Mitchell Report

[Jarimy123]

Mitchell Report is getting unveiled right now. For all you baseball fans kiss this sport goodbye - well your trust in it. They are about to unveil a ton of names of users of steriods and HGH. Might wanna tune in to your local sports station or ESPN radio and take a listen. Kinda sad.

[Granite Moose]

At this point, if you're surprised by any names that come out, you just haven't been paying attention.

[Jarimy123]

Andy Petitte is sort of a surprise, Roger Clemens on the other hand not at all.

[Granite Moose]

With how close Pettite and Clemens are, Pettite isn't that much of a surprise to me.
And if anyone is surprised by Clemens' inclusion, I can't even think of a response to that.

It will be surprising to me if anybody named in the report doesn't vehemently deny any and all involvement in using the drugs, though.

[absolutvt69]

Wait... you mean pro-athletes use things to help them get an edge... I'm stunned. I love how everyone acts all outraged about steroids in baseball. Like they haven't been using amphetamines for decades. And you notice there isn't much talk about steroids in the NFL... mainly b/c I think it's fairly accepted that a lot of players use. I don't know... maybe it's just me but I really don't care and really never did. People have always tried to get an edge in sports. This is nothing new... it's just become more "high tech" and scientific over the years.

[Wolverine_Hulk]

Wait... you mean pro-athletes use things to help them get an edge... I'm stunned. I love how everyone acts all outraged about steroids in baseball. Like they haven't been using amphetamines for decades. And you notice there isn't much talk about steroids in the NFL... mainly b/c I think it's fairly accepted that a lot of players use. I don't know... maybe it's just me but I really don't care and really never did. People have always tried to get an edge in sports. This is nothing new... it's just become more "high tech" and scientific over the years.

A big part of it is that a lot of these performance enhancing drugs are illegal.

[Jarimy123]

I'm not saying I'm surprised by any of it, but if you follow sports at all this report is pretty big that's all I'm saying. Any idiot knows people are using performance enhancing drugs, but it's just big news when a report comes out.

[Wolverine_Hulk]

Is there a list of all the players who are on the list? I personally don't want to read all 409 pages.

[Jarimy123]

I dunno there prob will be. David Justice is on there that was a surprise

[Granite Moose]

Is there a list of all the players who are on the list? I personally don't want to read all 409 pages.

Here you go: Players named in Mitchell Report (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7560358)

[drzoidberg1599]

I hate the fact that baseball writers who vote for the Hall of Fame are saying they wont vote in people who allegedly used PED's. Why throw out all the records? If the pitcher and hitter are using them than it seems fair to me. I heard a report on ESPN that said there are "cleaners" to get your system free of traces of PED's that can work in 24-48 hours. The company who does the testing has to call the organization a week in advance in order to get proper papers and parking permits before they can carry out the testing. Sounds very random to me... Surprise!!! We'll be there in a week or so!

[DocDoom187]

EVERYONE LOOK AND SEE


I see no A-Rod


I see no Pujols


I see no Braun

I see no Jeter

I see no Felix Hernandez


I see no Wang

I still love the sport.

[DocDoom187]

I hate the fact that baseball writers who vote for the Hall of Fame are saying they wont vote in people who allegedly used PED's. Why throw out all the records? If the pitcher and hitter are using them than it seems fair to me. I heard a report on ESPN that said there are "cleaners" to get your system free of traces of PED's that can work in 24-48 hours. The company who does the testing has to call the organization a week in advance in order to get proper papers and parking permits before they can carry out the testing. Sounds very random to me... Surprise!!! We'll be there in a week or so!
This is actually exactly how I feel. If everyone is using them, though it may be unethical, it's fair ground. Like cheese in heroclix, if everyone has access to protected and lamp and stuff, then its not cheese. Equal opportunity.

[Wolverine_Hulk]

Some of the drugs they used were illegal...

[Granite Moose]

If the pitcher and hitter are using them than it seems fair to me.

This is actually exactly how I feel. If everyone is using them, though it may be unethical, it's fair ground.

While I see where both of you are coming from, I don't quite agree with you there. Besides the whole personal ethics thing where you should play the game the right way or not play at all, you are basically endorsing any form of cheating. If the excuse is "Hey, everyone could do it if they want to", then anything is fair game.

"I corked my bat, but anyone could do it, so it's okay."
"I doctored the ball so it curves more than normal, but anyone could do it, so it's okay."
"I beaned the batter, but anyone could do it, so it's okay."

You can say I'm taking your comments out of context or to the extreme, but the rules are the rules and they're there for a reason. Once you start ignoring some rules, then they're all subject to being ignored.

[absolutvt69]

Anyone think it's a conflict of interest that Mitchell is a director of the Boston Red Sox and several prominent Yankee players are noted in the report? I don't watch or really even follow baseball so it's not like I'm a Red Sox (or Yankees) hater but I can definitely see where he'd be pressured to NOT name Red Sox players. It just seems odd that they'd pick someone who has a vested interest in the sport to head up the report.

[batfink]

I'm surprised Sammy Sosa isn't on the list.

[Granite Moose]

I'm surprised Sammy Sosa isn't on the list.

Well, bear in mind that this is admittedly a sampling of the league's abusers. If you weren't a Balco client, didn't use McNamee or Radomski, or didn't purchase your drugs through one of the named internet pharmacies, then you won't be listed in the report. So just because somebody wasn't named in the report, doesn't mean they weren't or aren't using.

And anyone who thinks Sosa wasn't juiced is insane. Just look at his body last year after he took a year off. He obviously stopped using, or using as heavily, and it clearly showed in the size of his frame.

[charlesx]

I'm surprised Sammy Sosa isn't on the list.

Actually, Sammy is on the list. I saw it on ESPN.com.

[Granite Moose]

Anyone think it's a conflict of interest that Mitchell is a director of the Boston Red Sox and several prominent Yankee players are noted in the report? I don't watch or really even follow baseball so it's not like I'm a Red Sox (or Yankees) hater but I can definitely see where he'd be pressured to NOT name Red Sox players. It just seems odd that they'd pick someone who has a vested interest in the sport to head up the report.

As I stated in my post above, it certainly doesn't mean that no Red Sox players were using PEDs. Just that they weren't using by way of the four main areas that Mitchell was able to investigate. At this point, I'm believing what Canseco, Caminiti and others have said before backtracking: namely that the vast majority of players are using some form of PED. It's really unfortunate and I hate that it besmirches the reputations of those not using, but until MLB and the Player's Union gets their acts together and get serious about testing and punishing the users, it's not going to get any better.

As far as Mitchell personally, I don't think he was biased in his reporting. However, I agree that it was not a wise choice to choose him while he is involved in a team. They should have either found somebody else or required him to absolve himself of the Red Sox organization before doing his investigation.

[Granite Moose]

Actually, Sammy is on the list. I saw it on ESPN.com.

He certainly could be as I haven't read the report in full. I'm just going by what has been listed on Fox Sports. His name isn't on their list.

[DocDoom187]

While I see where both of you are coming from, I don't quite agree with you there. Besides the whole personal ethics thing where you should play the game the right way or not play at all, you are basically endorsing any form of cheating. If the excuse is "Hey, everyone could do it if they want to", then anything is fair game.

"I corked my bat, but anyone could do it, so it's okay."
"I doctored the ball so it curves more than normal, but anyone could do it, so it's okay."
"I beaned the batter, but anyone could do it, so it's okay."

You can say I'm taking your comments out of context or to the extreme, but the rules are the rules and they're there for a reason. Once you start ignoring some rules, then they're all subject to being ignored.I said it's wrong and unethical. I don't support, but it doesn't ruin the game for me like it does for some.

[Granite Moose]

I said it's wrong and unethical. I don't support, but it doesn't ruin the game for me like it does for some.

Fair enough.

[malakim2099]

I hate the fact that baseball writers who vote for the Hall of Fame are saying they wont vote in people who allegedly used PED's. Why throw out all the records? If the pitcher and hitter are using them than it seems fair to me. I heard a report on ESPN that said there are "cleaners" to get your system free of traces of PED's that can work in 24-48 hours. The company who does the testing has to call the organization a week in advance in order to get proper papers and parking permits before they can carry out the testing. Sounds very random to me... Surprise!!! We'll be there in a week or so!

I don't think Roger Maris was using. And the only way Babe Ruth was injecting any form of bull steroids was if he ate the entire bull. :p

That's my beef with steroid use. It makes the baseball records of the past (which, to me, are the strength and nostalgia of the game) absolutely meaningless. Frankly, all the records from the past fifteen years, they should slam with a big old fat asterisk.

If that means people don't get in the Hall of Fame? Oh well, too bad. But one would argue that McGuire's performance in front of Congress was the main reason his HoF nod was so soundly rejected, moreso than the actual steroid use. One could imagine that if he tearfully admitted his shame in using roids, he probably would have gotten in... or at least gotten more than 24% voting in favor.

[maxwing]

You know, I was telling my wife about the report last night. --Call us naive, but we were both surprised by Clemens. --I can clearly remember a time when Clemens, (still a Red Sox) was mocking Canseco's head/eye twitch by imitating it with some guys in the dugout (all caught on camera) --I always thought it was some sort of steroids mockery at heart. Silly me.

[hail_eris]

You know, I was telling my wife about the report last night. --Call us naive, but we were both surprised by Clemens. --I can clearly remember a time when Clemens, (still a Red Sox) was mocking Canseco's head/eye twitch by imitating it with some guys in the dugout (all caught on camera) --I always thought it was some sort of steroids mockery at heart. Silly me.
Remember when Clemens flipped out and threw a hunk of busted bat at Mike Piazza back in the Mets-Yankees series? Yeah, that would have been the steroids talking.

And I recognize that drugs are a part of life in the NFL (much to Ricky Williams's chagrin, they police marijuana - a performance *harming* drug - pretty well). But you can actually spot the heavy juicers by their brief, injury-plagued, flame-out careers. Tony Mandarich and Brian Bosworth are perfect examples of this. Both of them were *huge* steroid users and both were supposed to revolutionize their respective positions. Instead, each of them washed out in a couple of years because, gee, when you stack 240 pounds of muscle onto a frame that was meant to hold 180 pounds of weight, it's gonna break.

[Frontman]

You know, I have to give credit where credit is due.

Frank Thomas stood up and did the right thing, giving as much information AND WAS WILLING TO BE TESTED FOR YEARS. Kudos to the Big Hurt, and it was the first time since he left that I actually was sad to see him not as a White Sox player.

Also, kudos to Greg Maddux, who also provided information to the investigation.

[Granite Moose]

Anybody else underwhelmed by Pettite's "apology"? I always considered him a stand-up kind of guy and a good representative of the game. And I'm a Red Sox fan, so that's saying a lot considering he's a Yankee. I expected the whole "I only used it once" argument, even the "I only did it to heal" argument (both of which are bunk), but to say "If what I did was an error in judgement on my part" is just so lame. Way to take some responsibility there, Andy.

I also love the "it wasn't against the rules of baseball" line. Maybe not, but it was illegal unless prescribed by a doctor, which I'm pretty sure it wasn't since your "trainer" provided it to you.

I'm with Frontman, it really makes you appreciate guys who have done it the right way. Of course, it's getting tougher and tougher to tell who that is. The unfortunate thing about testing is it's so easy for the player to mask his abuses. I read a report about Marion Jones after she finally came out and admitted her use and it said in well over 100 drug tests she never tested positive. And the Olympics are using better testing than MLB at this point. Just very depressing news for my favorite sport.

[maxwing]

http://38pitches.com/

Curt Shilling has a lot to say about all this (and I mean a lot). Seems to like Pettite's response, but really rips into Clemens.

[hail_eris]

I'm with Frontman, it really makes you appreciate guys who have done it the right way. Of course, it's getting tougher and tougher to tell who that is.
To this day, I'll never know why David Robinson isn't some kind of special non-partisan US government envoy on sports. Seriously. Just have the man stand there and look like a role model. Maybe say something about the importance of staying in school. And every time something like this happens, he'll just hold a press conference where he shakes his head in disappointment at the offenders - sort of like a father who caught his kids doing something stupid. Then he can show off his championship rings and his Olympic medals and his MVP trophy and he can say, "See? I did all this *and* I was in the Navy. Y'all just need to try harder." Maybe he could have Hank Aaron help him out. The two of them could shame the sports world into shaping up.

[Granite Moose]

To this day, I'll never know why David Robinson isn't some kind of special non-partisan US government envoy on sports. Seriously. Just have the man stand there and look like a role model. Maybe say something about the importance of staying in school. And every time something like this happens, he'll just hold a press conference where he shakes his head in disappointment at the offenders - sort of like a father who caught his kids doing something stupid. Then he can show off his championship rings and his Olympic medals and his MVP trophy and he can say, "See? I did all this *and* I was in the Navy. Y'all just need to try harder." Maybe he could have Hank Aaron help him out. The two of them could shame the sports world into shaping up.

The sad part is Robinson still doesn't get the respect he deserves for the quality of player he was. And I think the main reason is he wasn't one of the current "look at me" type of players who is constantly calling attention to himself. He just went out and did an excellent job on the court. No flash, but plenty of substance.

[hail_eris]

Not only that - he actually changed his play style to complement Tim Duncan, who had emerged as the Spurs' next franchise player. Robinson's per-game totals went down, but Duncan got all the encouragement and opportunity he could have asked for. Sports Illustrated acknowledged that when it gave both of them the Sportsman of the Year award. Had Robinson played in Europe, where team play is emphasized over highlight reel showboating (take a look at the past few Olympics to see which style wins in head-to-head competition), the man would be a legend.