View Full Version : How To Defeat This?
Hypersonic90
02/15/2008, 14:57
My friend will be playing this team for the next 300pts tourney:
KC Flash 150
Endurance 5
Nanobots 10
Armor Piercing 10
Protected 8
Fortitude 25
Damage Shield 10
218pts of Terror!
I played against him with a KC Green Lantern and few others and got killed in a 300pts game packed with 30 minutes of humiliation :cry:
Please help! :classic:
-Hypersonic90 :cool:
Some ideas:
1. packa pog to kill off in the last minutes of the game in case you can't kill him. you don't want him to be able to run the whole game and still win.
2. Pick an indoor map, no soaring will make your life easier
3. play some BFC's that will help you out, i suggest : damage control or cross winds (depending on your team)
4. pack lots of prob, your going to need a couple shots to hit that 20 D
5. A thwarter might be a good idea to get rid of fort
6. I would pack a couple of tk options, since its unrestricted obviously a couple mandriods to chuck your guys closer will help deal with him running.
thorin oakenshield
02/15/2008, 15:27
A couple of Avengers with thunderbolts to copy Mystics team ability and a wild card. Focus on destroy his objects and hide yours, so you screw his nanobot.
For example
Valor +protected
Scarlet witch +Thunderbolts
Mockingbird experienced +nanobots +thunderbolts
Mockingbird experienced +thunderbolts
Robin rookie
299. Four Mystics. Destroy the objects (or use the nanobot on Mockingbird) ,take out his support pieces and you won (forget about the flash, 9 attacks to take out Valor, or 3 attacks to take out each mockingbird or Scarlet means too many damages for Flash, and without objects it's doomed).
And don't forget the battlefield: damage control and, off course, Inertial Interference Field (218 points for a 0 damage piece is really funny, IMHO)
joh-marko
02/15/2008, 16:32
Thwart would be a good call. someone with mastermind and outwit would be your best choice. then outwith his HSS, tie him up and shoot the hell out of him.
Hoosier411
02/15/2008, 17:02
Two Jokers, 2 lockjaws, 2 armor piercing. Outwit HSS with 1 Joker, base with 2nd Joker. Watch KC Flash slowly die. Damage Control wipes away all oblects.
Hypersonic90
02/15/2008, 18:50
Thwart would be a good call. someone with mastermind and outwit would be your best choice. then outwith his HSS, tie him up and shoot the hell out of him.
I can't Outwit him hence Fortitude :cry:
-Hypersonic90 :cool:
joh-marko
02/15/2008, 19:01
if you have thwart then that will negate his fortitude. to get rid of the twart token on his fortitude(the token disables his use of the feat) he needs to take an action specifically to do this. as in when he clears, the next turn he can get rid of the twart token and perform no other non-free action.(he can still outwit). Joker would be great b/c even if flash outwits the jokers outwit, he still has the pre-requisite with his mastermind. but you do have to take an action in putting a thwart token on a feat. in other words, thwart his fortitude, he can then be outwitted. next turn, push to thwart his nanobots. now he cant heal. then go and poison him, outwitting his HSS, and follow him around with lockjaw. to heal or be un-outwittable, he has to take two turns in which he cant do anything else
that was not really clear. sorry
Contingency Plan, PC, and any number of Running Shot figures with a 10-11 a/v. Shooting at 7's takes him down quite a notch.
Drop Damage Control as your BFC. If you're playing a Keyword Theme team, then he can't even Ordinary Day you, and all the objects go bye-bye.
The Mystics idea is a good one as well. He'll be trading clicks with you all day til he dies.
How bout -
Jack of Hearts - 105
Exp Quicksilver - 62
SR Hawkeye - 56
IC U Wasp - 44
------Contingency Plan - 12
------Thunderbolts - 20
---299 Keyword - Avengers
BFC - Damage Control
He literally can't deal enough damage to win, and that's saying you don't hit the 20 d/v with the 11's and 12's you'll have to do it with. Heck, you can get 13 a/v's on the right clicks. Plus, you've got Jack's PC. It's keyworded too so you can ignore whatever his BFC is.
A single Joker with two Lockjaws would actually be pretty effective.
He moves, you base him with Joker + Lockjaws. If he pushes, great! You push a Lockjaw and base him again with Joker for some sweet poison lovin'! Because he's a flier, Joker can actually shoot at him and avoid Damage Shield as well.
If you're worried about Nanobots, you can always pack say an exp or r. Lockjaw with Nanobots himself and send him around eating objects. Or, you can just use vet Lockjaws and have them going around chomping objects as they move.
Darkseid Sr.
02/15/2008, 21:33
Malice with a barrier team would be nice team to field.
darklogos
02/15/2008, 22:04
Black Panther + pounce+ nanobots + alpha flight on an Avenger. 13 av when you pounce gives you a good advantage getting flash. Twhart is a must. Your only going to get one solid shot on Flash before the nanoboting starts. 2 Scarlet Witches, hawkeye, and some other outwitter. I recoamend r black mask.
Since R Black Mask is being brought up, remember that Mastermind is also a prerequisite for Contingency Plan, and R Black Mask has that in spades - it'll be especially useful for boosting your attack here, and I highly suggest you use it!
Some advice: Shoot the objects so Nanobots has nothing to eat. Endurance can bite back if used too much. Thwart is useful, but a little expensive.
Flash can't avoid taxied-poison(unless he pushes alot) or Mystics Damage.
Useful BFC:s
De-Feated = Nice when opponent loses protected :devious:
Inertia-Interference Field = Flash does no Damage with HSS even with armor piercing unless he uses option 2.
Damage Control = No objects for Flash
Inertia-Interference Field = Flash does no Damage with HSS even with armor piercing unless he uses option 2.
This will not work. Inertial Interference Field reduces Flash's damage by 2 to 0. Armor Piercing then kicks in and makes sure Flash's damage is not reduced below 1. Flash will still be doing 1 damage on a hit and run.
silent_shaDe
02/16/2008, 14:37
Some advice: Shoot the objects so Nanobots has nothing to eat. Endurance can bite back if used too much. Thwart is useful, but a little expensive.
Flash can't avoid taxied-poison(unless he pushes alot) or Mystics Damage.
Useful BFC:s
De-Feated = Nice when opponent loses protected :devious:
Inertia-Interference Field = Flash does no Damage with HSS even with armor piercing unless he uses option 2.
Damage Control = No objects for Flash
Against a figure like the Flash, Thwart is definitely not too expensive, especially if you go with the 2x Joker/Lockjaw plan. Thwart the Fortitude then Outwit HSS and soaring (or Outwit). It would ruin Flash's plans if you keep him in your range but don't sit right next to him. He'll have to push to run away to Nanobot... that's when you push the Lockjaws to smash a couple objects with the transporter attack on the way over to visit the Flash while he's pushed. He'll have to clear and eat Poison clicks... yeah, the rest is history. Of course this is all theoretical, but I see it working more often than not.
And Armor Piercing overrides Inertial Interference Field... IIF reduces the damage on Charge, RS, or HSS by 2, but AP prevents the damage dealt by the character from being reduced below 1, hence why an Impervious figure shouldn't even bother to roll if hit by an AP-equipped Flash, because they cannot reduce the damage dealt to 0.
EDIT: Beat to the punch on the AP, darn thinking too hard and writing novels.
Ok, thanks for clarifying.
This will not work. Inertial Interference Field reduces Flash's damage by 2 to 0. Armor Piercing then kicks in and makes sure Flash's damage is not reduced below 1. Flash will still be doing 1 damage on a hit and run.
unrestricted ey?
KC flash has one good stat going for him.. speed. That's by far the only strength of KC flash that is difficult to counter. KC flash has bad damage values which makes his high AV not as fearsome as it should be.
LOCKJAW is the ultimate flash chaser.. pack at least one.
choose from an assortment of kickass partners
V Iron Fist/Shang Chi/Bronze tiger - wildcard suicide squad(bronze tiger already has suicide squad..) to keep them on those killer first click. TK pogs near them then let the pog push to suicide to heal them up. Base KC flash every chance you get and force him to push push push.
Icons Joker - LAMP is the ultimate flash killer.. with thwart this becomes even more effective!
Spiderman with pounce/other pouncer with vendetta - I prefer the U Spiderman from armor wars for this job. You can even squeeze in pummel for an extra attack roll(only works if your standing still though). R Venom from critical mass can also kick butt with this combo.. Pouncing with 13 AV(+1 pounce, +1 vendetta, +1 perplex)
try this high AV pounce combo..
Iron Fist copies batenemies/sinister syn and bases KC flash
R Spiderman (sinister) pounces with vendeta copying batenemies/sin syn and gets iron fist's 12 AV. +1 AV from pounce and +1 AV from vendetta and you get a whopping 14 AV.
KC flash is absolutely easy to kill in 300 unrestricted if you're building your team specifically to counter him. Build a team specifically designed to beat KC flash and pack an ordinary day in case he brings out poor teamwork and ruins your fun.
all these posts of all sorts of ideas to bring KC flash down just goes to show how much effort people have put in trying to counter him since his glory days in restricted when nanobots was introduced.
silent_shaDe
02/16/2008, 18:26
Hmm, can't believe no one's thought of V Icons Supercheese. Gotta have Fortitude yes, but 251+25=276... you could throw ICWO on a pog and Supes and boost his attack value. Just smack the Flash silly. Grab objects that add to your attack too... he's Superman after all, so he's got that Super Strength. If you fail the KC roll you're still gonna blast him for 5, and Superman can certainly keep up with Flash on most maps; Flash has 2 more move to start and no range.
A good team that has options on killing his support too.
V Lockjaw (to smash objects while moving across the board) 38
E Icons Joker 88
+ AP 10
E Icons Batman 47
U Johnny Quick (smash objects while moving into position across map) 77
LOS Starter Pack Phantom Girl (nanobot teams' worst nightmare) 40
Solid team, Joker and LJ can run down flash poisoning him and taking pot shots. The Batman lends his team ability to Phantom while she carries him or JQ around eating objects. Johnny can throw tokens on the Batman due to his willpower while using CSA. Those three are your support killers. The Flash will fall, just remember to keep Joker in hindering as much as possible to stop from getting outwitted. Of course you could just run and kill his support and make him bring Flash to you so he can run to far away. Support will fall quickly to this team.
probabilitylongshot
02/21/2008, 12:31
A couple of Avengers with thunderbolts to copy Mystics team ability and a wild card. Focus on destroy his objects and hide yours, so you screw his nanobot.
For example
Valor +protected
Scarlet witch +Thunderbolts
Mockingbird experienced +nanobots +thunderbolts
Mockingbird experienced +thunderbolts
Robin rookie
299. Four Mystics. Destroy the objects (or use the nanobot on Mockingbird) ,take out his support pieces and you won (forget about the flash, 9 attacks to take out Valor, or 3 attacks to take out each mockingbird or Scarlet means too many damages for Flash, and without objects it's doomed).
And don't forget the battlefield: damage control and, off course, Inertial Interference Field (218 points for a 0 damage piece is really funny, IMHO)
I love that.
Widowmaker03
02/22/2008, 14:36
take a R Black Panther and put Thwart on him, Thwart Flashes Protected and then outwit his HSS
Take a V Hyperion and then smack him with a meteor maybe take destiny to prob the die roll of meteor so you get a 5 or 6 to do a massive 8 damage..... game over
silent_shaDe
02/22/2008, 14:51
take a R Black Panther and put Thwart on him, Thwart Flashes Protected and then outwit his HSS
Take a V Hyperion and then smack him with a meteor maybe take destiny to prob the die roll of meteor so you get a 5 or 6 to do a massive 8 damage..... game over
Won't work... you can't Prob a Meteorite roll. It is not being made by a character, so you can't Prob it. Thwart and Prob Control are going to be needed to take KC Flash down though.
Oh, and you need to Thwart Fortitude to Outwit him, not Protected ;)
It's a lot easier to bring him down with the abilities we have today than back in his heyday though... LAMP, Thwart, etc.
Mr. Cranberry
02/26/2008, 10:24
I played against this fig a bunch of times. Always found the most consistent way of dealing with him is by locking down the objects. Either by removing them with a BFC, destroying them, picking them up or just making sure he can't nano them.
This will at least keap him from pushing, a lot.
Though once I had my Aerial Baffler it was good times for all. MC that sucker & move to Soaring. Move in range of AB. Fall & take your damage. Repeat till KC Flash is no more.
I played against a similar KC Flash recently, and killed him within four actions with my Alpha Flight team. To paint a picture, I am a player who competes in probably the upper 20% of skill levels, and the person I was playing against plays in probaby the upper 5-10%, so it wasn't because I was playing an 8 year old or anything. It's not that hard to kill him. Just get in a good first hit and don't let up.
Rurouni KJS
02/26/2008, 18:13
De-Feated doesn't affect Protected.
adamkomar
02/26/2008, 19:40
De-Feated doesn't affect Protected.
Yes, it does. It's a feat and De-Feated causes feats to be ignored. I'm curious to know why you think otherwise.
silent_shaDe
02/26/2008, 22:03
At the beginning of each player's turn, that player must roll a d6. On a result of 1, feats assigned to characters controlled by that player are ignored until the beginning of the next player's turn.
That's why.
adamkomar
02/27/2008, 00:27
That's why.
At the beginning of each player's turn, that player must roll a d6. On a result of 1, feats assigned to characters controlled by that player are ignored until the beginning of the next player's turn.
I'm seeing it now and it's actually because of that bolded statement. Protected typically triggers on an opponent's turn and De-Feated only affects you on your own turn. If the character who is assigned Protected were dealt damage during your turn (after rolling a 1 for De-Feated) then Protected would be ignored. That's the only case when it would be.
Mr. Cranberry
02/27/2008, 00:47
I'm seeing it now and it's actually because of that bolded statement. Protected typically triggers on an opponent's turn and De-Feated only affects you on your own turn. If the character who is assigned Protected were dealt damage during your turn (after rolling a 1 for De-Feated) then Protected would be ignored. That's the only case when it would be.
Basically you'd need to Thwart the sucker.
Or just hit him with double Incap.
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