HeroClix A to Z – Origin Marquee Primer: Part 2 - Uncommons

[AZS]

Origin Marquee Primer Review

We didn’t get to see all the figures in time for Prerelease, but now that that is passed, the remainder of the set has come to light.

The dials for this review are based on the Prerelease Reports thread. (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2552428) Unless the figures have officially been revealed on WK site.
I apologize in advance for any possible errors.

Here’s the review schedule:

Part 1 - Commons (http://http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=191911)
Part 2 – Uncommons
Part 3 – Rares (Wed)
Part 4 – Uniques (Thurs)
Part 5 – Cards & Special Objects (Fri)

These reviews are intended strictly for sealed, 300 point games with only this set.

Click ‘Read More…’ below for the full review.

[AZS]

Welcome to yet another Marquee Primer Review!

DC Origin takes us back with some real classic characters, new versions of old ones, and some other septuagenarians making their first appearance. This set also bolsters the ranks of the JSA significantly as well as giving us several new villains from the Injustice League and wildcard Calculator team members.
The set has a handful of super high power pieces and a good mix of low to mid level figs to even things out. There are a few pieces that really stand out, though surprisingly they aren’t named Batman or Superman, and aren’t necessarily Uniques either.

This review is for a 300 point, 3 booster Sealed event only.
Using a Smiley :) rating system.

:confused: – Steer clear of this figure.
:disappoin:disappoin – Not so good. Should be considered with caution.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: – Fair. Based on how you need to fill out a team.
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool: – Good. Definitely consider this figure.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: – Great! Should be a top choice for your team.

These figures are compared only within the Origin set, so there will be only a few 1 or 5 smiley ratings here.
So please realize that even though your favorite character might not have gotten five smileys like you think it should, I’m just trying to be fair.

Everything written here is in the most general form possible.
Since the specific combination of figures pulled will work together to determine which are more playable than others. This is particularly true due to the high number of cooperative team abilities, like; Sinister Syndicate, Defenders, and Wildcards.


Lastly, this review is just my opinion. And these are a lot of work to write, so I ask you very kindly, please don’t get angry at me for my ratings. I give reasonable explanations for each choice. If you disagree (and you are welcome to do so), please try to do the same.

Brief comment about Origin and things to look out for:

Once again we’re looking at a lot of high defenses and moderate attack values.
Yeah, there’s not the glut of 9 AV and 17 def we saw in Sinister, but with all the JSA and Wildcards in the set, you’re sure to be shooting at more 17’s than you might think just from looking at the stats. There’s also a bunch of 18’s and couple 19’s to deal with. So the more high AV’s you can get the better.

With that in mind, make sure to have at least a couple figures with 10 or better AV who have an average chance to hit a 17.

Also note that there are a handful of uber-powerful figs in the set capable of dealing 5 or 6 damage in one hit. Make sure your team (as a whole) can survive one fig getting clobbered.

That’s all on that, now (finally) on to the review!

Part 2: Uncommons

#037 R Animal Man
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 46
m-dolphina-normald-normalg-normal10916388152881527715267141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#038 E Animal Man
Team: JLA
Range: 0 /
Points: 59
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal99163991628815288152881527714177141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#039 V Animal Man
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 75
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal109173891639916289152881427814277132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Three versions have 3 mostly different dials, so make sure if you’re playing against him you know which one you’re facing.
The Rookie has some good attack ability for the cost. He has 3 damage or Incapacitate with Charge. Either one is able to hurt an Inv/Impervious figure. ES/D is somewhat counterintuitive on a close combat fig. CCE and EW later in the dial aren’t bad either.
For just 13 points more you get a vastly different piece with L/C, B/C/F, some charge, and a bunch of other abilities, including the JLA TA. He’s got a lot going for him for the cost, but not so much that he’s a must play.
The Vet has some good things going for him, including a consistent AV and some Regen to keep him alive. However, his starting AV of 9 is a little low for a 75 point fig, considering a lot of the high DV figs in the set.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#040 R Catman
Team: Batman Enemy
Range: 6 /
Points: 47
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal88162781517915279152691426813167121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#041 E Catman
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 /
Points: 37
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8916279151781517815178143671426000KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#042 V Catman
Team: Suicide Squad
Range: 4 /
Points: 64
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal810172691628916278152691526915261015158141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
The kitten of the litter is only a mediocre fig. He has some passable powers, but his best value comes from the Bat Enemy TA. He might not be great on his own, but paired with a Wild Card that has a higher TA and he suddenly gets much better. This could be a great TA to share among other wildcards as well, with the right pulls.
The Exp is actually the cheapest of the bunch – like Dr. Light – and his stats and powers follow suit. He’s not terrible for only 37 points, so if you’ve got a big gap to fill on your team he’s worth considering.
The Vet is supposed to represent the character made popular in the Secret Six mini-series, and has some strong traits. Charge and Blades is nice, as is a high defense and Willpower. But his dial has some empty spots that are a bit vulnerable and weak. The Suicide Squad TA will go a long way with any Wildcards you have.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#043 R Booster Gold
Team: JLA
Range: 8 /
Points: 46
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal98152981538715287142771426613166131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#044 E Booster Gold
Team: JLA
Range: 8 //
Points: 65
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal891528815210814298142871327713166121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#045 V Booster Gold
Team: N/A
Range: 10 /
Points: 80
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal109163891538101528914278132781326712256121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Like his Hypertime version, Booster starts off as a mostly glorified taxi thanks to the JLA TA and good movement. Barrier and Enhancement a few clicks in give him a little versatility too.
Thanks to Charge, the Exp gets a little more offensive ability. However, he only has super strength for a single click, so his ability do deal damage is limited. But with 2 targets and Incapacitate, he still has some potential.
The Vet actually steps up as a real strong piece for the cost. His mid dial upswing and PC in particular are nice assets, and his deep dial is good for the cost.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :disappoin:disappoin
V – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:


#046 R The All-New Atom
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 24
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal681816816158161581515714147131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#047 E Atom
Team: Teen Titans
Range: 0 /
Points: 52
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal691826917268172581715816147161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#048 V Atom
Team: JLA
Range: 0/
Points: 64
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal991826101916820168182581725716157151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Starting off, Atom is a good filler piece for a low cost. Between his high starting defense and second click Stealth he can be a good tie up piece or human shield. And he’s fairly long lived for his cost at 6 clicks.
The Exp is even better, and has some attack ability as well. At 52 points he’s not really as much of a throw away piece, but he still has his uses. One such good idea is use his Titans TA with a Wildcard to heal the WC of a push click and in doing so put Atom onto his Outwit click. Later on he gets Perplex and then more Outwit, so he’s an excellent utility piece.
The Vet is a little pricey for pure utility, but his steadily increasing Defense will make him a huge pain to take down. The thing to look out for though is that his best defense of 20 comes on the same click with 8 AV and CCE, so he’s meant to be a close combat attacker instead of support with Perplex and Outwit.
R – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#049 R Mirror Master
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 /
Points: 40
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89152781427813267131107121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#050 E Mirror Master
Team: Calculator
Range: 8 /
Points: 58
m-normal-transa-normald-normalg-normal891628915298152871627715177151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#051 V Mirror Master
Team: IL
Range: 8 //
Points: 88
m-normal-transa-normald-normalg-normal81016379163781526815287152107141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Mirror Master starts off as a pure harassment piece. Incap is his primary tool, and Shape Change offers his best defense. There’s not much more to him than that.
Going 2D on the Exp, he becomes a Transporter Wildcard, which has a ton of interesting implications for constructed play, but still depends largely on what else you pull here to make him good. He’s not outstanding on his own by any measure. Starting Smoke Cloud (?) doesn’t do anything for him, and his damage and AV aren’t special either.
It isn’t until the Vet that he really steps up with a respectable AV and good damage. This one is also a Transporter, but has good offense as well with 2 target incap. His defense is doubly annoying with Super Senses and Shape Change. He’s only 6 clicks deep for 88 points, so he’s in danger of getting pasted and KO’d in a single hit by some of the big guns, so you better hope his defense holds solid. The IL TA doesn’t help anything here either.
R – :disappoin:disappoin
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

#052 R Triplicate Girl
Team: Legion of Superheroe
Range: 0 /
Points: 35
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal8817298162971618815179142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#053 E Triplicate Girl
Team: LoSH
Range: 0 /
Points: 50
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal88172810172891627916168161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#054 V Triplicate Girl
Team: LOSH
Range: 0 /
Points: 65
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal881721091729101728101627916278151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Starting off with cheap Plasticity, good defense and a Wildcard TA for only 35 points is pretty spiffy. She doesn’t add much for offense, but tying up an opponent with Plasticity while giving her JSA teammates a 17 def has potential.
Swapping Flurry and Plas in her middle version changes her utility, but thanks to higher AV and Willpower on click 2, she has potential. Perplex on her later clicks can also be helpful later in the game.
She finishes out with more interesting options by starting with Perplex and having a dial that peaks in the middle, so she could be good to copy the Titans TA (if you get that) or just pushing or blocking LOS as a human shield. This version has some real potential for the cost. If you pull well to support her. She doesn’t add up to much by her lonesome.
R – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

#055 R Supergirl
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 /
Points: 140
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101018410917499173991639917388173881638815377152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#056 E Supergirl
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 10 /
Points: 192
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal10101741010183101018310917389173881638816389163710152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#057 V Supergirl
Team: LoSH
Range: 10 /
Points: 232
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1211185111017410111741010165810164109174109163981538715387153KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
One of the big powerhouses of the set, this is a figure to be on the lookout for. But, not necessarily in the rookie.
Her strengths include a consistently high defense, good damage, and a deep dial. Her drawback is in having a moderate AV for the cost, and Battle Fury for about half her dial. So she’s somewhat hit or miss in her usefulness.
The Exp is better, but she’s also pushing nearly 200 points. The Superman TA helps a lot, not only to see through stealth but also for helping her AV in general not suffer the hindering terrain modifier. She has a lot of damage dealing potential, and can more or less take a hit and keep going strong. She’ll be a tough call for the huge cost.
The Vet may not be such a difficult decision depending on what you pull to go with her. With the right support for her Wildcard TA she has the potential to be downright scary. (Pair her with Exp Atom to heal pushes and she’s a beast!)
Her AV isn’t great for the cost, but it is passable in this format. And she has tremendous damage dealing potential to devastate your opponents. Pushing her twice to get to her best click, means you’ll also be getting a lot of use out of her early on to really soften up your opponent’s team.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
V – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

#058 R Hawkman
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 /
Points: 59
AE Base: Shadow Thief (Orange)m-winga-normald-normalg-normal1010162991638916389153781527815277142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#059 E Hawkman
Team: JLA
Range: 04 /
Points: 90
AE Base: Shadow Thief (Orange)m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101117210101628101527916379163881536815367142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#060 V Hawkman
Team: JSA
Range: 0 /
Points: 135
AE Base: Shadow Thief (Orange)m-winga-normald-normalg-normal10121741011174101117391016291016289163891527915278142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Hawkman has a lot of potential for constructed JSA teams, but in sealed he’s a bit of a question mark. His rookie is a cheap secondary attacker for only 59 points, but will charging in for only 2 damage really do much for you? ES/D goes contrary to his close combat design, so he might take some lumps, but he’s good for a large part of his dial, so he will hold his own, just not necessarily against Inv/Impervious figs.
The Exp is similarly restricted with Charge and CCE, but his high AV might be key to taking out high defense JSA opponents. A deep dial and consistent AV go a long way.
The vet is a straight up monster and is basically awesome for the points. The key will be in protecting him while getting him into position to take on the other big bruisers in the set. The JSA TA may help with that. And 2 clicks of Regen at the end only make him even better.
Marquee aside, the Vet Hawkman is going to be one of the highly sought after pieces in this set.
R – :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
E – :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:
V – :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


That’s it for today. Check back tomorrow for the Rares; Wonder Girl through Martian Manunter.

[MattPetersen]

Once again an AWESOME review!!
Pretty much agree with everything said!
Thanks a bundle. :laugh:

[absolutvt69]

Awesome guide as always. I was very impressed/surprised by V Triplicate Girl at the pre-release. I initially threw her on my team simply for the Wildcard and Perplex but she actually proved to be a very versatile piece as a secondary attacker, taxi, shield, tie up, etc.

[T'Chaka]

Others may not, but I absolutely agree with you on the vet Booster Gold!

[jiggle_billy]

i thought that people reported rookie atom having hss on his first click and not leap/climb?

[Buddyhoss]

The rookie atom's first click looks like Hypersonic, not L/C, and that's the way we ruled it at our Prerelease. Has there been an official word on that yet?

[Miraclo]

The set continues to look interesting, as does the primer.

Through the uncommons and we've only had 4 to reach the top recommendation -- half of them being Wildcat. I'm going to be very interested to see how many of the rares and uniques end up getting high recommendations.

That the thread's a magnet for pre-release battle reports really helps, too.

[absolutvt69]

The rookie atom's first click looks like Hypersonic, not L/C, and that's the way we ruled it at our Prerelease. Has there been an official word on that yet?

I have one and it definitely LOOKS like HSS. It's brown not orange, that's for sure. Same w/ Halo and her opening click. WK site says EE but it looks like Poison and that's how we played it. If the Atom doesn't have HSS it will have to be errated b/c that's what most people will think it is.

[pimpzilla]

I have one and it definitely LOOKS like HSS. It's brown not orange, that's for sure. Same w/ Halo and her opening click. WK site says EE but it looks like Poison and that's how we played it. If the Atom doesn't have HSS it will have to be errated b/c that's what most people will think it is.
Agreed on both. It is not a color error, they are HSS and Poison colors. Love these reveiws and I always tell my players to read them if they get a chance.

Phil

[St. Cuthbert]

Others may not, but I absolutely agree with you on the vet Booster Gold!

Yeah, I'm one of those "others." What makes you think V Booster Gold is worthy of :cool: ?

When I look at him, I see a figure that starts off fairly strong but whose defense value drops fast and whose attack isn't that great either.

But I'm probably missing something.

Great review overall, Azs!

[AZS]

The rookie atom's first click looks like Hypersonic, not L/C, and that's the way we ruled it at our Prerelease. Has there been an official word on that yet?All the info *I* have indicates that it is meant to be Leap/Climb on his first click.
Note that this is not official. And it would certainly be nice if WK could get around to making an official announcement about this and any other misprints (like U Blue Beetle having the flight symbol but no flight stand) before the Marquees start this week.

As for my thoughts on L/C vs HSS; it is clearly a brown color, but with a black number. I think its easier in the manufacturing process for them to accidentally darken Orange -> Brown (making L/C look like HSS) than it would be to accidentally print a black number where a white one is supposed to be. But that's not the only thing I'm working from.

[ack]

There was me and another guy who used rookie atom (as HSS ) at our pre-release and both of use were calling him our M.V.P.
One thing though my rookie halo has ee no doubt but e mano has the same colour as atom's hss on his first attack and he has no range and I have never seen a comic with him where he used anything like tk.:laugh:

On topic these reviews are great keep them coming thanks.

[Rurouni KJS]

the color errors on Halo and Atom are supposed to be orange for EE and L/C, respectively. That's how we played it. The black numbers are the real tip-off, as they'd be in reverse white on a true brown-colored slot.

As for the reviews, I'd drop a smiley off EV Hawkman.

[Rurouni KJS]

There was me and another guy who used rookie atom (as HSS ) at our pre-release and both of use were calling him our M.V.P.
One thing though my rookie halo has ee no doubt but e mano has the same colour as atom's hss on his first attack

But is the number black or white? On correct brown power slots (like Poison), the number would be white, not black like on R Atom's.

[Ghost_Rider]

I agree for the most part, with a few minor nitpicks:

Booster Gold - I think he was overrated. Yeah he has a deep dial and a nice PC filling, but his defense is really low making him such a juicy target. Personally I don't see how this figure got a higher rating than Catman.

Supergirl R - Huh? Look at all the color on her dial and look at that amazing defense. Her attack value might not be stellar, but she definitely makes up for that shortcoming with all those powers. And with six clicks of Flurry, who cares if her attack is average?

Catman - I think this one is being underestimated. Yes, he has a dead spot or two, but he also does have a few amazing clicks - especially the first one that can do a lot of damage with BCF and not worry about pushing with Willpower. Plus the Suicide Squad is exceptionally useful in a set full of wildcards.

Those are my only real complaints, but otherwise the rest was spot on.

[jiggle_billy]

As for my thoughts on L/C vs HSS; it is clearly a brown color, but with a black number. I think its easier in the manufacturing process for them to accidentally darken Orange -> Brown (making L/C look like HSS) than it would be to accidentally print a black number where a white one is supposed to be. But that's not the only thing I'm working from.

my king hyperion has black numbering on his impervious click, i also have a few clicks with black numbering on their willpower slots

[StormCrawler]

Again a cool and interesting read, although I don't agree with quite some ratings.

[DOOM's Medic]

But is the number black or white? On correct brown power slots (like Poison), the number would be white, not black like on R Atom's.

My Exp Tomar Re starts off with a damage slot that is brown with a black number.

Are you suggesting that I should consider that it is ment to be Battle Fury instead of Perplex? :ermm: :confused:

[tidge]

I think Vet Atom deserves a lil more credit: I was lucky enough to pull TWO at the PR, and fielded both. The Perplex was crucial to my ability to hit opponents, and had my last opponent actually hit the Atom with his HSS attacker, that Atom would have been on Outwit and that game would have likely ended in 3 turns.

Its really the depth of dial that makes that piece shine, IMO. I found that bein able to determine when I sent the Atom into close-combat really allowed me to control the flow of a game. The key was to eliminate HSS forcing (based) opponents to have to attack Atom.

I faced the Mirror Master transporters: they were very nasty.

My own opinion based on my PR games: Ranged attacks still trump close-combat attacks, despite the map and the high defenses.

[batfink]

From a comic book standpoint it makes absoultely no sense for Atom to have HHS.

[absolutvt69]

There was me and another guy who used rookie atom (as HSS ) at our pre-release and both of use were calling him our M.V.P.
One thing though my rookie halo has ee no doubt but e mano has the same colour as atom's hss on his first attack and he has no range and I have never seen a comic with him where he used anything like tk.:laugh:

On topic these reviews are great keep them coming thanks.

The V Halo is the one that appears to have poison on her first click.

[TheFreak]

I completely disagree with your assessment of E Supergirl. I played her last night, and after she got three clicks in, her 18 Defense Invulnerable made her UNSTOPPABLE. She couldn't be hit. Drop her in some terrain, and there was PLENTY of it on the Origin map, and she's a beater, no ifs, ands, or buts. And toss in at the same time 3 damage with RCE?? and still a nice 10 Attack? fuggedabouit

I'm going to be honest, alot of times, I've treated these primers like I treat movie reviews. If the reviewer LIKED the movie (Brokeback Mountain?) I won't go see it. If they hated it (Wild Wild West) more than likely I'm gonna enjoy myself. I know if I pull me an E Supergirl, she'll be on my team, giving me the 'W'

[Zeiram]

batfink:

1) All-New Atom has that rocket wand thing.
2) Atoms have commonly travelled through phone lines.

I still think it is meant to be Leap/Climb given the cost, though.

[anonym0use]

My 2 cents:

I think HSS can easily represent the Atom growing and shrinking real fast -
bypassing opponents and being able to get a hit in - then shrinking and backing off.

Also, an opening 6 move, doesn't seem to jive with L/C, but makes more sense given the HSS.


batfink:

1) All-New Atom has that rocket wand thing.
2) Atoms have commonly travelled through phone lines.

I still think it is meant to be Leap/Climb given the cost, though.

[AZS]

I think Vet Atom deserves a lil more credit: I was lucky enough to pull TWO at the PR, and fielded both. The Perplex was crucial to my ability to hit opponents, and had my last opponent actually hit the Atom with his HSS attacker, that Atom would have been on Outwit and that game would have likely ended in 3 turns. I too pulled and played a V Atom in the PR, and he did a lot of good for my team. But it was almost entirely in a support / tie-up role. 64 points for a very good support piece is, to me, an average rating. He's good, but I won't suggest people should play him, particularly if its the difference between adding some support or boosting your lacking attack ability.
He worked well for me because I had R Mon-El, so I had plenty of room for him.
Had I pulled a V Steel or some other high cost fig, I would have had to think twice. That's exactly what 3 smilies means - 'Good, but check all your options.'

[malakim2099]

My Exp Tomar Re starts off with a damage slot that is brown with a black number.

Are you suggesting that I should consider that it is ment to be Battle Fury instead of Perplex? :ermm: :confused:

Yes, he has Battle Fury, and King Hyperion has opening slot Toughness. Don't you know anything? :p

I'm sticking with the low grade HSS/Poison, until we have something confirmed by WK.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

What makes sense for Atom is phasing+charge. That can't exist, so HSS could be meant to be an approximation (just as Battle Fury just means a character attacking with no range, not that activation click characters are all berserk.

[2Face]

I would love to pull R Booster Gold at the Marquee. There is only one flier in Origin that is cheaper (R Triplicate Girl). GL/Sentinel is the only other figure that has barrier. Having Barrier on the JSA Museum map could be huge.

[Monkey Joe]

Yay, the Primers have arrived. Thanks again AZS.

Vet Hawkman is great. My Mr. Mind MC'ed him and I was able to do 6 clicks to Jakeem:p .

[AZS]

RE: Rookie Atom.
We can discuss this all we want, and give all the justifications you like,
but the info I have says L/C. And until WK offically says something its all speculation anyway.

[elfholme]

RE: Rookie Atom.
We can discuss this all we want, and give all the justifications you like,
but the info I have says L/C. And until WK offically says something its all speculation anyway.

No offense, but wouldn't it be best, without an officlal ruling to the contrary, to go with what is actually printed on the dial? Going with what is printed on the dial is NOT speculation...it's going with what's printed. Calling the power something else based on unofficlal info an conjectures about black numbering on a brown background is definitely speculation, however.

I'm assuming the HSS represents him traveling through phone lines, which he does all the time in the comics. It makes more sense than Leap/Climb from a comic standpoint (IMO).

Other than the "errata speculation", I have loved the reviews so far. There are a couple I'd have put higher (V Question from the Commons review for one), and a couple I might put lower (Supergirl V in this format is risky so I'd drop her a smiley), but overall good work as always.

[sengirv]

No offense, but wouldn't it be best, without an officlal ruling to the contrary, to go with what is actually printed on the dial? Going with what is printed on the dial is NOT speculation...it's going with what's printed. Calling the power something else based on unofficlal info an conjectures about black numbering on a brown background is definitely speculation, however.

I'll second that. As malakim2099 pointed out, my King Hyperion has HSS and IMP on his opening click. The HSS has a white number, the IMP has a black number. So it's not as cut and dry as others would have you believe.

[AZS]

No offense, but wouldn't it be best, without an officlal ruling to the contrary, to go with what is actually printed on the dial?Six of one, half dozen of the other.
Where you think you see HSS due to the color, I think I see L/C due to the number.
What is 'obvious' to some, is not the same to all.

Plus, at the pre-release I went to, nbperp made a spot judgement call that it was L/C. (I am *not* claiming that is his official ruling.) So its not as cut and dry as you may think.
And my final thought is that if there can be a fig with HSS (even for 1 click) for 24 points, there's something seriously wrong with the design and/or point formula. (Which I do not think is the case.)

[Mr. Pilkington]

I'll second that. As malakim2099 pointed out, my King Hyperion has HSS and IMP on his opening click. The HSS has a white number, the IMP has a black number. So it's not as cut and dry as others would have you believe.

Yes, King Hyperion is a case of a misprinting, potentially with the same printing difference. But it is a misprinting. He should have a white number. In his case the color printing was correct. In other misprinting cases the color is not correct. Another misprinted figure showing the same color pattern does not decide anything for this figure. We need official errata to be sure of what the mistake in this case was.

I would err on the side of L/C myself, if only for the point cost. 6 clicks of life with an opening HSS click and other powers scattered on the dial should not be in the 24 point range. According to the Units search the cheapest HSS figures are 36 points. R Whizzer is a good example. 5 clicks of life, opening HSS for a click, other scattered powers and a TA. Now, R Atom doesn't have the TA to eat up points, but he does have an entire extra click of life and only costs 2/3 as many points. On the other hand, L/C appears on many figures in that point range and below.

[Par2ch]

Rookie Supergirl and vet Animal Master kept me 4-0 against the likes of vet Hawkman and Shazam....flurry is key on a map such as the JSA and Prison since range is bassically useless...

Rookie Supergirl is at leat 4 stars...

[elfholme]

Yes, King Hyperion is a case of a misprinting, potentially with the same printing difference. But it is a misprinting. He should have a white number. In his case the color printing was correct. In other misprinting cases the color is not correct. Another misprinted figure showing the same color pattern does not decide anything for this figure. We need official errata to be sure of what the mistake in this case was.


This I agree with. There's a question about the power and whether it is correct. And we need an errata to tell us which way we're supposed to play it.



I would err on the side of L/C myself, if only for the point cost.

This makes absolutely NO sense to me. It's a bad precedent to set for the community to just decide to change a dial from what is printed to what we "think it should be". A dial should be played as printed (and background color is what we're supposed to go with, not number color), until WK releases an errata changing the way we're to play it.

You may be right and it may be intended to be L/C, but I'm playing it as 6-move HSS until it's errata'ed. I've seen too many games ruined by players second-guessing the folks that make the rules to think it's a good idea to 'assume' changes into the game. The default position should always be to play what is printed.

[dariusq]

Awesome guide as always. I was very impressed/surprised by V Triplicate Girl at the pre-release. I initially threw her on my team simply for the Wildcard and Perplex but she actually proved to be a very versatile piece as a secondary attacker, taxi, shield, tie up, etc.

I can't wait to team Triplicate Girl up with my army of Multiple Men. What an army it will be.

[Sigdr]

I would err on the side of L/C myself, if only for the point cost. 6 clicks of life with an opening HSS click and other powers scattered on the dial should not be in the 24 point range. According to the Units search the cheapest HSS figures are 36 points. R Whizzer is a good example. 5 clicks of life, opening HSS for a click, other scattered powers and a TA. Now, R Atom doesn't have the TA to eat up points, but he does have an entire extra click of life and only costs 2/3 as many points. On the other hand, L/C appears on many figures in that point range and below.

I doubt that. 6 speed HSS isn't really that powerful, and as such shouldn't cost a whole lot...

[Mr. Pilkington]

This makes absolutely NO sense to me. It's a bad precedent to set for the community to just decide to change a dial from what is printed to what we "think it should be". A dial should be played as printed (and background color is what we're supposed to go with, not number color), until WK releases an errata changing the way we're to play it.

Speaking as a former Judge for multiple years, this is not the first time printing errors have come up without timely errata. It is up to the Judge to make the ruling at the individual venue when no official answer is available. Playing "as printed" does not always work, particularly for figures where the number should be white and the color box is absent, thus leaving a blank white field. How do you play these "as printed"? It requires a judgement from the Judge. I feel that all misprints require an announced judgement before the tournament starts. Within that I also feel that it is part of the Judge's job to make said decisions fair and to try to keep them in line with past conventions and precedents. Sometimes this can be difficult in light of the official rulings (like Submerged) but for the most part you can follow with "what makes sense". And as long as the Judge is consistent everything is fine.

You may be right and it may be intended to be L/C, but I'm playing it as 6-move HSS until it's errata'ed.

Actually, you'll play whatever your Judge rules it to be. You might recommend that it be "played as printed", but ultimately it is up to the venue's Judge. If we are talking about casual games you are of course free to play however you like.

I still maintain that there is no "as printed" value, by the PAC, of brown with black numbering. The PAC clearly shows a white "x" in the box for the brown colored powers. Splitting hairs? You may think so. But in my opinion you are already making assumptions and judgements with your "play as printed" approach in this case. Anytime that you might find yourself starting to answer with "oh come on, you know what they mean" about a printing error means assumptions are being made.

[Mr. Pilkington]

I can't wait to team Triplicate Girl up with my army of Multiple Men. What an army it will be.

You could even use them as Indy stand-ins for Dupli-Kate and Multi-Paul from Invincible (although Kate shouldn't really fly on her own IIRC).

[Ghost_Rider]

And my final thought is that if there can be a fig with HSS (even for 1 click) for 24 points, there's something seriously wrong with the design and/or point formula. (Which I do not think is the case.)

I don't agree with this statement. I definitely can see a figure having hypersonic speed for one click for this price, especially since his speed and damage is so low.

Not trying to start an uproar here, as I do think that he's probably supposed to have L/C over HS. However, I don't like using the argument that it's supposed to be L/C because a figure would not be designed this cheap otherwise. I think it is a very likely possibility when you can only move six squares.

[Pashmina]

I really thin kAtom has HSS! I read about the new one, and it said he rides around on a little vehice (not enough to justify transporter M and A maybe, but enough to get low speed HSS) and can go at sub-atomic speeds or something.

[Mr. Pilkington]

I don't agree with this statement. I definitely can see a figure having hypersonic speed for one click for this price, especially since his speed and damage is so low.

Again I'd point to R Whizzer, who only has an 8 movement on his single, opening HSS click. Without knowing the formula it is all conjecture, but it is my bet that Atom can't get an extra click of life for 2/3 the cost by dropping the TA and 2 points of movement (and yes, their other powers and combat values aren't exactly the same, but it is hard to say which would be more expensive point-wise). Of course, I could be wrong. It happens all the time (but never ceases to amaze me every time nonetheless ;)).

The safest approach would be to ask your Judge before the opening starts at the Marquee. Get a ruling before anyone has a chance to pull him so that no one feels like they got "nerfed" by the ruling (i.e. the Judge doesn't know Billy has one and thus can't decide to specifically not let Billy have HSS, etc.).

[Wolverine_Hulk]

Great review!!!

[GroovyBoy]

You may be right and it may be intended to be L/C, but I'm playing it as 6-move HSS until it's errata'ed. I've seen too many games ruined by players second-guessing the folks that make the rules to think it's a good idea to 'assume' changes into the game. The default position should always be to play what is printed.

I think what some people are saying is that since the number is printed black instead of white, they are playing it as printed by calling it L/C, since if it were HSS, the number would be white. Both sides are looking at the color on the dial, they're just looking at different colors...

[Ghost_Rider]

Again I'd point to R Whizzer, who only has an 8 movement on his single, opening HSS click. Without knowing the formula it is all conjecture, but it is my bet that Atom can't get an extra click of life for 2/3 the cost by dropping the TA and 2 points of movement (and yes, their other powers and combat values aren't exactly the same, but it is hard to say which would be more expensive point-wise). Of course, I could be wrong. It happens all the time (but never ceases to amaze me every time nonetheless ;)).

The safest approach would be to ask your Judge before the opening starts at the Marquee. Get a ruling before anyone has a chance to pull him so that no one feels like they got "nerfed" by the ruling (i.e. the Judge doesn't know Billy has one and thus can't decide to specifically not let Billy have HSS, etc.).

But you still can't really compare Atom to the Whizzer because Atom only starts with 1 damage. That makes a big difference in his usefulness, and when you factor that in with his low speed, HS doesn't seem out of the question anymore. That's all I'm saying.

Now if he had 8 speed and 2 damage, and was still 24 points, THEN I would say that there's no possibility that he has HS. But right now, I could see reasons for either way, even though I'm still leaning towards L/C.

[dernjg]

/agree on all things in the review, including the Atom having L/C.
Sorry, but those wanting to see HSS there are really getting wishfull thinking off of a bad batch of ink. There's a slew of orange powers that didn't come out clean (V Halo was mentioned, and WizKids has already released that to be orange EE).
The first strike against it being a brown power is that it has black text, the standard for an orange power. Since so many of us have clix in the 1000s, yes, some of us are going to have examples where this wasn't the case. For that matter, I have a Riddler with support and barrier.
The second strike against it being brown is that all the confirmed brown spots of ink are in different tints - that's not the WizKids brown on Atom.
The third strike will come when the gallery finally updates. In other words, maybe two weeks before Avengers comes out.

[elfholme]

Speaking as a former Judge for multiple years, this is not the first time printing errors have come up without timely errata. It is up to the Judge to make the ruling at the individual venue when no official answer is available. Playing "as printed" does not always work, particularly for figures where the number should be white and the color box is absent, thus leaving a blank white field. How do you play these "as printed"? It requires a judgement from the Judge. I feel that all misprints require an announced judgement before the tournament starts. Within that I also feel that it is part of the Judge's job to make said decisions fair and to try to keep them in line with past conventions and precedents. Sometimes this can be difficult in light of the official rulings (like Submerged) but for the most part you can follow with "what makes sense". And as long as the Judge is consistent everything is fine.


Speaking back as a fellow former Judge for multiple years, I can safely say that there is a difference between obvious misprints that make a character unplayable (like missing numbers) and something that many people are just assuming is a misprint.



Actually, you'll play whatever your Judge rules it to be.


Actually, since I'm not a child, I'll play Heroclix how I want, thanks. If I'm playing at a venue and the judge made the houserule on Atom that you folks are suggesting, I'd swap him out for another character. If that wasn't allowed for some reason, I'd leave and play somewhere else. The judge at my venue is a pretty reasonable fellow though (not likely to make a change to a character's dial without an official ruling telling him to do so), so I don't really expect it would be a problem.



I still maintain that there is no "as printed" value, by the PAC, of brown with black numbering. The PAC clearly shows a white "x" in the box for the brown colored powers. Splitting hairs? You may think so. But in my opinion you are already making assumptions and judgements with your "play as printed" approach in this case. Anytime that you might find yourself starting to answer with "oh come on, you know what they mean" about a printing error means assumptions are being made.

That argument might carry a whole lot more weight if we didn't already have figures that violate the number colors listed in the PAC.

I never said "you know what they mean"...in fact I assume you DON'T know what they mean...and I even went so far as to say that I don't know what they mean (my "you may be right" comment earlier). But in my experience as a former judge for this game (as well as a current tournament organizer for other games), the best course if you are unsure about a rule is to play it as printed (and rule it as printed, if you are the judge).

And IMO the most reasonable "as printed" ruling is HSS in this case. Look at it this way - if you are attempting to go by the number color, there are 7 different movement powers that have black numbering...which means that EVEN IF the number color is the determinant for power type, any movement power you pick because of black lettering only has a 1/7 chance of being correct. OTOH there's only one movement type with a brown background. So if background is the determinant for power type, then you're 100% likely to be picking the right power by sticking with HSS.

To rule that the movement power should be Leap/Climb, a judge has to decide both that there is an error and then decide which of the black lettered powers "fits the character best" (or make assumptions about possible flaws in the production process, which most of us know nothing about). To rule that the movement power should be HSS, a judge just has to decide that there is a number color issue (as has happened before with at least one other HSS-er). It's a safer call. And as a judge, my responsibility should be to make the best call possible.

But hey, that's just my opinion...y'all play it however you want to. You may get lucky and be right. I don't much care which it is (I've just been arguing for what IMO is the most reasonable approach to making a ruling...I have no personal invenstment in HSS or L/C for Atom), and I'll be happy when WK makes a ruling. But for now I'll be playing it as HSS. And when WK makes a ruling, that's how I'll play it, whichever way they go.

[Mr. Pilkington]

Speaking back as a fellow former Judge for multiple years, I can safely say that there is a difference between obvious misprints that make a character unplayable (like missing numbers) and something that many people are just assuming is a misprint.

I agree that some misprints are less playable that others (my example was the extreme), but it is clear that there is a printing error here regardless of how "bad" it might be. In that case a judgement is required either way. You feel the correct judgement for now is HSS. I feel that it is L/C. As long as an individual venue is consistent with its ruling it doesn't matter which they choose. This entire discussion is over what we as individuals think is the proper interpretation of the misprinted dial. It's a case where we can decide in opposite ways and both be correct until official errata is released to lay it to rest.


Actually, since I'm not a child, I'll play Heroclix how I want, thanks.

I'm not sure what being a child or not has to do with anything. If you play in a Wizkids sanctioned event you play by the rules and rulings set by the Judge at the venue. Plain and simple. You may agree with the rulings otr not, but you follow them if you want to play in that event. If you choose to not field a character based on the ruling you are still playing by the ruling. And like I said, how you play in casual games is definitely up to you (and your opponent of course). My point was just that regardless of how we may individually feel on the issue it will be up to the local Judge to rule it. Should you be a Judge you are free to rule it how you see fit (although you won't be playing in your own event). *shrug*

That argument might carry a whole lot more weight if we didn't already have figures that violate the number colors listed in the PAC.

I maintain that each of those is a misprint in their own right and should have appropriate errata.

I never said "you know what they mean"

My apologies if you felt I was trying to put words in your mouth. That was not my intention. Upon reading your explanation of why you feel HSS is the safest ruling I can see where you are coming from. I most likely would not use it, but I understand where it came from.

I don't much care which it is (I've just been arguing for what IMO is the most reasonable approach to making a ruling...I have no personal invenstment in HSS or L/C for Atom), and I'll be happy when WK makes a ruling.

On this I think we can both fully agree. I understand your position and fully agree with the fact that it is a valid interpretation. It happens to not be the interpretation I would use personally, but that doesn't diminish it in any way. I respectfully to agree to disagree on this.

Now we just need Wizkids to come out and rule that it is actually Mind Control and we can all start scratching our heads again. ;)

[biz567]

Sweet article! I hope I pull a V Supergirl!:)

But it probably won't happen.:(

But anyway, I agree with almost everything....except on V Booster Gold. His damage is good in the begining, but his AV drops to fast, and the PC is cool, but he's 85 points, so I'm not sure.

Anyway, great review! Makes me sad I can't make the marquee.

[elfholme]

I'm not sure what being a child or not has to do with anything. If you play in a Wizkids sanctioned event you play by the rules and rulings set by the Judge at the venue. Plain and simple.


Sure. But I never said I would try to do otherwise. The statement "Actually you will..." seemed like it should have been followed with "...and like it!", or at least "Rawr!" ;) I'm not a kid. I'm not trying to butt heads with my local judge (I actually like the judge that took over the venue I used to run WK events at ;)), and I realize what playing in a venue means.



Now we just need Wizkids to come out and rule that it is actually Mind Control and we can all start scratching our heads again. ;)

I fully expect something like that to happen. ;)

And if they rule it that way, that's the way I'll play him. Where'd I put my magic markers... :)

[SpaceGhost]

From my games at the prerelease, I would defiantly say that the Vet Atom is one of the best figures in the set. After my Vet Green Lantern died in one turn, that 20 D with 3 damage in close combat was critical (to prolong the game a few more turns...)

[SpaceGhost]

RE: Rookie Atom.
We can discuss this all we want, and give all the justifications you like,
but the info I have says L/C. And until WK officially says something its all speculation anyway.

Besides, at our pre-release we had the Rules Arb assisting with the event!
So here's a big fat humor intended raspberry to chew on! :-pppppppp
;)

[Almighty Liminator]

makes me regret not playing some of the pieces from the prerelease.

[archaon02]

I think what some people are saying is that since the number is printed black instead of white, they are playing it as printed by calling it L/C, since if it were HSS, the number would be white. Both sides are looking at the color on the dial, they're just looking at different colors...

I ask this somewhat facetiously, but here goes.

Where on the PAC does it mention the color the numbers are printed in?

[Kirby]

I need two R All-New Atom's... One for me, one to give to Gail at Emerald City Comic Con :grin:

[Lofcutus]

I gotta tell you, you're way off on your rating for V Hawkman, I think he should be ranked:

:devious: :devious: :devious: :devious: :devious: :devious: :devious: :devious: (Massive bad mamma-jamma!)

:laugh:

[scottthoude]

It is amazing as I read the forward before the information I thought to my self "Self why would you need such a disclaimer" I forgot this is HC Realms and if any forum can complain after being given a gift of a strategy guide it is this one. I apreciate your work AZS and look forwar to each intallment.

[AZS]

It is amazing as I read the forward before the information I thought to my self "Self why would you need such a disclaimer" I forgot this is HC Realms and if any forum can complain after being given a gift of a strategy guide it is this one. I apreciate your work AZS and look forwar to each intallment.Thanks a lot Scott!
But clearly nobody reads the lead-in, or else someone would have pointed out that when I copied the intro over from the Supernova primer I forgot to update the team abilities to DC. :noid:

Everything written here is in the most general form possible.
Since the specific combination of figures pulled will work together to determine which are more playable than others. This is particularly true due to the high number of cooperative team abilities, like; Sinister Syndicate, Defenders, and Wildcards. :nervous:

[Mon_ami]

That was a great review AZS, thanks alot.

Can't wait till tomorrow when you hit up the big dawgs.

[Mr. Pilkington]

But clearly nobody reads the lead-in, or else someone would have pointed out that when I copied the intro over from the Supernova primer I forgot to update the team abilities to DC.

Man, I never read the disclaimers anymore. I figure I've been here long enough to give you grief when I feel like it... ;)

[Ville]

Excellent review! We are being spoiled!

In my humble opinion, exp Supergirl is the best pull from this lot. Running Shot, 10 range and SA TA can give anyone a huge edge in a sealed game. Veteran is not too shabby either, but Running Shot seems to be a superior power compared to Charge.

Veteran Hawkman comes close second. It is just impossible to ignore that 12 attack: a melee monster with moderate cost.

[Wolverine_Hulk]

AZS is correct with "The All New Atom" because on Wizkids' website he has leap/climb.

[scholarx]

Thanks alot for the reviews, AZS, always appreciated. I was wondering, on one rating though, whether you might have made a minor mistake:

The Exp (Atom) is even better, and has some attack ability as well....
R – 4
E – 3 (?)
Since you started off by saying the e. is 'even better' than the r., did you mean to rate e. Atom as a 4 as well? Just curious.

[Sigdr]

AZS is correct with "The All New Atom" because on Wizkids' website he has leap/climb.

I may be wrong, but isn't the dial supposed to override the site in case of conflict?

[Mr. Pilkington]

I may be wrong, but isn't the dial supposed to override the site in case of conflict?

In general the dial does override the site in cases of a conflict. This is because it can be easy to get the wrong color coded into the dial on the site. Unfortunately in this case we have a misprint on the dial. So we have a dial that *maybe* is saying HSS, and a web site (which can be prone to errors) saying L/C. We are still left in the position of needing official errata. The web site dial doesn't "prove" that it is L/C, although it may indicate what the designers planned.

Yay continued ambiguity!

[AZS]

People are going to cling to the HSS possiblity to the death.

Given that it could go either way (though more evidence pointed to L/C), and there is potential evidence for either power, it would seem to most logical people that the posting of L/C on WK website would be confirmation that it is supposed to be Orange (with a black number).
But until god himself comes down and decries it orange, some people will keep saying "Yeah, but..."

[exiled_captain]

awesome job.