rogues in heroclix are. . .

[moon_knight99]

I am tired of the crappy rogues that they shovel out. the rogues are one of the most powerful villain teams ever. but so far besides mirror master, captain cold and captain boomerang they have all kinda sucked and I am going to show how they should be. starting with

pied piper
Team: calculator
Range: 5 //
Points: 74
keywords: rogues
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal810173891518915178152781526714167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - melody: may use running shot, stealth, and mind control


next

Weather wizard
Team: calculator
Range: 10 //
Points: 75
Keywords: rogues
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal12101731110173109162891528915288152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

next

Trickster
Team: calculator
Range: 6 /
Points: 68
Keywords: rogues
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal89162891628815278152781416714167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
SPEED- Bag of tricks: may use smoke cloud, energy explosion and incapacitate

ATTACK- mischievous may use flurry, force blast and plasticity

next

The top
Team: calculator
Range: 4 /
Points: 115
Keywords: rogues
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal10101731010173109162109152981518915279162610173KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

next

heat wave
Team: calculator
Range: 6 /
Points: 72
Keywords: rogues
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8916289162881517815278142681326714167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOAttack - burn baby: may use energy explosion but deal 2 damage instead of 1

next

Abra cadabra
Team: calculator
Range: 8 //
Points: 105
Keywords: rogues
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal810183810173891628916278162781427814278132KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

and finally

Dr. Alchemy
Team: calculator
Range: 7 /
Points: 60
Keywords: rogues
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal8917389173781626715257151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

and that is how they should be

[pseudosoldier]

And this (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47) is where these should go.

[punksNOTdead]

hmmm... wrong sub forum...

but all in all... good dials... and that weather wizard will rock!!!

[Rokk_Krinn]

Though you've just given them all "peak human"-level attack attributes; the Rogues are good but they get by on gimmicks and teamwork (which works nicely with Wildcard'ing in new teammates to add gimmicks...tah-dah! :) ). Sure, they've learned over the years how to hit the Flash but that doesn't mean they're also "peak human perfection" in most cases.

[Phantom]

You have to be kidding me.

5-damage ranged attacks from Pied Piper? 8 click dials? Heat Wave with Charge?

[Pashmina]

Why is trickster doing 4 damage?

[moon_knight99]

actually I was just thinking about stuff like their attacks and damage and I am going to tinker with them a bit

[Sucrebo]

I agree with Phantom & Pash. Most of those are way overpowered/inaccurate.

[TheBionicLeopard]

considering we are getting A new captain boomerang on top of abra-kadabra, dr. alchemy, and heatwave. the rogues are gonna be pretty good after justice league comes out. and one of the most powerful villain teams ever? come on. they can hardly ever beat the flash let alone the justice league. and the one and only time they beat the flash (bart) after they killed him they were scared ####less and ready to blame inertia for everything that they did.

also the top should have hss instead of charge.

[Arokosaki]

I am tired of the crappy rogues that they shovel out.

Crappy isn't the right word, but I guess that's a matter of opinion.


the rogues are one of the most powerful villain teams ever.

Not sure where you're pulling this from, beyond a jaded lens. The rogues are one of the most colorful villain teams, sure, and the best to threaten the Flash. As a matter of personal opinion, I'd agree they're one of my favorite teams around...but that doesn't make them uberpowerful. Heck, I like them because they AREN'T. It's been shown time and again a big gun [or Batman] can clean their collective clocks.


but so far besides mirror master, captain cold and captain boomerang they have all kinda sucked and I am going to show how they should be. starting with

...

and that is how they should be

I'll agree that the rogues created pre-Seth have been lackluster at best, even when you take the old dial paradigm into account. But you also seem to be ignoring Dr. Light and the fact that the Trickster that's been made is NOT the original, now adult / gov agent / whatever Trickster and is just fine for being the new kid on the block. I'd also argue that Seth's Heat Wave, Abra Kadabra, and Dr. Alchemy are great renditions [although I think Heatwave should have a more consistent AV and a 10 somewhere...like 10, 9, 9, 8, 8, 8].

OTOH, I do like your Top and Weather Wizard, they look like pretty solid! I also think your FBI Trickster is on the right track if a tad deep dialed and with a little more powers than I'd give him [but then, I guess he is more Batman-esque at this point, isn't he?] and that your take on Dr. Alchemy is an interesting rep of his abilities. But when it comes back to Piper, Heat Wave, and Abra, I'm left going '...wha?' The dials for the values seem like steals, and they get not just a lot of value love but dial length I'm not sure is warranted. When were of the three on that level or power, and when did Heatwave become FF Hawkeye? [p.s.: I think FF Hawkeye has too much damage and not enough of the current GA/Hawkeye philosophy of dial design]

[moon_knight99]

true I have taken all of your opinions into consideration and I mad some changes to their numbers

[Arokosaki]

Definitely like the new dials :) I've never been the best at costing dials, but your new Trickster, Heat Wave, Piper, and Abra are ones I'd field. The biggest thing is that their values are back out of the stratosphere, but high where warranted.

-Abra is annoyingly hard to hit [at first] and has some damage potential, but does best when he has cronies to aid and peters out after the hero [the Flash] bypass his tricks the first time. Piper much the same, he has a very respectable first click and then resorts to more trickery [I'm guessing the PW is for causing rats to swarm? a great interpretation if it is].

-I also like how your Heatwave keeps his burnination potential and has the 'when he hits, it BURRRRNS' aspect without being 'look Pa! I burned Flash to his end dial without trying!' As a personal preference, I'd swap his CR clicks to each have +1 natural defense and Barrier instead...I know he's got brawling ability, but he never struck me as a wall bouncer and he's certainly set up fire walls before.

-Rounding out, I'm just not sure about Trickster...partly because I don't trust myself to build his dial [I want to give him too much, then shave off too much, then go back to giving him too much]. Which explains why I like the shave you gave his Chuck Norris beard, but think the clippers could have been a bit shorter :p I'm also tempted to give him a more sporadic dial...not 'crazy Joker' style, but definitely 'where the heck did that stink bomb come from?'. Or maybe a special power that doesn't appear on consecutive clicks, something like:
Bag of Tricks: Trickster can use Smoke Cloud, Energy Explosion, and Incapacitate. [?] and/or a movement power like 'Trickery' or 'Unexpected Suprise': Trickster can use Force Blast, Plasticity, and Flurry. [?]
Maybe it's just that he's one of those guys it's hard to do justice too not because their powers are hard to represent, but because you want to give them options without overburdening them, creating another crazy Joker dial, or falling short. Curse Trickster and his awesomeness!

[moon_knight99]

thanks arokosaki for the ideas on trickster

[St-Dumas]

How come Trickster's speed power is all attack powers and his attack power is all speed powers?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think some are still a bit overpowered but some of them are just plain not doing what I want them to do.

Take the Top for instance. He should have some mind control, but he should also have some HSS. You've given him Charge, incap, and leadership. :confused:

Toughness on Weather Wizard and Trickster? Why?

RS just doesn't seem right for Piper. He doesn't run while playing most of the time.

I'm also confused by the manditory one or two clicks of willpower and/or combat reflexes on most of the dials. Honestly, I wouldn't give most of them those two powers.

A two damage energy explosion attack is something I've been waiting for, so I do have to give you props for that.

[moon_knight99]

to answer st.dumas question it is because I thought that he should have Bag of trick longer then he should have mischievous and that only worked if I mixed up the powers a little and still do what I wanted with him

and now to jackofhearts2005s concerns about the top I did give him mind control, and I know what you mean about the HSS I am just not sure he spins that fast cause when I think of speedsters I think of flash and quicksilver and I think he spins fast but not that fast. the charge reflects that. the incap is because he can induce vertigo in others. and the leadership is because he has been the leader of the rogues

the toughness on weather wizard I can under stand and I will change but I do think that trickster (James Jesse) should have toughness at first

like you said he doesn't run and play MOST of the time that is why I gave him options those first clicks he can hide (stealth) try try to get someones Attention (mind control) or run and summon rats(RS)

yeah I saw that to I went a little crazy with the defense I'll fix that

thank you I thought that power was appropriate for heat wave

[moon_knight99]

there we go defense "fixed"

[Yes!]

Correct me if I'm wrong Flash readers, but I don't think Captain Cold is a very good rendition. Based on what I've seen of him, I would give him more attack value. He is very skilled, he manages to freeze flashes on occasion! Topping out at 9 attack is pretty pitiful for someone who considers fighting non-speedsters to be fighting people in "slow motion". In "Justice" he was pretty scary. I don't read the main flash comic so is he that much worse in regular stories?

As for these dials, I like them a lot especially trickster! I myself would give them much shorter dials though. The rogues seem to me to fit better as high impact, low endurance type characters. As wildcards they have pretty good availability to Suicide Squad and Stealth teams that will keep them alive.

[Jackofhearts2005]

You are absolutely correct.

Captain Cold should have had a more consistant attack, with at least 2 10s if you ask me. Toping him out at a 9 was a mistake.

Other than that, and that I find all versions save the LE to be not worth their point cost, I like Captain Cold.

I think the Trickster we have represents Axel pretty well (nigh useless, but fun), though he is also overcosted.

[Yes!]

I do like that rookie Trickster has Leap-Climb on his first click, it really makes him a great break-away taxi for those of us who started playing long after Lockjaw :D

[Jackofhearts2005]

L/C + flight means he can make close combat attacks from soaring.

That makes me want to field him more than any other version of Trickster, but he still sucks for the points. :ermm:

[The Flash89]

I don't have much a problem with the Rogues. Well, the newer ones anyways.

Weather Wizard blew. Really, really, bad. But look, Mirror Master, Dr. Alchemy, Heat Wave, Captain Cold, and Captain Boomerang are good.

Oh, and Trickster wasn't godlike but I mean, what else could you do? He's not the most powerful guy in the world or anything.

[stevenrogers]

I don't have much a problem with the Rogues. Well, the newer ones anyways.

Weather Wizard blew. Really, really, bad. But look, Mirror Master, Dr. Alchemy, Heat Wave, Captain Cold, and Captain Boomerang are good.

Oh, and Trickster wasn't godlike but I mean, what else could you do? He's not the most powerful guy in the world or anything.


I concur :cheeky:

[Jackofhearts2005]

I agree. Mirror Masters' Vet was perfect and the rogues in JL are pretty good as well.

I'm kindof upset that there are so many things I want in JL.
I was planning on just buying a lot of titans. :p