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View Full Version : The Trophy Room The 20 Best LE's of All Time (...so far)!


ol_Dut
01/04/2007, 14:23
http://www.hcrealms.com/gallery/data/500/mcnivencivilwar-.jpg

Not simply content to consider The 10 Best LE’s of 2006, today we embark on an even more arduous odyssey. We’ll go back in time to the inception of the game of HeroClix and look for the giants among men, the men among boys, the Ultimate Nullifier among water pistols. In short, our objective is nothing short of The 20 Best LE’s of All Time (…so far) - Part One! Click “Read More” to dive in!

ol_Dut
01/04/2007, 14:31
Before we begin, a few ground rules, just so that we’re all on the same page.
1 – This list only considers pieces that have been released. Figures whose dials are known but that are not in circulation will not be ranked, because nothing about any piece can be verified until the piece can be examined first-hand. Or to put it another way, sometimes the figure gallery is wrong.
2 – Any figure designated as a LE will be considered an LE regardless of its ring color.
3 – The cost or rarity of an LE does not directly relate to its “goodness”.
4 – I have attempted to be as objective as possible, but it is nonetheless subjective.

With the fine print out of the way, let’s move on to those things no “Best of…” list could ever start without. So without further adieu, here are:

The 20 Best LE’s of All Time (…so far) – Honorable Mentions!

Carter Hall is the best Hawkman out there, hands down. 54 points buys Charge with three damage, and the JSA team ability to help bolster his meager and naked 15 defense. A taxi with teeth, Carter has eight long clicks of life and almost a full three-quarters of them are pretty good. After Leadership comes his Close Combat Expert so that he can continue to dole out respectable damage late into his dial. He’s cheap and everywhere, kinda like Paris Hilton, so there’s no reason not to have one.

Arthur Curry was one of the game’s earliest big money pieces, going for as much as $100 once upon a time. With Super Strength, an 11 attack, and three damage mixed with Willpower, it’s easy to see why. Rarity aside, he was a great piece, then and now. Today, that same $100 would get you about 20 or so Arthurs, not that you’d need them. One will do.

Hulk from the Playstation Magazine mail-away offer was another great early LE that has held up rather well. At 96 points, he can fit on most any team and he Hulks up rather quickly. Damage, attack, and defensive values climb all the way down his dial, and though he is devoid of Charge, he remains extremely playable, even if his sculpt is reminiscent of a trip to Taco Bell gone horribly, horribly wrong.

It’s been awhile since we’ve had LE’s of generics, and Wade Cole was one of the last good ones. This Hellfire Guard traded in most of his Energy Explosion for a full dial of Ranged Combat Expert and added a couple clicks of Stealth for good measure. His first two clicks are virtually identical, making him pushable and turning this little 32 point guy into a piece that can control his corner of the board.

Witchblade was done best, from both a sculpt and dial perspective in her LE incarnation. Plugging Energy Shield/Deflection into her top two clicks keeps this 63 point wonder safe while she moves into position, and the translucent flames make her look terrific. Top-loaded Charge and a dial full of Blades will enable her hurt anything she hits, and Regeneration at the bottom will help her to kick out the jams all over again if she tastes too much pain.

Captain Marvel is always a bridesmaid, never a bride. Very mobile with either Charge or Hypersonic down most of her dial, and much more dangerous with five upfront clicks of Super Strength, the good Captain can administer a beat down. The red costume is a nice touch, as well. It’s very eye-catching and serves to highlight the fact that this is the version of Mary Marvel to play.

With the Honorable Mentions out of the way, it’s time to get down to the pieces that matter most:

The 20 Best LE’s of All Time (…so far)!
This part of the series will deal with numbers 20 – 11, so let’s get started.

#20 – Little Sure Shot (Cosmic Justice – based on Easy Company Soldier, 15 points, TA = PD) – Little Sure Shot seems rather an egotistical name for a figure whose best attack is a nine (9). Little Average Shot may have been more fitting, but make no mistake this little fella has a big 10 range and does two damage on his first click. Much better than a couple of pogs, he’s a great way to spend a few extra points to pack in a bit more support for a very economical price. Granted one good hit will either KO him or render him useless, but judicious positioning should keep him effectively sniping away from a safe distance, moving the wounded a click or two closer to KO with every shot.

#19 – Doctor Doom (Clobberin Time – Doombot, 68 points, Minions of Doom) – At almost half the cost of Rookie Dr. Doom, this LE packs quite a punch. A 10 attack, Mastermind, and three (3) damage with Perplex make for an astonishing first click. With a bit of fodder by his side he can blast away without fear, pawning any damage he may take onto his minions. When he absolutely has to hurt a lot of people, or just one guy really badly, send the fodder away for a moment and unleash the fury of his Pulse Wave! Although he’s a bit fragile and while his dial may be short, he’s a hard hitter with Incapacitate, Leadership and Outwit to provide further utility down his dial. He’s mean, he’s versatile, he’s Doom!

#18 – Norman Osborn (Fantastic Forces – Green Goblin, 99 points, no TA) – Little things can make a huge difference and Norman certainly proves this rule. Minor alterations were made to the Vet, but in so doing his cost was reduced by 20 points, Willpower jumped to his first click, he got an 11 attack, four damage, and in the process he became the definitive Green Goblin. The REV can hit the trash because after fielding the force of nature that is Norman Osborn they’ll never see the light of day. Playing him is so elegantly simple. Running Shot for four damage. Repeat to wreck an opponent. Clear. Do it all over again. Once he takes damage, his dual target Incap and Outwit will almost make your foe wish they left him on his first click.

#17 – Jessica Drew (Armor Wars – Spider-Woman, 65 points, Hydra) – While she’s moving into position, she can augment the attack values of fellow Hydra agents or Wildcards. Once she’s ready to strike, a solid nine attack with Charge and Super Strength lets her deliver a beating. Her 19 defense in close combat thanks to Combat Reflexes should keep her safe from reprisal from figures over twice her point cost provided she lands the first blow, and maybe even if she doesn’t. Ranged Combat Expert, Close Combat Expert and Incap are all in her bag of tricks, leading up to that last click of Pulse Wave. All this is enough to have even the staunchest, most steadfast Avengers fan shouting a hearty, “Hail Hydra!”

#16 – Morlock Leader (Ultimates – Callisto, 47 Points, Morlocks) tied with The Atom (Cosmic Justice – No REV, 50 points, JLA) – Here is another piece that renders her REV moot. Since the TA provides a bonus for close combat attacks, why bother with an REV that tries to be a meek ranged piece? Better to take the Leader here, whose great 10 attack and Flurry with Blades should enable her to make quick work of many figures. And while the TA offers her a nice, though perhaps unnecessary boost to her attack values early on, it is that TA that will keep her viable when her attack falters to an eight (8). She is an outstanding tagalong for a flying Charger, and at 47 points she’ll give much better than her modest point cost would indicate.

The Atom is another piece that wants to jump out to the front lines. His Stealth mixed with an insane 20 defense makes him a perfect choice to lead the team into battle. His Perplex turns his low damage into an average two (2) when it’s his turn to swing away with his nine (9) attack, and helps his team when he doesn’t need himself. Once The Atom takes a hit or two, Outwit springs up to enable him to continue to contribute after his Perplex and combat abilities have faded. The advent of the Brilliant Tactician feat makes him an invaluable member of any JLA team, empowering him to affect every JLA ally he can see. Supporting from the front lines, The Atom continues to shine.

#15 – Cain Marko (Fantastic Forces – Juggernaut, 155 points, no TA) – “Nothing can stop the Juggernaut” is the popular refrain seen in many a comics panel that Juggernaut graces. Finally, here is a Juggy that lives up to that statement. Again a little tinkering makes a huge difference, and by shedding the X-Men TA, Cain buys some huge attacks, starting with a 12, and an additional click of Impervious. Breaking up his Charge clicks to early and mid-dial further enhance his mobility and thus his playability. In the realm of grounded bricks, there aren’t any better than Cain Marko.

#14 – Clint Barton (Ultimates – Hawkeye, 75 points, Ultimates) – Clint sacrifices Hawkeye’s top-loaded RCE in favor of mobility and decent opening damage (a three). But it’s that Incap that shows up on clicks two through five that makes Clint something special. After pushing off his first click, Clint can dance around the board freezing things up for the opposition by triple Incapping here, there and everywhere. This leaves his team with an outstanding action advantage or forces a whole lot of pushing, resulting in giving up a lot of free clicks. Either way Clint wins. Wildcards will love copying his TA, too, giving them the ability to see through stealth and ignore hindering terrain.

#13 – Kraven the Spider (Sinister – Kraven, 39 points, no TA) – He may have funny little shoes and a crossbow with no range, but KTS is the tie up piece of tie up pieces. Cheap on points and long on dial, he’s much more trouble than he’s worth. Leap/Climb will get him to any part of the map he needs to gum up, and his 19 defense thanks to CR should keep safe from most flying or grounded bricks. While he may be a bit delicate with just two clicks of damage reducers to his name, for 39 points he’s relatively disposable. KTS knows his role, which is, quite simply, to find some big bad boy to annoy while his allied big guns knock the target off the map from range. It’s a role at which he is virtually unrivaled.

#12 – Justice is Served! (Ultimates – Scourge, 31 points, no TA) tied with Elektra Natchios (Critical Mass – Elektra, 36 points, no TA) – Justice is Served! is a clever change-up of the Scourge REV. Instead of the stealthy ranged mayhem for which the REV is known, JIS! likes to do his work up close and personal. Thanks to an 11 attack and three damage with Exploit Weakness, JIS! is going to make a sticky mess out of any target. While he is plagued by a low defense, Super Senses will keep him relatively safe until Stealth takes over. EW on each and every click makes him dangerous until he’s KO’d.

For a nearly identical point cost, Elektra Natchios has a lot of what makes JIS! fun to play with. In her case a big 11 attack and three damage is coupled with Stealth and Willpower, affording her the ability to move safely into position, move up on a victim, and then strike the next turn. The mid-dial Flurry/Incap is a bit of a puzzler, but it does give her the option to Flurry those with Toughness or less and Incap those with Invulnerability or better, making her a threat to every figure on the board. Six clicks of life will let her take more than one hit, and Willpower on all but one click should let her take more shots than she receives.

#11 – Etrigan (Legacy – The Demon, 88 points, Mystic) tied with Daniel Ketch (Ultimates – Ghost Rider, 88 points, no TA) No matter how comic book accurate it is, it’s no fun to chant, “Gone, gone the form of man/Rise the demon Etrigan!” for two turns, take a click, and then finally get to the good stuff in turn three. Etrigan gets right to it without all the song and dance of his REV and he delivers a very solid grounded Charger with a viable ranged attack option. However, most of the time he’s going to see close combat duty to leverage his Charge, Super Strength and Blades/Claws/Fangs, all the while delivering feedback damage to those who dare to hurt him. Speaking in rhyme when playing Etrigan is optional but discouraged.

Danny Ketch is the flip side of the same coin. For the same price tag, his playability issue is solved inexactly the same manner – ditching the activation click. (Stop activation clicks.) Spooky isn’t it? (Stop activation clicks.) That two different LE’s of different supernatural characters from different expansions and from different companies would both be made invaluable by dropping their activation clicks and rendering both of their respective REV’s useless? (Stop activation clicks.) Danny keeps everything that makes the REV Ghost Rider great without all the Smoke Cloud. (Stop activation clicks.) Charge, big damage, big attack values and late-dial Incap combine to make a functional if not flashy piece that is truly dangerous in every stage of the game. (Stop activation clicks.) For an added bit of fun, (Stop activation clicks.) try having the transporter Ghost Rider from Fantastic Forces give Danny a ride!

So there you have it. The first wave of The 20 Best LE’s of All Time (…so far)! Thanks for reading! Next week, I’ll be back with numbers 10 through 2. Will your favorites make the grade? What surprises await? Tune in again next week and find out!

DeltaPi1049
01/04/2007, 15:03
Thanks for giving Norman Osborn some love! The piece is so much better than the Vet, and that willpower/runshot/4 DV first click is great for what you get. Plus the late dial Outwit is very helpful to get him away, because he gets hit a lot with the 16 D.

Im just hoping that next week we get the elektra LE from Xp too! That one always gave me so much trouble. I think it proved once and for all that ninjas are always going to be better than pirates!

Good job as always!

MadCap#1
01/04/2007, 15:08
Great list with some surprise choices. Though I will say you cheated by having "ties". ;)
I would like to see the rest of the list before commenting on your choices, but so far interesting.

Skarn
01/04/2007, 15:22
At our venue, rhyming when you play with Etrigan/The Demon is encouraged, as long as you don't use the same rhyme over and over.

soldiersoul13
01/04/2007, 15:23
yeah, STOP ACTIVATION CLICKS

KneelB4Zodd
01/04/2007, 15:25
I could be wrong, I think you listed the top 24... :p

skletapocket
01/04/2007, 15:44
You are wrong. Looks like Top 23. :)

Ghost_Rider
01/04/2007, 16:11
I agree with the list for the most part, although I don't think Morlock Leader should be on there. She's okay, but you rarely see anyone saying "dang, I must get my hands on that piece!"

I don't even think I've seen her used.

GroovyBoy
01/04/2007, 16:14
I thought it would be fun to compile my own Top 20 LE list before reading this, so I could compare. Alas, I came up with 25 and could not cut it down any further (and that's in addition to the 12 Honorable Mentions I had). Between that and the fact I didn't rank them, I really got an appreciation for how tough the whole process must have been for you!

Anyway, here are some comparisons between your list and mine:

1) We both had Arthur Curry as HMs, but Captain Marvel made my Top 25. I think she wreaks enough havok when played to make the cut (then again, she could be 21-25, which basically puts her in the same place on your list).

2) Lil Sure Shot, Moorlock Leader, and JIS! all made your Top 20 list, while they only made HM on mine. While I love all three pieces and have used them multiple times, I look at them as the Ed McCaffreys of HeroClix: overachievers, but not the best in the biz.

3) Jessica Drew, Clint Barton, and Kraven the Spider didn't show up anywhere on my radar. I considered Clint, but pushing a guy with few clicks and no damage reducers to get to his "sweet spot" is a losing strategy. Similarly, Mockingbird is the ultimate tie-up piece at a cheaper cost that Kraven the Rooster.

4) Hey, we agree on Doc Doom, Norman Osborne, Cain Marko, and Etrigan. 4 outta 10 ain't bad! Let's see how the Top 10 goes...

Wyldstaar
01/04/2007, 16:24
X-Plosion's Elektra LE didn't make the Top 20 or even an honorable mention?! She's one of the best pieces in the game for her points. Besides, Ninjas rule!

GroovyBoy
01/04/2007, 16:31
She might be Top 10; and yes, ninjas do indeed rule...

AZS
01/04/2007, 16:39
That was a good read! Thanks, and I look forward to 10 - 1.

St-Dumas
01/04/2007, 16:41
#15 – Cain Marko (Fantastic Forces – Juggernaut, 155 points, no TA) – “I'M THE JUGGERNAUT, #####!!” is the popular refrain seen in many a comics panel that Juggernaut graces. Finally, here is a Juggy that lives up to that statement. Again a little tinkering makes a huge difference, and by shedding the X-Men TA, Cain buys some huge attacks, starting with a 12, and an additional click of Impervious. Breaking up his Charge clicks to early and mid-dial further enhance his mobility and thus his playability. In the realm of grounded bricks, there aren’t any better than Cain Marko.

Fixed it for ya.

thepunisher27
01/04/2007, 16:45
ol you should make a group on here called "stop activation clicks"

CurBludgeon
01/04/2007, 16:58
Carter Hall is the best Hawkman out there, hands down.


Going to say this before Thawmus finds out, but the KC Hawkman is mighty, mighty fine, even if it's not an LE.

biz567
01/04/2007, 17:25
Great review! Happy to see Jessica getting there, she deserves it!

absolutvt69
01/04/2007, 17:26
Nice list and I would agree w/ most of them. I'm interested to see who makes the top 10...

samuraigrifter
01/04/2007, 17:37
Nice list. I'm glad that Cain Marko is on that list. I had a hard time taking him down once and he deserves to be on that list. Same goes for the Morlock Leader. I'm really curious as to who's in the top 10. Can't wait! :classic:

venarnage
01/04/2007, 18:09
Hmmm...this pic looks like it would make an interesting shirt.....


...like the one I have on right now!!!

richpizor
01/04/2007, 19:16
How come Little Sure Shot's 9 attack is "average" but Jessia Drew's 9 attack is "solid"? I'm not asking to be an arsehole but because i'm honestly confused.

tidge
01/04/2007, 19:31
In anticipation of the end of the list (and Groovy's list) I think I'll also try to parse a top 20 list too :) hint: I won't be including "blue ring" Superman Robot on my list ;)

I like ol_Dut's reasoning, even if I don't entirely agree. Many of the pieces are personal favorites of mine. Some of my thoughts on the candidates:

Kraven the Spider: He's too new, IMO to have earned his spot on the list. His Battle Fury also takes some of the shine from his gold ring, IMO...even though it helps keep his cost down.

Clint Barton: The Vet is soooo good (and so similar), its hard for me to consider this slightly tweaked LE as one of the "top 20". Ditto for Elektra Natchios...while this LE is a step up from the vet, the vet is only 2/3 the cost with only a slight drop in AV! Also, any figure with 0-range incapacitate is handicaped, IMO.

Many of the pieces are really excellent, but I rarely see them being used: Morlock Leader, while a terrible threat in close combat is a tough piece to make work, especially given the range-dominance of the game.

Cain Marko is a piece I rarely see used, even if he is probably the best non-flying brick in the game. Again, the fact that range dominates has hurt this piece on almost all maps.

I'm on the fence about JiS and Lil Sure Shot. The Scourge variant seems too hard to protect (hello, Sidekick!) and while LSS is among the best figures for his points, and has a handy TA to mimc...he's a one-hit-wonder.

X-Inferno
01/04/2007, 19:43
I'm really glad to see Little Sure Shot on at number 20... that's exactly where he should be! I agree with most of your choices, and it's tough to say why didn't this character make it? when the list is only half done... However, you will be hearing much moaning and whining from me if I don't see Madam Hydra in the top 10 list! :p

So far, the only figures I wouldn't put in my top 20 list, would be... Cain Marko, Etrigan, and Drew...

Cheers!

Marlow
01/04/2007, 19:50
I like that list, especially as I have almost all the figures you have listed!

clixer11
01/04/2007, 19:53
Great list, and I can't wait to see the Top 10. For those of you that haven't experienced the joy, Morlock Leader excels in 500 point games. She lurks in the background and when the opponent's heavies are engaged, she gets TK bulleted into the middle of the battlefield to Flurry Blades a fresh target. I've seen her decimate U Surfer, Ultimates Thor, etc. If she gets targetted, you're only out 47 points, your opponent had to deal six damage to KO her, and the pieces that attacked her had to come to your side of the playground.

Trust me, she's dangerous.

ol_Dut
01/04/2007, 19:56
How come Little Sure Shot's 9 attack is "average" but Jessia Drew's 9 attack is "solid"? I'm not asking to be an arsehole but because i'm honestly confused.

Because to live up to his name of Little Sure Shot, he should have an 11 or 12 attack;) . A 9 attack is solid - it gives a fair chance of hitting, but it is average. That's why I dubbed him Little Average Shot. See, when you have to explain a joke it just wrecks it:laugh: .

DoctorDoom
01/04/2007, 20:02
Nice list overall, I'm especially pleased to see that Norman and Cain are getting some well deserved love.

I only have one beef, why Morlock Leader!? I understand she has a good AV, and yes BCF is always good on the cheap, but give me a break. I've NEVER seen anyone field her, and I've seen one traded away for a Vet Lobster Johnson. That's right, a V Lobster Johnson. I just don't think that her powers and TA warrant her being in the top 20. She should get honorable mention for sure, but I doubt many would agree that she is one of the top LEs in the game.

In any event (and despite my disagreement over one figure), thanks for the in-depth list!

venarnage
01/04/2007, 20:16
I only have one beef, why Morlock Leader!? I understand she has a good AV, and yes BCF is always good on the cheap, but give me a break. I've NEVER seen anyone field her, and I've seen one traded away for a Vet Lobster Johnson. That's right, a V Lobster Johnson. I just don't think that her powers and TA warrant her being in the top 20. She should get honorable mention for sure, but I doubt many would agree that she is one of the top LEs in the game.


What? Morlock Leader? I love her! She's one of my top 5 fav. pieces in all of clix! I mean, throw some teammates up next to her, and bam, she's almost a for sure hit with her flurry bfc clix. Plus if you need the leadership, it's just an extra! Yeah, she doesnt have any defensive powers, but she's meant to get in there, and get the job done...and yes...I have done 12 clicks of damage in one turn with her....lets see Lobster Johnson do that!

clixer11
01/04/2007, 20:27
Standing offer: I have V Lobster Johnsons for any and all traders that wanted to trade me LE Morlock Leaders.

Step right up!

*cricket, cricket*

venarnage
01/04/2007, 20:31
I agree with the list for the most part, although I don't think Morlock Leader should be on there. She's okay, but you rarely see anyone saying "dang, I must get my hands on that piece!"

I don't even think I've seen her used.

I said "dang, I must get my hands on that piece!", for quite some time, until I found a friend that had her, and was getting out of clix. As stated in the previous post...this girl is AMAZING! I don't see why people don't use her more often. She's cheap, she's killer, and she's expendable....and if you don't wanna let her go THAT bad, use her with a Lockjaw to bring her back... ;)

theanalogkid
01/04/2007, 20:34
I liked the list but would Arthur on the list. I always use the" flying fish man attack" to great effect. Yes he gets trounced, but he is so cheap it is not that much of a waste for a first wave attacker.

tidge
01/04/2007, 20:37
Before we begin, a few ground rules, just so that we’re all on the same page.
2 – Any figure designated as a LE will be considered an LE regardless of its ring color.

I'm guessing this is to cover the Robot Superman mail-away...but wouldn't this "ground rule" also allow Galactus and Spectre?

zero_cochrane
01/04/2007, 20:48
I was pretty keen to get Ghost Rider in Ultimates... but within a couple of weeks of Ultimates coming out I had LE Daniel Ketch, so I've never used the REV. The LE is just so good.

These days I even have a spare!

ol_Dut
01/04/2007, 21:18
I'm guessing this is to cover the Robot Superman mail-away...but wouldn't this "ground rule" also allow Galactus and Spectre?

Actually it's just that some for some reason some pieces flagged as LE's have silver rings (Atom, Snot on a Stick Lantern, Krypto, MOS Supes, mailbox Plastic Man, etc.) and some have blue (Robo Supes), and so on, instead of consistently having that goldy-bronzy color. For the purposes of this review, I'm not putting the big guys and gals in the mix. Somehow that didn't seem right.

gambitrmp
01/04/2007, 21:37
I agree with the list for the most part, although I don't think Morlock Leader should be on there. She's okay, but you rarely see anyone saying "dang, I must get my hands on that piece!"

I don't even think I've seen her used.

I sorely misunderestimated her when my opponent TK'ed her up on me. Much better than the REV means she can go undetected if someone isn't paying attention to the LE rank.

Terman8er
01/04/2007, 21:47
#20 – Little Sure Shot
#19 – Doctor Doom
#18 – Norman Osborn
#17 – Jessica Drew
#16 – Morlock Leader tied with The Atom
#15 – Cain Marko
#14 – Clint Barton
#13 – Kraven the Spider
#12 – Justice is Served! tied with Elektra Natchios
#11 – Etrigan tied with Daniel Ketch

First off let me say, great review sir, kudos to you.

Now...while I do agree with most of your picks I just wanted to add my 2 cents.

Doom, LSS and Morlock Leader would make my personal top 10 so I won't argue with those. The rest? I can agree with those. I just question Drew and Kraven up there...perhaps I just need to play with them more.

I look forward to seeing your top 10.

My thoughts for your top 10 include:

Jane Foster
Elektra Ninja
Shazam!
Jeanne-Marie
George Tarleton
Scientist Supreme (especially with all the defend out there now)
Zatanna Zatara
Thomas Oscar Morrow
Madame Hydra
Roy Harper Jr.
Ant-Man
Clarice Ferguson
Search/Destroy Agent Alpha
Fred Myers
Sue Storm
Ghost Widow
Annihilus
Hal Jordan

Wow...a little more than 10 there huh? Oh well...good luck!

Oh if you have that Morlock Leader and Spiral and someone with Mind Control then you have a recipe to DESTORY your opponent.

Try this.

LE Morlock Leader 47 + 10 (ICWO)
U Spiral 56 + 10 (ICWO)
R Destiny 20
R Jean Grey 31
V Karma 59 + 10 (ICWO)

Total 243

That leaves plenty open to add some hurt to your team. I suggest:

R Domino 35
R Intergang Medic 20

Set up your Ladies somewhere hard for your opponent to get to then TK Karma up to MC your opponent over to your ladies. Position it so Spiral and Morlock Leader (and one or two others say Domino and Jean) will be adjacent to your target.

This way, with ICWO, your ladies will be attacking with a 13 AV, at worst, with two PC'ers to make sure the Blades roll is nice.

Keep the medic next to Sprial so she can outwit defenses for Morlock Leaders first attack. Then Spiral, when she attacks, copies the Morlock TA to attack with a 13 AV too.

At this time you will learn to LOVE the Morlock Leader. :)

venarnage
01/04/2007, 22:54
At this time you will learn to LOVE the Morlock Leader. :)


I'm glad more people are seeing the light!!!

DisturbedChild
01/05/2007, 01:44
Morlock Leader is a favorite of mine to use. she still takes a lot of people by surprise.

EmeraldKnight4
01/05/2007, 01:56
I predict Jane Foster is going to be in the top 5. If not, I am going to be shocked. Healer with willpower and a fairly nice attack for only 16 points? Oh heck yeah. Probably one of the most used figures I own, and I enjoy using her every time.

cheetor
01/05/2007, 06:18
Awesome reviews and another great read, thanks ol_Dut!

Ville
01/05/2007, 06:26
A great article, I can´t wait for the rest of it!

I applaud JIS´s inclusion on the list. This little fellow is one click that is bound to remain relevant until the end of times. I have seem him pulling off some amazing stunts, and there is probably even more yet to come.

Badgerbite
01/05/2007, 09:21
What? Morlock Leader? I love her! She's one of my top 5 fav. pieces in all of clix! I mean, throw some teammates up next to her, and bam, she's almost a for sure hit with her flurry bfc clix. Plus if you need the leadership, it's just an extra! Yeah, she doesnt have any defensive powers, but she's meant to get in there, and get the job done...and yes...I have done 12 clicks of damage in one turn with her....lets see Lobster Johnson do that!

I agree that Morlock Leader is great.
I've had her take out KC GL in a single turn, she is awesome in the right hands.
But I will not beat up on the Lobster man, I love to have this guy on my side, when he uses BRPD to copy Ultimate or Superman he see the whole board and outwit at will.
On top of that his own stealth and impervious make him one hard click to take down.
I can see why someone would make that trade (I wouldn't), he's a beast.
Morlock leader should be on the list.

Ghost_Rider
01/05/2007, 14:28
Great review. Norman Osborne is one of my favorites, along with Cain Marko!

Mr. Pilkington
01/05/2007, 15:20
Definitely a good read. As with others I'll probably discuss more after part 2 when we know who all made the grade and who got cut (probably by Morlock Leader from the sounds of the discussion).

Devon_v
01/05/2007, 16:47
Actually it's just that some for some reason some pieces flagged as LE's have silver rings (Atom, Snot on a Stick Lantern, Krypto, MOS Supes, mailbox Plastic Man, etc.) and some have blue (Robo Supes), and so on, instead of consistently having that goldy-bronzy color. For the purposes of this review, I'm not putting the big guys and gals in the mix. Somehow that didn't seem right.

Galactus is broken and banned at most venues anyway, and Dark Pheonix is a little too easy to wipe out at 600 points (MoE Sentry can do it alone with some special objects and a little luck). Not really familiar with the Jean Grey Phoenix, but the 600 point Spectre is a monster, and maybe would have warranted an honorable mention. I suppose those guys are more for scenario play anyway.

Nice to see my boy Cain up there. I agree that he's hard to use due to the game's ranged bias, but if you can find a map and match that skews things melee, he's just about the best choice without wings.

My only nitpick is that LE Doctor Doom is in fact not Doom. It's just a Doombot that thinks it's Doom.

Looking forward to part 2!

gambitrmp
01/05/2007, 23:35
I predict Jane Foster is going to be in the top 5. If not, I am going to be shocked. Healer with willpower and a fairly nice attack for only 16 points? Oh heck yeah. Probably one of the most used figures I own, and I enjoy using her every time.

For only 4 points more you can have 2 E Paramedics. That's like having willpower or they can heal each other, two at a time (or like prob-2nd chance), or be split up (maybe one in the front line & one in safety) and they're commons. Jane is good; but I might rather run the double medic option in case one gets KO'd or in higher point games you may want to run even more than 2? Coarse I don't have Jane either - started playing around the time Mutant Mayhem came out.

venarnage
01/06/2007, 00:12
Definitely a good read. As with others I'll probably discuss more after part 2 when we know who all made the grade and who got cut (probably by Morlock Leader from the sounds of the discussion).

I doubt she's going to be cut. I think more people need to use her, and see her for the glory that she is....or just keep letting me use her and continue to whip everyones ###!!! :cool:

Penworthy
01/06/2007, 01:10
Though M Leader is good (and as I suspect Mr. P. intended) she would cut her enemies to ribbons, she wouldn't make my list only because Spiral is sooo much better with her wildcard TA, longer dial (by one click), higher defense (by 1) and toughness.

I'm an advocate of BCF in tandem with loads of PC, and have on many occasions used Spiral and M Leader together, side by side. M Leader goes down much faster even though Spiral has no range, can't be carried and has a poorer back end dial. If used with Defender's TA or Fantastic 4, Spiral can go on ticking like an ugly, six armed, energizer bunny. Besides, she can use the Serpent Society TA to make her get away. On one of my uses of the Doom Dame she took down a shocked opponent's Hellboy in one turn with the help of her teammate's OW and TK--ouch!

For eight more points I'd use her every time over M Leader when point count dictated the use of one and not the other. With little possibility of stealth outside a BFC or two, she screams, "Shoot me, shoot me, I might be dangerous!"

Guzmo
01/06/2007, 08:39
Though M Leader is good (and as I suspect Mr. P. intended) she would cut her enemies to ribbons, she wouldn't make my list only because Spiral is sooo much better with her wildcard TA, longer dial (by one click), higher defense (by 1) and toughness.

I disagree. Unless Spiral is copying alt FF4 TA, I think Morlock Leader is better. She is cheaper, have ranged attack and most of all don't have battle fury. Can be thus carried and used as perfect TK bullet with flying TKer like Moondragon, Red Tornado, Songbird, Green Lantern (E) etc..

Hitsusatsu
01/06/2007, 11:01
Great group of clix, Im glad to see LSS on the list. He was one of my allways used until I got Madame Hydra. Now Madame Hydra and Dr Quinnzel are set aside for my fun team. I'll have to add Jessica to the mix now. I didnt agree with Mr Whitefish being on the list, But thats just because I hate Aquaman and didnt like him getting an LE and Barry Allen not getting one. And yes, I know the REV is Wally.
Looking forward to seeing Hal Jordan as #1

Buckeye Born
01/06/2007, 11:06
Great review so far Ol-Dut!!!

I agree with most of the figures listed...and am a very proud supporter of Norman Osborne.

venarnage
01/06/2007, 14:45
I disagree. Unless Spiral is copying alt FF4 TA, I think Morlock Leader is better. She is cheaper, have ranged attack and most of all don't have battle fury. Can be thus carried and used as perfect TK bullet with flying TKer like Moondragon, Red Tornado, Songbird, Green Lantern (E) etc..

This man is genius. :p

Haha, yeah I've gotta give it up for the lack of battle fury. I mean, when you really need to get Spiral back, the only way is by using serpent society TA, and even then, she doesn't have the best speed in the world. Don't get me wrong, the wildcard TA on Spiral is really nice, but with the lack of range, it doesn't do it for me. Also, Spiral keeps BCF for as long as Morlock has Flurry, and vice versa. Me? I'm all about BCF over flurry, unless they've got a damage value of 3....

...did I also mention Leadership???? :rolleyes:


Oh, and I do have to give it up to Madam Hydra. Funky_Jett, a guy that used to come on here quite often, was a long time player at my venue. He would demolish everyone with her. She was one of his fav. pieces. Yes, she does take some strategic playing, but man is she killer with the right pieces and cards...

Top10
01/06/2007, 15:57
I've been pondering very deeply the Top 10 that will be on your list.
I'd like to take a stab at it and maybe you can give me a clue if I'm right.

10. Silver Surfer
9. Madame Hydra
8. Antman
7. Roy Harper
6. Elektra Ninja
5. NGN Ironman
4. Sue Storm
3. Jane Foster
2. ghost Widow
1. NGN Superman

I'm kind of stuck on a few figures.
Kyle Rayner
Jeanne-Marie Beaubier




Am I even close ???????????? :rolleyes:

ol_Dut
01/06/2007, 16:49
I've been pondering very deeply the Top 10 that will be on your list.
I'd like to take a stab at it and maybe you can give me a clue if I'm right.

10. Silver Surfer
9. Madame Hydra
8. Antman
7. Roy Harper
6. Elektra Ninja
5. NGN Ironman
4. Sue Storm
3. Jane Foster
2. ghost Widow
1. NGN Superman

I'm kind of stuck on a few figures.
Kyle Rayner
Jeanne-Marie Beaubier




Am I even close ???????????? :rolleyes:

I can say with 100% certainty that some of those figures may appear in this or another top 10 list of some sort now or in the future;) . And one or more of the figures you listed don't make it. Other than that, I'm not telling until Thursday:laugh: .

kyfra
01/06/2007, 19:41
I'm glad more people are seeing the light!!!


I've run a few close combat GL tanks, and Molock Leader is ALWAYS front and center.

XStreme
01/07/2007, 01:13
#18 – Norman Osborn (Fantastic Forces – Green Goblin, 99 points, no TA) – The REV can hit the trash because after fielding the force of nature that is Norman Osborn they’ll never see the light of day.
#11 – Etrigan (Legacy – The Demon, 88 points, Mystic) - Etrigan gets right to it without all the song and dance of his REV and he delivers a very solid grounded Charger with a viable ranged attack option.

I have to disagree with these two statments. While both of the LEs are great pieces I don't believe either of them replace the V. The Perplex on the V Green Goblin is a really nice addition to the dial....and the V Demon's 12 Speed Charge, longer dial(since he is a Mystic), and Enhancement are such great additions I rarely ever play the LE. I hardly find the points to put Enhancement specifically in my time, with V Demon you get to use the great power but on a figure meant for something entirely differently when the game gets going.

Many of the pieces are really excellent, but I rarely see them being used: Morlock Leader, while a terrible threat in close combat is a tough piece to make work, especially given the range-dominance of the game.

Two words...Protected and Lockjaw...either one or both will go a LONG ways in protecting her and make her an uber killer.

Definitely a good read. As with others I'll probably discuss more after part 2 when we know who all made the grade and who got cut (probably by Morlock Leader from the sounds of the discussion).

I do not believe anyone is getting cut...this was the first half of the Top 20 list...the other half will be the next post...

I just don't think that her powers and TA warrant her being in the top 20. She should get honorable mention for sure, but I doubt many would agree that she is one of the top LEs in the game.

I'd actually argue for her to be in the top 5....I tend not to use her BECAUSE she is so good...

For eight more points I'd use her every time over M Leader when point count dictated the use of one and not the other. With little possibility of stealth outside a BFC or two, she screams, "Shoot me, shoot me, I might be dangerous!"

When 8 points can buy you a Protected...I'd rarely EVER use Spiral over Morlock Leader...especially with that nasty nasty Battle Fury...

Nice list ol'dut...the funny thing is I agree with the first half of your top 10 but I disagree with nearly every honorable mention...most of those dials stink to high heaven if you ask me. Arthur Curry and Captain Marvel are pretty nifty...but I'd never use Carter Hall....

A few that I haven't seen mentioned or talked about much for the top 10 are:

LE Jean Marie Beaubier
LE Betsy Braddock
LE Magneto as Xorn
LE Iron Man(Supernova)
LE Nathaniel Richards(does he count as he hasn't been given out to most people yet?)
LE Kurt Wagner
LE Sarah
LE Rupert
LE Nebula
LE Ultron-13
LE John Walker
LE James Rhodes

venarnage
01/07/2007, 02:12
Two words...Protected and Lockjaw...either one or both will go a LONG ways in protecting her and make her an uber killer.

I do not believe anyone is getting cut...this was the first half of the Top 20 list...the other half will be the next post...

I'd actually argue for her to be in the top 5....I tend not to use her BECAUSE she is so good...

When 8 points can buy you a Protected...I'd rarely EVER use Spiral over Morlock Leader...especially with that nasty nasty Battle Fury...


...you just had to do it, didn't you? :p

tidge
01/07/2007, 12:37
Talkin' trash about my man LE'trigan:

....and the V Demon's 12 Speed Charge, longer dial(since he is a Mystic), and Enhancement are such great additions I rarely ever play the LE. I hardly find the points to put Enhancement specifically in my time, with V Demon you get to use the great power but on a figure meant for something entirely differently when the game gets going.

I used the LE for a solid month as the linchpin of a Wild-Card, high-octane agressive team. This was the team that won four events in a 'qualifying weekend', earning me a coveted spot on the WizKids pre-release "Cheaty Pants" list (yes, that was what they called it!).

Three of those LEtrigan events were wins against KC Flash teams, and I actually got DQ-ed from a fifth event because I argued with a judge when he 'FAQed' away a wall on a map, allowing his team (that I had beaten earlier, but now played by another player) to get some free shots at the non-mystic on my team!

Anywho, in a very large point game, I guess I can see the Vet Demon having uses, but in a 300-point game, I prefer the 'rough-and-ready' LEtrigan.

Top10
01/07/2007, 18:36
I can say with 100% certainty that some of those figures may appear in this or another top 10 list of some sort now or in the future;) . And one or more of the figures you listed don't make it. Other than that, I'm not telling until Thursday:laugh: .

What kind of talk is this???? I need to know just a little bit more.

How many of mine are not even in your Top 10???

C'mon, I can't wait until Thursday !!!!!!!

My UserID is Top10

XStreme
01/07/2007, 23:23
Talkin' trash about my man LE'trigan:

Don't get me wrong, LE Etrigan has a great dial...I just don't believe that the LE makes the V useless. :)

Mr. Pilkington
01/08/2007, 04:24
I guess I can see folks liking V Demon, but I rarely find the points for him. Etrigan makes it easily though. I had a fun team of V Hellboy, V Blue Devil and LE Etrigan. Sort of a "From Hell With Love" team.

And as for my comment about people getting cut, I meant from the overall list (of which we only have part 1, so we only know tha HMs were cut so far).

I have to say that I don't expect Roy Harper to make the grade. Sure, he's a nice damage dealer to start but most anyone can hit him and neuter him. Granted, if he gets in his 39 points worth before they hit him then there you have it. Just a bit too fragile for my tastes (although he's great on a PD theme team).

And as much as I like him, I doubt we'll see Hal on the list. I love that he has close combat effectiveness mid-dial, but most everyone I've seen thinks that a Hal Jordan figure should just be trick-shotting from amid his GL bus of Stealthy, Perplexingly Enhancing Supporters. I like playing my GLs like the loner space cops that they are in the comics so often. I'd also be surprised if Kurt made the top tier. He's not bad but most everyone I know reaches for the U Nightcrawler instead (granted, not everyone has one...).

I'm thinking Nebula won't make the list, and probably not Rupert either. Nebula just isn't worth it in my book (her Vet sees all the use) and while Rupert is a direct upgrade on his REV he's too rare and his range is too short to expect to pull off many triple Incap attacks.

I think Madam Hydra and Ghost Widow are locks for the top 10. They are just too good at what they do. I will understand if Ms. Foster makes the list, although I dispise the figure. I've hated Support since the game started (and haven't seen it enough since the semi-nerfing it took in recent rules changes to decide if I like it now or not) and that is all Jane brings. She's quite good at it, but that's it. I'd much rather have Ghost Widow or Dr. Mid-Nite and have more options. But I know how people love their Jane (or at least used to). Betsy is also a prime cantidate. She was amazing when she came out. I especially liked folks who used her in conjunction with Sentinels as a traitor/hound mutant to help wrangle the others since she lacks the X-men TA. She's an all-round nice little piece, even if she has that sculpt. *shudder*

I haven't seen a lot of Armor Wars LEs in use, although I know Jeanne-Marie saw action before the Hypersonic change (gotta love a flying free-attacking piece). I did have some luck with Ultron-13 in an odd match where I had to use a team my opponent created. He was more useful than I expected. Got to his Defend/Support click and won me the game thanks to sharing that sweet 18. Dunno if he'll rate one of the best, but he is an interesting figure. Similarly I haven't seen NGN Iron Man in action enough to fully appreciate him although I like his dial and rate him near the top for figures named Iron Man. He does sport the best attack value of the lot.

Boy, I sure can get long-winded when I'm stuck on-call fixing servers late at night. Guess I'll clam up for now and say that I can't wait for part 2!

XStreme
01/08/2007, 05:58
I guess I can see folks liking V Demon, but I rarely find the points for him. Etrigan makes it easily though. I had a fun team of V Hellboy, V Blue Devil and LE Etrigan. Sort of a "From Hell With Love" team.

I guess it's just that 12 speed that makes me love the V so much..there are very few characters who have a natural 6 speed Charge.

I did have some luck with Ultron-13 in an odd match where I had to use a team my opponent created. He was more useful than I expected. Got to his Defend/Support click and won me the game thanks to sharing that sweet 18. Dunno if he'll rate one of the best, but he is an interesting figure.

Yeah I'm not quite sure he'll make it either. It seems like people either love him or hate him. I, personally, love him. I have great luck(and/or skill) at getting him onto his prime click and it's won me a few games.(It is particularly deadly with a Darkseid ;)) And I'm usually able to have him do some pretty good damage before he gets there. And that late dial Mastermind can be very annoying for your opponent at the end of the game when he is trying desperately to get a 150 points for the kill. ;)

Mr. Pilkington
01/08/2007, 06:54
I guess it's just that 12 speed that makes me love the V so much..there are very few characters who have a natural 6 speed Charge.

Oh, I hear ya. I just never seem to find the 12 points that want to wait until turn 3.

XStreme
01/08/2007, 07:06
Oh, I hear ya. I just never seem to find the 12 points that want to wait until turn 3.

What's great about him though is you aren't waiting until turn 3 to get use out of him. With ESD and Enhancement he can both be hard to hit on his activation click as well as helping out his teammates...once he gets pushed THEN he gets dangerous on his own...but at first he can be very useful on alot of teams.

Often times I'll put Double Time on him also...it not only helps at the beginning but can be used with L/C and is good to get away and heal if that is your strategy.

olcottr
01/08/2007, 13:11
#15 – Cain Marko (Fantastic Forces – Juggernaut, 155 points, no TA) – “Nothing can stop the Juggernaut” is the popular refrain seen in many a comics panel that Juggernaut graces. Finally, here is a Juggy that lives up to that statement. Again a little tinkering makes a huge difference, and by shedding the X-Men TA, Cain buys some huge attacks, starting with a 12, and an additional click of Impervious. Breaking up his Charge clicks to early and mid-dial further enhance his mobility and thus his playability. In the realm of grounded bricks, there aren’t any better than Cain Marko.

Not to mention that extra click of life! :cool:

Mr. Pilkington
01/08/2007, 13:32
What's great about him though is you aren't waiting until turn 3 to get use out of him. With ESD and Enhancement he can both be hard to hit on his activation click as well as helping out his teammates...once he gets pushed THEN he gets dangerous on his own...but at first he can be very useful on alot of teams.

Often times I'll put Double Time on him also...it not only helps at the beginning but can be used with L/C and is good to get away and heal if that is your strategy.

Wait, the Vet is more than 100 isn't he? At 31 points more than the LE he definitely doesn't fit most of my teams. Granted, you do get 2 clicks more of life (one of the enhancing activation click) frontloaded on what is more or less Etrigan's dial, but if someone tags him for 3 clicks even hitting the 17 from range he is more or less a much more expensive Etrigan.

But again, I'm not saying the Vet is useless. I think it has pretty specific uses given the sheer cost and that the LE is easier to fit on teams and more direct to play. If V Demon works for you then keep on keepin' on. :cool:

tidge
01/08/2007, 13:38
But again, I'm not saying the Vet is useless. I think it has pretty specific uses given the sheer cost and that the LE is easier to fit on teams and more direct to play. Ih V Demon works for you then keep on keepin' on. :cool:

I'm not saying Vet Demon is useless either; he's a great buddy for DOOM on a massive-points WC team. But as with Mr. P, I find the extra cost in points advances the Vet Demon further up the chain of 'who from my team must hit first'...and I find it hard to get the Vet Demon 'into the fray' without seriously risking him either (a) being pushed...and just standing around, or (b) just sitting on that vulnerable first click...say if he got carried as part of a flier's running shot.

Mr. Pilkington
01/08/2007, 14:02
Not to mention that extra click of life! :cool:

You know, I never really looked at Cain. He is a beastly brick! And you can go old school for an X-men arcade game boss team using:

LE Cain Marko 155
E Wendigo 61
E Blob 42
V Pyro 42
----------------
total 300

For a 500 point game you can downgrade Blob to rookie and add E Mystique and Ultimates Magneto. Then you can say "X-Chickens!".

:grin:

Edit: Oooooooo!

Or to more simulate the arcade game you could use V Magneto as Mystique (since she was mimicing him in the game... somehow). You can still squeeze into 500:

155 LE Cain Marko
144 U Magneto
103 V Magneto
40 R Wendigo
31 R Blob
27 R Pyro
-----------------------
500 total

ol_Dut
01/08/2007, 14:22
You know, I never really looked at Cain...

See, that seems to be the case with these FF LE's. There are some really good pieces but they generally all seem to get lumped together and given a clollective bum rap due to the whole LE/SR situation. Since there are tons of them around, they may not be worth much from a dollar perspective, but with regard to their playablity, Norman and Cain are top-notch. I'd put 'em there against anybody.

Mr. Pilkington
01/08/2007, 15:25
See, that seems to be the case with these FF LE's. There are some really good pieces but they generally all seem to get lumped together and given a clollective bum rap due to the whole LE/SR situation.

I was thinking that myself. I remember that no one was very enthusiastic about them at the time since there weren't different SR dial colors and there were so few figures. But yeah, I hate facing Norman. He eats my theme teams. I once faced him, an old school Super Skrull and a V Nebula all on the same team. I was shot to pieces very quickly.

XStreme
01/08/2007, 21:58
Wait, the Vet is more than 100 isn't he? At 31 points more than the LE he definitely doesn't fit most of my teams. Granted, you do get 2 clicks more of life (one of the enhancing activation click) frontloaded on what is more or less Etrigan's dial, but if someone tags him for 3 clicks even hitting the 17 from range he is more or less a much more expensive Etrigan.

Well he's the Mystic I usually use on my uber Wildcard teams and those teams usually have a good Defend character on them also. :) Oh also worth noting that V Demon has that sweet 4 damage click also. ;)

See, that seems to be the case with these FF LE's. There are some really good pieces but they generally all seem to get lumped together and given a clollective bum rap due to the whole LE/SR situation. Since there are tons of them around, they may not be worth much from a dollar perspective, but with regard to their playablity, Norman and Cain are top-notch. I'd put 'em there against anybody.

The majority of the FF LEs are actually quite good. Cain Marko, Norman Osborn, and Sue Storm are, of course, the cream of the crop...followed closely by Kurt Wagner..then Reed Richards, Ben Grimm, and Namor all have their advantages also. Johnny Storm sucks horribly though...like one of the worst LEs of all time...