Your opinion regarding KC Superman?

[jdm61802]

I was fortunate enough to pull both chase Superman figures, and would like to win the Death of Supergirl event dial. With that being so, I naturally have looked at making a team with one of the Supermen.

I really think that KC was mispriced. I read somewhere on site that another clixer thinks the 3 and 8 were switched on the dial; therefore KC should be 283 points. I have asked that question to a few of the guys that I play regularly against, and they agree. After all, how many other 238 figures can do a possible 14 points of damage on their first clix?

My dilemma is, I really am not sure that I consider playing with the KC Superman fair. The only way I can think to describe my feelings is analogically. Imagine you are on a basketball team playing for the championship, You are very confident that you will win because you have an NBA all-star on your team, while the other team just has Joe from accounting. Would you really feel like you won? Would that win feel a little 'cheap'?

[darthfatty]

Well, if they made it to the championship game with Joe on the team...

Let's have a look at both pieces:

cr105 U Superman
Team: Hypertime
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 238
Keywords: Future, Justice League
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst101218510121759111759111748101648101641091641091739916399163KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Scorched Air: Superman can use Charge and Flurry.

(Attack) Kryptonian Strength: Superman can use Super Strength. Superman can carry 2 objects at the same time if they are both standard objects; he can only use one object per attack.

(Damage) Restoring Order: When the result of a successful attack roll made by Superman is doubles, the target is dealt damage normally, but is not knocked back. Instead, if the target has zero or one action token after the attack has been resolved, give the target an action token.


cr100 U Superman
Team: Superman Ally
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 317
Keywords: Justice Society, Metropolis, Reporter
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst10121851012185101119410112049101949101831010183119173129173129163KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) : Superman does not take pushing damage.

(Speed) This is a job for Superman!: Superman can use Charge. When Superman is not carrying an object or a character, do not halve his speed value when he uses Charge. Superman may not pick up objects or characters when using Charge.

(Damage) Leading the Attack: If Superman is adjacent to an opposing character at the beginning of your turn, he can make a close combat attack as a free action, but he can't attack that character again during that turn. If Superman causes a target opposing character to take damage, until the end of the turn all friendly characters attacking that target have their attack values modified by + 1 for each 100 points (or fraction thereof) of the target's point value.



Which would you have more fun with? I think they're both so totally gross. KC is an awesome brick killer, but E2 is an amazing 'other guy's entire team' killer, because he doesn't worry about silly little nuances like pushing damage and attacking while resting.

Top dial, KC hits twice, probably kills something at short range. Mid dial, he Hypersonic whacks and is hard to catch. End dial, he's dealing lots of short range damage again.

Top dial, E2 hits once at a long range, then hits again at the start of the turn. Mid dial, he hits at the beginning (with a dumpster) Hypersmacks somebody (with the dumpster) and parks next to any survivors (with the dumpster) tp do it all over again. No need to worry about pushing off that 20, either.

[Thrumble Funk]

I was fortunate enough to pull both chase Superman figures, and would like to win the Death of Supergirl event dial. With that being so, I naturally have looked at making a team with one of the Supermen.

I really think that KC was mispriced. I read somewhere on site that another clixer thinks the 3 and 8 were switched on the dial; therefore KC should be 283 points. I have asked that question to a few of the guys that I play regularly against, and they agree. After all, how many other 238 figures can do a possible 14 points of damage on their first clix?

My dilemma is, I really am not sure that I consider playing with the KC Superman fair. The only way I can think to describe my feelings is analogically. Imagine you are on a basketball team playing for the championship, You are very confident that you will win because you have an NBA all-star on your team, while the other team just has Joe from accounting. Would you really feel like you won? Would that win feel a little 'cheap'?

If you want to win the dial, by all means bust out KC Superman. You have him, so why not play him? Though I would say to pair him up with some decent feats/support, as the piece doesn't play itself as much as people would like to think.

[malakim2099]

If you want to win the dial, by all means bust out KC Superman. You have him, so why not play him? Though I would say to pair him up with some decent feats/support, as the piece doesn't play itself as much as people would like to think.

Agreed. You can't just plop him on the table, especially in 600, and go "Okay, I win!"

You better feat him up and give him the right support, otherwise you might get a rude awakening... same as with any other high point figure.

[tchipley]

My Opinion is completely biased because Superman is my favorite character. I think he is a great piece. I'm glad I got him and look forward to playing him.

1. Play him.
2. Enjoy playing him.
3. Crush some skulls with him.

That being said.
1. He's not the instant win you think he is. He can be beat if your opponent plays a strong game. Some teams he will outclass but that can happen no matter what team you play.

2. Some folks like the challenge of taking on the perceived "unbeatable." I pride myself on doing the impossible and making it look easy.

3. If you play him too much your opponent will eventually learn all his nuances and be able to beat him more quickly. You'll start seeing diminishing returns and you run the risk of mentally stagnating yourself by playing the same piece over and over.


A player should never feel ashamed for playing whatever piece they want to play. I would under no circumstances *ever* shame another player like that. It diminishes me as a person. I'll let my gameplay on the map do the talking for me.

[Batmandu]

With people recomending Feating him up, I think a timely reminder is in order -

There is a 5% cap on Feats in the Phase 3 games.

That means he can have Fortitude OR Protected. But not both.

That is going to hurt him...

[Prof. Aragorn]

Yeah, Superman is great, but he's meant to be played as a close combat figure in a ranged-dominated metagame.

He's by no means a horrible figure as he can dish out tremendous amounts of damage in a single action.

The thing is, he has no upfront move and attack in terms of range. Unless he goes first and has 2-3 tkers, chances are he isn't likely to get the first attack in unless it's up against a team that lacks the ability for the alpha strike.

Another consideration to keep in mind: The feat allowance is only 5%*. You can have fortitude, but not protected. Either Superman's prone to outwit but able to shrug off the first attack, or he can take the damage, but a big attack that gets through is going to hurt him.

Darkseid stands a reasonable chance of beating him. In order to beat Darkseid, you need ranged and move and attack for range such as Hal Jordan Green Lantern. In order to beat the ranged move and attackers, you need stealthers/ranged deterers like Nightwing, Robin, and Batman. To beat the stealthers you need a tough close combat piece like KC Superman or see-through stealth like Super Girl/Lois Lane.

Rock, meet paper. Paper, scissors. Scissors, rock.

*For weeks 9-11 of course. The 400's and 500's coming up he's sure to be tough to beat with fortitude, repulsor shield, and protected, but his backup is even more minimized as he pretty much only has 100-200 points of support against 400-500 point teams such as Hal Jordan plus stealth shield or Darkseid+outsiders+28 points extra support. Of course, your concern is for Supergirl Event Dial - quite different from Wally West, Donna Troy, Garth, or Roy Harper, Jr. which is why I specified weeks 9-11.

[sol]

If you decide to play the Kingdom Come Superman, you shouldn't feel 'cheap' just because you played him. 283 or 238, honestly, he's more hype than substance at either point total.

He starts with an 18 defense, but then again, so does damn near everybody else in Crisis, so no one will have to build specifically to counter that. And he doesn't spike defensively, so every time he gets hit, he's successively easier to hit. If you play him, look forward to the counter to his Fortitude that you pretty much HAVE to play if you feild him being Thwart, possibly on up to two Outwit figures. Considering the 5% Feat total restriction for that event, i'd bank on at least one.

He will need TK to really make use of his Charge/Flurry, and again, an army with Thwart has the points to be an army with Protected. Probably on the Thwart guy. A strong contender for any team that week would be Darkseid with Thwart, Protected, a couple probs and a couple Outsiders to hit for Penetrating Damage with no modifications.

You could hit Darkseid and he can wait until he fails an Impervious roll to trigger Protected. If he doesn't have to give you protected or makes even one Impervious roll, KC Superman (or any Superman) is probably going to be in severe pain on the following turn. Darkseid might have brought along some OotS Batmen with him from time displaced Omega Effect beams, which could make short work of said Superman...leaving whatever else you have to fight with to beat a whole team ready to Die for Darkseid....

This is just the one scenario I came up with off the top of my head. I could think of far more, but saying you have the NBA star player on your team in KC Superman in my opinion is far from accurate.

[Artie Deco]

I really think that KC was mispriced. I read somewhere on site that another clixer thinks the 3 and 8 were switched on the dial; therefore KC should be 283 points.
Hmmm.... VERY interesting. Because if KC Superman was 283 points, and since E-2 Superman is 317 points, if the two of them were on a team together they'd be exactly 600 points ....


Don't worry about playing him in the tournament. Odds are, someone else is going to be playing him too. Besides, if you want an analogy, does the fact that the Bulls had Michael Jordan on their team mean they didn't really deserve 6 NBA championships?

[jdm61802]

I was considering a Darkseid / KC Superman team. With KC Superman's relatively low cost, that leaves plenty of room for support pieces to make this team even nastier. Which is why I ask the question, is KC Superman fair to play.

Sure, I know if you pull it, you should get to play it. But again, does he cheapen the win?

[hair10]

Isn't this for week 6? The 600 point event?

Why not play both? :laugh: