The Trophy Room: Duo Damsel!

[ol_Dut]

http://www.hcrealms.com/units/or052.jpg
Betcha can't play just one!

As a native of the planet Cargg, Luornu Durgo could split herself into three separate but identical bodies. When one of Bouncing Boy’s blushing bride’s three selves was killed by Computo, she became Duo Damsel – and thus today’s LE was born. Typically, three of a kind beats a pair, but come on in to find out if that holds true as we put the one and only Duo Damsel through her paces!

Please click on “Read More” to read more!

[ol_Dut]

Here are the dials of the two ladies in question.

#204 LE Duo Damsel
Team: Legion
Range: 0 /
Points: 46
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal991628915288162881527714167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

#053 E Triplicate Girl
Team: Legion
Range: 0 /
Points: 50
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal88172810172891627916168161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

LE Duo Damsel’s Gains vs. Experienced Triplicate Girl
Duo Damsel makes four significant additions to her dial over the Experienced Triplicate Girl. First is the additional click of life. Second, increasing her mobility we have two clicks of Charge. To pack a little more zest into those Charge clicks we have one more click of two (2) damage. And lastly, we have three, count ‘em, three clicks of Combat Reflexes. On a flier. Maybe this is really a loss.

LE Duo Damsel’s Losses vs. Experienced Triplicate Girl
I guess it makes since that since she’s based on Triplicate Girl, there are three things that DD never gets on her dial. DD never sees any Perplex which is a big loss, she never hits a 10 attack, and she never reaches a 17 defense. That’s a lot of “nevers” for a miniscule four point difference. Not to be forgotten, DD is also down one click of Flurry versus Triplicate Girl. Not a lot of reductions, but they’re some big ones.

Neutral Dial Tinkering
The only real neutral dial action concerns Plasticity. That power bookends the LE’s dial, whereas it just grows in a clump at the bottom of E Triplicate Girl’s dial.

Cards That Work
In order to squeeze a little more out of DD, her Combat Reflexes and Plasticity need to perform beyond the PAC. Entangle provides her some slight protection from close combat attacks by giving her a 33% chance to void the action. If mobile attacks, either near or far are a concern, Heightened Reflexes gives her a chance to evade Running Shot, Charge, Hypersonic Speed and transporter attacks. And lastly, again courtesy of Combat Reflexes, Vault allows her to move around her target after a close combat action to potentially keep her away from others who would seek to target her.

If ol_Dut had to Choose
LE Duo Damsel vs. Experienced Triplicate Girl? If I were to play Duo Damsel, I would want to use her Plasticity to snarl up two or more opponents, holding them in place while the real offensive bread and butter of my team danced all around and dusted them from distance. The problem with this, however is her Combat Reflexes ; a power that’s pretty good on grounded figures but is little more than a cruel joke on fliers. A quick push makes Double D more capable herself with Flurry and two (2) damage, but then her defense drops to 15 with Combat Reflexes. Another push or a click of damage finally puts her on a useful defensive power, Willpower, and it arrives with Charge. The problem is, however, that she’s likely already locked up in close combat. Since her damage values are low, she’s going to be working on her foes like an all day sucker and will likely have no place that she needs to Charge to since the bad guys will already be right in front of her. Things only get more pear-shaped from there. DD’s defense decreases, and she suffers from diminished attack numbers and dwindling damage. The other downside, is that as an LE, playing two Duo Damsels would be comic book accurate but strictly forbidden in Approved Play. And that eliminates that last bit of potential fun from this figure.

That’s why I’ll stick with Experienced Triplicate Girl. She can taxi a buddy up to an enemy, keeping herself adjacent to the bad guy and her fare a square back. Then she can push to Flurry the next turn while her ride blasts away from range and their opponent is forced to burn actions on Triplicate Girl. A modest hit, or turning off Willpower and pushing again will land her squarely on Perplex and more Willpower, giving her the ability to contribute offensively and to the greater good of the team.

While there may be some compelling reasons to date Duo Damsel, there aren’t that many reasons to put her on the map. Not when Experienced Triplicate Girl is around. With better attack values, better defensive numbers , upfront Flurry and backloaded Perplex, Triplicate Girl has something to offer in every stage of the game.

Quick and Dirty Price Tag
Right now one Duo Damsel will set you back about $15. That’s a high price to pay for her utility. And don’t even think about dropping $30 to get two DD’s for your at-home theme teams. Wait for her to drop down to Jervis Tetch’s price range before you get that kind of crazy.

That’s all for this week. Thanks for reading!

[Greenandgold]

$15? I'll sell mine for 10!

Or trade for a good Vet or a mediocre Unique. Any takers? Please?

Nice review and spot on analysis of why she is just going to collect dust on the shelf.

[theanalogkid]

Great article and I agree completely. I still want one, though.

[kh2003]

i'll trade my for a vet mister miracle anyday!!

[Sigdr]

She isn't going to be collecting dust on my shelf. When I get her, I will play her. She'll be a Batbuddy, so she can get full use out of those Reflexes.

[batjester]

Good review, but I don't see any clicks of 3 damage on either fig. Did you mean an extra 2 damage?

[BionicBoy]

I just got back from a tournament where 11 (ELEVEN!!!) people showed up, half of them not knowing what the prize was, and I was the only one who wanted it. Luckily I won fellowship...

[Monkey Joe]

Good review. But I'll stick with the Rookie rather than play either of these :) . She's got the up front plasticity and 17 defense for only 35 points.

[tidge]

This is definitely a piece that will need to take advantage of it's Wild Card TA to maximize utility. Teamed appropriately with a Batman Ally, she'll be an annoying taxi.

Really the only thing that comes to my mind for her is that her Movement Values start good, and stay good....and the extra click of life can mean a little bit more pain if she is a Mystic.

I'm still disappointed that there wasn't a single version of this REV+LE that was a non-flier...it would have been nice to have a Duo-Damsel/Triplicate Girl/Mono-Lass that could carry herself.

From a historical LSH POV, I'm disappointed we didn't get the slightly different paint jobs of the L* era, or that we didn't get an "espionage squad" version or a "I've got Brainiac 5's force-field" version.

[Skarn]

Since Combat Reflexes is (usually) easily avoided, I would think that tossing Entangle could be a waste of points, since it can be just as easily avoided.

[2 Gun Kid]

Yeah House ruled so that u can play 2 of her on ur team.

And if a rules stickler doesnt like it then take it up with SETH!

[mr-coffin]

I still want two of the LEs.

[Spike501]

Not much to do with this review, but any flyer with Combat Reflexes can be made much better by adding 1 point. Have them carry around a Lian Harper to also base their opponent with. They won't be able to make a ranged attack with a non-flyer also adjacent to them. Then they either have to waste an action on a 1 point pog or else deal with the +2 defense from combat reflexes.

[Ville]

Is it just me, but does it seem like Origin LE's are not much to speak of. Martian Manhunter and Shazam! are both nice and collectable pieces, but offer very little for a competitive player.

And who in the world chooses which REV's get a LE version? Animal Master? Triplicate Girl? Why didn't they give us LE Steel or Mirror Master, for example?

But anyway, a nice article as always. She might not be the hottest figure out there, but I'll still try my best to win her.

[scholarx]

Not much to do with this review, but any flyer with Combat Reflexes can be made much better by adding 1 point. Have them carry around a Lian Harper to also base their opponent with. They won't be able to make a ranged attack with a non-flyer also adjacent to them. Then they either have to waste an action on a 1 point pog or else deal with the +2 defense from combat reflexes.
This only works if the enemy fig you want to base is grounded like Lian. If you're basing another flier, they can still choose to make ranged attacks no matter what's adjacent (again nullifying the usefulness of CR). I'd personally opt for a Stealth TA to copy as well... but playing a wildcard force just begs the Disbanded card to be played against it these days, putting Duo back at square one.:disappoin

[Ville]

This only works if the enemy fig you want to base is grounded like Lian. If you're basing another flier, they can still choose to make ranged attacks no matter what's adjacent (again nullifying the usefulness of CR). I'd personally opt for a Stealth TA to copy as well... but playing a wildcard force just begs the Disbanded card to be played against it these days, putting Duo back at square one.:disappoin

DD can always try to choose her targets. If she has a choice to tie up a ranged figure, or one that has none, she should go for the latter one. She is very cheap, so one can afford her being a little picky with her "targets".

[epalicki]

an REV set of Triplicate Girl adds up to exactly 150 pts...perfect to play with characters from the Legion starter...the same can"t be said for DD...

Nice review. I'm glad to know that missing this week's tourney on account of my girlfriend's birthday won't sting as much as it would if the prize were Carter Hall or Ray Palmer or Guardian of Eternity...

[ShellShock]

I think both pieces stink, but maybe putting pounce on the E would help me get some use out of her


CR with flight = awful, perplex someones range to a measly 1 and all you need to hit is a 16 defense, not that hard

[epalicki]

I think both pieces stink, but maybe putting pounce on the E would help me get some use out of her


CR with flight = awful, perplex someones range to a measly 1 and all you need to hit is a 16 defense, not that hard

The REVs are great for their points...

CR + Flight=not ideal, no.

CR + Flight + Wild Card = Not so bad. As someone said above, bat ally makes that power combination much more effective.

[anonym0use]

LE Duo Damsel vs. Experienced Triplicate Girl? If I were to play Duo Damsel, I would want to use her Plasticity to snarl up two or more opponents, holding them in place while the real offensive bread and butter of my team danced all around and dusted them from distance. The problem with this, however is her Combat Reflexes ; a power that’s pretty good on grounded figures but is little more than a cruel joke on fliers.


Help me understand something here, because I hear this argument a *lot.*
I'm not sure why everyone is down on fliers with Combat Reflexes, and champions grounded figs with CR. It seems like two sides of the same coin to me - a grounded figure with CR is just as capable of being shot by an adjacent flier, and therefore isn't "better" than any other. Being a flier with CR just means you'll have to be choosey who to base. I played a team around Animal Master and was very effective by picking who to base, determined mostly by my opponents range values.

Of course if you have stealth and are in hindering, it makes no difference 90% of the time as lines of fire can't be drawn to you (the other 10% accounting for Supes/Ultimates or Bright Lights). Duo Damsel can be an effective tie up piece if she's copying the Bat Ally TA, and Allen the Alien is probably really mean when Merc'd to Bat Ally - though I don't have an Allen, so I don't know for sure.

But I'd like for someone to explain why being grounded with CR is better than flying with CR...

[Rurouni KJS]

But I'd like for someone to explain why being grounded with CR is better than flying with CR...

Basically, the boot speed CR fig can base any grounded fig and still get the defensive boost, while the flying CR fig has to base 0-range enemies to use its defensive power.

[Ville]

Combat Reflexes usually suit grounded figures better. That is because grounded figures cannot make any ranged combat attacks if other grounded figures are adjacent. If they want to attack, they'll have to do it in close combat and therefore suffer the higher defense value granted by CR.

Of course, if attacking figure is a flyer with range, it won't matter as it can just shoot. That is, unless that figure couldn't cause more damage by a melee attack, for example, with Close Combat Expert.

[epalicki]

But I'd like for someone to explain why being grounded with CR is better than flying with CR...

It's only a marginal difference, really: a non-flier in B2B contact with another character only has to worry about ranged attacks if the adjacent character can fly. A flier can be the target of ranged attacks from both adjacent fliers and non-fliers.

Is CR ideal on a Flier? No.

Is it bad? No.

Does it just take some care when building teams or when choosing who to base? Sure.

Is Allen the Alien way sweet? Indeed.

(most of this, you already said. I was just reiterating.)

[Oldguynewbie]

When one of Bouncing Boy’s blushing bride’s three selves was killed by Computo, she became Duo Damsel – and thus today’s LE was born.[/I]

Point of order:

Computo killed one of the girls BEFORE the wedding of Bouncing Boy and Duo Damsel!

[Buddyhoss]

I wish my wife could split into two or three of herself.

[zero_cochrane]

I can't say that I'd really want to play either of them. If I want a wildcard taxi for <51 points, why wouldn't I go for R Brainiac 5 instead?

[tidge]

Combat Reflexes on fliers is sort of the flip side of multi-targets (or other range-attack specific powers like PW or RCE) on non-fliers.

The biggest issue I have with these powers is that they don't appear to be costed substantially different for fliers/non-fliers, when there are clear examples in each case of the power working for one character and not another. The best way to address both sides of this problem (if indeed it is a problem that the powers are costed the same for fliers/non-fliers) is very straightforward: base-to-base contact (or better yet, adjacency..to help giants...) should mean no ranged combat attacks between adjacent figures. We are already part way there, as opponents on diagonals cannot target each other if they are in a 'square' of four figures.

[epalicki]

Combat Reflexes on fliers is sort of the flip side of multi-targets (or other range-attack specific powers like PW or RCE) on non-fliers.

The biggest issue I have with these powers is that they don't appear to be costed substantially different for fliers/non-fliers, when there are clear examples in each case of the power working for one character and not another. The best way to address both sides of this problem (if indeed it is a problem that the powers are costed the same for fliers/non-fliers) is very straightforward: base-to-base contact (or better yet, adjacency..to help giants...) should mean no ranged combat attacks between adjacent figures. We are already part way there, as opponents on diagonals cannot target each other if they are in a 'square' of four figures.

I'd agree with that.

I almost came to blows with a Wizard (NOT Wizkids) employee at WWLA over this argument. He clearly didn't know how to play the game very well, and tried to tell me that I couldn't target his adjacent Superwoman LE with my Sunfire. When the five other players at the Kill-and-Keep table sided with me, I thought he was going to cry.

[Ghost_Rider]

Come and knock on our door...

Come and knock on our door...

We've been waiting for you...

We've been waiting for you...

Sorry, got a little carried away there. Anyhoo, great review. Double D really isn't as good, but I do like how she is quite a bit different from the others - and that gives you multiple options during team construction.

I tried to give you some rep by the way, but it wouldn't let me. I need to spread some around first. ;)

[Vevilaughs]

I wanted to take a look at the complete set of REV and see if Duo Damsel fit better in that mix, but the LE is lackluster.

There is just something of a fun visual with the E being in soaring and popping a grounded figure for 2 because she made her 2 dupes "pop" out and smack you and then got reabsorbed. Also, the fact that the E could use Pounce (and wouldn't have to worry about terrain) is another added plus.

That she finishes off with Perplex is a nice bonus. A lot of the Legion pieces suffer from lowish AVs. It's nice to see a piece that can be used to help her teammates out til the very end.

Pounce Questions: As a flyer, could she also carry someone with her while making a Pounce attack? I like Ponce, but I often feel I've sacrificed that piece for the greater good. Knowing I could carry a body guard with me would be an added benefit.

[adamical]

I definitely agree with Tidge- ranged combat should not be allowed in adjacency. It doesn't make sense, and fliers don't need that boost. If you're next to me, then no usage of RCE or Psychic Blast. Seems simple enough. Just like if you're four squares away, no usage of CCE or EW.

Try explaining to a new player why his grounded R Kang can't use RCE because I based him with a figure with toughness, but why my flying character can.

[adamical]

Also, a lot of people talk about playing multiple Duo Damsels or Triplicate Girls, but isn't the dial supposed to represent multiple people? That's why she has flurry, willpower, plasticity, etc.- the dials represent two or three girls fighting.

[archaon02]

I don't understand why so many people seem to ignore the added protection Combat Reflexes gives figures against B/C/F, CCE, and Super Strength characters. Just because the can still shoot you unhindered doesn't mean that that's how they want to be attacking you. I understand that on a flyer CReflexes can be circumvented, but there are many situations where that hamstrings my opponents offensive capability as much as it hamstrings my defensive capability.

[ol_Dut]

I don't understand why so many people seem to ignore the added protection Combat Reflexes gives figures against B/C/F, CCE, and Super Strength characters. Just because the can still shoot you unhindered doesn't mean that that's how they want to be attacking you. I understand that on a flyer CReflexes can be circumvented, but there are many situations where that hamstrings my opponents offensive capability as much as it hamstrings my defensive capability.

Agreed. To get the most from the power you must carefully pick and choose where you put DD to leverage her CR and limit or remove the threat of ranged attacks. The power isn't useless on her, it will just be challenging to derrive the full benefit from it - and sometimes I don't want that kind of challenge. My opponent and my dice are usually challenge enough:laugh: .

[dariusq]

From a theme perspective alone I'm glad they made her. What puzzles me more is how they came up with the LE's dial when any of her REVs is so much better. Simply mirroring the Es powers would have been more useful. Or instead of CR why not ESD?

[dariusq]

There is just something of a fun visual with the E being in soaring and popping a grounded figure for 2 because she made her 2 dupes "pop" out and smack you and then got reabsorbed. Also, the fact that the E could use Pounce (and wouldn't have to worry about terrain) is another added plus.

Pounce Questions: As a flyer, could she also carry someone with her while making a Pounce attack? I like Ponce, but I often feel I've sacrificed that piece for the greater good. Knowing I could carry a body guard with me would be an added benefit.

She can't Pounce because she doesn't have L/C. There's an error on the dials in this post: those opening clix of L/C on the E Triplicate Girl are supposed to be Flurry. If you read the review there's no mention of L/C either.

As for your question, a flier with L/C can carry a passenger while Pouncing. To my knowledge there is only one fig that has this unique combination: R Trickster(CD).

[dariusq]

I'm still disappointed that there wasn't a single version of this REV+LE that was a non-flier...it would have been nice to have a Duo-Damsel/Triplicate Girl/Mono-Lass that could carry herself.

Get use to it. Because the LoSH have standard issue flight rings they're all going to be fliers (for most of their dials anyways) which means it's going to be harder to field them as a team. This is especially true since there's only one member with TK(Cosmic Boy).

Generally I use Triplicate Girl/Duo Damsel to taxi in my Multiple Men/Madrox.

[Vevilaughs]

You expect me to read, when I have pretty colors to look at? Thanksfor answering my question.

Now, she's not as fun either. I was having fun picturing her doing tricrobatics along with her trijitsu.

[uss_Titans]

I wish my wife could split into two or three of herself.

Wow. This is a tough one. If my lady split in three.....Thats mean three times the naggings, three times the head-aches, three times the complaints and I have to performed three times a days......Thats going to cut into my heroclix times. Not good at all.:ermm: :ermm:

[Buddyhoss]

Wow. This is a tough one. If my lady split in three.....Thats mean three times the naggings, three times the head-aches, three times the complaints and I have to performed three times a days......Thats going to cut into my heroclix times. Not good at all.:ermm: :ermm:

You're a "glass half-empty" type aren't you? :)

[uss_Titans]

Dude!
I would be glad if I have a couple drops in my glass.