Critical Hit Volume 2 Issue 1 [Archive]

rock810

03/20/2007, 10:09

PLEASE BE PATIENT IF YOU HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE EMAIL. I HAVE 2000 to send out and can only send out 400-500 at a time and only 1800 per day. I will be going to bed at 11:30 and will have 1300 to send out. I will finish tomorrow morning. Please bare with me. If you REALLY want the info it is linked at the bottom. Thank you for reading.

DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION WITHIN CRITICAL HIT IS BASED ON PERSONAL POINT OF VIEW AND EXPERIENCE. PLEASE LIMIT PITCHFORKS AND TORCHES.

Dear Readers,

Welcome back to another addition of CRITICAL HIT MAGAZINE. We break into our second year of the magazine bigger and better than ever. This month’s addition is very special as WizKids has included us in the big announcement for their 5th Year Celebration of Heroclix. Now let me tell you this is a BIG year for Heroclix and a bigger year for WizKids. Things are looking great them as they give us a new generation of Heroclix, Horrorclix, Halo, Pirates, and Star Wars Pocket Model. It is an exciting year to be a gamer.

Once again we have some dowloadable options for everyone to have fun with. I have included these as links to save room for the HUGE magazine this month.

ORIGIN CHECKLIST (http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/ OriginChecklist_1page.pdf)

ORIGIN CHECKLIST EXCEL (http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/Origin_One_sheet(1).xls)

PREDATOR CHEAT SHEET EXCEL (http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/PREDATOR_SET.xls)

CTHULU CHEAT SHEET (http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/Cthuhlu_Cheatsheet.xls)

THE LAB CHEAT SHEET (http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/THE_LAB_CHEATSHEET(1).xls)

We are still looking at expanding the magazine so we need writers to join the team. Or if you have a free moment and you know your heroclix any help is appreciated. ALSO, we are looking to expand and I NEED writers who know Star Wars, D&D Minis, Mechwarrior, Horrorclix, Battlestar, Pirates, Dreamblade, VS, and any other games you think you might like to write about. We are looking to give those bigger magazines some REAL competition.

If you are interested in adding or doing something for the magazine please email me at [email protected]

As always we are open to criticism and your thoughts on the magazine. Please go to HCREALMS and look for the Critical Hit post on the front page. We will also be holding a RANT IN THE CHAT on Wednesday at 10:00 PM EST in HCREALMS ventrillo. I hope to see you there.

Sincerely

William Rock

DOWNLOAD CRITICAL HIT MAGAZINE VOLUME 2 ISSUE 1 (http://www.hcrealms.com/CriticalHit/CriticalHit.2.1.pdf)

hellbait

03/20/2007, 22:06

cant wait to read!

JackAssterson

03/20/2007, 22:08

Hey, I was close with the booster boxes!

thele

03/20/2007, 22:09

Hello, this is The Le (pronounced Tay Lee). I did the layout and imaging for Critical Hit. I hope you enjoyed reading this mag as much as we enjoyed putting it together!

~Le

tidge

03/20/2007, 22:13

I guess I can claim "I called it" (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2475751&highlight=starro#post2475751) on the JLA Starro "Heralds"!

I'll only partially claim the "increased price for more cardboard" (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2609859&highlight=msrp#post2609859), since there will be a fifth figure in the box.

XocgX

03/20/2007, 22:15

HOLY COW !! So basically 2 more bucks per pack (25%) for 25% more product that will be BETTER and have MORE items in it????

WOWOWOWOWOW!!!

Michael Kell

03/20/2007, 22:19

As far as I go it was well worth staying up until now. Good call, Rock, this is really great news. I like the idea of the one unique power per figure, I like the different sculpts idea, price increase is justified, I'm meh on the chase figures but that is pretty much all I don't like.

Good news with the 2 big events. Here is hoping Europe can participate.

Bloodsword

03/20/2007, 22:19

Unsure if I like the Character cards yet. I do like the fact they can put "Unique" poers per figure with the "white" power. Ill get used t it I guess.
The change ot the REV system will take getting used to as well.

MoffProulx

03/20/2007, 22:20

All I can say is WOW! Starro! I'm not sure how I feel about WK getting rid of the color rings, but the other things they are doing may make up for it!

PMMJ

03/20/2007, 22:20

...

Wizkids, I'm giving you two more expansions, to see how this pans out, and to see how much it costs me to complete my sets.

If this rarity thing is impacting my game negatively, I'm out. I've been in since before the game was released, but I won't put up with shenanigans to watch you increase your profits as my costs increase.

Ursus

03/20/2007, 22:23

Hmmm. Fascinating. Time will tell how well this works out.

Webheadman

03/20/2007, 22:24

Confound it i can't read the mag cause my PC got reformated now i have no programs to open it with....

AllNerdReview

03/20/2007, 22:25

I just want to know the rarity of Uniques now. It WAS 1:6 boosters. Where does that leave things now?

I loved clix because you didn't NEED any cards to play, kept it simple. I can just go play Star Wars miniatures now instead.

Thanosguy

03/20/2007, 22:31

Wow... those are some HUGE changes... for better or worse, we'll have to wait and see. I don't like the character cards, though.

Necromagus

03/20/2007, 22:31

More god **** cardboard! Price change, major deviation from the core game, reeks of MK and MW

Aminar

03/20/2007, 22:34

I dislike the cards w/ special powers bit. That seems like a pain. the rest is good.

bigbro911

03/20/2007, 22:36

Exciting news...Scarey news...but interesting...

The only two stinkers IMHO are worse sculpts and paint for lower rairities...and ranking + ratings (UGH!).

Everything else was too cool for school!!!

cjf28

03/20/2007, 22:36

I guess Im one of the few that like it. I like the bio on the cards.

So, is it just uniques that get the white power? or every figure?

It read as if, they are doing away with LE prize support?

I dont like not getting an entire REV set in a set. But at the same time, it makes more figures playable. I mean, unless the build total is low, I wont play my R Manhunter, when I have my Vet Jonn Jonez. But now, if all I Have to play is my rookie, it will see more action.

I like the Ironspider suit. and we finally get a bucky.

I like the news overall. 7.5 out of 10

Badgerbite

03/20/2007, 22:38

Wow, tons of news and changes, I wonder how the new and old style clixs will interact with each other.
It looks very good at first glance, I will wait and see how it is implemented before drawing a conclusion.

DOOMSTRIKER

03/20/2007, 22:38

wish i could see the mag. this sounds like it could end up just like MK for me (which i played since the first set, just like HC) why make it HCDDM? if these changes are as dramatic as im thinking they are, im done:( and thats terrible to me. i hope im wrong

stark's heir

03/20/2007, 22:38

Very nice job on the 1st issue of the new year Rock and crew...

Not sure about all the "new rarity and cards" stuff, but as I start to wrap my mind around it, it all seems okay. I love the idea of the cards. They'll really help new players understand things (powers, abilities, etc) right off the bat. The new boxes look shiny enough, it'll just be a little odd seeing them on the shelf next to the old stock come June or so.

Iron Man! Whoo-hoo!!!
Iron Spidey. Eh.

Uh yeah - Bucky. Cool. (As long as Winter Soldier is somehow thrown in the mix!)

cjf28

03/20/2007, 22:39

"up to 5 figures"

doesnt mean you will always get 5. specially with the giantman on the cover of one of the boosters

secretwarrior

03/20/2007, 22:40

DrmngCelestial

03/20/2007, 22:41

All I got to say is WOW just WOW it's going to take a some time to digest this as well as see what effect it has on play/ collectibility/ core mechanics.

One thing I wasn't sure of does that mean that there's 120 sculpts to collect for Marvel this year in the base sets, 100 for DC and then the action packs for more goodness? Oh!, my aching wallet thought it was going to see a moderate break this year (old model 2 DC +1 Marvel).

Hawkster

03/20/2007, 22:41

New booster artwork looks good. 5 figures per booster at $9.99 is reasonable enough for me.

The cards look interesting, but I honestly don't understand all the implications of that yet. I like the bio portion though.

The part about 60 different sculpts and BETTER quality sculpts is AWESOME! That is some news I can get behind! I'm also pumped about the frequency of set release! So, we get 3 sets, not two, between now and the end of the year, as well as some other goodies like the packs. That is cool. Overall, great announcements!
:)

malephoenix

03/20/2007, 22:42

WK may have gained me back as a player and collector. As far as I'm concerned, this was all great news. I'm REALLY looking forward to having more characters in a set.

Hawkster

03/20/2007, 22:45

Exciting news...Scarey news...but interesting...

The only two stinkers IMHO are worse sculpts and paint for lower rairities...and ranking + ratings (UGH!).

I ASSUMED (you know what they say about that) this meant that the more common figures would have sculpts like we have been seeing in SN and Origin, but the rare figs would be in ultra detail. So, nothing worse than what we already have and some better. Time will tell though...

elfholme

03/20/2007, 22:45

I'm not sure how to take this announcement. On the one hand I LIKE the idea of 60 characters per set, all with unique sculpts. On the other hand, I also play SWM and D&DM and one thing I LOVE about Heroclix is that I DON'T have to bring a card per character to each game with Heroclix. :P

I'm also unsure about the "white" powers. Seems like they could seriously unbalance the game in favor of newer characters with this bonus if it's not handled carefully. I don't see that as a good thing. I'm currently trying to replace all my carpy IC and HT (and similar sets) with newer, Seth-designed figs, and I'm happy to do that...but I don't want to have to start the process over again with "character card figs" because they are more playable than older figures! :(

I'm liking the 4 sets a year plan (in fact I called it a few weeks ago ;)), and the idea of themed events.

The rarity scheme concerns me...one thing I got from that section was "we know a lot of people hate the chase figures, but we choose to take this as a good thing". Kind of WK's own spin on "there's no such thing as bad publicity". I fear this attitude may result in more popular characters being made as chase figures, and that would seriously tick me off.

I wish they'd have given more information on future Horrorclix licenses (give me my Buffy set Wizkids!!!).

I don't care one bit about booster art being drawn by comic artists...does anyone else care about this? I hope they aren't paying much money for this "bonus".

I like that the Avengers booster art was included, and it shows us that we're getting Bucky, a new Moon Knight, Iron Spider, and 616 Giant-Man (finally!) with a new Wasp. We already have a great Cap, and I'm meh about Ultimate Hulk and Ultimate Iron Man though. Of course if the Hulk is good, I may just call him 616 Hulk. :)

I also like that we were told about the DC big tournament series (Starro!) and who all the heralds (Marvel and DC) are going to be! :)

I'm "meh" about a championship. As long as that doesn't mean less "Fun" events (Battle for Foom style tournaments, and Battle Royales) at cons, I'm okay with it.

So I see potential good and bad here. I'll have a better feel for it after we get the Avengers set and the Legion action pack (8 figures, yeah! :)). A lot will depend on how they carry off the character cards I think. I'm willing to give them a few hundred dollars and the benefit of the doubt and see how it pans out.

Cricket

03/20/2007, 22:45

I'm a little worried about the character cards, but overall it seems like good news.

cptspacebomb

03/20/2007, 22:46

WOW.................*Shakes head in dismay and disbelief* :(

WHAT I LIKE:

BETTER SCULPTS
HAVING BIO CARDS

WHAT I HATE!!

HIGHER PRICES FOR BOOSTERS
THE CARDS TELL YOU WHAT VERSION OF A FIGURE YOU HAVE
NEW INDIVIDUAL POWERS
ONLY 2 BRICK PER CASE
DOING AWAY WITH THE OLD STYLE COLOR RINGS

Thanosguy

03/20/2007, 22:47

The 5 figs a booster for 9.99 is cool. And the look of the boosters is great! Also, it's good to hear we'll be getting SOME better skulpts. I don't know about the new rarity system. It may take a while to get used to... The only idea I KNOW I don't like is the cards. That's a real pain. But overall, I THINK I like the changes. Even if I don't, I'm pretty sure they're not big enough for me to want to quit. Before you guys go out, I think you should at least wait until the set comes out before you decide. It's never good to lose fellow Heroclix players. :)

IceHot

03/20/2007, 22:48

some good some bad

I am not fond of the Clark Bar Marketing trick though

tyroclix

03/20/2007, 22:48

I dislike the cards w/ special powers bit. That seems like a pain. the rest is good.

To me, the special powers are essentially Theme FEATS. Instead of adding 5-25 points in a Feat, a character has a built in "Feat" only he can use.

Imagine if they had this on the Birds of Prey characters instead of In Contact with Oracle as we have it now...

It will be interesting to see if you can get a full set out of a case. Its 60 figures and a case should hold about 100 figures. So for 200 dollars you may have an entire set - that is 'about' what it is now - so really it may not cost us any more money - except for the fact the sets will be coming out a lot faster. I mean by this time next year we will have had Avengers, JLA, Mutants & Monsters AND Teen Titans - that's a lot of sets!

Little info on Approved Play. I wonder what that means.

Also, it will be interesting to see how these figures mesh with the current batch. I really hope cost-wise they fit.

Guess we'll see.

Color me anxious, yet hopeful...

MadCap#1

03/20/2007, 22:49

Great articles as always!

As far as the upcoming changes....Sorry, but I am starting to smell Mage Knight 2.0. It's all fun and games now, but just wait until the new rules and cards come out. I will wait until the Legion and Avengers sets are revealed more, but right now color me unimpressed with these changes. Combine it with the whole distributor issue and I am really starting to get turned off. Sorry, but I was one of those who got hosed with 2.0 and I don't want to see it happen again.

WarHULK

03/20/2007, 22:49

I'm not nearly as freaked out by this announcement as I thought I would be. The idea of more characters but less versions of each character in a set seems fairly good to me. I don't mind the character cards at all as long as green on move will always mean charge, etc, etc. I thought it was one of the best things they came up with in HrC. The sculpt thing sounds good. It'll be atleast the same quality we're getting now and the rarer the figure the prettier the figure. I can take that.

So, the only thing I'm worried about now is the ability to collect a set through buying a case. If I buy a case will I get a set? Close to a set? No where near it? Are we going to be flooded with tons of common generics that you'd have to buy 2 cases to complete a set? If so I'm going to have to drop HC like I did SWM or my wife will divorce me.

So, I guess we'll see how it all pans out soon enough.

Thanks to Rock and everyone else who worked on this issue!

krusticlese

03/20/2007, 22:50

Wow, I'm highly weary about these changes.

One of my biggest issues with current Wizkids products is Quality Control, and it got a 1 sentence mention (which was no different from what we've been told in the past).

No REV progression means that when that Guy Gardner figure comes along, he'll only have one TA (or none) when he should have JLA/Green Lantern... among a host of other figures.

The rarest figures are going to have the most effort put into them (sculpts and dials), which means they'll be very expensive on the secondary market.

More cards :rolleyes: with more errata to keep track of.

Different looking dials. Hmmm... I stopped buying the Simpsons DVD's when they went to different packaging, because they didn't fit in astetically with the rest of the set (call me crazy, I'm a collector).

Price increase. I'm somewhat less likely to impulse buy a $10.00 product then I am to impulse buy 2 boosters @ $7.99. Maybe that's just me.

I also notice he mentions how he feels Approved Play is "bribing" players to come out. Sounds like LE's are going bye-bye.

No more "generic" figures. Probabally one of my biggest purchases for each expansion on the secondary market (by volume). They also add a great element to the game. I'm sad that there won't be REV Mindless ones (for example).

I...I just don't know. Am I the only one feeling a little queasy?

IceHot

03/20/2007, 22:52

Kaitouace

03/20/2007, 22:53

The whole "You'll still get REVs but not REV sets" seems kind of odd. The whole "rarity" thing never bothered me but hey. Higher price per booster but more figures? Eh. Pans out to me. Seems like a total case will still come out to around the same thing but with fewer boosters making up an entire brick/case. So in the end the price will still be pretty close to what it is now. Although it still seems to lean more towards brick/case buyers than single booster buyers. Hoping quality is seriously ramped up for the bump in price though. Extra fig or not.

More sculpts/figures = HUGE plus

Cards = more storage issues but was expected and pretty much necessary for evolving the game without a Mage Knight redesign of the dials. Plus Horrorclix "explanations" of some powers is a good thing. Special powers makes for more thematic gameplay and better representation of characters. All good in my book. People can still have powers (Super Senses) but characters like Spider-Man can still have better versions of said powers (Spider-Sense) if it calls for it. Not as streamlined but IMO a necessary "evil" on the way to make the game more about thematic and accurate and less about power-gaming at higher levels. And the cards and new dials look snazzy.

Surfer, Terrax, Firelord, and Stardust = Galactus herald figs. Interesting.

Starro tourney = expected. The figures we're getting Starro-fied are not.

EIGHT sculpts for the Legion of Super-Heroes starter = another HUGE plus. Hopefully we get Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Brainiac 5 (needs Impervious and/or Defend with HIGH DV), Timber Wolf, Phantom Girl, Bouncing Boy, and round it off with some Superboy/Supergirl figure.

More thematic tourneys = plus. The Civil War thing was pretty fun. Anything that stops players from bringing Supernova Thanos, Kang, etc. week after week is a good thing.

Avengers booster art = REAL nice. I wonder if the bigger boosters means that we'll occasionally get 4 figures with one of them being a giant figure (see Giant-Man on booster art). Much like they occasionally do with other games like Star Wars Minis.

It's all a "wait and see" approach but it all certainly looks interesting and I'm hoping it all works out. I'm certainly on board for at least Avengers.

Manchine

03/20/2007, 22:53

Well its not that bad at all. Its definately not NAAT. Its actually pretty decent, actually. Its not the greatest news but its FAR from bad news.

Granite Moose

03/20/2007, 22:57

Interesting stuff for sure. Lot of information here and I'm going to need some time to wrap my head around it all. It will definitely take a set or two to see how these changes will affect the game as we know it. My only real worry is the character specific cards. Not a huge fan of the cardboard now and this will only increase the amount.

Kudos to Rock and the gang for another great issue of Critical Hit though. The product just keeps getting better.

tidge

03/20/2007, 22:57

No more "generic" figures. Probabally one of my biggest purchases for each expansion on the secondary market (by volume). They also add a great element to the game. I'm sad that there won't be REV Mindless ones (for example).

"Generics" been a favorite selling point of extra booster sales for me since Infinity Challenge. I'm guessing we'll get occasional "REV"s (now maybe spread over many sets?) but I will really miss the grunt forces.

stark's heir

03/20/2007, 22:57

Well, if nothing else, it'll be a great jumping on point for brand-new players.

dernjg

03/20/2007, 22:58

There’s a lot to digest here.
Some early thoughts:
The cards will only get annoying to some if every single one has a power on it, or if there’s some sort of non-optional power. If the power is optional, the complainers can just chuck the card and not use any extra, theme-related bonus. I’m seeing it as ICWO done right – a really good feat designed to help specific teams out, and it allows for some control in the design of it. Elegant, really.
Overall, the dial change doesn’t seem like that big of a deal. Is it still a sculpt of a comic book character tracking his stats and powers with a click dial? Yep. The unique rule still exists, and LEs still exist. But it looks like we’re in for some smaller sets now.
The booster size change is coming with a change in the sealed tournaments – it’s now back to two boosters. $20 for a tournament, I could go for. But cracking out $24 just got a little old. It’ll be interesting to see this effect on the metagame (or with luck, the sets might get tighter balance to them).
But BIBTB is now costing $100, up from $96. Wonder if the S&H will change, too.
On the Galactus tournament – did the junior circuit get scrapped?
And a “DOH” for me personally – the Galactus tournament is tentatively scheduled the same weekend as WW Chicago.
Noticed that the World Championship is now at GenCon Indy. While WizKids is shooting to add more conventions as part of their budget, they’re slowly distancing themselves from the Wizard World. Honestly, it’s smart business from where I’m sitting.
On the marketing side, there’s a lot of hyperbole there and not a lot of content. But yes, the company does need a revamp of advertising, including on sites that promote heroclix in a forum style.
And then, just for good measure, BAMN. Iron Spidey. Nice.

But what, no Johnny Thunder? Slackers. :p

DarkCrisis

03/20/2007, 22:58

Granite Moose

03/20/2007, 22:59

No more "generic" figures. Probabally one of my biggest purchases for each expansion on the secondary market (by volume). They also add a great element to the game. I'm sad that there won't be REV Mindless ones (for example).

Somehow I missed that part of the announcement. That's too bad, especially with the great job Seth has been doing with generics in the past few sets. :(

tyroclix

03/20/2007, 23:03

Cards = more storage issues but was expected and pretty much necessary for evolving the game without a Mage Knight redesign of the dials. Plus Horrorclix "explanations" of some powers is a good thing. Special powers makes for more thematic gameplay and better representation of characters. All good in my book. People can still have powers (Super Senses) but characters like Spider-Man can still have better versions of said powers (Spider-Sense) if it calls for it.

I'm not sure if we agree, but what I take from this is (from you example) I expect to see a card for each figure that lists the powers THAT figure has - kinda like a cheat-sheet.

So with Spider-Man it would say:
Orange Movement - "Wall-Crawling" (leap/climb)
Blue Attack - "Web-Spinners" (Incap)
Red Defense - "Spider-Sense" (super-senses)
Brown Damage - "Witty Banter" (perplex)

The ACTUAL powers will be EXACTLY the same - just with added fancy words to give some players the warm-fuzzies, other players an idea of what the heck that power is, and for those of us who don't care - no change what-so-ever.

The Special Power (perma-FEAT) is a different matter, but the naming of powers is something I've ALWAYS found completely irrelevant.

Glen Quagmire

03/20/2007, 23:03

Only thing to be concerned about is a player shouting "White Power!" upon opening a booster at the pre-release. ;)

Seriously, that's a lot of information to take in at once. But I'm taking most of it as good.

(edited out a statement here because I misread some of the news)

cptspacebomb

03/20/2007, 23:04

Terman8er

03/20/2007, 23:06

OK...what's this game called?

HeroCLIX right?

Heck...so everything isn't on the dial anymore?

I mean, we are still clicking but the thing about HeroClix is...er...was that everything was right there on the dial.

I guess this is just one step towards removing the PAC...c'mon now, we know its gone, they just won't confirm it...yet.

I am...stunned, to say the least. This is...well...I am not sure how to take it.

And no more LE's? (that is the intention I believe)

So, shouldn't we all just move to Star Wars & DnD minatures now?

I mean...wow.

dernjg

03/20/2007, 23:07

Spidey's Sub

03/20/2007, 23:08

Michael Kell

03/20/2007, 23:10

This is just horrible. It's hard enough to explain the game to my friends and family as it is. NOW, with added cards and EVEN MORE errata to keep track of....it's gonna be just even more difficult. I'm telling you right now, this is the beginning of the end of Heroclix.

I don't see it as more difficult due to the changes. To me the character cards actually make it far easier to explain rules and to help people get used to the abilities of their figures. It's right there on the card. I can't even count the times when someone asked what a red 6 means on a character. Now with the cheat sheet they can probably say something like "What does Incapacitate mean, again?". Should make getting into the game smoother.
Of course their will be errata. Every game has them, quality control as such will probably remain an issue till we are way beyond Avengers.

tyroclix

03/20/2007, 23:11

OK all, I'm out of heroclix!

Old style: 12 boosters x 4 figs each = 48 figs out of a possible 32 DIFFERENT Figs (28 rev and 12 U's) 4 bricks a case.

NEW WAY: 10 boosters x 5 figs = 50 figs out of 60 dif figs? 2 brix a case?

I'm not sure your comparison really shows a major difference.

Old Style @ 7.99 a booster. Your cost is $95.88 and you would get 48 figures out of a possible 96 or about 50% of the set IF you got 0 dupes.

New Style @ 9.99 a booster. Your cost is $99.99 and you get 50 figures out of a possible 60 or about 83% of the set IF you got 0 dupes.

Now if the dupe percentage is the same you are paying $4.11 more for 2 more figures and getting closer to an entire set.

I may have misunderstood your point, but I don't see a real significant change here. In fact, my initial reaction is for me to buy 1 brick for 100 bones and trade to complete the set.

No?

Superman Green

03/20/2007, 23:12

Okay, now that I've picked up my jaw from the floor, let me try and jot down a few thoughts on all this..

5-figure, 10-dollar-a-pop boosters. Doesn't sound like a bad idea, on the surface at least. Just so long as HC is still cheaper than Mechwarrior, or D&D Minis..

Smaller cases. Now HERE'S a problem. Cutting down from 12 boosters to 10 per brick, and from 48 to 20 boosters per case, really rubs me the wrong way. The reasoning behind it eludes me too..those of us who typically buy whole cases will now have to buy TWO cases in order to get the equivalent of what we now get from ONE case, while paying more or less the same amount.

No more REVs. This is the one that really has me wondering what our friend Tuttle is smoking..the whole idea with REVs is that we get different spins on a character's powers, and depictions of the various groups that character has worked with (Hank McCoy, for example, has been an X-Man, a Defender, and an Avenger). It also leaves me worried that we'll wind up with less satisfying figures..imagine if Origin had been done this way, and the only Alan Scott GL we got was that abysmal Vet version!

I need to stop for now, my head hurts :(

cptspacebomb

03/20/2007, 23:13

You mean to say your friends will have trouble understandind the game because WizKids is providing cheat-sheets for each of its characters?
NOOOOOOOO............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It's NOT A CHEAT SHEET. If you read what it said, THE CARDS ARE WHAT HAS THE POWERS and DIFFERENTIATES THE CLIX. AS THERE IS ONLY ONE SCULPT PER FIGURE. So, IF YOU PULL An Iron Man, you may get a Rookie, Experienced, OR Veteran CARD. That is just dumb... and the individual powers don't make it any easier to understand either.

DOOMSTRIKER

03/20/2007, 23:13

i wonder if this makes all my old figs worthless, just like 2.0 did to MK? they can say it doesnt or i can still use the old figs with the new ones, but they said that about 2.0 and it was true only in the slightest (most old figs became worthless on the table) man i dont realy know how to react to the change, i just dont want the same thing to happen to me twice from the same company

Ignatz_Mouse

03/20/2007, 23:14

I really like the break from the REV model. There are plenty of figures that I don't need three of (Hyena, anyone?) while others could use more than 3 versions over a set or two. It fits with the trend to have each version be somewhat different anyway.

I also like the cards, especially if I understand correctly that most will not have any special rules, but rather just a little explanation of why the standard powers were chosen. So Psychic Blast on Superman and now be "Penetrating Heat Vision" or whatever.

My big questions now are--

What are the Unique powers going to be, and how will they affect the game?

What's the quality of the commons going to be like? Worse, or are the rares getting better? (Or both?)

How much will I have to buy to get a complete set? 2 Cases, or more?

And who's going to be in the sets!!!!????

It also looks like perhaps the frequency of set release is going up, with 4 sets a year, two each DC and Marvel. I wonder how strictly themed each will be-- they imply that it will be somewhat.

I also hope that the new dial thing isn't going to keep some of the characters I've been waiting for from getting made-- perhaps they will be made even sooner!

BudPalmer

03/20/2007, 23:15

My only concern is if it will be harder to collect a set. Just how rare are the rares? Will I get a complete set if I buy a case? If not how far off will I be?

lunar

03/20/2007, 23:18

I don't want a ranking system. Imagine how much scarier tournaments would be if winning actually mattered. Good bye to tournaments being a fun place to bring your newbie friends and theme teams.

I'm excited about the other changes mentioned though. However, we have been promised much of this stuff plenty of times before and been let down. So as far as better sculpts go, I'll believe it when I see it.

Where are the no generics announced?

Michael Kell

03/20/2007, 23:20

NOOOOOOOO............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It's NOT A CHEAT SHEET. If you read what it said, THE CARDS ARE WHAT HAS THE POWERS and DIFFERENTIATES THE CLIX. AS THERE IS ONLY ONE SCULPT PER FIGURE. So, IF YOU PULL An Iron Man, you may get a Rookie, Experienced, OR Veteran CARD. That is just dumb... and the individual powers don't make it any easier to understand either.

Sorry, but the way I read it you got that wrong. For example, in the whole Avengers set there might be only one Iron Man figure. This could be Rookie, Experienced, Veteran or Unique, but it will always be exactly that level of experience and will always come with the same card and dial

This way, you might get Beast Experienced (Defender TA) in Avengers and Beast Veteran (X-Man TA and different Sculpt) one set later or never.

tyroclix

03/20/2007, 23:23

Okay, now that I've picked up my jaw from the floor, let me try and jot down a few thoughts on all this..

5-figure, 10-dollar-a-pop boosters. Doesn't sound like a bad idea, on the surface at least. Just so long as HC is still cheaper than Mechwarrior, or D&D Minis..

Smaller cases. Now HERE'S a problem. Cutting down from 12 boosters to 10 per brick, and from 48 to 20 boosters per case, really rubs me the wrong way. The reasoning behind it eludes me too..those of us who typically buy whole cases will now have to buy TWO cases in order to get the equivalent of what we now get from ONE case, while paying more or less the same amount.

I don't follow.

In your old case you got 192 figures (48 boosters x 4 figs) for 383.52 (retail).

Now you will get 100 figures (10 boosters x 5 figures) for 199.80 (retail).

If I must have 200 figures, I would buy 2 cases where before I only had to buy 1 case. What is the problem. My overall cost would increase $16.08 and I'd be getting 8 figures (or 2 extra old-style boosters) at near retail price.

Its the same thing. Is it just the idea you have to say "gimme 2 cases" is the problem. Again, I see it as spending 100 bucks and getting a vast majority of the set. We'll see about how the rarity shakes out - will there be multiple figures who are found at a ratio of 1 per case (2 bricks) or will you be getting 95-99% of a set from 1 case?

I guess we'll see...

CuriousLurker

03/20/2007, 23:27

After 5 years of producing heroclix Wizkids is still messing up collation and quality control. Now they’re adding a third element to screw up: figure, dial & now card. I guess I’ll have to wait another 5 years until 2012 to see what a perfect case under this new system will look like.

There is just not enough data for me to make my final judgment. And I won’t have that data until cases are opened in June.

If a 2 brick case contains a full set. Then it’s not as bad as it looks. If not... that’ll be a painful secondary market.

Most of us have a collection of over 2000 different clix. It’s becoming a task unto itself for me to store and catalog my collection. It takes me twenty minutes to yank a team out of their individually numbered and ordered Plano boxes. Now I need to locate a card from a binder too?

60 unique figures may not equal 60 characters. It could be far less. And I love having three versions of a figure to tweak a team from. Can’t fit Vet Cyclops, try his Rookie or Unique version. Having less point variation per character means I have less of a chance to build the theme team I want.

Sorry, I’ve been in the collectible business to long. When I hear the words “industry standard” my eyes roll up in the back of my head. This means instead of fixing what doesn’t work and exemplifying what does work with our product, we’ll just copy competitor XYZ’s business model. And pray we edge them out in an apples to apples comparison. It’s bean counter talk.

And you cannot tell me looking at Hypertime Aquaman, Hawkman & The Key that Year One was not up to Year Five’s industry standard. Hire more Steve Saunders and fire the whack-a-doodle that sculpted Alan Scott and fire the brand manager that approved that sculpt.

rock810

03/20/2007, 23:28

tchad

03/20/2007, 23:29

Well, if nothing else, it'll be a great jumping on point for brand-new players.

Or a great junping off point for anyone else.

tyroclix

03/20/2007, 23:29

NOOOOOOOO............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It's NOT A CHEAT SHEET. If you read what it said, THE CARDS ARE WHAT HAS THE POWERS and DIFFERENTIATES THE CLIX. AS THERE IS ONLY ONE SCULPT PER FIGURE. So, IF YOU PULL An Iron Man, you may get a Rookie, Experienced, OR Veteran CARD. That is just dumb... and the individual powers don't make it any easier to understand either.

That doesn't make sense. The cost for every figure in your example would be the same and the powers on the dial would be the same.

The card doesn't replace the PAC. Red movement still means "Flurry". On an Iron Man card it will have some cutesy name like "Hyper-Drive" but it will still work the exact same way. That is all the card does.

Now some cards will have this white power which, in essence is a custom FEAT. So instead of spending 20 points of Trickshot, the character comes with a unique feat that ONLY he can use. No more "Protected" & "ICwO" on a 20 defense / 12 attack / 4 damage figure.

I have a feeling Feats might be going away as a result, however...

Jpuffy

03/20/2007, 23:30

I must say that some of these changes sound fun. I'm not too worried about the cards as the powers should still be the same. Older players won't need them as much since the color scheme will be the same, but the white power may throw of that idea. My biggest concern is the approved play. I don't want to see that go away or be done as w/ Horrorclix. I can set aside certain times to play & look forward to the variety of players that show up all looking to play and compete. W/out the aspect of a prize, I don't have the same focus or drive to show up to play (somewhat overcompetitive). I might as well play w/ my friends, but girlfriend & different free time amongst all of us makes that difficult. If approved play goes away to some fashion, my playing time will decrease, and I'm afraid that will affect my interest in the game. I'm not ready yet to lose the game. I don't lose as much as when I play poker.

This is exactly how I feel, I mean if there are no more approved play tournaments for me to go to that have LE prizes then I'll more than likely loose interest and stop playing the game. I know its sad that it takes a prize for me to play this game but in all honesty since I've moved the only time I get to play is at tournaments because I can't call up my buddies and get a game going. So its not about the prize for me its more about playing a game I enjoy.

But if prizes are gone then I know attendance at venues will drop tremendously, and the place I usually go to is lucky to have 3-4 people show up with prizes. And if their are no prizes then people are just going to stay at home and play each other like they always do. Theres no reason for someone to drive 20-30 minutes to a venue just to hope that someone else shows up so they can have a friendly game:rolleyes:

Hopefully we're wrong and the system isn't going to change but it sure sounded like something was up with Approved play.

secretwarrior

03/20/2007, 23:30

I'm not sure your comparison really shows a major difference.

Old Style @ 7.99 a booster. Your cost is $95.88 and you would get 48 figures out of a possible 96 or about 50% of the set IF you got 0 dupes.

New Style @ 9.99 a booster. Your cost is $99.99 and you get 50 figures out of a possible 60 or about 83% of the set IF you got 0 dupes.

Now if the dupe percentage is the same you are paying $4.11 more for 2 more figures and getting closer to an entire set.

I may have misunderstood your point, but I don't see a real significant change here. In fact, my initial reaction is for me to buy 1 brick for 100 bones and trade to complete the set.

No?

I was pointing to the fact that If I get a brick, I have a better chance of getting SOME version of a figure in the old system. In origin, I got a R Shazam, but not vet. With the new system (basically 2 more figs per brick, but 60 DIFFERENT figs), there will be only one clix of a character. So there could be a good chance that I will pull NO version of a particular character.

AND the real shame of this is Seth was making R E V's different enough that pulling a rookie was no where near as bad as it once was. I pulled a R Shazam, but you know what? he's good! he's good in a different way than the V.

Now what if there's only one version of a character, say V GL from Origin. Imagine that horrible vet was the only Alan Scott GL you could pull in a set. NOW THAT'S A SCARY THOUGHT!!!

sorry if this is confusing..I'm tired :tired:

spider_ham

03/20/2007, 23:36

I'm happy that Starro is finally being made (YES!), and that we'll get 616 and Ultimate Avengers remakes, but worried of how the characters cards will affect gameplay and market value of figures. I don't see the need for making 5 different rarities of a figure when 3 (Common, Rare, Unique) would do. Of course, this also means that Common Vets will be cheaper and easier to come by. :) I don't like how REV sets will be spread out over several expansions.

The cards are a great way to "tweak" older figures from the first three or four sets with the addition of a "Special Power." However, having to rely on a card for ther aforementioned ability is going to be a pain. Being able to proxy a card is a nice gesture, but for someone who hardly uses cardboard, it's a nuisance, especially if a certain power/bonus is gamebreaking and you forget to use it...

(edit)

Doug Rettler

03/20/2007, 23:38

Once again fantastic job with the mag! It just keeps getting better! I am not to thrilled about the changes though. I agree with most and will give it a couple of months to pan out and see what happens. *sigh* Could be the next best thing since sliced bread or the down fall of a game I truley enjoyed. Time will tell.

Doug

tyroclix

03/20/2007, 23:38

I was pointing to the fact that If I get a brick, I have a better chance of getting SOME version of a figure in the old system. In origin, I got a R Shazam, but not vet. With the new system (basically 2 more figs per brick, but 60 DIFFERENT figs), there will be only one clix of a character. So there could be a good chance that I will pull NO version of a particular character.

AND the real shame of this is Seth was making R E V's different enough that pulling a rookie was no where near as bad as it once was. I pulled a R Shazam, but you know what? he's good! he's good in a different way than the V.

Now what if there's only one version of a character, say V GL from Origin. Imagine that horrible vet was the only Alan Scott GL you could pull in a set. NOW THAT'S A SCARY THOUGHT!!!

sorry if this is confusing..I'm tired :tired:

I see what you mean. I think the flip side will be that you will be pulling figures you don't want to trade for those. Sure you might not pull a SHAZAM! in your example, but you may have pulled 2 Supergirls and 3 Hawkmen which to trade with.

I think its going to be more like the old Unique ratio in so far as there will be a level of figure with more value which can be used either as trade fodder for a figure with equal rarity or to get a bunch of lesser rarity figures.

And sure this will cause us to have figures like KC Superman, Ult Thor and CT Nightcrawler - where there are certain figures EVERYONE wants. But I recall with each new set it was easy to trade for those old U's because everyone was jumping on the new hotness wagon.

I got a Nightcrawler by trading a U Green Goblin and U Savage Hulk when XP came out.

I got a U Thor by trading a MODOK and Bastion when MM came out.

elfholme

03/20/2007, 23:39

Where are the no generics announced?

Good question, because I don't see it. Can someone quote the exact text they are referring to when they say "no more generics"? Please?

Hopefully it's just a misreading, because no more generics would be bad.

dernjg

03/20/2007, 23:40

NOOOOOOOO............... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It's NOT A CHEAT SHEET. If you read what it said, THE CARDS ARE WHAT HAS THE POWERS and DIFFERENTIATES THE CLIX. AS THERE IS ONLY ONE SCULPT PER FIGURE. So, IF YOU PULL An Iron Man, you may get a Rookie, Experienced, OR Veteran CARD. That is just dumb... and the individual powers don't make it any easier to understand either.

YEEESSSS......
(sorry, couldn't resist). I read it, and there's two points I need to make clear. First, I've taught the game to a lot of people, and the one key concept that they had trouble with the most was associating the color on the dial to the power on the PAC. These cards will aleviate that problem nicely.
Second, the dials will look the same on the spinner as they do now. And no, each sculpt probably won't have and R card, E card and V card. Notice, the cost is still printed on the dial. So unless REVs are all costed the same, there won't be three cards to collect. If there were three cards and they all came with the same sculpt, that would be interesting, though.

dernjg

03/20/2007, 23:44

Kite-Man

03/20/2007, 23:46

#### cards.:tired:

We usually play 'no cardboard' games.

The point of the little dial on the base is that you didn't need any extra stuff except a PAC and a map and two dice.

Guess I have to try the new set and see, but I don't like it so far.

Luckily there are enough good dials out there and I'm good enough at modding that my friends and I don't have to change anything if we don't want to.

malephoenix

03/20/2007, 23:50

And now for some food for thought:
I was showing the new dial look to my wife and running down the changes when this hit me - the unique dial ring now has absolutely nothing to do with rarity.
Let this stew for a second.
Done? Good.
Highlander rule may now be a part of reality in heroclix rules. Each "named" figure COULD sport a unique ring, and each non could be without it. That would be a great design change to force more themey results.

Nah - I think this misses the way they're doing this. It's not like there will be the same number of say, Blobs as there are of Nightcrawlers. It's that even though there may be only one version of each figure, there will be far more Blobs out on the market. Uniques will still be just as hard/easy to come by. (Or did I miss your point?)

secretwarrior

03/20/2007, 23:53

I see what you mean. I think the flip side will be that you will be pulling figures you don't want to trade for those. Sure you might not pull a SHAZAM! in your example, but you may have pulled 2 Supergirls and 3 Hawkmen which to trade with.

I think its going to be more like the old Unique ratio in so far as there will be a level of figure with more value which can be used either as trade fodder for a figure with equal rarity or to get a bunch of lesser rarity figures.

And sure this will cause us to have figures like KC Superman, Ult Thor and CT Nightcrawler - where there are certain figures EVERYONE wants. But I recall with each new set it was easy to trade for those old U's because everyone was jumping on the new hotness wagon.

I got a Nightcrawler by trading a U Green Goblin and U Savage Hulk when XP came out.

I got a U Thor by trading a MODOK and Bastion when MM came out.

Trading is not an exact science. I have a trade thread up for so long and still can't get figs I need. Plus, I dont have a huge amount of time to do trading. I want to get a brick, get a reasonable number of figs I want from it and then do "light" trading or ebay what I didn't get.

Some people are rabid to get certain Vets. If I get an Exp and he/she is decent, than I probably wont go crazy getting the Vet, unless it's a character I like. Plus, you act as if I get a hawkman, someone will come at the right moment and want exactly what I have for what I want when there's only one version of that fig to go around. A hundred people could have that fig.

Let's just say I am not officially out off heroclix yet, but am seriously starting to lean that way.

NO OFFENSE THOUGH... I am tired :tired: :sleep: :sleep: :sleep:

EmperorShotz

03/20/2007, 23:59

I can live with getting a "common" Rogue in her original costume as a brotherhood member and a "rare" rogue in her current caped costume-- it just might bother me that I may get them both four sets away. But can I live with that? Ab-so-freakin-lutely. Why? Unique sculpts for each version of a character. If a character, such as Patriot of the Young Avengers, doesn't exactly deserve a "rare" (so weird saying that instead of Veteran), then he could have a "common" for now, and when a significant change in the character's look/powers/status quo develops, that version of the character can then be created without worrying about filling 3 slots for that one character who perhaps hasn't gone through much growth/change at the time of the set's release.

As for getting at least one version of a character thanks to R/E/Vs, who's to say that they won't put the "common" Cap in a set along with a "rare" Cap-- two different sculpts, one character. I could see that happening.

100 figs a case to complete a 60 fig set. Sucks that it's not physically more figures, but I'm paying 200 for a case rather than 250. And that's a little more than full retail vs less than full retail. Hmm... that I could deal with...

60 different sculpts... a set... mmm...

Now character cards-- If I can play WITHOUT the cards, then I won't care. If it's MANDATORY that I have the card to play the figure, that's a bit annoying. It would be pretty cool to have characters be a bit more accurate through this special new game mechanism, but I could see this as getting hard to keep track of and tedious especially for a player that travels as much as I do.

Does this make the old figures obsolete???

I'm willing, but weary...I'm watching you, Wizkids.

GOKOXX

03/21/2007, 00:00

i hope they still give out les but with more meing the way it is now les r like 5 bucks a pice i hope they make it so they woth more and r hadder to get

dernjg

03/21/2007, 00:01

Nah - I think this misses the way they're doing this. It's not like there will be the same number of say, Blobs as there are of Nightcrawlers. It's that even though there may be only one version of each figure, there will be far more Blobs out on the market. Uniques will still be just as hard/easy to come by. (Or did I miss your point?)

A little, and I'm thinking this warrants its own thread shortly.
Say a set has a police officer and a jubilee (both common), an uncommon Giant Man and Kang, and a rare Iron Man. That's all based on their rarity levels. But there's now no reason not to say the Jubilee and Iron Man are both uniques (if the Giant man is from ultimates, it's fun to have him as an REV, while Kang should never be unique).
So there could be common uniques, uncommon nons, etc.

colwyn

03/21/2007, 00:10

I don't know if any of you play star wars minis but this new system is identical. So most likely next year we just going to get rid of the dials all together. What exactly does common mean, is it going to be like stormtroopers where I basically have 20 different sculpts of the same fig. So now out the 60 characters I get 20 different Shield Agents.

Does rarity also means set case distributions again back to star wars. They have 16 rares per set and 12 very rares. However there cases are fixed the rares are split into 8 per case and they are the same 8. So you can open one pack and know what the other 7 are going to be. The uniques are worse they are split into sets of 4. So to buy by the case, technically you have to buy 3 cases to get a full set.
There is a reason none of my Star Wars sets are complete and I only buy them occasionally. I guess Wizards ooh I mean Wizkids don't want my money by making it near impossible to collect full sets, unless you live in your mom's basement and have no bills.

Demon218

03/21/2007, 00:12

Gacy's Clown

03/21/2007, 00:23

Oddly enough, I just sold off all of my HorrorClix for two reasons:
1. Couldn't find time to play it.
2. Got tired of having to deal with the cards.:tired:

I'm pretty pumped about most all of the news so far, but unless I missed something (which is highly possible), I'm not too gung-ho on having to collect cards for each figure, having to store cards for each figure, or having to keep the cards to have to trade with each figure.
All of the powers are the same, except we get that White Power (unless it's Black Panther), so we're basically having to keep a card just to tell us what a new power does.:rolleyes:
I, personally, don't care about character bios and new, snazzy titles for powers enough to have to haul around more cardboard.

New packaging pricing: Seems fair and I'm ok with it. Seems I can complete a set even cheaper than now, which is fine by me.
New dial design: Seems cool so far.
New sculpts: Sounds pretty cool too.
Approved Play: A bit leary on this one. Have to wait and see here.
Galactus/Starro tourneys: I'm pretty excited about these!!!
Rankings/Championship: TOTALLY excited about this, but will have to wait and see on it as well.

First Lensman

03/21/2007, 00:27

I have to say, I HATE where they are headed. I'd Collect the figures, but only for the sculpts, and then i'd pull out IC Spiderman, and IC Hulk and beat them to the ground. You can use your new figures all you want, I'm sticking to my Classic Guns.

WHO'S WITH ME???

A lot of players have been clamoring for Wiz Kids to abandon the REV concept because it forced them to do REVs on characters that did not have the necessary history.

I have been a big proponent of different sculpts in an REV set. I enjoyed REVs such as Monsieur Mallah/The Brain/Monsieur Mallah & The Brain for example.

The new format will drive more storyline-based figures in sets which I will really, really like. So a future set may be called Civil War, 52, Age Of Apocalypse or Infinite Crisis and all the figures will pertain to those storylines. There will be no need to force REVs on characters.

I like the character cards because they are NOT like the cards in HorrorClix. HorrorClix's character cards defines what the colors mean for that character. There is no consistancy and it leads to confusion. The HeroClix character cards are for information purposes only and will explain why a character has a certain power. This is effective where characters get a power because it is used to represent another ability altogether. Plus, the character card will have character information that'll be interesting for players not familiar with that character. I think this is a big plus. As it said in the article, you can leave the cards home and still play these figures because the colors will not deviate from the PAC!!!

Just my two cents!

malephoenix

03/21/2007, 00:33

A lot of players have been clamoring for Wiz Kids to abandon the REV concept because it forced them to do REVs on characters that did not have the necessary history.

I have been a big proponent of different sculpts in an REV set. I enjoyed REVs such as Monsieur Mallah/The Brain/Monsieur Mallah & The Brain for example.

The new format will drive more storyline-based figures in sets which I will really, really like. So a future set may be called Civil War, 52, Age Of Apocalypse or Infinite Crisis and all the figures will pertain to those storylines. There will be no need to force REVs on characters.

I like the character cards because they are NOT like the cards in HorrorClix. HorrorClix's character cards defines what the colors mean for that character. There is no consistancy and it leads to confusion. The HeroClix character cards are for information purposes only and will explain why a character has a certain power. This is effective where characters get a power because it is used to represent another ability altogether. Plus, the character card will have character information that'll be interesting for players not familiar with that character. I think this is a big plus. As it said in the article, you can leave the cards home and still play these figures because the colors will not deviate from the PAC!!!

Just my two cents!

Flat-out the best analysis I've read from anyone on either side. If I knew what "rep" was, I'd give you some.

antedoX

03/21/2007, 00:36

Pros:

*The removal of REVs* - There are SO many figures I will NEVER use because one or more versions of an REV are just no good, and there are so many figures who don't need a full REV set. It feels like wasted money. If we can get solid, innovative dial design on EVERY dial, then the loss of REVs will be no loss at all. On the other hand, EVERY dial needs to be useful or else you'll have a situation where you've got no recourse but to either play a terrible figure who happens to be your favorite or never get to use that character.

*Cards* - they seem fun. They don't seem like they're really detracting from the game. You still use the PAC. It's just like getting a character-specific feat card with every dial and a bio. Cool.

On the Fence:

*Better, more detailed sculpts for rarer figs* - if this means that we'll get Supernova quality sculpts for commons and Masterpiece quality for rares, I'm game. I just don't want poor quality on more common figs.

*60 sculpts instead of 40* - now if this means that we'll still have 96 figure sets and just a few will have duplicate sculpts, I'm fine with that, but if it means that set size is getting smaller, I'll be upset. Look at Icons if you need to know why. That set, despite being cheaper to complete, felt as unsatisfying as all get out.

Absolute freakin con:

*Trick boosters* - Five figures (maybe) in a pack just means that we've got an extra common slot in the box. Sure it means they can now fit giants and double-based figs in there and still get three more figs, but i'm not fooled. Commons will be more common. Rares will be more rare, and I'll have to spend MORE money to complete the set.

If I have to spend substantially more (per figure) to complete a set than I already do, I'm out. I barely scrape enough to maintain this hobby as it is.

Kaitouace

03/21/2007, 00:51

I'm not sure if we agree, but what I take from this is (from you example) I expect to see a card for each figure that lists the powers THAT figure has - kinda like a cheat-sheet.

So with Spider-Man it would say:
Orange Movement - "Wall-Crawling" (leap/climb)
Blue Attack - "Web-Spinners" (Incap)
Red Defense - "Spider-Sense" (super-senses)
Brown Damage - "Witty Banter" (perplex)

The ACTUAL powers will be EXACTLY the same - just with added fancy words to give some players the warm-fuzzies, other players an idea of what the heck that power is, and for those of us who don't care - no change what-so-ever.

The Special Power (perma-FEAT) is a different matter, but the naming of powers is something I've ALWAYS found completely irrelevant.

What I was thinking about this was that they could give Spidey something like ES/D or Combat Reflexes for his defensive power and then give him a defensive Special Power called Spider-Sense that would (just for an example) let him avoid any attack with a roll of 4 - 6 if he has no tokens on him at the time of the attack. And have it act as regular Super Senses if he has one or two tokens on him. Enhanced Super Senses for Spidey on every click.

PMMJ

03/21/2007, 00:53

Sorry, I’ve been in the collectible business to long. When I hear the words “industry standard” my eyes roll up in the back of my head. This means instead of fixing what doesn’t work and exemplifying what does work with our product, we’ll just copy competitor XYZ’s business model. And pray we edge them out in an apples to apples comparison. It’s bean counter talk.

A-freakin'-men. Seriously. They're already trying to sell us on Heroclix 2.0, and they want to explain why we'll like that they're charging us more money to get fewer figs and not as much of a set, but don't worry *because it's good for the industry.* Gah.

Al_Mattityahu

03/21/2007, 00:57

Great work on the mag, everybody!
I'm looking forward to seeing how all the changes turn out, they all have potential to work out great, and I'm actually not wary (as opposed to weary) of any of it. I would not have complained if the REV system had continued but I see great potential in this new system, it should be cool. The cards are another element to keep track of, but I will deal with that, and cardboard is not a big deal anyway. Predicting that the dial is going to be phased out soon after the introduction of the cards is maybe a bit premature and extreme, as far as I can tell.
But then again, I have heard that the sky is falling, so...I'll just wait and see, I guess.

Miraclo

03/21/2007, 01:04

My only concern is if it will be harder to collect a set. Just how rare are the rares? Will I get a complete set if I buy a case? If not how far off will I be?
This ranks extremely high on my list, roughly neck and neck with what the distribution changes will mean is the best price I can buy a case for. If a single case, containing 100 figures, can get me essentially a complete set (minus the ####### super-rare "chase" pieces) that will make matters more acceptable. With the set, number of figures in a booster, number of boosters in a brick and bricks per case all changing I'll need to revisit what I was accustomed to, break it down in terms of number of figures and rebuild the model to see where my line of acceptibility will be. That we're apparently shifting back to a three-month spread between sets (as opposed to the generally more affordable four) will have to be a consideration.

The five-figure boosters helps explain what I'd been hearing for months about the Coming of Galactus tournaments being two-booster buys. At least that much more is clear.

The lines about "putting value" into the boosters and apparently all but assuring us that the super rare pieces will be sticking around are irritating to me. This whole "collectible" = increased rarity schtick is something I've never agreed with, and I'm no closer to agreeing to it now.

Just about as irritating was the line about even those of us who hated the chase figures being part of generating the buzz. Well, I can tell you firsthand that such "buzz" as I generated concerning the chase figures was part of the reason the four people I'd begun to get interested in the game in 2006 haven't stepped over the line from simply playing with my clix into buying any of their own.

There's a great deal to absorb in this, and beyond that we'll have all of the questions we won't have answers to for months.

Unifiedshoe

03/21/2007, 01:05

So before boosters were $8 for 4 figs ($2 a fig) and now they are $10 for 5 figs ($2 a fig). Seems fine. They also come with cards that add to the flavor of the figure but dont affect gameplay. Awesome! Whats everyone complaining about?

The Starro and Galactus events seem awesome. New sculpts with better quality cant be bad. Whats not to love about this?

Terman8er

03/21/2007, 01:35

So before boosters were $8 for 4 figs ($2 a fig) and now they are $10 for 5 figs ($2 a fig). Seems fine. They also come with cards that add to the flavor of the figure but dont affect gameplay. Awesome! Whats everyone complaining about?

4 figs at $8 On average 2-3 commons and some "other stuff". $2 per fig.

5 figs at $10. On avarage 3-4 commons and...$2 per fig.

But now we are getting more commons, on average. Ergo we are paying more for more worth less than $2. Not "worthless" mind you.

Buddyhoss

03/21/2007, 01:37

The only thing I'm worried about is the white power (and not just because of the term, "white power"). It sounds to me that this special power is going to make the cards mandatory, as opposed to optional. And if you do consider it a permanent feat card attached to the character, which is what it seems, then the card becomes very much mandatory, because if you don't have it you've payed points for a feat you're ignoring/not using.

hulkamania85

03/21/2007, 01:49

I've been into this game off and on, this new set format will be something to check out. Whether I stick around will depend on what the rarity format will look like. Meaning I'm hoping we will see decent characters as more than rares and super rares. I don't want to see Superman as a super rare all the time.

Buddyhoss

03/21/2007, 01:56

Dont be fooled by Clark Bar Marketing math

right now MSRP is $2 a fig

Its still $2 a fig

Only now that extra fig will be guarenteed to be a common.

So now you will be paying more for less since 1-in-4 was rare, now 1-in-5 is rare.

I wish they would just be honest about it instead of disguising it like we are too stupid to figure it out.

In response to this type of thinking: You're making a lot of assumptions and comparisons between the pseudo-rarity levels of the old style with the set-in-stone rarity levels of the new.

In the 4 figure boosters of today, what are you guaranteed in each? The "rare" figure in them isn't always a "rare-rare." There are actually three versions of rare currently: Rookie, Experience, and Vet. I pulled many more Rookie "rare" figures, say, Martian Manhunter, then I did Veteran "rare" figures in my case.

You say now 1 in 4 figures is rare. I'd say you get 1 rare of each figure per case, which is 1 in 24 (8 in 192).

With the new system, you will most likely get one rare figure per booster. And you'll really be able to tell if it's rare.

Old system: 8 rares/48 boosters
New system: 1 rare/1 booster?

It's something to think about.

Kirby

03/21/2007, 01:56

Just wanted to say "Thanks" for another great issue. Lots of good articles and information.

Just to contribute my opinion - I'll reserve judgement until I get more Serpent Society :grin:

Monkey Joe

03/21/2007, 02:42

Thanks Rock and everyone else who put time and effort into the new issue. It looks great.

Now onto the big news...I was worried while waiting for the pdf to download (yay dial-up:cheeky: ), people seemed to be going crazy. I'm all for most of the changes. I don't mind the cards(we already have them in feats, etc.). None of the changes seem to affect game play other than the lack of REV sets which can hurt theme teams. So I don't see where this "2.0" is coming from. It's more geared toward the collectablity of the game.

I Am The Game

03/21/2007, 03:01

I have more questions than positive things to say, but I'm mostly concerned with the distribution. The problem with adding value to the pack, as they put it, is that it makes booster buying more of a gamble. Right now, the commons aren't worth much, and the rares are expensive. Raising the price of the booster by adding a common devaluates the commons, and raises the price of the rare, since it costs more to pull any one rare than it did before. Where's the benefit? Instead of spending $8 to get the rare I'm missing, I'm supposed to spend $10? Not happening.

I already have more commons than I know what to do with at 2 per booster. 3 is going to be horrendous. Will this be the set that teaches me to throw extras of extras in the garbage? I can see this causing a lot of dissatisfaction when opening packs. It doesn't matter what the rarity is, people don't want to see figs they've already got.

Neven

03/21/2007, 03:07

The lurk is officially over, baby... I've been away for a bit, but just like Michael Corleone, "Every time I think I'm out, they pull me back in ..."

First things first:

* Rock & co.: The issue looks good. You've really come a long way from the first Critical Hit. And, since I'm a newspaper page designer by trade, I hope that praise carries some weight :)

Now as far as the announcement and the upcoming changes:

* I'm pleasantly surprised to see that most people are reacting positively to the news. Maybe it'll be great, maybe it'll suck, but for a long time griping and negativity ruled these forums. It's nice to see a lot of people aren't ready to throw these proposals under the bus until they've had a chance to see how they play out.

* The price change: I can deal with it. Figs are still going to be about $2 each. Yes, the extra spot might just mean more commons, but that's OK. It's not unusual in a Seth set for the common figs to be the ones that I really want. And if it's a bit of a money grab, well so be it. It'd be awesome if they just mailed all us good customers a free set every time they came out, but it doesn't make sense from a business standpoint. Like it or not, WizKids has to make money off of their product, or they'd go out of business. It's a collectible game, so they're going to make some pieces harder to get than others. You don't have to jump up and down for joy, but you can't really begrudge them either.

* The cards: I think this is a pretty cool idea. I've dabbled in Horrorclix, so I've got some experience with the character cards, and what WizKids has done is transfer all the cool stuff over to HC while leaving behind all the negatives.

In Horrorclix, the cool thing about the cards was that it allowed for endless variety -- whatever power you thought apiece should have, it could have it. The downside was that the colors were almost meaningless, because there was no uniformity. In HC, the colors are constant, and the powers won't be changing. For most pieces, the card will be nothing more with a cheat sheet, with some fluff text to explain why the power fits the character (Spider-sense = Super senses). However, for certain pieces, the White power will allow for unprecedented customization, sine you'll be able to give that piece (and only that piece) a cool funky ability.

Some are freaked out by the idea of the White power slot; I think those worries will be mostly unjustified. I don't foresee too many pieces getting the White power -- it inherently limits dial design. If someone has a White power in a slot, then they're going to have a Power there on every slot. That just doesn't fit a lot of characters, so I don't expect to see a ton of "unique" powers.

The rest of the card benefits are nice. Having a cheat sheet handy is great for new players to learn the general power effects, and to explain why some characters have them. The background text might seem like fluff, but actually is a nice touch. Horrorclix (which is comprised predominantly of generic figures) uses it to give pieces personality. While Heroclix figs aren't as generic, it's a welcome edition, especially since Seth has a penchant for using lesser-known characters. Sure, Swordsman might be a familiar character to some people, but he's equally baffling to others. I myself can't tell you who half the guys in Sinister are. I'll still play them if they have nice dials and/or a fun sculpt, but it's a benefit to players like me if we have at least an inkling of who the characters are and who they would be working with/against.

* The new rarity status I'll wait and see on this, but overall, it sounds really cool. Ditching the REV concept is an excellent idea. Sure, there are characters that demand it, but there are also characters that don't. Breaking the strict adherence to it frees up the ability to adapt to what works best. Case in point: The Young Avengers. They're the figures that have me really hyped up about the Avengers set. I love the comic and the characters in it. But none of them can really justify a full-blown REV treatment. Before, my only hope to get them was a collector’s Set; Now, I can get them as part of a regular set, and not have to worry about collecting three versions of a of a character that really aren't all that different.

And let's make note of the fact that they haven't ditched the REV concept entirely. They're still marking experience level on the cards, so it's still a part of the game. But now, they're not trapped into making an REV set unless they feel that the character justifies it. If they want three versions of a char in, they'll have it; if they don't they can still put that character in the set without wasting a Unique slot on it. Seems like a good deal to me. Plus it'll also help them get prominent characters into a set more easily. Every set might contain a Captain America or Iron Man, but they won't have to take up three slots. And, while that might be frustrating that you'll have to wait for multiple sets to complete the REV, it also means they're won't have to be a situation where you have to wait a couple of years to get a new REV of favored characters (Thor, anyone?)

Ok, plenty more to come on this, but this post is getting long. Feel free to rebut, retaliate or ignore. I'll be back soon enough to answer the cynics ...

I Am The Game

03/21/2007, 03:07

One more thing... anyone else concerned that variations of character cards will take the place of LE's in tournament prize support?

Monkey Joe

03/21/2007, 03:13

One more thing... anyone else concerned that variations of character cards will take the place of LE's in tournament prize support?

Variations? If you mean misprints, then no.

A_Higher_Level

03/21/2007, 06:01

Heroclix 2.0?

Well, I don't really know what to think of it. Instead of hypothesizing, I'll simply wait for the release and see how it all goes. However...

I've been waiting for an Age of Apocalypse set. I knew a full set would be hard, and quite frankly, a collector's set would only have pissed me off. I'm thinking the possibility of it getting it's own set release is a lot more possible with this new layout.

Hopefully the Indy set will get a new release. Oddly enough the REV set really didn't apply to a lot of those characters.

FireLFighter

03/21/2007, 06:28

Whooooohhhaaaaaaaa
*singing* ... that's the way ... a-ha a-ha ... I like it ... a-ha a-ha ...

Everything I ever wanted for heroclix finally comes true.

Last days I told a friend, that I liked HorrorClix better for the Character Cards, because figures may have unique abillities. Finally they are able to represent HeroClix Characters correctly (now the just have to do so). Now I like HeroClix better, again!

And I collect sculpts ... so I really looove the idea, that every figure will have a unique sculpt!!!

And the thing 'bout the color rings ... truly, I just don't care.

Now if they finally start playtesting new figures and cards, so they don't have to make further rule adjustments, I will be happy as possible!!!!!!

*still singing*... that's the way ... a-ha a-ha ... I like it ... a-ha a-ha ...

MattMinus

03/21/2007, 08:26

rock810

03/21/2007, 08:56

Ok, over 2000 emails sent out in less than 10 hours. Please check bulk mail just in case as this is a LARGE document. To those who got it twice I apologize. I hope everyone enjoys the mag. If you did not get the issue, just PM me and we can figure it out.

Spidersense

03/21/2007, 09:08

My guess is that this is going to follow the model of Star Wars minis. What I THINK we will see is alot of dupes of the commons and the rare/unique/super-rare will be EXTREMELY hard to complete sets of. I am guessing the Super-Rares are the Alfred, Lois, etc. I think you are going to see mainstream figures put in this category.

This is just my experience with Star Wars minis. I thought the game was great, but the collectability, high booster $$ for getting alot of commons and the high $$ for the rares/super-rares on the secondary market drove me out - it was a money pit.

I will wait to pass final judgement until I see:

- What the rarity breakdown is for the boosters
- How hard in reality the rare/unique/super-rares will be to collect
- Secondary market pricing.

Don't be fooled by the idea of an even increase in price/value. Right now, you pay $2 per figure in a booster. With the new system, you will be paying an extra $2 for an extra COMMON.

My guess is the 5 figures (in general) breakdown will be:

3 commons
1 uncommon
1 rare/unique/super-rare

If I am right about that breakdown, this will not make people happy - including me.

With the 60 different sculpts per set, it will make you want to get the WHOLE set even more. For me, if I got, for example E Iron Man, and didn't like the Vet, I didnt need to get it. I was happy to have the sculpt and character. Those of us with that attitude are going to go crazy trying to collect this new distribution. It will cost us more $$ in the long run.

We'll see how it shakes out.

AllNerdReview

03/21/2007, 09:12

I've been collecting 'Clix since IC came out, and for some reason, pulling a U figure from a booster still makes me tingly.

a ) Will my old, insanely huge, stacked-to-the-ceiling collection of Clix work with the new ones, game-wise?

b ) Will I get a full set from a case? Or at least 95% of a set?

Since I MAINLY collect for fun, (and rarely get to play since I live in the middle of nowhere), the new sculpts seem fun. And I love Starro. And the unique powers seem like they COULD be fun, but I really STARTED with 'Clix because it was the first game that I could play without cards or pencils or paper. I started losing interest when feat cards came out. Now, I'm going to not only have to remember my OWN abilities, but the extra abilities of my opponents in order to play a successful, smart game. I know that a lot of people out there have these dials memorized, but there's not enough room in my brain for that. It's already full of Star Wars characters and beef jerky. And I'll end up playing a stupidly-played game on my part, when I DO play.

And I'm growing up, too. In the interest of saving money for a real life, certain things have to leave, and I think that HeroClix has just made itself one of them. I'll never understand why people feel the need to change a comfortable, good thing. Sure, the game isn't perfect, but I really don't think that ALL of these changes at once is a great idea, especially when it only makes the game that much more generic.

But I'm a sucker. I'll wait & see, but at the moment? This sounds like a death knell. We'll see if 'Clix lasts into 2008. I'd like to know NOW, so I don't start collecting a whole new version of the game that I'm never going to be able to complete & will be worthless to resell after it dies.

DaeRave

03/21/2007, 09:29

Wizkids, youve restored my faith (i think.)

Please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, please, PLEASE make one of the new chase figs a giant fig Bill Foster with a black scorched hole in chest.

lmfao

wilburpenguin

03/21/2007, 09:36

I don't really care for the idea of character cards, especially the bio bit. If I pull an obscure X-Man, I don't want his/her biography, because they will still go straight in the garbage. I don't like X related figures.....

Booster artwork means very little to me. The boxes all end up in the bin once opened.

Five figures a box is okay with me, although boosters are already considerably more expensive in Europe. If it means more giant figures, fine.

Giant-Man....YIPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

HippieX

03/21/2007, 10:06

I think I am just a glass half-full kinda person.

1) Different Sculpts for every character: this is what I like about the new sets so much. Hawkman, Capt.Marvel for example.

2) Not more REV's: I really think this will help get a lot of the characters quicker. Like the NEW Blue Beetle. He can be a Rookie in the current set and progress as he goes along. Or I can get a Classic Blue Beetle without having to collect a whole REV. There are so many characters this can help I think it's a good thing. I guess you can look at it negatively but I think Seth will look out for us. (Come on New Batgirl :) )

3) $10 : it's a price increase. It's not unreasonable. Hopefully they will make the boxes bigger to support the new cooler sculpts.

4) Character Cards: the one thing I hate about Horrorclix is that an orange dot can mean anything. We still get to keep the best part of Heroclix, that the colors are consistent. I see the White power as others do it's a Character Specific Feat. What a great idea. No more crazy feats on powerful figures. Protected on Capt A. great, Capt. Marvel not so great.

I can't wait.

Necromagus

03/21/2007, 10:06

I have a few questions...
1) Will older figs get character cards? Maybe something you can download from WK that covers popular older figs...
2) Will character cards be compatible with any version of the named figure? EX: Can i use the CC from Avengers Iron Man on the Iron Man from Ultimates?
3)Will older figs become obsolete?
a) I understand the the next expansion always must add something to the game that was not previously there, wheter it be new power combo's, higher stats, new cards etc. That being said, its natural for figs to become obsolete over time as new and improved models arrive that do the job better than they did. What I fear here is that, just like in Mage Knight when 2.0 came out, the new GAME will render the old one unplayable in the new format. I am not saying the two will not be compatible, the older figs just will not be competitive. This will bring about a decline in the usefullness of the older sets and their value will freefall. Taht freefall will result in players being angry that the figs they spent huge amounts of income have become useless... I hope I am wrong there
4)Will feats and BFC's still be produced? Will they be legal with the new figs?

Thanks for reading all that. I have been here since the beginning and would hate to see the game die the way my beloved Mage Knight did...

NM

Necromagus

03/21/2007, 10:08

this also leads to Horror/Heroclix being more compatible... not too shabby

thele

03/21/2007, 10:12

EIGHT sculpts for the Legion of Super-Heroes starter = another HUGE plus. Hopefully we get Cosmic Boy, Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Brainiac 5 (needs Impervious and/or Defend with HIGH DV), Timber Wolf, Phantom Girl, Bouncing Boy, and round it off with some Superboy/Supergirl figure.

I was thinking about something. Wasn't LOBO part of the LOSH for a while? Or at the very least, a main character?

`Le

tidge

03/21/2007, 10:20

I was thinking about something. Wasn't LOBO part of the LOSH for a while? Or at the very least, a main character?

It was L.E.G.I.O.N. that had Lobo as a member...although he sorta "guest starred" in a LSH story arc after the "five year gap".

Lofcutus

03/21/2007, 10:28

this also leads to Horror/Heroclix being more compatible... not too shabby

Just a reminder that there are 85 pages of Critical Hit Magazine after 12 of announcements...:laugh:

::cough:: page 89 ::cough::

thele

03/21/2007, 10:54

Just a reminder that there are 85 pages of Critical Hit Magazine after 12 of announcements...:laugh:

::cough:: page 89 ::cough::

Yeah! And no one has mentioned the BLUE DEVIL joke I put in, dammit!

`Le

olcottr

03/21/2007, 11:41

I am ready!

First Lensman

03/21/2007, 12:44

You say now 1 in 4 figures is rare. I'd say you get 1 rare of each figure per case, which is 1 in 24 (8 in 192).

With the new system, you will most likely get one rare figure per booster. And you'll really be able to tell if it's rare.

Old system: 8 rares/48 boosters
New system: 1 rare/1 booster?

It's something to think about.

In the current packaging, there are 8 REVs that are "Rare" as well as 12 Uniques. One slot in the booster was set aside for a Rare or Unique figure. Therefore, you needed to buy at a minimum 36 boosters (3 bricks) to get all the Rares. But, the Rookies on the last 8 REVs were not as rare as the EV or the Uniques due to the rarity number. You really needed to buy a full case (4 bricks) in order to complete a set (without trading, natch!).

In a 60 figure set, I'm looking at the following distribution in a case (if anyone knows it to be different -- speak up!):

Common: 15 figures x 3 = 45
Uncommon: 15 figures x 2 = 30
Rare: 15 figures x 1 = 15
Super-Rare: 4 figures x 0.25 = 1
Unique: 9 figures x 1 = 9

Does anyone know how many Uniques will be in a set? My guess is that Wiz Kids will have and guarantee 9 Uniques in each case. The Super-Rares will still be the most sought after pieces as witnessed in the last two sets. My only question is: will we get all Rare figures in a case!

This is only a guess. Talk amongst yourselves

BattlinBichon

03/21/2007, 12:47

If this was a poker game then id be all in. I love it, everything. No more crappy yellow ring wastes of plastic. 60 different sculpts, amazing. Feats built into a charcter awsome. But the best news is Giantman. Wow! I knew i was saving cash for a reason. Well done Mr. Tuttle and Seth

I Am The Game

03/21/2007, 13:16

A question for Rock: did you get any indication whether you'd be getting future exclusives?

Variations? If you mean misprints, then no.

No, I mean variations. D&D minis give out Epic cards for existing figures as prizes. What are the chances that Iron Man's regular card will have one white power, while the LE card has a completely different white power?

Repulsor rage

03/21/2007, 13:25

Does that look like 616 Cap or ultimates I cant tell(on the boxart)

Jpuffy

03/21/2007, 13:26

Does that look like 616 Cap or ultimates I cant tell(on the boxart)

When I looked at the picture last night I thought 616, but I may have just assumed that since Bucky was sitting in front of him.

Doc Nebula

03/21/2007, 13:32

Random thoughts --

That might not be Bucky on the booster box with Cap. It's unlikely Bucky ever sat on a rooftop with Cap, as the Boy Sidekick's entire costumed career took place in the European theater of WWII.

I'm hoping it IS Bucky, but I'm also hoping we get a sculpt of Rick Jones in the Bucky costume. Rick is far too important a character to the MU for him to be a pog.

My take on the price hike/new booster box #####ing is that it's mostly the Type A collectors -- those who buy their product by the case -- that are upset with the changes. The Type B collector -- people like me who have to settle for a few boosters every paycheck because, you know, we have actual real world expenses we need to spend most of our money on -- don't seem that upset about it. I myself am not that upset about it, although I will be if this makes getting rare figs even more difficult and expensive. I'm already resigned to never getting a KC Green Lantern, an Ultimates Thor, an Alfred, a Lois Lane, or a complete set of Marvel Zombies (fortunately, I honestly couldn't care less about that last). If this new distribution system starts significantly adding to the figs I simply have no realistic hope of ever getting, well, it's going to significantly impact my pleasure in collecting the pieces. But that's a wait and see; I'm not a completist, I generally only care about the characters I like.

On the cards -- in my opinion, the game needs much more flexibility in terms of defining the individual characters, since comic book characters can widely and wildly vary one from the other in terms of how their powers work. I liked Feat Cards because they made the game a little more flexible. I understand these new cards will bring in even more of that. On the other hand, I already play Magic and my clix are all over my apartment, on every shelf I have, and the idea of having to store all these goddam cards is giving me a headache. Still, I do like the idea of the 'white powers'. Again, this is a 'wait and see' for me.

I'm totally psyched to get a classic red and blue costume Giant Man, and he'd damned well better be a double sized sculpt. I wouldn't mind getting a normal or miniature sized sculpt of Yellowjacket (the Pym YJ) while we're at it. A blue and gold Pym Goliath (or a red and blue Clint Barton Goliath) in addition would make the set for me.

I honestly couldn't care less about ANYthing that has happened in AVENGERS since that idiot Bendis blew the team up. Everything since has been unacceptable garbage. Therefore, the Iron Spidey does nothing for me, and I suspect a good half of the new sculpts in this set will be wasted on post-BMS detritus. This makes me sad. But a Kirby Giant-Man and a new Wasp and a Bucky... well... that could seriously rock.

I'm not sure how I feel about the new dials. I am instinctively distrustful of change, like nearly everyone. On the other hand, who ever wanted or needed a yellow dial Rookie? I only ever display a rookie until I get a Vet to put in the line up in its place. I'll miss the flexibility in TAs that a full REV provided, but, still, WK was always hit or miss. Where's my Avengers TA Beast? Or my Avengers TA Moondragon?

Overall... well... I'll wait and see how it all comes out.

elfholme

03/21/2007, 13:58

I honestly couldn't care less about ANYthing that has happened in AVENGERS since that idiot Bendis blew the team up. Everything since has been unacceptable garbage. Therefore, the Iron Spidey does nothing for me, and I suspect a good half of the new sculpts in this set will be wasted on post-BMS detritus. This makes me sad. But a Kirby Giant-Man and a new Wasp and a Bucky... well... that could seriously rock.

Totally agree with all this. I only mentioned Iron Spidey as a positive in another post because I recognized him and he's not an Ultimates (or other alt-Universe) version of a character.

Regarding Bucky - Whether the figure on the booster is actually Bucky or Rick Jones matters little to me. :)

I'm not sure how I feel about the new dials. I am instinctively distrustful of change, like nearly everyone. On the other hand, who ever wanted or needed a yellow dial Rookie?

Seriously? Just off the top of my head, here are Rookies that I consider invaluable and play over their EV counterparts:

Origin Shazam
Origin The Question
SN Ant-Man
SN Vision
SN She-Hulk
SN Kang

Since Seth took over designing the figures, the Rookies have REALLY come into their own (and E's have improved as well, IMO). At the current "stage in the game", all levels can be good and useful, and flexibility in figure selection is more important than ever before.

Doc Nebula

03/21/2007, 14:10

Totally agree with all this. I only mentioned Iron Spidey as a positive in another post because I recognized him and he's not an Ultimates (or other alt-Universe) version of a character.

Regarding Bucky - Whether the figure on the booster is actually Bucky or Rick Jones matters little to me. :)

Nice to see someone else can see the Horror That Is Bendis. But I really, really want to see Rick get his own figure. He deserves it.

Seriously? Just off the top of my head, here are Rookies that I consider invaluable and play over their EV counterparts:

I don't argue that Seth's approach has made many of the lower point cost REV figs more playable. It's just that this is such a recent development, I haven't really emotionally integrated it yet. I agree that many of the rookie figs you cite are useful, although in the case of Shulkie and Ant-Man, I still find the Vets to be the MOST useful figures of the REV. Still, if I'm strapped for points, it's nice to have lower cost Pyms that will still kick a little ###, yeah.

BattlinBichon

03/21/2007, 14:15

[QUOTE=Doc Nebula]Random thoughts --

I'm totally psyched to get a classic red and blue costume Giant Man, and he'd damned well better be a double sized sculpt. I wouldn't mind getting a normal or miniature sized sculpt of Yellowjacket (the Pym YJ) while we're at it. A blue and gold Pym Goliath (or a red and blue Clint Barton Goliath) in addition would make the set for me.

Sing it from the roof tops brother!

tidge

03/21/2007, 14:17

Just off the top of my head, here are Rookies that I consider invaluable and play over their EV counterparts:

Origin Shazam
Origin The Question
SN Ant-Man
SN Vision
SN She-Hulk
SN Kang

For pre-Seth examples of Rookies I often use:

FF Nightcrawler (very budget-minded, and not a bad piece)
HT Robin (only way to afford a 5-figure Titans team that I like!)
CM Meteorite (yay Masters of Evil!) <-many other figures fall in this category too, primarily because of TA.

Doc Nebula

03/21/2007, 14:24

For pre-Seth examples of Rookies I often use:

FF Nightcrawler (very budget-minded, and not a bad piece)
HT Robin (only way to afford a 5-figure Titans team that I like!)
CM Meteorite (yay Masters of Evil!) <-many other figures fall in this category too, primarily because of TA.

Yeah... TAs are generally the only reason I ever used to play rookies... I put together a Masters of Evil team with the rookie Wonder Man for example (after I modded my rookie Wonder Man with a flight stand; the rookie Wonder Man had belt jets, dammit), and I never team Dr. Doom up with anyone but a rookie Sub Mariner. So, yes... as I always play theme teams, sometimes a TA on a rookie will get it in when a Vet would be more effective. So, I agree with this.

And I prefer the Experienced FF Nightcrawler to the Vet, because you can Phase him right next to someone with Passenger on him, so he can bring a friend, and be pushed immediately onto his HSS click, letting him hit and run away again. Which is nice. But I find such stuff to be rare until Seth showed up. Back in the old days, if you had the points, you ALWAYS played the Vet, the R and E were just there to fill up boosters... except for theme teams.

thele

03/21/2007, 15:01

For those of you interested, I posted LARGER images of everything here:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193860

Enjoy!

`The Le, layout artist for Critical Hit

DraXXXen

03/21/2007, 16:22

I rarely play Heroclix anymore (due to few local players) but i'll jump into playing again if this new set, with its many unique sculpts, can deliver one thing to me:

HULKBUSTER ARMOR

common wizkids....COMMON!!

Eve Kos

03/21/2007, 16:50

So, shouldn't we all just move to Star Wars & DnD minatures now?

The smart people already did :laugh:

Emberwild

03/21/2007, 17:16

the $10 for 5 figs is fine as there really isn't a price difference per fig. My concern with is when it comes to sealed play. Are we still required to buy 3 boosters? I am not too sure how I feel about the card thing. Wasn't that glory of the combat dial is not having to have extra paper to keep track of? (I know we have feats but those are optional)

Spider-Dave

03/21/2007, 17:26

thele

03/21/2007, 17:27

Originally Posted by Terman8er
So, shouldn't we all just move to Star Wars & DnD minatures now?

The smart people already did :laugh:

Sure, if you don't mind tiny figures with little detail. HeroClix figures are way better than that.

`Le

hero_temp

03/21/2007, 21:33

Sure, if you don't mind tiny figures with little detail. HeroClix figures are way better than that.

`Le
I dunno, the collossal red dragon is pretty damn sweat :cool:

Thanks for the larger images.

Mag is fantastic as always, I get 2 online mags (one for another hobbie), and this has caught up with the other one in quality very quickly

.......

As to the changes, hmmm :ermm:

Like :classic:
detail increase
extra fig / price balance (price has not gone up more than the fig)
Galactus/starro tourney idea = cool
more sculpts, always wanted

Iffy :ermm:
changes in rings, I can see the benifit, and it would be nice to not have 10 r enchantresses, and I like the look of the new rings, but i'm also a character collector, so i am normally happy when I get any representation of a character, rookie/ vet thor, bah, as long as i have a thor. This may make it harder to get specific characters, but i will hold out on this.
Tourney/approved play Not enough info to see which way this will go.

Not keen on :(
Cards/White Abilities - I have enough cards with my limited Horrorclix collection. I like the pac, all you need is some dice and the pac. And I know it will be only needed for "white" abilities, but that is still a pain. And with that... White abilities??? um isn't the dial white?

I will give a brick a try, and decide from there. I do like the appearance of the new dials thou, (red/blue/yellow rings never looked as good as silver bronze rings)

I Am The Game

03/21/2007, 22:18

stark's heir

03/21/2007, 23:28

Hello, I do the layout and imaging for Critical Hit. I have posted larger versions of the images so you can get-your-fix-on.

Note that the website may run a bit slow from all the traffic.

Images found at: http://www.TheLeGames.com

-The Le

Hmmm - I just checked the larger photos out. On the side of the Cap/ Bucky box, there are 2 figs shown. One, to me, looks like the Iron Man sculpt (minus flight stand).
The other though, almost looks like the Red Skull standing on a shield of Caps...
Anyone else?

Jpuffy

03/22/2007, 00:41

I think the one figure you thought was Iron Man may actually be the Colonel from Ultimates 2 that is supposed to be in the set. Because it looks like he is holding up the staff he had in the comics.

And the other one.....is a little tougher to tell but it definitely looks like he is standing on a red and white shield, so more than likely its Red Skull w/ Cosmic Cube thats supposed to be in the set as well.

Doc Nebula

03/22/2007, 06:02

Here's what I figure so far (maybe I should start a Boneyard style AVENGERS thread here on the site, and on the WK boards) --

Confirmed:

Captain America
Bucky (maybe Rick Jones in a Bucky suit, too?)
Spider-Man (in Stark armor)
Moon Knight
Giant Man (616, classic Kirby red and blue costume)
Wasp (616? Ultimates?)
Hulk (Ultimates)
Iron Man (Ultimates)
Toro (from card example given on WK site)

Strongly rumored:

Wolverine (with Avengers TA)
Golden Age Human Torch (with Defender's TA, which will apparently be used for Invaders)
Daredevil (with Avengers TA)
Red Skull w/Cosmic Cube

Possibles -

Black Panther
D-Man
Young Avengers
Piledriver (Wrecking Crew)
Enchantress
Hercules
Black Widow (616? Ultimates?)
Goliath (Pym? Barton? Foster?)
Great Lake Avengers? (please God no)
Golden Age Whizzer
Golden Age Miss America
Thin Man
Blazing Skull
Scarlet Witch (616)
Golden Age Vision
Blue Diamond
Sun Girl (pog)
Wonder Man (original costume)
Power Man/Smuggler
Melter
Black Knight (villain, with winged horse)
Porcupine
Master Man
Warrior Woman
Agent Axis
Space Phantom (actual sculpt, with cool 'white power')
Beast (Avengers TA)
Ms. Marvel
Living Lightning
Spider-Woman (the blue one)
Armored Avengers (WHAT IF #2)
Egghead
Man-Ape
Scorpio
Libra
other Zodiac members

virtually ANYone who has ever been an Avenger, or associated with the Avengers, could be a possible here

First Lensman

03/22/2007, 08:31

I honestly couldn't care less about ANYthing that has happened in AVENGERS since that idiot Bendis blew the team up. Everything since has been unacceptable garbage. Therefore, the Iron Spidey does nothing for me, and I suspect a good half of the new sculpts in this set will be wasted on post-BMS detritus. This makes me sad. But a Kirby Giant-Man and a new Wasp and a Bucky... well... that could seriously rock.

I thought so too when Avengers Disassembled was annoounced. And then they go and kill off Hawkeye! I recovered enough to consider: "What would happen if the team was wiped out?" I groaned when Wolverine and Spider-man joined the New Avengers. Do they have to be in every issue of every Marvel title? Well at least it seems that way! But, I have to consider that it was the right move at the time. The Avengers should always be a group of your most powerful heroes. I liked the return of Sentry and the addition of Ronin. But, most of all, I liked that Tony Stark brought Peter Parker in from the cold, so to speak. It always seemd ludicrous that Peter was always alienated in a universe full of teams that were formed to protect and help each other. It also seemed natural that Stark would develop a suit for Peter. My only question now is: why didn't Stark make flexible bullet protective suits for the entire team *cough* Cap *cough*. I also found it funny that everyone was against Iron Man for working with the Government when Professor X was working along the same lines in X-Men for years and was considered the good guy. OK so Iron Man slipped up with the recruitment of bad guys to hunt down the good guys. So now we have two different titles. The New Avengers and the new Mighty Avengers. To me it's the more the better!!!

Smurf Torch

03/22/2007, 08:44

It looks like some good stuff will be coming. Can't wait. Keep up the good work Crit Hit Team.

Doc Nebula

03/22/2007, 09:37

I thought so too when Avengers Disassembled was annoounced. And then they go and kill off Hawkeye! I recovered enough to consider: "What would happen if the team was wiped out?" I groaned when Wolverine and Spider-man joined the New Avengers. Do they have to be in every issue of every Marvel title? Well at least it seems that way! But, I have to consider that it was the right move at the time. The Avengers should always be a group of your most powerful heroes. I liked the return of Sentry and the addition of Ronin. But, most of all, I liked that Tony Stark brought Peter Parker in from the cold, so to speak. It always seemd ludicrous that Peter was always alienated in a universe full of teams that were formed to protect and help each other. It also seemed natural that Stark would develop a suit for Peter. My only question now is: why didn't Stark make flexible bullet protective suits for the entire team *cough* Cap *cough*. I also found it funny that everyone was against Iron Man for working with the Government when Professor X was working along the same lines in X-Men for years and was considered the good guy. OK so Iron Man slipped up with the recruitment of bad guys to hunt down the good guys. So now we have two different titles. The New Avengers and the new Mighty Avengers. To me it's the more the better!!!

I thought what Geoff Johns, and before him, Larry Hama, did with the AVENGERS was taking them in the right direction -- make them into a global team, although I didn't think they needed embassies/sub teams in every country. Keep 'em in New York, in fact, keep them in Avengers Mansion (it's too cool and old school to lose) but make them United Nations representatives and have them respond to global and even extraglobal emergencies.

I did NOT think the entire team needed to be destroyed and rebuilt with ::gag:: ::hack:: ::cough:: ::spit:: ::vomit:: WOLVERINE.

Spider-Man -- I have nothing against him, in fact, I'm an old time Spidey fan. But Spidey has always been a loner. He's tried and tried to join teams, he never fits in well. I like that characterization and consider it essential. When Peter Parker/Spider-Man stops being an outsider, he really loses a great deal of his appeal. Those who want him to join the Avengers are in the "let's be nice to all the characters" school, and when a universe is built on the idea of tragic, flawed heroes and villains, you can't take that approach. Otherwise, we end up curing the Hulk and the Thing, giving Tony Stark a strong heart, making Hank Pym an avatar of mental health... and all our characters become boring. Conflict, both internal and external, is what makes good fiction, and it was internal conflict that made the Marvel Universe something that all of its competition over the past five decades has tried so hard to emulate. DC has now managed to copy Marvel's Silver Age formula so well that their current storylines are all but identical with what Marvel has been doing for forty to fifty years now. (But, it must be admitted, DC now has the much better writers.)

As to CIVIL WAR and its fallout -- a key thing in keeping a superhero universe successful is to make it seem realistic and internally consistent, without actually DOing it. The reality of a superhero universe, with all that advanced technology and all those paranormal individuals, would be very different from the world we all inhabit. But we don't want to see our heroes in a very different world from ours; we want to see our world, WITH SUPERHEROES. The fact is, if our world had superheroes, it would no longer be our world, it would be something we can't even imagine (although it would probably be something similar to what we see in Alan Moore's America's Best Comics titles).

Yet with CIVIL WAR, Marvel has taken their universe and actually made it 'realistic' by asking, and answering, the question -- should superheroes, and superhumans, for that matter, be subject to intense government supervision at all times? The actual answer is, of course, yes -- the idea of someone with Cyclops' powers walking around on a city street, with nothing between the people around him and a horrible massacre but a pair of Raybans, is ludicrous and horrifying. Even the Human Torch's powers badly, badly need some kind of oversight -- realistically, that boy should have inadvertently started thousands of fires over the course of his career.

The simple fact is, though, that this isn't any FUN. We just don't want this level of detail in our superhero fantasies, and we certainly don't want to fantasize about being a superhero who has to fill out insurance forms and get bonded and go before government oversight committees and maybe report once a month to some kind of state or Federal supervisor of superhuman activities. I mean, that's just b.s. The whole basis of the superhero fantasy is a POWER fantasy; we want to become someone else (hence the mask and the cool costume and the code name) and run around doing whatever we want, and feel like it's all justified because we're using our powers in the service of the common good.

I used to feel that both DC and Marvel had made grave and potentially fatal mistakes by turning their comic book universes into places that weren't any FUN any more, that none of their readers would ever want to live in or even visit, or, more specifically, that none of us would ever want to fantasy project ourselves into. But I seem to have misperceived the zeitgeist. While this has alienated ME from both universes, the overall audience today seems to like reading about universes they would not want to actually live in, like, I don't know, the WATCHMEN universe, or the SUPREME POWER universe, or, nowadays, the post CRISIS DCU, or the post CIVIL WAR Marvel U.

But for me, a great deal of the pleasure of reading about my favorite characters is gone, because I no longer have any desire to fantasize about being a superhero in those worlds and hanging out with those guys. It's two fold -- first, the worlds themselves are dismal, depressing places nowadays. Second, a lot of my favorite characters have turned into pricks. (The one that Marvel resolutely couldn't turn into a prick, Captain America, they decided to put a couple of bullets through instead.) I'm still reading DC because DC has good writers; I no longer read Marvel, because Marvel doesn't. (Not only that, but all the really popular writers at Marvel are British Invasion Alan Moore wannabes who can't freakin write, and nobody seems to care, either.)

But, as I say, I seem to be in a minority; there is definitely an audience out there for dystopian superhero universes. And if such universes are well written, I can even enjoy them, too. But first, such a universe would have to feature characters I am not emotionally invested in (like the current DCU) and second, it would have to be well written (again, see current DCU). If the universe features characters I love from childhood and they are being treated disrespectfully (see: Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch, Captain America) or simply turned into jerkwads (see: Iron Man), well, that's going to aggravate me, and when your 'best' writers are Mark Millar and Brian Michael Bendis and Warren Ellis, well... see ya. Wouldn't want to be ya.

But I still like the little plastic figs. ;)

Lofcutus

03/22/2007, 10:01

The articles are top notch everyone. (I'm not just saying that 'cause I wrote one.) I'm only half way through the issue and so far I'm impressed withe quality of the Fan contributed pieces.

Joel Lapresta's Supergirl review was fair and very detailed.
Art Ramos's Travelling Case idea is good.
Philip Gasper's Unsung Heroes showcasing the Cheap cheap cheeeeeap E Spymaster and the useful U Arkon was a good read.
Steven Brooks's Ladies Night showcases a team I wouldn't mind playing at all
Jonny Flieger's Meta gaming article on the how to's of playing and playing against two of the most notorious pieces (V Superman (Ic) and U Flash (LG)) was insightful.
Rob Peterson's Themes Like a Good Idea, featuring the Marvel family was interesting and well put together.
On the HorrorClix front

Ken Lewis's Map conversion for the JSA Museum is getting used at my HorrorClix event tonight!
Stuff I don't play

Brian Thorpe's article on specialized Crew is good and makes be reconsider picking the game up again.
Eric Ramson's article on the latest expansion of DreamBlade reminds me why I had to drop that game...I just can't afford so many sealed games with neat looking pieces.
Mike Mullens's Vs. article, in truth, I just skimmed trough because I don't know anything about Vs. these days.

Glen Quagmire

03/22/2007, 10:34

the $10 for 5 figs is fine as there really isn't a price difference per fig. My concern with is when it comes to sealed play. Are we still required to buy 3 boosters?

In the Heralds event write-up, I think it was advertising two boosters. Whether that's going to be the standard for all sealed play, we'll see.

I am not too sure how I feel about the card thing. Wasn't that glory of the combat dial is not having to have extra paper to keep track of? (I know we have feats but those are optional)

A lot of people have had this same concern. I think the "everything's on the dial" deal was a nice way to market the game and help people feel at ease when learning how to play. However, after five years of people learning how to play this game, it's time to move on.

Yes, there are new people still coming in, but sticking with the status quo means those people are coming in and looking at a five-year-old comic book miniature game that still doesn't have the means to do an accurate Phantom Stranger or Deadman. Or, to go back to a figure from last year, Madrox.

And while a good number of experienced players aren't happy with the new cards, I wonder if there's a dividing line there between people who are primarily gamers and people who are primarily comic fans. I'd suspect the majority of the latter are OK with the character cards. Generally speaking, of course; I understand there's exceptions. But since I put myself in that latter category, I can't understand this designated-hitter* type distaste people have for the cards.

*Apologies to non-baseball fans for the reference that will go over your head. :laugh:

thele

03/22/2007, 10:44

Manchine

03/22/2007, 12:04

Hmmm... still no mention of my Blue Devil joke in Critical Hit, eh?

`Le

Now I am gonna have to look for this Blue Devil Joke. :ermm:

SLVRSR4

03/22/2007, 12:56

I'm going to go on record here and state that I am worried...

Let me back up a bit. Change is the only constant in the universe. People as a whole FEAR change. Wizkids is taking a game that has worked for 5 years and is making pretty major changes. The Heroclix community as a whole is cringing. This is understandable. However, unlike some of the other people here seem to be taking things WAAAY too seriously. I heard one person complaining that bricks will now only have 50characters per brick and that there will be 60 characters per set. Therefore, you won't have a chance to get a full set. WHEN DID YOU GET A FULL SET FROM ONLY BUYING ONE BRICK PREVIOUSLY?! If anything, the new brick/case structure will only increase your chances of getting closer to a full set. People are also taking the rarity/sculpt quality issue a little further than it should go. They aren't saying that the sculpts will be bad for the more common figures. They are simply saying that the sculpts for the rarer figures will just be that much more cool.

I am curious to see exactly what will happen to my theme teams upon the release of this new format. They say it will be easier and I'm all for that, but we'll see.

I'm all about the Heralds of Galactus and Starro tournaments, but unfortunately I am only able to attend maybe 2-3 tournaments a month. If I miss out on any of the Heralds, I REAAAAALLY hope that they are not majorly costly on the secondary market or that people will make reasonable trades. Not so much concerned about Galactus or Starro themselves as I realize that I really don't stand much of a chance of getting them. If I do win them, FANTASTIC, but otherwise, I just want the smaller, more collectible figures.