Darkseid is...not that easy to use?

[SaferSephiroth]

I don't get it. He's undercosted and can really deal the pain. At no point is he terrible - his Omega clicks are so powerful it's disappointing when he drops to 4 damage without Psyblast.

So why do I have so little success with him? I realize he's not as powerful as he could be, but a nice 181 point cost should make up for that, right? Also, I don't know whether to keep him on his top clicks or get him to the Omega Beams ASAP.

So what I'm asking for is tips on making him as feared as he was back in the day. Thanks.

[tak]

I played him with some succes with a TKer, and perplex, he can't move and attack so you should TK him in the middle of the map in order fr him to have line of fire to most of his enemies... then you could push him to attack or wait to be harmed... it all depens on the game, if you can hurt some enemy on his second attack, go for it, remember he has outwit so all of his damage will go through damage reducers, if you think it's wise, push him... and deliver the pain... or wait and see if someone wants to hit you to your PB clicks...
try to bring the TKer next to him right away... vet super ape is a good choice to be his partner...
I hope it helps!

[4RAGER]

I don't get it. He's undercosted and can really deal the pain. At no point is he terrible - his Omega clicks are so powerful it's disappointing when he drops to 4 damage without Psyblast.

So why do I have so little success with him? I realize he's not as powerful as he could be, but a nice 181 point cost should make up for that, right? Also, I don't know whether to keep him on his top clicks or get him to the Omega Beams ASAP.

So what I'm asking for is tips on making him as feared as he was back in the day. Thanks.


I FEEL YOUR PAIN.
He is my fav DC villain, and such bad-### mo-fo to boot...
... and yet, I've probably only had 1 lousy victory with him.
... and the victory came from a team with Supernova Thanos on it.
For a pefect example of my misery,
see here:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188443

[I Am The Game]

Keep him on the top clicks. Belting someone with an object for 6 is not an opportunity to be missed, but there are three good reasons not to push:

1 - chances are you're not fielding another Outwitter, so you may as well make the most of it.

2 - a 10 attack/17 defense is much more of a psychological barrier to attacking him than a 9 attack/16 defense, even if he's Impervious on both. His second click entices your opponent to put a secondary attacker in base-to-base, or in the line of fire to take a shot. If that attacker misses, he'll probably think that Darkseid's retaliation with a 9 attack isn't a guaranteed hit, and if Darkseid does connect, that fig becomes tie up/fodder. On the 10 attack click, your opponent is more worried about losing his fig in one shot if he misses without gaining anything from the exchange.

3 - Darkseid is only good on the first half of his dial, so you'll want to milk those for as long as you can.

The 5 damage Psychic Blast is almost more of a deterrent to attacking Darkseid. You will not see many figures challenge Darkseid one-on-one, because they don't want to take the "guaranteed" 5 clicks back. The key to fielding Darkseid is to use the 12 range to keep opponents from approaching, and place his minions in a way that keeps your opponent from dogpiling him.

[4RAGER]

REP'd ya for this one.

[commiefascist]

Keep him on the top clicks. Belting someone with an object for 6 is not an opportunity to be missed, but there are three good reasons not to push:

1 - chances are you're not fielding another Outwitter, so you may as well make the most of it.

2 - a 10 attack/17 defense is much more of a psychological barrier to attacking him than a 9 attack/16 defense, even if he's Impervious on both. His second click entices your opponent to put a secondary attacker in base-to-base, or in the line of fire to take a shot. If that attacker misses, he'll probably think that Darkseid's retaliation with a 9 attack isn't a guaranteed hit, and if Darkseid does connect, that fig becomes tie up/fodder. On the 10 attack click, your opponent is more worried about losing his fig in one shot if he misses without gaining anything from the exchange.

3 - Darkseid is only good on the first half of his dial, so you'll want to milk those for as long as you can.

The 5 damage Psychic Blast is almost more of a deterrent to attacking Darkseid. You will not see many figures challenge Darkseid one-on-one, because they don't want to take the "guaranteed" 5 clicks back. The key to fielding Darkseid is to use the 12 range to keep opponents from approaching, and place his minions in a way that keeps your opponent from dogpiling him.

He is the game, it would seem.

[starr226]

I've found, historically, if you set darkseid down on a map he becomes a focus immediately. that might be what's hurting your success.
(put another toughy behind him and watch THAT guy clean house)

[KCWindham]

I echo I Am The Game's statements. I actually just played V Darkseid for the first time in a tourney yesterday, and won the first 3 of 4 rounds. I got a little overconfident in the final round and threw him into the close-combat fray, and a well-played meteorite is what ended up being the reason for his demise (meaning you should definitely use his 12 range to your advantage). He was also backed up with Fortitude and a lot of help from his Apokalips buddies; like I Am The Game says, use his minions to your advantage. Here is my team:

Unrestricted, 500 pts, DC only, all heroes or all villians.

V Darkseid w/ Fortitude
U Kalibak
U Desaad w/ Thwart (Thwarting was his biggest asset; I rarely needed the second Outwit)
V Parademon Scout
V Parademon Warrior
E Parademon Scout
E Parademon Warrior

None of the three victories was a landslide, mind you; all were very close and relied on some luck of the dice. The judge suggested I take out some Parademons and throw in some PC, and I agree with him. But anyway, I think he's a great piece, and I hope this helps.

[Vevilaughs]

Darkseid tips:

1) Give him the desk to start with. While he should be played at ranged, the desk's +2 defense option will help you dodge/deter bigger hit figures.

2) To push or not to push. If you feel you are going to push Darkseid to get to the creamy middle, then you need to play Shellhead with him.

3) Park him in hindering... preferrably on an exterior building. Actually any "higher ground" can help Darksied since he will not be shooting through Hindering Terrain, and now he has a better chance with Stealth.

4) Barrier may help more than TK. With Barrier, you can use it strategically to "un-base" Darkseid if you have a better target.

Supes

D X
X Bat

If you put up a Barrier on the X spots, Darksied is no longer in base to base contact with Batman and can now aim at Superman.

My opening salvo with Darksied would be for him to carry some support with him, grab the desk and park himself on hindering. Now, if he needs it, he can be at a 19 or 20 DV. That, paired with his range gives him great control of the map.

Depending on your pt level, I would pair him with:

R or E Blackfire w. Vendetta. She is great clean-up for his opening attack and she can be carried.

A cheap Barrier piece (Pyro ??) and/or a cheap PC piece.

[Miraclo]

He's one of those characters who becomes too easily vulnerable to Outwitters, especially Stealthed ones. So, the choice seems to be between choosing the right support pieces to take out those threats and Feats to directly enhance and/or protect Darkseid himself.

Both can be done, of course, depending on the build for the game.

So, does anyone look at him and think first about Feats to make him more as he should be? Fortitude comes immediately to mind. Sure, it's 25 points more, kicking him over the 200 pt mark, but at least then he gets to hold onto the powers he's paying for, along with protecting him from Exploit Weakness. I was surprised to see only one person mention it so far. It can't be retirement, since Fortitude and Darkeseid will each be bowing out at the same moment from the restricted game.

Granted, I tend to get more hung up on doing what I can to make the clix version as much like the comics version than, well, actually building a winning team, so I'll certainly bow to the wonderful points others have offered. :)

[fox007]

I love darksied too, so most of what im gonna say has been said. first u do need tk. it is a must for him if u r gonna use him affectivly, second have what i call "distraction" also known as support. pieces that are cheaper but equally threaten. ie blackfire or bullseye or whomever fitts ur fancy, finally take advange of his 12 range, sit him back and fire away, and feel free to push. also u can use mercanary on him and merc him to batman or my fav master of evil. id go w/ masters of evil then u can continue to lay pressure on and get him to his five damage clicks faster.

[Vevilaughs]

I love darksied too, so most of what im gonna say has been said. first u do need tk. it is a must for him if u r gonna use him affectivly, second have what i call "distraction" also known as support. pieces that are cheaper but equally threaten. ie blackfire or bullseye or whomever fitts ur fancy, finally take advange of his 12 range, sit him back and fire away, and feel free to push. also u can use mercanary on him and merc him to batman or my fav master of evil. id go w/ masters of evil then u can continue to lay pressure on and get him to his five damage clicks faster.


In order to merc him, you need him next to a piece with the TA that is more expensive than Darkseid.

For Batman, only NGN Superman would work, and only at 500 pts, because with only NGN and Superman, the card costs 20 pts.

You can merc him to MoE with only IC Kang (not great for the points) or IC Ultron (better, but sags fast too).

[theanalogkid]

I tend to let my opponent hit him if they wish.

[BigSoph]

I am still perturbed they did not give him RCE

COME ON! OMEGA BLAST? How many freaking times has this power zipped around other people, obstructions and corners to strike its target?

[SaferSephiroth]

Darkseid could totally cook Batman for seven.

And he can sense guys who sneak up behind him, and the Omegas know no barriers - not even time and space.

Totally agree. Rep for Soph.

[St. Cuthbert]

I think one of the best feats for Darkseid is actually ICWO. On his starting click, a 10 attack is just a little too low for me, an 11 is just right. Later on in his dial, when his stats get higher, that +1 is useful to either make the PB hurt just a little more or make your attack a little bit higher.

I personally feel that you should keep Darkseid at range, but give him an object in case anyone is foolish enough to close. If you have line of sight to an opposing brick, don't be afraid to keep pushing him. Darkseid deals out tons of damage and giving him 2 clicks in exchange for giving your opponent 8 or 10 is totally worth it.

You need a decent support team to make Darkseid work effectively, but luckily he's fairly cheap, so that's pretty easy. You should have a PCer, to make sure Darkseid's attacks hit. You can have a medic, but oftentimes you end up not using it, either because Darkseid doesn't need the healing, or he's based with an opposing figure. The rest of your points should go to cheap secondary attackers, who can tie up your opponent's army and allow Darkseid to pick them off one massive blow at a time.

A TKer is also good, but Darkseid's massive range can make up for the lack of one.

[dariusq]

Darkseid, like the new Thanos, is a great fig but requires a little more support than some other tentpoles. His greatest weakness is that average-at-best DV. Because his offensive ability is so high Darkseid usually has a big target on him as the biggest threat. Even with 12 range, without any move&attack a good mobile ranger will be able to get first cracks. Try to keep him on his upper dial so if you do get hit it's into better clix. You'll also retain Phasing and Outwit that way.

[rollinsolo]

I have thought about playing him with mercenary and usint t-bolts to superman TA so he can see through hindering for psy blast.

[St. Cuthbert]

I have thought about playing him with mercenary and usint t-bolts to superman TA so he can see through hindering for psy blast.

Yeah, except to use Mercenary on him he would need to be next to someone of a higher point value than himself. I guess that might be a good plan for the rookie, but for the experienced and veteran, that's just too many points to be effective, IMO

[Zephyr Dude]

I played a theme team with the Darkseid Vet recently! It was fun and...somewhat effective. But I emphasize FUN!

Darkseid V................181
+ Mercenary..........20
SoD Supes...............223
+ Repulsor Shield...25
+ Hold the Line......4
Desaad...................47

= 500 points

[4RAGER]

I really hope that the new Justice League set has a U) Darkseid with...
Quintessance!!!
If they can make a Thanos with power Cosmic...
then we really should see a Q TA Darkseid.


Speaking of...

has anyone tried taking on Thanos with Darkseid...?

[Devon_v]

In order to merc him, you need him next to a piece with the TA that is more expensive than Darkseid.

For Batman, only NGN Superman would work, and only at 500 pts, because with only NGN and Superman, the card costs 20 pts.

You can merc him to MoE with only IC Kang (not great for the points) or IC Ultron (better, but sags fast too).

My favorite at 500 is V Darkseid, Mercenary, and The Man of Steel. Now there's nowhere to hide from the Omega Effect, Darkseid has 18 DV for his whole dial, and Supes has someone to hide behind so he can stay on HSS/Defend and just dumpsterize anyone who tries to get close to Darkseid.

[Batmandu]

I really hope that the new Justice League set has a U) Darkseid with...
Quintessance!!!
If they can make a Thanos with power Cosmic...
then we really should see a Q TA Darkseid.

And if they do remake him then he should have a Special Power for those those cool around-the-corner Omega Beam shots. Maybe something allowing him to shoot any target within range, the shot moving through any non-blocking terrain.

Just so long as he doesn't take a click of damage for doing it...



Okay it would make him a monster, but come on, Darkseid.

[St. Cuthbert]

I played a theme team with the Darkseid Vet recently! It was fun and...somewhat effective. But I emphasize FUN!

Darkseid V................181
+ Mercenary..........20
SoD Supes...............223
+ Repulsor Shield...25
+ Hold the Line......4
Desaad...................47

= 500 points

Awesome theme! If only I had SOD Supes...

[SaferSephiroth]

Dude, I never realized SoD is more points and has the nifty Superman Ally. Finally it's good for something.

Now those Omegas are as they should be. Oh happy day.

[Kylun]

I always pack the infiltration BFC when i play him. It's incredibly nice to start the game able to tag stuff 19 squares away without ever moving. I also echo the importance of parademons to tie people up so he can keep reigning down the pain. Plus it's just too cool when a parademon actually manages to incap someone.

[Dr.HellCustom]

Oh how true all of the laments we have for the DC's supervillain supreme.
I've never had luck in playing Darkseid in an actual tourney. His beginning 10AV just don't cut it... or I just really make terrible rolls.

I really hate comparisons to Thanos. So killing Thanos was and will always be the highlight of my V Darkseid's career. (Featless too!)
In my experience he plays well with an E Manhunter (Lashina!?) and any version of Cheetah (MadHarriet!?) to overcome stealth. Excellent fire support from an E Blackfire (Artemis!?) and TK from R Aleta (BloodyMary!?)

...and I wish I had Parademons....

I will also be eagerly awaiting a NEW UNIQUE Darkseid. Complete with Omega Beams and Boomtubes.:knockedou

[ShellShock]

I don't own the vet, but went 2-1 with the E before.

Like everyone says, use him at range. I always had him parked with a Jinx there to prob control the misses and the hits against him.

I feel he works better in high point games, but in lower ones you can make a lot of him with many a tie up figure.

I also dont find it too hard to take him out. 2 good hits with a main attacker will leave him vulnerable to anyones attacks

[ichaboddanger]

I have a post about this you can click my name to search for it. Might be more help there.

I have tried him a few times, and he does fairly well. Not amazing like i would think. I give him two Blackhawks on either side, to give him +2 ranged attacks. They can hold their own as well.

Also you should think about what i like to call the outwit advantage. Lets say you go first, you move your troops onto the battlefield, then your opponent goes. If he has someone with outwit, he can outwit your outwit. So sometimes it is better to go second. You have to think about if he's going to push though, things like that.

But yeah i haven't tried keeping him at 12 range. I would really like to know if that works th ough.