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View Full Version : Marquee Primer HeroClix A to Z – Origin Marquee Primer: Part 1 - Commons


AZS
03/04/2007, 23:18
Origin Marquee Primer Review

We didn’t get to see all the figures in time for Prerelease, but now that that is passed, the remainder of the set has come to light.

The dials for this review are based on the Prerelease Reports thread. (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2552428) Unless the figures have officially been revealed on WK site.
I apologize in advance for any possible errors.

Here’s the review schedule:

Part 1 – Commons (Today)
Part 2 – Uncommons (Tues)
Part 3 – Rares (Wed)
Part 4 – Uniques (Thurs)
Part 5 – Cards & Special Objects (Fri)

These reviews are intended strictly for sealed, 300 point games with only this set.

Click ‘Read More…’ below for the full review.

AZS
03/04/2007, 23:24
Welcome to yet another Marquee Primer Review!

DC Origin takes us back with some real classic characters, new versions of old ones, and some other septuagenarians making their first appearance. This set also bolsters the ranks of the JSA significantly as well as giving us several new villains from the Injustice League and wildcard Calculator team members.
The set has a handful of super high power pieces and a good mix of low to mid level figs to even things out. There are a few pieces that really stand out, though surprisingly they aren’t named Batman or Superman, and aren’t necessarily Uniques either.

This review is for a 300 point, 3 booster Sealed event only.
Using a Smiley :) rating system.

:confused: – Steer clear of this figure.
:disappoin:disappoin – Not so good. Should be considered with caution.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: – Fair. Based on how you need to fill out a team.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: – Good. Definitely consider this figure.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: – Great! Should be a top choice for your team.

These figures are compared only within the Origin set, so there will be only a few 1 or 5 smiley ratings here.
So please realize that even though your favorite character might not have gotten five smileys like you think it should, I’m just trying to be fair.

Everything written here is in the most general form possible.
Since the specific combination of figures pulled will work together to determine which are more playable than others. This is particularly true due to the high number of cooperative team abilities, like; Sinister Syndicate, Defenders, and Wildcards.


Lastly, this review is just my opinion. And these are a lot of work to write, so I ask you very kindly, please don’t get angry at me for my ratings. I give reasonable explanations for each choice. If you disagree (and you are welcome to do so), please try to do the same.

Brief comment about Origin and things to look out for:

Once again we’re looking at a lot of high defenses and moderate attack values.
Yeah, there’s not the glut of 9 AV and 17 def we saw in Sinister, but with all the JSA and Wildcards in the set, you’re sure to be shooting at more 17’s than you might think just from looking at the stats. There’s also a bunch of 18’s and couple 19’s to deal with. So the more high AV’s you can get the better.

With that in mind, make sure to have at least a couple figures with 10 or better AV who have an average chance to hit a 17.

Also note that there are a handful of uber-powerful figs in the set capable of dealing 5 or 6 damage in one hit. Make sure your team (as a whole) can survive one fig getting clobbered.

That’s all on that, now (finally) on to the review!


Part 1 – Commons

#001 R Blackhawks
Team: P.D
Range: 6 /
Points: 23
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8915289152791426814168131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#002 E Blackhawks
Team: PD
Range: 8 /
Points: 30
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89152791427914279131610132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#003 V Blackhawks
Team: PD
Range: 6 /
Points: 35
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8101728917279162791626815168151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
The Blackhawks continue the trend of creating a Better, Stronger, Faster generic figure. These cheap pieces are capable and well priced for their usefulness.
The rookie offers fair attack ability for his low cost, but the real value comes from his TA, which will help boost your ranged attacker’s AV. Also use him as a tie up piece to base an opposing figure to take advantage of his Combat Reflexes.
The Exp is a good sniper fig who gets better later in the dial. This is an extraordinary deal for only 30 points.
The Vet shines with high defense, good AV and Leadership. Willpower and the Police TA are bonuses.
R – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
E – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
V – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

#004 R Phantom Lady
Team: JSA
Range: 4 /
Points: 35
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7916278162681516715157141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#005 E Phantom Lady
Team: JSA
Range: 6 /
Points: 45
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal891617916278152781506814067140KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#006 V Phantom Lady
Team: JSA
Range: 6 //
Points: 62
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal891728917279161781517715167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOThere’s not a lot of Stealth in this set, so using PL as a cheap human shield could work. Super Senses gives added protection, and Incap is a constantly underrated power.
The Exp PL doesn’t offer much for synergy. Her opening attack is weak and her overall dial is unimpressive for the cost. The Vet however is a little better thanks to double target Incap and a higher defense – something your other JSAers and Wildcards will be grateful for.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :confused:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#007 R Robotman
Team: Outsiders
Range: 0 /
Points: 46
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8817388162881628715277151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#008 E Robotman
Team: Outsiders
Range: 0 /
Points: 82
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal891738916388162781527715287152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#009 V Robotman
Team: Outsiders
Range: 0 /
Points: 106
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal99183891748916361016379153781527814267142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOOnce again the Outsiders’ TA shows us just how expensive it is, particularly on the Rookie. For 46 points you get an abysmal AV, short dial and minimal usefulness.
Keeping in mind that A) Outsiders TA can’t be copied, and B) You have to use it at the beginning of your turn.
The Exp is better thanks to Charge and higher AV, but at a steep price. And forget the Vet – even with a peaking AV of 10 mid dial, he’s not worth his 100+ point cost. Here’s to hoping you’ll have much better things to do with a third of your team build.
R – :confused:
E – :disappoin:disappoin
V – :disappoin:disappoin

#010 R Ray
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 /
Points: 60
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1081629815199143991438814287132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#011 E Ray
Team: JLA
Range: 8 /
Points: 74
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1091621091629815198142971428713186131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#012 V Ray
Team: JSA
Range: 10 /
Points: 105
AE Base: NONEm-winga-normald-normalg-normal1291621110162109162109152108151981418713186131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKORunning Shot / Pulse Wave is always a fun combo. However, keep in mind that while PW ignores pretty much everything on a figure, it does not ignore the hindering terrain modifier. So starting with an 8 AV is somewhat weak on a 60 point fig.
You do a little better with a dash of HSS and some more variety on the Exp, but he’s only a mediocre secondary attacker for the cost.
The Vet will undoubtedly shine in constructed play when you can build a team to best support him, but in this format he’s a little hard pressed to live up to his cost – mainly because you can’t use RCE with HSS or RS. However, his 3 clicks of Regen and JSA TA should go a long way towards keeping alive.
R – :disappoin:disappoin
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#013 R Wildcat
Team: JSA
Range: 0 /
Points: 54
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal81015381015379143791426813181015378142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#014 E Wildcat
Team: JSA
Range: 0 /
Points: 66
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal
8111638101538915279142681428101537914368142 KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#015 V Wildcat
Team: JSA
Range: 0 /
Points: 74
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal9111629101628101537915379143791426814268132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOWow, what a beast! Wildcat is a bruiser worthy of his legacy across all 3 versions.
Pair any version with a Flier (preferably a JSAer or Wildcard) to help his defense and get him into battle, and he’ll really tear it up.
The Rookie has a strong AV and starting Damage plus Flurry. So if you can get off an attack, it should deal some significant damage. The real issue with him will be if you can boost his defense with the JSA TA, otherwise he’ll be an easy target. His playability down the whole dial adds a lot to his value, which is already pretty high for the cost.
The Exp is a gem thanks to Charge and a very high AV. He’ll be extremely useful for taking high defense figs down a peg so the rest of your team can follow up. His 2 clicks of Regen will also help keep him alive.
The Vet is an interesting change, but will still do well thanks to the high AV. He loses Regen, but has an otherwise deep dial. Because he’ll be a big target, he’s relying on the JSA TA and a partner to keep his otherwise average 16 defense from being a liability.
R – :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
E – :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
V – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

#016 R Damage
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 35
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal881638816377152781427914369144KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#017 E Damage
Team: Titans
Range: 8 /
Points: 62
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8917378163771634101346815367144210115KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#018 V Damage
Team: JSA
Range: 0 /
Points: 85
AE Base: nonem-normala-normald-normalg-normal89174791737816377162681636915459154510145KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage starts off similar to Robotman, but without the TA he saves on cost. If you have a 35 point hole to fill and nobody else to take the space, this isn’t a terrible option.
For 62 points the Exp is a definite liability. He looks good on paper with his stats, but Battle Fury is a huge hindrance keeping him from getting carried into battle. It’ll also make it tough for him to get around and use his TA.
The Vet is the most mobile of the bunch thanks to Charge, and his high damage is a nice touch. With a deep dial and variety of powers he’s not a bad deal for 85 points.
R – :disappoin:disappoin
E – :confused:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#019 R Halo
Team: Outsiders
Range: 6 /
Points: 43
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal9815388152871427714276141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#020 E Halo
Team: Outsiders
Range: 8 /
Points: 70
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal991628816288151871427714277131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#021 V Halo
Team: Outsiders
Range: 10 //
Points: 116
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal99163991629915288152881428714277143KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOShort range, high cost, low AV – Halo casts a dim light over all her versions. The rookie doesn’t offer anything of value. The Exp is pricey for what she does, and the Vet is not nearly worth more than a third of your team build for her otherwise ok powers. In a constructed game she could be good and fun, but in a sealed event she’ll be an anchor.
R – :disappoin:disappoin
E – :disappoin:disappoin
V – :disappoin:disappoin

#022 R Mano
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 33
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7816368152681525714257142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#023 E Mano
Team: Calculators
Range: 0 /
Points: 43
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7916379163681526714157141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#024 V Mano
Team: Calculators
Range: 0 /
Points: 56
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal791627916378153681526714257143KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOThere is a glut of damage reducing powers in this set, so Exploit Weakness is going to be a boon for anyone. Rookie Mano at only 33 points with 3 damage + EW is good even in spite of his lowish 8 AV. At the very least, your opponent will have to see him as a threat and make the effort to try to take him out.
The Exp takes it a step further with Poison to hurt unprotected opponents and the Calculator TA to maximize his potential.
The Vet suffers by not starting with EW, and Quake is an odd power choice for him. However, he does have a fun click with Blades & EW, so if you can pull that off it’ll be worth the effort.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#025 R Shadow Thief
Team: Injustice League
Range: 0 /
Points: 38
AE Base: Hawkman (Orange)m-normala-normald-normalg-normal891638815278152781426714167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#026 E Shadow Thief
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 47
AE Base: Hawkman (Orange)m-normala-normald-normalg-normal991729916398163781526814297161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#027 V Shadow Thief
Team: Calculator
Range: 4 /
Points: 65
AE Base: Hawkman (Orange)m-normala-normald-normalg-normal99162991638916288152881527816277171KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSo far there are a number of figures in the 35 – 50 point range that are good for filler and as secondary attackers. R Shadow Thief falls into that realm as well. 6 clicks of Stealth are good for cover, and his opening attack with 9 AV and 3 damage is pretty solid. EW is also a good attack, and Super Senses or Combat Reflexes are nice defenses. The Injustice League TA is a total waste, but for 38 points you’re not losing anything either.
Phasing on the Exp isn’t bad, to help him as a tie up piece. High defense and overlapping Super Senses / Shape Change make him extremely hard to hit. Between the defense and Phasing, he’ll make for a great tie up piece.
The Vet actually has less playability on his than the Exp, with defense down a point and the always useful :rolleyes: Smoke Cloud. He has neither the good defense of the Exp or the starting Stealth of the Rookie.
His two saving graces are the Calculator TA and starting with EW. It also doesn’t hurt that his defense goes up at the end of this dial, making him very hard to KO.
R – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
E – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#028 R Knockout
Team: Superman Enemy
Range: 0 /
Points: 70
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal691736916379162781527815268142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#029 E Knockout
Team: Suicide Squad
Range: 0 /
Points: 80
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal810183891737817378162710152610143611133KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#030 V Knockout
Team: Suicide Squad
Range: 0 /
Points: 97
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal1010174810173891737916279162691528814388144KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOMuch like the Outsiders TA, Superman Enemy has also historically been pricey, though its considerably more useful.
Kockout starts off a little funny, with low movement Charge, and a so-so dial. The plus side is that Supes Enemy TA can be copied by Wildcards – so with the right combo of figs you can get Outwit outta her. Without a good partner though, she’s hard to justify the 70 points, which makes her use largely dependant on your other pulls.
For 80 points you do a little better thanks to higher stats and more powers. The Suicide Squad TA can be very useful, especially if you pull a (suicidal) Pog.
The Vet isn’t bad either for just under 100 points, but doesn’t have the same sweet end of dial upswing of the Exp.
R – :disappoin:disappoin
E – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#031 R Copperhead
Team: Batman Enemy
Range: 0 /
Points: 60
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89163891628815278143781336713367122KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#032 E Copperhead
Team: Suicide Squad
Range: 2 /
Points: 79
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89171891618915278142781427713277132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#033 V Copperhead
Team: Calculator
Range: 2 /
Points: 88
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89182810172891618915188152781427714277132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOTie up central here! Plasticity and Combat Reflexes makes for a very annoying grounded figure. Unfortunately, many of the big guns in the higher rarity levels are fliers with ranged attacks, so CR +2 to CC attacks as a defense doesn’t do much.
The Exp is similarly interesting with more Plas, but better overall stats. His 2 range is mostly meaningless, but again, Suicide Squad TA is nice. Use this with a Pog moreso on a more deserving Wildcard fig for healing.
And Speaking of Wildcards, the Vet here is pretty nice as well. 18 defense is good not just for him, but for any JSA figs you pull. 88 points is a lot to spend on a fig that will mostly be for secondary purposes, but with the right pulls he can bring together a lot of elements.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#034 R Question
Team: Batman Ally
Range: 0 /
Points: 40
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7815278152771426714166141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#035 E Question
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 53
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal791628916288162781527814267132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#036 V Question
Team: No Affilation
Range: 0 /
Points: 61
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89162891627815278142710162610151610141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOThe biggest thing the Rookie Question does for your team is offer the Batman TA for your Wildcards. Though perma-Stealth and Outwit isn’t too shabby either!
There’s always a use for Perplex, so the Exp also has some appeal. Stealth shield and Incap can be useful too.
Depending on how desperate you are for Outwit will determine how much you’ll want to play the Vet. Besides Outwith and some Perplex later, he doesn’t offer anything else of much value.
R – :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
E – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

That’s it for the commons, tomorrow the Uncommons will be posted – Animal Man through Hawkman.


Thanks for reading, and good luck at your Marquee!

Marlow
03/05/2007, 01:17
As always a good review.
I would have given the Vet Question three stars. If anyone goes to try and deal with him they will usually have to base him (stealth) and if he get hit, he can retaliate with a 10AV for 3 damage.

Peers
03/05/2007, 02:01
One thing missing from your analysis of V Shadow Thief is that his Smoke Cloud actually has a use -- You can use Smoke Cloud to push off his first click, and he lands on Stealth -- so if you placed the Smoke Cloud right, he's safe from ranged attacks.

hobbygob
03/05/2007, 09:36
As always a good review.
I would have given the Vet Question three stars. If anyone goes to try and deal with him they will usually have to base him (stealth) and if he get hit, he can retaliate with a 10AV for 3 damage.


I concure.

AZS
03/05/2007, 09:38
As always a good review.
I would have given the Vet Question three stars. If anyone goes to try and deal with him they will usually have to base him (stealth) and if he get hit, he can retaliate with a 10AV for 3 damage.Thanks, but I conceed, V Question is probably better than I gave him credit for. I changed him to three smilies. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ville
03/05/2007, 09:40
Awesome! Very helpful article, so thanks a lot!

Wildcards´s usefulness will vary, according to what else is pulled to accompany them. I look forward to getting Mano and some good TA:s to boost his prowess. Exp version can be a nightmare to face, especially when used with Jakeem Thunder and other ace JSA pieces!

Veteran Knockout is also in my Marquee wish-list. I like him better than exp because he has Super Strength in front of Quake, which is a lot more sensible option than them being in reverse order. Battle Fury can be a hindrance, but I wouldn´t mind that too much, since he wants to move on his own to pick up objects. Plus a good SS roll can make or break the whole game.

I´d also add more smileys for vet Question. You get a pretty tough package for mere 61 points. Outwit, Perplex and CCE until the end: very good in my books. He isn´t bad at any point, and is able to hurt anyone on his every click.

Thanks again! I´m really looking forward for the analysis of uncommons.:classic:

Thrumble Funk
03/05/2007, 09:53
I agree with pretty much everything except for (V) Question. He made quite a mark at my prerelease!

HappyTrain
03/05/2007, 10:06
LOVED IT.

R Question teamed up with E Question is a solid support base for any sealed Origin event. I used them as Well as V Steel for massive damage.

samuraigrifter
03/05/2007, 10:06
Great review! I love the Rookie Question just for being a Batman Ally alone. The fact that he also has Outwit is just icing on the cake. Can't wait to read your reviews on the uncommons.

tidge
03/05/2007, 10:16
Thanks for this series!

Minor quibbles:

Rookie Ray: I agree 100% about the hindering terrain modifier hurting his 'to hit' chances, but with so much perplex in this set, his move+attack, running shot/pulse wave, +TAXI is really a 'bargain' (in this set's sealed play) for 60 points. He was on my undefeated PR team.

Rookie Question: I faced this piece once, and it was never a threat, despite being on an Outwit click all the time. He can help certain teamn builds, but at 40 points (in a set without many other pieces below that cost) and on a map with already lots of blocked LoF, and with no Leap/Climb he's not as great as you might think.

StormCrawler
03/05/2007, 10:35
Interesting review. Although I might disagree on more ratings than with previous primers. But I think that shows the strength of Origin.

Keep up the good work, AZS!

Miraclo
03/05/2007, 10:35
Good work as always.

I opted not to travel to Reading or West Berlin for a pre-release, so online's all I've had for considering any of the figures. Given some of the forces appearing at higher levels in this set I'm going to reserve judgement until all five parts of the primer have appeared since I haven't taken the time to look through all the dials, much less make a second pass through them with the cards in the set in mind.

Since I cut well back on my buys for this set this will be the first time in years where I won't be ending release week with a complete set (minus super-rare chase figures) laid out on my dining room table.

mr-coffin
03/05/2007, 10:36
I too was easily able to handle R Question, and watched as V Question rocked some socks. Overall GREAT review though.

Almighty Liminator
03/05/2007, 10:37
I think V Ray should get 4 stars because of his HSS. HSS works very well for this map because of all the nooks and crannies. I was watching a match and what was left was ray vs 3 characters and ray put up a really good fight just hitting and running.

Blubeard
03/05/2007, 10:40
tidge, i pulled him in my prerelease, and he was very effective. hes one of what 2 figs in the set with the batman ally TA? with so many wildcards this is very useful. and cheap outwit is always handy. there are tons of stealth opportunities on this map, so positioning is rarely a problem, especially if you don't need objects for SS.

tidge
03/05/2007, 10:51
tidge, i pulled him in my prerelease, and he was very effective. hes one of what 2 figs in the set with the batman ally TA? with so many wildcards this is very useful. and cheap outwit is always handy. there are tons of stealth opportunities on this map, so positioning is rarely a problem, especially if you don't need objects for SS.

Rookie Question can be effective (especially with Vet? Mirror Master) but against me he just kept getting slapped by Rookie Ray's Pulsewave and/or based by an Atom. You have to realize, this character has no ranged attack, and a 40-points you are likely passing up some other very effective pieces in this set: Blackhawks which are less points, or pieces that are ~60 points (U Sandman, Knockouts, etc.).

He's also missing Leap/Climb, which is what makes the Starter Batman so effective. If you don't have TAXI options for him, he's likely to be wandering around the map stuck away from the excitement.

Paired with a HSS monster (Wildcard Mon-El?), I'm sure he'd be great, but he did nothing for the team I faced.

PMMJ
03/05/2007, 11:37
Five stars for Wilcat? Mano is a common? We are truly living in a golden age of Heroclixin'.

anonym0use
03/05/2007, 11:53
I'd *maybe* have given the E Mano an extra smiley for the frontloaded poison. In a sealed game with lots of 18/19 Willpower/Defend figures, this piece could help turn the tide for a lot of people... if used properly (protect him with JSA TA & wait to move him in until after someone (Jakeem or Mr. Miracle) has a token (or two) on them). V Question did well for me, but I see your point. If he had range he'd be a real thorn in the side. I still think the V deserves more than 1 smiley.

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 12:25
You've pretty much nailed the ratings there, AZS.

Wildcat is an awesome piece for the points, and if you pull him - use him! I had the veteran in the prerelease and he's just so consistent you won't be disappointed. Likewise, if you see him on your opponent's side, take him out as fast as you can.

I also would give Question V a higher rating. He starts with Outwit which is very powerful in sealed, and then it becomes Perplex. After that, he's as useful as Wildcat on his last three clicks with the bump up in his attack value and CCE. I guess what I'm trying to say is that every single one of his clicks are very useful, and he's only 61 points!

I have to also agree that Mano can be good filler. Exploit Weakness can come in really handy, and the poison on the experienced helped me take down Jakeem! :p

Roderic_Cliche
03/05/2007, 12:27
No one else noticed the improper spelling of a bad guy's name starting with K and supposed to be ending with nockout? :O That is indeed "a little funny." But a good article overall. Got to say I like some rookie Question action. :)

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 12:29
I'd *maybe* have given the E Mano an extra smiley for the frontloaded poison. In a sealed game with lots of 18/19 Willpower/Defend figures, this piece could help turn the tide for a lot of people... if used properly (protect him with JSA TA & wait to move him in until after someone (Jakeem or Mr. Miracle) has a token (or two) on them). V Question did well for me, but I see your point. If he had range he'd be a real thorn in the side. I still think the V deserves more than 1 smiley.

Yep, the poison is definitely useful. I took down Jakeem with it, but it also helped that I had my own Jakeem to make my Mano pretty evasive!:laugh:

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 12:37
Awesome! Very helpful article, so thanks a lot!

Wildcards´s usefulness will vary, according to what else is pulled to accompany them. I look forward to getting Mano and some good TA:s to boost his prowess. Exp version can be a nightmare to face, especially when used with Jakeem Thunder and other ace JSA pieces!

Veteran Knockout is also in my Marquee wish-list. I like him better than exp because he has Super Strength in front of Quake, which is a lot more sensible option than them being in reverse order. Battle Fury can be a hindrance, but I wouldn´t mind that too much, since he wants to move on his own to pick up objects. Plus a good SS roll can make or break the whole game.

I´d also add more smileys for vet Question. You get a pretty tough package for mere 61 points. Outwit, Perplex and CCE until the end: very good in my books. He isn´t bad at any point, and is able to hurt anyone on his every click.

Thanks again! I´m really looking forward for the analysis of uncommons.:classic:

Um... don't let Knockout hear you calling her a "him" or you'll have some 'splaining to do.

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 12:41
Thanks, but I dissagree.
By the time he's hitting with 10 AV, he's very easy to KO. No more stealth, no defense, just Willpower. It's nice that he has that followup ability, but I can't see it coming into play in a significant way very often.

True, but all he needs to do is get in one swipe with three or four damage and he's done his job. Especially if you got to use his Outwit and Perplex a few times in the beginning of the game.

Devon_v
03/05/2007, 13:04
Paired with a HSS monster (Wildcard Mon-El?), I'm sure he'd be great, but he did nothing for the team I faced.

That's exactly what I did. A HSS guy with a dumpster and stealth supported by outwit is very hard to deal with. Crushed V Supergirl and a R Shazam!/E Cyborg Superman team taking a total of 2 clicks of damage in the two matches. It helped naturally that I also had Jakeem Thunder providing 18 DV and PC.

Stealth is your friend on this map.

secretwarrior
03/05/2007, 13:04
THANKS AZS!

great stuff as always. It's great to see Wildcat get 5 stars. the JSA is really getting some respect in heroclix with all the new pieces Seth's given us.

But one thing: Don't you think Robotman's 18 def offsets his 9 attack? As 106 points of your team, an 18 def will go aalong way particulary considering the many 10, 9 even 8 attacks.

Just wondering... I'm not really not much of a robo-man fan

Spike501
03/05/2007, 13:07
I ended up pulling and using 4 characters (3 on this list with 4 or more smilies, and a rookie rare with a lightning bolt on his chest that had better get 4-5 smilies) and I'd have to agree that R/E Question and E Knockout are very deserving of the highest praise. I'd almost want to give Knockout a 5th smilie with how well she did for me in the tournament. Every game, she either didn't get hit off of her 18 defense, or else she got hit a second time and landed on her flurry 3 damage clicks which I perplexed to 4 damge. One game she finished off SHAZAM! and the Vet Question in one action.

malger
03/05/2007, 13:12
So will you be reviewing the chase pieces as well? A 17 point Superman Ally has to be the deal of the century with all of the wildcards in this set.
Also, Don't forget that DC got their first transporters with the E/V Mirror Master.
...Oops, I'm getting ahead of you.

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 13:25
So will you be reviewing the chase pieces as well? A 17 point Superman Ally has to be the deal of the century with all of the wildcards in this set.
Also, Don't forget that DC got their first transporters with the E/V Mirror Master.
...Oops, I'm getting ahead of you.

I would think Lois would get 5 smileys for being so cheap and having Superman Ally for the many wildcards in this expansion.

Alfred would probably get less though since he costs almost double, although he does have Support and Batman Ally (for more wildcard abuse). So probably 3 or maybe 4.

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 13:30
I ended up pulling and using 4 characters (3 on this list with 4 or more smilies, and a rookie rare with a lightning bolt on his chest that had better get 4-5 smilies) and I'd have to agree that R/E Question and E Knockout are very deserving of the highest praise. I'd almost want to give Knockout a 5th smilie with how well she did for me in the tournament. Every game, she either didn't get hit off of her 18 defense, or else she got hit a second time and landed on her flurry 3 damage clicks which I perplexed to 4 damge. One game she finished off SHAZAM! and the Vet Question in one action.

I had rookie Shazam as well, but didn't play him. It was either him or Jakeem and I went for the defense abuse with SO COOL. It helped me bring down a veteran Shazam in the first game, and another Jakeem, Hawkman, and Damage in the second game.

But I probably should have clicked through the rookie Shazam's dial because he's pretty sweet for the points.

dariusq
03/05/2007, 13:41
I would have given the Vet Question three stars. If anyone goes to try and deal with him they will usually have to base him (stealth) and if he get hit, he can retaliate with a 10AV for 3 damage.

When? By the time he has a 10AV he's lost Stealth and more than fair game for sniping. Still, I too favour the V but for constructed play only. Within the context of the Marquee the RE are more useful. Need to save points for the big guns.

dernjg
03/05/2007, 14:06
V Blackhawk should be considered a 5-star. Just ignoring his powers and team abilities, he's a 6-click dial for only 35 points, and at least four of those clicks are worth what a 10-point pog would be.
Throw in a team ability and he's helping out the team, then add in willpower and EE? It's nuts.
He's one of the most dangerous points-per-punch pieces out there, and yet is so cheap that you HAVE to focus your first and second waves of attacks on other pieces. He will always do at least double his points in help and kills.

GroovyBoy
03/05/2007, 14:08
After deciding to use V Supergirl, one of my few options was R Copperhead, so I went with him. He was great as a meat shield and to cut off LOS to SG with help from walls and corners. He even dealt 3 damage late in his dial by sharing SG's attack (thanks to the Bat Enemy TA and SG's wildcard) a few times, which neutered a couple of opponents. Unfortunatley, I ran into a V Mr. Miracle in the third round...

Ghost_Rider
03/05/2007, 14:17
When? By the time he has a 10AV he's lost Stealth and more than fair game for sniping. Still, I too favour the V but for constructed play only. Within the context of the Marquee the RE are more useful. Need to save points for the big guns.

True, but on this map you don't really have to worry too much about sniping being in such closed quarters.

Impulse-ive
03/05/2007, 15:02
I have to disagree with your review of the Question. In a sealed tournament, Question's perplex and P/C are life savers. The E Question I ran in the pre-release helped a team with no double digit attacks go 3-0 and end in 2nd. :p

Pashmina
03/05/2007, 15:49
I love these primers.

E Question was so useful on my team. He's my favourite.

ohoni
03/05/2007, 16:02
Depending on how desperate you are for Outwit will determine how much you’ll want to play the Vet. Besides Outwith and some Perplex later, he doesn’t offer anything else of much value.

My Vet GL begs to differ, those last few clicks of 10 AV and solid CC damage can be deadly in the right place.

biz567
03/05/2007, 19:48
Nice review! I hope to get the R Question, pretty sweet piece. I think V Robotman is a great piece to tell the truth, but then again, this IS meant for 300 points, so I can see where he wouldn't be that helpful.

So thanks for the review!

lunar
03/05/2007, 20:01
I think Quake on Mano totally makes sense. He obliterated his entire planet, after all. What I'm not understanding is the BCF... I chalk it up to Seth's liberal interpretations of powers.

Ignatz_Mouse
03/05/2007, 20:01
Nice review. As usual, I agree with most, but the only comment beyond "thanks" is what I disagree with. I think V Phantom Lady is a 4-star fig. With Supersenses and a 17 D and stealth, it will be very hard to hit her (since the SS will likely not be outwitted) and the dual incap will be very useful in most games with people playing less than 6 figs. With all the JSA and wildcards, she'll be sharing that D until the end of most games. From what little I saw of her Saturday, that was the case, too.

doc_monocle
03/05/2007, 20:22
Brief comment about Origin and things to look out for:

Once again we’re looking at a lot of high defenses and moderate attack values.
Yeah, there’s not the glut of 9 AV and 17 def we saw in Sinister, but with all the JSA and Wildcards in the set, you’re sure to be shooting at more 17’s than you might think just from looking at the stats. There’s also a bunch of 18’s and couple 19’s to deal with. So the more high AV’s you can get the better.

With that in mind, make sure to have at least a couple figures with 10 or better AV who have an average chance to hit a 17.

Despite some genuinely high defense values (especially Vet Atom's 20) I played with or against a number of figs that had a low-to-average DVs supplemented by either ESD or Combat Reflexes, especially after they took a click or two of damage. The key is to fight them either in close combat, or at range, as appropriate.


#002 E Blackhawks
Team: PD
Range: 8 /
Points: 30
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89152791427914279131610132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


Nasty piece with its consistent AV and helpful TA. My support pieces had to go after him before he could finish shooting them to bits.


#010 R Ray
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 /
Points: 60
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1081629815199143991438814287132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


One of those average defense plus ESD figures. Mine kept getting based and smacked around pretty easily. His low AV and damage didn't help either. Not being able to damage Invuln/Imperv characters while using Running Shot was a big hinderance.


Wildcat


Used the E and I think I fought both the R and the V. My Wildcat tended to go after his clones on my opponents' teams and came out on top since he could get the first hit in thanks to Charge (and being taxied about by Hawkman).


#017 E Damage
Team: Titans
Range: 8 /
Points: 62
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8917378163771634101346815367144210115KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


Encountered him in a multiplayer brawl after the main event. My partner dealt with him more than I did but he was never really a threat. Battle Fury and lack of Charge stopped him from getting in any good hits and he was knocked right past his Pulse Wave clicks.


#022 R Mano
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 33
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal7816368152681525714257142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


Had him on my team. Two out of the three games I tried to push him onto that second click as soon as possible in order to get the Poison. With a flier to carry him around he was quite helpful in damaging characters with high defenses, Super Senses, and/or Shape Change. I didn't push him in that one match because I needed as many of my figs as possible capable of hurting an E Valor. Biggest downside is the short, easy to hit dial.


#036 V Question
Team: No Affilation
Range: 0 /
Points: 61
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89162891627815278142710162610151610141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


Like everyone's been saying, he's a great piece. Not percieved as a big target by my opponents, and the Stealth forcing them to get in close, gave him a greater lifespan than you might expect. He can also hurt Invuln/Imperv characters on every one of his clicks. The Outwit worked out well (even better when teamed up with a second fig with Perplex and a third that had Prob); he spent virtually the entirety of one match standing in an object on elevated terrain where he could Outwit some key powers.

Also used a Rookie version though his greatest contribution (other than a bit of Outwit) was lending the Bat Ally team to V M'Onel.

earinfection
03/05/2007, 21:34
All I have to say is:

Yo CarlosMucha!!

Halo MADE IT!!!!!

Does this mean I'll get Gargoyle for the Defenders?

Wolverine_Hulk
03/05/2007, 22:03
Suicide is the some of the only healing and remember shadow theif will struggle if he faces his AE Hawkman.

Rurouni KJS
03/05/2007, 23:07
You missed it on the review of E Phantom Lady. With the ability to completely dodge attacks on every click, she's a near-perfect tie-up/distraction/sacrifice piece. That's worth more than 1 smiley!

Lofcutus
03/06/2007, 00:48
Thanks for the review in such short time. Though I must respectfully disagree with your assessment on both E Phantom Lady and R Halo. :classic:

I though they are both probably :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: in usefulness. They're both very adaptive and useful pieces that are good, but with many better options in the set.

I look forward to reading the rest of the set Primer.

biz567
03/06/2007, 00:50
When? By the time he has a 10AV he's lost Stealth and more than fair game for sniping. Still, I too favour the V but for constructed play only. Within the context of the Marquee the RE are more useful. Need to save points for the big guns.

Yes, but he can just put the hurting on to the figure that attacked him. That's if everything goes right!

tkwink
03/06/2007, 08:13
You missed it on the review of E Phantom Lady. With the ability to completely dodge attacks on every click, she's a near-perfect tie-up/distraction/sacrifice piece. That's worth more than 1 smiley!

I gotta agree here - despite having a ranged attack, she is clearly a tie-up brawler. Push her to her second click when adjacent to an opposing figure and watch her go to town - flurry with a 9 AV and 2 damage will mess up any figure with anything less than Invul and an 18 defense at close quarters couple with shape change means your opponent will be wasting actions trying to clock her. She's not amazing but she is certainly solid (and yet ethereal) for her points.

Buddyhoss
03/06/2007, 10:00
R Question + R M'onel = Game Over opponents :cool:

lunar
03/07/2007, 01:25
You gave E Damage only one star! Yeah she sucks, but the potential to pulse wave someone for 5 damage makes me want to play with her anyways.

Konmel
03/07/2007, 05:07
Just my two bits from the pre-release:

I didn't get much to work with from my packs. I did get two rookie Questions and was going to try to put both on my team, but finally opted to use one so I can work in more range. Exp Halo was my second range attacker and this proved huge (and since when does 8 range = short range value???), especially against numerous people that lacked range in this set.

I also threw in R Damage who proved to be quite a beast. In fact I played against teams with R and E Damage's and they always pulled their weight. When I knocked an E Damage to the last click, I was like "oh ####." Luckily I was able to outwit pulsewave with the Question. The Question's zero range did keep him in the back most of the time.

I used R Question, E Halo, and R Damage (in addition to R Mr. Miracle and E Wondergirl) and won all my games.

Ghost_Rider
03/07/2007, 10:47
You gave E Damage only one star! Yeah she sucks, but the potential to pulse wave someone for 5 damage makes me want to play with her anyways.

In the words of Austin Powers:

"Damage is a MAN, man."

lunar
03/07/2007, 15:28
In the words of Austin Powers:

"Damage is a MAN, man."

:nervous: Sorry, I know nothing about the character... nor the sculpt apparently.