvponline.com/article/3005/wed-nov-29) you gotta see.
Frontman
12/02/2006, 19:42
This (http://www.pvponline.com/article/3005/wed-nov-29) you gotta see.
I wish I could erase reading that with a Superkiss. God, Scott Kurtz (and all references to said el' tubbo) should be banned, BANNED I SAY, from this site!!
My eyes!!!!
Front
Darth Sabre
12/02/2006, 21:15
Has anyone gotten the directers cut? I usually just rent but I want to know if I should add it to my Christmas list.
As for this movie, 9.5 out of 10. Lex Luthur, King of Australia!
It is worth seeing if you are a Superman fan and liked Lester's theatrical version. However, you have to take into account that the scenes were filmed in 1978, and that it was pieced together with some of the stuff we've seen in the Lester version, some of the footage that Donner had already completed, some screen tests, and some stand-ins. They removed some of the campiness of Lester's version, and the villains are presented more ruthless (none of this Non ripping the lights of the cop car, or trying in earnst to use his heat vision on a fried snake stuff). It also bridges the gap between Singer's Superman Returns to Donner's Superman, to make it a fairly continous trilogy. It is not, however, without its flaws. The editing is choppy, and the fight with the villians in Metropolis is a little truncated, and was better presented in Lester's version.
I'd give Donner's cut a 9.5.
Has anyone listened to the Donner Commentary track (if any) on the new DVD? I'm mostly curious what he has to say...I had read an interview with him circa the summer about his visit to the set of Superman Returns...and how he was surprised to find the screenwriters in a trailer watching his movie!
Darth Sabre
12/03/2006, 16:11
Has anyone listened to the Donner Commentary track (if any) on the new DVD? I'm mostly curious what he has to say...I had read an interview with him circa the summer about his visit to the set of Superman Returns...and how he was surprised to find the screenwriters in a trailer watching his movie!
He introduces the movie, but really only praises the fact that the fans are what made it possible. His only real statements regarding the events that led to his being dismissed, are something to the effect of:
"the producers decided to bring in another director for whatever reason"
and
"the other director, who's name I forget, on purpose"
lensnart
12/05/2006, 17:07
A-ha I thought it was weird that Donner made something that was this good, it makes more sense that I liked it now that I know that Donner didn't really do it. I can only imagine how he ruined it in the recut.
Frontman
12/05/2006, 20:36
A-ha I thought it was weird that Donner made something that was this good, it makes more sense that I liked it now that I know that Donner didn't really do it. I can only imagine how he ruined it in the recut.
Um....sure....another party heard from.
Anyways, back to intelligent discussion.
Front
iameleveneight
10/01/2007, 16:50
Original cut 8/10
Conner cut 8.5/10 (Extra .5 for the scene where Lois tricks Superman into revealing his identity. CLASSIC.
I grew up on Superman movies. Yeah Superman 2 is not that great of a movie, but its solid superhero fare, and I still enjoy watching it to this day.
The Donner Cut is very interesting due to the fact its a one of a kind thing really. Its neat to see the differences between the two movies and I think they run together a lot better than the released versions although the ending of the Donner Cut with the Fortress of Solitude is not so good. As far as the rest of the ending? Well that comes from them working with what they have so I'll let that slide.
CarlosMucha
11/20/2009, 03:15
Id have to respectfully disagree with you on the super speed/teleporting thing, as Superman appeared in 4 different places at the same time, for extended periods of time. I think it was more illusion casting than actual teleporting, personally. And the levitation/destructive lasers that Zod and crew made? Eh, it didnt take much of this overall movie away from me there, I did give this film a very good score in the end, though I didnt love the new powers given to Superman and Co, especially when they have so many powers as is.
Speaking of rating, you going to give this one a rating, RK?
all this powers were taked out of the movie in the 2006 Donner cut.
CarlosMucha
11/20/2009, 03:21
After watch the Donner cut and remember the old classic one I CAN'T decide.
Both movies have things I LOVE and things I don't like a lot, the MAJOR thing I don't like about the Donner cut is the ending, copy of the first one. I really want something new, even if it's the "forget" kiss.
In any case this is my review:
I can't decide about the first scene. In the Donner cut between Lois and Clark in the Planet with Lois trying to undercover Clark/Superman. OR the regular version in Paris. Both are good.
The "confession" of Clark as Superman scene... I LIKE the Lester version. Seems more Human for Superman trying to admit it even without want it. The Donner version with Lois and her gun feels colder.
I would really like a version without the silly parts of the Lester version (Like the gags of the civilians in the battle, or the "Non is dumb" gags) BUT with the Jor-El parts. The Jor-El parts were Awesome and make the movie feel like NEW for Me.
BUT the Donner cut is not perfect. I don't like the ending with the same "making time turning back" ending than the first one. The "forget Kiss power" may be silly but at least it's a new ending different than the first movie.
Another Mistake in the Donner cut is that Clark want to lost his powers AFTER make love to Lois. What it's the point then? why he "REALLY need" to leave his powers if he can "be" with Lois without do that? is more logic if -because of his powers- He CAN’T make love to a human woman, and he NEED to lose his powers for that, right? (In the Lester version Superman get rid of his powers BEFORE make love to Lois, and I considere this more logic for the plot).
The final scene of Superman Donner cut destroying the footless feels not good. Why do that? I know he will not longer talk with his father (he give away that for have his powers back) but still the Fortress can be useful for him. AND if he did that to make sure the criminals are eliminate, well, that would be VERY cold coming from him, why not just give the criminal without powers to the authorities?
My Version:
-So, in" My" Perfect version Superman 2 Have the beginning of the Lester version with the Criminals breaking in, AND the Donner cut with Jor-El punishing the Criminals on Kypton.
-The Donner cut of Superman and the Rocket making the criminals break free (that rocket looks strongest than the Pasis Terrorist' bomb version but I would don't mind the Paris bomb actually)
-The Lester cut in Paris AND the Donner Cut of Lois and Clark in the Daily Planet.
-The Lester cut of Clark and Lois in the falls, Lois once again trying to prove Clark is Superman, and finally the Clark "confession" of because of no fire wound on his hand (and NOT the Donner cut with the Gun).
Then the Donner cut with Jor El and Clark becoming asking to and becoming human to make love and live with Lois. (could be perfect if some Lara parts can come in too in some way).
The criminals with the President is faster and greater in the regular Lester version (and the monument damage parts it's great too in the Regular Lester version).
Regular/Lester special effects but without Lester gags. and Jor El Donner cut in his final meet with Clark.
Superman carrying Luthor back to the prison AND a extra scene (Special effects? double bodies?) carrying the criminals to the same or other prison too.
And in the end, the Regular Lester ending with the "silly" (but classic) "forget" Kiss. and Superman helping to rebuild the damage and talking with the President (Instead of the Donner tuning back in time ending).
Superman The Movie: 10 of 10. Superman 2: 9 of 10. (MY cut version would be 9.5 :p)
:)
Decent enough film. I t has it's goofy moments but nothing too bad.
7/10
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