Some more Anti-Monitor questions :/

[W.I.T]

OK, I bought mine on release day, and I have been playing him almost every day since, trying him out against different teams, and at different power levels.

Anyway, since he is a non-flier, I have a few questions:

1) Can he make ranged attacks against non-adjacent figures if he is based?

2) Can he make ranged attacks against adjacent non-fliers?

Any help appreciated (and reped ;))

Cheers.

[darkjacen]

Yes he can make attacks against other non-adjacent figures when based. It's part and parcel of him being a colossal figure!;)

It's in the Anti-Monitor Rules, under the topic of Attacking:

The Anti-Monitor can make a ranged combat attack against any character in range, even if that character is in an adjacent square.

Unless i've misunderstood it, that is.:p

[W.I.T]

Yes he can make attacks against other non-adjacent figures when based. It's part and parcel of him being a colossal figure!;)

It's in the Anti-Monitor Rules, under the topic of Attacking:



Unless i've misunderstood it, that is.:p

That's what I thought, and that's how I played him :)

Thanks, and Rep to you :)

[bisquit]

Yes he can make attacks against other non-adjacent figures when based. It's part and parcel of him being a colossal figure!;)

It's in the Anti-Monitor Rules, under the topic of Attacking:



Unless i've misunderstood it, that is.:p

From Starro's Rules Insert:

Starro
can make a ranged combat attack against characters with which it is not adjacent even when Starro is adjacent to another character.

Starro came with this clarification. I'm not sure that the AM rules sheet makes it clear that he can attack non-adjacent figures when based. The only thing it makes clear is that he can use ranged attacks on figures that are adjacent to him. If WK intended for AM to be able to attack non-adjacent figures when based, they would have been better off to word it as they did with Starro.

[darkjacen]

From Starro's Rules Insert:
I'm not sure that the AM rules sheet makes it clear that he can attack non-adjacent figures when based. The only thing it makes clear is that he can use ranged attacks on figures that are adjacent to him. If WK intended for AM to be able to attack non-adjacent figures when based, they would have been better off to word it as they did with Starro.

Yeah, i've been going over the rules insert and i'm seeing more and more problems with it. I hope that they fix this in the next errata. I mean there isn't even a part that says Anti-Monitor automatically breaks away? He has to roll a break away on his clicks without phasing...wow.

But regarding the Attacking of characters, you can also understand it as ...even if that character is in an adjacent square... as an exception. I agree with you though that it should be clarified further.
The more i read the insert, the more i'm starting to think that this was a rushed product...:ermm:

[Jarimy123]

You can't base any collosal fig so I don't see why it would be different with AM, it wouldn't make any sense. Like AM is going to sit there in combat with a pog, while superman is shooting him from off in the distance.

[snarfery]

Haha, poor antimonitor taken out by pogs.

[ZZZ]

Maybe it will be in the upcoming FF Starter rules that colossals do not need to roll break away and so they were just ahead of themselves and didn't include it...

[bisquit]

Just as a frame of reference, I included the rules from most of the other colossals. The only ones worded like the AM are original Galactus, Phoenix, and the Advanced Sentinel. All other colossals (including the original Sentinel) specifically say that they can attack non-adjacent figures even when based by opposing characters.

I think that there should be some clarification as to the intention of the AM rules. It would also be nice if the wording was consistent in general, so as to avoid confusion.

From Galactus Eater of Worlds Rules Insert:
Galactus can make a ranged combat attackagainst characters with which he is not djacent even when Galactus is adjacent to another character.

From the Spectre Rules Insert:
The Spectre may make a ranged combat attack against characters with
which it is not adjacent even when The Spectre is adjacent to another character.

Fin Fang Foom Rules Insert:
Fin Fang Foom can make a ranged combat attack against characters
with which he is not adjacent even when Fin Fang Foom is adjacent to another character.

From Galactus 2004 Rules:

Galactus has 22 adjacent squares. It can attack and be attacked through any of them. Galactus can make a ranged combat attack against any character in its range, even if that character is in an adjacent square.
Characters do not block line of fi re to or from Galactus. Galactus blocks line of fire to other characters.
Galactus can attack and be attacked by characters that are grounded, on
elevated terrain, or soaring. Galactus does not halve its range value when
targeting soaring characters with ranged combat attacks.
Galactus is not affected by knockback.
Galactus cannot capture or be captured.

From Original Sentinel:
A big figure Sentinel can make a ranged combat attack against any character in range, even if enemy characters are in an adjacent square.

From Advanced Sentinel Rules:
Colossal figures can make ranged combat attacks when adjacent to
opposing characters.

An Advanced Sentinel can make a ranged combat attack against any character in range.

Have to go play now. I'll be back later to see what you guys think.

[Mr.x_20xx]

I understand what's going on here. For AM, GoG Galctus, and Old/New Sentinal it doesn't specify that you may make ranged attacks at other figures when based. This is indeed troublesome, though if I recall it says that they follow standard collasal rules as well as specific ones:

Colossal Characters
A character with the damage symbol is a colossal character. Colossal characters are exceptionally big, and they may have special rules that are provided with the character.
Colossal characters do not halve their range values when attacking soaring characters.
All colossal characters block lines of fire to other characters. Colossal characters ignore the effects of hindering, elevated, and outdoor blocking terrain on movement. Colossal characters can’t be moved by Telekinesis. Colossal characters may make ranged combat attacks when adjacent to opposing characters.

Which unfotunatly is the same hazy text... and unfortunatly non of the errata or FAQs clearify this.Oh, well I always assumed they could, I don't see why not, as all the other can. I chalk it up to being sloppy.

[bisquit]

Just got back from weekend travels, and I'm trying to catch up on what's been going on lately. I know this might be beating a dead horse, but I just found this post from Harpua on the WK boards:

Originally Posted by Kraxis34
Here comes my questions:

1) Can A-M make a ranged attack against a non-adjacent opposing figure while he is adjacent to another opposing figure?

Response from Harpua:

He cannot. As a boot symbol, he would lose the ability to make ranged attacks when based by an opposing non-flier. That line ensures that he still can, but it does not override the normal restriction on firing out of adjacency.


I have to say that this makes me feel a little better to see that he interpreted things the same way.

[darkjacen]

Just got back from weekend travels, and I'm trying to catch up on what's been going on lately. I know this might be beating a dead horse, but I just found this post from Harpua on the WK boards:

Originally Posted by Kraxis34
Here comes my questions:

1) Can A-M make a ranged attack against a non-adjacent opposing figure while he is adjacent to another opposing figure?

Response from Harpua:

He cannot. As a boot symbol, he would lose the ability to make ranged attacks when based by an opposing non-flier. That line ensures that he still can, but it does not override the normal restriction on firing out of adjacency.


I have to say that this makes me feel a little better to see that he interpreted things the same way.

But he's still a colossal.:rolleyes: The rules for colossals, which you've also posted says the ff:Colossal characters may make ranged combat attacks when adjacent to opposing characters.

I'd understand for the run-of-the-mill figures that have a boot speed symbol can't make ranged when based by another boot speed character. But for a colossal not to be able to? That's just absurd.:confused: If that will truly be the official rulings for this particular colossal, then someone really messed up.:tired:Which would again make it more evident that this was a rushed product by WK that has to be updated or clarified in the next errata.

[Retrovector]

I personally think, since this AM is mass marketed that he's going to be a "welfare" version of a colossal so everyone can't be as amazingly strong as Starro or Galactus. But I bet teh Sinestro AM will be as strong as other colossals. That said this current AM is pretty gimp ;)

Can't see stealth, can't shoot others while being adjacent. Luckily he can make ranged combat w/ the character he's adjacent too. No free breaks, so he ties up easily.

Who knows, maybe they'll allow him to have feat cards ;)

Edit: Infact, I don't see anything in his special rules, or colossal rules, or errata where it says AM can't use feats.

[Raiserb1ade]

I have a few quick Auntie-EM questions.

1. Can AM see over barrier tokens?

2. Can AM destroy barrier tokens by walking over them?

[bisquit]

I have a few quick Auntie-EM questions.

1. Can AM see over barrier tokens?

AM can't ignore grounded blocking terrain (barrier) if he is grounded or elevated and is making a ranged attack against a grounded character. He may ignore grounded blocking terrain (or grounded barrier tokens) when drawing a LoF to another elevated character, because he is a colossal and exists at the level of elevated terrain. This would also appy if he were actually on elevated terrain. He would not be able to ignore elevated blocking terrain when drawing LoF to another elevated character. If this is confusing, or more details on this sort of thing, do a search for grounded blocking terrain and LoF. Hope that helped.

2. Can AM destroy barrier tokens by walking over them?

Not that I know of. His rules insert only mentions objects.



Edit: made some changes, highlighted things

[Retrovector]

I have a few quick Auntie-EM questions.

1. Can AM see over barrier tokens?

2. Can AM destroy barrier tokens by walking over them?

1. No, barrier is considered blocking terrain

2. No, that is only object tokens.

[bisquit]

Posted today by nbperp:

While I am still waiting for a list of questions to be answered, I had an opportunity to discuss this with GD last night.

Anti-Monitor can shoot out of adjacency. That is what the line is intended to say. There will be clarification in the next set of documents to make it more clear that is what is meant.

I thought it might be nice to post the final word on this issue. Thanks to everyone who addressed both sides of the issue.