View Full Version : NFL Patriots Cheated?
St. Cuthbert
09/12/2007, 13:05
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3014677
As a long-time Patriots fan, I was amazed and disappointed by this news. I thought the Patriots organization was one of the most classy and respectful of football teams out there, but this new scandal really puts them in a bad spot. I hope it turns out not to be true, but I don't think that'll happen.
Your thoughts?
BudPalmer
09/12/2007, 13:13
As a Eagles fan, I want my Super Bowl win!
Matt Brady very well may have cheated on Bridget Moynahan!
malakim2099
09/12/2007, 13:58
Well, I just don't understand why you need to bother, I mean...
1. You have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, and a pretty good coach.
2. You are playing... THE JETS!
Sheesh, what's next, trying to give the Raiders food poisoning before you play them? :p
DocDoom187
09/12/2007, 14:38
I hate this coverage. Its no big deal. Almost EVRY team does it some point in the season, the Pats just got caught. It's being way over hyped.
I hate this coverage. Its no big deal. Almost VERY team does it some point in the season, the Pats just got caught. It's being way over hyped.
... I guess I've never quite gotten the moral equivalency arguments.
"Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah, it's cheating. But, even though no one else has gotten caught doing it (or, you know, been accused of it), everyone does it. So, it's not like it should be that big of a deal ..."
It doesn't matter who else is doing it, and it doesn't matter whether or not you're the only one to get busted for it. If it's wrong, it's wrong.
The Pats cheated.
The Pats got caught cheating.
The Pats need to be punished for cheating.
Period.
lensnart
09/12/2007, 15:04
Dirty Patriots, that is just what I would expect from the Patriots.
GO COLTS!!
I hate this coverage. Its no big deal. Almost VERY team does it some point in the season, the Pats just got caught. It's being way over hyped.Does the - "awwww! Everyone else is doing it!" argument ever work?
CurBludgeon
09/12/2007, 15:39
Sheesh, what's next, trying to give the Raiders food poisoning before you play them? :p
Hey. We're still bitter about the Snow Job game.
BudPalmer
09/12/2007, 15:41
Hey. We're still bitter about the Snow Job game.
You'd think all the new things to be bitter about would have erased that. LOL
NFL security officials confiscated a camera and videotape from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella on the New England sidelines when it was suspected he was recording the Jets' defensive signals. Sources say the visual evidence confirmed the suspicion.If that was the case, they deserved to get caught!
How much money to NFL teams have? They couldn't get a high tech and less conspicuous camera? Something that streamed the info via bluetooth or wireless to an offsite hard drive where the evidence would be nearly impossible to retrieve?
For their stupidity and 1990's tech savvy, they deserve whatever they get.
It's one thing to cheat, its another to cheat poorly.
DocDoom187
09/12/2007, 15:51
... I guess I've never quite gotten the moral equivalency arguments.
"Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah, it's cheating. But, even though no one else has gotten caught doing it (or, you know, been accused of it), everyone does it. So, it's not like it should be that big of a deal ..."
It doesn't matter who else is doing it, and it doesn't matter whether or not you're the only one to get busted for it. If it's wrong, it's wrong.
The Pats cheated.
The Pats got caught cheating.
The Pats need to be punished for cheating.
Period.
I;m not saying its not wrong. I;'m saying it should not receive this hype, and it should not ruin the Pats season. It was a dumb mistake.
BudPalmer
09/12/2007, 15:55
I like to think that making mistakes comes with dealing with the consequences. If the media swing on this isn't favorable for the Pats, that is their problem. They either need to stop cheating or they need to do a better job of it.
DocDoom187
09/12/2007, 16:02
They should be fined. Maybe MAYBE have the first game of the season count as a loss, and then move on. If they do it again, they should be suspended for the year.
BudPalmer
09/12/2007, 16:06
They should be fined. Maybe MAYBE have the first game of the season count as a loss, and then move on. If they do it again, they should be suspended for the year.
I think they should forfeit the game and lose a pick.
It was a dumb mistake.
Uh, no.
Calling it a mistake implies that there was no intent, and that the wrong-doing was entirely accidental.
What they did was not a mistake. They didn't mistakenly pack a camera and take it to a Jets game. The didn't accidentally take pictures of the plays the Jets' coaches were calling in.
What they did is called 'cheating' and, yes, they should be punished for it.
I think they should forfeit the game and lose a pick.
Agreed. I think they should forfeit the game, and the Jets (as they were the offended party) should get the Pats 3rd or 4th round pick.
St. Cuthbert
09/12/2007, 16:26
Dirty Patriots, that is just what I would expect from the Patriots.
GO COLTS!!
:tired:
I agree with Bud, they should forfeit the next game. And whoever actually did it, that Mike guy, suspended for working for a long while.
Dark Flash2099
09/12/2007, 16:31
I think they should lose at least a 2nd round and a 4th round pick in the draft next year.
DocDoom187
09/12/2007, 17:27
I think they should forfeit the game and lose a pick.
That sounds reasonable. I'm all for it.
spiderman9797
09/12/2007, 17:49
I agree that I think they should lose a draft pick, count the game as a loss, or both, but I'm stunned at something else:
Why, oh WHY would the Patriots of all teams do that? It doesn't matter what team is doing it, it's still wrong, but why would one of the best teams of this era (if not -the- best team of this era) cheat like that? When you have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Lawrence Moroney, Adalius Thomas, and other great players as well as a really good coach, why would you feel the need to cheat?
I guess it's a stupid question, but still. I would have plenty confidence in my team if I had an All-Star team like that. And even if I didn't, I would have to live with it because I wouldn't cheat.
hail_eris
09/12/2007, 18:48
When you have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Lawrence Moroney, Adalius Thomas, and other great players as well as a really good coach, why would you feel the need to cheat?
Err, it was the "really good coach" who made the decision to cheat...
Maybe we just figured out how he became a 'really good coach' ...
"Dude, Bill Belichick is so good at directing his offense, you'd think he had some sort of inside knowledge of what the opponent's defense was going to be and was calling it in to Tom Brady before every freakin' play!"
:cheeky:
St. Cuthbert
09/12/2007, 21:51
I agree that I think they should lose a draft pick, count the game as a loss, or both, but I'm stunned at something else:
Why, oh WHY would the Patriots of all teams do that? It doesn't matter what team is doing it, it's still wrong, but why would one of the best teams of this era (if not -the- best team of this era) cheat like that? When you have Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Lawrence Moroney, Adalius Thomas, and other great players as well as a really good coach, why would you feel the need to cheat?
I guess it's a stupid question, but still. I would have plenty confidence in my team if I had an All-Star team like that. And even if I didn't, I would have to live with it because I wouldn't cheat.
That's what I didn't understand as well and why this scandal came as such a surprise.
Belichick just issued a vague statement about the interpretation of the league rules regarding videotaping, dunno what that's all about. It's weird, it's like there's a mirror universe Patriots team that came to our world with a cheating assistant coach and an unprepared head coach.
mike_houghton
09/12/2007, 23:57
HAHAHA I hope he gets caught again and gets booted.... stupid people leaving Cleveland and never offering us a hope.. looking at you Manny, Art, Bill, Vinny
malakim2099
09/13/2007, 00:08
I think they should forfeit the game and lose a pick.
Nah, they shouldn't forfeit the game... but they should forfeit their first round pick to the Jets.
It's just really pathetic, in truth.
m_a_caque
09/13/2007, 10:57
cheaters never win. oh wait. :laugh:
well they should be punished, but i think there probably a lot more teams doing similar things to get signals for plays... is any sport free from some sort of scandal these days???????????
Antipathy
09/13/2007, 10:59
cheaters never win. oh wait. :laugh:
well they should be punished, but i think there probably a lot more teams doing similar things to get signals for plays... is any sport free from some sort of scandal these days???????????
Extreme Crochet
Inbetweener
09/14/2007, 10:32
Well, I think the punishment was a fair one. As a YUGE Patriots fan I can't feel nothing but embarassment. But I'm still going to the Chargers game Sunday night and I plan to paint my face in silver, red, and blue.
However, like many things this has become a media circus of sorts and in the long run I'm disappointed that this will always be a good reason for other cities to somehow dig deep into their imaginations and feel better about their pathetic football teams and perhaps even justify why New England is not the greatest dynasty in football history. Not saying I won't always chuckle at such arguments, but now you all have them to make I guess. If anything, it is that which really chaps me.
BudPalmer
09/14/2007, 11:18
They got off with just a fine. So much for coming down hard. So the NFL is teaching teams that it will only cost them $750,000 to cheat. Good lesson. :rolleyes:
andrewtarius
09/14/2007, 12:29
They got off with just a fine. So much for coming down hard. So the NFL is teaching teams that it will only cost them $750,000 to cheat. Good lesson. :rolleyes:
The fines were not all.
Yeah, Belichick was fined $500,000, the team $250,000. But they also lost draft picks for the 2008 season. FIRST round if the make the playoffs, SECOND AND THIRD round picks if they do not qualify. I think that is fair.
BudPalmer
09/14/2007, 12:34
The fines were not all.
Yeah, Belichick was fined $500,000, the team $250,000. But they also lost draft picks for the 2008 season. FIRST round if the make the playoffs, SECOND AND THIRD round picks if they do not qualify. I think that is fair.
I missed the picks part of the punishment. That is fair.
Inbetweener
09/14/2007, 13:20
They got off with just a fine. So much for coming down hard. So the NFL is teaching teams that it will only cost them $750,000 to cheat. Good lesson. :rolleyes:
Actually, if they make the playoffs they lose a first round draft pick and if they don't they lose a second or third. That's what I heard but I could be wrong.
Inbetweener
09/14/2007, 13:21
That was a pointless post I suppose as AT seem to cover it already. :classic:
lensnart
09/14/2007, 14:05
If the Pats lose this week there will be a lot of people saying that they only won by cheating.
And they would be right.
Go Colts!!!
I missed the picks part of the punishment. That is fair.
... well, except that what's not typically being mentioned is that they've also already got San Francisco's 1st round pick for next year, too, and they won't lose that one as part of their punishment and it'll likely be a better pick than the one they would've lost if they make it to the playoffs.
:cheeky:
They got off with just a fine. So much for coming down hard. So the NFL is teaching teams that it will only cost them $750,000 to cheat. Good lesson. :rolleyes:
Um, you forgot the draft picks...1st round if they make it to the playoffs..or 2nd and 3rd round picks if they don't. That will hurt and that will make teams perk up and take notice.
BudPalmer
09/14/2007, 14:22
Thank goodness everyone is here to tell me about the draft picks! :cheeky:
Inbetweener
09/14/2007, 14:50
If the Pats lose this week there will be a lot of people saying that they only won by cheating.
And they would be right.
Go Colts!!!
Hey, the Colts won me quite a bit of money last year (another reason a forfeit would've been a stupid penalty: gambling). I like those guys too but I don't love them.
All in all, though, you're absolutely right...you won't see me post about the Patriots if they lose Sunday night. For better or worse, people will view them in a very different light from now on.
spiderman9797
09/14/2007, 17:45
However, like many things this has become a media circus of sorts and in the long run I'm disappointed that this will always be a good reason for other cities to somehow dig deep into their imaginations and feel better about their pathetic football teams and perhaps even justify why New England is not the greatest dynasty in football history. Not saying I won't always chuckle at such arguments, but now you all have them to make I guess. If anything, it is that which really chaps me.
Not to get into a flame war here, but I truly don't think they are the "greatest dynasty in football history". I just don't. They recently started to establish themselves as one of the elite dynasties, but I think it would be too much to say that they are the greatest EVER.
Frontman
09/14/2007, 22:19
This punishment is a joke.
An assistant coach gets caught with HGH to cure his impotence and gets half of his salary taken away and 5 games; yet the Pats do something to effect the outcome of a game, and its just money?
Sorry, this one Goodell should of slammed down hard on the Pats. I like the Pats, Brady's my freakin' fantasy QB for crying out loud; but loosing ONE of their first round picks does nothing.
Coach Belichick should of been suspended and banned from contact with the team, for at least 2 weeks, if not 4. He breaks that and contacts the team? Rest of the season.
THAT would of made the point. This? Hell, Lovie Smith could write that check out in advance and tape the Chiefs coordinators Sunday.
spiderman9797
09/15/2007, 00:34
This punishment is a joke.
An assistant coach gets caught with HGH to cure his impotence and gets half of his salary taken away and 5 games; yet the Pats do something to effect the outcome of a game, and its just money?
Sorry, this one Goodell should of slammed down hard on the Pats. I like the Pats, Brady's my freakin' fantasy QB for crying out loud; but loosing ONE of their first round picks does nothing.
Eh, I think that an assistant coach using HGH and getting punished for it is absolutely rediculous as it is (he isn't an athlete, after all), but the fact that the punishment was that harsh is even more rediculous. Half of his salary? Jeezz-usss!:confused:
However, I think losing a first-round draft pick is a pretty big deal. What I think he should have done? If they make the playoffs, they lose their 1st round draft pick that comes first (likely to be the San Fran pick). If they don't make the playoffs (very unlikely that they don't), take away their 2nd and 3rd just like it is.
I think they should be punished (undoubtedly fined, but fining the team and Belichik doesn't have that big of an impact really), but I think taking away a first round draft pick is a pretty big deal. I don't, however, think that it's overboard.
Frontman
09/15/2007, 00:46
Problem is Spidey, they have 5 first day picks. No team has that many going into this draft. Losing 1 isn't as much of a big deal. Now, if they took ALL first round picks, I'd be more impressed with the punishment.
But Belichik should of at least gotten 1 flamin' game. Let's not even bring in how hard Goodell has come down on players, but then when it comes to a pretty high-profile coach, he slaps him on the wrist, wags his finger at him, and basically goes,
"Now Billy, I better not catch you doing that again."
spiderman9797
09/15/2007, 02:20
I certainly agree that Bill should be suspended from the team for at least a game. The assistant coach in Dallas getting that suspension is still just absolutely absurd in my mind.
However, I didn't know that they had 5 first-round draft picks. How did they get all of those?
Dark Flash2099
09/15/2007, 10:44
I certainly agree that Bill should be suspended from the team for at least a game. The assistant coach in Dallas getting that suspension is still just absolutely absurd in my mind.
However, I didn't know that they had 5 first-round draft picks. How did they get all of those?
They have two first round picks. They have five first day (IE: Rounds one through three) picks.
stark's heir
09/15/2007, 11:46
Punishment was not fair in IMO...but Goodell is the Judge/Jury/Executioner, not the fans.
What still irks me, is that we still don't how long this has gone on. The same guy that taped last week got caught last year in a game vs GB... Did the Pats start this when Belichick came to NE? I realize that Brady still needed to make his throws and WR's still needed to catch the ball.
Just really makes me wonder...
Frontman
09/15/2007, 17:58
They have two first round picks. They have five first day (IE: Rounds one through three) picks.
What he said, sorry for the confusion. 2 first round, 3 second round.
DocDoom187
09/15/2007, 22:32
Punishment was not fair in IMO...but Goodell is the Judge/Jury/Executioner, not the fans.
You mean Goodell Castro?
;)
mike_houghton
09/15/2007, 23:12
Time of Death ...
22:10
Cause of Death?
Overuse
lol jokes over
DocDoom187
09/15/2007, 23:19
Time of Death ...
22:10
Cause of Death?
Overuse
lol jokes over
I despise you.
:p
Frontman
09/16/2007, 00:18
Time of Death ...
22:10
Cause of Death?
Overuse
lol jokes over
*blows whistle*
Delay of game. 5 yard penalty. Repeat down.
*blows whistle*
mike_houghton
09/16/2007, 07:47
lol seriously it is funny.. just busting your footballs
Inbetweener
09/17/2007, 13:18
This punishment is a joke.
An assistant coach gets caught with HGH to cure his impotence and gets half of his salary taken away and 5 games; yet the Pats do something to effect the outcome of a game, and its just money?
And draft picks, which effect the team far more.
HGH is an illegal substance...spying on a team's defense is not against the law.
stark's heir
09/18/2007, 22:07
And draft picks, which effect the team far more.
HGH is an illegal substance...spying on a team's defense is not against the law.
It is in the NFL...
Jackofhearts2005
09/18/2007, 22:37
... I guess I've never quite gotten the moral equivalency arguments.
"Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah, it's cheating. But, even though no one else has gotten caught doing it (or, you know, been accused of it), everyone does it. So, it's not like it should be that big of a deal ..."
It doesn't matter who else is doing it, and it doesn't matter whether or not you're the only one to get busted for it. If it's wrong, it's wrong.
The Pats cheated.
The Pats got caught cheating.
The Pats need to be punished for cheating.
Period.
Damn straight!
Inbetweener
09/19/2007, 16:11
It is in the NFL...
What is your point? If I fail to comply with communication regulations at my job, I'm breaking the rules and I'll be punished accordingly...if I break the law onsite at work, I'm terminated and likely more...it will be taken far more seriously. Obviously there is a significant difference on how the NFL treats the breaking of it's own rules and how it treats the breaking of real actual laws and that's pretty consistent with most other organizations that I can think of.
The comparison of who broke substance abuse laws with someone breaking league rules is not a fair one and the expectation that they should be treated in the same way is unrealistic.
RCricket55
10/20/2007, 19:16
And draft picks, which effect the team far more.
HGH is an illegal substance...spying on a team's defense is not against the law.
is HGH illegal or just a banned NFL substance. I am suprosed that his penalty is worse...probably more related to how serious the issue needs to be covered since it has been in the front of many people for althletes
RCricket55
10/20/2007, 19:19
What is your point? If I fail to comply with communication regulations at my job, I'm breaking the rules and I'll be punished accordingly...if I break the law onsite at work, I'm terminated and likely more...it will be taken far more seriously. Obviously there is a significant difference on how the NFL treats the breaking of it's own rules and how it treats the breaking of real actual laws and that's pretty consistent with most other organizations that I can think of.
The comparison of who broke substance abuse laws with someone breaking league rules is not a fair one and the expectation that they should be treated in the same way is unrealistic.
did my own research
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/04/11/chasing.hgh/
the coach had a legit reason based on this article.
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