Justice League: Aquaman, The Joker, Doomsday, and more! [Archive]

andrewtarius

07/31/2007, 18:57

002 R Aquaman
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl002.jpg
jl002
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_002_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_002_B.jpg

009 U The Joker
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl009.jpg
jl009
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_009_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_009_B.jpg

021 E Shark King
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl021.jpg
jl021
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_021_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_021_B.jpg

046 E Superman
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl046.jpg
jl046
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_046_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_046_B.jpg

054 U Doomsday
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl054.jpg
jl054
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_054_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_054_B.jpg

AlgertMan

07/31/2007, 18:59

AWESOME x 50!

HappyTrain

07/31/2007, 19:01

Holy Mother Of Mercy!

AlgertMan

07/31/2007, 19:01

20 Defense!

HappyTrain

07/31/2007, 19:03

JOKER IS A COMMON!

*throws up from disbelief*

gambitrmp

07/31/2007, 19:06

Joker & Doomsday's white powers are really cool!! Too bad they had to make Doomsday SR.

dernjg

07/31/2007, 19:08

Interesting that there's no keywords at all for Aquaman. And yet, of the words currently released, none fit him (it's his rookie, so he's not a ruler and has nothing to do with Atlantis).

ol_Dut

07/31/2007, 19:09

Emp. Joker's card shows he has Impervious, but it's not on his dial. What's up wth that?

But the best part about him? He's a commmon. Jokers will be everywhere!

And I love that Doomsday! What a MONSTER! He actually lives up to his name. On the flip side, I'm not digging Supes yet, nor his special power. Maybe it'll grow on me if I look at it longer.

HappyTrain

07/31/2007, 19:09

Where are Joker's Impervious clicks?

andrewtarius

07/31/2007, 19:13

Emp. Joker's card shows he has Impervious, but it's not on his dial. What's up wth that?Either the Willpower is supposed to be Impervious on the dial, or the Impervious is supposed to be Willpower on the card.

Answerman

07/31/2007, 19:13

sweet bejesus, I'm stuck on Doomsdays card.
Unstoppable.
The damage reducer the game has needed since day 1!
Now lets have us a Juggernaut with the power!

OK, now Superman with no damage reducers for more than 1/2 of his dials straight up pathetic.

I'm entirely sick of characters who are the epitome of indestructable getting the damage reducer shaft especially now that with Unstoppable on the table now.
Weak decision IMO.

Aquaman's neato, but Seth buddy hes just as agile against ranged attacks as he is HtH attacks whats up with that?

I dig King Shark and Emperor Joker....

But man that Superman fig is lacking why not just give him mastermind anyways?
If he had a power that gavce him say defend and invun or imperv at the same time as defend of mastermind I woulda been thrilled, but as i8t stand his special power just blows chunks.
That and he can't see through stealth, but WW2 Cap, the Iron Widow, Hulk, and Iron Man can?

Please, please please let there be another Superman in this set...

AlienFlanders

07/31/2007, 19:13

It must be an April Fools joke, Wizkids don't allow previews.:laugh:

ol_Dut

07/31/2007, 19:17

Either the Willpower is supposed to be Impervious on the dial, or the Impervious is supposed to be Willpower on the card.

I hope the Willpower on the dial should be Impervious. That would be outstanding! I always hate cancelling Willpower to get to a different click. But Impervious would make him the huge force to be reckoned with that he should be.

All in all, an impressive first salvo of previews!

Manchine

07/31/2007, 19:19

Man after how many sets they still can't make superman right.

I am impressed with Aquaman and Doomsday the most.

Quasimoto

07/31/2007, 19:21

Unstoppable is the best special power by far.

dernjg

07/31/2007, 19:22

Unpredictable Omnipotence's favorite number will be 6. Crazy people might go lower than four, but that's asking to roll low. Heck, if you pick the No. 1 and crit miss, it looks like UO still fires off and you take three damage. But with six, if it comes up your odds of hitting and using the bonus damage increase. And what's a better way to sooth taking two clicks yourself than dealing 7 or 6 clicks?

Quasimoto

07/31/2007, 19:22

Also Omnipotence with a prob controller is a close second.

Zatara55

07/31/2007, 19:24

I got to say I like these special powers, even the self-sacrifice one (but I don't think it will get much use). Joker as a giant? Wow. Parry is a good power. I just wish his point cost wasn't so high or that his AV weren't so low.

Greenandgold

07/31/2007, 19:28

I love Unstoppable!

FunkeyFresh

07/31/2007, 19:28

I like the doomsday, but the superman sucks. I think his points should be closer to 200. Man of Steel looks better to me.

Spook

07/31/2007, 19:31

Phantom

07/31/2007, 19:31

Unstoppable is a great power.

Doomsday himself is a terrible, terrible piece. Too low damage and too little mobility for such a high point cost. In any game he shows up in, you'd be better served to just ignore him as much as possible while you focus on the actually dangerous pieces.

XocgX

07/31/2007, 19:34

Doomsday is never less than Invulnerable...and he can't take more than 2 clicks on click 1 and 1 click on click 2...I imagine PB, EW and PW all don't make a difference since his Special Power only has an effect when you click TO it, not when you are ON it...as pointed out in other threads, outwit won't make any difference since the effect only takes place going to it...

XocgX

07/31/2007, 19:36

IS Embiggen optional? Might be nice to specify whether or not you WANT to be a Giant =)

Cliffjumper

07/31/2007, 19:36

Holy carp Batman...these previews are SICK!!!!!!!!

Maybe I misunderstand Doomsdays special power. At my present understanding I think it absolutely blows. I mean, ya can only use it once and it order for it to come into play youd have to be taking 6 damage!!! Otherwise if it gets outwitted its absolutely worthless!!! If there were 4 clicks of UNSTOPPABLE in a row...now that would kick arse. OR if you could use it off his first click that would rock,...but how can you activate a special power when the fact is when you get hit it doesnt exist yet? Im confused. I dont think he should ever go down to 2 damage for 261 points. Plus...wheres the regen????

All in all...Im happy to see a new Doomsday...bout dang time.

As for Supes...well Im think his defense is unbreakable in this format when by the time those clicks show up folks at best will need 9s and 10s to KO him...hes the broken pull for sure.

Aqua-how do you like me now-man is awesome and it going to wreck house with my Fish out of water team.

Joker and King Shark....AWESOME.

Lofcutus

07/31/2007, 19:36

sweet monkey jesus! Emp Joker!!! OK, I hate the concept of a Common Unique...too many dupes you simply CANNOT use! But WOW! Joker Does indeed make the Rules!

Doomsday's SP is quite cool too! "OK with Exploit Weakness, a Soda a Machine and Critical Hit with my natural 5 damage that's 9 clicks...what do you mean he stops turning on his 3rd click!?!":eek:

N I C E!

Answerman

07/31/2007, 19:38

IS Embiggen optional? Might be nice to specify whether or not you WANT to be a Giant =)

Special power are just like powers, so yeah he can turn it off.

JadeDragon55

07/31/2007, 19:38

saturnflight

07/31/2007, 19:40

I want every one of these figs. And this coming from a non DC collector.

prof_obscure

07/31/2007, 19:51

Emp. Joker is AMAZING. What a wonderful surprise. Even Aquaman is...interesting. Sharky is useful.

Superman and Doomsday. What Happened?

Superman's special power makes no sense. Why have no damage reducers there? The power should at least still grant toughness. But either he uses the power and takes full damage, or is the direct focus of the attack for full damage. Ya, the numbers are nice, but that's not going to stop him from being Ko'ed really quickly. For the point cost? BOOOO!

Doomsday is a huge dissappointment. For 261. Magog is WAY better. Doomsday is the highest point, zero range character in the game and he can't even hold his own. 2 Damage?!?! Is that a misprint? for 261 with zero range doomsday should at least have damage values as good as Darkseid and his 12 range. One click of 5 damage? One click of Blades+exploit? BOOOO!

Komixfrk75

07/31/2007, 19:51

That Doomsday will probably end up being the hardest figure in heroclix to kill now.....I don't look forward to people playing him every week.

fastcat99

07/31/2007, 19:51

So........Supes power proves he's a team player. He now has the ability to leave the game really fast so that everyone else can prove their worth. How noble can you get?

Phantom

07/31/2007, 19:52

Maybe I misunderstand Doomsdays special power. At my present understanding I think it absolutely blows. I mean, ya can only use it once and it order for it to come into play youd have to be taking 6 damage!!! Otherwise if it gets outwitted its absolutely worthless!!! If there were 4 clicks of UNSTOPPABLE in a row...now that would kick arse. OR if you could use it off his first click that would rock,...but how can you activate a special power when the fact is when you get hit it doesnt exist yet?
You're misunderstanding. As soon as the special power shows up on the dial, it's in play. You stop turning. If he's on his first click and Magog clocks him for 9 on a Critical Hit with a Soda Machine, you still stop turning on his third click. Even Galactus can't stop him from turning. And you can't really Outwit it, since the power is never showing on the dial to be Outwitted until you need it.

It's a great power. It's a shame that it's on a fig with so many clicks of 3 damage, no range, low speed and only two clicks of move/attack powers.

philrox7

07/31/2007, 19:54

Who is better? this Superman or The Man of Steel?

XocgX

07/31/2007, 19:55

At my present understanding I think it absolutely blows. I mean, ya can only use it once and it order for it to come into play youd have to be taking 6 damage!!! Otherwise if it gets outwitted its absolutely worthless!!! If there were 4 clicks of UNSTOPPABLE in a row...now that would kick arse.

If he had the special power in ANY clicks in a row, then you could outwit it...because it would stay outwitted until he actually landed on a click WITHOUT it...and remember TAKING 6 damage is not the factor, being assigned 6 damage is...you'd take a LOT less =)

A_Higher_Level

07/31/2007, 19:56

I knew they were gonna just keep trying with Aquaman till they got him right!

Now he can talk to the fishes!!! Now that's the Aquaman that we all know and love. Too bad King Shark starts off with BF.

I like the Joker, but the set isn't even released yet and we already have a misprint. :( I'm more of a fan of Willpower than Impervious, though both work for me (and Impervious makes more sense with the 'flavor' text reference to God).

I agree Doomsday damage is on the low end, but he just keeps going and has nothing less than Invulnerability on his dial. And his special power is better than Protected. In fact, put Protected on him and watch the good times roll!!!

Superman... :ermm:

King Shark... :cross-eye

dantheman5999

07/31/2007, 19:59

First off i would like to say that this set is looking very fun so far and I hope it only gets better.

Aquaman- Looks kinda fun maybe worth a play with some other swimmers.
Joker- WOW crazy sign me up lots of points for lots of fun.
King shark- I hate those 9avs hate them I say, but with nano and ss TA now we're talking.
Superman- Is that Hypersonic and CCE !Que lastima! Still he does pack a punch but for 226 pts maybe? o wait I forgot the last 3 clicks.
DOOMSDAY- What a good SP WOW very cool! However, what is up with all of all these 3 damges and is that 2!!! Now Doomsday can use nano on one click thats an insult:angry: .

Over all- Looks good i'm some what satisfied. However, a few things that could be fixed in making these figs a little more game changing and powerful.

FunkeyFresh

07/31/2007, 19:59

Man of steel, easy. 26 points cheaper, better attack, better TA, equal damage.

XocgX

07/31/2007, 20:00

I think everyone misunderstands (well, not EVERYONE).

When you are actually ON the Doomsday Unstoppable Click, it's simply Invuln. That's it.

HOWEVER, if you turn the dial from a PREVIOUS click and as you turn REVEAL the power, STOP TURNING. Now, it's simply Invuln.

In order to outwit the power, it has to be showing, but the showing power is really just Invuln, so unless you Outwit and give him enough damage to theoretically go PAST the next Unstoppable click, it really doesn't matter (in regards to his special power).

I have a feeling that Pulse Wave, Exploit Weakness and even Pulse Wave will NOT ignore the special effect granted when turning to Unstoppable. These powers bypass the abilities possessed at the time of the attack, not after the attack resolves.

I hope that's how it works. It would certainly make his 261 worthwhile!!

echopryme

07/31/2007, 20:04

Great googly mooglies...

These guys are gonna be tough to top. Can't wait to see Lobo.

theanalogkid

07/31/2007, 20:05

Now seth needs to redo Validus as he should have looked a lot like Doomsday.

Cliffjumper

07/31/2007, 20:10

You're misunderstanding. As soon as the special power shows up on the dial, it's in play. You stop turning. If he's on his first click and Magog clocks him for 9 on a Critical Hit with a Soda Machine, you still stop turning on his third click. Even Galactus can't stop him from turning. And you can't really Outwit it, since the power is never showing on the dial to be Outwitted until you need it.

It's a great power. It's a shame that it's on a fig with so many clicks of 3 damage, no range, low speed and only two clicks of move/attack powers.

I dont know guys...Ive been playing since day one and powers that dont exist dont come into play as you click past them. That said, perhaps getting clocked really hard up front may stop him on his 3 click. Leave it to poor wording or at least the simplicity of clarity on Wkds behalf as usual for an immediate FAQ. But if hes on the special power on the 3rd click and gets outwitted it doesnt exist for future click just like if it was impervious and lands on it again...he doesnt have it for the following attack either. I dont see why that would change irregardless of the wording...the power is cancelled and will still be as he clicks past it.

On the other hand,

Perhaps once youve stopped on the Unstoppable 3rd click your supposed to push off it so it cant be outwitted. Then if the Impervious is outwitted or cracked beyond the damage you can stop again on the following Unstoppable click.

Wimbley

07/31/2007, 20:12

well looks like we are in for even more bad sculpts B^( superman looks good up till you get to his head.... looks like plastic man without his glasses, hopefully doomsday looks better in person ill keep my fingers crossed, and aquaman looks like it might be good i just wish they would stop with the stupid water splash it was cool the first couple of times but now its just geting old B^( the other two are just boring and dull B^(

Marshal Law

07/31/2007, 20:13

I like the Joker, but the set isn't even released yet and we already have a misprint.

I'm not one to knee jerk to WizKids defense, but there is the possibility the dial stats were entered wrong on this site, rather than the actual dial/card being incorrect.

Marshal Law

07/31/2007, 20:16

I knew they were gonna just keep trying with Aquaman till they got him right!

Now he can talk to the fishes!!! Now that's the Aquaman that we all know and love.

Except he actually has to *see* the fish to talk to them. Bah, humbug.

Ghost-x

07/31/2007, 20:16

Man, me likey!!

Doomsday is a true monster. Nice job Seth.

I think Aquaman is good too.

King Shark...dial is sick, scuplt is mediocre.

Superman has a decent dial; his sculpt is nice, but really static

Overall, I am excited to see some more previews

XocgX

07/31/2007, 20:18

I dont know guys...Ive been playing since day one and powers that dont exist dont come into play as you click past them. That said, perhaps getting clocked really hard up front may stop him on his 3 click. Leave it to poor wording or at least the simplicity of clarity on Wkds behalf as usual for an immediate FAQ. But if hes on the special power on the 3rd click and gets outwitted it doesnt exist for future click just like if it was impervious and lands on it again...he doesnt have it for the following attack either. I dont see why that would change irregardless of the wording...the power is cancelled and will still be as he clicks past it.

On the other hand,

Perhaps once youve stopped on the Unstoppable 3rd click your supposed to push off it so it cant be outwitted. Then if the Impervious is outwitted or cracked beyond the damage you can stop again on the following Unstoppable click.

I think the big thing is that this power is an absolute first...nothing like it before and it is a BIG change!!

I would say the only way to stop it is if he is on click 3 and you outwit it and hit him for 5, then he'd ignore the power when it comes up 4 clicks in. Other than that, if you outwit it, then he take 1 to Impervious then takes another 7, he'd stop at the next Unstoppable.

michiganj24

07/31/2007, 20:22

As far as the grass skirt I dont know what he has in the current series but when he appeared in Superboy he had that as he was soem sort of Shark King. But as far as being underpowered I dont think so as he is one of theose floating power guys. He got beat by Superboy, an ordinary cop and was no tougher than Knockout whose vet was right around 100 as well. And as far as beating Superman Killer Croc but a whupping on him too but they both los ein the end.
I am actually glad to see that this SS memeber is pretty good and hope that BT, MD, CV and P&J are just as playable
The Superman and King Shark scuplt suck! When did the Shark take up hulla dancing? The Superman scuplt is right out of Hypertime - boo.

Also, the Shark is way, way, way under powered. He can put a beat down on Superman and Green Lantern, yet he's only 100ish points? Bah.

Answerman

07/31/2007, 20:30

I dont know guys...Ive been playing since day one and powers that dont exist dont come into play as you click past them. That said, perhaps getting clocked really hard up front may stop him on his 3 click. Leave it to poor wording or at least the simplicity of clarity on Wkds behalf as usual for an immediate FAQ. But if hes on the special power on the 3rd click and gets outwitted it doesnt exist for future click just like if it was impervious and lands on it again...he doesnt have it for the following attack either. I dont see why that would change irregardless of the wording...the power is cancelled and will still be as he clicks past it.

On the other hand,

Perhaps once youve stopped on the Unstoppable 3rd click your supposed to push off it so it cant be outwitted. Then if the Impervious is outwitted or cracked beyond the damage you can stop again on the following Unstoppable click.

Well you can't click past it, thats the point, and the idea that hes vulnerable to outwit, dude what else is new?

Theres this lovely card called Fortitude that should end your complaints for that.
:)

bigmike1

07/31/2007, 20:35

zakiszak

07/31/2007, 20:37

Doomsday's 'Unstoppable' ability seems pretty straight forward. 'Stop turning the dial when Unstoppable appears in the stat slot'.

There's never been a power before that happens as you turn the dial, this is a new mechanic, but it's pretty clearly explained. You're turning the dial, unstoppable appears, you stop. The only other explanation I can think of is that you can't turn the dial when Unstoppable is present, which is a VERY big stretch and kind of ridiculous.

My goodness, imagine Doomsday plus fortitude plus protected? Still expensive as heck for so little move attack, but lordy such fun.

Doomsday cries whenver Karnac is fielded though.

XocgX

07/31/2007, 20:41

The new FAQ ruling on Pulse Wave now says that it/you ignore ALL powers, feats Team, Abilities etc. So Suicide Squad now doesn't get the healing, so think PW will ignore unstoppable wherever it is on the dial.

We'll have to see...because PW never says it ignores the power not yet on the dial...and this is the first power EVER to only be in effect when it is clicked ON, as opposed to already showing.

Now, it's a valid argument to say that they errata'd PW knowing full well in advance that this would come up...I honestly hope that you DO stop. For 261 points, he should be BALLSY!

Plus, accuracy-wise, he evolves, so it's like the PW hurts him...but he adapts and stops taking damage. We'll see!

XocgX

07/31/2007, 20:42

thetigerking83

07/31/2007, 20:44

Now THAT is the Doomsday I've wanted for a long time. :) Pity about the Super-rare thing though. Superman looks cool. Not as powerful as some of the others but pretty good defense.

Marshal Law

07/31/2007, 20:55

Aquaman: From a strictly playability standpoint, the low attack makes this figure inferior to most cheap Charge + Super Strength / Charge + Blades figures already existing. Not garbage by any means, and this figure would be a decent consideration in sealed, but nothing special. The special Perplex ability is neat, but will almost certainly only see use on non-competitive teams. The defensive special power is sort of a waste - conditional Super Senses? Give full Super Senses, or replace with CCR (which already basically covers the same concept), but don't waste a "special" power on something so un-special. Overall I like this figure, but am not enthralled by it.

Joker: First things first, too expensive for competitive play. Now that that is out of the way, I love this figure. Another funky dial of strange stuff sure to confound and maybe even pound your opponent. Even if you don't end up winning (not unlikely) odds are you'll both walk away with a smile on your face from this odd bird's exploits regardless of the game outcome. This is how "interesting" dials should be done. Did I mention I love this figure?

Shark King: Charge plus Blades plus 3 Damage. Sigh. Low attack for a figure that cracks the 3 digit price tag, and they only go down. Adding insult, when the big damage lottery Blades go away the printed damage drops to 2 along with it, and instead the albatross of CCE is teamed up with Charge. A decent top dial defense number, but both the attack, printed damage, and damage potential slide too relentlessly downhill for the figure's cost. What a waste.

Superman: CCE with Hypersonic? (rubs eyes, looks again, rubs eyes, looks again, shakes head). Add in CCE with Super Strength and Hypersonic - so you can "cleverly" run in and hit with an object, then follow up for the same damage on the next turn, assuming you completely ignore the whole point of Hypersonic by running in *and then staying put*. Add in a special power already better represented by Defend, on clicks where the figure can ill afford to take the hit. Sure, games can be played to creep up to that higher defense, but its a risky ploy on a 236 point figure who's offensive abilities rapidly go into the toilet at that point. Give up your last useful clicks of Hypersonic and look forward to a possible 8 attack to save a most likely cheaper figure from a couple clicks of damage, and make yourself harder to heal to something useful in the bargain? He does keep his attack mobility better than Vet Icons Supes (a figure I don't want to see the likes of again anytime soon), but that's about all that can be said about this one. This figure shouldn't be "broken", but the stats and power combinations on his dial is just lacking that synergy needed to make this figure, well, Super.

Doomsday: Jury is still out for me. Lack of range and a pitance of attack mobility takes this one out of the competitive for the cost environment, but its still a neat attempt. The infrequent pairings of Exploit Weakness + Charge (just once) is a shame. Flurry combined with incompatible powers (CCE and Exploit Weakness) is just criminal. The dial never drops off to garbage totally, but the damage values aren't overly impressive overall for what I expected for the comic accuracy or the point cost. While not totally accurate, a couple clicks of Regen would have done this figure wonders in terms of "artificially" extending his dial. I like what was attempted for this figure, I'm just less impressed with the overall result.

LarryLycanthropy

07/31/2007, 20:59

Hmmm, Joker has Enbiggen and Mastermind at the same time... Harley could be standing 2 squares away and still take a punch for her man!

NeoShazam

07/31/2007, 20:59

Excellent figures.

Only complaint on doomsday is the lack of movement powers.

bigmike1

07/31/2007, 21:00

Originally Posted by zakiszak
Doomsday's 'Unstoppable' ability seems pretty straight forward. 'Stop turning the dial when Unstoppable appears in the stat slot'.

There's never been a power before that happens as you turn the dial, this is a new mechanic, but it's pretty clearly explained. You're turning the dial, unstoppable appears, you stop. The only other explanation I can think of is that you can't turn the dial when Unstoppable is present, which is a VERY big stretch and kind of ridiculous.

.
The closest thing I can think of is Combat Reflexes. IIRC you could take damage and click into it and if you received knockback into a wall then you could ignore that damage.

JackAssterson

07/31/2007, 21:06

I'm not one to knee jerk to WizKids defense, but there is the possibility the dial stats were entered wrong on this site, rather than the actual dial/card being incorrect.

I'm 99.9% certain this is the case. The flavor text strongly suggests that the dial has Impervious, not Willpower. If it was just a misprint on the card said flavor text would almost certainly not be there.

Rukuz

07/31/2007, 21:07

St-Dumas

07/31/2007, 21:12

Gimme gimme gimme gimme gimme!

DarkCorsair

07/31/2007, 21:13

Doomsday impresses me in his sheer ability to reduce damage. He has 6 (count 'em, 6) clicks of impervious, and 5 clicks of Invuln/Invuln-like power, plus the bonus effect of his Special Power. His defense also bottoms out at a 16, which isn't too shabby. His damage output is perhaps not what it should be, but at least he can take some punches, especially with Fortitude.

Granite Moose

07/31/2007, 21:17

Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Very kick-butt previews.
Aquaman seems very accurate for the character. He should be fun to play for only 68 points.
I am absolutely loving Emperor Joker. He is going to be a blast to play. Unpredictable Omnipotence and Joker Makes The Rules will truly add to the madness of his dial.
King Shark is going to be tough to make work for his points, if only because of the low attack values. However, with CCE and BCF, he has the ability to cause a lot of pain with the right rolls.
Supes looks interesting, but I think I've got to look at the dial more to see how much I like it. Self Sacrifice seems like a good idea in theory, but I don't really see it as useful for this figure. Granted, he only has a 9 and 8 for attacks at that point, but he's got a couple of 19s and a 20 for defense!!!! That late in the game I'm probably going to make my opponent try and hit those numbers to get rid of Supes.
Doomsday could be a beast depending on the rulings on his Unstoppable power. If it truly stops any turning of the dial based on damage (including PW especially) as guessed at by other posters here, then it could be a revolutionary step for the game. If so, he is going to be very, very difficult to take down.

Loving me some JLA so far. :knockedou

GreenLantern73

07/31/2007, 21:22

Holy Mother Of Mercy!

Ditto that after I saw Doomsday's dial!!

thugit

07/31/2007, 21:35

Superman's power would have been a lot better if he became the actual target of the attack rather than simply taking the damage. Man of Steel is a better figure....

Doomsday is a BEAST and Joker looks fun....

Where's Batman?

Batedude27

07/31/2007, 21:36

I don't know about the white powers.On the other hand, I am glad to see some preveiws. I hold we get to see some figures we don't know about by the end of the week.

Valentyne

07/31/2007, 21:48

OK....lemme get this straight.......

First off, Doomsday........

OH MY @#$%ING GOD!!!

DO I SEE SIX CLICKS OF IMPERVIOUS?????
DO I SEE THE ABILITY TO DAMAGE ANY FIG WITH DAMAGE REDUCERS?????
DO I NOT SEE THE GIANT DAMAGE SYMBOL?????
DO I SEE A STARTING 19D WITH INVULN?????
DO I SEE THE SWEETEST SPECIAL POWER TO GRACE HEROCLIX?????

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

I think I have to go to the bathroom now........
(One hour later)
Phew.......

WHAT A MONSTER!!!!!!!!!

If that set has the Fortitude feat card, look out for this beast!

I cannot believe that someone from Wizkids got THIS fig right! Even figs with 275 and 286 point cost have a right to fear this monstrosity of a clix! Though he has a weakness to Outwit, range and penetrating damage, his only saving grace would be if they indeed packed Fortitude, or something similar, in this set. If they had packed on the Quintessence TA, we could have very well seen the first 300 point Heroclix!

Now, onto Joker.......

FRIGGIN A DOGGIE!!!

Now THAT is what I call a Joker!

No TA, but you get a sweet White Power, though nowhere near as sweet as Doomsday's. Mind Control, Imperv, MM, Outwit.....WOW! Though he is costly at dern near 200 pts, he is very much worth his point cost IMHO. Name me a fig that has a 19D with MM. Huh? No one comes close? Thought so. Though the trouble therein lies that he has to GET to it....and let's not forget that 101 points of support can only go so far. He's no part of a LAMP strategy anymore, but I still would be antsy to see this Joker on the opposite side of the map.

Now for the disappointment.......:disappoin

Superman, oh Superman. Where for art thou thy right incarnation of Superman? Granted, he's experienced. He's with the JLA. He's not supposed to be the powerhouse we saw him portray in Icons. But, come on! 226 points...and he only has a 10 AV?? Great Ceasar's ghost, Batman! JOKER AT 199 POINTS HAS AN 11 AND 12 AV!!! He's hypersonic for 4 clicks, I get that. His special power? More lame than the Hulk's use of the MoE. Ok, so he's much like the The Man of Steel in this aspect. He gets a 20 defense. ON HIS LAST CLICK. The only thing that worries me about that is what the other figs in this set have for an AV. If the commons and uncommons have a general average of 10, then it'll be a great annoyance. We've seen Batman with a 12 AV. I'm not holding my breath here.

For right now, the villians look to be fantastic in this set. I only hope that some semblance of justice is done and that some of the heroes get equally as awesome as Joker and Doomsday.

disciple1976

07/31/2007, 21:57

NOT TO FOND OF THE WAY THEY MADE SUPERMAN, AND I ALSO THOUGHT THEY COULD HAVE MADE DOOMSDAY ALOT TOUGHER.

thepunisher27

07/31/2007, 22:10

jokers amazing,supermans awesome,doomsdays ok but sculpt is swweet,aquaman is sweet!

Valentyne

07/31/2007, 22:10

As in, make Doomsday deal more damage "tougher"? I agree in that, offensively, he isn't quite a TRUE powerhouse. However, a formidable beast - he is. Defensively? Forget about it. He makes BOTH Ares' look like Starter Set Robins in comparison to his defensive might.

TheFreak

07/31/2007, 22:11

i like the dials. but all i can say is...

GREAT. Another Common Unique. Flippin fantastic. Maybe all those stupid Jokers can join up with all those stupid worthless extra Iron Men.

GreatArelius1

07/31/2007, 22:14

Helluva alot better than Avengers set

spider_ham

07/31/2007, 22:26

Yippee! :cool:

WK finally got Doomsday right, and what a dial! Emperor Joker is awesome with his mega-Outwit, and Supes is great with the high end-dial DV (but a little expensive).

I was expecting Aquaman to have the Super Senses special power and Willpower/Toughness combo for a few clicks at the very least; having the option to use SS seems like a waste, imho. King Shark just makes me smile. ;)

jepgijoe

07/31/2007, 22:29

I love Doomsday for the following reasons.

1. Unstoppable make him well UNSTOPPABLE - This is by far one of the best special powers yet.
2. 6 clix of Impervious and 5 of Invulnerable - This will make him very hard to kill. I have seen people hit several impervious rolls in a row.
3. Low damage but on most of those click he has flurry. So he still has a chance to do 4 and 6 damage each time and with 2 clix of 12 , 3 clix of 11, 2 clix of 10 and 1 clix of 9 attack he is going to hit most of the time.
4. On the 2 damage clix he has exploit weakness and flurry so if both hit no damage reducers

He will be a unstoppable force in JLA set.

The Sandman

07/31/2007, 22:30

spider_ham

07/31/2007, 22:35

1 question i have on Supes is whether the "damage" he takes for self sacrifice is just the damage the targeted character would have recd. Meaning, if if he is next to a character with Inv who gets smacked for 4, the damage the character would actually take is 2, not 4. So would Supes take 2 or 4?

Supes takes all the damage as unavoidable damage. :ermm: Throw Sidekick on him to increase the odds that he won't bite the dust!

This version of Supes is closer to the Hypertime version in regards to having lower damage, but the 4 clicks of HSS and 19-20 DV make up for it.

kryptonboy

07/31/2007, 22:38

Superman - 2 damage? No damage reducers on the last half of his dial? Poison can wreck him? POSION? So he has an annoying defense thing going on at the end and that's it? Superman, Man of Annoyance. Lame.

Glen Quagmire

07/31/2007, 22:48

The Superman and King Shark scuplt suck! When did the Shark take up hulla dancing? The Superman scuplt is right out of Hypertime - boo.

Also, the Shark is way, way, way under powered. He can put a beat down on Superman and Green Lantern, yet he's only 100ish points? Bah.

Understandable mistake, but you're thinking of the wrong Shark. This is King Shark, who debuted in the Kon-El Superboy series and is in the current Aquaman series.

DC also has Killer Shark and The Shark. I assume you're referring to the latter. I don't know if King Shark ever faced GL or Superman.

GREAT. Another Common Unique. Flippin fantastic. Maybe all those stupid Jokers can join up with all those stupid worthless extra Iron Men.

Iron Man is 154 pts, Joker is 199 pts. If they aren't uniques, does it really make a difference? I mean, it's not like a 19-pt SHIELD Sniper that was made a unique. It's a high-point figure that you wouldn't play multiples of in the low-point approved play venues anyhow.

SpaceGhost

07/31/2007, 22:51

My wife always says start with something positive...
Unstoppable is Great! Why can't he have a 3rd click of it on his last click?

And a 261 point figure should NEVER have a 2 damage!

Maybe Doomsday should be bigger too. To me he looks like he is holding that cape like he needs more toilet paper.

The other figures look good, with the confusion of EJ's Willpower/Imperv...

Still looking forward to this set more than Avengers!

Glen Quagmire

07/31/2007, 22:57

IS Embiggen optional? Might be nice to specify whether or not you WANT to be a Giant =)

I think Special Powers have that same oddity as Feats; they're optional, except when they're not. ;) (see Sidekick). For Embiggen, I doubt it's going to be optional based on the wording. Just check out the other SPs revealed. They've all got either "can" or "may" in their verbage. Embiggen does not and if it is FAQ'd, it'll be FAQ'd to say it's not optional, because the ramifications of being able to switch from giant to normal size in the middle of an action would create all sorts of headaches.

Frontman

08/01/2007, 00:02

I dig all the sculpts. Superman is fine, as this is obviously from his original JLA run, where he "dies" against Doomsday.

Speaking of Doomsday, GOOD GAWD is that a beast. He's gonna be a tough fig to deal with.

All in all, I'm impressed.

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 00:03

Ok, love Aquaman, can't believe Joker is a common, and Doomsday looks decent enough... but what if I outwit his special power when he's on click 3, then smack him for 5? does he zoom straight past the click 7 special power slot as it is outwitted?
Yes, as Unstoppable does not exist at that moment.

Doomsday is a huge dissappointment. For 261. Magog is WAY better. Doomsday is the highest point, zero range character in the game and he can't even hold his own. 2 Damage?!?! Is that a misprint? for 261 with zero range doomsday should at least have damage values as good as Darkseid and his 12 range. One click of 5 damage? One click of Blades+exploit? BOOOO!
Magog's defense is really poor, and his damage drops off sharply in melee. Once he makes his usually dreaded alpha strike Doomsday will take two clicks, smile, and proceed to smash Magog to bits. Put the dials side by side, give both the Soda Machine and check the numbers. Doomsday utterly destroys him, usually ending up on his 5-6th click and ready to take out whatever Magog packed for support.

Doomsday will be awesome in high point matches as he is nearly immune to the alpha strike. Outwit doesn't matter, the Meteor doesn't matter, Exploit Weakness or all the damage in the world doesn't matter, you can't hit him for more than 2 off the top of his dial except maybe with Pulsewave.

Who is better? this Superman or The Man of Steel?
Man of Steel by two and a half miles. This Supes has no damage reducers for half his dial and some seriously nerfed HSS. On top of that, he's 26 points more. V M'Onel is almost better than this Supes, and that's sad. His only hope is to trash everyone's AVs before he gets to mid-dial and hope they don't have Poison/Firewall/Forceblast.

Hmmm, Joker has Enbiggen and Mastermind at the same time... Harley could be standing 2 squares away and still take a punch for her man!
Mastermind requires an adjacent figure, which Harley is not unless Joker is punching her or trying to move.

I love Doomsday for the following reasons.

4. On the 2 damage clix he has exploit weakness and flurry so if both hit no damage reducers
Scratch that one, they don't stack.

I think Special Powers have that same oddity as Feats; they're optional, except when they're not. ;) (see Sidekick). For Embiggen, I doubt it's going to be optional based on the wording. Just check out the other SPs revealed. They've all got either "can" or "may" in their verbage. Embiggen does not and if it is FAQ'd, it'll be FAQ'd to say it's not optional, because the ramifications of being able to switch from giant to normal size in the middle of an action would create all sorts of headaches.
You can't turn powers off in the middle of an action anyway, so that wouldn't come up. Either you cancel Embiggen or you don't, so he's either a giant or not for your entire turn. He should automatically become a giant again at the end of your turn as per the rulings with canceling Stealth and other such passive powers. I would also say that as currently worded Embiggen IS optional as unlike Earthbound and Battle Fury, it does not say that it is not optional.

mattsolo

08/01/2007, 00:03

I think I just peed myself a little.

Frontman

08/01/2007, 00:07

Iron Man is 154 pts, Joker is 199 pts. If they aren't uniques, does it really make a difference? I mean, it's not like a 19-pt SHIELD Sniper that was made a unique. It's a high-point figure that you wouldn't play multiples of in the low-point approved play venues anyhow.

I believe its more of a comment on how difficult it might be to trade/sell Emperor Joker, as if he's common, and a unique, noone wants more than one.

We'll have to see.

6T9

08/01/2007, 00:11

WOW!!! That Superman really sucks! Did seth use the Crapyness of the OWAW Superman LE as a source of inspiration, and then just added the high backend defence gimick of the Man of Steel fig to justify this load of ####?!? Man, what a disapointment. And that Special power is just plain dumb. Why would anybody want to "Sacrifice" a 226 point figure for a lesser point fig?? :confused: I wish he would at least have been made a super rare, that way it would be one less high end fig I'd have to worry about not getting. :disappoin

Doomsday: Oh man, where to start. This fig is not as great as everybody seems to think, 261 points is waaaay too expensive for a figure that all it has going for him is butt loads of damage reducers. :confused: Think about it...who in their right mind would field a figure that expensive, that can have the majority of his cost in points cancelled with a little outwit and then torn to pieces from range...BAD IDEA! :ermm: Sure you can fortitude him, but then you would have tremendously jacked-up his point cost. He is not a one man army, so again...BAD IDEA! :ermm: But on the brightside, he will make excellent trade bait for some unsuspecting 10 yr old kid that doesn't know any better (by kid i mean adult). lol :laugh:

The Emperor Joker is the Shiznik and I am soooo relieved that he is a common!!! This is one badass figure that I will not have to stress about getting. Needless to say...he owns Superman and Doomsday any day of the week! He is much cheaper, and will kick the #### out of either one of em. Can you say "outwit all your powers"? :cool: Yep, sounds sexxxxy! Oh, and for those of you that are wondering if he has Willpower or Impervious...it's impervious. How do I know you ask? Well lets see, The card has an elaborate alternate name for impervious, which tells you that the designer put a lot of thought in giving the Joker this power. ;) Willpower is clearly just a gallery or printing error. :rolleyes: Now if they "Charcoal" him and screw him over just for convenience sake...Blood bath!!!

Oh, and Aquaman in kinda neat (wish it was the JLA version though) and Killer Shark is so so.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...goodnight! :cheeky:

flakbait

08/01/2007, 00:15

Those all look fantastic to me.

The placement of Superman's special power bugs me, though. He's got a lot of empty damage slots they could have used for his Sacrifice power, leaving his Defense free for actual defense powers. When Supes jumps in front of someone, he deflects the bullets, he doesn't eat them. Looks like they dropped the ball on that one.

But I love all the others.

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 00:16

I believe its more of a comment on how difficult it might be to trade/sell Emperor Joker, as if he's common, and a unique, noone wants more than one.

We'll have to see.

Yeah, that's the issue, and I agree. I have two Iron Man figures, and there's not much to be done with the second one. The rules prohibit me from playing both, and everyone and their dog has one and can't use two, so the trade value is nil. I'll probably try moding it with some Titanium Man boot jets since I have the other as a backup if I break it.

Uniques should never appear in the common ranks.

Snake_Eyes898

08/01/2007, 00:19

Anyone else notice that Doomsday has an old-school dial top?

Frontman

08/01/2007, 00:22

Anyone else notice that Doomsday has an old-school dial top?

Keep in mind that the photo mock ups don't have their actual dial tops all the time.

Rukuz

08/01/2007, 00:30

AH The Rukuz likes them all..yeah supes SP is a little weird but whatever..Give The Rukuz Doomsday and lets see what happens...Oh and keep that Empy Joky away...The Rukuz thinks he looks a little addictive..

bamf!

08/01/2007, 00:50

I really like Emperor Joker a lot.

Doomsday, not so much. I think people are overestimating him. For 261 points you pretty much get a figure that will just take a few turns to take down. Almost every other piece in his price range is tremendously superior to him. Ares has running shot, avengers team ability, and amazing stats. Doomsday will, more often than not, only touch Ares when it's too late. The same goes for Thanos who can use psychic blast, outwit, close combat expert, 10 range, and the Power Cosmic to wallop on Doomsday consistently and effectively. Plus if Doomsday can catch Thanos, he can regenerate back to doing 5 damage.

Kite-Man

08/01/2007, 01:07

If Doomsday had Quintessence TA he'd be bang on.

Still good.

Papa Smurf

08/01/2007, 01:23

Dc Kicks So Much ####

cHaO5

08/01/2007, 01:27

Anyone else notice that Doomsday has an old-school dial top?

How can you tell, he is a unique, so he has a silver ring, but you can't see whether or not he has a gold tab. And like Frontman said, they use different bases often when they take pictures.

lunar

08/01/2007, 01:45

Looks like Wizkids needs a bigger Thesaurus?

Not that I have a better suggestion, I'm just saying.

"Doomsday will use Unstoppable to break down that wall."
"You can't use Unstoppable it doesn't appear on your dial yet."
"No not THAT Unstoppable THIS Unstoppable. Arggh!"

Hmmm... maybe a good name for his Special Power would be "Meteorite Proof SPF 30"

lunar

08/01/2007, 01:46

If Doomsday had Quintessence TA he'd be bang on.

Still good.

I must have missed that issue...

2 Gun Kid

08/01/2007, 01:47

I cant wait to give my Superman 5 clicks when they tag my poor Mockingbird.

Monkey Joe

08/01/2007, 01:47

I love Aquaman and Joker. They seem like so much fun. King Shark is ok, though he is great for use with Aquaman. I don't much care for Supes and Doomsday though. Supes should at least have had toughness listed at the same time with the special power a la Wiccan. Thank god I have plenty of Avengers extras to trade for DC.

Travesty

08/01/2007, 03:18

I hope they have old school dials, I have 5 'New school' dials that I cant even turn :(

LarryLycanthropy

08/01/2007, 03:34

Everyone seems to be kinda bummed out about superman, but then you have to think; How many different ways can you make superman? You could make him godlike and an absolutely indestructable beast thats worth 300 points, or you could make more subtle incarnations of him. If they made a 300 point superman like everyone seems to be whining for, would they ever be able to make another superman figure? You can't make one figure the be all and end all of a character. Sure, he's not "man of steel" material, but the dial represents superman. This particular dial represents one facet of the superman character. He's not just a laser beam shooting fast-### indestructable tank, he's the big blue boy scout who's vowed to protect us puny humans no matter what.

CarlosMucha

08/01/2007, 04:09

yea, but sinse this Superman in the JL set I was waiting for a Silver Age Superman. very clear this is NOT that Superman.

(quote myself from another thread) :

-I don't like the JLA team for Superman, he always should have his own Team ab.
-No Lidership
-horrible sculp
-No Freezze breath (inc.)
-Dumb special power
-No 11 clicks of life
-Low attack value. I don't have a problem with 10 AV BUT he is SUPERMAN, he must be the more powerful "nomal" fig on the game.

charlesdward

08/01/2007, 04:25

Okay, hang on here for just a sec...
How is Joker being common a bad thing, like some people make it sound?

He is awesome, and I'm almost guaranteed to have one without paying through the... well, the point is, I'm quite happy about that. :grin:

And Doomsday... mama mia what a beast!
Aquaman is pretty cool... nice and cheap and he talks to fish!
King Shark is ok, but that 9 attack (again! on a 100 point figure!) is kind of "meh".
I actually like the Superman sculpt, but he's kind of... well... also "meh".

samuraigrifter

08/01/2007, 05:06

I really want to get that Doomsday. I'll feel better about not getting Ultimate Hulk as long as I have that monster instead.

Superman is okay, but I don't like the sculpt. Nothing beats the NGN and Man of Steel sculpt IMO.

Awesome sculpt on Aquaman.

DaeRave

08/01/2007, 06:59

DaeRave

08/01/2007, 07:00

oh

and those figs are AWESOME
the sculpts look great, and no one disapoints on the dials
(tho i wanted a more expensive, Ares like Superman. oh well!)

acapria

08/01/2007, 07:55

Tylk

08/01/2007, 08:13

1. Common Emperor Joker

Big deal. He is worth about $1 based upon new rarity values. Do you worry about all of those rookie Animal Mans or exp Razas in your junk pile? I realise it's a bit hard to accept on a 199 point unique figure everyone so far is fainting over (myself included). Hardly "the sky is falling" though.

2. Aquapants

Nice. Brilliant 4 range tactician for aquatics. Add a small dose of unique Abbey Chase and maybe Killer Croc and mix in the Hellboy uber water map and you probably have a pretty competitive team.

4. Superman

Boy I wish people would stop saying Wizkids has no idea how to make Superman. Defense presents Icons Vet Superman. Defense presents nifty one off NGN Superman. Defense presents MoS Superman. All considered good figures by many here. The Icons was complained about being TOO powerful even. While I'm unsure about his special power, I would bet one of my 23 eventual spare Emperor Jokers that Wizkids deliberately put CCE with HSS. It helps keep the majority of whiners at bay about HSS cheese and slapping for 4-5 at range. I'm more than cool with this, and I actually happen to like the sculpt, although that doesn't mean I love the dial.

5. Doomsday

Wow.
He may not see competive play (outside a Coming of Starro), he will be a fan favorite in fun games. And although it sucks to see him a SR, somebody in the set has to be. Just means he is $20-30 and probably closer to $40 when the set is just released, to cash in on all of us desperate to field such a monster.

6. Captain Mako

Meh, but nice dial...and aquatic for Aquapants! I also don't know who he is.

Nice job Wizkids. We also now have a much better mechanic/power for people switching between normal and giant sizes (as opposed to whatever Giganta had...Earthbound?).

Spike501

08/01/2007, 08:26

Hmm, guess I'm the only one not too terribly saddened by Doomsdays click of 2 damage. It comes right after his second unstoppable power. Chances are that you'll end up on that 2nd unstoppable sometime in the game. ;) and once you do, you leap/climb and push to get next to an object, or if you don't have any tokens, haymaker for 5 damage to kill the enemy next to you on an object, use nanobots, and poof, you are back in front of unstoppable, and the most damage someone can do is one.

tkwink

08/01/2007, 08:30

Is it me or does Superman look like Ben Affleck? Just paint him black and white and grey - Hollywoodland. :)

Gecko

08/01/2007, 08:46

By the Gods!

Joker rocks...I'll have as much fun with him as I did with Legacy Vet! WOW!

I certainly hope we are getting the LoSH dials / sculpts / plastic and not Avengers!

The Sandman

08/01/2007, 09:01

Doomsday is a couple of tweaks from being awesome, without having to go too far and make him overpowered. increase the 2 damage to 3, make the 3 on click 7 exploit weakness again, and maybe put a 4 damage on clicks 4 and 5. I really would have liked charge on his 1st click. I play tested against Terrax, Surfer, and Thanos. He tore Terrax up, SS will beat him consistantly in a long game because he can't compete against a HSS/Power Cosmic combo. Thanos will beat him everytime (close) unless he hits a couple of impervious rolls at the end. Power Cosmic is just to difficult for him without range or enough move and attack powers. Ignoring all the tweaks I stated, Quintessance (as someone stated earlier) would have been perfect on him.

The Sandman

08/01/2007, 09:03

oh, and yes Supes sucks. Make his special power be equivalent to INV or at least move it towards front of dial, then it's acceptable.

2Face

08/01/2007, 09:29

I may be the only one, but I really like Supes. He may have a terrible special power, but it seems comic accurate. Sure it would be better to also have toughness on those clicks, but there are enough Supes to meet anyones needs or play styles. V Supe, Hush Supes, MoS, KC Supes, SoD Supes, and even Superman Blue and Red offer lots of choices. I like this a lot better than just having another V Supes with some slight variations, which apparently everyone else would prefer. A lot of the other "problems" that Supes has seem to be for balance issues (do we really want HSS and 5 damage again?).

Doomsday looks like a blast and really fits my play style. His damage may appear lowish, but it is augmented by other powers, such as Flurry, Blades, or EW. I can't wait for JL to come out!

JacinB

08/01/2007, 09:59

The new Doomsday is just flat-out awesome ...

... but I see absolutely no reason why I'd ever consider using this version of Superman over, say, LE Man of Steel. To me, Man of Steel seems superior in nearly every way and he's cheaper.

Wimbley

08/01/2007, 10:08

Is it me or does Superman look like Ben Affleck? Just paint him black and white and grey - Hollywoodland. :)

i still say he looks like plastic man without his shades. B^P

rwint1968

08/01/2007, 10:15

All I can say is COUNT ME IN FOR JUSTICE LEAGUE. Totally Awesome!!

Thanks,
:cool:

Frontman

08/01/2007, 10:17

i still say he looks like plastic man without his shades. B^P

Shhhhhh. Don't reveal that the "Buy it by the Brick" coupon will be the same figure, only in the red, yellow, and flesh tones. ;)

JacinB

08/01/2007, 10:42

Shhhhhh. Don't reveal that the "Buy it by the Brick" coupon will be the same figure, only in the red, yellow, and flesh tones. ;)
Which will, eventually, of course, be complemented by a 'Superman Robot Plastic Man' that you can only get by mail after signing up for a 6-year subscription to InQuest while at a Wizard World convention.

Action_Jackson

08/01/2007, 10:50

Yes! Aquaman can talk with fish! Teh pwnage!

Oddly enough, this gives me a real reason to play Atlantis Rising and aquatic figures more often.

psmccormick

08/01/2007, 10:53

1 case sold. These are super mega freaking awesome.

I am mainly a Marvelite(X-Men, Spiderman specifically), but DC clix just ROCK!!!!!

wilburpenguin

08/01/2007, 11:11

Thev sculpts are looking increasingly like give-away toys at fast food restaurants.

UNSTOPPABLE looks very nice, though. Does this mean the Hulk as he should be?????

Repulsor rage

08/01/2007, 11:15

Wow that is the best version of JLA Supes I've ever seen. Sweet Special powers all around and with 5 figs released JL already looks better than Avenger what a shame. Cant wait to see Batman.

upchuc

08/01/2007, 11:39

Looks like Superman found steroids, increased muscle mass and pronounced chin, I think he has been hanging around Barry Bonds too much.

bigmike1

08/01/2007, 11:57

IS Embiggen optional? Might be nice to specify whether or not you WANT to be a Giant =)
Embiggen is NOT optional. Look at your PAC and you can see what powers are optional or not.Impervious used to be optional, now it's not. Because Embiggen is a Special(white) power, it's power is defined by the card. Embiggen doesn't say (optional), so it's not.

Ville

08/01/2007, 11:57

NICE!

These are all great pieces, even with their own little idiosyncrasies. Great sculpts and interesting Special Powers means lots of spent dinero on Justice League, for me anyways.

Joker rocks like a beast. If he would have been a Bat-Enemy, I would have withdrawn all my opinions about WK neglecting this team.

Supes is an imposing piece, but his special power just doesn't cut the mustard, considering his high points cost. Invulnerability + Defend would have been Outstanding.

Doomsday is a solid bruiser, with lots of options how to clobber the opposition. Pity that starting Battle Fury, that power slot could have been used a lot wiser.

Looking forward for this set! If the dials are easier to turn than they were in Avengers, JLA will rival Origin as the prime DC expansion.

Al_Mattityahu

08/01/2007, 12:19

Embiggen is NOT optional. Look at your PAC and you can see what powers are optional or not.Impervious used to be optional, now it's not. Because Embiggen is a Special(white) power, it's power is defined by the card. Embiggen doesn't say (optional), so it's not.
Actually...
All special powers are optional.

dexmark

08/01/2007, 12:37

Emperor Joker is very powerful. He is one of my best figure that I played back in Icons but with Justice League, this guy rocks. He can do + 2 with his special power. Does this count to the max of 3 damage or not?

Basically, in Las Vegas Craps dice - everybody always roll 7. So try to pick your number that always shows and that is 3 or 4. 4 is a safe bet. In my case, 3 or 4 would be almost guaranteed.

He has 10 range so that would kick arse. His mastermind click is awesome. Also his white power to cancel all powers is awesome too. Do he need line of sight to outwit stealth or not?

sol

08/01/2007, 12:40

Hmm...Of all the figures to NOT be good, why Superman? I realize this is an 'experienced' version...but even if Superman 'self sacrificed, he wouldn't take full damage without a reducer. He can't stop being Kryptonian whenever he wants. Not even one 11 attack value is...weak. I don't like every Superman STARTING with Hypersonic Speed. He doesn't fight like that in the comics. KC Superman is still the best one made.

And while Doomsday is *fairly* impressive due to his Special Power, he's 267 points, so i definitely won't play him in Starro Attacks. So he'll be sitting in a box for at least a month unless I play him at home.

King Shark is...unattractive in dial and sculpt for my money.

Joker is nice, but he's better off in Constructed.

Aquaman is actually pretty decent, even though he'll be getting Outsiders house ruled onto him in no time.

dexmark

08/01/2007, 12:43

Superman's white power is still okay. You can opt to increase your defense when you do so. Your attack value goes down but in open constructed you may also do sidekick with another person.

We do not know the feats for this set too. What if there is feat that would make somebody who takes damage from another attack reduce the damage by 2 or something like that. That would help this Superman rule because it is a feat versus a power.

Ville

08/01/2007, 13:06

Every one of Joker's powers have a flavour text. And they're hilarious!:laugh:

Thunderbolts

08/01/2007, 13:30

Wait, Hulk is giant and Doomsday is not? Bad times. (http://www.metagame.com/includes/image.aspx?s=200411522&c=DSM-159)

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 13:30

Looks like Wizkids needs a bigger Thesaurus?

Not that I have a better suggestion, I'm just saying.

"Adaptation".

4. Superman
...While I'm unsure about his special power, I would bet one of my 23 eventual spare Emperor Jokers that Wizkids deliberately put CCE with HSS. It helps keep the majority of whiners at bay about HSS cheese and slapping for 4-5 at range. I'm more than cool with this, and I actually happen to like the sculpt, although that doesn't mean I love the dial.

Everyone seems to be kinda bummed out about superman, but then you have to think; How many different ways can you make superman? You could make him godlike and an absolutely indestructable beast thats worth 300 points, or you could make more subtle incarnations of him.

The subtle versions shouldn't cost more than the godlike versions though. If you have the Man of Steel, you have to pay 26 MORE points to get less Supes on your team, and when would that ever be a good idea? It's like playing KC Batman over Legacy Batman.

Cliffjumper

08/01/2007, 14:06

Your wrong Cliff..Just like Perplexing then pushing to outwit ;)

That was a mistake that I knew better on...but I was damm anxious to get rid of Ares...oops my bad...same result either way.

But once a power is outwitted its off the dial till the beginning of the next turn...so if Unstoppable is outwitted on click 3 and he lands on it...he doesnt get the Invulnerable par the next turn or the ability to stop the clicks past it...that my take and some others. It would be like getting toughness outwitted hit for 4 and still having it, in essence you dont for the following attack.

Whatever....need a FAQ as usual.

On a side note, I dont understand why everyone is slamming Supers Special Powers? Has anyone here been playing the CoG events? With the average attack of 9 or 10 its rough hitting 18s, 19s, and now a 20? His high defense alone compensates and makes up for the lack of defense reducers. Lets face it, Superman is exactly a finess character who avoids getting hit...he takes it and dishes out more. I think its a different way of making him "invulnerable" to harm. Who cares if your opponent is doing five damage when they cant hit you, in respect not hurt you?

Now Poison wiping him out...well pretend its kryptonite and its not so hard to stomach.

Ill field him if I pull him and gladly take clicks to increase my defense and keep my opponent from scoring easy points.

bruce_banner73

08/01/2007, 14:33

now that is a dooms day and a super man sweet

Answerman

08/01/2007, 14:34

it seems obvious to me that Doomsdays special power works just like any other power if its outwitted and then he lands on it again, its still outwitted.

Why wouldn't it be?
As for Supes, If we had a straight up Supes from Seth I'd be far more accepting of this one.
But we don't.
The last Straight Forward Superman we got was Icons Supes!
And thats just wrong, why is it we can have a solid Thor, Silver Surfer, Hulk And freakin Hyperion, but only 'character' Superman?
Its really messed up that the REV of Hyperion from Supernova is more appealing a Superman Fig than Superman....

Robo-Onion

08/01/2007, 14:34

The Joker is great. Not really a DC fan so I will only be getting him and Batman&Robin, probably, unless they come out with a brand spanking new USEFUL High-point Bizzaro.

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 15:13

But once a power is outwitted its off the dial till the beginning of the next turn... ...Whatever....need a FAQ as usual.

I don't see why, it's all covered by existing rules. Unstoppable is outwitted, so it cannot do anything when it comes up later.

Lets face it, Superman is exactly a finess character who avoids getting hit...he takes it and dishes out more.
I thought he was exactly the man of steel who is completely invulnerable to anything short of magic, divine power, or kryptonite. Since a thug can shoot him with a handgun and hurt him as much as any human at that point, how is it accurate? Regardless of the actual probability of scoring that hit, it's more than zero, and that's bogus.

Now Poison wiping him out...well pretend its kryptonite and its not so hard to stomach.
Johhny Storm, Toro, Poison Ivy, et al are made of kryptonite?

Ill field him if I pull him and gladly take clicks to increase my defense and keep my opponent from scoring easy points.
By the same virtue Sufer is great in the CoG, but not accurate at all, nor that usable in constructed. The end result is still that when the tournament is over you have an overcosted and underpowered Supes who will be hard to use. Most good players should be able to keep him off his 19/20 clicks, and he's not that threatening at that point of his dial anyway.

I appreciate that they did another melee Supes, but they failed to improve on the Man of Steel, and made the figure more expensive to boot.

lunar

08/01/2007, 16:15

I definitely want to play this team:

Aquaman x 4
Dane Dorrance x 4

Frontman

08/01/2007, 16:25

I thought he was exactly the man of steel who is completely invulnerable to anything short of magic, divine power, or kryptonite. Since a thug can shoot him with a handgun and hurt him as much as any human at that point, how is it accurate? Regardless of the actual probability of scoring that hit, it's more than zero, and that's bogus.

By the same virtue Sufer is great in the CoG, but not accurate at all, nor that usable in constructed. The end result is still that when the tournament is over you have an overcosted and underpowered Supes who will be hard to use. Most good players should be able to keep him off his 19/20 clicks, and he's not that threatening at that point of his dial anyway.

I appreciate that they did another melee Supes, but they failed to improve on the Man of Steel, and made the figure more expensive to boot.

Hence the stupid nature of any argument of "comic accurate." It's a stupid argument to make. Superman can fly around the world in a matter of moments. What, he's supposed to have 50 for speed? Superman can lift an entire continent and toss it into space. So, his "superstrength" is the same as Wonderman, who can lift a semi?

Once you start down this slipperly slope, you never can get a full agreement on "comic accurate" heroclix. It's not worth getting worked up for.

Man of Steel, Icons Superman, and Young Superman are as close as we're gonna get. Otherwise, a Superman figure (as well as Silver Surfer, Thor, Hulk, etc) should be point costed at 500 a pop. Superman has taken down entire teams of heroes/villians. You can get crazy trying to say its "comic accurate."

Artie Deco

08/01/2007, 16:29

I have to agree with those who dislike this Superman. The special power is almost a complete waste to me. Why would I self sacrifice a 226 point figure to prevent damage to another figure that probably costs 1/3 as much? If he at least kept Toughness (similar to Doomsday) that would have helped; or if he were 30 points cheaper. And why have we regressed back to the HSS + CCE model? It didn't work back in Hypertime and Cosmic Justice, why would it work now? I just don't see myself using this particular Superman very much.

(Shrug) I could be wrong, though ....

Answerman

08/01/2007, 16:37

Hence the stupid nature of any argument of "comic accurate." It's a stupid argument to make.

Hey guys look!
Front told us all that we engage in stupid arguments, and that our concerns are stupid!

Nice Front.
:)
Glad to see that you feel attempts at portraying character as they are is flat out "stupid".
So you'd be perfectly happy with a Supes with no damage reducers 2 damage down the dial, and wait let me guess you're still happy with the OWAW Supes?

Or is that one just too accurate for you?

:)

Seriously man how is it that I have warning points when you swoop in and call the majority of realmsers "stupid" for our concerns regarding Supes?

Can't you just use less offensive words than "stupid".
Not exactly within the realm (no pun intended) of respectful, or polite.

Last I checked I received tons or warning points for telling someone to shove their grammar agenda, so its perfectly fine for you to refer to Superman fans in general as "stupid"?

Ga-buh?

Consistency consistency where for art thou consistency?

:)

Seriously though I don't think anybody here is asking for anything more than a fig that has all the basic power it should have.
And if you notice there vast majority agrees, so maybe lay off the "stupid" comments when you're talking about the vast Majority?

Thrumble Funk

08/01/2007, 16:45

Hey guys look!
Front told us all that we engage in stupid arguments, and that our concerns are stupid!

Nice Front.
:)
Glad to see that you feel attempts at portraying character as they are is flat out "stupid".
So you'd be perfectly happy with a Supes with no damage reducers 2 damage down the dial, and wait let me guess you're still happy with the OWAW Supes?

Or is that one just too accurate for you?

:)

Seriously man how is it that I have warning points when you swoop in and call the majority of realmsers "stupid" for our concerns regarding Supes?

Can't you just use less offensive words than "stupid".
Not exactly within the realm (no pun intended) of respectful, or polite.

Last I checked I received tons or warning points for telling someone to shove their grammar agenda, so its perfectly fine for you to refer to Superman fans in general as "stupid"?

Ga-buh?

Consistency consistency where for art thou consistency?

:)

Seriously though I don't think anybody here is asking for anything more than a fig that has all the basic power it should have.
And if you notice there vast majority agrees, so maybe lay off the "stupid" comments when you're talking about the vast Majority?

He called the nature of the argument stupid. Which it is.

I like this Superman, mainly because he brings a different interpretation of the character to the table.

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 17:07

Hence the stupid nature of any argument of "comic accurate." It's a stupid argument to make. Superman can fly around the world in a matter of moments. What, he's supposed to have 50 for speed? Superman can lift an entire continent and toss it into space. So, his "superstrength" is the same as Wonderman, who can lift a semi?

I'm not talking about larger game balance issues like Flash "realistically" deserving 500 HSS, I'm talking about something simple like Superman always having damage reducers. If a character is defined by certain traits, and those traits are not represented on the dial, and there is no larger game balance concern to explain the absence, I feel that is an issue.

From his earliest incarnation, bullets have bounced harmlessly off of Superman. I just don't understand how that translates into this Man of Aluminum dial. Does he get hit by a red solar ray half way through every fight? Yes, Supes steps in front of bullets to protect others, but they don't hurt him. It's a key aspect of who he is as a character.

Cliffjumper

08/01/2007, 17:08

I don't see why, it's all covered by existing rules. Unstoppable is outwitted, so it cannot do anything when it comes up later.

I thought he was exactly the man of steel who is completely invulnerable to anything short of magic, divine power, or kryptonite. Since a thug can shoot him with a handgun and hurt him as much as any human at that point, how is it accurate? Regardless of the actual probability of scoring that hit, it's more than zero, and that's bogus.

Johhny Storm, Toro, Poison Ivy, et al are made of kryptonite?

By the same virtue Sufer is great in the CoG, but not accurate at all, nor that usable in constructed. The end result is still that when the tournament is over you have an overcosted and underpowered Supes who will be hard to use. Most good players should be able to keep him off his 19/20 clicks, and he's not that threatening at that point of his dial anyway.

I appreciate that they did another melee Supes, but they failed to improve on the Man of Steel, and made the figure more expensive to boot.

Thats a matter of opinion as is most everything in these forums. I think a good player will actually find him quite easy to use and find ways to win with him...I know I will.

Is it the best interpretation of Superman...no...but for you big Man of Steel fans I dont see it being terribly different from the defend power. High defense on the fig with no damage reducers. Instead of passing it along (which has already been done with the previous fig incarnation) you can save the fig and give it to supes....kinda like reverse Mastermind. Its difffernt and if all the Supermans were the same theyd be no need for them. If the figure was called Superman: Champion Of Mankind his dial would make more sense...its justs the mode this fig is in. Its more of a balanced offense and defensive peice like the Man of Steel mailaway.

Personally I think the KC Supes is the best and then Vet ICons Supes MINUS the fact Ive never read a book where he actually unleashed that much ranged power according to clix standard from that kind of range at that speed...thats ridiculous. Superman doesnt range hit and run like a coward and thats exactly how this piece was played when it came out and to a lesser degree still is today and all other peices like him. I like the upfront clicks on this one more.

Its just an opinion, you hate the fig dont play it. I dont think its so bad and its a different spin on a figure that been made numerous times.

Answerman

08/01/2007, 17:22

He called the nature of the argument stupid. Which it is.

I like this Superman, mainly because he brings a different interpretation of the character to the table.

Well i disagree immensly.

The idea that characters shouldn't represent what they can do in comics is flat out wacky IMO.

And my beef here is that I told someone to shove an agenda, and got warning points, but Front can come along and call our opinion stupid and thats just fine and dandy...

Am I the only one who sees that as inconsistent and hypocritical?

Don't forget that you're in the minority here Thumble, most of us can't stand Supes , and Think Doomsday kicks butt...

:)

Answerman

08/01/2007, 17:24

Personally I think the KC Supes is the best and then Vet ICons Supes MINUS the fact Ive never read a book where he actually unleashed that much ranged power according to clix standard from that kind of range at that speed...thats ridiculous. Superman doesnt range hit and run like a coward and thats exactly how this piece was played when it came out and to a lesser degree still is today and all other peices like him. I like the upfront clicks on this one more.

Action Comics #775, and the "Never Ending battle" Story lines both have Supes using extensive hit and run tactics, using both his fists and his heat Vision.

Great reads!

Frontman

08/01/2007, 17:32

Well i disagree immensly.

The idea that characters shouldn't represent what they can do in comics is flat out wacky IMO.

And my beef here is that I told someone to shove an agenda, and got warning points, but Front can come along and call our opinion stupid and thats just fine and dandy...

Am I the only one who sees that as inconsistent and hypocritical?

Don't forget that you're in the minority here Thumble, most of us can't stand Supes , and Think Doomsday kicks butt...

:)

Show me the word "opinion" or the phrase "someone who makes this argument is stupid" in my post.

You can't.

I said the nature of this argument is stupid. We argue back and forth, citing comic issues, but at the end of the day, it proves nothing other than 3 pages of posts, on average and gets Heroclix players mad at each other.

Now, if Superman was given the power "webbing" feel free to argue comic accruacy. But when you get into it over defense powers (which Superman has on this figure. Its just not a very good defense power) that "He should have impervious over toughness" type stuff, its all subject to debate.

Now, if you wanted to just summarize your post with "I have a beef with Frontman," we all can get back to the topic at hand.

Frontman

08/01/2007, 17:40

I'm not talking about larger game balance issues like Flash "realistically" deserving 500 HSS, I'm talking about something simple like Superman always having damage reducers. If a character is defined by certain traits, and those traits are not represented on the dial, and there is no larger game balance concern to explain the absence, I feel that is an issue.

From his earliest incarnation, bullets have bounced harmlessly off of Superman. I just don't understand how that translates into this Man of Aluminum dial. Does he get hit by a red solar ray half way through every fight? Yes, Supes steps in front of bullets to protect others, but they don't hurt him. It's a key aspect of who he is as a character.

That's the difference between a comic and a game that has to have check and balances. XXX amount of one team should be able to beat XXX of another. Let me break it down here.

Ok, this Superman figure is costed at 226. That means that in a balanced game, 226 points of other figures should, given proper tactics and good dice rolls, be able to take him down. If you stay on the "comic accurate" theory, a figure with a gun should be able to take out a pog (easily enough) as well as characters like Huntress or Nightwing (no superpowers per se, but a bullet to the chest should theoretically take them out.) The same bullet should do no damage to Superman.

Now, how do you make that work in a game? If I take 226 points of gun using figures, they can't do a thing against Superman? So a team comprised of Deathstroke, Deadshot, the Punisher and Nick Fury can't do a thing against Superman, even if they equal the same amount of points?

If that's the case, then the points aren't appropriate.

The game needs to be able to balance out cost versus what a figure would "do" in a comic. Comic writers don't need to make the story or the fight "fair," whereas a game has to.

See my point on the stupid nature of comic accuracy arguments?

Thrumble Funk

08/01/2007, 17:42

Well i disagree immensly.

The idea that characters shouldn't represent what they can do in comics is flat out wacky IMO.

And my beef here is that I told someone to shove an agenda, and got warning points, but Front can come along and call our opinion stupid and thats just fine and dandy...

Am I the only one who sees that as inconsistent and hypocritical?

Don't forget that you're in the minority here Thumble, most of us can't stand Supes , and Think Doomsday kicks butt...

:)

And Superman can do (and has done) literally anything. Seriously. Everything from Super-mind reading to Super-hearing to Super-freaking-body inflation. So should we just have a Galactus-level Superman and be done with it? I'm all for it, if it'll stop people from harping about the fact that Superman isn't a godly as he should be.

Even better, maybe they should just reprint Icons Supes every set. Wait, no they shouldn't...that'd be boring as hell.

I can see what you're saying, but this is apples and oranges here. Should they have given him a damage reducer? Sure. Should he just have yet another dial of brown/silver/orange in the defense slot? No, because that's freakin' boring! Any Supes fan will tell you that he is capable of more than being a beatstick. I don't think its wrong to have a few versions of Supes that reflect his versatility.

Cliffjumper

08/01/2007, 17:53

Cliffjumper

08/01/2007, 17:56

Action Comics #775, and the "Never Ending battle" Story lines both have Supes using extensive hit and run tactics, using both his fists and his heat Vision.

Great reads!

Okey dokey then...so that 1 comic Supe incarnation has been made. Overall he doesnt do that book in and book out. So whats the big deal with having different Supermans...its ok with me. Otherwise this game would of died out a couple years back.

Keep making them...at some point theyre gonna make one for everyone to have as their favorite.

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 18:04

Thats a matter of opinion as is most everything in these forums. I think a good player will actually find him quite easy to use and find ways to win with him...I know I will.

I'm not saying that he's useless, just than MoS is cheaper and more powerful, but that has a lot to do with the deeply flawed dial generator. For 226 points this Superman is too defensive. He should be more like 180ish. His dial overall reminds me of the 130 point Ultra Boy with some added omph.

Is it the best interpretation of Superman...no...but for you big Man of Steel fans I dont see it being terribly different from the defend power. High defense on the fig with no damage reducers. Instead of passing it along (which has already been done with the previous fig incarnation) you can save the fig and give it to supes....kinda like reverse Mastermind. ...

I accept the Man of Steel's Defend because at the time there was no alternative. This Supes could have easily had at least toughness along with reverse-Mastermind. With special powers there are no limits anymore. Also, the Man of Steel doesn't get hurt just for defending others, this one does.

Personally I think the KC Supes is the best and then Vet ICons Supes MINUS the fact Ive never read a book where he actually unleashed that much ranged power according to clix standard from that kind of range at that speed...thats ridiculous. Superman doesnt range hit and run like a coward and thats exactly how this piece was played when it came out and to a lesser degree still is today and all other peices like him. I like the upfront clicks on this one more.

Batman/Superman: Supergirl arc, there's a fight about mid way through where Supes displays what would seem to be at least 5 damage Pulsewave with Novablast at 20 range. :) He looks like he took clicks for it afterwards, but it's quite a blast.

I agree that melee Superman figures are the best, which is why I like the Man of Steel so much. What I don't like are figures that Seth has sabotaged to prevent them from being too good, because the broken dial generator makes them MORE expensive as a result, and Seth still won't or can't adjust their costs to something more realistic.

CuriousLurker

08/01/2007, 18:06

Frontman

08/01/2007, 18:08

Devon_v

08/01/2007, 18:19

That's the difference between a comic and a game that has to have check and balances. XXX amount of one team should be able to beat XXX of another. Let me break it down here.

Ok, this Superman figure is costed at 226. That means that in a balanced game, 226 points of other figures should, given proper tactics and good dice rolls, be able to take him down. If you stay on the "comic accurate" theory, a figure with a gun should be able to take out a pog (easily enough) as well as characters like Huntress or Nightwing (no superpowers per se, but a bullet to the chest should theoretically take them out.) The same bullet should do no damage to Superman.

Now, how do you make that work in a game? If I take 226 points of gun using figures, they can't do a thing against Superman? So a team comprised of Deathstroke, Deadshot, the Punisher and Nick Fury can't do a thing against Superman, even if they equal the same amount of points?

This is already true. Characters with guns generally have 2 damage at range unless it's their whole shtick, like Punisher, or in the case of snipers who tend to get 3 these days. Such characters, no matter how many you field, cannot harm Superman without a critical. 226 points worth of thugs cannot beat him without incredible luck. That's a simple fact.

If that's the case, then the points aren't appropriate.

They never have been. The dial generator is flawed.

The game needs to be able to balance out cost versus what a figure would "do" in a comic. Comic writers don't need to make the story or the fight "fair," whereas a game has to.

See my point on the stupid nature of comic accuracy arguments?

No, because we have two existing, "balanced" mechanics. Guns inflict 2 damage. Superman reduces damage by 2, therefore he is bulletproof. This Superman does not use that existing and semi-accurate mechanic even though there is nothing preventing him from doing so. Defensively this Supes is little better than Mockingbird at the end of his dial.

Cliffjumper

08/01/2007, 18:48

Well, my personal use of the New Supes power would of been exactly like reverse Mastermind....adjacent figures with a lesser cost can have their damage shifted to Superman...who should have Invulnerability much like Doomsdays Speical when it pops up...to reduce it. Then there wouldve been no need for silly 18, 19, and 20 defenses. He could stair case down from 17 to 15 with this power with damage reducers like all other Supermans and had the Protective ability to boot...that way he'd be protected from attacks against him AND his allies.

I didnt say I loved the power or that it couldnt be better...but its kinda sorta close and I can live with it. If it was like I described about Id play him for 250

Youre also assuming a bit much that the dial generator is broken...Wkds formula and the ones folks have tried to crack arent anywhere near the same. And whose to say it hasnt change from one set to another...which cleary it has since Id say Ultimates.

darkkrisp

08/01/2007, 19:02

Why is everyone one talking up doomsday? He sucks. 261pts and he gets a 2 damage? He is going to be thumped at range worse the the Giant Hulk from avengers. Untstoppable is not immune to pulse wave. Pulse wave will destroy him the same way is does any other character.

Pulse wave ignores all powers and abilities. It does not say ignores all powers and abilities except for this one that says stop clicking when you get to it. That is a power that lets you do that so it is ignored.

Is this Aquaman a new character or was his origin retconned

As for Superman I think most of the complaining is from people expecting a more power full Icons version. HSS with CCE expert will make you think more instead of just running and gunning so I guess thats what is frustrating people.

As for his special power it has its uses. If you have a character that might be ruined from a 1 or 2 click hit why wouldnt you use supes power to protect them and make your defense higher so you can work cleanup?

At that point in time if you are facing characters that can hit a 18-20 easily you have more to worry about.

The DC Explorer

08/01/2007, 19:05

joker is going to rule... o ya he does in his own mind....

C-Dog

08/01/2007, 19:35

I'm personally loving these new figs.

1) The Supes will play like the old Icons one/NGN one, and yet won't be as cheesy as either was. FINALLY a Supes I can play and not feel guilty about :)

2) The Joker should be fun as heck. I sure hope that its Imperv on his dial and not Willpower, though -- he needs some good Defensive capabilities to back up that 200-point cost

3) I think Doomsday rocks. One combo that I thought of to get him past that first click -- have him Passenger in a buddy. Even if he gets hit, Unstoppable will stop the damage on click 3 -- where he has an 11 attack plus Super Strength and Exploit Weakness. Ouch.

C

Frontman

08/01/2007, 21:03

No, because we have two existing, "balanced" mechanics. Guns inflict 2 damage. Superman reduces damage by 2, therefore he is bulletproof. This Superman does not use that existing and semi-accurate mechanic even though there is nothing preventing him from doing so. Defensively this Supes is little better than Mockingbird at the end of his dial.

You do know this dial is from when, you know, he DIED, right?

Thrumble Funk

08/01/2007, 21:53

You do know this dial is from when, you know, he DIED, right?

Huh. Never really looked at it that way, but yeah, it is! Hence the special power (cause how many people did he fly in front of to protect them from Doomsday?). Awesome!

CornsilkSW

08/01/2007, 22:18

doomsday's damage is disappointing, superman's special power and end dial are dumb, joker looks like his dial was plugged in wrong (imperv on card not on dial listed) and the only think I like are the awesome sculpts and aquaman's telepathy.

thumbs down from me.

W10002

08/01/2007, 23:38

To those with complaints on Doomsday....keep in mind, what he lacks in damage and speed, he makes up defensively. I mean, c'mon, he's gonna be really hard to take down.

Although people think his speed should be better, I think he's perfect right now. I mean, he's not the fastest monster. But when he marches, he's going to be hard to take down.

As for his low damage...remember, for the most part, he does have EW. I mean, it's like 2 penetrating damage! I mean, ok, it's kinda stupid how he can deal 2 damage to Superman, and also deal only 2 to someone like Robin, but that's why he has flurry! What he lacks in damage, he makes up with the right combo of powers.

Sigdr

08/02/2007, 00:33

Magog's defense is really poor, and his damage drops off sharply in melee. Once he makes his usually dreaded alpha strike Doomsday will take two clicks, smile, and proceed to smash Magog to bits. Put the dials side by side, give both the Soda Machine and check the numbers. Doomsday utterly destroys him, usually ending up on his 5-6th click and ready to take out whatever Magog packed for support.

Magog has no reason to close range with Doomsday right away. He can open up at range and put Doomsday on to Unstoppable from there. Doomsday still has to close distance, at which point Magog can follow up with his big EW attack, which puts Doomsday on his second unstoppable click. From there, Doomsday is pretty much...well...doomed.

Spider-Dave

08/02/2007, 00:55

Why do people keep comparing figs like Doomsday to Icons Superman, Magog, etc.

It is obvious the designers are attempting to change the paradigm of the game's design, and these old figs are of course going to be superior.

look at the current environment, and also keep in mind that not every fig needs to be designed around a constructed, 300 point mentality.

Nor must every fig be designed around sealed play.

Doomsday does what it seems the wanted-make a fig that is amongst the toughest in the game to kill. I feel they succeeded. Granted, I would have given him a few more points in damage and Quintessance, make him an even 300 points, but I'm quite pleased with the fun factor of the character.

And for all the haters-well he's a SR, so odds are against you being faced with the horror of having to own one.

Slayer_Xtreme

08/02/2007, 02:14

Ok Joker is just plan sick and twisted and I can't wait to play him although I am wondering about the imperv on the card. Look for the Clown Prince of Crime to be a staple in Starro events. Doomsday's white power is very nice but I just don't like the idea of fielding a 261 point figure with no range and no front loaded move and attack powers. Supes I'll have to see in play to really get a handle on him. His I'll take damage for you white power I guess makes sense for trying to get him on his last click with that 20 defense but the lack of Superman Ally TA makes him difficult to play. You'd think Wizkids would learn not to give Supes the JLA TA since you hardly see a JLA Supes played over one with the Superman TA. Aquaman is nice for his points although I'm not seeing too much use for his white power short of an all fish move team unless of course we get alot of fish movers in this set. King Shark isn't horrible but I just don't know if I like that 9 attack on a 100 point figure although I guess I should stop complaints about that in the Seth era. Overall though I'm starting to get excited about this set but for the love of everything holy, unholy, and otherwise find me some info on Lobo!!

SevenBlueSeven

08/02/2007, 02:21

002 R Aquaman
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl002.jpg
jl002
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_002_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_002_B.jpg

Nice! Now I have a leader for my 10+ Stingrays using Alpha Flight TA. Fear the army of the 29 Point 4th string heroes!

054 U Doomsday
http://www.hcrealms.com/units/jl054.jpg
jl054
http://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_054_A.jpghttp://www.hcrealms.com/temp/HDJL_054_B.jpg

Ok... As I read this... I think I have a MAJOR problem with it. If he is hit when on his second click of Unstoppable, Doomsday would just bounce back to his FIRST click of Unstoppable!!! That would make him impossible to KO!!!

Answerman

08/02/2007, 03:47

Okey dokey then...so that 1 comic Supe incarnation has been made. Overall he doesnt do that book in and book out. So whats the big deal with having different Supermans...its ok with me. Otherwise this game would of died out a couple years back.

Keep making them...at some point theyre gonna make one for everyone to have as their favorite.

I cited a double paged special and a Story arc comprised of about 8 issues.

It was off the top of my head.

Still the simple fact that you equated my Citing a single issue (action #775) and a story arc (Never ending Battle) with 1 comic shows you have some serious math issues...

:)

apocalypso

08/02/2007, 05:46

Can't wait to see more JLA figs!

ihavemercy

08/02/2007, 05:57

y do they always screw over the marvel packs

madslaust

08/02/2007, 06:20

y do they always screw over the marvel packs
because DC is better?

darthfatty

08/02/2007, 06:24

y do they always screw over the marvel packs

Everybody knows Wizkids hates Marvel.

ZZZ

08/02/2007, 07:47

Ok... As I read this... I think I have a MAJOR problem with it. If he is hit when on his second click of Unstoppable, Doomsday would just bounce back to his FIRST click of Unstoppable!!! That would make him impossible to KO!!!
I'm not sure where you got that...

It means that if you hit him while he is on a click of Unstoppable, then he reduces the damage by 2. If you hit him for 8 (or any) damage on the click right before Unstoppable, the dial only gets clicked once because Unstoppable is now showing (assuming the Impervious roll was not made)...

:edit: I see what you were thinking...you would also stop turning the dial when you reached KO.

Frontman

08/02/2007, 09:15

Everybody knows Wizkids hates Marvel.

Yeah, since Marvel makes them money.......waitaminit.

echopryme

08/02/2007, 12:39

Everybody knows Wizkids hates Marvel.

Oh quitcherbichin...

:laugh:

Wait 'till you see Lobo. THAT guys gonna be a monster, because they know we've been clamoring for him.

HippieX

08/02/2007, 12:41

The Joker is pretty fantastic. I am very impressed. They just can't make a bad Joker anymore can they :). He seems like we would be a ton of fun to play.

Although if he had the Batman-Enemy TA we would be perfect, but I will take what I can get.

Has Harley been Retired? If so with his current power she better be in this set :)

Devon_v

08/02/2007, 13:30

You do know this dial is from when, you know, he DIED, right?

But he died from Doomsday being insanely strong, not from his suddenly becoming human.

Magog has no reason to close range with Doomsday right away. He can open up at range and put Doomsday on to Unstoppable from there. Doomsday still has to close distance, at which point Magog can follow up with his big EW attack, which puts Doomsday on his second unstoppable click. From there, Doomsday is pretty much...well...doomed.

Without Running Shot, Magog can't shoot Doomsday unless he leaves himself open. Magog's range is 8, so if he can shoot Doomsday, Doomsday can base him. Magog can still win if DD fails his KC roll, something I hadn't taken into account, but I don't see Magog getting a ranged attack any other way. Doomsday is also free to push either to base him or hit him, as Unstoppable will protect him.

Frontman

08/02/2007, 13:57

But he died from Doomsday being insanely strong, not from his suddenly becoming human.

Without Running Shot, Magog can't shoot Doomsday unless he leaves himself open. Magog's range is 8, so if he can shoot Doomsday, Doomsday can base him. Magog can still win if DD fails his KC roll, something I hadn't taken into account, but I don't see Magog getting a ranged attack any other way. Doomsday is also free to push either to base him or hit him, as Unstoppable will protect him.

The theory on Superman is hit him hard enough and long enough, he starts to bleed; they've done that in stories before. Beat him down long enough like that? He might just be able to die from "mortal" wounds.

And he's a human with a DEF of 20. How many "normal" humans would be that hard to hit?

remywokeup

08/02/2007, 14:01

Perfect Superman:

First click: an activation click as Clark Kent with low stats, Earthbound and Self-Sacrifice.

Second click: Superman with like 15-movement Charge, Super-Strength and Unstoppable.

Your opponent attacks one of your figures only to have the attack blocked by a fully powered Superman who flies in out of nowhere.

Sithspit87

08/02/2007, 15:14

This set already looks about a million times cooler then Avenger.

Answerman

08/02/2007, 17:01

Show me the word "opinion" or the phrase "someone who makes this argument is stupid" in my post.

You can't.

I said the nature of this argument is stupid. We argue back and forth, citing comic issues, but at the end of the day, it proves nothing other than 3 pages of posts, on average and gets Heroclix players mad at each other.

Now, if Superman was given the power "webbing" feel free to argue comic accruacy. But when you get into it over defense powers (which Superman has on this figure. Its just not a very good defense power) that "He should have impervious over toughness" type stuff, its all subject to debate.

Now, if you wanted to just summarize your post with "I have a beef with Frontman," we all can get back to the topic at hand.

Interesting that you attach such immature and emotional behavior to my post, when its intent was simply as an observation.

You responeded to someones argument, the same sort of argument that most people have used to express why they don't like the fig by saying:

"Hence the stupid nature of any argument of "comic accurate." It's a stupid argument to make."

Right out of the gate.
So essentially you walked into a discussion well into it (page 10) and told everyone thats been using said arguement that our argument is stupid.

And then you actually later explain that most of the arguments that take place on these boards are in fact stupid and go no where.

Dude.
I have a 72% warning for saying to someone:
"take your Caps and shove em"
and referring to HCrealms as a "silly little place".

How is it not a complete double standard that you get to walk into a conversation and insult the stance a substantial amount of realmsers are using without any attempts at being poilte.

Theres really very little difference between telling a group of people or an individual that thier argument is stupid or that they in fact are stupid.

For example you could have said:
"the argument is flawed"
"the problem with that argument is"
"Its a weak argument"

But you called it, the argument (and by association us that are using it) stupid.
Twice.
And then when called on it you danced around the issue, and became accusatory.

Ever think that maybe just taking responsibility for your potential rudeness might be an easier way to go.
"I didn't mean to be so harsh" woulda been enough.
Even:
"I didn't mean it as an insult"

You explained yourself fine later, even though I do disagree with you.

But since you feel that others shouldn't be rude to realmsers, should you not have to follow your own rules?

tyizle

08/02/2007, 17:34

can u mastermind 2 squares away with giant status ??(jokers 4th click)

Answerman

08/02/2007, 18:18

can u mastermind 2 squares away with giant status ??(jokers 4th click)
Unfortunately no, it requires base to base adjacency, like defend, and poison.

Frontman

08/02/2007, 18:54

Interesting that you attach such immature and emotional behavior to my post, when its intent was simply as an observation.

You responeded to someones argument, the same sort of argument that most people have used to express why they don't like the fig by saying:

"Hence the stupid nature of any argument of "comic accurate." It's a stupid argument to make."

Right out of the gate.
So essentially you walked into a discussion well into it (page 10) and told everyone thats been using said arguement that our argument is stupid.

And then you actually later explain that most of the arguments that take place on these boards are in fact stupid and go no where.

Dude.
I have a 72% warning for saying to someone:
"take your Caps and shove em"
and referring to HCrealms as a "silly little place".

How is it not a complete double standard that you get to walk into a conversation and insult the stance a substantial amount of realmsers are using without any attempts at being poilte.

Theres really very little difference between telling a group of people or an individual that thier argument is stupid or that they in fact are stupid.

For example you could have said:
"the argument is flawed"
"the problem with that argument is"
"Its a weak argument"

But you called it, the argument (and by association us that are using it) stupid.
Twice.
And then when called on it you danced around the issue, and became accusatory.

Ever think that maybe just taking responsibility for your potential rudeness might be an easier way to go.
"I didn't mean to be so harsh" woulda been enough.
Even:
"I didn't mean it as an insult"

You explained yourself fine later, even though I do disagree with you.

But since you feel that others shouldn't be rude to realmsers, should you not have to follow your own rules?

You see an insult, the rest saw it for what it was.

Answerman

08/02/2007, 19:09

Frontman

08/02/2007, 19:12

Frontman, Answerman, can we stop with the argueing. You're both right!

Now can we get back to the most pressing of comic questions...

Why does King Shark wear pants when most sharks don't have visable... umm... tackle? :noid:

Discuss...

You mean, like this post here, Answerman? A post where someone asked for us to drop it, which if you noticed I did, yet you kept on going?

Look, you've got a beef with me; that's no big secret. You brag about getting rep, but last I checked, you were getting rep to put off a NEGATIVE rep for being insulting *gasp, the horror* like you've been time and again (and once again in this thread.)

You got a bone to pick? That's fine; you don't have to like me. But one thing you have to do follow site rules. And when members of the site ask for you to let something go, YOU SHOULD.

Answerman

08/02/2007, 19:19

You mean, like this post here, Answerman? A post where someone asked for us to drop it, which if you noticed I did, yet you kept on going?

Look, you've got a beef with me; that's no big secret. You brag about getting rep, but last I checked, you were getting rep to put off a NEGATIVE rep for being insulting *gasp, the horror* like you've been time and again (and once again in this thread.)

You got a bone to pick? That's fine; you don't have to like me. But one thing you have to do follow site rules. And when members of the site ask for you to let something go, YOU SHOULD.

Dude, pay attention wouldja?
I responded to his post, and its NOT personal.
The emotion you think is attached to what I write isn't there.

But for someone whos quick to tell people what they should do, you really don't listen to similar advice...
:)
Anyways, I'm sorry for going on and bothering anybody.
I'll desist from responding to you in regards to this somewhat unimportant subject.
Honest.

Frontman

08/02/2007, 19:22

Dude, pay attention wouldja?
I responded to his post, and its NOT personal.
The emotion you think is attached to what I write isn't there.

But for someone whos quick to tell people what they should do, you really don't listen to similar advice...
:)
Anyways, I'm sorry for going on and bothering anybody.
I'll desist from responding to you in regards to this somewhat unimportant subject.
Honest.

Dude,

Between this and your work at honking off ohoni, starting a war there? Take some time off.

wrecker_c

08/02/2007, 19:54

Doomsday is a man's man

ohoni

08/02/2007, 22:12

Between this and your work at honking off ohoni, starting a war there? Take some time off.

Oooh, cold. :(

Well I hope you're back soon, Answer, I'll try to spread enough rep around that I can rep you again, these sort of personal attacks from above are really uncool.

Valentyne

08/03/2007, 00:27

Why is everyone one talking up doomsday? He sucks. 261pts and he gets a 2 damage? He is going to be thumped at range worse the the Giant Hulk from avengers. Untstoppable is not immune to pulse wave. Pulse wave will destroy him the same way is does any other character.

Pulse wave ignores all powers and abilities. It does not say ignores all powers and abilities except for this one that says stop clicking when you get to it. That is a power that lets you do that so it is ignored.

I am of the thought that PW ignored only what was shown on the dial at the time of the attack. Hence, if he did take a 4 point shot at the beginning of his dial then he'd stop at his first Unstoppable. Unstoppable reads "When you turn Doomsday's dial as a result of him TAKING DAMAGE, stop turning the dial when Unstoppable appears in the slot." The Pulse Wave attack caused him to take damage...soooo...

Last I knew, the Mystics TA damaged PWers when they took damage from said attack. If this has changed, please notify me.

One final thing: Characteristically, Doomsday was created to evolve and overcome any threat. One might surmise that he would also overcome a power such as a pulse wave. Just a thought.

ohoni

08/03/2007, 01:09

I am of the thought that PW ignored only what was shown on the dial at the time of the attack. Hence, if he did take a 4 point shot at the beginning of his dial then he'd stop at his first Unstoppable. Unstoppable reads "When you turn Doomsday's dial as a result of him TAKING DAMAGE, stop turning the dial when Unstoppable appears in the slot." The Pulse Wave attack caused him to take damage...soooo...

What's the ruling on Combat Reflexes? If you PW someone, they take damage with KB, and that damage clicks them to CR, then either CR would protect them from the KB damage, or it wouldn't. If the ruling is that PW overrides CR in this case, then it would also override Unstoppable. If not, then it doesn't.

mell

08/03/2007, 01:09

Quasimoto

08/03/2007, 01:42

I'm not liking the superman dial much either. But in regards to the special power ability, it's an option to get them faster to that 19 or 20 defence. I,m pretty sure no one wants to kill off their 226 pt figure.
I think it's a great option, but not one that will be used too often. However, if I'm really in a pinch and see 9's and 8's for attacks, I will definitely use the power to get to my 19 or 20.

ShellShock

08/03/2007, 08:21

Aquaman seems alright, nothing to write home about

Sharky is kinda cool, nothing special there either

Supes is pretty much a big time toned down Icons Vet, not a bad piece, just different

Doomsday I like, but he should be at least a supes enemy for the same poitns

Answerman

08/03/2007, 08:48

Dude,

Between this and your work at honking off ohoni, starting a war there? Take some time off.

So you're angry at me for apologizing, and trying to clarify things?

And just felt like Ohoni needed defending, even when we get along just fine?

Dude, you need to get some serious perspective here.

Rukuz

08/03/2007, 09:19

So you're angry at me for apologizing, and trying to clarify things?

And just felt like Ohoni needed defending, even when we get along just fine?

Dude, you need to get some serious perspective here.
The Rukuz is most impressed with Answermans ability to stay online with 100% warning points..You Sir are a pip among gladys!

goodman

08/03/2007, 09:44

Well he does have Unstoppable underneath his name, guess we all know why now :)

dunno where the Joy is coming from though :noid:................:p

Devon_v

08/03/2007, 15:34

The theory on Superman is hit him hard enough and long enough, he starts to bleed; they've done that in stories before. Beat him down long enough like that? He might just be able to die from "mortal" wounds.
Half way through his dial? Even the golden age Supes from Origin is never without toughness. I just don't understand kryptonians without damage reduction.

And he's a human with a DEF of 20. How many "normal" humans would be that hard to hit?
Most martial artist characters. Mockingbird has 19DV in melee, so does Psylocke (I know she has psionic powers, but I assume that DV is her ninjitsu training). Manhunter and Kraven the Spider also have a 19 melee DV, and I don't think they're supers. The Swordsman and Ka-Zar got 19DV from range. Supes has them with the 20 from either, and he should in this case, but it's not the to-hit chance so much as the fact that auto-hit powers can take him out without even needing enhancement from a feat. Plain old poison KOes him. Forceblast or Crusade TA into a wall KOes him. If Toro sets up some smoke clouds Supes is KOed. Just some toughness would at least force Armor Piercing to be in play and shield him from knockback.

Some people have said that if Supes is faced with anything that can hit 18/19/20 by the point it comes up on his dial then his player is doing something wrong, but Supes could be on those clicks in one attack from the Meteor to open the game. Now all it takes is a few lucky shots or any auto-hit power and he's done. If anything it excludes him from high-point matches where 11-12 AVs are lurking.

Thrumble Funk

08/03/2007, 15:38

Half way through his dial? Even the golden age Supes from Origin is never without toughness. I just don't understand kryptonians without damage reduction.

Most martial artist characters. Mockingbird has 19DV in melee, so does Psylocke (I know she has psionic powers, but I assume that DV is her ninjitsu training). Manhunter and Kraven the Spider also have a 19 melee DV, and I don't think they're supers. The Swordsman and Ka-Zar got 19DV from range. Supes has them with the 20 from either, and he should in this case, but it's not the to-hit chance so much as the fact that auto-hit powers can take him out without even needing enhancement from a feat. Plain old poison KOes him. Forceblast or Crusade TA into a wall KOes him. If Toro sets up some smoke clouds Supes is KOed. Just some toughness would at least force Armor Piercing to be in play and shield him from knockback.

Some people have said that if Supes is faced with anything that can hit 18/19/20 by the point it comes up on his dial then his player is doing somehting wrong, but Supes could be on those clicks in one attack from the Meteor to open the game. Now all it takes is a few lucky shots or any auto-hit power and he's done. If anything it excludes him from high-point matches where 11-12 AVs are lurking.

I can understand the concerns with his naked DV, but that's all the more reason to play cautiously. If played/supported efficiently, this Supes should never see the back end of his dial.