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View Full Version : Please give us more fun & useful high point figs


nevismusic
10/01/2007, 19:40
dear WK,

i usually don't post these sorts of things but PLEASE consider giving us more useful, fun and more effective to play high point figures.

i've been noticing a trend in the past few sets of low point characters, say under 80 pts, getting extremely cost effective and potent dials for their costs with high attacks, defenses and damage while higher point characters seem to get dials loaded with lots of powers (many of which are incompatible with each other) and very average stats. an example of the former is V mockingbird, an example of the latter- V green lantern from origin.

for the most part i've generally tried to ignore these types of things and typically play the best versions of a given character out of a set, like R GL from origin over the E or V. but now that we typically no longer have the REV dials in the same manner as before, each and every dial becomes that much more important.

with JL we have a 226 point superman that opens with a base 3 damage. if he's in close he can use CCE or use an object with super strength. but if you need to attack from range, say your HSS or super strength has been outwitted and there's no one adjacent to use CCE on, superman now hits as hard as 70 point green arrow. it just doesn't feel right for superman and it certainly doesn't feel right for 226 points. when the players at our local tourneys try these kinds of dials they always end up saying the same thing- that it was a waste and that the points spent don't come anywhere near the points spent on cheaper figs even though the team builds are the same.

along the same lines, look at the superman 1 million figure. for 283 points we get a figure who has a single click of 4 damage, a few 3s and several clicks of 2. like JL supes fig, he has a lot of apparently expensive powers that just don't compliment each other at all, like flurry and CCE with 2 base damage, psychic blast for 3 damage with CCE and HSS instead of the far more useful running shot. contrasted with the markedly cheaper KC superman from unleashed, it's hard to understand how anyone is supposed to have fun playing a figure that makes you feel like you've thrown your points away, not to mention having a super rare fig that doesn't feel special at all.

i'm sure the point of this kind of dial was to get players who typically run and hide with HSS characters to stay in the middle of a battle and fight it out but crippling the character doesn't achieve that. it only causes those people to play something else that they can abuse and leaves those of us who would like to play superman, without running away, wondering why we wasted 226 points.

i understand not every version of a character needs to be as potent as say KC superman or KC green lantern, but neither do they need to be as lackluster for the points as the JL superman figs or origin EV GL. how about dials that are a happy medium between the two? for example, why not a superman with the move/attack of the JL version with the damage output of U man of steel?

please, just consider it.

KC Caolán
10/01/2007, 19:58
I agree on most of your points nevismusic.

Firstly. It seems to me that since they made Icons Supes, they have been afraid of making him again. They even changed HSS to make it less efficient and now they are trying to make him even less effective by moving the damage way down.

It has been mentioned in some other threads that maybe a version of Supes that has the opposite of Surfers HSS lite would suffice. Superman can use HSS but may only make CC attacks. This makes him feel a lot more like Superman and would also make them less likely to be worried about giving him 4 or even 5 base damage.

As for the small point big power figs, there are certainly a lot of them out there now. The fact that you are likely to come up against Shang-Chi, Bronze Tiger, Mockingbird and the like, while never seeing Vet Martian Manhunter or Alan Scott GL is frustrating to say the least. I want my teams to have some of the A listers in it not the C Team.

nevismusic
10/02/2007, 11:17
I agree on most of your points nevismusic.

Firstly. It seems to me that since they made Icons Supes, they have been afraid of making him again. They even changed HSS to make it less efficient and now they are trying to make him even less effective by moving the damage way down.

It has been mentioned in some other threads that maybe a version of Supes that has the opposite of Surfers HSS lite would suffice. Superman can use HSS but may only make CC attacks. This makes him feel a lot more like Superman and would also make them less likely to be worried about giving him 4 or even 5 base damage.


but that's the thing about it... why punish superman for the actions of a few people who choose to play him like the cowards they are? i NEVER run away when playing superman, flash, etc. though i've often played against those who do and i've beaten them. it's not that difficult to outsmart the cowards. i know it can be tough sometimes, but let's stop crippling characters because of the bad apples and at least give folks to choice to use a superman (and other high point figures because it's not just him) worth putting on the map.

but even more often i've played against people do DO NOT run away when using supes and other HSS guys. it's not the power or the dial, it's the people using it. if someone regularly comes up against people playing like cowards it's time to out think them and show them the error of their ways or look into playing w/a new group of people. WK doesn't need to do our thinking for us and take all the enjoyment out of playing a high point guy. especially superman, who is often the most asked about fig from new players (in my experience).




As for the small point big power figs, there are certainly a lot of them out there now. The fact that you are likely to come up against Shang-Chi, Bronze Tiger, Mockingbird and the like, while never seeing Vet Martian Manhunter or Alan Scott GL is frustrating to say the least. I want my teams to have some of the A listers in it not the C Team.


this is exactly what i'm talking about. teams of mockingbird, lockjaw, joker or another poisoner and so on rather than a team of cap and vision and other avengers or batman and superman and the JLA. no one EVER plays V green lanter/alan scott or V martian manhunter at any venue or tourney i've been to. in fact i've never even heard of anyone doing so in any regular game. WK needs to ask why not.

Neverfate
10/02/2007, 11:57
The reason Vet Icons Superman 'sucks' is because if you don't use him with cheesey hit-and-run tactics he will get ripped apart. I Normally don't defend Superman (one could say I even hate him) and I know that if someone is using him and doesn't run, I will crush him. But it's not just him, you can swarm just about any high point figure. Hell, I even swarmed Doomsday with Vet Hydroman, new Aquaman and Kingshark and Rookie Animal Man and beat him.

Also, you're wrong Nevimusic, I play Vet Green Lantern/Alan Scott!! lol. He's way over-priced, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do for the sake of using one of your favorite characters.

I think, it's just more difficult to use a high point figure, espeically in a game dominated by low-point swarms of Mockingbirds.

nevismusic
10/02/2007, 13:37
But it's not just him, you can swarm just about any high point figure. Hell, I even swarmed Doomsday with Vet Hydroman, new Aquaman and Kingshark and Rookie Animal Man and beat him.


you raise a good point about swarming big point guys with figs like hydroman and the like... how does that seem right to the designers at WK? not that the big guys should be unbeatable, but they should be equal to a group of figs matching the same point costs. what we have now seems like, despite the action disadvantage, WK is designing the high point guys to be far less that an equivalent point cost team of guys like hydroman and aquaman.


Also, you're wrong Nevimusic, I play Vet Green Lantern/Alan Scott!! lol. He's way over-priced, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do for the sake of using one of your favorite characters.

I think, it's just more difficult to use a high point figure, espeically in a game dominated by low-point swarms of Mockingbirds.

haha! cool :) i never said no one ever plays him, just not at in venue i've been to or tourney i've been told about, so you're the first :) it was meant more as a comparison to how often people see teams like lockjaw and whatever folks like that are playing. actually i play V alan scott at home often myself, because i like the character, but it requires a team to be made to heavily compensate for his weaknesses, which, to me is just unreasonable in a regular tourney format considering his point cost. i'm of the opinion that expensive figs should need little to no help in bolstering their own stats/abilities. otherwise, i'd be better off using a cheaper fig.

as a side note, why does the V GL only have a 10 attack? he's been at the superhero thing for decades yet, according to WK, never got any better at it?

but you, as someone else who sees the problems in expensive figs like V GL, seem to agree that some additional thought needs to be put into increasing the effectiveness of high point figs and that's what really matters here :)

surfersilver83
10/02/2007, 13:58
Ill take a useful, accurate, high point silver surfer. Well the avengers one is usefull but an accurate one though around 275 or so sounds good.

Neverfate
10/02/2007, 15:58
Ill take a useful, accurate, high point silver surfer. Well the avengers one is usefull but an accurate one though around 275 or so sounds good.

I think Surfer is one of a select few characters they should be able to get to 300 points even. He's just that awesome.

Back to what Nevimusic was saying--

I was thinking, some of the high point figures, say Doomsday should actually be classified as a Duo figure. They should have some form of permenant flurry. Unlike Supes or Surfer, Doomsday can't use any other tactic other than walking forward and eating people.

I'm thinking a slightly retooled dial, with the Duo mechanic, would deffinately help Doomsday out so that I can not swarm him with characters like Hydroman.

nevismusic
10/02/2007, 18:57
I think Surfer is one of a select few characters they should be able to get to 300 points even. He's just that awesome.

Back to what Nevimusic was saying--

I was thinking, some of the high point figures, say Doomsday should actually be classified as a Duo figure. They should have some form of permenant flurry. Unlike Supes or Surfer,



i like that idea. but instead of creating a new version of something we already have, how about straight up multi-attack like the colossal figs? the duo attack is like a mini-version of that but the actual multi-attack would allow doomsday to use powers like charge along with it.

something needs to happen at WK to allow for better design for high point guys to make them viable. something at the fundamental level beyond just adding feats to them. maybe something like what you mention could work.


Doomsday can't use any other tactic other than walking forward and eating people.

LOL!! oh man that was REALLY funny :)