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View Full Version : The Trophy Room The Trophy Room: Detective John Jones


ol_Dut
03/22/2007, 14:55
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/or210.jpg
Can you see me now? Can you see me now?

The only real consistent presence on the Justice League, Martian Manhunter first appeared in DC’s Cosmic Justice expansion. While the sculpt did a wonderful job of capturing the essence and spirit of the character, his dial was noteworthy for little other than all that Super Strength and all that three (3) damage. Origin gives us four more versions of our favorite Martian, including the LE Detective John Jones. How do they stack up? Click on “Read More” to read my mind Martian Manhunter style!

ol_Dut
03/22/2007, 14:57
Here are the dials of those in question.

#210 LEDetective John Jones
Team: Police Department
Range: 6 /
Points: 144
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal791621010173810163891638915378153781527714267142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

http://www.hcrealms.com/units/or083.jpg
Single Green Martian seeks SF/NS into telepathy and guys with enormously huge thighs.
Turn-ons: Chocos, sweaters knitted by old women, and Rock ‘em Sock ‘em Robots.
Turn-offs: Fire.
Contact: Just yell, “Help! I’m being attacked by the Legion of Doom!” I’ll hear you. Really.

#083 E Martian Manhunter
Team: JLA
Range: 6 /
Points: 167
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101016491016499153891538915389153891437813288132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO


LE Detective John Jones’ Gains vs. Experienced Martian Manhunter
Watching the Detective, we see that he adds one click each of Stealth and Super Senses to help keep him safe from harm. He also gains a 17 defensive value on his second click, and in fact has generally better overall defensive scores than his Experienced counterpart. Further adding to his protection are four clicks of Shape Change interspersed throughout his dial that will potentially help him avoid attacks. John’s Outwit increases by three clicks, and his PD team ability can add one (1) to the attack value of any friendly adjacent character (additional rules and restrictions apply). Last but not least he’s got himself an ultra-cool transparent sculpt that is very slenderizing.

LE Detective John Jones’ Losses vs. Experienced Martian Manhunter
Mr. Jones gives up his Leadership and all of the Probability Control found on the Conehead. His mobility also suffers as he drops two clicks of Running Shot and two clicks of Charge. Offensively, John has two less clicks of Incapacitate and two fewer clicks with a nine (9) attack. Invulnerability and Toughness are also diminished by a click and Perplex is reduced by four clicks.

Neutral Dial Tinkering
John leads with Stealth were the Experienced Martian dives right in with Charge. Incap appears in the middle of the Detective’s dial and is followed by Psychic Blast, while E Manhunter closes with Incap which is preceded by Psychic Blast.

Cards That Work
Some may be excited about equipping him with Brilliant Tactician, but with that lone click of Perplex it doesn’t seem like he’ll get much mileage out of it. As long as he remains adjacent to blocking terrain, his plethora of Shape Change will grant him a form of Stealth when it’s enhanced with Camouflage.

If ol_Dut had to Choose
LE Detective John Jones vs. Experienced Martian Manhunter? Truth be told, I’ve got some issues with both of these figures. I like the E Martian’s upfront mobility but am rather put off by his low defensive numbers. Starting at a 16 and working south from there, figures with an average nine (9) attack are not going to have too much difficulty connecting with the Conehead. Also, for his point cost, a hefty 167, I’d like to see at least one 11 attack or even a hint of Impervious defense. Regrettably we get neither. The rest of his dial pans out rather well with some Stealth, Running Shot, and loads of Perplex and PC. Both of those support powers are always welcome additions to any team but with his short six (6) range, he’ll likely be in pretty close proximity to the opposition and his lines of sight may be somewhat limited as result and may prevent Martian from getting the optimal use of these powers. His JLA TA may not have gotten the snazzy overhaul that the similar Avengers TA has recently received, but it is helpful in getting forces in position in the early portion of games.

Detective John Jones also has his fair share of warts. A warning flag comes in the shape of his defense track where he starts with Toughness and must either push, or more likely get beaten into Invulnerability. By the time that power materializes, most of his best clicks are behind him. The preponderance of two (2) damage on his dial is also a great hindrance, especially on his first click. Due to that two (2) he will not be able to touch most of the figures in his price range or even those well below it. Relegating a 144 point character to take pot shots at figures with Toughness or less is sad in a way. To do big damage on that first click he’ll need to grab an object and base someone, which effectively prevents his Stealth from keeping him safe. Later in his dial, Perplex, Incap and Psy Blast all mitigate these low damage numbers to an extent, but they are problematic.

However, a choice is required so I will go with Experienced Martian Manhunter due to his better damage and attack numbers, better support powers, and greater mobility. He's much more of an offensive threat than the driving instructor Conehead or his clear and non-Conehead doppleganger. The PD TA that the Detective sports is a great addition to that figure, but its utility is not sufficient to overcome his relative motionlessness and his low damage. The Shape Change has potential as both an irritant and protection, however a real opportunity was lost when Shape Change and Super Senses didn’t coincide for even a single click. And that’s why the E Martian, as atypical a flying brick as he may be, is my choice. A slick see-through sculpt, no matter how sweet it is or how tiny it makes his calfs and thighs look, can only take one so far.

Quick and Dirty Price Tag
If you want to bring the Martian with the transparent sculpt but who yet has a surprising lack of Phasing and shortage of Stealth home, it’s going to run between $20 and $30 in most situations. He may not be the best Martian, but he is highly collectable.

That’s all for this week. Next week? Supergirl. Thanks for reading!

Ghost_Rider
03/22/2007, 15:23
Yeah, John Jones' first click really hurts his playability. He does have a nice twist to his sculpt and adds a new member for the Police though, which is something.

Too bad he didn't have a completely different sculpt, with a detective with glowing red eyes or something. That would have been so cool! :cool:

Keep up the great reviews ol_Dut.

Tylk
03/22/2007, 15:30
They both stink compared to the much cheaper and perhaps better Rookie.

hobgoblin22
03/22/2007, 15:35
Great review. One thing that may have to be taken into account in this case as well as future character reviews is the keywords. E Martian Manhunter has only 2, while Det. John Jones has 5. That can definitely add to playability under the new system.

ol_Dut
03/22/2007, 15:40
Too bad he didn't have a completely different sculpt, with a detective with glowing red eyes or something. That would have been so cool! :cool:


You know, I had the same idea. Five minutes with a knife, an extra Rookie Question, and a red Sharpie, and a spare flight board and some super glue gel solved the problem:cool: . It may not be as snazzy as the work of some of the mod bosses around here, but I like it.

And Tylk, I'm with you on the Rookie. In my opinion he's the most cost effective of the bunch, but picking him over the E or the LE would have kinda been cheating;) .

Sigdr
03/22/2007, 15:43
And Tylk, I'm with you on the Rookie. In my opinion he's the most cost effective of the bunch, but picking him over the E or the LE would have kinda been cheating;) .

Well, you did it for the OMAC 5674 review.... :p

Nice review. I'm inclined to disagree with you though, as the only time I played against an E Martian Manhunter I blasted the snot out of him (well, granted, I was using V Hawkman) but I've played against Detective Jones a few times and he's proven himself much tougher.

Though I agree that if efficiency is what you want, the R is the way to go.

CustomCreator
03/22/2007, 15:44
The only real consistent presence on the Justice League

I'm sorry, but no. The Martian Manhunter was completely absent from the Justice League for fifteen years.

anonym0use
03/22/2007, 15:54
I hate to be the party pooper, but Entangle's pre-req is Plasticity, and it doesn't look like either E or LE can benefit from it. I like the LE, and plan on using him as a tentpole for a PD swarm team (I'm fond of the PD). I'm going to put 1 card on him - Ambush. This will help out his AV, for a little bit anyway.

Ghost_Rider
03/22/2007, 16:00
I'm surprised slightly that there wasn't a Detective John Jones bystander.

epalicki
03/22/2007, 16:04
You get rep for the Elvis Costello reference!

GreenLantrn128
03/22/2007, 16:08
Nice review for my fellowship prize

Oldguynewbie
03/22/2007, 16:27
I'm sorry, but no. The Martian Manhunter was completely absent from the Justice League for fifteen years.

While it's true MM was absent for most (if not all, can't remember right now) of the satellite era, many folks consider that era's League a continuation of the Secret Sanctuary League, which MM was part of. By this reckoning, MM has been a presence on every version of the League at some time or other.

Ghost_Rider
03/22/2007, 16:55
I thought Martian Manhunter was a slender fellow? This sculpt looks like he's had 100 too many Twinkies.

Hey Richard Simmons, do you do Sweatin' to the Oldies for aliens?

Time to call Jenny Craig, Martian Manhunter... and please don't blame it on water retention.

:laugh:

But seriously though, how did that piece of crud sculpt get approved anyway? If you were having a hard time with it, tell them so they could hand it over to someone else. Only common sense man. :surprised

falcarrion
03/22/2007, 17:39
Isn't he from France?
Beside have you ever seen him drink and eat?

CustomCreator
03/22/2007, 18:20
While it's true MM was absent for most (if not all, can't remember right now) of the satellite era, many folks consider that era's League a continuation of the Secret Sanctuary League, which MM was part of. By this reckoning, MM has been a presence on every version of the League at some time or other.

A lot of young fans who started reading comics between 1969 and 1984 (and I include myself in that set) were only vaguely aware of who the Martian Manhunter was. You could count the number of appearances he made during those years on one hand.

CustomCreator
03/22/2007, 18:21
I thought Martian Manhunter was a slender fellow? This sculpt looks like he's had 100 too many Twinkies.

Hey Richard Simmons, do you do Sweatin' to the Oldies for aliens?

Time to call Jenny Craig, Martian Manhunter... and please don't blame it on water retention.

Maybe it's J'Onn J'Onzz as portrayed by David Ogden Stiers.

FlatFootedBoy
03/22/2007, 19:22
LE Detective John Jones
Team: Police Department
Range: 6 /
Points: 144
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal791621010173810163891638915378153781527714267142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Is the real dial. The first post missed his fourth click.
Nine clicks for 144 makes a pretty big difference, I think.

George Smiley
03/22/2007, 21:52
I like all of the sculpts I've seen in Origin except for two types. I can't stand the Martian Manhunter and the the Alan Scott /Sentinel/Green Lantern sculpts. And I can't understand why the staff at WIZKIDs didn't realize that these sculpts were so flawed, especially considering the prominence of both of these characters.

Like I said, I don't get it.

biz567
03/22/2007, 22:39
Nice Review, Dut!

I'm really liking the LE. Playing PD in 600 point games will be fun with him! Tag him up with some Blackhawks and you can just have a ball! Plus, BT on a swarm team is always great.

2 Gun Kid
03/22/2007, 23:09
O come on! Like we really need to do a compare to the Supergirls, the LE ducks!!! I like Det better. PD is AWESOME and they needed a brilliant tactician.

Grinner
03/22/2007, 23:43
While it's true MM was absent for most (if not all, can't remember right now) of the satellite era, many folks consider that era's League a continuation of the Secret Sanctuary League, which MM was part of. By this reckoning, MM has been a presence on every version of the League at some time or other.

It was most - he was still around for the construction of the satellite, and it was his return that destroyed it.

While J'onn was absent for a long time in real-world time, he was a member during each "era" of the League, which were generally shorter in comic-book-time.

So both Oldguynewbie and CustomCreator are right. I was reading JLA in the timeframe cited by CC and the reason I knew J'onn was from a couple of those old oversized reprints, not from his regular presence in the title.

Ville
03/23/2007, 04:25
I hate to be the party pooper, but Entangle's pre-req is Plasticity, and it doesn't look like either E or LE can benefit from it. I like the LE, and plan on using him as a tentpole for a PD swarm team (I'm fond of the PD). I'm going to put 1 card on him - Ambush. This will help out his AV, for a little bit anyway.

Werenīt they talking about Camouflage instead? That feat works with Shape Change, not Plasticity. Camouflage is a good card for him, as sometimes hindering terrain can be scarce, and objects are usually better used as weapons than hiding places.


I really dig John Jones. I never expected the PD getting such a big character, and I plan on using him a lot in the future. He isnīt your typical bruiser, but makes up for the little lack of strength with wits and cunning. Damage values never go very high, but he is capable of hurting anybody on his every click (Super Strength, PB etc), nevertheless. PD team ability seems to be one of the most undervalued in the game, but when used correctly, it can really give a huge advantage.

John Jones as a Brilliant Tactician is a very tempting option. PD figs are cheap and numerous, and with BT any overconfident brick-piece may soon regret coming too close. On the other hand, I tend to play BT pieces too cautiously, avoiding aggressive play to retain their Perplex. This can easily give the opponent an upper hand, especially if the figure costs 144 points and does nothing but lurk in the shadows! But again, practise is the key.

Great review. Keep īem coming!

Papa Smurf
03/23/2007, 05:05
I came so close to getting fellowship.

I came in second place at the Marquee, and the Judge had us roll randomly for FELLOWSHIP. Highest Roll gets it. Every one rolled highest so far was 8.
SO I rolled a 10 the highest so far.
the last guy rolls.....

12.

Damn.

Oh well it was a great Marquee...

Tiak
03/23/2007, 07:17
Well, At least he looks better when he's Invisible.:nervous:

CustomCreator
03/23/2007, 08:46
It was most - he was still around for the construction of the satellite, and it was his return that destroyed it.

Well, you're half right. It was his return that destroyed the satellite but he certainly was not around for its construction. J'Onn left the JLA, and Earth, in Justice League of America #71. The JLA moved to the satellite in JLA #78, following the compromise of their original headquarters in #77, so it was presumably constructed between those issues.

scholarx
03/23/2007, 10:15
Here are the dials of those in question.

#210 LEDetective John Jones
Team: Police Department
Range: 6 /
Points: 144
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal791621010173810163891638915378153781527714267142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
#083 E Martian Manhunter
Team: JLA
Range: 6 /
Points: 167
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal101016491016499153891538915389153891437813288132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

That’s all for this week. Next week? Supergirl. Thanks for reading!Truthfully, neither of these figs will be what anyone's looking to get for a 140pt+ expenditure. It seems lately that WK can get an affordable cost rookie done right, and an expensive yet appropriately powerful veteran done right, but they keep shafting the experienced versions. Many of the LEs seem to be variants of the exp. figs, so they suffer from this 'middle child' syndrome as well. I'm not saying these exp. versions should be more powerful - many of them seem appropriate to their characters... I'm saying let's just bring down the outrageous price tags! If a 135pt veteran Hawkman can bring 9clix to the table with 3 starting clix of above 10att and above 16def, I'm sure they can reduce the cost of the above 9clix figs, only one of which can boast even a single click with above 16def.:tired:
A preview of the Supergirl LE review:
For 2 more pts than her Exp. version she gets 4 less range, 1 less click, no Imperv, no RunShot, only one Charge click, overall lower combat values, and a less useful TA. Even the rookie Supergirl has one more click of life than the LE, and is still a better bargain despite her Battle Fury. The LE is yet another demonstration that the Superman Enemy TA needs to be seriously recosted (c'mon, it needs another adjacent team member to even be used, folks, it's not that hard!). In short, LE Supergirl stinks (but fanboys will still want to collect her for her dirtygirl costume:cheeky: ).

Ignatz_Mouse
03/23/2007, 11:58
I think it's worth noting that while the LE has some deficientcies for his cost, he's an excellent addition to the PD team (which also can really benefit from Brillian Tactician). For whatever reason, I like PD teams, and they've needed a flyer and brick for a long time.

Which his dial isn't stellar, he's pretty decent once pushed to click #2.

Also, another kudos for the Elvis Costello reference!

supermangl1
03/23/2007, 13:02
And if Jonn got fat from eating anything it was Oreos.... I picked this prize over the Supergirl, because it's Martian Manhunter.

Ville
03/23/2007, 13:07
And if Jonn got fat from eating anything it was Oreos.... I picked this prize over the Supergirl, because it's Martian Manhunter.

Me too. I didnīt hesitate for a second.

Supergirls are cool, but Detectives are deep-frosted...

The_Atom
03/23/2007, 17:04
I'm starting to think that players now-a-days only want fromtloaded beatsticks on their teams. It really pains me that "hulking figures" have almost no place in the world today.