HCR Rates The Movies #153: CITIZEN KANE

[DTM]

So, our next film, Classic or Crud, Hit or Miss, what say you ALL?

Our next film open for discussion, and ultimately an Overall RATING by you all:

CITIZEN KANE
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Let the discussions flow. Likes, dislikes, classic film or overhyped trash, and DONT FORGET to place an Overall Rating when youre done.

Its easy, just give a Rating from 1 (Jaws 4:The Revenge) to 10 (Jaws), and thats it. Course I'd love to have you all give reasons as to why you feel it deserves this Overall Rating, and more than encourage discussions with us all about them.

So, what say you all?

Next Film: ??????

[Rokk_Krinn]

Wow. This is one of those movies that I almost "hold off" on voting for because I know once I get to talking about the film I could - quite literally - write a book and I hate subjecting you guys to that.

"Citizen Kane" regularly appears as the #1 Film of All-Time and it's for very good reason. It is an excellent story - and one that was somewhat risky to tell at the time as it's "portrayal" of William Randolph Hearst created a powerful enemy (in fact, Hearst's newspapers carried no mention of the film's release) - and is a triumph of filmmaking spirit and innovation. Those last two points are the ones upon which I'm going to focus.

The film was codenamed "RKO 281" (on a sidenote, I recommend the movie of that name which tells the creation of "Citizen Kane") because Welles wanted to ensure privacy not just from the public but the studio executives as well. Everyone felt Welles was surely putting together something along the lines of his "War of the Worlds" broadcast and the idea that he was actually creating a drama - "a slow drama" in some people's eyes - that was also a scatching attack on Hearst would have caused Welles no end of trouble. Welles though managed to get the film made despite many trials and tribulations and it is important to note that he was involved with every single step of the film, from the writing of it to the directing to the production, editing, etc. - you could almost say "Citizen Kane" is Orson Welles' homonculous.

Innovation-wise, Welles not only took into account many acclaimed styles of film-making and combined them together - arguably for the first time - but also added in many new styles and techniques, such as episodic sequence telling and the first time that deep focus was heavily used and for extended periods (it wasn't the first film to use deep focus, it was just the first film to really use it to such wide extent and versatility). Several new camera techniques and special effects methods - ones that would be used heavily by Hollywood thereafter - were created for "Citizen Kane", as well as new audio (aurial) methods. There are many more than the ones I've listed - there's a reason this film is cited as the Most Innovative and Important Film time after time - but that should give someone an idea.

Those two factors - spirit and innovation - should be enough to already boost Kane's rating to astronomical levels (even including the -.5 deduction for the lack of a "Wrath of God" strike sequence :cheeky: ) but the story, itself, is wonderfully wrought and the acting is superb. This was one of the first times on the Silver Screen that you had a protagonist that you weren't supposed to like yet you still found yourself feeling for him and it also gives one an introspective journey.

Okay, I'm going to spare you guys...like I said, I could literally write for days upon this and still not do the film justice. D, this is one of the few times I'll argue that "10" just isn't high enough for a flick (especially since seeing 10's tossed around willy-nilly for "new hotness" means this film should be allowed its' own ratings system as the two just should not be associated). Nontheless, I'll adhere to the rules and give it a perfect score with the caveat that I feel it literally is the definition of -the perfect score-.

Score: 10.0 and then some.

[spacedye]

I honestly don't know what to say about this movie. What can be said that isn't an understatement? I am generally not a fan of the "classics". I find that many of them have aged poorly. In a time of fast women and hot cars, a lot of older movies are hard to take down. A good example of this, in my opinion, is Lawrence of Arabia. I was told time and time again that it's the greatest epic of all time, and it's captivating and fantastic. I rented it and watched it, and while I can't doubt it's exceptional cinematography, I felt that the story could have been told in a more compact way. A good movie? Of course, and undoubtedly a classic, but I don't think it stands up as well today as it did in the 60s. Just one mans opinion I'm sure. So when it came time to watch Citizen Kane I was dreading an over-hyped movie. Before seeing it for the very first time it was hyped more than anything else I've ever been a part of. "The greatest motion picture of all time." "Perfect in every way". I was ready for a snooze-fest. Boy was I wrong.

Citizen Kane achieves what every other film attempts. Where others fall flat on the acting, lighting, pacing, framing, and every other aspect of filmmaking, Kane knocks everything out of the park. The brilliant usage of shadows through the movie is breathtaking. The early scene in a screening room, with smoke bellowing through the air and a projector's light up above is just brilliant. It might be the most gorgeous shot in all of cinema, topping the aforementioned Lawrence of Arabia's desert treks.

For being a movie made in the early 40s, it does not come off as an "old" movie. It is very modern in appearance and style. Many major techniques used today were pioneered with Kane. As was mentioned, deep focus was used heavily here and in such ways that had never been done before. On the surface the movie is a technical masterpiece, but if you look deeper you find so much more. It's a movie that can be watched time and time again and new things discovered with each viewing. It is a movie that gives back to you what you put into it. If you sit down and watch it on a surface level for a good time, you'll probably enjoy the movie very much. But if you look deeper, and take the time to study it, you will come away from the movie with so much more.

The term "the greatest" gets thrown a lot these days. The Beatles, Jordan, Ali, and countless others. Are they the greatest of all time? Perhaps, but arguments can be made that they are not. Is Kane the greatest film of all time? Unarguably. I do not believe that any film will surpass Kane. It is the classic, and is the only film I can ever justify giving a perfect score to.

10/10

[lensnart]

The thing that blows me away about this film and something that I often forget about watching it is when it was made. Look at the other films that were being made at the same time, very little even comes close to it and certainly nothing from America. The innovation of this film is amazing, Welles took film making to a whole new level and perhaps even more amazing is that it still stands up so well today.

I don't hand out 10's willy-nilly but there is no doubt whatsoever that this film deserves one.

10 out of 10

[Rokk_Krinn]

I think that's one of the important things to remember when reviewing the film - give it the same consideration you would, say, "Star Wars IV"; everyone goes on about how "the special effects are okay now but at the time...wow!" and boost the movie because of that; same thing goes for "Citizen Kane" - compare it to the movies of its' period and what it was able to accomplish. This film holds up amazingly well even today but when you stop and consider even something that we would now consider "simple" like "aging over time" make-up effects, this film was the one that did it.

[dj_sha]

Ingmar Bergman hated Citizen Kane and Orson Welles. I don't really know why, but he said some vicious things about it.

Anyways, I like it. An easy 10/10.

[JackAssterson]

I absolutely adore this film, which continuously stands the test of time. 10/10

[EmperorNorton]

So the communis opinio is that I should watch this movie?

[spacedye]

So are we going for the first perfect score here? If any movie deserves it, it's Kane.

[dj_sha]

Actually, I'll change my rating from a 10 to a 9. Nothing deserves a perfect rating. ;)

[Rokk_Krinn]

So the communis opinio is that I should watch this movie?

Would "Yes." be too simple of an answer?

(Hmm...I can see our plane going down now after Norton says, "Soon as we're done with this bombing run, I'm going to watch "Citizen Kane" for the very first time!" :cheeky: )

[ludd_gang]

I haven't seen it for a long time, but I remember thinking, "Yeah, I can see why this is the #1 critics choice of movie of all time." 10/10

[T'Chaka]

I almost know this flick word for word.

10/10.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Actually, I'll change my rating from a 10 to a 9. Nothing deserves a perfect rating. ;)

I have never rep'd for a "frivolous" reason but I'm sorely tempted. ;)

On the other hand, I'm not sure trying to drag down "Citizen Kane"'s score constitutes "frivolous" either. What say the masses? :devious:

[DTM]

Actually, I'll change my rating from a 10 to a 9. Nothing deserves a perfect rating. ;)


A few things...

If you Love this movie to originally give it a 10, then wish to change your mind because you never hand out 10s, may I suggest a 9.75, 9.50 or 9.25 over a whole point down to 9?

Also, your few personal favorite films, your very select grouping of all time favorites, should be rated 10s, as this rating system is based on Your takes, Your opinions, so if you love say Groundhog Day more than Any Other Film, give it a 10. It doesnt mean its The Perfect Film, just that its Your Favorite film, and thats what these threads are all about.

[spacedye]

A few things...

If you Love this movie to originally give it a 10, then wish to change your mind because you never hand out 10s, may I suggest a 9.75, 9.50 or 9.25 over a whole point down to 9?

Also, your few personal favorite films, your very select grouping of all time favorites, should be rated 10s, as this rating system is based on Your takes, Your opinions, so if you love say Groundhog Day more than Any Other Film, give it a 10. It doesnt mean its The Perfect Film, just that its Your Favorite film, and thats what these threads are all about.


I don't see it so much as a "favorite" film as a "best" film. Like, I've seen Kane a few times, but it's not my favorite film. That would probably go to Evil Dead or Friday the 13th (the series holds a very special place in my heart). However, Kane gets the higher rating because it is thebetter film. Just my $.02.

[DTM]

Well youre more than welcome to rate these films any way you wish, me Ill certainly look at the better films as higher as well, though Ill also take into account my favorite films, giving them a higher score due to them being so in my book.

[DTM]

CURRENT HCR MEMBER RATING:

CITIZEN KANE - 9.86 / 10

(7 members rating)

[Rokk_Krinn]

CURRENT HCR MEMBER RATING:

CITIZEN KANE - 9.86 / 10

(7 members rating)

*shakes his fist in pointless fury at dj_sha!*

:)

[AlienFlanders]

Think of all those Simpson's episodes that would have missing bits if Citizen Kane didn't do them first.

I give it a 10/10. It is one of those 1000 movies you should see before flying another mission.

[Rokk_Krinn]

Think of all those Simpson's episodes that would have missing bits if Citizen Kane didn't do them first.


That's it! South Park's sequel to "The Simpsons Did It First!" could be "Citizen Kane Did It Even Before That!".

[mike_houghton]

I personally loved this movie. Before your decision to do CK I dont think I had expressed my opinion yet for any of the other films, mainly because I didnt know enough about them to give an honest rating. Orsen though did things both on screen, and off that are the part of the back bone of entertainment to this day, whether it was theatre, movies, or radio, he did it well.
This movie is his crowning acheivement in my mind, able to stand the test of time, lack of positive public opinion, and being black listed by Hearst it went on to be the greatest movie ever.
10.

[EmperorNorton]

Finally came around to watching it today. Didn't hate it.

9.5/10

[T'Chaka]

Finally came around to watching it today. Didn't hate it.

9.5/10

Orson Welles will sleep soundly in his grave tonight. :cheeky:

[Rokk_Krinn]

Orson Welles will sleep soundly in his grave tonight. :cheeky:

Hey, coming from EmperorNorton that one line is the equivalent of a 5-hour special tribute with commentary by all the great directors of history. :grin:

[rouge2]

CK still stands as one of the biggest conflicts for me when reviewing a movie. I recognise without dispute or reservation the immeasurable impact the film has, both in filming techniques and in narrative structure. No one had ever done the things Welles did and it quite literally changed the way movies were made. Almost every film since owes something to Kane for it's trailblazing innovation and dragging cinema into the realm of a legitimate art form.

That being said, I don't like the movie. I've watched it several times, and while I appreciate what it's doing, the story and the characters don't work for me on some viceral level. I don't feel the pathos for Kane, and quite frankly I find it plodding in parts.

Therefore, my rating is an 8 based on it's contribution to cinema.

I will now submit to the lynching.

[DTM]

OK, believe it or not I only recently saw this old time classic film, and while I do appreciate a tremendous amount from it, it just didnt fall into the My All Time Favorite category for me. In the end Ill give it a 8.75, part due to how it was, part due to what it was, but as far as movies Id rather watch and enjoy, Id pick quite a bit over this well deserved, though a bit out-dated, classic.

[Prof. Aragorn]

The techniques innovative and inspiring. The acting superb. I absolutely love how the story is told in non-linear fashion/through flashbacks. The visual elements in Kane gives the cinema its spectacle the way no other visual medium can.

As much as I admire this piece of work, I am not in love with this film as much as I love say The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, The Dark Knight, The Terminator, and so on. It is not my favorite movie - certainly a movie that I can agree is one of the greatest feats in cinema of all time (though personally, I love Welle's Lady of Shanghai more).

I hate to bring the rating down here, if we ever review Lady of Shanghai, I'll make up by giving that movie a perfect 10.

8.98 out of ten.

[necrodog]

This movie is a classic, both for the dedication and the technical skill involved in it's creation and for the quality of the film. It's a film anyone who truly appreciates great film making should see.

But it's not my favorite film: it doesn't even make my top 10. So only a 9 out of 10.