Where did I go wrong?

[del_burton]

I played a friendly game at the weekend where my team was totally destroyed (twice) by my opponent. The teams were:

Mine:
R Cable + Nanobots
E Spidey (Sinister) with Forcefield
V Cyclops (Danger Room)
U Scarlet Spider (Sinsiter)

Friends:
V Cyclops (Danger Room)
V Kraven (Sinister)
U Arkon (Sinister)
E Cable

My friend basically used Outwit to outwit all my damage reducers or special attacks like ranged/close combat expert or annoyingly to outwit my outwit when I got it, while using Arkon to perplex up damage to 4 or 5 from an attack. Kraven was impossible to hit because of his stealth and both Arkon and Kraven had fairly high defense values.

The only thing that went my way was I threw 5 + 6 for Super Senses after 2 double 6's.

So my question is using the teams above, was there any way I could have won? Are there any tactics that would help in overcoming being outwitted pretty much during every turn?

[Thunderwebs]

First off, replace the Force Field on Spidey w/Protected and Vault (if I did my math right, you had one point left over). This keeps you safe on that first (non-Super Senses) click, and allows you to reposition for Spidey's ENTIRE dial. (Personally, I'd put nanobots on him instead of Cable. Leap/Climb means he can always get away to an object.) Your Cable has better mobility than his, use the higher move+phasing to get the jump on him. The key is Spidey's transporter ability; you have a taxi, he doesn't. Either go after Cable first, which will get him off his Running Shot/Outwit clicks, or go after Kraven to get him off his Stealth/Outwit clicks. Remember to bring either Cyclops or Scarlet Spider with you so that the target has more than one character to worry about, and position them so that they are able to attack from range. Another thing, don't worry too much about pushing as your entire team has X-Men TA. Depending on the map, Spidey's Barrier could be very useful against that team. Hope this helps, good luck next time! ;)

[WolvieFan9]

You've only got six posts here (welcome to the Realms!) and I don't know your experience level at the game, so I'll point some things out.

1) Arkon doesn't have Perplex. He has Leadership and Ranged Combat Expert. The gray squares can sometimes look brownish, but his first two clicks have Leadership. Now, Vet KRAVEN has Perplex, but only two clicks of it.

2) Your opponent only had two Outwitters. This should have resulted in only two powers Outwitted per turn... which is annoying, yes, but not overwhelming.

3) If the Outwit was getting to you, then you should have gone after those two characters first -- your opponent only had three clicks of Outwit, and on those three clicks, Toughness for those characters. Each of your figures was capable of dishing out three clicks of damage on the starting click, other than Scarlet Spider, who has two damage. Two good hits from the right figures on your team could have eliminated the Outwit threat. (I wonder if your opponent was Outwitting more than one power a turn... this is a common new player mistake. If you're not new players, then I apologize.)

4) You had R Cable with Phasing, so he should have tried to maneuver toward your opponent while keeping blocking terrain between him and your opponent's figures, until he uses Phasing to put himself into position to attack. Spidey and Scarlet Spidey can do a limited amount of that themselves with Leap/Climb, but not as effectively as Phasing.

5) To hit Kraven, since he's Stealthed and your figures did not have any Stealth-busting capability, you're going to have to get into close combat. Cable would be good for that, as he has Phasing as discussed, 10 Attack with 3 Damage, and Outwit -- so he can immediately Outwit something on Kraven after he hits him in close combat and knocks him off Stealth. E Spidey, carrying Cyclops, would also be a potent combo... Spidey conducts a Transporter close combat attack against Kraven while carrying Cyclops. Spidey's chance of hitting isn't that good, since he will be attacking a 17 Defense with a 7 Attack, but he's also depositing Cyclops next to Kraven to close combat attack him next round. I'd make the transporter attack just hoping for a good roll. (If the movement was a push for Spider-Man, so much the better... he goes to a 10 Attack and gets Super-Senses on his second click, which will be much better to fight with... yes, he'll have to survive next to Kraven while he clears, but Cyclops will keep Kraven busy.) OR I'd have carried Scarlet Spider up next to Kraven... he only has a 9 attack and 2 damage, but he has a 17 Defense with Super Senses, so he would have had a decent chance to survive long enough to hit Kraven for 2 damage and get him off his Stealth click, opening him up for getting him smacked by ranged combat attacks. AND Scarlet Spider keeps his 9 attack for four clicks, so he's got a decent chance of hitting. Again, it only takes a hit with 3 damage to get Kraven off Outwit -- then immediately have another figure hit him again for at least 1 damage to get him off Perplex. Now Kraven, without a capability to heal, is MUCH more manageable.

6) I would personally have been most concerned about Arkon on your opponent's team -- I used him in the Sinister pre-release and he was fantastic. That starting click, especially in sealed, was great with four damage and 18 Defense, and a push just put him on a 10 Attack and Running Shot! Arkon is tough to take down -- you just have to keep beating on him until he's KO'd.

7) Were you using Spider-Man's Barrier power? Had you maneuvered your team into a tight spot (in a corridor inside a building, perhaps) you could have used Spider-Man to put up a Barrier in front of your figures, preventing them from being Outwitted or attacked.

8) Map choice could have helped you a lot too. What map were you playing on? An inside map could have worked to your advantage -- lots of corners to hide behind until you are in place to attack. Especially when three of your four figures had L/C or Phasing, and the last one (Cyclops) can be carried by Spider-Man.

9) I don't know what cards you have, but Force Field on Spidey may not be the best. He's only eligible for it on his first click and his fifth and sixth clicks, which he may not even land on if he's getting shot up at that point. You might be able to more wisely use those 10 points -- like, bring a bystander token along with Spider-Man, which he can place in front of himself to block Line Of Fire and keep himself from getting Outwitted.

10) I agree with Thunderwebs -- Nanobots would have been better on Spidey (or Scarlet Spider) as they can use Leap/Climb to get away from your opponents and get to an object to eat it. On the two clicks that Cable can get away -- his Phasing clicks -- he does three damage and is not eligible to use Nanobots. So put your Nanobots on someone who can get away... namely, a Spider-Man.

11) Were you using your X-Men TA? It's the only TA you had on your team for your two Spider figures to copy, so to get the most out of them, you need to use that TA. If you had Nanobots on Spider-Man, he could havew been very effective for you, using Leap/Climb to get into position next to a wounded character, using the X-Men TA to give them a click, then maneuvering away to find an object to heal himself of the damage (and the whole time he's moving around, he can carry someone with him and use his Transporter attack to keep fighting). The X-Men TA is tough to use, but can be effective to keep figures on one certain click... you just need to decide which clicks to stay on. For Cyclops, it's absolutely his first one, since he drops quickly down after that. For Cable, it might be an Outwit click or his Running Shot click, depending on which is more important at the time.

12) All in all, with your four figures and your opponent's four figures, I think you had a decent (at least even) chance of winning. Perhaps some of these comments can help!

[del_burton]

Thanks for the help.

I am fairly new to the game, and only get the chance to play about once a month because I don't know anyone in my town that also plays, while my friend started playing at about the same time as me, but they have 2 locations near to where they live that do Heroclix events, so they play once or twice a week! :(

There is some great advice in there and I'll have a proper read and try and take it in when I get home from work.

On both our games, Cable was the sole focus of the attack from the start and was taken out in my friends first turn, so I never actually got to use him to find out how good/bad he was. I'll have to remember to use barrier from Exp Spidey next time.

My friend was definitely using Perplex from Arkon. I'll have to check the dial for that when I get home.

Thanks for the help so far :)

[TheProphecy212]

Rep for Wolvie Fan for that long post.

[del_burton]

Rep for Wolvie Fan for that long post.

Too right. :)

[Thunderwebs]

10) I agree with Thunderwebs -- Nanobots would have been better on Spidey (or Scarlet Spider) as they can use Leap/Climb to get away from your opponents and get to an object to eat it. On the two clicks that Cable can get away -- his Phasing clicks -- he does three damage and is not eligible to use Nanobots. So put your Nanobots on someone who can get away... namely, a Spider-Man.
Rep for that! :p

[nkb]

Your Cable has better mobility than his, use the higher move+phasing to get the jump on him.

:lol: Del has been a bit clever with the pronouns so no-one knows he was beaten by a girl ;)

I genuinely thought Arkon had perplex (hence using it pretty much every go, or at least when I remembered LOL) although having checked the Wizkids site it IS mastermind -- will have to keep a closer eye on my dial.

To be fair, I did have a couple of flukey shots in there - although it was a pretty good drubbing even without the perplex faux pas (sorry about that Del).

I think I'm going to have to start looking closer at the cards though - I've not really used any battlefield conditions or feat cards (mainly cause I don't have many) but I'm coming to realise that it can make a huge difference...

[Drunky]

although having checked the Wizkids site it IS mastermind -- will have to keep a closer eye on my dial.

Don't you mean Leadership?

[del_burton]

:lol: Del has been a bit clever with the pronouns so no-one knows he was beaten by a girl ;)

I genuinely thought Arkon had perplex (hence using it pretty much every go, or at least when I remembered LOL) although having checked the Wizkids site it IS mastermind -- will have to keep a closer eye on my dial.

To be fair, I did have a couple of flukey shots in there - although it was a pretty good drubbing even without the perplex faux pas (sorry about that Del).

I think I'm going to have to start looking closer at the cards though - I've not really used any battlefield conditions or feat cards (mainly cause I don't have many) but I'm coming to realise that it can make a huge difference...

You mean leadership right?

You wonder why the rest of us watch you like a hawk :P :P

[nkb]

You mean leadership right?

You wonder why the rest of us watch you like a hawk :P :P

I *did* mean leadership... Plus leadership is probably more help...

And shush. I've had a long and bad day as you well know :P